mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski and missing the "as mp said back in january 2015" bit, of course.
ben_vulpes: of particularly amusing note is that their payment-accepting system is broken.
guruvan: "Twenty megabytes downloaded plus twenty megabytes uploaded every ten minutes is about 170 gigabytes bandwidth usage per month " << gavin doesn't want well connected nodes I see
mod6: ermahgerd, gotta go blow some snow again.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: that's probably still another 1.5 years off. you're usually 3 years ahead of the curve, neh ?
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 20:57:51; thestringpuller: aha. so pretty much ~only~ for labratory use as stated.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0005679 = 2.4988 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 21:04:13; ascii_butugychag: phf: O(N^2)
mircea_popescu: "I could probably write a book about the depth and complexity of events of the past year, the lessons I've learned and the personalities I've dealth with. However, at this point it's all history, and I've always been more interested in planning the future than dwelling too much on the past." << no, he couldn';t write a book. not anymore than boshiman could build a city on all the land he walks. moreover, orc imagines h
mircea_popescu: istory is a byword for dead and buried, which ties into why he will never be able to write a book.
pete_dushenski: "Along the way, we accumulated a mess of legal and corporate complexity that has made it difficult to do anything constructive with Armory's intellectual property." <--> "You think you want to take dollar investment, you think you want to make a non-Bitcoin company ? Think again. Think long, think hard, and start with this : what makes you think a fiat company is even possible anymore ?"
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Derps derping their way out is bullish for a 2013 replay. All we need now is RealSolid returning with yet another altcoin scam.
pete_dushenski: speaking of animal behaviour, www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
pete_dushenski: "Many of the locksmith lead gens are run by Israelis, and Avi learned their modus operandi by working for them. When he landed at La Guardia Airport in 2008, he wanted to work with computers, the field he had trained for in Israel. But it was the height of the recession, and he did not have many options."
pete_dushenski: "Mr. Alverado said those fake buildings were necessary because getting to the first page in Google results now took ingenuity and cunning. “You have no idea,” he said, sounding a little weary when asked about competition. Israelis were his toughest rivals, he said, and they had instilled a kind of awe in him. “I can tell you point-blank, they are freaking smart,” he said. “I really admire them.”"
pete_dushenski: this is what happens when adlais without homes and consumers without wots meet in america.
pete_dushenski: off to pickup new specs. if i'm not back this evening, i'll be around under 'pete_d_out' over the coming days. cheers!
gribble: Current Blocks: 396574 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 577 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 5 hours, 21 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
felipelalli:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395886 << thank you mircea_popescu - the article I am writing starts with a quote made by your PR translated to Portuguese: "Se você não tem uma conta WoT você não faz parte do ecossistema Bitcoin. Esse é o critério, não importa o que você possa achar. É onde todos olham, não importa o que alguma rede social tem dito pra você. Se você não está no WoT você não está no
☝︎ felipelalli: danielpbarron, BingoBoingo etc. you guys convinced me to remove the win32shit stuff. I'll remove all files, actually.
BingoBoingo: felipelalli: I mean you can leave source for the old win32 stuff so the lazy but desperate can still try building it. Think of it like putting the icecream shop at the mall on the top floor so fat people gotta choose icecream or using stairs.
felipelalli: BingoBoingo, ahahh yes. But there is no special code to WIN32 actually in Java. The "exe" was just a wrapper. But if the guy can't execute a jar in Windows he just won't be able to use WoT anyway.
felipelalli: I'll put a link to source code and in Github I'll put the jar in "releases" section. I think it is better in this way at least while the app isn't so mature yet.
BingoBoingo: felipelalli: Maybe change the license on the software to: "You do not have license to use this code unless you translate the Java Bytecode to Fortran 95"
mircea_popescu: felipelalli the reason you're getting so much grief is that it's not clear how your premises work. i mean i get it, you want to help people, and teach them about otc and so on. this is one thing. but i mean what did you do, i don't follow, reimplement gpg as a java thing ?
felipelalli: mircea_popescu, thank you mircea to understand my motivation. Yes, I tried to help. The "magic" to make the thing easy was to derivate a bitcoin keypair from the username+password using scrypt. I understand this can be unsafe if the user uses a bad password, but like you said, it is just to let the lazy people to taste the power of wot.
felipelalli: but yes, it's not the safest thing anyway!
felipelalli: mircea_popescu, in java and it uses scrypt.
BingoBoingo: Just enough rope for a person to shoot themself in the foot when they get surprised that rope does that
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah eventyally got to the rest of the log.
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 23:36:26; pete_dushenski: y still can't buy 10% of asciilifeform's time nor 10% of mod6's. fancy that :)
Carli-: asciilifeform: Armory has "offline" wallets that you can spend from. How do you do that with bitcoin-qt?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The point of Armory was making people with too much RAM and CPU for their own good feel speshul
BingoBoingo: Or at least that was the point when it loaded the whole blockchain in RAM
BingoBoingo: Because at one point loading the whole blockchain into RAM was an idea that didn't give most people pause.
Carli-: asciilifeform: With Armory, your private keys never touch an onine computer. Also has "Deterministic" wallets.
☟︎ assbot: Carli- is not registered in WoT.
Carli-: asciilifeform: And you can run Multiple wallets at the same time. Is there a way to do that with bitcoin-qt? I am trying to figure that out
Carli-: asciilifeform: which wallet do you use? or are there any other wallets, that can do: Deterministic, Offline transactions, Multiple Wallets ?
shinohai: I said this today in pm with mod6: 17:37 shinohaiPlease no moar qt
guruvan: electrum - but to operate properly, you'd run your own server & node Carli-
guruvan: asciilifeform: you have HD in trb?
Carli-: HD means Deterministic.
guruvan: deterministic key derivations
Carli-: asciilifeform: so you can back up your wallet to a piece of paper once, only 18 words long is the "seed"
Carli-: asciilifeform: i think it is something like this, not sure: SHA256(Seed + 1), Sha256 (seed +2) etc...
adlai: this is the whole point of bip32 - backups which only need to be stolen once
adlai: Carli-: lol, you should probably read the bip if you're that excited about it
Carli-: asciilifeform: is there something wrong with BIP32?
adlai: there are some use cases for it, sure. but there's a reason that they weren't automatically merged in despite being invented by the same people
adlai is not mathemagician enough to know how, but the construction is ~supposed~ to prevent this
Carli-: asciilifeform: yes, i think one of the problems: if someone has 2 of your Private keys AND your Master Public Key, they can find ALL of your private keys. IIRC
Carli-: are there any other problems with bip 32?
phf: i thought gpgme spawns a child process and keeps it around. still pushing all that data around is expensive..
adlai: Carli-: primarily you should understand that the main goals of bitcoin development (in this channel, at least) are to minimize the amount of moving parts
phf: quoted 14s is from my graph thing, and im using gpgme
Carli-: asciilifeform: well, the point is to keep your private keys on a Air-gapped computer offline forever
adlai: this is an operational concern. the bitcoin node software doesn't even need to know what a private key is!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5943 @ 0.00056983 = 3.3865 BTC [+]
Carli-: asciilifeform: How do you do Deterministic or Offline Wallets, without weakening the crypto?
adlai: asciilifeform: would it still be correct to say that there is no intent that people use trb as a wallet? or at least, use the same trb as a network node and a wallet node?
trinque: I am as we speak making deedbot use it exactly as such
Carli-: asciilifeform: isn't "deterministic" kind of similar to what OTR, or Axolotl does?
adlai: Carli-: again, the point here is to simplify bitcoin to the minimal required functionality. feature creep, even if they're useful features, is to be avoided.
trinque: lest I shorten my days on earth trying fixing abominations like pybitcointools or btcd
adlai would be reminded of travelers' checks, if he were old enough to have ever seen one
adlai: Carli-: out of curiosity, how did you find this place? people usually have some inkling of its philosophy when they wander in...
Carli-: asciilifeform: cool, is there a guide that you recommend to do " pre-generated tx" ?
adlai: and why is your hostmask 'garza'
Carli-: i saw a blog that linked to this channel, adlai
adlai: and it didn't scream "these people hate javascrypto" at you?
Carli-: adlai: i was just responding to his post about Armory here, plus i am interested in "offline" transacations, and Multiple Wallets Simultaneously.
☟︎ mod6: asciilifeform: any objections to me replacing those vpatches on the mirror now, or should I wait for you to give them a try first?
adlai: Carli-: well, you can keep your wallet(s) on an offline computer, and only send the addresses around on the internet - using any program.
trinque: mod6: I just built 99996 plus funkenstein's importprivkey patch btw, bout to give it a go
Carli-: adlai: How do you make a transaction while keeping the wallet offline?
adlai: Carli-: you build the tx on the online node, transfer it across the airgap, sign on offline wallet, transfer back.
Carli-: adlai: is there a guide, that you recommend for that?
adlai: Carli-: not really, i don't think this is the same kind of procedure as googling three-ingredient brownies
phf: where does wallet put its transactions? mempool?
shinohai: can confirm mod6 's patches work well
mod6: yah, shinohai tested these for me today. seemed to work for him.
mod6: asciilifeform: ok cool thx.
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 01:05:15; Carli-: asciilifeform: Armory has "offline" wallets that you can spend from. How do you do that with bitcoin-qt?
mircea_popescu: what distinction do you do there ? so you sign the txn on one system, and dump it as a rawtx on another. this is a big deal somehow ?
mod6: i'll also update the graph while im at it.
mircea_popescu: simple "offline" qt : have two talk to each other, inspect the interface, extract tx, dump it to printer.
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 01:07:57; Carli-: asciilifeform: With Armory, your private keys never touch an onine computer. Also has "Deterministic" wallets.
mircea_popescu: "Cold storage was innovated by the Armory Bitcoin wallet. Armory provide a first-of-its-kind interface for easily managing offline wallets for true cold storage. "
adlai is still curious about the 'garza' hostmask
BingoBoingo: Armory's biggest selling point was a "badass" name it could use to hook n00bz.
Carli-: mircea_popescu: iirc, the only thing that "touches"-- you can burn a CD/USB (qrcode?) of the transaction from the offline wallet. Also, it lets u run Multiple Wallets at the same time-- is there a way to do this in bitcoin-qt?
Carli-: BingoBoingo: what do you mean "pipe"?
BingoBoingo: In a useful OS you can | things all over the place
adlai: Carli-: have you ever heard of "feature creep"? being able to specify a feature, which is related to an existing program, doesn't mean the same program should include that feature
Carli-: BingoBoingo: yes, but you want minimal contact for the airgapped machine. so some people recommend burning CD's
Carli-: adlai: yes, i know feature creep
BingoBoingo: And the best part is | works very well offline
phf: "the later models were suposed to have been designed by other screamers"
mircea_popescu: by now the gap is so large people can't even grasp it.
mod6: ok mirror is updated. i've pulled, pressed, compiled and am now running with all the latest.
mod6: gl, let me know if anyone hits any snags.
mod6: the graph has been updated as well.
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 01:32:11; Carli-: adlai: i was just responding to his post about Armory here, plus i am interested in "offline" transacations, and Multiple Wallets Simultaneously.
mircea_popescu: maybe not as self-combustingly insane as the Bitcoin notion of "accounts" , but still.
mircea_popescu: lmao people are dating on the basis of hating fat people ?
BingoBoingo: When divorce comes it makes allotting fault easier. "Relationship was built on lies, why else would she get fat after declaring her hate for it"
assbot: BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No | closed 4 days 2 hours ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1VKaf7t )
TomServo: I've finally got a node past the wedge, and there was much rejoicing
assbot: BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No | closed 4 days 2 hours ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1QdP60r )
TomServo: re: the conversation of logging earlier, I tend to launch bitcoind within a tmux session and have seen errors dumped to console after a hang/crash
TomServo: if these are also dumped to debug.log, I'm a dope and missed them
TomServo: but i'm probably just relaying the blatently obvious
shinohai: tmux is my friend for keeping it stable in stuck blocks
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform is so much more chatty at the new job
ben_vulpes: this is like two weeks straight of kilo+ logline days
phf: so in my gossipd attempt i'm basically just slinging gpg packets over the wire. have a little state machine that reads/validates openpgp packets from the wire. that doesn't work for streams though.. (in before eww)
mod6: <+TomServo> I've finally got a node past the wedge, and there was much rejoicing << Rejoice!
mod6: In regards to the above email section 0x04: To test this, one can simply grab polarbeard's vpatch and sig and drop them into place, then try to press the entire tree. This should hault throwing an error since the actual output hash does not match the ~expected~ output hash.
mats: looks like garza hostname belongs to a vpn
TomServo dusts off Applied Cryptography.
TomServo: "My favorite algorithm is IDEA. ..yadda .yadda.. Barring extraordinary cryptanlyic news tomorrow, I am betting on IDEA today."
shinohai: mine using only your dick using our unique rot2 algo
TomServo: asciilifeform: was it extraordinary news?
gernika: mod6: testing out v99995. I notice that if I attempt to press a non-existant v.patch, there is no error, and it goes ahead and presses *something* (seems to generate the full source in the target dir). Not sure if this is intended behavior or not.
mod6: so you ran something like `./v.pl p v foobar non-existing.vpatch` and then something ends up in foobar?
mod6: ok, thanks, i've been working on a fix for a similar thing, actually, which is related to a similar test by ben_vulpes -- but haven't completed it yet.
mod6: I'll keep this in mind as a test case.
phf: asciilifeform: Ангстрем-3?
mircea_popescu: <TomServo> I've finally got a node past the wedge, and there was much rejoicing << wd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> second call for least-hated block cipher ??? << fucking the least ugly girl at the party means you'll do a lot of uglies.
mod6: so yah, if i can get something figured out for that bug, maybe there will be a beta2 patch.
mod6: but not for at least a week. i need some time to look into that and to let people test the beta patch. i want to get these resolved so we can move on.
mod6: thanks for your patience, Mr. P. & all.
mircea_popescu: where the fuck do these idiots find all the roadkill already.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6506 @ 0.00056983 = 3.7073 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4761 @ 0.0005701 = 2.7142 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.0005701 = 5.3874 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00056888 = 1.2231 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: mircea_popescu: qntra report sums to 8969 shares, but you sent me 384 more?
jurov: also "18`706 S.QNTR shares issued this period." in trilema article is completely off, and total number of issued shares I know about is only 182`579
jurov: or 183k or something like that (will doublecheck later)
jurov: oh i see "MPEx will issue twice that count of shares, allocating half to the Qntra board block, and half to the respective authors"
☟︎ jurov: so that's okay, only the +384 distribution issue remains
jurov: anyway, the rest of shares were distributed to coinbr accounts.
jurov: hi AaronvanW, how is the nordic system?
AaronvanW: it's supposed to be pretty sweet jurov. I'm not from a nordic country though
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9404 @ 0.00056856 = 5.3467 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: <jurov> mircea_popescu: qntra report sums to 8969 shares, but you sent me 384 more? << Sums to 8969 indeed. 9353 words last month minus 384 dupe error from december. Someday TMSR will discover arithmetic.
jurov: well, you should write the reports less ambuguously, then
jurov: if you subtract previous monthly report, subtract errors, too, in the same place
PeterL: ambuguous: when something is so ambiguous it has a bug hidden inside somewhere
☟︎ jurov: !znc clearallchannelbuffers
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00056752 = 9.9884 BTC [-] {5}
BingoBoingo after a couple more weeks of reading disappointed in latest blogpost on social engineering. Was way too charitable to historical Hegel.
trinque: ambuguously << to the bash with thee!
gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 44909.70588, vol: 9779.03317634 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 45054.8175, vol: 10150.94149 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 43884.5625, vol: 1.37767864 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 45370.9875, vol: 28144.16690000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 45999.929, vol: 2.79424906 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 45607.1399987, vol: 181.99917109 | Volume-weighted last average: 45211.8997973
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: It's your turn to toss a blockcipher at ascii_butugychag
BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: At this rate mebbe just surprise us with a block cipher in obfusticated C? Make money taking bets on how long it takes for people to figure out what ciper was pulled out of the hat?
PeterL: maybe make up our own block cypher? or just use them all in series?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: Maybe there's an Aloha Snackbar blowfish out there somewhere?
punkman: ascii_butugychag: the keccak folks have "Duplexing the sponge: single-pass authenticated encryption and other applications"
punkman: does ChaCha fit in head? it did fit in those tweets
BingoBoingo: fits in tweet no guarantee of fits in head, head can overflow buffer and leak memory too
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: this is why you need to expand working memory. easily done with stimulants or training!
thestringpuller: "Is your PFC having buffer overflow issues? Expand your working memory today!"
ascii_butugychag: i like bernstein but the adoption of his blockciphers by the enemy casts darkness on them.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: you would venture to mordor if it was worth the trip.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6841 @ 0.00056486 = 3.8642 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: " It took nitrous oxide intoxication temporarily reducing his mental faculties in a particular way to grasp the Hegelian program as its proponents did." << GIGA-L0L
thestringpuller: that part of drug induced idiocy to understand the idiots is priceless
BingoBoingo: It's like software. Person puts a lot of effort into something and it still comes out turd.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> jurov oops ima take the 384 back soz. << It's my bad in addition to total words I should have reported total shares.
mircea_popescu: btw, for the list of "best shit in the world only found in argentina" it's cherry season and omfg. never have i had black cherries like they have here.
PeterL: Michaigan has pretty good cherries
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 03:12:59; shinohai: gpg + ratchet ftw
mircea_popescu: up until the point ascii_butugychag made shiva, it made sense to refrain from multi-genesis situaiton for complaisance. but now that there's two, might as well have 3 and this one is actually useful.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so i'm reading here a 500 word opinion piece about mercedes in qntra. why ? not newsy, not bitcon-y, not funny, what is it.
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 10:23:40; jurov: oh i see "MPEx will issue twice that count of shares, allocating half to the Qntra board block, and half to the respective authors"
BingoBoingo: The magic pisstank turns out to be placebo when comes to NOx apparently... But I guess this is a bit much for that point.
mircea_popescu: yeh. i mean the inkling is good, but this seems a footnote in something else.
BingoBoingo: I guess it's time to start clueing regular contributors in on that stealth turn we decided on.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski when you get back we gotta have a conversation about jokes
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 13:17:04; PeterL: ambuguous: when something is so ambiguous it has a bug hidden inside somewhere
BingoBoingo: I think I'm going to stop reading the "Phenomenology of Spirit". I didn't get sober to import the mental version of systemd.
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 15:44:39; PeterL: maybe make up our own block cypher? or just use them all in series?
PeterL: I'm just brainstorming here
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 15:56:22; ascii_butugychag: punkman: fits-in-head only plox.
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2016 23:48:55; mircea_popescu: incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck this shift-and-xor
mircea_popescu: it's a toy, or at best a ready equivalent for haskell crap in a different circle jerk.
mircea_popescu: going ahead just because the horse you're on happens to want to go is how the christian knights were assraped again and again. rein it in, the horse is yours not you the horse's.
mircea_popescu: and re bass-o-matic, note that while ineptly implemented, the origianl p.z. had the exact same intuition. it happens to be the correct posture here, with the expansion that 25 years added - back then 256bytes was a disk block iirc.
mircea_popescu: so sure, they "fixed" his error, but the wrong way. i don't want a fix for a flat tyre that consists in loading me up on a trai nthat goes a different direction.
mircea_popescu: fix MY fucking flat tyre so i go where I wanted to go in the first place., don't tell me idea is better than 2kbit bassomatic, i couldn't give less of a shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 5500 @ 0.0002676 = 1.4718 BTC [+]
mod6: but yah, in general, it should have its own tree of vpatches. and will save me a lot of pain too :]
mod6: I've got a local fix in place for ben_vulpes' error that he brought up: A file (of any type) exists in 'patches', and it causes V to fail ungracefully.
mircea_popescu: i think it should yea. besides, here's the beauty of it : "broken" v as previously was could nevertheless be used to bootstrap fixed v as currently it is found. you know ?
mircea_popescu: past a certain fixedness level, it can just fix itself.
mod6: yeah, i agree. im hoping that after this round of fixes in place, that the mission-critical features are solid enough to warrent a genesis.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 386.99, vol: 10490.47254911 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 388.68, vol: 8998.20543 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 387.69, vol: 29794.89622714 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 380.0, vol: 1.36321508 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 390.229344, vol: 31426.94780000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 390.55, vol: 343.59925538 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 385.917, vol: 68.99229772 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 16:57:23; mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag seriously, you are going too far too fast. we are not ready to do this yet. i do not wish to use, and i see no purpose of having deployed in any capacity, a block cipher that does not satisfy a) and b) and idealld d) from
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-02-2016#1394698 mircea_popescu: no matter how broken old shit is, it may be only used to bootstrap the creation of correct shit.
ascii_butugychag: it is, or would be, quite useful, if someone would accept an answer to 'what instead of aes'
mircea_popescu: after which i will write a cipher competition, and include my idea.
mircea_popescu: which isn't much of an idea, admittedly, but it's all i got.
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 17:05:32; mircea_popescu: give me a 2kb replacement for bassomatic, in 1991. or a 64kb, today.
ascii_butugychag: the basic problem with ALL known block ciphers is that they are based on fairy dust
ascii_butugychag: 'this is clever and i have nfi how anyone could possibly attack' is proof of ~nothing~ but the intellectual limits of the author
mircea_popescu: note that this is how the "scaling bictoin" "discussion" among "experts" goes :
mircea_popescu: buncha retarded children told too often they're smart and special by drunks and whores.
ascii_butugychag: but re: earlier thread, i'ma publish 'g'. and it'll have one or more of the bad old ciphers from gpg. BECAUSE gpg is ~already~ the weak link in the proposed system. or ben_vulpes doesn't get to download his w4r3z
ascii_butugychag: because i don't have 20 years to wait for discovery of good cipher.
mircea_popescu: this is fucking stupid, as it just cements the bad but apparently tmsr-acceptable now cipher.
mod6: alright, i've got a local fix for gernika's bug where it'll press the entire tree out if the given vpatch is not in the flow.
ascii_butugychag: i'll wait for mircea_popescu to cough up provably-correct cipher..?
mod6: in this case, V will return an error stating something like this: HEAD: asdfasdfasdf not found in flow
ascii_butugychag surprised at how mircea_popescu puts up with 'cementing' the abominably-broken gpg set
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 16:53:38; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396294 << this is like falling in love, you don't make one just because you need one. chaining things you don't understand for accountant's business sense reasons results in unexpected weaknesses. was a thread here about just that few months ago
ascii_butugychag: chaining INDEPENDENT ciphers with INDEPENDENT keys cannot possibly result in added weakness
ascii_butugychag: this is rather like arguing that 'cutting a man's abdominal cavity open will weaken and kill him.' YES if we haven't invented antiseptics yet
ascii_butugychag: and now i wonder how the fuck mircea_popescu can live with rsa
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag the example then was that the chain allows you to introduce known-weak points in a subsequent pass without being able to know it
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: if this were so, may as well have sent the message in the clear!
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 17:05:32; mircea_popescu: give me a 2kb replacement for bassomatic, in 1991. or a 64kb, today.
mircea_popescu: looky : the insane 500 byte udp limit PRECLUDES good cryptography
ascii_butugychag: which, if you include padding room, is rather questionable at 512b
mircea_popescu: what else isn't proven, that teleco standards ALSO preclude good cryptography ?
mircea_popescu: you don't have to put the crypto layer UNDER the upd chunkage.
ascii_butugychag: you do if you want to follow the NOBODY GETS NOTHING FOR SHOWING UP principle
ascii_butugychag: if i can't decide friend or foe after first 512byte, then no go
mircea_popescu: nobody is spending a dollar to break a safe that holds five cents.
mircea_popescu: it's not, no. what, you use a single key for all udp packets ever ?!
ascii_butugychag: incidentally, all block (and even stream) implementations in the battlefield use over-the-wire rekeying
ascii_butugychag: new one is introduced over the wire enciphered with old one, but enemy has no idea WHEN.
ascii_butugychag: this is so basic that it is even beaten to death in usg standards documents for their crud, in public
trinque: guy got devoiced for some reason
BingoBoingo: Eventually TMSR will get counting. Then we can have arithmetic. Eventually ciphers.
punkman: wonder what will be the biggest bbet in 2016
punkman: should email him to bet on himself
BingoBoingo: Over this past week Rush has back off of his Trump promotion and shifted focus to the actual race between the two legit hispanic candidates.
PeterL: you don't think sanders has a chance to beat her?
ascii_butugychag: he was put on the stage for same reason as, in last cycle, mike gravel
PeterL: my wife is pretty sure Sanders is going to save us , I don't get it
BingoBoingo: Sanders might eat clitler's lunch like Hussein did in 08
BingoBoingo: Clitler is probably going to have to try again in 2020
PeterL: to liberal to fit in with the democrats
mircea_popescu: what's liberal mean in the us anymore, retarded ? communist ?
PeterL: make the rich pay! gimme gimme gimme"
mircea_popescu: so strange, seeing how what liberal means is "o, he's raping you ? good for you! spread wider ?"
PeterL: I think liberal used to mean something different, but the term has been coopted by idiots
ascii_butugychag: operates on ~groups~, which are largely products of historical accident.
PeterL: american politics operates on idiotologies
ascii_butugychag: 'liberal' in usa means 'panders to these 17 types of losers who exist in loose coalition'
BingoBoingo: Alright the one thing worth taking away from the "Phenomenology of Spirit" is that USSA is evil in a more profound way than USSR was most of the time.
ascii_butugychag: the hilarious part about american politicircus is that none of the groups pandered-to actually ever ~get~ so much as a bite of the carrot
PeterL: they get token bit here and there
PeterL: "see how that carrot tastes? elect me again or those EVIL guys are gonna take it away"
PeterL: I used to really be into following sports and politics, at some point I realized my fervor had equally little effect on either, I am trying to cut back and ignore them
BingoBoingo starting to believe the materialism if anything might have made Marxism safer than what Idealism wrought in the Harvard educated.
mircea_popescu: idealism is generally a stupidity-amplifier in all seen deployments.
mircea_popescu: from
https://cr.yp.to/bib/online.html : "instead of signing a copyright transfer agreement. If you ever encounter a publisher that doesn't accept this, let me know, and I'll be happy to blacklist that publisher here. I'm now blacklisting IEEE and ACM."
mod6: nice i threw it out there in the twat space
mod6: A great idea, overall. Thanks for posting that and putting up the reward.
mircea_popescu: also open to ammendations / fixes if anyone sees anything amiss.
phf: mircea_popescu: i've been using his guide in the early 2000s, but then i think he caved and switched to laptops, because he stopped updating it. he has a recent build recommendation
https://blog.cr.yp.to/20140602-saber.html from his "saber cluster"
mircea_popescu: So in re the tmsr call for papers. the Plouffe-Euler-? block cipher would work as follows :
mircea_popescu: you need a proper "destructive multiplication" item, which i'll discuss later, noted here º. you proceed to calculate the maxint+key to maxint+key+block digits of pi via repeated applications of the original plouffe algo, and you º the result with the plaintext message which yields the ciphered message.
mircea_popescu: to decipher you calculate the maxint+key to maxint+key+block digits of e with a plouffe-like algo (not here included) which you º' with the ciphered message yielding the original plaintext.
mircea_popescu: the properties which º must obviously exhibit make it only partly similar to plain multiplication - perhaps group theory may produce a good candidate, i have not currently a very clear picture of what this item should actually be, but seems like some sort of modulo-multiplicator.
mircea_popescu: the properties which º' must exhibit may make the entire scheme unfeasible, but i can't seem to prove º' may not exist.
mircea_popescu: notably, this scheme does not necessarily produce the correct plaintext every time. CRC will probably have to be included in the message in any case ; massaging of convenient º/º' pairs will be required to get error rates statistically under an acceptable threshold.
mircea_popescu: the ? is obviously reserved for the name of whoever produces the damned º.
mircea_popescu: maxint in there is quite literally, maxint. currently pi is computed up to about 2*10^13 or so digits. signed 64 bit max is ~10^19
ascii_butugychag: the danger of using transcendentals for crypto is that it opens you up to clever analogue (!) attacks
ascii_butugychag: this is sort of why i'd like to take the opposite approach, rather than take a 'this looks confusing!111' item like transcendental digits, take a proven-nphard problem and 'cryptoify' it somehow
mircea_popescu: the main advantage, perhaps counterin tuitively, to the PE? scheme is that it's so veryt computationally expensive.
mircea_popescu: contrary to piously fraudulent consensus in the field, expensiveness is a quality of cryptographic items.
mircea_popescu: it only hinders the people who want to talk about it, is all.
mircea_popescu: if someone has to expend 1 petahash every time they send me encrypted anything, that's grand.
mircea_popescu: make the postage stamp as part of the encryption, as it were.
mircea_popescu: give people a perfectly valid reason to only take crypto : "i don't want to be spammed"
ascii_butugychag: btw you could achieve this right now, by handing out (disposable) crypted turds containing public key (also single-use) that you would then insist on receiving on.
mircea_popescu: how does user find which are still good and which are spent, for instance.
mircea_popescu: this means he needs to talk to you before talking to you.
mircea_popescu: if it costs enough to speak, these problems are solved by the very speech
mircea_popescu: which is why i'd like to see much more computationally intensive cipher and encryption.
mircea_popescu: except the only paired transcendentals i know of are pi and e.
mircea_popescu: hopefully that relation holds in "well defined" alt-spaces.
mircea_popescu: there's a sad dearth of research in this field. we don't even klnow which of pi*e and pi+e are transcendental. etc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00057008 = 1.5962 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_butugychag: cipher designers have a severe occupational disease, of confusing own ignorance for actual intractability
mircea_popescu: incidentally, are you happy with the call for papers as is ?
ascii_butugychag: i'd add 'probabilistic' to the requirements, but this might be just aesthetic
PeterL: did you set a time limit for it?
ascii_butugychag: also i will add that preferring 'weird' operations, vs. simple arithmetic, costs us more than it costs the enemy.
mircea_popescu: understand this "can" correctly : can cargo cult tribe build any item out of straw and mud that they wish ?
mircea_popescu: nope. they can only build items that look enough like the image of a plane as hashed through their culture.
mircea_popescu: the true curse of idiots is that they think they know what they want. and they do get it, most usually.
mircea_popescu: usg can build anything it wants, and it'll never want to build anything useful. much better, more interesting shiny baubles scattered all over the field.
ascii_butugychag: usg does perfectly fine with well-specified, mechanical edifice
mircea_popescu: what's more "well specified, mechanical" than A FUCKING AIRPLANE
ascii_butugychag: the thing about airplanes is that usg does not have so many captive welders, metallurgists, etc.
ascii_butugychag: it has to compete for those with what remains of private industry
ascii_butugychag: it is one of the few fields where usg pays Moar and provides better working conditions than actual industry
ascii_butugychag: for a degreed mathematician, or even talented amateur, the life choices are generally a) web dev b) usg.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: it also has a lot of bitcoin experts, scattered all over reditg
mircea_popescu: note that the tsar's snake similarly was seen as the shit skin only, and look where that took the tsar!
ascii_butugychag: only happens when 1,001 other conveyor steps ~failed~ catastrophically
mircea_popescu: if the snake was as competent as is required for a living animal, it would certainly not harry djb with inept shit of that level.
mircea_popescu: it is insulting. if i was djb and lived in su i would fucking phone stalin over this stupidity.
mircea_popescu: and, this is the important part, ~AND~ those dumbasses would be hanged by their foreskins.
ascii_butugychag: a wild cryptographer is as tolerable to usg as a wild nuke designer.
ascii_butugychag: or the one who came by my old office disguised as 'friendly neighbour, retired blahblahblah'
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2213 @ 0.00056486 = 1.25 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1820 @ 0.00056356 = 1.0257 BTC [-]
ascii_butugychag: sorta funny how us is rather like an inverse su in this respect
ascii_butugychag: the champs of recent history re: both-at-once was prolly israel. hence a dead gerald bull.
ascii_butugychag: usg is doing a decent job of paying most qualified folks ~not~ to crypto.
ascii_butugychag: sorta how i'm being paid, through a pyramid of derpatronic intermediaries, 'not to tmsr' for 8h/d
mircea_popescu: this works for as long as it does, and in no case produces any airpl;anes.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: re: nuke designer. I remember reading a wired article saying that practical nuclear engineering (bombs) is a dying field since no one can technically test nuclear detonations. Most of the students who were learning from manhattan project-age engineers were learning via word of mouth.
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: it is a dead field for different reason entirely.
thestringpuller: yes. but eventually knowledge to build nuke will vanish. just like sending monkeys to moon.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> -- because it maxed out in 1960s. << aka "because they have no practical utility"
phf: heard similar stories about sending monkeys to moon from nasa people, a lot "research" is a large multi-cultural team trying to reverse engineer 1970s suite glove, etc.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: yes, saturn V blueprints are on net. lets go to moon shall we? i have 3 days off coming up.
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: this is a very 'hollywood' conception of 'blueprints'
phf: but fogbank stories always seemed like Damascus steal, i.e. very precise and advanced, once discovered and lost, equally hard to recover. never did i think that something like glove coupling can get fogbanked
ascii_butugychag: the problem is that no such plans exist for ~anything~ except as part of the engineering context of their time
Nicknaem: have you read nietzsche's works
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> the problem is that no such plans exist for ~anything~ except as part of the engineering context of their time << yet another one of the problems of not running v.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: if the looms are destroyed in a fire, there may be no way to reproduce exactly the same end product.
ascii_butugychag: even v users will get in trouble if we get 200 year gap where no v and no perl, etc
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag actually the one trouble for them is... rebasing :)
mircea_popescu: but you have incremental, crypto-proofed history from an earlier point.
mircea_popescu: the unreliability of record being the chief reason we don;t know history today
ascii_butugychag: except that odoacer III meanwhile broke rsa and collided sha512
mircea_popescu: and by "we" i mean you know, actulaly trained specialists in teh field.
ascii_butugychag: or, more plausibly, the last pgptron gave up its smoke after being used in hand-to-hand combat
ascii_butugychag: block ciphers are not actually necessary if we discard the speed requirement
ascii_butugychag: yes but what precisely is the point of a block cipher that is slower ~and~ bulkier than abused-rsa.
phf: mircea_popescu: ok, i don't get it, about the card printed
mircea_popescu: more importantly : we've done enough positive work, to be met by the imbecile's "oh it never happened, if it did we did it already" as seen most recently in reddit's digestion of the block thing ; or in phuctor etc. it's time we do something inquisitive, and let the entire world full of fucktards admit that they're useless.
mircea_popescu: phf could have "yes, exactly" on one side and "right, exactly" on the other and you could just raise it as appropriate :D
ascii_butugychag: the imbecilatronics will continue exactly as now until physically unplugged, i suspect
mircea_popescu: sure, but i wish to hear a bunch of "oh there's nothing wrong with tiny block ciphers - bitcoin needs larger blocks!!11"
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag speaking of which, this very expensive rare custom job of a server that was made to be a phuctor host is going to be paid for the 2nd idle month.
Nicknaem: i'll be back, this isn't my final form. keep up the good work.
ascii_butugychag: also will nitpick, not idle, hosting the #1 trbtron since day 1.
mircea_popescu: "Dear Ms. Tarzian: Here's another idea I've had: Weight Beaters. Weight Beaters are a method of encouraging participants to lose weight. A participant who does not lose the desired number of pounds in a month is beaten up. This negative feedback can, of course, be combined with more traditional positive-feedback weight-loss mechanisms."
mircea_popescu: as is the ballet teacher holding a switch or light cane.
assbot: Logged on 04-02-2016 20:37:03; ascii_butugychag: for a degreed mathematician, or even talented amateur, the life choices are generally a) web dev b) usg.
thestringpuller: always meant to ask ascii_butugychag - what is your avatar?
ascii_butugychag: the one hitler has, which emerges at the press of a button, when suction is required ?
ascii_butugychag: for some reason, i came to associate him with lisp programming in my head.
danielpbarron: thestringpuller> danielpbarron: you did webdev? << yeah, at my current gig even. Just switched from office to warehouse
danielpbarron: ascii_butugychag> danielpbarron was a cryptographer ? << notrly
danielpbarron: and i thought ascii's avatar was an albino fancy rat
assbot: Logged on 18-11-2015 14:54:26; asciilifeform: shinohai: 'i heard that ivan won a car in the lotto.' 'yes! but not ivan but piotr, not a car but an overcoat, not in lotto but at cards, and not won but lost'
danielpbarron: i went to college for math, even if i did drop out right before actually getting a degree
danielpbarron: i made some kinda neat scripts on my own for playing with prime number patterns
danielpbarron: i made squares of varying widths where each pixel was colored darker for each prime factor it had, the darkest pixels being powers of 2
danielpbarron: top left corner is the number 1 and was pure white
ascii_butugychag: how many us folk realize that usa was mega-power in mid-20th ~because~ it was a place where folks like ulam wanted to live ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5745 @ 0.00056356 = 3.2377 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: on a related note, there is a free bot for getting bitcoin and it's called FoxyBot and it's for Eulora
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> how many us folk realize that usa was mega-power in mid-20th ~because~ it was a place where folks like ulam wanted to live ? >> this is what i've been saying re tmsr for a while nao. finally dawned ?
☟︎ kakobrekla: and where do they want to live, in the past where all the cool beans are?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: for a while for instance they wanted to live in florence, venice etc.
mircea_popescu: "italy" exists in the sense "the united states" exists. barely if at all.