phf: i'm not sure i get it. perhaps the idea is that the plot is constructed from conclusions backwards, rather than as a chain of causes and effects resulting in an outcome, then conclusion. so the setup is restricted by what actions hero must perform or what other kind of allegory
mircea_popescu: no. you can't fly by your breaches, can you ? nor can you "make yourself" a boyar. nor can koschei DO things.
mircea_popescu: in the world in which he lives, you ARE things ; you don't DO things.
mircea_popescu: which is why eg. the notion of "consent" is entirely baffling. what do you mean, ivan should ask natasha. ask her WHAT THE FUCK ?!?! whether she IS a woman ? he can damn well see that ?
mircea_popescu: the whole story is decided at the onset - ARE you hero mc heroson ? yes ? then you go kill koschei. no ? then you don't. what do you mean "do what he did" ffs.
phf: aah
mircea_popescu: kinda what "traditional society" actually means, if the term is used properly. and why derpage eg in the us re "traditional marriage" is so hysterical. really, TRADITIONAL ? mmmkay.
mircea_popescu: just because it's your daddy's modern dun make it traditional.
phf: "this is how things are around here parts", except nobody ever said that except in movies or when things are no longer are
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: it's ever only used as a cheap mocking post, see. gotta frame the modern story in some sort of context,
mircea_popescu: but it's never more than context ; not in modern stories at any rate.
mircea_popescu: it is however hermeneutics 101, the pons asinorum of the scholarly disciplines.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman for some reason it decided i'm anonymous lol.
phf: huh, it's unknowable, so either presented as a joke, or as complete hostile aliennes. sort of texas chainsaw massacre kind of stuff. russian equivalent would be narratives about "деревня"
phf: forest used to be where the ancestors came from and that where demons and ghouls are. now ancestors come from tradition and that's where wilderness is
mircea_popescu: aha.
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: you and a few others :P
mircea_popescu: it's also the deep reason why reversion to feudalism / end of modernism is entirely unavoidable. the deep reason "dark ages" guys did what they did isn't them being "stupid", it's the absence of the modernist interface. when the world of possibilities is endless and the only possible trail is offered by strong identity, be it of the chivalric or v/wot type, society works a certain way.
mircea_popescu: in order for the modernist delusion to work, some equivalence clases are prerequsite, which is why all modern states are socialisms. if differences matter, "modern democracy" is impossible.
asciilifeform: https://support.circle.com/hc/en-us/articles/217972003 << meanwhile another scamola exchange bites it
mircea_popescu: and which is why traditionalist societies guilty pleasure is genealogy, as in heraldics or vtronics ; whereas modernist societies guilty pleasure is "self improvement" as in miracle diets and college degrees. (no, the two aren't different, the notion that you will BECOME at the college is entirely like the notion that you'll go to heaven through not cursing.)
ben_vulpes: wasn't there a qntra on this, asciilifeform ?
asciilifeform: possibly ?
asciilifeform goes, looks
shinohai: Indeed there is
ben_vulpes: dear old kakobrekla will never admit to cribbing from qntra
shinohai: These exchanges are like the hydra, 2 more will pop up in its wake.
phf: hmm
phf: not sure how reversion follows though. it's easy to run away into the forest, because it's completely meaningless. but running away into tradition is equivalent to death (per older thread). "destruction of known universe"
phf: oh unless you mean it in a sense that it's inevitable with you or without you
BingoBoingo: In other google suck: If you try searching for 2" drive sockets and breaker bars it returns ocean of wimpy 1/2" drive
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8BD5120D4A95C75642CBB2D873E33FBC3C68B0FA4C2E02A493BC34DAEFE2664F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2722...4181 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EEE6B1521D93CE1983B98DAC3DDEC4D3B74D2316105ADF8BE6E9F18555E34512 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1981...5981 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server200.serverflex.de. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/65F341354F31545C93BE093F7D772392E757E7F7379E2F1A43817607FBE671AF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1716...9219 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ns1.a-webhosting.cz. CZ)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A2C8FC5503BFD645E3509CCC14724B450F5A76F4BD4329A307F76444312ABDE0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1543...2509 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/29BAAA083699C2ABCFD0ED196201367CBA08B7AB03B3DF11757F8106ED70433B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1578...2667 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (spec2.smu.ca. CA NS)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/12410CE4CD32008ABBD7B02A78C2E2EFB40A518866B52C2DFC884623E0DC5EA3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2613...1989 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip-217-117-28-54.bnk.lt. LT)
thestringpuller: !~later tell cazalla I see you playing pokemon moon!
jhvh1: thestringpuller: The operation succeeded.
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579485 << to what is this regarding?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 00:33 ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: you and a few others :P
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/#selection-279.0-284.0
danielpbarron: oh, re: wotpaste and lynx? yeah i recently discovered that most non-tmsr sites won't even load on a "sane" computer (for example a gentoo with asciilifeform's crib sheet applied)
ben_vulpes: i eventually gave up on making the mimisbrunnr block renditions look acceptable in lynx
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579511 << plox to elaborate danielpbarron☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 02:08 danielpbarron: oh, re: wotpaste and lynx? yeah i recently discovered that most non-tmsr sites won't even load on a "sane" computer (for example a gentoo with asciilifeform's crib sheet applied)
shinohai: I use wotpaste w/out browser, thanks to ben_vulpes help a few weeks back
asciilifeform: which browsers didja try
asciilifeform: and what means 'won't even load' ?
danielpbarron: i don't even care what it looks like, at least it got served. these other sites give an error in lieu of the requested page, something about unsupported browser
asciilifeform: tried anything that wasn't lynx...?
asciilifeform: ... tried lynx with fudged useragent?
danielpbarron: come to think of it, that probablem happened with openbsd on a powerpc using firefox
danielpbarron: i don't think i even have a browser on this gentoo one, besides lynx
danielpbarron: can't emerge chromium because of the masked packages
asciilifeform: post the barf plox
danielpbarron: the emerge barf?
ben_vulpes: spam done with, pls to forgive
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: aha
danielpbarron: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aCKhB/?raw
asciilifeform: ick
asciilifeform: iirc something quite similar happened when i tried.
asciilifeform: seems like if we want a graphical wwwtron -- will have to 'trb' one.
asciilifeform: perhaps good project for danielpbarron .
asciilifeform: chromium is prolly the only logical feedstock for such an attempt. afaik.
asciilifeform: (single-threaded wwwtrons with 'fire' in the name can go and die in a fire, yesterday, and it won't be soon enough)
mircea_popescu: o look, mimi's brunnr!
danielpbarron: doubtful. I wouldn't know where to start, nor do i care to have one. whatever is worth reading should work in lynx, and the rest works on my phone
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: ah if you don't need such a thing - then your gentoo is ready for battlefield, neh
danielpbarron: yeah i'm happy with it
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: certainly ain't her brudder
danielpbarron: runs eulora perfectly
asciilifeform: neato
danielpbarron: ditto, trb
mircea_popescu: phf there's a who and a what. traditional societies put the what in an equivalency ring and discern the who ; modernist societies put the who in an equivalency ring and discern the what.
asciilifeform: trb is static and will run on literally any linux
mircea_popescu: let's look at it through the example of the married woman.
mircea_popescu: married woman in belgium, a modernist society, expects to fuck her husband, or another man (ie, the who is indifferent) PROVIDED they woo her properly. the what is discerning, and "i fucked him because he bought me roses just like you did 20 years ago you pig" is perfectly "rational".
mircea_popescu: married woman in brunei, a traditionalist society, expects to be fucked, in the way which fucking goes (ie, indifferent), by her husband but not by another man. and if her husband fucks with a stick, or with electrified vaginal pears, it's none of her business ; much like the belgian woman might fuck another woman, or a cat or a bit of plastic, just as long as it DOES the right thing - the brunei woman will fuck in whichever
mircea_popescu: manner as long as it IS the right thing.
mircea_popescu: excess is actually repressed : for instance the husband that fails to what correctly in belgium goes to jail ; much like the lover that fails to who correctly in brunei.
mircea_popescu: in belgium "but i am her husband" is no defense, but on the contrary, scandalous ; and in brunei "but i fucked her right" is no defense, but on the contrary, scandalous.
mircea_popescu: the major problem of contemporaneous, post-modern, post-structuralist whatever world is that the practical equivalency class is the what, not the who. such as for instance : as long as the product is a web app, you know what shit it will be and all you care about is WHO. which is why we have the entire who structure of code inheritance, much to the chagrin of the "oh noes, wasn't invented here syndrome" belated modernists.
mircea_popescu: anyone can make "a prediction" (what=equivalent) but it really matters WHO makes it, as per the pro idiotas article.
mircea_popescu: and so on.
mircea_popescu: so it's not a matter of reversal. it's a matter that the practical structures of reality favour a certain equivalency class over the other.
BingoBoingo: In other real estate for alf tastes http://commercial.century21.com/listing/1308-main-carbondale-il-62901-REN026859036
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if i had 600k i'd buy a mig ffs
asciilifeform: beats the shit out of old roach motel or what is that.
BingoBoingo: Not sure what that was exactly. Kinda looks like "shopping center" being shopped as warehouse
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fwiw circle has been going out of business for 3 years now.
asciilifeform: i confess! that i had only the foggiest notion of what it was
asciilifeform: assumed 'coinbase/stamp/etc tentacle'
mircea_popescu: nah, more like square.
asciilifeform: sooo a bitpay..?
mircea_popescu: nah, an app.
mircea_popescu: the airbnb scammers originally "promoted" it by plastering "handmade comics/ezine" on cheap whitelabel cereal boxes.
mircea_popescu: you gotta understand how the fiat "creative" scam works. like this : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579011☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 14:17 mircea_popescu: anyway, the way "tech" works in the us aka sv is very simply : get the "hipster ass rorbros" on the wagon, then sell them out later for mass market.
mircea_popescu: these dudes tried to "leverage" whatever they could think of to "achieve network effects" and bla bla.
mircea_popescu: usually, it doesn't work. it is certainly a thinking man's coming of age, when he finally develops a skin : that keeps this sort of bacteria at bay, and that still allows copulation with the other humans.
mircea_popescu: old people are notoriously bad at this, go through the world a living zoological museum, collection of numerous fungi and no copulation.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579497 << you think as what you are. to first generation in shoes country girl, going back to the village so all the other girls could feel equal to her was "death" in exactly the same sense, and she'd suck a truck through a cocktail straw to avoid it. here she is : http://trilema.com/2011/deci-de-revelion-acum-niste-ani/☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 00:55 phf: not sure how reversion follows though. it's easy to run away into the forest, because it's completely meaningless. but running away into tradition is equivalent to death (per older thread). "destruction of known universe"
asciilifeform: http://danluu.com/sounds-easy << related (warning! entomologists only!) lul.
mircea_popescu: so in short, i don't even mean that it's inevitable with you or without you. it's inevitable with or without your mental constructs. the body will follow.
mircea_popescu: what, you think people fought in us civil war without their scruples ? the body went ; the scruples - nobody asked anything.
mircea_popescu: ~everyone involved in ww2 thought ww2 is a stupid idea, for that matter. all the better for them!
asciilifeform: folx who get set on fire probably also do not particularly think much of the joys of being on fire...
mircea_popescu: in short, your at ease notion of you and the actual perceptible, historical fact of you are very tenuously bridged, and that bridge is especially dependent on the "at ease" part.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from whence comes the notion tha tthey are bridged ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform certainly. but the fact is that most ww2 combatants did not fight at home ; or in their neighbourhood ; or even city. except perhaps it could be argued for the fins.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from a comfortable life.
asciilifeform: even laziest, most 'comfortable' folx, still understand that the next day piano could fall, bus -- run over, etc. neh ?
asciilifeform: and that it'll have 0 to do with 'self-concept' they had
mircea_popescu: this is not the matter. most girls understand, somewhere deep down, that if i come in and grab them by the hair and drag them to their cell they will at the very least love the child they conceive, and eventually learn to live the cell.
mircea_popescu: just, this knowledge of the cunt is amply repressed in most cases.
mircea_popescu: to some degree "society" needs them to for its definition of them to be fulfilled ; to a larger degree the currently fashionable notions of self require them to as well. but anyway - people will lvie everywhere, and historically have.
mircea_popescu: still, the effects are often funny - you can get most 15 yos to agree that they'll "never turn out like their mothers" or "die before they're old" or such manifestations of the subjective sentiment of bridging.
asciilifeform: you could probably get typical idiot cow to agree that 4 == 5 on odd tuesdays, without breaking a sweat
mircea_popescu: even non-idiots spend relatively little time figuring out "improductive" things of this sort.
mircea_popescu: and then end up surprised by the nobody could have predicted and write nobel-prize literature about it.
mircea_popescu: (no, it's not just hussein bahamas. the whole thing is predicated on suckage, exactly the same ~sort~ of suckage.)
asciilifeform: unrelatedly,
asciilifeform: anybody here familiar with mosis ( https://www.mosis.com ) ? used it ? knows anyone who has ? etc
asciilifeform: i could've sworn we had a thread
asciilifeform: ( hm, looks like here it was, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-14#1274013 )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-09-14 17:54 trinque: mosis.com was the one I found somebody talking about getting a run done for a few k
BingoBoingo: Perhaps more to alf taste, GIANT CONCRETE TANKS! http://commercial.century21.com/listing/1051-wall-street-carbondale-il-62901-REN025580641
asciilifeform: 'cmp', the other co. linked from trinque's old link, has actual PRICES!111 -- http://cmp.imag.fr/IMG/pdf/cmp_prices_schedule_sept-16.pdf
asciilifeform floored
mircea_popescu: pretty cool eh!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wai so cheap
asciilifeform: tanstaafl!!!
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Jaggx/?raw=true ( earlier link )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Prolly a bitch to insure with the Giant concrete tanks being attractive nuissance and all. Also demo cost to other buyers would likely suck
asciilifeform: 'CMP handles about 40 different design kits (corresponding to different technologies and different CAD tools), which are sent to customers upon signature of a Confidentiality and License Agreement.' << derpderp
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579521 << i must say "probablem" is actually remarkably act for the sort of problems one encounters in the post-determinist software world.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 02:13 danielpbarron: come to think of it, that probablem happened with openbsd on a powerpc using firefox
mircea_popescu: apt*
mircea_popescu: karatkievich, that's a new one.
asciilifeform: sure is
asciilifeform: and afaik 1st new box since i tuned in
asciilifeform: before this, they only died
mircea_popescu: apparently the devil pact cleared.
mircea_popescu: "What would Lucene at Google’s size look like? If we do a naive back of the envelope calculation on what it would take to index a significant fraction of the internet (often estimated to be 1 trillion (T) or 10T documents), we might expect a 1T document index to cost something like $10B1. That’s not a feasible startup, so let’s say that instead of trying to index 1T documents, we want to maintain an artisanal search ind
mircea_popescu: ex of 1B documents. Then our cost comes down to $12M/yr." << this danluu piece is the most idiotic thing i read all day. what the fuck has "cloud" done to these people that they think a 1bn index cost A MILLION A MONTH holy shit.
asciilifeform: hey it came with warning!1111
mircea_popescu: insanity.
mircea_popescu: he also manages to argue both ends at the same time - we apparently both underestimate how many low hanging fruit there are AND at the same time just how high these low hanging fruit actually come. hurr.
mircea_popescu: and after all that engineering optimization companies care bla bla song and dance ? "So there are definitely more than ten million unique terms on the entire internet! In fact, there’s a website out there that has all primes under one trillion. I believe there are something like thirty-seven billion of those. If that website falls into one shard of our index, we’d expect to see more than thirty-seven billion terms in a si
mircea_popescu: ngle shard ; that’s more than most people guess we’ll see on the entire internet, and that’s just in one shard that happens to contain one somewhat pathological site."
mircea_popescu: really fucker, your engineers that pay for themselves by the score haven't figured out that YOU DO NOT INDEX TERMS LONGER THAN ABOUT A DOZEN CHARACTERS ?
mircea_popescu: holy shit, people can barely type out their name without reaching for a napkin to clear the drool, i'm going to index the 5 billionth prime number as such.
mircea_popescu: because i run a farm for idiot us-born capons in haskell on cloud and pay 12mn/year for a 1bn items index.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker!
mircea_popescu: verbatim from article : "And others type in what they think of as normal queries for their day-to-day work even if they seem weird to you (e.g., a biologist might query for GTGACCTTGGGCAAGTTACTTAACCTCTCTGTGCCTCAGTTTCCTCATCTGTAAAATGGGGATAATA)." here's that search : https://archive.is/oB6U3
mircea_popescu: apparently... a BIOLOGIST might NOT search for that ; an imbecile pretending to be a computer engineer however would.
mircea_popescu: this is an eminent case of "Yes, yes, I know how it's doublespoken - socialism is not about them making their own lives better. It's all about making "other people's lives" better. Because it's so selfless and "good" and - most importantly! - because it can't be measured. If they dedicated themselves to making their own lives better, there'd be a definitive authority to say when they failed. But if they instead pretend to be
mircea_popescu: all about making "other people's" lives better - well! Should anyone claim they failed they can just change the "other people", can't they! The socialist electorate, always and everywhere ein anderes. That enchanted, imaginary public which supports you (from a safe distance) in your quest as you destroy the little you actually have."
mircea_popescu: he's solved the problems other people might have, on the basis of what he imagines a biologist might do, which is so pointedly not what any biologist ever does you can scarcely begin to wonder what fucking highschool the author frequented, because his mental furniture seems to have diverged from the common trunk somewhere around the age of NEGATIVE THIRTEEN,
mircea_popescu: and all this at a cost to me of 12mn a year for NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker i want to kill this idiot.
mircea_popescu: !!rate dan luu -10 unrecoverable imbecile. this rating carries to first order descendants - if you're the offspring of dan luu please kill yourself.
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/bitcoin-price-outlook-magenta-possible-in-2017/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Price Outlook: Magenta Possible In 2017
mircea_popescu: is magenta a large qty of price ?
mircea_popescu: so according to the dude over at nullspace.io, bing has "20% of market share" according to some apparently public available sources. let's add to that : out of the ~0.9 %~ of trilema traffic that came from a search engine so far this year, 127,291 came from google and 2,666 came from bing.
mircea_popescu: that... doesn't sound to me like 20%. more like 2%.
mircea_popescu: but as the man points out - mostr of that reach comes from windows, ie and "strategic partners" a la http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-you-dont-know-or-understand-about-facebook-everything/
mircea_popescu: which leads us to a new heuristic : the closer the search engine mix on your site is to bing having 20%, the more drool your "userbase" contributes to their immediate environment on a daily basis.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> is magenta a large qty of price ? << It is a bright kinda fruity color of price
mircea_popescu: gaiety prevails!
BingoBoingo: 4srs
mircea_popescu: http://nickcraver.com/blog/2016/03/29/stack-overflow-the-hardware-2016-edition/ << mildly interesting, mostly because unlike ~everyone else in the web game nick carver is literate.
mircea_popescu: but it DOES turn out that the upper range of stack exchange hardware is ~50% more ram than phuctor. so... nyah.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i read the 'google' link, could think of only http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575868 , unique kunstkammer specimen☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-01 19:16 mircea_popescu: "mice were found in germany which is a country that once invaded the soviet union where lenin introduced electricity which goes through tubes in which tubes today in england most mices live." "OH NOW IT ALL FALLS INTO PLACE!!!"
asciilifeform: hence posted. somewhere there live such people as the author!! what goes on in their heads? 'i am an acorn!!'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja notice for what he uses '~50% more ram than phuctor' ?
asciilifeform: 'VM Servers (VMWare, Currently)'
asciilifeform: ahahah yes , 'let's run 10,001 instances of shitlinux!'
asciilifeform: on one box!
asciilifeform: because mother dropped us when we were small
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8BD5120D4A95C75642CBB2D873E33FBC3C68B0FA4C2E02A493BC34DAEFE2664F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1621...7127 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EEE6B1521D93CE1983B98DAC3DDEC4D3B74D2316105ADF8BE6E9F18555E34512 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1365...6699 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server200.serverflex.de. DE)
asciilifeform: http://server200.serverflex.de/user/index.php << lel
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha! i said!
mircea_popescu: or i guess i didn';t say. but i meant to say!
asciilifeform: brain-melting.
mircea_popescu: i'd kinda like to see all these "engineers" (who, as per some random douche working for microsoft, can not be found because most "relevancy engineers" as if that's a thing already work at google) would run phuctor on.
mircea_popescu: they run in circles of their own design and then complain about the results. it's like a scene spitefully drawn by rochester.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "All servers are connected by 2 or more 10Gb network links in active/active LACP."
mircea_popescu: but... why ?
asciilifeform: i have monumentally nfi why
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/29BAAA083699C2ABCFD0ED196201367CBA08B7AB03B3DF11757F8106ED70433B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1434...8917 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (spec2.smu.ca. CA NS)
mircea_popescu: i mean the only thing this says is "we suck at system design"
mircea_popescu: yes, your front end should run whatever, 18 bn terragigs or anything you can find
mircea_popescu: but if your backend needs MULTIPLE 10g ports you're doing something wrong.
asciilifeform: actually i worked once in certain place where we had dozens of 10g portz --- but there was a logical reason
mircea_popescu: of course this leads them to buying no less than two cisco 5596UP. that's 25 grand.
asciilifeform: (buncha boxes pxebooting from lan simultaneously, round the clock, for shitware analysis)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they run a qntra!
mircea_popescu: mkay, so they use a dozen server and a coupla sql ; grossly misprovisioned networking infrastructure and whatevs. whole setup should be about 50k.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/12410CE4CD32008ABBD7B02A78C2E2EFB40A518866B52C2DFC884623E0DC5EA3 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1535...8763 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip-217-117-28-54.bnk.lt. LT)
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 766.36, vol: 4806.11493697 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 758.387, vol: 3488.09214 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 765.78, vol: 10231.54029497 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 774.02763, vol: 935485.94050000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 767.358, vol: 842.78398918 | Volume-weighted last average: 773.837638236
BingoBoingo: !!up ser
deedbot: ser voiced for 30 minutes.
ser: :)
BingoBoingo: 8=====D
ser: i'm just a silent reader
BingoBoingo: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
ser: an architect. he is dying at the moment
ser: because of tobacco addiction
BingoBoingo: That's very sad.
BingoBoingo: Hope he finds Peace.
ser: i told him to quit dozens years ago
BingoBoingo: Addiction is weird.
ser: especially such stupid one
BingoBoingo: It's easy to become powerless over nicotine, but very hard to see how it makes life unmanageable until the end.
ser: it's like taking a 140y mortgage :)
BingoBoingo: !!up ser
deedbot: ser voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Nah, for most people if you get a low interest rate 140 year mortgage is great. Very low payments.
ser: but grandchildren are not being asked if they like it, as they are usually unborn
BingoBoingo: Grandchildren get it even better because inflation. Movie tickets used to cost a nickle!
ser: swedish parliament recently limited mortgages to 105 years maximum only
BingoBoingo: That's only six years longer than "traditional" maximum lease!
ser: Royal Bank of Scotland did not pass "stress tests" whaterver it means
ser: what is your estimation - how much money is lacking?
ser: XX billions, XXX billions, XXXX billions?
ben_vulpes: there are only 21 million bitcoin, so if they're that short they may be in a bit of a tight spot
BingoBoingo: brb, sleep
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/08/a-brief-discourse-on-sovereignty/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A brief discourse on sovereignty.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> diana_coman for some reason it decided i'm anonymous lol. <- fixed; weird though, as I can't seem to be able to reproduce whatever the issue was
Framedragger: random question: have there been considerations for introducing financial instruments to eulora at some point, for trade etc? just curious
Framedragger: !#s futures eulora
a111: 0 results for "futures eulora", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=futures%20eulora
Framedragger: !#s derivatives eulora
a111: 1 result for "derivatives eulora", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=derivatives%20eulora
diana_coman: Framedragger, you are probably better off searching the logs of the eulora channel
diana_coman: I vaguely recall some discussion touching a bit on that
Framedragger: diana_coman: ah, good idea, thanks :)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5AB617368C211177E70A6D35E959F5F5D02B25D9A6AE8A81E3291C4BE369B494 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2192...4261 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID BA)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E29C622D65A4E5719E5E2D2F15B59462D2AC218BB9C28FF2CC1C1E43AA1B95B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2379...9311 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (svn1.ez.no. NO)
mircea_popescu: diana_coman issue might have been my accidentally leaving field empty.
mircea_popescu: ser> what is your estimation - how much money is lacking? << more than exists, basically.
mircea_popescu: ie, if the govt prints ten times what rbs has and gives it to them, it will improve nothing, just increase the "how much more they need" by a factor of tenish.
mircea_popescu has the pleasure to introduce EDLionX , who's chinese, lives in brunei and looks altogether like a great kid (though he isn't a kid!)
EDLionX: uhh
EDLionX: heyy all
EDLionX: I'm not a Kid
EDLionX: that's all
diana_coman is waiting for BingoBoingo to ask "who's your daddy?"
mircea_popescu: EDLionX can you translate from chinese ?
EDLionX: sure
EDLionX: what ya need bossman
mircea_popescu: a that's nice to know.
mircea_popescu: not right now, but occasionally there's news items that get poorly translated to en by idiots
mircea_popescu: actually BingoBoingo what was that thing vaguely mentioned on qntra recently ?
EDLionX: alright
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://threatpost.com/hackers-gamify-ddos-attacks-with-collaborative-platform/122290/
mircea_popescu: doh.
mircea_popescu: i thought they gamified with the "loic" thing a decade ago
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://archive.is/rSEYe << whats with all the bs sites that don't work
Framedragger: EDLionX: there's a bunch of boxes with factored ssh keys, would be great for someone to go through them and check what webserver crap they're running... http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574580 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574597 if interested, go ahead :p☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 16:35 asciilifeform: << 'Partido Obrero Secretaria de Prensa'
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 16:50 asciilifeform: anyway, i have neither the time (presently grunting out a much-delayed and urgent item) nor inclination to do the entire backlog (what, 800 of these?! by now) by hand.
Framedragger: see ip addresses in this list, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nfi, perhaps overzealous ip blok ban
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've run into quite a few of these
mircea_popescu: Framedragger he's an english/math teacher not a coder from what i gather.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect bad https.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: no coding really needed, mind you! at least not for this 'phase' of analysis. but ya sure
EDLionX: oh hey yeah Frame, no offense, but you just completely assblasted me
Framedragger: hmm, a rather visual answer, fair nuff :p well, glory awaits someone!
mircea_popescu: Framedragger really, shouldn't just run the scan on port 80 ?
Framedragger: the particular scanner used for extracting pubkeys is not meant for that kind of stuff, but.. the first phase thing ("check who's alive") can grab banners, yeah.. would require fiddling (connections would become stateful, right now first phase uses 'SYN cookies') but ya sure possible
Framedragger: i guess i should rerun the scanner at some point at any rate
mircea_popescu: i suppose even something as simple as curl $item would work really huh.
Framedragger: for some initial additional data, i think so yeah..
mircea_popescu: no i mean, to see if live webserver.
mircea_popescu: cat iplist.txt | while read ip; do curl -A "blabla" "http://$ip/" > results.txt; done
Framedragger: (ah. suresure. well if one plans to do that on millions of machines or more, better to use simple tcp sockets hm. say that masscan for 1st phase uses its own tcp stack to not exhaust kernel handles accidentally, etc...)
mircea_popescu: afaik the phuctor list is like 1k or so ips by now no ?
Framedragger: yes, something like that.
Framedragger: (1319)
shinohai: Just waiting to be Framedragged: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cxk9H4eUcAE7xCv.jpg
mircea_popescu: that ssd 3 hui gate is not bad either.
Framedragger: HuiGate? so like, a pussy?
Framedragger just made a shitty .ru joke and is very proud of it
mircea_popescu: ikr ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman https://instagram.fsst1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/15403578_1040577492731424_4285726398984749056_n.jpg << this look like anything to you ?
diana_coman: bwahahhaa; when we were made pioneers we had this picture by the flag thing
diana_coman: quite the same, esp the face of that guy
diana_coman: "cultural production capacity"
mircea_popescu: it is still alive!
mircea_popescu: including the fucking machined rug. everything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the things to scan, that very often are found: 80 (http), 443 (ssl), and if either found, the page; if ssl -- the cert id strings (see l0gz for how) , and lastly, ftp (yes, believe or now) and telnet greetings.
diana_coman: clearly, yes; tbh I had this uneasy feeling of totally back to the 80's when I went to Belarus some ...hm, 7 years ago already
diana_coman: but I don't expect it really changed all that much either
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a right, must not forget telnet.
asciilifeform: but it only makes sense to do this to popped boxes, Framedragger's ssh scan requires just 1 SYN, but these other things - 10,001 times moar
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu is too lazy to edit the bash above, but anyway
asciilifeform: sshello=`timeout -k 0m 3s nc $ip 22`;
asciilifeform: ^ line from bash script, gives sshd greeting from $ip if exists
asciilifeform: curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored | grep "ssh-rsa key from" | cut -d' ' -f23 | sort | uniq
asciilifeform: ^ gives list of ips in question
asciilifeform: e.g., for ip in `curl -s http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored | grep "ssh-rsa key from" | cut -d' ' -f23 | sort | uniq`; do ...something with $ip..... done
asciilifeform: more or less self-explanatory.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E29C622D65A4E5719E5E2D2F15B59462D2AC218BB9C28FF2CC1C1E43AA1B95B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1513...1869 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (svn1.ez.no. NO)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5AB617368C211177E70A6D35E959F5F5D02B25D9A6AE8A81E3291C4BE369B494 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...9417 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ID BA)
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> actually BingoBoingo what was that thing vaguely mentioned on qntra recently ? << You'd have to be a bit more specific
Framedragger: :D
mircea_popescu: there was some badly translated "proceeds of miner conference" sometime earlier this year
mircea_popescu: sadly that's about the extent of my recollection ;/
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-03#1039158 << found it|!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-03-03 01:48 BingoBoingo: So... Anyone here know chinese? Good enought to translate a Hand complete police report?
BingoBoingo: Oh my
mircea_popescu: and in today's "very early trilema article remarkably on point", http://trilema.com/2011/ce-probleme-rezolva-ecologia/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re ^ and the part where the asian folk donated jewelry to motherland's central bank , quite reminiscent of the 'old woman who bought t-34 tank and named it after stalin and her five dead sons' recurring item in ww2
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: i.e. i have nfi how many parts fact to how many parts propagandistic swill
mircea_popescu: it seems credible to me qualitatively ; quantitatively i have nfi.
asciilifeform: i can actually see the tank;
asciilifeform: but, why the fuck would anyone donate family gold to prop up emperor's golden toilet
mircea_popescu: because the emperor is ; in traditionalist societies existence is predicated on existence.
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would cunt lubricate to ease penile intromission ?
asciilifeform: in traditional society we also have 'emperor is far away, what care i'
mircea_popescu: fuck i love this article. "Deci, ce probleme rezolva ecologia ? Niciunele. Ecologia se bucura insa de sprijinul institutional al statului ca justificare persuasiva si credibila a nevoii de-a reechilibra administrativ dezechilibre economice induse administrativ. Tot aceleasi probleme pe care le rezolva si psihologia," -> "So, what problems does ecology resolve ? No problems. Ecology simply enjoys institutional support of the [
mircea_popescu: socialist] state as a persuasive and credible justification for the need to rebalance administratively imbalances induced administratively. same exact problems psychology resolves."
asciilifeform: afaik standard feudal org chart works in steps (d00d answers to ~immediate~ commanding officer)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really. ru peasant aslo thought emperor is good ; and right here.
asciilifeform: good part of 'царь-батюшка' is that he never asks you directly to do anything
mircea_popescu: this "what care i" is very much a proposal to modulate behaviour ; whereas this active diatesis is not there contemplated.
asciilifeform: can always blame immediate superior for your famine, fleas, conscription
mircea_popescu: "the emperor is ; this gold is ; they go together."
phf: not quite true, you had лжецаревич uprisings
asciilifeform: tru
asciilifeform: analogous to chain forks..
phf: also kind of tru re famine, but typically boyars were blamed rather then tzar or barin
phf: since both were beyond reprise
asciilifeform: well yes, you blame the d00d who actually worked you to the bone
mircea_popescu: phf you did ; nevertheless - in the case of those runaways who were discovered in the 60s after however many centuries of absence, what figured greatly was that a) the tsar is good and b) that woe on random anon merchant for refusing to donate a quarter ton of potatoes to the cause.
phf: no, no, i'm saying the opposite. ~barin~ in this case is the dude who worked you to the bone
asciilifeform: goodcop/badcop symbiosis, landlord/emperor
asciilifeform: reverse, rather
mircea_popescu: and the fake ivans etc are not exactly attacks on the tsar ; they're just a discussion of identity , not actually a modernisation proposal.
mircea_popescu: similar to the whole "mandate ofheaven" chinese thing - IS he or ISN'T he the "one true emperor" ; whether his being anything in particular matters with regards to "his job" ie, what he has to do is not discussed. even the notion that emperorhood is a job is nonsensical in context.
asciilifeform: eh, semantic games. rebel armies surround capital? ooops, must mean he lost mandate of heaven!
mircea_popescu: (for distinction between emperorhood and emperorship see http://trilema.com/2011/oamenii-superficiali-si-bestia/ )
phf: i think i'm being misunderstood. i'm saying that fake-tzars were cases of "emperor asking of you", because both tzar and barin (i.e. immediate supervisor) were seen as fundamental good. peasants consistently and historically allocated blame on various random hangerons. boyars, traders, foreigners, etc. in fact in fake-tzar cases the narrative was consistent "evil boyars have deposed our tzar-father and we won't stand for it"
asciilifeform: 'mandate of heaven' is about as logically consistent as the proverbial witch-drowning tester
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they're only semantic games to you ; for they to be games they need the optionality.
mircea_popescu: phf this is very true yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when my time machine malfunctions and aztec priest eats my heart so that quetzalcoatl will shit the sun back out, it will still be semantic game.
mircea_popescu: hence the "useful evil minister" strategy deployed in england and france as well as everywhere else - get the guy to do things then behead him.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so if i give you a lined mat and a pile of all black tiles you thereby "still have a game of go" ?
asciilifeform: not as such. though mircea_popescu's asian rituals and 'no optionality' thread reminds me of the infamous 'castle tournaments' in jp, where go players would rehearse same game dozens of times in advance
asciilifeform: ( royal folk dun like to wait for moves ! )
mircea_popescu: it's actually not a bad constraint.
mircea_popescu frequently requires better go players to play very fast and train for it in advance.
asciilifeform: and, BingoBoingo , this is 1000+ yrs before pro wrestling!!111
mircea_popescu: just because i can't keep up with the horse doesn't mean it won't get its exercise. we have mechanics!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no, it wasn't even that they played 'blitz', but ~memorized game~
asciilifeform: and simply tape-played it back.
mircea_popescu: ah.
mircea_popescu: no, my idea simply was "explore all the trees for my convenience".
asciilifeform: ( precious few folks played blitz go, it makes for atrocious games )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: serious aficionados today have proggies for browsing tree, e.g., 'kombilo'
asciilifeform: ( https://www.u-go.net/kombilo )
mircea_popescu: getting back to the modern/traditional thing : there's a very visible and practically relevant distinction in trade. when i hire a modernist, i hire him to do a job, and i expect him to do a job. but when i hire a traditionalist, i am essentially assigning office. and as it is LOGICAL in that context, he may agree to any "job" specification ie burdens on the title before he gets it, while all he IS is humble applicant ; but o
mircea_popescu: nce he gets it, once he IS the job title, then of course he finds himself in a more elevated position, which should mean by his logic that he gets to renegotiate and eliminate some of the burdens.
mircea_popescu: which is exactly why simple minded folks in third countries such as argentina etc display the strange behaviour where they don't wish to actually work, first discussed in the article about whores
asciilifeform: eh it's an orc thing, 'работа стоит -- а срок идет!' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: ( http://trilema.com/2010/romanul-si-comertul/#selection-75.56-75.175 )
asciilifeform: ('work stands still, but the [prison] sentence still moving!')
asciilifeform: modify, perhaps, for modern world, 'work stands still, but the paycheque still approaches')
mircea_popescu: aha. HOWEVER - which is why i bring all this up - the reversal is fucking evident here too.
mircea_popescu: see, when I hire diana_coman to do dev work for eulora, OF FUCKING COURSE she gets to redefine the job on the basis of the title. because before she got it she hadn't seen the code, and after she had, for instance. or for any other reason.
mircea_popescu: in short, in the entirety of the observable universe, we are reverting to traditionalist systems, approaches and altogether a reality.
mircea_popescu: most computing jobs are unspecifiable in the terms most industrial jobs of the brief modernist interlude were specifiable.
mircea_popescu: whereas most computing jobs require identity in terms entirely impossible in the brief modernist interlude. what cares the cotton ginny whether you are white or black skinned ?
mircea_popescu: and this is what all the unicode wastage is : they, the lost souls of a dead world, are trying to make computers more like cotton ginnies. more inclusive, more capable to work with a modernist perspective, where who dun matter and what is considered.
asciilifeform: did the sword 'care' whether knight came from 10 or 40 generations of pure-blooded norman ?
asciilifeform: or did the horse ?
mircea_popescu: yes. both.
mircea_popescu: fundamental myth of english feudalism is a sword that cared.
mircea_popescu: fundamental myth of english modernism is "blind love", which, if you'll notice, is at the time of its introduction a very cheap trick very much in the manner of protestantism ; and also a mythical beast :
asciilifeform: and fundamental myth of pygmistan is that magical horn (today replaced with drainpipe, they forgot how to carve wood) that talks to the dead
mircea_popescu: the belgian woman from before. "blind" as in, no who just what. a modernist unicorn.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pygmystan is not actually a culture ; stone age tribes don't get names.
mircea_popescu: it's just "the stone age".
asciilifeform: eh the bantu -- who enslaved them -- iirc had iron.
asciilifeform: so just as iron-age as ol' rotten england
asciilifeform: just stuck there.
mircea_popescu: (the discussion of all this, for the curious, is probably best started with the trilema on the mind's compartments, http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/ (
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iron age is ~norman conquest. industrial age is a different thing.
asciilifeform: iron, turns out, is not such a handy 'iq test', plenty of folx passed the iron exam and failed everything else.
asciilifeform: re 'cheap protestant tricks', and also in re 'argentinians who sit in chair and won't work', a good chunk of the weirdo mass-programming the protestants have been doing for 200+ yrs is precisely to 'make'em work'
asciilifeform: there are not so many ways to make folks work.
asciilifeform: you can prevent 'работа стоит -- а срок идет!' by imposing 'no work - no food' quotas, and this was often tried in gulag, but led to unexpected problems
mircea_popescu: except there is no "work" in the abstract, as a byproduct of anti-idlehandsaredevilswork. not anymore.
asciilifeform: (in 100 zeks, you get a few well-fed блатные and a bunch of dystrophic worker bees )
mircea_popescu: back in 1616 there was a "do something - anything". today that results in github.
mircea_popescu: and not just in github, it results in 5bn for BART's 16 track miles and in 12mn/year for 1bn database for microsoft.
asciilifeform: and in egypt it resulted in pyramids
mircea_popescu: in short - it dun work, in any practical way.
asciilifeform: shithub is a religious ritual
mircea_popescu: the Floating Littoral Embarassment is very much the symbolic product of "technology by modernist means in postmodernist times"
asciilifeform: also pyramid.
asciilifeform: if you have a massive project that nobody computes ROI on, and folks throw rotten eggs at anyone who suggests doing so --- pyramid.
asciilifeform: ( in all fairness, moon probe, arpanet, etc -- also pyramid )
mircea_popescu: modernity hadn't quite ended yet.
asciilifeform: (egyptian, rather than ponzi, pyramid)
asciilifeform: and often i get distinct impression that mircea_popescu is posting from a parallel future on mars : where, e.g., robots are not three orders of magnitude more expensive than well-brainwashed 'work ethic' folx working with bare hands
mircea_popescu: they aren't.
asciilifeform: you gotta take the ~hardest~-to-roboticize industrial processes as the basis for comparison, not the ~easiest~;
asciilifeform: otherwise we 'had cheap robots' in 1850, cotton mill
mircea_popescu: there are a number of reasons for this. 1. robots eat electricity ; humans eat a sort of oil derivate ; see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-05#1577962 ; 2. robots are an industrial product, this costs ~nothing while "well brainwashed humans" are the equivalent of a "well behaved wife". tell you what, here's a half billion girlies in your "civilised world", you have a week to find a wife. let me know what you spent.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-05 16:09 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-04#1577534 << the petrol engine is not well impedance-matched with anything, even auto wheels on asphalt ! hence the 'hybrids' thing
asciilifeform: talk to folx who worked with industrial robots, dun take asciilifeform's word for it: robotization of a process is not 'magical free work while you supply mains current', but replaces 100 fungible gurlz with 1-3 'assembly line phd', which is not always a +ev trade
asciilifeform: nor is yield necessarily higher, because Software Sucks
mircea_popescu: i suspect i might've talked to more industrial robots folks than you have over our respective careers, but be that as it may, the trend is towards not away job destruction.
asciilifeform: this is on account of easily-roboticized 'low hanging fruit' (e.g., pcb component placement) and also shortages of human hands created by welfarization
mircea_popescu: the welfarization creates nothing. it is the maggot on the corpse of postmodern industry.
mircea_popescu: those people would have been idle anyway.
asciilifeform: take mircea_popescu's proverbial 'twerk chick'. her grandmother - was idle ?
mircea_popescu: (kinda yet another angle of why the great again is so lulzy - what, economic trends will reverse by election ?)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no ; because modernism hadn't ended yet. but the chick herself - if she weren't twerking she'd be on reddit . there is literally NOTHING for her to do.
mircea_popescu: with the exception of tmsr, there is NO PLACE in this world which sticks to the modern tradition of, "random bozo walks in, is given a job"
mircea_popescu: this is how eg construction yards used to work, for milennia. not anymore, for decades now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from whence then comes this 'nothing to do' ??
mircea_popescu: from "robotization" in the general sense of the term.
asciilifeform: this 'total robotization' thing, i can see it as a logical conclusion, but it isn't here yet. e.g., how many robots has mircea_popescu , to date, fucked ?
mircea_popescu: fucking me is not a job. it is an honor.
mircea_popescu: i've not decorated any robots either.
asciilifeform: aite. when mircea_popescu called plumber, did robot show up ?
mircea_popescu: amusingly - i used to call plumbers in places where plumbing had been laid by hand. but in places where plumbing laid by robot - no need so far.
mircea_popescu: dat old ecosystem drives itself by supporting its niches and denying competing niches thing.
asciilifeform: elaborate re 'plumbing laid by robot'
asciilifeform: referring here to digging machine ? (a bit of stretch to call 1890s item 'robot')
mircea_popescu: you are aware "car fixing" ie, "that is my idea of heaven - a bucket o' grease and a cracked cylinder" now consists of sticking probes in dataports ?
asciilifeform: well yes, it consists of 'read error code and throw part # into order form and replace assembly'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, plumbing mostly comes as part of the prefab components of construction nowadays. is not separate thing.
mircea_popescu: "robots" does not strictly mean r2d2. entirely automated process chain is also a robot in this sense, even if perhaps a meta-robot for they preoccupied with the physicality of things.
mircea_popescu: ie - the visually driven notion of "robot" as "anthropomorphised tuna can" is not particularly useful in a discussion of economics and robots.
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teufz17PqoY << re prefab plumbing, oblig.
mircea_popescu: heh. laugh all you want, and take refuge in 1970s artworks if you will - but the fact remains that if you buy planks you buy planks but if you buy ikea you buy robotized planks.
mircea_popescu: it's what it is, out of the final table in the latter case about 2/3 is robot work.
mircea_popescu: yes, there isn't a beep-boop thing going around your livingroom. but it might as well be - the warehouse is entirely robotized ; the production line mostly ; etcetera. even driving is going away.
asciilifeform: actually there ~is~ , lol
mircea_popescu: do you know how many longshoremen work for amazon ? o wait ... the name is entirely antiquated.
asciilifeform robotization aficionado, has programmable vacuum, etc
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: at no point in my head for this thread was 'tuna can', but the headaches of fairly standard industrial robot process over which i presided some years ago
mircea_popescu: sure, but tell you what : the headaches of managing herd would be a lot closer in your mind had you i dunno, been a mcdonalds manager in your late teens.
asciilifeform: quite possibly.
mircea_popescu: there's no economic future for the average human, quite literally.
mircea_popescu: for as long as we still feel like entertaining ourselves by providing them with food and board, the derpage will last. and they'll "put women back into history at the call of bbc wikipedia.
asciilifeform: 'robocalypse' is a when, not if, yes, but there are certain obstacles (mainly reducing to 'software sucks', and even 'we don't quite have computer yet')
mircea_popescu: once that becomes old, they'll become dead, in a very starved and cold sense of the term.
mircea_popescu: yes, well, that when is cca 1999.
mircea_popescu: anyway - the original point was how the environment changed, and modernism is strictly no longer possible because exogenous reasons, not opened to consensusing electoralizing etc.
mircea_popescu: the WHO is the major consideration ; the what is relatively equivalent.
mircea_popescu: which reduces to and is in fact equivalent with the "no economic future for average human" above, and with the "there's nothing one can do on the simple basis of being one" even further above.
asciilifeform: afaik we still dun have a tech for producing ubermenschen other than by keeping massive herd of 'average human' around somewhere
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ << somewhere is important.
asciilifeform: ^ sorta how golden age su worked
asciilifeform: roughly.
mircea_popescu: (o look! the separation of the fat from the water in the sense of leaving the who-equivalent modernists behind in the gutter is actually quite the viscerally ferocious thing!)
mircea_popescu: nobody is going to forbid modernism. they who wish to feel equal will have a place where this is how things works.
mircea_popescu: (arguably this is also in the past - not like i'm actually forbidding redditards to reddit, even as i am squeezing the cream from the thing)
asciilifeform: in mircea_popescu's sketch, by what process does 'who' come to exist ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579718☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 14:44 mircea_popescu has the pleasure to introduce EDLionX , who's chinese, lives in brunei and looks altogether like a great kid (though he isn't a kid!)
mircea_popescu: how else ? exactly how it historically worked.
asciilifeform: well yes, but how didja dig him out of the ground
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, for instance, (for those who were not tuned in), was excavated from www by hanbot
mircea_popescu: chance encounter.
mircea_popescu: rather similar actually!
mircea_popescu: eulora, with its steep learning curve and well engineered intake manifolds is actually a muchly improved bitcoin from THIS perspective.
mircea_popescu: ie, "how to fish whos"
asciilifeform: this may be, but i could not tell that this is so by the backflow from #e into #t
mircea_popescu: hey. everything around you is new.
mircea_popescu: still, the question was "how who" not "how non-who". that your milk contains fat and water is not a valid objection to "how do you get fat from the cow ?" "you milk it"
asciilifeform not in eulora and cannot say
asciilifeform: but so far looks to me as if it mostly attracts folk who are good at playing eulora, rather than generalists spilling over into the kinds of projects in motion here.
asciilifeform: (exiles from other muds..?)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever translate http://trilema.com/2010/minciuna-cosubstantiala ?
asciilifeform: (early piece re 'promisetronics')
mircea_popescu: i don't think i did no
mircea_popescu: and i am entirely unconvinced by this "good at x" bs. nobody's "good at x". the "good at x" is nonsense of the ilk and period of "blind love", to try and help the wedge of who-equivalency into the trunk of reality.
mircea_popescu: either your brain works or doesn't. if it does, you can use it for all brain things, much like either your cunt works or doesn't, and if it does it does for all dicks.
mircea_popescu: there's no "good at math" anymore than there is "white dicks cunt"
asciilifeform: did i miss rsa worst-case difficulty proof emerging from mircea_popescu's well-trained harem ?
asciilifeform: how about cs equivalence to diffie hellman proof ?
mircea_popescu: what sense does this make ?
mircea_popescu: i also didn't see meat airplane borne out of the soviet maternity circuit. this proves something ?
asciilifeform: if 'there is no good-at' and can train-anybody-to-anything with sufficient application of hot irons
mircea_popescu: hot irons weren't mentioned.
asciilifeform: even better
trinque: and that a brain works does not mean that the requisite information for a particular has yet been jammed in.
mircea_popescu: for one thing.
mircea_popescu: "this cpu could do anything" "i don't see your sql server doing any dos emulation work" "nigga... wut ?!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu surely was involved in some form of sport, at one time. or knew folks who were. did trainers take the approach 'either body works, or doesn't' ? or did they pick childrenz with the right body type for the contest
mircea_popescu: laugh, but they very pointedly picked former approach.
mircea_popescu: there was entirely no "picking" in romania, the romania that produced the first full 10 olympic gymnasts. hundreds of thousands of kids ran into thousands of pe teachers who very pointedly "body works to it - now make it work to jump!"
mircea_popescu: body works to eat*
asciilifeform: having 10,000,001 kidz do somersaults is cheap
mircea_popescu: the "nfl picks" usian system seemed very alien, and quite frankly wasteful, to the general mind. "americans will never amount to anything in sports" therefore.
mircea_popescu: of course, this was in a time of general conscription and so forth. obviously things have changed - it is easier after all.
mircea_popescu: and no, i have no argument - it is EASIER to think of yourself as "i am good at x" raqther than "brain works or doesn't work."
mircea_popescu: now THAT easy-seeking habituation is what the hot irons are used for.
asciilifeform: gymnasts may not be perfect example. when you have a role where the training per se is costly, you're stuck picking. e.g., pilots; i recently read a quite interesting autobio, 'Обречены на подвиг' ('condemned to heroism', roughly) by su flying d00d / instructor / colonel. described how children having any physical imperfection, even tooth cavity, were mercilessly rejected from flight academy even if they passed all of
asciilifeform: the theoretical weedouts
mircea_popescu: i personally prefer the "here's the book pile, go read whatever ; do something"
mircea_popescu: why should i pick and why should i care.
mircea_popescu: if you feel like anything good ; and if you feel like nothing in particular reddit's that way.
asciilifeform: this is rather different statement than 'there are no good-ats, anyone can anything'
mircea_popescu: but by all means, if you, trinque or anyone else feels like running su airpilot style court, your right and priviledge. i'm sure it'll work just fine.
asciilifeform: reddit is full of folx who 'feel like nothing' because good-at nothing
mircea_popescu: it's not like preference's forbidden or anything. i'm sure i'd be great at fucking dudes, too, i never fucked any nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: the point is, that "i would suck at fucking dudes" is a very poor excuse and entirely rotten pillar of identity.
asciilifeform: as soon as the cost of failure is >0, selection becomes a thing -- does mircea_popescu not carefully select harem ?
mircea_popescu: nope. and what is the cost of failure ?
Framedragger: http://shivankaul.com/blog/2016/12/07/clean-your-desk-yet-another-amazon-interview-experience.html
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am ill-equipped to describe it. but presumably there is a reason mircea_popescu has a harem, and not a human chick-sized 'cat door' to let in whoever.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine that whoever wanted to get in couldn't at least try.
mircea_popescu: what exactly is the cost of failure ? is it some sort of "oh, i can't go talk to the girl in the bar" sort of crazy ?
asciilifeform: how about 'burns house down'
asciilifeform: 'plants nsa bugs'
asciilifeform: or similar.
mircea_popescu: it's insured. heh ok.
mircea_popescu: why would there be a THE HOUSE ? i don't subscribne to "let's all go to the same shitty island and make a georepublic" ima have a the house ?
asciilifeform: proverbian the-house.
asciilifeform: *proverbial
mircea_popescu: so she burns down some apartment. the firepeople will put it out, the insurance people will pay for it and i guess the police people will take her to the doctorpeople or w/e.
mircea_popescu: or if they don't because society broke down, i guess my guardpeople shoot her and throw the body to the dogs. either way.
asciilifeform: and guards -- picked off the street, because anybody-can-anything? or selected for certain attributes ?
mircea_popescu: both!
asciilifeform: will mircea_popescu hire a blind d00d? missing trigger finger? or even one of BingoBoingo's patients ?
mircea_popescu: as in, picked off the streets because anybody can anything and selected for certain attributes.
BingoBoingo: Wait I have patients nao?
mircea_popescu: what, i'ma only hire x school graduates like obama ? wtf am i , stupid.
asciilifeform: 'has 10 fingers' != 'has imperial diploma'
mircea_popescu: picked off the streets == "not has imperial diploma"
asciilifeform: now i'm stumped
asciilifeform: elaborate ?
mircea_popescu: how would i elaborate, you'e the one who's stumped. you elaborate.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you have, now, patients ! probably you've done moar to cure gluttony than most medical men
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: random d00d 'from street' could indeed have 'imperial diploma' neh ?
mircea_popescu: i imagine he could, sure.
mircea_popescu: they usually don't walk the streets, being selected for a sort of pretentious lazyness, but anyway.
asciilifeform: so i how do i parse 'picked off the streets == "not has imperial diploma"'
asciilifeform: it eggogs in my head
mircea_popescu: ah. "no shits given re imperial diploma"
asciilifeform: aah aite.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: http://shivankaul.com/blog/2016/12/07/clean-your-desk-yet-another-amazon-interview-experience.html << this is some serious sf shit.
mircea_popescu has walked out of numerous meetings etc, often offended, but never participated into SUCH INSANITY wtf.
asciilifeform: this story makes 0 sense
asciilifeform: why would they give exam on the d00d's comp, at ~his~ house
mircea_popescu: dude i have nfi. because they're used to hiring camwhores ?
asciilifeform: normally this kind of thing is done by inviting candidate to a locked booth after arse search etc
mircea_popescu: yes but i guess they can't be arsed to deal with stuck in traffic peon / having to physically go to the peon pen etc
asciilifeform: ah hm i think i get it
asciilifeform: technical term is 'shit test'
asciilifeform: 'sir please locate a cucumber' 'now bend..'
mircea_popescu: i guess the dude was just "getting his identity confirmed" or w/e KYC stuff.
asciilifeform: selected. for obedience.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, my selection-for-obedience process doesn't also select for comatose mental state simultaneously.
mircea_popescu: anyway, bbl
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/mIgMP/?raw=true
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/yahoo-caulks-another-hole/ << Qntra - Yahoo Caulks Another Hole
mats: 😘
mats: merp. friendo typed in my window
trinque: lol
trinque charitably assumes it was a chick blowing kisses at the Republic
mod6: :]
shinohai: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/12/08/world/middleeast/ap-ml-iraq-mosul-ambush.html?_r=0 <<< urban warfare fail for Iraq army
trinque: As Iraqi forces advanced toward the al-Salam hospital in Mosul earlier this week, encountering only light resistance from Islamic State fighters, commanders decided to seize the facility instead of sweeping the neighborhoods along the road leading to it.
trinque: then later "elite forces"
phf: asciilifeform: i didn't read that thread too close, but in japan they still seem to do "hire who not how" presumably successfully http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/
phf: "The company will mold you to their exacting specifications to do whatever form of service they require. You will happily comply, in this as in all things. For example, if your company needs a Java-speaking systems engineer and you have a degree in Art History, this is not a problem because you can be fixed."
phf: "Sure it might take ten years and only work on a quarter of the new hires but that’s why we employ you for 45 years and hire a hundred at once!"
phf: and on the subject of japan and doing things right, gwern wrote about internet culture in japan http://www.gwern.net/The%20Melancholy%20of%20Subculture%20Society#japan-and-the-internet he got everything wrong, but the subject is interesting
BingoBoingo: In other customer complaints: "Bought a weed and grass killer. Used it according to instructions and it killed a linden tree and many plants. Ace does not seem to be responsible and turned me over to a David at spectrum who admitted that their product does damage."