diana_coman: the full list of stuff pulled in by flask seems to be: flask Werkzeug itsdangerous Jinja2 MarkupSafe
diana_coman: asciilifeform: thanks; and yes, the .ext.cache trouble seems to be re v 0. or 1., ugh
diana_coman: well, by now it seems to me that either ALL match, or otherwise headache; and I suspect that at the next level it's simply either same repo/distro or won't match
diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though
diana_coman: but anyway by now my notes are a full novel
diana_coman: as usual, there's no lack of "tools", lolz; only none does anything other than eating up more time, ofc.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: so then what, I'm still better off writing the bot in C or what?
diana_coman: well yes but it's starting to sound even appealing here, lolz
diana_coman: given this, I seriously wonder if it can be much worse to make it in ada on top of all the gnat-mess including unbounded strings and gnat.sockets and everything else; at least the full gnat so far *is* more transferable
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 04:51:18 mircea_popescu: it's this device that transforms inca (circular motion) into republic (linear motion) by the principle of only permitting rotary motion in one direction, thereby using the inca mass against itself.
BingoBoingo: 4 real, Also Argentina is now officially in "selective default" after the latest round of Derpities announced trying to keep hell from breaking loose before October 27th.
BingoBoingo: Well, probably waiting for local labor prices to drop enough to outsource the spear work to the Paraguayo immigrant population.
BingoBoingo: I suspect Mandarin is not a language in the mundane sense.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: China doesn't even particularly like Argentina. The Argentine Navy shoots at their fishing boats.
BingoBoingo: I don't see a situation where the Chicoms step in to save Argentina. Argentina isn't rich in natural resources like Vzla.
BingoBoingo: No one depends on the strength of Argentine paper holding to prop up anything. Even Uruguay has adopted a strict decoupling from Argentina so as to not sink with them.
BingoBoingo: The blackboard rate today hit 0.38/0.98 compra/venta. Part of this is intentional monetary policy re: "fuck Argentina", but there being less distance between zero and compra than compra and venta is a fairly new phenomenon.
snsabot: Logged on 2017-06-08 13:09:01 a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The cambios buy per 0.38, sell for 0.98. Very infrequent the blackboard rate is used with Argentine pesos, usually cambios offer better rates on pesos Argentinos for all but trivial volumes.
BingoBoingo: The wide blackboard spread is because no one wants to sit on pesos argentinas
BingoBoingo: A labor movement that wants the factories to leave has no use.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 15:27:44 asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?
lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 6 hours and 25 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ?
BingoBoingo: Why would Brasil buy? Argentina doing what Argentina does is part of Brasil's sales pitch.
trinque: huh, that's sort of annying behavior.
trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead
trinque: asciilifeform: I mean whether cuntoo is desirable as is.
trinque: trying to learn in my old age to take half a smell of the market before hauling off and building something
trinque: possible avenue of porting is to stand up an amd64 cuntoo, and then use crossdev to rebuild all ebuilds at a specified root dir
trinque: looking for what the env variable is
trinque: nah, the one where you can tell portage to blast its built-proggie output to a new root
trinque: I've used this to great benefit to blap down an embedded firmware
trinque will pick up his own, but thanks very much!
trinque: link to the exact model? and I'll stand up my crossdev stack for it
trinque: cool, got a big'n and small otw, arrives tomorrow
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 20:52:37 diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though
lobbes: For clarity, on testbed I got the eater.py and the reader.py working fine. Was able to view loglines and search with no issue (on localhost only, didn't test port forwarding). Did *not* test the bot.py, however. For reference, my version info: Flask 0.12.2; psycopg2 2.7.4; Python 2.7.15
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 20:54:34 asciilifeform: i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:32:30 asciilifeform: iirc lobbes actually wrote a vintage-php frontend . but bot is still py and uses same spittoon
lobbes:
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932106 << I agree this is probably the proper behavior. But it ain't changing anytime soon. The heathen coad lobbesbot runs on [i.e. it doesn't sit on the logbot tree like auctionbot] is slated to be discontinued just as soon as I get some more important things complete. Not sinking any more time trying to staple that dead horse
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:54:01 trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:34:40 asciilifeform: saddest thing is, i'm not even certain it's more retarded than e.g. hunchentoot
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:47:14 mircea_popescu: this understanding is current as of cca 2016. meanwhile we agreed that because a) it is preferrable to work with republican rather than imperial items and to prevent more imperial seepage than needed ; and because b) there's no limit to signature count as per long standing observations and discussions (with a very early asciilifeform cca 2013 maybe) then therefore the correct approach is to sign things early, t
spyked: problem remains one of bootstrapping: iirc sbcl requires a working lisp in order to be built.
spyked: and the only *quick* solution that I can think of here is signing the binturd that I've been using for the last few years; if anyone has a better idea, pl0x to chime in
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:21:10 asciilifeform: diana_coman: rly it oughta be in tmsr-adalisp (tm)(r) but this apparently dun exist yet.
spyked: tuff, which I suspect would make the result no different than either flask or hunchentoot
spyked: re.
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931011 <-- /me has been thinking a bit about this after reading the discussion, and it occurs to me that one of the reasons that might keep people from signing items is that there's no way to "unsign" them. nor that is desirable imho, but "what if" some sign piece of coad turns out to burn your house to the ground. in any case, this reveals to me the (
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-25 13:25:11 diana_coman: but it's a more difficult thing to catch as it were: as above, it's unclear if "no signature" is a sign of "seeking to hide imperfection" or of "no read" or wtf already
spyked: perhaps obvious) fact that the signature says something about the signatory *at the time* when he/she has signed, not necessarily at the time that I'm using the object in question.
spyked: grrr... *is that, *some signed piece
spyked needs to wake up; bbl, tea
diana_coman: spyked: there's no way to undo what one did, yes; make amends maybe, undo no.
diana_coman: re logger atm I am undecided as my options so far seem to be: 1. do another round of madness with flask until it works on this old (but stable at least) centos 2. replicate environment aka burn down centos and have fun installing remotely on the machine cuntoo 3. simply run irssi (as I'm otherwise running this code anyway as my client) with logging to db into an mp-wp database and be done with it (possibly each line a one comment - will end
diana_coman: ofc there's alway 4. give up on it at this time
spyked: diana_coman, yeah, well I suppose that's another reason why the manifest mechanism is useful: if I signed a patch P at t1, and later I found out that it does something stupid or subtly malicious or whatever; then at t2 I can sign the "inverse" to P and give context to that signature in the manifest (whoever tries to press that has to know why particularly I made some change)
mp_en_viaje: hi all from the comfortable insides of florimund, my european mobile mping station.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 13:10:29 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm working on organizing a break down of the situation. It's a very map-heavy exercise
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 15:26:21 asciilifeform: will post photo 'porn' when assembled, for aficionados.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:09:05 diana_coman: centos 6; because gentoo problem as you just described + the poor moldavian guys anyway pretty much @kukuruz
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:27:23 diana_coman: to cite from flask's description, for full allergy-triggers: A micro-framework for Python based on Werkzeug, Jinja 2 and good intentions
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:34:40 asciilifeform: saddest thing is, i'm not even certain it's more retarded than e.g. hunchentoot
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:38:11 asciilifeform: ( mp is fond of old php , but it suffers from 100% of same headaches , and in fact even slower , esp. if the job is even slightly moar complicated than wp ; he arrived at it same way i did at 'flask' -- picked up decade ago and 'it worx, i'ma pour cement on this' )
mp_en_viaje: trying to maybe gwt out of it, hence
the work to spec "blog" in the abstract ; but mp-wp stack works for trilema TODAY ; i ain't taking a break from publishing untul "better world". god knows the week long #trilema outage was long enough.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:41:50 asciilifeform: ( would also be Right Thing for e.g. bootstrapping gnat, and related battlefield )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 20:52:37 diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though
mp_en_viaje: you can build ok from gentoo work if in there, but it won't work in centos world and vice0versa, "version number" irrespective.
mp_en_viaje: much like ye olde red army tanks worked if parta made by same factory not of same kind
mp_en_viaje: esltatrds managed to reimplement mirvniki farming-powered parochial worlview.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 20:59:22 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i vaguely suspect that this is the thing that discouraged past folx who made loggers, from genesising. 'dafuq is the point, likely no one can even replicate this'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:02:32 diana_coman: asciilifeform: so then what, I'm still better off writing the bot in C or what?
mp_en_viaje: but yes, that you'll be sinking in more of your time than it's worth, you know that going in. "modern computing paradigm".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:08:33 asciilifeform: well if you feel like sweating out 3 kilometres of malloc() and realloc()'s and errno()'s -- who am i to say
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:09:24 asciilifeform: diana_coman: you'd need to bake pg glue for ada, there aint any
mp_en_viaje: ftr, this is fucking beautiful, going towards balea on 7c while reading logs.
mp_en_viaje: i was here many times before (though not in the past... well, 20 or so yeaes) but i never knew this is what i wanted to make it complete!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:22:37 asciilifeform: atm i have a distinct unpleasant feeling that the
ratchet presently does not ratchet very well.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:28:21 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the chinese can show up with the slave galleons and start loadin' whenever they feel like. ( and it is a deep enigma, far above asciilifeform's paygrade, to explain wtf they're waiting for )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:29:43 BingoBoingo: Well, probably waiting for local labor prices to drop enough to outsource the spear work to the Paraguayo immigrant population.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:36:05 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: China doesn't even particularly like Argentina. The Argentine Navy shoots at their fishing boats.
mp_en_viaje: whoopsy, lost coverage there a second crossing the transfagarasan
mp_en_viaje: anyway, point being argentine is ~equiv
innocent black youth : pure entropic process, exactly like yeast fermentation. "industry" pointed misnomer for the activity.
diana_coman: apparently transfagarasan not that well covered, lol
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 06:34:02 mp_en_viaje: anyone wanna guess the make ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 04:09:03 spyked: and the only *quick* solution that I can think of here is signing the binturd that I've been using for the last few years; if anyone has a better idea, pl0x to chime in
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 04:12:47 spyked:
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931955 <-- recall, /me already wrote a
toy prototype as his introduction to ada. other than the fact that it looks noobish and requires work to integrate with the c-isms, writing logger on top of it would also require something along the lines of a. mod_adalisp and b. handling other wwwistic s
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 22:51:04 lobbes: For clarity, on testbed I got the eater.py and the reader.py working fine. Was able to view loglines and search with no issue (on localhost only, didn't test port forwarding). Did *not* test the bot.py, however. For reference, my version info: Flask 0.12.2; psycopg2 2.7.4; Python 2.7.15
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 04:19:52 spyked: re.
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931011 <-- /me has been thinking a bit about this after reading the discussion, and it occurs to me that one of the reasons that might keep people from signing items is that there's no way to "unsign" them. nor that is desirable imho, but "what if" some sign piece of coad turns out to burn your house to the ground. in any case, this reveals to me the (
diana_coman: i.e. so far I could at least actually run the reader and it's waiting; ran the eater on my own ossasepia deeded logs and it ate
diana_coman: asciilifeform: what's the incantation to do with apache to check now?
diana_coman: and ofc I need to see if the *bot* also works, lolz
diana_coman: asciilifeform: the config knobs were set (easy part!!)
diana_coman: ha, at least I got the bot running and joining the chan (ossasepia-test), yeee
diana_coman: it needed one more install but anyways; nao to see about apache
BingoBoingo: "Creo que va a venir el préstamo del FMI, pero estarán esperando el respaldo por parte de la oposición" << Argentard of apparent import in the Argentardocracy discussing pending, yet to be revealed currency exchange controls. Dude just assumes more dole fodder is on the way so long as Argentines all agree to the right ritual handwashing.
diana_coman: yeeeee, works and test-live at logs.ossasepia.com (185.163.46.29)
diana_coman: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo can I get that pizarro banner to hang in there?
diana_coman looks at the pile of lisp books waiting on the shelf
BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell mod6 the links to your pizarro banners appear to all be 404 on mod6.net, is there any way you could assemble all the banners together in a blog post or something?
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: thanks! got it and it's online already.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: indeed it does! and yes, I'll have to look into something for younghands probably but pizarro will stay there too
diana_coman: asciilifeform: re vtree I considered it but atm the source is your blog so there it is; when I get around to wrap it up I'll sign + publish etc
diana_coman: asciilifeform: can I get a raw dump of the logs to feed the bot or how best to sync?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: which raw dump link? the db dump you mean?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 21:54:01 trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead
mp_en_viaje: i honestly dun see the prioblem with in-chan delivery.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 08:52:51 diana_coman: apparently transfagarasan not that well covered, lol
mp_en_viaje: it;s not "just the tunnel", bout 30-40km each way, radio dead zone.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Well, its the Argentine Navy firing in the general direction of Chinese boats. And they did sink one Chinese boat in 2016.
BingoBoingo: The Argentines also refuse to publish any charts outlining the EEZ their Navy enforces
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 08:58:09 trinque: various "block explorers" show that one as shipped. afaik all have.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 06:59:30 mp_en_viaje: trying to maybe gwt out of it, hence
the work to spec "blog" in the abstract ; but mp-wp stack works for trilema TODAY ; i ain't taking a break from publishing untul "better world". god knows the week long #trilema outage was long enough.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 07:07:00 mp_en_viaje: much like ye olde red army tanks worked if parta made by same factory not of same kind
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 18:47:31 asciilifeform: with implementation weighing a few dozen kB.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 08:31:43 mp_en_viaje: ~most commodity classes are more monetized than new cars, which is universally what the argentines do : they also make heaters that
are worse heaters than scrap wire. and
worse coputer cases than tree trunks and so on.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: no hurry; is !o ok to take for ossabot?
diana_coman: not sure if there's some algo to it; my choice was so it's easy to remember/match
diana_coman: for the dump I did first a sed for botname and then restore into db
diana_coman: myeah, atm it's still in "beta" deploy, lol
snsabot: asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 14d 3h 9m
girlattorney: almost, then left unsynced at 585k height, but still have the data.
girlattorney: I have read the log for a couple of weeks then now logged in to make other questions
girlattorney: i was trying to moving it on a better colo and left everything off for a while
girlattorney: i also had a nice graph made with darkstat about the peers that helped most on syncing from 0
girlattorney: basically most of the juice (chunks of 50-60gb) camed from your node asciilifeform and bingo boingo
girlattorney: i still have the iotop stats, and will make a post somewhere soon with them
girlattorney: btw, after stripping out DNS on my important applications (such as TRB) my question now was about IP space assigned from IANA, could this be in the future an attack vector?
girlattorney: in particular i'm referring about BGP hijacking and the general fact that IANA is a third party of a government, that a day could decide to limit the user freedom
girlattorney: so as long as trb doesn't care about the peers, and there isn't a single point of failure (aka DNS and root servers) we are sound, correct?
girlattorney: and if i have understood correctly in BGP you do advertise your own routes and eventually someone go to your home and say "you cannot advertise these routes"
girlattorney: is not like DNS where there is a precise hierarchy, correct?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-25 16:35:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: usg ministry of lulz is trying to push usgtronic 'pki' bgp. so, 1st gotta 'make weather', vandalize a bit, drum up interest.
girlattorney: i'm in europe, so in my case the middleman should be ripe ncc
girlattorney: but haven't understood if ripe depends from iana
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-21 00:00:24 asciilifeform: ( often enuff there's a concealed -- if not always well-concealed -- roundtrip to london / washington, sitting in 'between austria and switzerland' etc )
BingoBoingo: girlattorney: BGP is held together by routers on the edges of individual networks holding the entire route table in memory. In part there's folks allocating IP address blocks. In the other part there's the routers accepting and/or rejecting updates to the routes they already know.
girlattorney: from what i've understood iana is the big boy that decided everything in the beginning, then created some other orgs to give the idea that every continent got it's own independent association
girlattorney: but in the end they are still controlling the v4 and v6 public space allocation
BingoBoingo: Anyone else waiting for one of their nodes to eat and spread block 592450?
girlattorney: i've read that with ripe ncc you have your loa with your own ip space, if you "fucks up" 3 times announcing blocks, the peers connected to you have to disconnect
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 13:40:12 girlattorney: i was trying to moving it on a better colo and left everything off for a while
girlattorney: i must disclose that at the current value of BTC i'm haven't got so much to justify multiple nodes in expensive colos
girlattorney: but i'll get in touch to have an idea of prices and availability
girlattorney: 100 a month is too much, im in the 20 range atm
girlattorney: if i can ask, what is the oversell rate of a pizarro grade isp?
girlattorney: read the bingo bongo post about cdn and local intranets with load of bandwith
girlattorney: but then when you go outside, you instantly go from a 10 lanes road to a single lane road
girlattorney: what is sad if that currently if you are in europe, to reach south america, you HAVE to pass through USA
girlattorney: won't change much politically, but this cable has the potential to lower the overseas link prices
girlattorney: that fiber that already exist from brazil to portugal is only used for telephone traffic (can't remember where i read this)
girlattorney: the game changer should arrive with "ella link"
BingoBoingo: There's several SA to Europe pipes, Almost all of them go through Fortaleza, Brazil
girlattorney: BingoBoingo i think you aren't aware that currently there isn't an IP route from fortaleza to eu
girlattorney: there are two cables: one from 2000 that afaik carries only phone calls and govt activities (atlantis 2) and the 2nd that is still not operational (ella link)
BingoBoingo: Pretty sure my copy-paste buffer munged the hex: Block decode failed (code -22)
BingoBoingo: After a long stretch of not needing to give a day or two and seeing the whole trb-iverse visible from my chair stuck on the same block, I figure why not try to forcefeed the problem block
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-01 18:31:03 asciilifeform: at this pt, seems quite evident that someone is throwing around crafted wedge chains (i.e. mined after-the-fact , with backdated timestamp, going from older block) specifically to wedge syncing folx.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-01 17:39:18 asciilifeform: dorion: '08/01/19 01:11:33 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=0000000000000000000b height=588012 work=2327381792950809691787748424' << somebody's sending invalid blox. happens erryday.
mp_en_viaje: anyways, i'll be off for the night. cya all laterz
BingoBoingo: Or there's some segshit attached which should be shaved off
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently now blocks have a size and a stripped size. Looking for a raw stripped 450 in the wild
mod6: i've got up through 451 now.
lobbesbot: mod6: Sent 3 hours and 6 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> the links to your pizarro banners appear to all be 404 on mod6.net, is there any way you could assemble all the banners together in a blog post or something?
mod6: was stuck on 449 for a bit tho.
BingoBoingo: mod6: I suddenly hit up to 453 all within the last minute
mod6: asciilifeform: lemme check
mod6: as per your comment re banners, BingoBoingo, will look.
mod6: asciilifeform: ok cool thx.
mod6: happens sometimes, ya
mod6: BingoBoingo: ok, banners should be there. want to try again? (otherwise, can move to blog post)
mod6: busy. took a vacation. needed to think about things. mainly about my tarpit problems; still a problem circa november of last year.
mod6: but yeah, 9th circle. but now, I'm committing myself to getting rid of the salt-mine, somehow. I've got to do some thinking, and talking to peoples, etc. but I want out of that life.
mod6: cheers, yeah will do.
mod6: *nod* in the early days, pre-tmsr, I had a similar thing, was much easier to stay focused/up-to-date.
mod6: but now, need to re-invent myself a bit. need to move on from 9-5ism, and be my own man. will be a "project" for me, but working on the deets/plans atm.
mod6: thanks alf, will write when complete.
mod6: indeed like quicksand.
mod6: the important thing for me is that i'm resolved to not just sit around and wait for things to happen to me, re: 9-5 tarpit. im starting down a path of emacipation from that. might take some time, but not too much time.
mod6: it's already been too long.
mod6: soon i'll have none left!
mod6: i see him in my logz too
mod6: i saw in the logs that others were standing one up - immediately thought "ok, yup do this too." but before I embark on yet another thing, need to ensure that i have proper time. but i'll add it to list for sure.
mod6: thanks for your efforts in building logtron.
mod6: i use the page daily, works well.
mod6: asciilifeform: cool, got it.
mod6: yeah, lots to do still.
mod6: im up to 490 on the foundation's node @ piz.
deedbot: ossabot voiced for 30 minutes.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-08-30 16:31:43 asciilifeform: diana_coman's actually faster, from usa, than mine .
diana_coman: ftr the isp guys were very prompt and willing to do as asked; although one has to ask for the most basic of things, they at least do it
diana_coman: asciilifeform: you are right; let's redo then
diana_coman: asciilifeform: ah, you mean that curl doesn't follow the redirect, right.
BingoBoingo: The clear understandable part is the hot water. They need that for their Mate pipes