mircea_popescu: ah ah right
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Anyways if you want to promote "the right" bacteria in your dirt just grow legumes and do the whole crop rotation bsns
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: b-but free energy from the soil timecube
asciilifeform: btw i finally realized that gcc (and consequently all known GNATs likewise) deadcode elimination is entirely broken.
asciilifeform: and it is not difficult to figure out who broke it, and why.
asciilifeform: (same folx as were responsible for 'prohibiting' static linking. see, if no dynamically-linked crapolade in process memory space, AND deadcode eliminated, then ROP will be quite painful to arrange !!)
ben_vulpes: ROP?
asciilifeform: !#s ROP
a111: 8 results for "ROP", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ROP
asciilifeform: !~google ROP
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Facts About Retinopathy of Prematurity ( ROP ) | National Eye Institute: <https://nei.nih.gov/health/rop/rop>; Retinopathy of Prematurity | National Eye Institute: <https://nei.nih.gov/health/rop>; Retinopathy of prematurity - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinopathy_of_prematurity>
asciilifeform: mno.
asciilifeform: http://codearcana.com/posts/2013/05/28/introduction-to-return-oriented-programming-rop.html << likbez
asciilifeform: (not an esp. good one, but apparently there is not such a thing as a good one)
asciilifeform: ROP is why you want not only 'fits-in-head' source of proggy, but the smallest binary physically possible.
asciilifeform: (in short: if somehow -- through whatever means -- enemy can nudge the instruction pointer, it has to be nudged ~somewhere~. if stack is not executable, or he cannot put anything useful there, the next best thing is a kind of 'junkyard wars' consisting of ~what is already loaded into your process's address space~.)
ben_vulpes: magical
asciilifeform: it is old, old hat, a good chunk of usg 0day-hunter daily sweat, consists of subj.
ben_vulpes: i can imagine; seems miserable.
ben_vulpes: i wonder what the 'tacoma narrows' moment looks like for intel and friends.
asciilifeform: how do you picture this, ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: intel's a crown-owned affair, effectively, it can only perish together with the crown. like, e.g., 'elektronika' did.
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, wind blows, bridge rips itself apart.
ben_vulpes: i am spectacularly unqualified to opine as to how it might happen this time, so i wonder.
asciilifeform: even terrible semiconductors typically are quite durable -- so this is unlikely to play out literally
ben_vulpes: quite impossible to play out literally, lol
asciilifeform: consider, fdiv bug did not end intel; the 1,000,001 remote 0days did not end microshit.
asciilifeform: or pinto -- ford.
asciilifeform: etc
mircea_popescu: or eight years of hussein bahamas the democrat party ?
mircea_popescu: it does fail eventually.
asciilifeform: brands die, idiocies -- less often. they'll rename it, and hum along
asciilifeform: in east usa there is an infamous cable tv&modem monopoly, 'comcast', it renamed itself to 'xfinity' to fool idiots into 'ooh NEW ISP!'
asciilifeform: it worked.
mircea_popescu: the truth is after eight years of monkey in chief they're scarcely capable of anything but monkeying about. the dem party that lost to bush is such a sad memory for the democrat party of today. like 50yo sinatra to 90 yo sinatra.
asciilifeform: ~same people
mircea_popescu: so now they want to discuss whose ties are bad, who has bathrobes, and whether trump cares or doesn't care about the latest saturday night live.
asciilifeform: (clinton clan was not dispatched from mars just this year)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile gramps goes along with the charade, "for as long as they think i watch tv, what can they break"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much not same people, no.
ben_vulpes: the trifurcation of media, white house proclaimations and social media drivel compared to the last administration is very interesting
mircea_popescu: aha
ben_vulpes: last eight years everything was this tightly dialed drumbeat of unified talking points
mircea_popescu: and most amusing - they thought that's a show of strength.
mircea_popescu: and you know, "civilisation", "appropriateness" "responsibility" "awareness" etcetera.
mircea_popescu: obama fucked the left more than it fucked the us ; left them utterly incapable of mere survival.
ben_vulpes: these days, everyone watches twitter to see how donny's going to respond to something happening on the teevee, while he waves the red cloak of nordstrom or even just "make america great again" (which i fucking die laughing every time he tweets that phrase naked), while the white house press bureau releases some very well-written copy on "failure(s) to enforce sovereign duty"
ben_vulpes: duty/responsibilities
ben_vulpes: plus that master stroke of "anti human trafficking" + instantiation of the gendarmerie-as-municipal-officer-coordination-office recently
ben_vulpes: verily, we are impressed
mircea_popescu: and consider -- he's selling the supreme strength of NOT having a bunch of these useless dorks employed as... a weakness.
ben_vulpes: "useless dorks" aka social media mgrs?
mircea_popescu: no, white house experts / aides / wash dc denizens
asciilifeform: betcha all of their pay doesn't buy ~one~ discounted-f35
ben_vulpes: is he really selling that so hard? looks more like the organized organs of the left are pushing that angle and he's not fighting it terrifically hard, because why bother
ben_vulpes: in *entirely* unrelated lols, it turns out that various tribal security directives are to "use ms products and keep all data on local disk because we don't trust cloud because obvious tool of ministry of wtf." meanwhile, it dept struggling to wrap heads around how all of their files ended up on the ms cloud.
ben_vulpes: obvious conclusion that ms is also wholly owned subsidiary of ministry of wtf has apparently not yet occured.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Problem is soil timecube is rounded. For srs. Just get a bunch of peat moss while you can along with composted cow manure, and a few 5 gallon buckets full of generic 10-10-10
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no, he's selling it soft. but it's getting bought, in oodles, which ios what matters.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Other decent substrate is softwood bark composted to consistency of smooshed chocolate cake
BingoBoingo: Also aero/hydro-ponics are for the poor (i.e. stoners)
BingoBoingo: Anyways, what'c the native soil like in your parts?
BingoBoingo: And how long dies it take water to drain out of a void 2 feet deep and 2 feet in circumference?
BingoBoingo: *does
BingoBoingo: brb
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-10#1613072 << define "better"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-10 17:24 thestringpuller: Maybe if log search was better ;)
asciilifeform: https://www.skynet.ie/~caolan/Packages/callcatcher.html << obligatory, apparently, 'what you want exists, so what if it dun work at all'
asciilifeform: srsly forfuckssake if routine cannot be JMP'd into, i want it GONE FROM THE MOTHERFUCKING BINARY
asciilifeform: (and before anyone asks, CFLAGS = -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections LFLAGS = --gc-sections does nil)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-11#1613185 << http://phrack.org/issues/58/4.html☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-11 00:27 asciilifeform: ROP is why you want not only 'fits-in-head' source of proggy, but the smallest binary physically possible.
asciilifeform: it is in every set of docs from past 20 years, and does jack shit.
asciilifeform: 'This problem can't be appropriately solved with a linker, particularly not the GNU linker. GNU ld can only throw out sections, not unused functions or global variables; so if you've got a file containing 10 functions, 9 of which are unused, all ten will still get linked.' << for the imbecility museum
phf: i thought that was the case since forever, last time i asked a question why gcc can't tree shake (10 or so years ago) i was told that i don't understand..
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EDF58C157F19F56ED0FF3F23767C3D0AEF9AFCAF9A39796BD2D4447505F83DA9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1362...0797 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (83-144-106-242.static.chello.pl. PL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EDF58C157F19F56ED0FF3F23767C3D0AEF9AFCAF9A39796BD2D4447505F83DA9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1496...6703 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (83-144-106-242.static.chello.pl. PL)
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-11#1613177 << http://phrack.org/issues/49/14.html (classic paper, in logs), then http://seclists.org/bugtraq/1997/Aug/63, then http://phrack.org/issues/58/4.html, then you can apply for a job at NSA, since that's basically all you need to know :p☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-11 00:24 ben_vulpes: ROP?
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: phf: rop is the bread, there is also the butter of actually nudging instruction pointer (stack/heap smash, overflows, etc) but sure.
mircea_popescu: seems the only approach is to simply not include not used functions.
mircea_popescu: static linking doesn't work ? ok then, i import the source.
mircea_popescu: take linking out of it altogether
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is actually how the heavy industrial realtime ada folx do it. fork the standard lib.
asciilifeform: and then gnatelim does the job.
mircea_popescu: yep. and it's both very v-ish and unbeatable.
asciilifeform: the annoying part is that there is no reason at all why i should not be able to do this TO AN EXISTING BINARY
asciilifeform: to make, say, auditing more practical.
asciilifeform: or for whatever other reason.
mircea_popescu: yeah well. can;t win them all.
asciilifeform: the info is ~there~.
mircea_popescu: if you don't have the binary's source, let's say you're holding smoke.
phf: same as "no reason" why can't have byte equivalent binary from multiple compilations
mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have the bins, with symbols, dwarf debug tags, etc. and this is a transformation i can do by hand in, say, ida. but the only reason i even have to think about it is that gcc is MILITANTLY stupid and gloms in trivially provably unused routines
mircea_popescu: gcc is militantly stupid.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/79A7E0D4EF15DF0C782F08A1B3750DF77C60678A90DDE5806C8C654E34CD31A5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1453...7203 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CZ PR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/79A7E0D4EF15DF0C782F08A1B3750DF77C60678A90DDE5806C8C654E34CD31A5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1494...6039 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CZ PR)
phf: holy fucking shit, i'm doing cursory google searches on the subject. "tree shaking gcc" results in all javascript articles. google helpfully expands gcc to "google closure compiler"
mircea_popescu: google is useful.
phf: Searches related to tree shaking "gcc": angular 2 performance benchmark
mircea_popescu: "there's a difference between what you want and what you need ; and google will insistently, relentlessly give you what you want"
phf: "nice trust, hacko, back to your mines"
phf: *try
asciilifeform: phf: set 'verbatim' mode
asciilifeform: (then enjoy the ~0 results)
asciilifeform: http://hubicka.blogspot.com/2014/04/linktime-optimization-in-gcc-1-brief.html << for expert entomologists strictly.
asciilifeform: http://www.open64.net << one of the few actual competitors of gcc (started life as sgi's compiler, published openly, retargeted to x64) VANISHED
asciilifeform: (if archive.usg is to be believed, it disappeared from the net some time between march and june of 2015)
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Ap6hm , and then finally https://archive.is/tRo8Q .
mircea_popescu: did you have a copy ?
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: tsk,
mircea_popescu: me either. i suspect it's high time to copy everything one might ever need. because...
mircea_popescu: it's all going away.
asciilifeform: http://developer.amd.com/tools-and-sdks/cpu-development/x86-open64-compiler-suite << still has (what purports to be) the circa-2013 tarball.
asciilifeform: and holy shit WHY IS ALL OF GCC IN THERE
asciilifeform: and -- i shit thee not -- 373M of src.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the beobachter, https://archive.is/WMdhE
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/KCUry << another lulzy faek
asciilifeform: but meanwhile, elsewhere in vast monkeystan, https://archive.is/lJxIm >> 'The indictment against Tverdokhlebov is based entirely on the years-old chats, with no hard information about specific thefts, suggesting that the feds are using it as a wedge to try and pry more evidence from Tverdokhlebov’s arrest and the search of his computers. Over government objections, a magistrate judge set Tverdokhlebov’s bail at $100,000 last week
asciilifeform: but stayed the man’s release pending a government appeal, set to be heard in Virginia on Friday. The feds are urging that Tverdokhlebov be held without bail, claiming that he has few ties to the U.S. and enough underworld contacts to flee to Mexico and from there to Russia.'
asciilifeform: d00d apparently stowed it all in benjies. in BANK BOXES.
mircea_popescu: pretty naive.
asciilifeform: apparently the only evidence used in the arrest was the mention of this schmuck's name in logs stolen from some other dekulakization candidate.
asciilifeform: in other oddities, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607665 apparently picked up by the 'pantsuit' folk, https://archive.is/WnaUg >> '...and the nation sometimes needs them to check the president. James Schlesinger’s loyal act of disloyalty...'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 19:28 ben_vulpes: what is this "nixon-shaped box"?
asciilifeform: loyal acts of disloyalty. didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: so far they're losing pretty badly.
asciilifeform: i dun see where is this 'losing'. nao, winning-slightly-slower-than-usual -- sure.
mircea_popescu: in your terms, anything can be said to be anything else.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/LAiMM << in related winningz
mircea_popescu: they're not even going to try and defend obamacare ; or global warming. that's pretty much it. they're being outflanked on education $$$, there's literally nothing left. desperation moves from umd or the conclave of "tech giants" are just that, beaten dog sqealing because stepped on.
mircea_popescu: i still can't believe they actually opted to engage the judicial system. that was supposed to be the reserve. they've no reserves now.
asciilifeform: it was that or wagner+cyanide
mircea_popescu: it was.
mircea_popescu: but nevertheless.
asciilifeform: if judiciary spins mr.t on its cock like propeller, however, it is not hard to picture obummercare, warmism, the whole orchestra, staying exactly where it is because 'customer has come to expect!' and 'they HAVE RIGHTZ!!!'
mircea_popescu: scarce hope of that.
mircea_popescu: way this works is as an empowerment engine. all trump has to do is keep a steady stream of loud but idiotic fixes coming ; for the judiciary to reject.
mircea_popescu: they're building up his cred, "hey, tried x, tried y, tried z, clinton wouldn't let me!"
asciilifeform: i can see how the spreading worx, mircea_popescu --- but how does the eating work
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
mircea_popescu: he doesn't actually need to do anything. all he needs is a good excuse as to why he isn't. so far - they're providing him it.
asciilifeform: well what's the ??? step between 'they wouldn't let me!!' and the proverbial 'profit'
mircea_popescu: !~google mineriada
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Mineriad - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineriad>; June 1990 Mineriad - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_1990_Mineriad>; Mineriada din iunie 1990 - Wikipedia: <https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineriada_din_iunie_1990>
asciilifeform: ^ is in the l0gz, was quite a read
mircea_popescu: standard procedure. yeltsin bombarded the parliament building yes
asciilifeform: this is obviously possible. note that however nixon did not bombard anything.
asciilifeform: and mr.t has not one schlesinger but, if we are to believe, 1,001.
mircea_popescu: nixon didn't run on a "i will tear down washington dc" ticket.
asciilifeform: tru
mircea_popescu: anyway, that's kind-of the hope, i guess, with all the "loyal disloyalty" and "leaks from wh" bs, that maybe he's doing something. except -- he isn't.
mircea_popescu: his winning strat is to watch tv in bathrobe all day, and underline press reports. which is what's literally eating their hearts out.
mircea_popescu: whole machinery's geared up to obstruct a naive nixon, trying to get shit done. it has exactly 0 solutions for the stark opposite.
netmonk: hello
mircea_popescu: heya netmonk
mircea_popescu: how goes ?
netmonk: fine
asciilifeform: in other 'neinneinneinneinnein!'s, https://archive.is/q7bf1 >> 'Fake news is “killing people’s minds” according to Apple boss Tim Cook, who is urging the Government to launch a public information campaign to counteract the problem. Mr Cook called for a an awareness campaign similar to those which alerted people to health epidemics such as AIDS in the 1980s and environmental issues including the ozone layer in the 1990s.'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: 'Just as major tech companies have accepted they have a social responsibility to combat piracy online and the illegal sharing of content, they also need to help address the spreading of fake news on social media platforms.' << didjaalsoknow.
asciilifeform: RESPONSIBILITY!
BingoBoingo: Tech companies have a responsibilitit to STFU and Labcoin already
BingoBoingo: *Amazing companies
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cook has a point. trump wh should launch a campaign (paid with public funds) denouncing the ~foreign propaganda~ pushed by the guardian and urging people not to read the libertard fishwraps, nyt&co.
mircea_popescu: specifically because fake news is killing people's minds.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "tech companies". basically all that's left of the us economy these days is inept dorks playing the "many web users matter!!11" roulette.
mircea_popescu: technically speaking the us economy is ~= egypt economy. the us has silicon valley, egypt has the luxor center for businessmen. fair crop.
BingoBoingo: Well, there's still ass to mouth welfare cycle that feeds walmart and lowers farmers to pederasty
mircea_popescu: there is.
BingoBoingo: From which a bit leaks to feed SV iTunes-isms
mircea_popescu: yeah basically, let's draw this engine.
mircea_popescu: so, the chinese are willing to pay for real estate ; either in the form of actual land, or in the form of distilled land as soy, mineral rights, etc. there's basically an infinite demand for this, they'll buy it all up, whole planet, no problem.
mircea_popescu: the chinese are also willing to pay ~a little~ for umd services, namely, the stamping of "this chinese guy is as good as the best white man" on foreheads of their second sons.
BingoBoingo: Ag subsidies supply Walmart. Walmart harvest SNAP and WIC food programs. SV collects opportunistic purchases of iTunes giftcards at walmart register.
mircea_popescu: the chinese are at the same time pumping out manufactured goods. this is infinite quantity, as much as you can take, no problem.
mircea_popescu: and the whole of the "us" ie really all nato ie really all white world - russia (and - the muslims, if you think they're wwhite) works a cycle which consists of two spinners
mircea_popescu: the "real" spinner, which consists of turning the soil into dust to produce chinese real estate ; this is "farming" and "real estate development" and "mining" and etcetera. such as the soy production in argentina, now and again lulzed at in the logs. dudes totally gutted this place.
mircea_popescu: and the "fake" spinner, which consists of turning the minds of the populace into dust, doing bizarro hollywood-like tournament markets.
mircea_popescu: the latter spinner is spun from the former, but only as much as absolutely strictly needed.
mircea_popescu: that's the whole "who could really imagine the earth could open up to swallow the immense resources of ingenuity of the us".
mircea_popescu: the earth did open up, did swallow.
BingoBoingo: Lo
mircea_popescu: given all this : a) war with chinese must start today ; b) internment camp for us lefties should have already been a thing. the japs had no business being there in ww2. the us left has no business being alive.
asciilifeform: lel, war with the folx having planet's ~only remaining general-purpose industrial base. will go great
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mexico still exists!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: pygmystans where foreign devils set up conveyors, made of imported devilstuff, for pygmy to slave at, are not 'industrial base'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's a sort of refugarium were US companies that are too white to rassle Chinesium maintaim production under their own management.
BingoBoingo: *where
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you drop the hand the moment you know it can't win, not the moment you feel you can afford to do so.
mircea_popescu: we're not fucking women. feelings don't enter into it. war before winter, and the wholesale of california 20yos to saudi princes.
mircea_popescu: sadly, the chinese are too smart to take them. that'd have been the historical way out of this predicament, and how venice survived eg, charles.
mircea_popescu: or for that matter what sustained the jews through their 5k years. no, it wasn't "the sense of humor", LEL! no, it wasn't "the covenant"
mircea_popescu: it was that rachel wouldn't shut up and wouldn't stop riding the cock.
mircea_popescu: at which juncture, mp warmly recommends http://trilema.com/2016/black-book/
asciilifeform: china is 'black box' -- i for instance have genuinely nfi whether they nixed their equiv. of 'elbrus', or merely hid it. (and i know of nobody showing any symptom of publicly having half a clue re subj)
mircea_popescu: aha
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/02/amid-increased-leftist-violence-in-us-local-resistance-leader-disappears-in-missouri/ << Qntra - Amid Increased Leftist Violence In US, Local Resistance Leader Disappears In Missouri
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: dat moment when one asks for a timestamp and it comes out 13:37
BingoBoingo: Win