mircea_popescu: as i said, i can see this reading ; but it is entirely not what the text says.
mircea_popescu: what, fellow could not have used his language to say what he meant, i am to reconstruct the dinosaur out of half tooth ?
phf: it is, hence my comment about "ponedelnik"
mircea_popescu: well, so it's martian, happens. not like it's mandatory or anything ; but might be informative. or not.
phf: but there's a point there, which is not necessarily about the man, but about the author. the selling forbes part, which i think is true. bulk of su intelligentsia went full "progressive" after the collapse
mircea_popescu: the other direct avenue, of course, is to say "text was a lot better as author submitted it, before forbes"ru" chiseled it into visible shape". which for all i know might even be true,
mircea_popescu: god knows nobody has YET written a piece for the usg faux news outlets that survived braindamaging at time of packaging (and some truly eminent examples documented by various parties)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then there's no substance to your disagreement, nor is the reading martian after all ?!
mircea_popescu: well now i wanna see this. pretend i'm dead and let's see three paragraphs.
mircea_popescu: but you spoke like one who had considered the matter of writing obits quite well ?!
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to say "if i were writing it i'd have written the same" when you wrote a few and considered how you'd write even more. but on the nude... ?
mircea_popescu: am i actually the only one to have written any obituaries, incidentally ?
mircea_popescu: it should perhaps be pointed out that while things like grocery lists, love letters, blog articles, ransom notes at all one might "should" write, it is the obituary which stands alone among all the literary forms as the only piece man must, eventually but absolutely MUST write.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how come your above item fails to point out the obvious, "he was dedicated to the supremacy of white man, and his enslavement of the entire world and nature itself to his own tastes and inclinations" ?
mircea_popescu: how come the arcane "you're missing the includes" need not be mentioned in one piece but was mentioned in the other and this gives you no pause in the "that's how i'd have done" ?
mircea_popescu: you understand statement is the first process in the dissolution of taboo and the de-fanging of belief ?
mircea_popescu: one item is stated ; the other item is not stated. does this belie anything about the relative situations of beliefs ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 22:16 mircea_popescu: works ok for eg torrents, where all data is needed once in no particular order, but blockchain is not torrent.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 00:36 asciilifeform: ( because they don't be sitting for 30sec to 6min per block grunting ecdsa )
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 16:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform republic has strength to enforce dunnit ?
mircea_popescu: where the fuck is that piece commenting on how soviet citizens all sooner or later wake up to the disney quality of their state ?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2015-06-28 19:14 mircea_popescu: the entire idea of what we are building here is NODE HIERARCHY.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-29 02:56 asciilifeform: i sorta want to start doing this thing where we for blocks 0 ... n, sha512sum block_n | gpg ...
esthlos: phf: a little birdie told me you are working on a diff replacement. have you made significant progress?
phf: i took a little break to put it into CWEB so i can print it and read it (cutting process was mostly mechanic, so now i need to actually grok some of the things it does), but that turned out to be a pita
phf: well 200k, rest is whitespace and comments
esthlos: fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest
☟︎☟︎ phf: original figure, i believe was wc -l on everything, i refined the loc mesasure
ben_vulpes: they're not all there, as that's the directory they get dumped into after mimisbrunnr is asked for them the first time
phf: esthlos: what do you mean by transparently?
esthlos: phf: vaguely, that the code maps to the actual problem with no extraneous complexity, in an easily readable way
esthlos: the program should be a good substitute for reading the paper directly
phf: well, the context of what i'm trying to do is in the logs. specifically mcilroy diffing implementation is not necessarily the problem (relevant bits of gnudiff are reducable to maybe 500-1000 loc)
phf: what i'm trying to do is not so much a rewrite, as first an ascii style cut of relevant bits, to preserve backwards compatability with current patches, and then augmentation to support various operations that were discussed in logs, that are more about file management than they are about diffing
phf: what you have on top of original paper is unified diff format and the handling of multiple files in a single patch. (that's where you run into the bulk of extra code; things like sorting directory is simply unpleasant to do in C)
phf: this follows ascii's pattern of trying to bend existing tools to our needs, before we know enough to do a greenfield rewrite. there's a lot of ideas floating around what v is supposed to do. a clean rewrite of mcilroy could serve as a basis for further work, but you should perhaps follow discussion in the logs on the subject to get the full scope of the problem
esthlos: phf: alright, I will have to read up. my practice v implementation will be in CL, and I was thinking of implementing mcilroy for educational purposes. if such an implementation sounds useful, let me know
phf: please do, it would be useful as a reference, but also for me specifically: btcbase.org/patch is written in common lisp, but it can only eat vpatches, not spit them out, so a mcilroy would be a solid addition
esthlos: excellent. also, I feel your pain. every day I write in C, I swear I lose an iq point
☟︎ phf: that would be a very gruesome science fiction narrative, if that was actually the case. a kind of strugatsky's roadside picnic :>
☟︎ esthlos: it seems specifically designed to reduce the intelligence of the programmer to what a manager can understand
☟︎ phf: but i actually really want to learn to spit out elegant C like knuth, djb or rob pike
phf: i mean, if you read norvig's python snippets you can clearly see they are written by a very experienced lispers. you literally never see python like that in the wild, but yet there it is.
☟︎ esthlos: elegant C exists, but the limits of the language the complexity it can handle without exploding into incomprehensibility.
☟︎ esthlos: certainly I can't write elegant C tho
esthlos: even with small C projects I start to panic when I realise I don't know how it works anymore
☟︎ phf: i had that experience when i tried implementing an older spec of gossipd. i wrote it in C, actually CWEB, but i wasn't doing literate programming right, and after a while the whole thing became overwhelming.
phf: but then i can also understand the whole "back in my day" sentiment. common lisp certainly lets you write ~very sloppy~ code and get away with it :>
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: that would be the case with trinque's bot too
deedbot: pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: thing expects a complicated challenge response state machine to happen
pehbot: asciilifeform: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 0: Stack Underflow!
pehbot: phf: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Stack Underflow!
pehbot: mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
pehbot: phf: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Stack Underflow!
pehbot: mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000015
phf: ascii: isn't ' a dup?
pehbot: mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000011
pehbot: mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000987654321
pehbot: mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000AAAAAAAAA
pehbot: mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF79BE02468
pehbot: phf: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001230000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001234
mod6: this is pretty cool lol
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF79BE02468 <
pehbot: asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
pehbot: phf: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
pehbot: phf: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004
pehbot: phf: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000050000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 00:54 asciilifeform: possibly this is it.
phf: asciilifeform: i like the . trick by the way, is there prior art to it?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i am not going to take responsibility for your not reading the connection routines. it's plain as day the thing expects magic strings.
ben_vulpes: when i booted one somehow i did not waste hours.
phf: well, . puts a zero and the 1-9A-F mutates the top, so you don't have to have state in the parser
ben_vulpes: freenode is the kludge; im not going to sink time into making *tronic bot that doesn't do auth itself because freenode doesn't like your host.
phf: i feel like you chould email it to chuck moore, he'll get a kick out of it "saves 25 bits on my greenarray cluster!"
mircea_popescu is willing to bet chuck moore is too dumb to figure this out.
pehbot: asciilifeform: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
pehbot: asciilifeform: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
phf: though come to think of it, in colorforth it'll make things more expensive (since now each digit basically costs a header-and-a-word's-worth)
phf: didn't we have a candi session!
mod6: i kinda like this thing, and while your loper posts are fresh, i'd like it hang for a bit.
pehbot: asciilifeform: loopswork in p
pehbot: asciilifeform: nestedwork in p
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 01:44 esthlos: fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform other than the wrong control sequence / your utter ignoring of that whole mechanism, the bot is compliant, spits out one line per command, can sit forever.
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 32: Stack Overflow!
mircea_popescu: sure, i'll be happy to look up what the thing should be in preference of your doing it. lessee.
phf: mircea_popescu: is there any reason there's no right shift in p? or there's some way to do it with what's there?
pehbot: asciilifeform: not yet
phf: cause you can do a ghetto left shift with 000 :>
phf: mircea_popescu: well, i thought he's got some minimalist tendencies, like left shift is done with a bunch of 0's and right shift is done with a combination of twig and rock
pehbot: asciilifeform: some actual text
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform !A help would be nice once you get around to it.
pehbot: phf: eg: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000
phf: !A [or rather ].1"#[ ]000#
pehbot: phf: or rather 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000
phf: yeah, that makes sense
pehbot: asciilifeform: this prints (but this is a comment) some text
pehbot: asciilifeform: this prints some text
pehbot: asciilifeform: .1.2+#[=]
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003=
mircea_popescu: and is it getting updated in step with the ffa publishings ?
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
mircea_popescu: nice. will make a great tool i expect, can reference bot in examples etc.
pehbot: asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
pehbot: asciilifeform: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000A
pehbot: asciilifeform: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000B
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002
mircea_popescu: !A .F00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000A.F00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000B-[=]#
pehbot: mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
pehbot: asciilifeform: [[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]
pehbot: asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Mismatched close-quote bracket !
phf: asciilifeform: hey when you adjust the filters, can you make sure manual spacing still works?
a111: Logged on 2017-05-16 01:36 asciilifeform: in other near-term lulz, a 'pbot' is in the worx, so that folx can play with various input->output pairs in-chan
mircea_popescu: there;s this whole pile of 2nd world "Cinema" made by 30second ad people.
pehbot: phf: foo 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
deedbot: pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
pehbot: asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
ben_vulpes: what i did for candi was to link a paste
pehbot: asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
mircea_popescu: the paste idea is pretty good, in that it takes the (unavoidable, btw) line issue away entirely.
phf: the nick is going to make a difference, it's 250 characters by the way
phf: asciilifeform: yes, but it's going to be shorter for mp
phf: yeah, it's also highlighted as bot on btcbase
pehbot: asciilifeform: you can put (whatever) [you] {want} here but orcgrams get dropped
pehbot: asciilifeform: take precedence over []
mircea_popescu: btw, you are aware the canticle is just history-of-cluny with the serials (and most of the good stuff) shaved off ?
mircea_popescu: "what if the northern part of new world was actually important and like, events happened here and shit ?~!?!?"
mircea_popescu: the ~only preoccupation of us aspiring writers since day 0
phf: mircea_popescu: i'm not, what is that?
mircea_popescu: phf the barbaric lands were slowly recivilised after the fall of the roman empire. the effort centered around this fortified monastery in gaul, and its satellites
mircea_popescu: (gaul was, in the estimation of the romans themselves, the better part of the empire, which is why most moved there)
phf: oh so it's the history of cluny, rather than "The History of Cluny"
phf: one is an accumulation of knowledge on the subject of history in your head, the other one is a written book of that title, that one, if one were so inclined, could track down and read :)
mircea_popescu: but if you feel like the reading, about ~any history of the benedictine order in the early history of europe (say 10th and 11th centuries) should prove an informative read.
mircea_popescu: there is A REASON "european civilisation" bla bla, and that reason is the remarkable stability introduced through unlikely means. a sort of humour.
mircea_popescu: should prolly paste his inferior lisp screencap in that early mac screen.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the important part in the actual history is that the abbey was de facto sovereign ~deliberately~, set up that way by the duke on purpose. i dun recall exactly the us retcon, but it was accidental if memory serves ? which is already a reduction, in my view.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-22 19:01 mircea_popescu: do they even give out tenures anymore ?
phf: it's not the case for canticle (where it is sort of accidental, in a sense that "everything's so fucked that nobody cares, but when they do we have Electric Light!")
mircea_popescu: in plain terms of the literary quality of the story, this approach seems to me weaker.
phf: but in all the derivative work soveirgnty is deliberate
phf: well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i expect the way these generally work is, starved copywriter threw some shit together while hungover. since it was bought he put a little more work into it later on.
phf: i sort of assumed (and that was sometimes topic of these derivative works) that mandate doesn't last more then a generation or two
phf: erm, never mind, "permission for sovereignty" , heh
mircea_popescu: without dispute it lasted for at least... hm, i think there's ten between berno and peter ?
phf: that's better track record than templars :>
mircea_popescu: they were major factor in why there even IS a papacy in the first place, though.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 02:51 esthlos: excellent. also, I feel your pain. every day I write in C, I swear I lose an iq point
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 02:57 esthlos: it seems specifically designed to reduce the intelligence of the programmer to what a manager can understand
mircea_popescu: but, do not give managers a black eye. i for one often can't understand c.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 04:32 phf: well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is
phf: i suspect the spectacular failure of his sword project is what sent him downspiral
phf: oh, he wrote something else besides seveneves?
phf: sounds like a decade update attempt to cryptonomicon
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 03:02 esthlos: elegant C exists, but the limits of the language the complexity it can handle without exploding into incomprehensibility.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 03:05 esthlos: even with small C projects I start to panic when I realise I don't know how it works anymore
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 03:09 phf: but then i can also understand the whole "back in my day" sentiment. common lisp certainly lets you write ~very sloppy~ code and get away with it :>
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 01:44 esthlos: fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest
phf: oh yeah, you mentioned this before..
phf: i would've remembered
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 03:28 asciilifeform: in other non-news, ben_vulpes yer ircbot thing dun work with znc. for the obvious reason of containing magicstring-expectation liquishit.
trinque: anyhow I wrote it; ben_vulpes added a patch.
trinque: nickserv is what it is; I didn't invent it
trinque: maybe we're not far from a sane p2p chat implementation
trinque: I admit to having wanted as little irc autism in my head as would make the thing go.
deedbot: revnja voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 04:45 mircea_popescu: diana_coman "in next chapter" < add "the"
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 02:57 phf: that would be a very gruesome science fiction narrative, if that was actually the case. a kind of strugatsky's roadside picnic :>
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 23:26 asciilifeform puts ^item on read-conveyor
mod6: will see if I can clean it up a bit more tomorrow.
shinohai: so far seems to be at least equal to the perl sins that only my confessor, mod6 knows of
☟︎ deedbot: aegis voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: And no cardboard houses! Does he read trilema?
shinohai: !!rate diana_coman 3 too much hard work to list, EuCrypt has helped me tremendously.
shinohai: !!v 83DBA74607120BBABFCE695D5917F7E27087B08CB5CC7B9D144D4C39D4E64EB3
deedbot: shinohai updated rating of diana_coman from 2 to 3 << too much hard work to list, EuCrypt has helped me tremendously.
BingoBoingo: And re: keeping up with chaintips - Quite a few big as ships lined up off short waiting for their turn in port.
shinohai: !!rate BingoBoingo 4 For services rendered to tmsr in LATAM in futherance of true isp and the rich documentation of his travails
BingoBoingo: And it is taking some getting used to going out to the river and not being able to see the other side. And also seeing two way ship traffic with... big ass ships
shinohai: !!v 19EE2D8B89B89D5087635711B3C3239D5C1C4D60D5573565D618CD9F879FF868
deedbot: shinohai updated rating of BingoBoingo from 3 to 4 << For services rendered to tmsr in LATAM in futherance of true isp and the rich documentation of his travails
BingoBoingo: Instead of slow river barges taking away the corn to serve as feedstock for who knows what chemistry
BingoBoingo: And guess who the wops beat in court: "Brothers Vincenzo and Giacomo Barbato named their clothing brand "Steve Jobs" in 2012 after learning that Apple had not trademarked his name. "We did our market research and we noticed that Apple, one of the best known companies in the world, never thought about registering its founder's brand, so we decided to do it," the two told la Repubblica Napoli. The Barbatos designed a logo that resembles
BingoBoingo: Apple's own, choosing the letter "J" with a bite taken out of the side."
BingoBoingo: Also the LISA operating system is supposed to be open sourced soon
shinohai: !!rate danielpbarron 3 #eulora Elder and merchant, operates rare ecu faucet. Bible markup project in #trilema-church
☟︎ shinohai: !!v 685D0D34746C79BF5BF2D0D508688B60D859C2DE35B954FC351CC4CBD50EC370
deedbot: shinohai updated rating of danielpbarron from 2 to 3 << #eulora Elder and merchant, operates rare ecu faucet. Bible markup project in #trilema-church
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 23:37 mircea_popescu is also happy at how diana_coman 's code veers towards literate style. you've seen this phf ?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14474.84, vol: 14159.22146288 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14349.0, vol: 52343.1796784 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 14647.1, vol: 4080.1562319 | Volume-weighted last average: 14391.4763725
BingoBoingo: In other pirate radio vs SOP lulz:
https://archive.is/AWcBV "When the agents inquired about the nature of Sidos’ relationship with Mr. Polynice, they asserted that they had not seen him in two years. When the agents asked about the unlicensed transmitter, the Sidos alternately refused to respond or claimed that no radio transmitter had been operated on their property since the 2012 in rem seizure... As had occurred during the Augus
☟︎ BingoBoingo: t 2015 site visit, the station had been taken off the air when the agents took further field strength measurements immediately after the Sido interview ended."
BingoBoingo: And the trb node weather from my perch appears to have improved substantially with regards to nodes at the chaintip since this weekend.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760601 << "Releases prior to release 1.0.2 had a bug that could lead to input being ignored and hence wrong message digests being calculated for input with repeated calls to sha3-update (see README file for details). Please upgrade as soon as possible, since this bug can lead to unintended collisions in generated message digests." and of course "The library should be portable across nearly a
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 12:03 shinohai: so far seems to be at least equal to the perl sins that only my confessor, mod6 knows of
mircea_popescu: ll ANSI compliant CL implementations with specialized versions tuned for implementations that offer unboxed 64bit arithmetic, unboxed 32bit arithmetic and for implementations with efficient fixnum arithmetic, i.e. requiring fixnums that can represent (unsigned-byte 16)."
☟︎ mircea_popescu: from "the people who shouldn't have computer access" gallery.
mircea_popescu: "PMSF IT Consulting is proud to announce its acceptance as a member of ASAM e.V.. As a long time user of ASAM standards, like XCP and A2L, we see the ongoing central role of ASAM as a provider for standards in the embedded domain and beyond, with a special focus on automotive applications."
mircea_popescu: in case you were wondering who's putting the bugs in your cars of the future.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 14:57 BingoBoingo: In other pirate radio vs SOP lulz:
https://archive.is/AWcBV "When the agents inquired about the nature of Sidos’ relationship with Mr. Polynice, they asserted that they had not seen him in two years. When the agents asked about the unlicensed transmitter, the Sidos alternately refused to respond or claimed that no radio transmitter had been operated on their property since the 2012 in rem seizure... As had occurred during the Augus
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 15:30 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760601 << "Releases prior to release 1.0.2 had a bug that could lead to input being ignored and hence wrong message digests being calculated for input with repeated calls to sha3-update (see README file for details). Please upgrade as soon as possible, since this bug can lead to unintended collisions in generated message digests." and of course "The library should be portable across nearly a
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> apparently arse technica starved for noosefodder << Aha, notice the throwaway blah blah minoritit afterthought!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 02:59 phf: i mean, if you read norvig's python snippets you can clearly see they are written by a very experienced lispers. you literally never see python like that in the wild, but yet there it is.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 15:30 mircea_popescu: ll ANSI compliant CL implementations with specialized versions tuned for implementations that offer unboxed 64bit arithmetic, unboxed 32bit arithmetic and for implementations with efficient fixnum arithmetic, i.e. requiring fixnums that can represent (unsigned-byte 16)."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nibble was a HALF BYTE! and a byte was REGISTER WIDTH. so no, it wasn't customarily 4, it was customarily half of 8 for as long as registers were 8. nibble today should be 32 bits.
mircea_popescu should put this in the very blog in question but plox take out that damned chicken clucking thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i understand why the sins of the flesh make this unavoidable. but it's still fucking wrong god damned it all to heck.
mircea_popescu: and why the fuck would you maintain it in a place which has no need to maintain it. ffa is free from said flesh.
mircea_popescu: but not on "byte" meaning anything other than what it does, which is to say... "how much the machine takes in at a time"
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 15:35 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760640 << would be interesting to see exactly how this 'bug' looked. but currently can't be arsed to unearth the old crud ( where even is it )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i very frankly expect exactly nothing to be done about it ; i'm just bitter and that's all.
BingoBoingo: Srsly, at least smoking provides social cover when you lack other vices
BingoBoingo: And plenty of pretty girls need to know who to ask for a light
mircea_popescu: reading the keccak lisp thing that unpleasant irk becomes inescapably evident : this is just fucking "advanced" rot 13.
mircea_popescu: "here's our list of 13s" "here's our other list of 13s"
mircea_popescu: here, might as well : in case anyone needs magic numbers, for lottery or w/e, you can just use ( 0 36 3 41 18) ( 1 44 10 45 2) (62 6 43 15 61) (28 55 25 21 56) (27 20 39 8 14
BingoBoingo pretty sure thread had, but under what key words...
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 18:13 asciilifeform: they are sides of the same triangle.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 18:10 asciilifeform: a 'secure prng' is fundamentally THE SAME animal as the 'secure hash' and the 'secure blockcipher'.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 15:47 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760654 << fucking annoying this imperial summarization style. "it had a bug" costs as much to say as "it had so and so bug". but nooooo, god forbid anything effectual ever occurs.
mircea_popescu: entirely chtonic civilisation, it copied more from the original socialists than just goebbel's radio playlist. it fucking copied the will-to-die, and substantially.
mircea_popescu: "maybe if i sit really still i cease to be ? no ? how about if i also close eyes ? still ? plug ears as well, how about then ???"
mircea_popescu: you'll ruin my idea of romanian difficulty and i'll end up going "what, you don't get this kindergarten fare?!?!" at poor innocent slavegirls.
mircea_popescu: (for les autres : defloration is another word for losing one's virginity. the woman's name being lorena, and her disposition deeply pubescent anxiotic (you should know what this is) which is beyond ridiculous in a 40yo not to mention hysterical given the amount of compensatory covers-for-impotence she engages in, pretending entirely without basis to be an actress, poetess and whatnot -- the nedeflorena name immediately clicke
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It turns out that Portuguese is making a strong case for third lang
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo once man takes ibovniki, man can not stop at arbitrary count.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-14 16:31 mircea_popescu: that's ok, the rule is 0 1 infinity.
BingoBoingo: The ordering is more one of prioritizing. No need to stop. At any number of languages, but the focus can shift. As time makes the spanish more comfortable, Portuguese is a natural next point of focus.
mircea_popescu: so give her a copy, correct the item she produces and there you go, she got a blog now.
mircea_popescu has long despaired of any hope anyone would produce text in some kind of proper format.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can put it through bash grindfer, make it be text.
mircea_popescu: the next article title will be "we shall now read anathem", if that wasn't obvious
mircea_popescu: please tell me hylaea is not a reference to the fucking futurists
mircea_popescu: "Science fiction author Neal Stephenson has become the "Chief Futurist" of Magic Leap, an augmented reality company"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dja know the group im talking of ? "pushkin should be thrown overboard the steamship of modernity" ?
deedbot: pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
pehbot: asciilifeform: helloworld
phf: asciilifeform: i know this one, it's unix!
phf: asciilifeform: serve event is a cmucl way of tracking streams of every kind (since no threading, repl mainloop is a reactor pattern). sbcl has just lifted the whole thing, but then never really redid the architecture
phf: so that's why you sometimes get an infinite error loop with fd-register somesuch when you abruptly lose connection
phf: can i fucking finish?
☟︎ phf: so instead of addressing the core machinery, they put these hooks all over the place, where some things are part of serve event, and some are not. anyway, you ran into the fact that 1.0.42 introduced a flag to socket-make-stream :serve-events, which is true by default. it was later changed to false
phf: but usocket probably defensively passes serve-events nil to make sure that "legacy" machinery doesn't kick in, because nobody knows about it, or wants to deal with it
phf: if you want all of your compatability layers to work, you are forced to run trunk of everything.
phf: (which is by the way not what i do, i just fucking fix. every. single. fucking. piece. of. quicklisp. packaged. code. i. get. my. hands. on. motherfuckers)
☟︎ phf: it's not added up to coherent whole yet. so far the conclusion is that compatability layers are evil, and that you basically have to maintain own versions of everything that abstracts your lisp implementation details
phf: it would be perhaps worthwhile to triangulate sbcl towards a common deployment platform
phf: and it is submarine with screen doors. it's possible that asdf in vpatches is the door through which the horror comes.
phf: (not to mention what i bring up all the time, that asdf itself is the horror now)
phf: one solution could be to, e.g. post cl-irc, but hard coded to a specific sbcl implementation. whoever wants to port it elsewhere (like cmucl or whatever) can just post a #-sbcl #+cmucl vpatch, etc.
phf: (fwiw ircbot is already sbcl specific, since it relies on a bunch of sbcl threading extensions, so pulling compat layer for cl-irc is a waste)
ben_vulpes: i started vendoring swaths of lisp code recently myself
ben_vulpes: while useful in some contexts, once phf said 'asdf is a pig with lipstick', could not unsee.
phf: ben_vulpes: note that older versions of asdf actually work. i've been running 1.369 in my cmucl, and it does require manually updating half of your asdf to remove various later extensions, but it works
☟︎ phf: 1.369 is 1548 cloc vs. 3.3.1 10789!
phf: there's actually some extensions that are not necessarily evil (like :email or :author in a defsystem), bulk of fail comes from test-op, that's not supported in old version, but that nobody uses test-op consistently at all
phf: also particularly gendered packages outright put #-asdf3 (error "requires asdf3") and ~usually~ it's because they silently rely on uiop, far's unix compatability layer
☟︎ phf: fare claims somewhere that he solved a gnarly dependency resolution bug in asdf, but the nature of bug is never revealed, and SAT is never mentioned (i suspect most bugs in asdf would be SAT related)
phf: sat as in satisfiability problem
phf: well, dependency resolution is a SAT problem at its core
phf: and there's probably no formal sat in asdf. i'm saying that bulk of dependency resolution problems would come from sat though
phf: v runs with a special case of sat solver. i don't understand which part of "asdf doesn't have a sat solver" and "sat is never mentioned" is not clear. i'm saying that whatever dependency resolution is always a special case of sat. you put some contraints on it (no cirlces, etc.) and then you can have special case solutions.
phf: v also doesn't solve all the problems that asdf attempts to solve (for example compilation dependency)
☟︎ phf: v relies on build systems to actually build
phf: so your entire makefile logic is outside of scope of v
☟︎ phf: for example one thing that i tried with my lisp workflow is to have the system automatically compile/load touched files in their order of appearance in a v patch. but the order here is explicitly linear, requires fiddling with patch order, and is definitely not how we use it now
☟︎ phf: also v doesn't recognize state. in a tree A->B pressing to A, then loading, then pressing to B, then loading is different than pressing to B right away and loading the result
phf: obviously not designed for that, but the assumption here then is that you're running a fresh instance for each fresh press, which is suboptimal for a lisp (this particular detail will likewise come up when v is run on an always-on system of any kind, be that a cuntoo or a lispm)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:16 phf: so your entire makefile logic is outside of scope of v
phf: lisps deal with freshly-pressed instances as well as anything else: by doing a clean restart. my point is not lisps, my point is that current solution assumes lack of state and delegates the problem to a non-v-tronic build system
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 02:01 asciilifeform: picture a kind of 'multiverse ada', where you dun call foo(bar), but instead foo:somepatchid(bar:somepatchid) etc, explicitly conforming to 'multiversism'...
shinohai: Ripple scam overtakes mETH in "market cap" O.o
☟︎ BingoBoingo: In other news NYC apartment fire that killed 12 being called deadlist since 1992 provinding ample fodder for 9/11 lovers
☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 17:35 phf: yo, modern sbcl!
mircea_popescu: here's a problem i perceive phf : you could guess about log(n) of my understanding of various things that interest me on the basis of reading trilema ; i could not guess epsilon of thge say your understanding of sbcl on the basis of reading whatever you provide voluntarily. i could glean it from this kind of interaction, but here's what that means :
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760839 ☝︎☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 17:32 phf: can i fucking finish?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 17:36 phf: (which is by the way not what i do, i just fucking fix. every. single. fucking. piece. of. quicklisp. packaged. code. i. get. my. hands. on. motherfuckers)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's more, if he gets married deep historical view is in danger of simply going away.
mircea_popescu: phf and if you don't share with heathens, make it so !!shelf returns a pile encrypted to my key for instance, nothing wrong with that.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "publish" means "form, and fix the form" not necessarily "share with cows".
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 02:58 shinohai: ah mircea_popescu lookup has been there a while, but i think i forgot to have pete_dushenski push it to his bots page updates.
deedbot: pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski not the "or addressed directly" rider either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing wrong with summary as is, so it'll change, still better an idea than a blank.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 18:59 phf: ben_vulpes: note that older versions of asdf actually work. i've been running 1.369 in my cmucl, and it does require manually updating half of your asdf to remove various later extensions, but it works
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:03 phf: also particularly gendered packages outright put #-asdf3 (error "requires asdf3") and ~usually~ it's because they silently rely on uiop, far's unix compatability layer
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:07 asciilifeform: v dun have a sat-solver!!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:14 phf: v also doesn't solve all the problems that asdf attempts to solve (for example compilation dependency)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:18 phf: for example one thing that i tried with my lisp workflow is to have the system automatically compile/load touched files in their order of appearance in a v patch. but the order here is explicitly linear, requires fiddling with patch order, and is definitely not how we use it now
mircea_popescu: is the entirety of this fiddling you going "i'm curious how this thing could work/break at the edges?" or is it rather "i wonder how i could run a v tree as an infrastructure node without reboots" ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 19:35 phf: lisps deal with freshly-pressed instances as well as anything else: by doing a clean restart. my point is not lisps, my point is that current solution assumes lack of state and delegates the problem to a non-v-tronic build system
mircea_popescu: but from a sustainability pow : eulora server currently restarts weekly ; not necessarily because it absolutely must, but because i deliberately did not want to provide a "continuous" item in this sense.
mircea_popescu: i can understand the fascination with "this orrery has been in clickety-clacking continuously since 1625", but let's point out that it relies on a) THIS orrery, as opposed to "constantly changing randomly pile of cogs" and b) it's a discrete mechanism, like the human heart. it takes a break every beat. essentially the problem has been hidden, by these, not resolved.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fuckgoats still is THIS orrery, rather than "hotswappable"
mircea_popescu: the point is that item either a) operates continuously, provided it is THIS item, ie, this specific collection of parts or else b) is stopped while beingt serviced, ie having a cog replaced. there's no clock that works while having its cogs switched around.
mircea_popescu: nor is there such a thing as triple bypass while running a marathon
mircea_popescu: nor is it reasonable thereby to expect "this lisp instance runs while a new press gets pulled in"
mircea_popescu: i thought it was re his difficulties in updating the machinery behind btcbase without downtime
mircea_popescu: i also seem to recall he didn't like it for some reason. anyways.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 20:09 shinohai: Ripple scam overtakes mETH in "market cap" O.o
a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 22:53 phf: yes, scp, screen, asdf. i had a v based deployment but i wasn't happy with it, so i'm trying to rethink it
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 20:26 BingoBoingo: In other news NYC apartment fire that killed 12 being called deadlist since 1992 provinding ample fodder for 9/11 lovers
mircea_popescu: seems like the pantsuit lost 90% of sqfootage per capita in the past three years, from ~10 to ~1.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 20:50 asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform , like complete idiot, went and thought... 'i can make a useful diagram! with svg ! which exists!' )
pete_dushenski:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-23#1757448 << it just so happens that i saw one in vancouver's gastown neighbourhood last month. not the most tuneful steam whistle and it looks far older than the 40 years of age it actually is, but the plaque did indicate that it was something of a technical innovation. looked like a simplified rube goldberg machine to me.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-12-23 16:38 shinohai suddenly wonders if pete_dushenski has ever seen those steam-powered clocks that are in Canada ....
pete_dushenski: can't have too many public clocks though. so much the more if they're technically novel.