BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For quite a while now deedbot has been quit/joining right around 0:00 UTC
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 20:43:48 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For quite a while now deedbot has been quit/joining right around 0:00 UTC
lobbes: this time with fixed action lines
lobbes: though still puzzled why last clearsigned version didn't deed... I checked a few more times for sanity and the sig verified for me
lobbes: wonder if just because it is ~15 MB...
lobbes: ty for checking. Eases my paranoia a bit
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:42:16: <oida5> fan іѕ nഠt doing Allah iѕ dоⅰng
lobbes: hmm, okay I will inspect and report back
lobbes: just more to add to the 'python sux' pile I suppose (or perhaps just my coding sux pile)
lobbes: of course. pile exists after all!
lobbesbot: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:42:16: <oida5> fan іѕ nഠt doing Allah iѕ dоⅰng
lobbes: oh wow, yeah I'm seeing the bitrot in the ZNC logs I fed to the thing. Very weird. But ty for the list of indicies; this will help
lobbes: I'm going to do some manual cleanup of the ZNC logs that correspond to the indicies you mentioned at least. Noted on the 983234 stop point
lobbes: asciilifeform: good point. re: your "if 3s are 7s" example, I already see what you mean...
lobbes: As for *why* these have rotted so: I am not sure. My best guess is that it is because my current #e logotron does many copy operations per hour from the ZNC files (though this is just a stab in the dark; I really don't know if this would cause bitrot)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... )
lobbes: asciilifeform: re: that upstack Q, perhaps you are right. There was a link to some shithub source iirc
lobbes: in either case, re: upstack I'm going to take mp_en_viaje's advice and just genesis the eulora logger as-is. It is a good point that nobody has to use the genesis *as is* (and indeed, publishing today means I can look back on it tomorrow)
lobbes: asciilifeform: essentially, there's a ZNC logger and files. Then I have a cronjob that runs the heathen logs2html, then another cronjob that transfers these files to the /var/www/ side
lobbes: could be... hence I think mp_en_viaje is right: I'ma have to publish so the real doctors can help me dissect it
spyked: BingoBoingo, re. linux music player: I was using cmus and rhythmbox at the time (and before that I used "banshee", some bloatware written in C#/mono) and they both eventually cracked under the pressure, in different ways (segfault or hanging). so I fell back to more lightweight frontends for mplayer, e.g. mpv, and found out again that scriptability far surpasses the need for any GUI/TUI
spyked: and by frontend I mean, proggy that receives file as command argument and plays it -- in case of audio file, without spawning anything graphical
spyked also tried "mpd" once, but only managed to make system-wide config, no user-level; and iirc launching it required special privileges, so I eventually gave up.
spyked: asciilifeform, minor nitpick re snsabot: I see no difference in the www interface between CTCP actions (the /me thing) and normal replies. e.g. I would expect ^ to be rendered as "spyked also tried ..." instead of "spyked: also tried".
spyked: also, a matter of personal preference: I've grown used to the btcbase behaviour of links opening in a new window. is this desirable/annoying? does anyone else care?
mp_en_viaje: spyked, honestly i wouldn't support the distinction.
mp_en_viaje: and i always ctrl-click anyways so i don't notice ; but i suppose might be desirable for some ? though, why have it baked in when you have the ctrl key to make up your own adventure ?
mp_en_viaje: let links be links and ctrl-click them when you want a new window, why not.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 22:33:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't resist to ask, didja actually work through the ro, or relying on googlefish etc ? cuz if it's the latter, yer certain to step on some sharp nails
diana_coman: I also ctrl-click so didn't notice but I don't see the reason to bake in "new window"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 22:36:43 lobbes: wonder if just because it is ~15 MB...
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i have been taking them out from tlp for instance.
mp_en_viaje: wtf pile of eyesore and assorted sadness html spec turns out to have been. all sorts of dangling nonsense a la above, it's the one midden that'll say the least flatterinfg things about humanity to the future archeologist.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 11:03:43 diana_coman: asciilifeform: actions seem to show in logger as text said rather than in any way different; is that intended? I don't quite grok what's the thing with *nick then?
mp_en_viaje: wtf OTHER targets were contemplated such that target=n or target=new were both not good enough ?
diana_coman: hm now - should I have linked his answer rather than the start of the thread?
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, do you see value in maintaining the "ctcp" pile ?
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: myeah, to me all www looks like "big pile of chairs that nobody ever cleaned up at all either"
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: when trying to come up with a reason for it - no, nothing comes up really;
mp_en_viaje: it's basically a tumour grown upon irc protocol.
diana_coman: above it was more of a surprise at "why store it at all if it's not going to make any difference at all anyway"
mp_en_viaje: has this one visible tentac le here, otherwise does all sorta idioti things, i turn it all off on my clients
spyked: diana_coman, ty for the reference. btcbase does distinguish ctcp from the rest of msgs by... removing the ":" after the nick. I don't think it's a big deal either way, just noticed it while reading html log.
spyked: mp_en_viaje, that's a fair point, client behaviour of "open link" (click, ctrl+click etc.) should be a client-side knob.
diana_coman: ctcp does have the flavuor of "improvements by the crowd"
mp_en_viaje: there's dcc, which while useless at least has historical logic, tryna compete in the field of the time, file transfer. because ~anyone wanted irc wanted so as to sext
mp_en_viaje: but ctcp is just wikimedia-ism, stupidity designed by committee of ustards
mp_en_viaje: the Anon on trilema was for a few years genuine anon person, but then someone figured out the email, like in the satoshi incident later, so now it's in principle anyoen who knows about that.
mp_en_viaje: i dunno if the orig Anon still writes even.
mp_en_viaje: but what am i going to do, break it ? tis history.
diana_coman: it just seemed to me that Anon(s) was pouring so much effort into constructing all sorts of "he's bad" about anyone as soon as it seemed "safe" to do it that..well, maybe he finally gets the idea of pouring that effort into something more useful
diana_coman: historically it just about never goes that way, of course.
mp_en_viaje: the problem with daydreaming is that it's fundamentally uninteresting, even to the kids themselves.
diana_coman: but somehow they still seem perfectly able to go about it until they die (and apparently they don't die of boredom either)
mp_en_viaje: see, daydreaming as an activity is a switchoff, always there when... reality goes under a certain threshold. daydreaming is the backup girlfriend, the one you call when better plans for friday night failed.
mp_en_viaje: this kinda proves the "fundamentally uninteresting" point to my eyes.
mp_en_viaje: also explains why it never goes that way, like you say. if it's something you only do when you're poor, there's never going to be olympics of it -- those guys ain't poor.
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, so going by your paste, does ÷ crap out on your encoding covnention then ? it's an obelus
diana_coman: o.O ave1 your blog sez "spammers need not apply" to my comment
diana_coman: I kind of wonder what am I applying for, though!
diana_coman: ftr it didn't even have a link, just a plain sentence (too plain?)
mp_en_viaje: the item sounds like you got a diff comment in the spam queue.
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, and × aka c397 also ? these aren't THAT exotic are they ?
mp_en_viaje: whole thing seems to be mostrly me using the proper math symbols of mult and division. i R-epent ?!
mp_en_viaje: (i end up leaking these in because of other software written by finnicky people who don't like / or * because "there are correct signs for that")
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 00:00:51 asciilifeform: how thefuq did that even come outta anybody's keyboard tho !!
mp_en_viaje: holy hell how can i be the only one plagued by these.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 00:02:17 asciilifeform: or hm lobbes , can you elaborate re the internals of your thing ? does it put into wp at some pt , and ~it~ 'smartly' replaced % with ÷ and so on ??
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 00:04:32 lobbes: could be... hence I think mp_en_viaje is right: I'ma have to publish so the real doctors can help me dissect it
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 04:39:45 spyked: BingoBoingo, re. linux music player: I was using cmus and rhythmbox at the time (and before that I used "banshee", some bloatware written in C#/mono) and they both eventually cracked under the pressure, in different ways (segfault or hanging). so I fell back to more lightweight frontends for mplayer, e.g. mpv, and found out again that scriptability far surpasses the need for any GUI/TUI
mp_en_viaje: in fairness : winamp is like ida -- people who actually need it, end up running windows FOR it
mp_en_viaje: in other news, holy shit spyked that daimon carcass is sad. whole thing fucking became an epitaph of derealisation. "gândește-te așa: dacă azi ai asculta Mafia pentru prima dată, te-ar impresiona atât de tare încât te-ai duce la un al doilea concert?" ; "mă simt oarecum … scos din schemă. Watching from afar, vorba francezilor. Zbaterile locale devin maxim amuzante. Vin firme noi pe piața din Timișoara, îmi inundă inboxul pe Linked
mp_en_viaje: IN recrutorii. Privesc ușor abulic, „așa, și?”. Se zbat cei din partidele noi să scoată orașul și țara din rahat, chiar fără voia lor. Este amuzant, dar nu mă angajează."
mp_en_viaje: "oh, the notre dame burned down, huh", vorba francezilor.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: it's "amusing", right? that "oh, how funny you are trying to do something, how entertaining" is such great heights of being great, I can't even
mp_en_viaje: that guy was eminently ALSO capable, in the of-this-list sense fo capacity. he wandered off on his own power, there was no "meet mp" moment iirc. but there's inescapably, overpoweringly, a difference between the daimons (one of the first trilema participants, back in 2009), and the phfs (as it happens, the most recent "victim" of my "abusive" approach to disreality) of the world, and nicole on the other.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, with amusements like that, who even needs strychnine anymore.
ave1: diana_coman: It seems one of your comments ended up in the spambox. Could you try again?
diana_coman: quite; for lack of anyone giving them a good beating when they are so amused, grrr.
mp_en_viaje: why, so they can be "in the hospital" with "a sepsis" ?
ave1: I am sorry, somehow between all the spam of "I like your writing style" it got eaten.
mp_en_viaje: Saturday we flew to Ukraine << roflmao wtf, we missed each other by a week then ?
ave1: mp_en_viaje: Pics made smaller, was not intentional
ave1: mp_en_viaje: Yes, although we travelled on to Vinnitsa right away and I'l be visiting Kiev for 2 days end of August
mp_en_viaje: let them figure out how to grow girls that don't look like little boys.
ave1: Yes, they all look like 16 year olds
mp_en_viaje: i didn't mind it so much twenty-odd years ago, but meanwhile apparently it's become intolerable.
ave1: There seem to be 3 states; 16, with child, old
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 17:09:12 diana_coman: ah, ah; if you want it there, I can add it (tomorrow though), sure; meant to ask: why no author field in your manifest?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: it turns out I don't even usually have flask and psycopg2 on my machines
diana_coman: in fairness, I don't use python much - last time I used it was years ago for generating the Eulora cookbook aka a bunch of static html pages from various data
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 07:12:56 mp_en_viaje: in other news, holy shit spyked that daimon carcass is sad. whole thing fucking became an epitaph of derealisation. "gândește-te așa: dacă azi ai asculta Mafia pentru prima dată, te-ar impresiona atât de tare încât te-ai duce la un al doilea concert?" ; "mă simt oarecum … scos din schemă. Watching from afar, vorba francezilor. Zbaterile locale devin maxim amuzante. Vin firme noi pe piața din Timișoar
spyked: tru imaginar." which looks like the main issue: while scrolling on "fb feed" back in 2014, /me felt how he was becoming dumber.
spyked: hm, I think he was on #t at some point tho?
snsabot: spyked: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 04:40:45 spyked: and by frontend I mean, proggy that receives file as command argument and plays it -- in case of audio file, without spawning anything graphical
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 06:08:14 diana_coman: I also ctrl-click so didn't notice but I don't see the reason to bake in "new window"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 06:22:11 mp_en_viaje:
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927780 << I do not expect that's his blog ; item is work of (relatively) well known internet lulzcow, one David Futrelle, a one-time pick-up artist / big man leadership dood meanwhile turned on the other side of the "BUT OBVIOUSLY, do we still have to DO this" cvasi-debate.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 06:13:12 mp_en_viaje: it's basically a tumour grown upon irc protocol.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 07:03:03 mp_en_viaje: in fairness : winamp is like ida -- people who actually need it, end up running windows FOR it
diana_coman: spyked: fwiw re daimon - he came in and asked me for a rating years ago as if it was a village and I should know it was "him"; once I figured out which "Alex" he was, I rated him; then even pulled and pushed him to try eulora - he resisted it and never made it.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 05:59:50 spyked: asciilifeform, minor nitpick re snsabot: I see no difference in the www interface between CTCP actions (the /me thing) and normal replies. e.g. I would expect ^ to be rendered as "spyked also tried ..." instead of "spyked: also tried".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 07:24:23 mp_en_viaje: that guy was eminently ALSO capable, in the of-this-list sense fo capacity. he wandered off on his own power, there was no "meet mp" moment iirc. but there's inescapably, overpoweringly, a difference between the daimons (one of the first trilema participants, back in 2009), and the phfs (as it happens, the most recent "victim" of my "abusive" approach to disreality) of the world, and nicole on the other.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 10:37:04 spyked: hm, I think he was on #t at some point tho?
mp_en_viaje: refered to as "a soul" when contrasted with that drawing of replicants, or "theorems to prove" when discussing the lost to nativity.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 10:36:26 spyked: tru imaginar." which looks like the main issue: while scrolling on "fb feed" back in 2014, /me felt how he was becoming dumber.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:02:39 mp_en_viaje: 3) the whole of it was always hanging out with the cool people. i don't mean, "cool", as in, swag. i mean cool as in david lynch quote above, dork bought a 12 room house for $3500 in th worst gangland he could find for his wife and newborn kid and lived there, "the fear was palpable"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 10:43:46 asciilifeform: if mp_en_viaje et al have strong opinion on subj, i'ma make it a knob
mp_en_viaje:
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927932 << holy hell, i'm not equal to that task. besides ctcp and dcc, there's even a microsoft-led attempt at embrace-and-extinguish from the 90s (it went nowhere) ; there was a broadly accepted pantsuitization of irc cca 2005 ("isupport"), various nsa-sponsored nonsense ("dancer", "hyperion", "protoctl")...
mp_en_viaje: part of them are baked in, freenode runs ircd 3
mp_en_viaje: it is entirely possible feedbot gets kicked because of trying to ping while sending
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, laugh but it's the model im contemplating re eulora
mp_en_viaje: just... there's the obvious cut that the server dpesn't specifically care whether ny client is up or down ; yet each client cares whether server exists or doesn't. well... so to the victor go the spoils then, let the curious ask.
mp_en_viaje: what i;m saying is that server-ping is utterly misdesigned.
mp_en_viaje: yeah, makes sense. as in -- i can understand the fungal path
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, dj is a peculiar lifeform, kinda dwells on a sort of cognitive surfboard, no time to learn anything
snsabot: Logged on 2018-04-18 21:58:18 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : i can't recommend the dsc-rx100 quite warmly enough. it's a splendid sony compact with zeiss lenses that's easily the best camera i ever saw.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, mid2000s very far from early. early ro net was you know, mid 90s.
mp_en_viaje: ~80% by mass people hooking up on irc, iirc.
mp_en_viaje: 90s folks were working for microsoft by 2001.
mp_en_viaje: that was more substantially the 2nd ro internet generation, late 90s to mid 2000s
mp_en_viaje: then sometime around 2004 or so the ro bureaucracy started getting online, resulting in the usual shitfest, "online publications", all the pretense to "the guardian" and "new york times" etc.
mp_en_viaje: finally everyone reached the same bottom, so there's little point in discussing romania apart from yurp
mp_en_viaje: you know the fucktards in minsk ~actually asked me for id~ ?!
mp_en_viaje: what the fuck do these people think a casino is.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, in my country you can just take the money and leave.
mp_en_viaje: lol diana_coman breeding electric engineers.
mp_en_viaje: i used these to great effect once, was on trip to serbia with then very recently enslavbed hanbot, proceeded to extract a few hundy out of the machines by monte-carlo-ing them out of their engineering assumptions. happened to be more than the whole weekend stay cost, gave her great story to rely the greatness of her master.
mp_en_viaje: nowadays they don't even PERMIT monte carlo, the new (transparently java) craps have like 10-15-20-25 four options for a bid sort of thing
mp_en_viaje: after seeing the line-of-cabs edifice of socialism this doesn't even strike me as unlikely
mp_en_viaje: i really like that retarded-gnome-tower tbh
mp_en_viaje: kinda makes the point about just how fucking dumb the kids actually are.
mp_en_viaje: to protest "capitalism" and "the consumerist culture".
mp_en_viaje: "its world" being even the reason these fucks haven't yet starved ; but w/e.
mp_en_viaje: the euro retardkids mostly complain that industry still exists.
mp_en_viaje: honestly i never followed the tardeluge that closely, somehow only ugly chicks live in the core. hotties universally peripherical.
mp_en_viaje: ~only known way to not have hobos is by forced labour.
mp_en_viaje: georgetown folk should have instead lobbied for "right to put any hobo found in driveway to work for the day". then -- subway could've brought all the hobos it wanted.
bvt: asciilifeform: there is another thing that i just noticed that different between phf's logger and yours: single quote (') is encoded as ' in phf's logger, and as &apos in yours -- and &apos happens to be totally broken in links graphical mode (links -g). i can fix this on the links side, but i wonder if this is intended/acceptable behavior
bvt: mp_en_viaje: i think there are two aspects: 1. readability (whether readers would be able to understand what is going on; in that vpatch the changes are local enough); 2. atomicity (whether someone would ever want to have one fix without the other; here my position is much weaker -- perhaps someone would want to have a crash on empty vpatches?)
mp_en_viaje: to be sure i think your patch is fine as it is.
bvt: there is also an aspect of potential future re-signing work on regrinds, which forces bigger vpatches, but imo the first two are more important
bvt: well when i was re-signing another vtools vpatch at phf's request (for keccak regrind), i did the full re-testing as when releasing it the first time, to make sure that everything is ok.
bvt: and i know that when re-signing multiple vpatches, i would have done the same thing individually for each vpatch.
bvt: maybe that's too much testing for re-signing, i dunno.
mp_en_viaje: i just don't understand what two things we're comparing.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, typical tropes of oldwoman fiction.
bvt: in my workflow, each vpatch individually receives full press-build-test cycle; more smaller vpatches can make this process a bit longer and tedious.
bvt: but again, i think the first to points are more important; the third one has less priority (at least for me).
bvt: the two things for comparison -- less total number of vpatches at cost of vpatch size, or more vpatches, but smaller ones?
mp_en_viaje: if you do a total of 100 unit tests, does it matter if you do them in sets of 9-11-9-11 for 10 patches or in sets of 23-27-23-27 for 4 patches ?
bvt: so far i've been doing everything manually. for 10 vpatches, i would start automating the process. typicall i'd run full test set for each vpatch
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 16:44:50 bvt: asciilifeform: there is another thing that i just noticed that different between phf's logger and yours: single quote (') is encoded as ' in phf's logger, and as &apos in yours -- and &apos happens to be totally broken in links graphical mode (links -g). i can fix this on the links side, but i wonder if this is intended/acceptable behavior
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 11:04:34 asciilifeform: hrm anybody else see that spurious 0x01 ?
bvt: asciilifeform: can you try curl -s logs.nosuchlabs.com/log | grep --perl-regexp '\x01'
BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> BingoBoingo, typical tropes of oldwoman fiction. << Typical tropes in a particular case that have high lulz potential Q3-Q4 of next year when North Argentina recycles
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 17:39:54 bvt: so far i've been doing everything manually. for 10 vpatches, i would start automating the process. typicall i'd run full test set for each vpatch
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-12 18:08:25 asciilifeform: nobody has said anyffin re the checkerboard, i'ma keep it as stands then unless someone reports that it makes eyes bleed
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-11 18:56:38 mp_en_viaje: whenever they're linked
mp_en_viaje: ok, but you can have the logger blow the cache for the www
snsabot: Logged on 2018-08-12 11:20:24 asciilifeform: ( 4x, as large as can be had. )
mp_en_viaje: www reconstructs it next someone calls that url.
mp_en_viaje: but they share a db and a filesystem, and are on same box.
mp_en_viaje: so then that's why not make them same proggy
mp_en_viaje: but it makes perfect sense to make them same unit, and make multiples of the complete unit if need be for reliability. it makes anti-sense to create "across-box" db edges, and try and maintain the nonsense army of unlilely units that don't work separately anyway
mp_en_viaje: while it's sensible to have www and logbot separate programs, it makes stupid to have them on separate boxes.
mp_en_viaje: or separate altogether, either way really.
mp_en_viaje: point being, some duplication will hurt ~nothing anyway. you can keep them as they are, just drop the spurious design constraint
mp_en_viaje: then you can have logbot invalidate cache and wwwtron construct cache and happy life.
mp_en_viaje: anyone recall the trilema article (maybe comment ?) where i was explaining that choice's not constructive, one gotta pick A-or-B or else C-or-D, can't pick imaginarily A-or-D because D doesn't exist in a system with A.