a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 22:44 mod6: <+asciilifeform> blockheight ~= 60k or so << ah, bummer, no chain backup?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> worth a comparison << Aha someone steps up to duplicate my December 2016 to May 2017 experiment!
BingoBoingo: But yes, phf makefile mod powers my OpenBSD builds.
phf: i remember people wedging around there, but i didn't personally observe it
phf: that's a nice round number too, 168000
BingoBoingo: Assumed, dropping for other esteemed readers
a111: Logged on 2017-03-28 04:32 asciilifeform: mod6: imho manual knobs ~for unwedging~ are a fundamental mistake. nodes shouldn't be wedgeable, period. and the only use for a wedged node is to learn why it wedged and to make said scenario impossible in the future.
phf: i don't remember every suggesting anything remotely similar. my suggestion would be to debug it, and solve the problem, rather than "mp's fix somehow magically resolves it"
phf: well, if i were approaching this, i'd replay to 167998 or so, setup a script to ensure that every time i start trb it starts from that state. i would then see if on forward play it would wedge. i would then investigate what is the nature of wedging, and slowly instrument the code along the various paths to tell me where exactly it decides to stop doing the right thing, etc.
phf: split the current blocks, eat block until 167998, then on each restart copy the 167998 state folder over the settings folder
phf: if it consistently wedges at 168000 across various machines and settings then it's not a question of wild sewage
phf: you replay to 167998, you then let it run till 168000 on the network. if it doesn't wedge with that setup, than you have two possibilities. it is either a heisenbug, or you need to replay to an earlier block, say 167000 and let that run on the wild network, etc.
☟︎ phf: ~you can't reason about locks patch~
phf: until you can actually reproduce the nature of locks patch vs. block (or whatever wedges)
mod6: meanwhile, what openssl are you using?
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 05:36 assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 00:36:21; mod6: seems to be: 2c2314f353 VerifySignature failed ... invalid block=0000000000000a40136b height=168001
mod6: take it easy. just asking as it was indicated to be source of previous 168k wedge issue.
a111: Logged on 2015-07-23 01:10 mod6: we saw stuff like that before with the 168`001 Verify Signature fail too. most of the time it failed for us... the three of us who were independantly testing it. But sometimes, it'd pass. Maybe 30% of the time. I was pulling my hair out.
mod6: so run on linux then
mod6: I just rolled in, gimme some time to catch up and figure out whats what.
mod6: I'm confused, are you saying that you're not interested in making a Cuntoo then?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-04 23:13 mircea_popescu: right. so basically time exposed a broken box you had in your basement. happens to me all teh time.
mod6: Look. First off, no I don't believe we ever found the cause of this. I remember pulling my hair out trying to figure it out -- there are logs indicating as much.
mod6: I seem to remember this being specific to BSD, and in non-deterministic form. And looks like gernika for instance just simply resync'd and it seemed to not hit it again, for reasons yet unknown:
http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-08#1193289 ☝︎ a111: Logged on 2015-07-08 16:36 mod6: <+gernika> mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though. << good to hear though
mod6: I'd like to get to the bottom of this!
☟︎☟︎ mod6: Second, I'm not sure how you want to make a Cuntoo out of BSD... we should revisit that later.
☟︎☟︎ mod6: Also, this is a non-deterministic problem, which adds to the frustration. You have a good candidate machine, it seems, to help get this resolved though. I'll dig through your logs a bot.
mod6: This looks like exactly what we've seen before, where 168`000 was accepted just fine:
mod6: received block 000000000000099e61ea
mod6: SetBestChain: new best=000000000000099e61ea height=168000 work=243835201642261706754
mod6: ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
mod6: received block 0000000000000a40136b
mod6: ERROR: ConnectInputs() : 2c2314f353 VerifySignature failed
mod6: InvalidChainFound: invalid block=0000000000000a40136b height=168001 work=243841112905690411140
a111: Logged on 2015-07-23 02:37 asciilifeform: neh that's not 168001
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 09:18 phf: kiss from a rose … this is tmsr radio! i'm waiting from your calls.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 19:15 asciilifeform: midnight/'fish' dun work with the heathen shell either, i end up having to tar up whatevers and sftp'em in/out , takes 100x as long
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 19:27 phf: that memory is incorrect, the correct memory would be of ~you~ barfing at the then suggestion of supporting bsd :>
mod6: also a while back guruvan brought up the fact that when BIP 16 (P2SH) was put in was in or around this block? maybe this block exactly (need to confirm still). But if you decode these:
mod6: Perhaps this is something related to trying to handle the P2SH. Unsure at this point, but worth a look.
mircea_popescu: trinque re last para, what's wrong with you know,
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693444 ? basically replace "The user decrypts the ciphertext and returns the cleartext OTP to D, which relays it to T, meanwhile revealing it to L. T replies to D with either "OK" or "FAIL", and a transaction is complete." with "T sends hash(C) to L, encrypted(C) to D. The user decrypts the ciphertext and returns the cleartext OTP to D, which
☝︎☟︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-03 18:57 mircea_popescu: trinque can always hash any item that is long to check for conformity in audits.
mircea_popescu: relays hash(it) to T and L. T replies to D with either "OK" or "FAIL", and reveals (C) to L. L calculates hash(OTP) and compares it with what D sent."
mircea_popescu: this way L only knows C after T made a decision ; D only knows a C-candiate once user made a reply ; T never knows C-candidate.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-05 20:26 asciilifeform: what's there to inspect ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 03:43 phf: you replay to 167998, you then let it run till 168000 on the network. if it doesn't wedge with that setup, than you have two possibilities. it is either a heisenbug, or you need to replay to an earlier block, say 167000 and let that run on the wild network, etc.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3215.96, vol: 13865.65496821 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3223.6, vol: 33880.2826341 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3205.303486, vol: 19222.34260000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3215.649, vol: 9597.81464781 | Volume-weighted last average: 3216.62631681
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:21 asciilifeform: see, it may seem to mod6 that asciilifeform is simply being difficult, whereas what asciilifeform found was that WE NEVER ACTUALLY FIXED 168K
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:39 mod6: I'd like to get to the bottom of this!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you know that's pretty broken spanish even for my low standards,
BingoBoingo: When have trolls used any language with fluency?
BingoBoingo: When that happens it's not trolling! It's literate discourse!
BingoBoingo: "All your base are belong to us" << Trolling
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : kathy keeton treated her breast cancer with hydrazine sulphate, an idea she got reading penthouse (which she published)
BingoBoingo: "We captured your citadel and taken your women into bondage. They have celebrated rather than lamented the evolution of their situation" << Discourse
BingoBoingo: Trolling example is from meme, Discourse example is taken from a June 2021 Qntra piece
BingoBoingo: Meme is title of that particular Qntra piece
BingoBoingo: In other news Trump is pushing an immigration bill that would institute a point system with major points for speaking English. This is bullish for pinays.
mircea_popescu: more ladyboys less plumbers ? sounds like teh swamp's drainin'.
BingoBoingo pencils it into "to see" list, has something of an allergy to musical theater genre
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 479309 | Current Difficulty: 8.60221984436E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 479807 | Next Difficulty In: 498 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 2 hours, 22 minutes, and 13 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:40 mod6: Second, I'm not sure how you want to make a Cuntoo out of BSD... we should revisit that later.
trinque: in theory, the "profile" mechanism would allow for a tmsr ebuild tree that could build on multiple chosen platforms.
mircea_popescu: phf can you add a refby:name to logotron search ? it'd be equivalent to from:mircea "btcbase.org/log" but list the values rather than the references.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 12:58 asciilifeform: anyway if you actually read the log, would see sig verify failing repeatedly.
mircea_popescu: this failure mode exists, where node spends forever unable to distinguish between orphaned chain, because can't ever get to where it actually verifies a sig.
mircea_popescu: but if you say this isn't what's getting your fanless box...
mircea_popescu: the txn linked though isn't one of the usual suspects.
mircea_popescu: i don't specifically recall 168000-168002 being a heavy load in that sense
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's see some details. main chain block 168000 is 000000000000099e61ea72015e79632f216fe6cb33d7899acb35b75c8303b763 mined 2012-2-22 at 21:31 ; size 7.1kb
mircea_popescu: main chain block 168001 is 0000000000000a40136ba56d6b514769534831e9ba805fef4d122f6c8d6da51c 21.2kb
mircea_popescu: and finally 168002 is 0000000000000a08f0e6aa70d9f8b990c48c2d48c577393c73b9acb9a55d12cb also 28.6kb long, 61 txn
mircea_popescu: none of these are problematic in either the "new boltons to protocol" p2sh sense or size sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these are too small for that to be touched.
mircea_popescu: historically the problem is "o noes, orphan chain", but i have nfi who would be owning or propagating orphan chains at that height.
mircea_popescu: lol yeah, well, i would put it past "people themselves" to keep archives.
mircea_popescu: you understand the lock thing refers mostly to handling reorgs, it isn't historical count or anything.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is just poorly written allocates a potentially infinite number of locks as part of handling the last block.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i quoted the blocks by hash so you can check if those are the ones you're struggling with, as opposed to magicalorphans.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that'll be the day, free traffic on the supermation inforhighway...
mircea_popescu: amusingly, that'd prolly how comps would work if women made them originally.
mats: notbad, went out on a boat yesterday n thinking about whether to go to a casino to play holdem
mats: can't beat that on-site experience, secondhand smoke and all
mircea_popescu: mats i tried to go play at local casino. dumped my chips half hour in because i got this unbearable feeling im at a florida retirement home playing canasta with the inmates.
mircea_popescu: reason #5498509865409 to despise herdemocracy, "peace and human rights" bullshit : it makes poker games indistinguishable from mahjong.
mats: i don't follow at all
mats: costa rican poker is played by... retirees? and they're no good?
mircea_popescu: they're mediocre, neither amazing nor terrible. but they're old, and stupid, and lazy. and not the sort of person i want to be around at all.
mats: yeah, that sucks. i go to casinos because i enjoy the idea of robbing tourists, retirees, and chumps
mircea_popescu: if you rob them worth a coupla hundred an hour, which is probably an overstatement, you'd make about the same as a silicon valley "engineer".
mats: its a fantasy ofc, everybody catches a bad beat sooner or later - but on a good day over ten hours i might hit 25-30/hr
mircea_popescu: mats and if you live to be 60 doing this, you'll look back on a life of tedium.
☟︎ mats: i believe even top-tier pros struggle to do 50/hr consistently just grinding games - the real money is in tournaments
mircea_popescu: actually, the real money is in doing something else. the real sluts, the real errythings too.
mats: hmm, yes, adacryptopoker
mircea_popescu: at some past glory age poker was, at least mythically, the way to actually sit at the same table with people who matter, and thereby actually have some sort of access to the meaning of the world. these days...
mircea_popescu: strikes me as too close to "social worker" for comfort.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 81600 / 2087 = 39.0991854336368
mircea_popescu: (official numbers -- 81.6k is the average salary for sv intern, apparently ; 2087 the yearly work hours). turns out they make 40 bux.
mats: thats not very good after COLA. 1k/mo for two people to share 1bed apt in e.g. santa clara
mats: public transportation is GRIDS in sv, at least the san jose area, so... tack on car ownership costs too
mircea_popescu: lmao i was thinking, since when the fuck do indians care about stench.
mircea_popescu: mats yes, but intern can then progress to independent contractor / work for self and cut the costs to 0. this is what say 5 years' experience buys you. 5 years' experience in the casino buys you jack.
mircea_popescu: (this point, in either "intern can progress" or "sit in forum and access meaning" presentation, is the fundamental mechanism of both "rounders" and that "poolhall junkies" cheapo rehack of it : that the dude playing can decide the girl's future, a degree of magnitude above her own capacity. take that away -- it's not worth doing. and you sure as fuck ain't meeting the head of ny law firm socially, and play $X with him so he g
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but that was the glamor : "honey, you don't suck cock because you can't, not because you don't want to ; but even if you sucked cock, and even if you were extremely good at it, it'd still take you months to manage what i can do overnight if i fucking feel like it".
mats: in other news, there are killer intl air fare deals this year
mats: found a $500, one stop, round-trip ticket to beijing from boston
mats: during thanksgiving though. haven't decided yet
mircea_popescu: ask the author, or generally any "city planner" what are the wrong assumptions they hid in the nonsense ? they'll look at you like you're from mars. yet... 1. all people = all other people. there's exactly 0 concept of social hierarch. 2. all people == spherical cpus in a vacuum. really bitch, i'll keep track of your stupid grids, and CONNECT ? i'm not fucking connecting lol, wtf do i care where the bus is at.
mircea_popescu: "if all people were perfectly attentive, perfectly intelligent and perfectly dedicated to the task of making our plan work ; and if they were perfectly equal and perfectly convinced we should be telling them what to do in detail ; THEN here's a solution to a problem!"
mats: heh, i wrote GRIDS but really meant AIDS
mats: theres not really any kinda grid layout in sj, and bus routes are so awful that many employees take shuttles staged in the morning at local grocery store parking lot
mircea_popescu: there's 0 way to have functional transportation in a city of aspies.
mircea_popescu: their problem is that they all think they're important. such people can not transport ; they must stay put.
mircea_popescu: at home, yes every single last one dork out of the 20mn can think himself overpoweringly important. at least until the broadband craps out.
mircea_popescu: 1920s waitress would live in whatever accomodations she could find within walking distance of her bar ; and go to downtown like every other weekend and think this a major, awesome accomplishment. but 2020s waitress (aka "software engineer") exepcts to be able to travel all over the city each day. what, he's from brooklyn ? that shouldn't mean he can't work in the lower east side, what's he, some kind of slave ?!?!
mircea_popescu: and this is just you know, high level executives aka waitresses. if you look at 1920s rank and file, they lived in dorms within the textile mill complex. kinda like universities today, except you know, 30 to the room and with hall monitors turning off the lights at 8:30.
mats: i look forward to seeing 'hyperloop' in production, this should accelerate the death of vast road networks in usa
mircea_popescu: (itself a remake of japanese equivs.) worked remarkably well at home.
mats: yes, top claimed speed for hyperloop is about twice top french tgv speed
mircea_popescu: in any case they're not making the la to sf item for the quoted 5 to 15bn. boston's big dig, a project a degree of mangnitude smaller, ended up costing well over a trillion, and this is 1999 dollars. also taking five x the time, but we leave that ot the side.
mats: putting it in production will test the massively inflated suburban and urban property values
mircea_popescu: so i wouldn't worry -- the only way this happens is if the chinese do a us-equivalent of their plan to colonize europe, and front the coupla trillion needed.
mats: so that boston real estate looks more like... tokyo real estate
mircea_popescu: (there's been a long time train running boston to wash dc, reasonably fast, reasonably popular in the 80s. meanwhile gradually disused)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i have nfi what these folk are sniffing, but it must be some sort of heavily psychotropic mold infected their conference centers.
mircea_popescu: musk doesn't have 1% of 1% of the money he needs to build such a thing. wtf already.
mircea_popescu: the "buying russia" item was lulzy enough, but still, explainable in terms of ra ra ra. but this nonsense is simply demented.
mats: usg has generously provided musk with truckloads of cash, so, i find it probable he's not full of shit
mircea_popescu: the us does not have, even if it sold itself out, the cash to half-complete this.
mircea_popescu: there's an absolute limit turkey dollars put on "tower to the moon" efforts : if you have at most 100 turkeys you can commit, printing further pictures of a turkey on paper will not help you in your effort to build the "cart driven by 101 turkeys". because the 101th physically does not exist.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (we're not going to even go in discussions of low pressure airflow, which is a horror the wide-eyed proponents are not intellectually equipped to consider ; let's just simply talk in terms of "i can't get a plumber to fuck my wife the same week but i'll somehow get together workers willing to dig a ditch so and so long".)
mats: hmm, TIL 'chromeOS' is a gentoo since 2010
☟︎ mircea_popescu: but, usg corp "producing" item in the vein of linux with serials filed off is no surprise by now. no turkeys, no alternative.
☟︎ mats: better than ubuntu.
mats: tesla OS is ubuntu!
mats: looking forward to autopilot-induced crashes because some jokester taped malicious input to rear windshield
mircea_popescu: anyway, what was "the competitor" androidos ? centos or what ?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:39 mod6: I'd like to get to the bottom of this!
mod6: Don't think we ever pinpointed something though.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 04:40 mod6: Second, I'm not sure how you want to make a Cuntoo out of BSD... we should revisit that later.
mod6: <+trinque> in theory, the "profile" mechanism would allow for a tmsr ebuild tree that could build on multiple chosen platforms. << this in fact, would be pretty neat.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 15:30 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al : to be very specific, the wedged box is running a press of mod6's 0.5.4-release, with the only change being phf's bsd patch linked yesterday.
mod6: Anyway, I'm guessing that you did. As long as you have all of the 0.5.4-RELEASE patches/seals/keys you should be fine. you could be correct about some of the alterations for locks not taking on the bsd-side.
mod6: 'One broker said a mortgage-free homeowner with a house valued at £10m had taken out a fixed-rate loan of just under £2m to buy bitcoin, ...' ^
☟︎ jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3261.18, vol: 6943.54177204 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3262.5, vol: 17603.87212781 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3278.491958, vol: 13429.18030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3266.324, vol: 5630.55050734 | Volume-weighted last average: 3267.70842717
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 16:35 mircea_popescu: mats and if you live to be 60 doing this, you'll look back on a life of tedium.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:33 mircea_popescu: (there's been a long time train running boston to wash dc, reasonably fast, reasonably popular in the 80s. meanwhile gradually disused)
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:38 mircea_popescu: there's an absolute limit turkey dollars put on "tower to the moon" efforts : if you have at most 100 turkeys you can commit, printing further pictures of a turkey on paper will not help you in your effort to build the "cart driven by 101 turkeys". because the 101th physically does not exist.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:45 mats: hmm, TIL 'chromeOS' is a gentoo since 2010
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 20:46 mod6: 'One broker said a mortgage-free homeowner with a house valued at £10m had taken out a fixed-rate loan of just under £2m to buy bitcoin, ...' ^
a111: Logged on 2017-08-06 17:46 mircea_popescu: but, usg corp "producing" item in the vein of linux with serials filed off is no surprise by now. no turkeys, no alternative.