trinque: I am referencing our glorious head of state's comments re: business
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00070883 = 6.7339 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00071879 = 7.3317 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.0006982 = 8.4482 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> that's the new usg catchword for 'bitcoin agrees to quietly kill itself because That Is How The World Works' ? << in a word, yes.
mircea_popescu: and iirc xapo founder was trying his darndest to elicit attention here to little result.
mircea_popescu: trinque let them get invested, all the more shit to pretend like "never happened".
mircea_popescu: like the scam foundation never pushed bfl and so forth.
mircea_popescu: "the man who really invented bitcoin" has a lot to explain re my cock up his throat.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00069809 = 6.7017 BTC [-]
gribble: Time since last block: 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 30 seconds
gribble: Current Blocks: 371981 | Current Difficulty: 5.425663032788996E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 372959 | Next Difficulty In: 978 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 12 hours, 28 minutes, and 48 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6229 @ 0.00071318 = 4.4424 BTC [+]
gribble: Time since last block: 1 minute and 54 seconds
mircea_popescu: i think the latter kids don't really grok this "don't reboot machine " thing
☟︎ mircea_popescu: dulap may be the latest piece of software in actual use that yeah
mircea_popescu: dulap may be the latest piece of software in actual use that doesn't actually benefit from periodic rebooting
☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's a limit on how many humans may be people at the same time
mircea_popescu: WHERE the actual cosmos is in this entire new "computer universe" never ceases to shock and amaze.
mircea_popescu never could have predicted the "should be enough for anyone" magic number really discusses "how manby people may be alive"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6150 @ 0.00070937 = 4.3626 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, at meta-kehlsteinhaus, herr metahitler plays metahide&seek with meta-y maids.
phf: i forgot that event existed, probably got thrown out during the move, along with my copy of занимательная физика by perelman
phf: i had a friend, who run a fido node from his apartment, who looked exactly like that cat, if that's even possible
trinque: translation of the caption?
phf: "what sort of information can a computer output to the monitor?" "oh, all kinds..."
phf: biggest disappointment of my schools years, turns out that "flea balloon" idea doesn't quite work
☟︎ phf: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al: dulap rebooted today for no reason known to me. << if you start evaluating new hosting solutions, try these guys
http://www.tummy.com. uptime on my box 529 days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00070072 = 10.0553 BTC [-] {3}
phf: asciilifeform: i thought dulap hosting was stateside. shame, tummy people are excellent at what they do
Bingo_VACAY: Kidneys agents surround me. May have to dick my way out
punkman: Bingo_VACAY: did you get the job?
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00069933 = 2.5875 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9368 @ 0.00069933 = 6.5513 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13584 @ 0.0006966 = 9.4626 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.00070527 = 1.4811 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00070413 = 5.0345 BTC [-]
punkman: "Mr. Ali noted the popularity of Facebook groups such as “Smuggle Yourself to Europe Without a Trafficker.”"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00070173 = 8.6664 BTC [-]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8308 @ 0.00069638 = 5.7855 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00069638 = 1.7758 BTC [-]
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00069638 = 1.8106 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00070535 = 2.4687 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.00070513 = 5.1122 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00070513 = 3.2083 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6370 @ 0.00070241 = 4.4744 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6316 @ 0.00070961 = 4.4819 BTC [+] {3}
btcdrak: mircea_popescu: I know your views about XTcoin, but what are your views about raising the blocksize limit by proper technical consensus and released through Bitcoin Core?
☟︎ gribble: Time since last block: 13 minutes and 46 seconds
mircea_popescu: that's her right nipple and her left tit under that pinkish mess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8400 @ 0.00069942 = 5.8751 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 11:36:42; btcdrak: mircea_popescu: I know your views about XTcoin, but what are your views about raising the blocksize limit by proper technical consensus and released through Bitcoin Core?
mircea_popescu: fucking monkeys already. so he fucks up, once by getting involved in a piece of shit scam, the other for sucking at math. and what he wants to know ain't "i wonder how i could be less fucktarded" at any point.
mircea_popescu: instead it's "hey, let's fix my being a monkey with more monkeying around!"
mircea_popescu: /0xfe6404ba34ea4c30538ff4d058f4bf883220fd79 is the fucking aliens, how about that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00069842 = 1.327 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "I told him not to worry about it, because so long as he built something good enough to spread by word of mouth, he'd have a hyperlinear growth curve. If he was bad at extracting money from people, at worst this curve would be some constant multiple less than 1 of what it might have been. But a constant multiple of any curve is exactly the same shape. The numbers on the Y axis are smaller, but the curve is just as stee
mircea_popescu: p, and when anything grows at the rate of a successful startup, the Y axis will take care of itself."
mircea_popescu: i thought graham was supposed to be a competent old lisp hand. is this the brainrot lisp instills in people ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "Some examples will make this clear. Suppose your company is making $1000 a month now, and you've made something so great that it's growing at 5% a week. Two years from now, you'll be making about $160k a month.
mircea_popescu: Now suppose you're so un-rapacious that you only extract half as much from your users as you could. That means two years later you'll be making $80k a month instead of $160k. How far behind are you? How long will it take to catch up with where you'd have been if you were extracting every penny? A mere 15 weeks. After two years, the un-rapacious founder is only 3.5 months behind the rapacious one."
mircea_popescu: here's what i propose : paul graham eat 500 calories for every 1k calories he expends.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: he's so hyperfucktarded, he's only going to be 50% behind actual entrepreneurs.
mircea_popescu: rather than the 99.94% his piece of shit "ventures" are currently.
mircea_popescu: so techniucally it'd be an improvement. and if he stops eating at all and instead starts puking edible vomit like some sort of invertebrate cornucopia, he might even be socially useful FOR ONCE IN HIS SAD EXISTENCE
mircea_popescu: i've been up an hour i've been reading nothing but scandalous stupidity.
mircea_popescu: afaik they're about as fucktardedly puritan as the anglos
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 13:57:20; mircea_popescu: i thought graham was supposed to be a competent old lisp hand. is this the brainrot lisp instills in people ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look at this perhaps very worrisome set of two examples.
mircea_popescu: 1) naggum spent his mind on thinking about lisp, ended up a 40year old too fucktarded to get out of the rain. this is literally what happened, and one will have a lot of trouble talking around the failure of some guy to avoid dying of perforated ulcer.
mircea_popescu: 2) graham spent his mind on thinking about lisp, ended up a 60 yo too fucktarded to understand even the most basic points of math.
mircea_popescu: this "take one side of the story and run with it" is speciufic of ambitious if none too bright 15 yo boys.
punkman: asciilifeform: he had his own lisp and I think he published the code that ran HN at some point
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform name a guy who did lisp and survived mind intact.
assbot: Logged on 24-08-2014 21:40:36; *: asciilifeform had a dream many years ago that his grandfather took an ancient grinding wheel from workshop, turned it upside-down, and taught him to ride it. and now people actually do something quite like this.
mircea_popescu: maybe you're right, and it's incidentals. or maybe lisp to the young mind is like meth-lsd
mircea_popescu: not that i'm persuaded, but one can't not notice the coincidence.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the "scam money rots your brain" think is also a very powerful theory.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in computing (the actual kind) the record's not as bad as in most other disciplines.
mircea_popescu: and re vi - whatever!!1 i used it for years. nowadays i find i mostly use nano. then again nowadays i mostly read other people's reports.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: this is what being intelligent means : the more intelligent you are, the less often you get more than what you put into things.
punkman: editing text in a console drives me mad
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also, art is always and by definition a -ev activity, and people engage in it. for that matter, love and childmaking idem.
mircea_popescu: so there's a number of different problems with this "ev activity" line of reasoning.
mircea_popescu: i write the occasional bit of poetry/literature, and i don't either regard it as some sort of gain or myself as insane (for it)
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:34:29; ascii_field: far more interesting is the trait hasn eysenck called 'psychoticism'
mircea_popescu: i see little more at work than utter contempt for "fellow man" in the common sense this is given.
mircea_popescu: that most creative people throughout the ages would prefer to pretend "they're insane" rather than make plain their complete inadherence to the mob is readily understandable
mircea_popescu: a housewife is exactly that : someone completely adherent to the mob. so much so she can spend all her time with children and not care.
mircea_popescu: maybe a sufficient approach if all you care about is handling and predicting
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the model breaks down on low states. which is why the housewife is such a problem for your approach : she's hot alright.
mircea_popescu: it is generally rare to find a woman so stupid her actual optimal level is housewifing.
mircea_popescu: it is rare, yes. look at the normal distribution, between say 88 and maybe 75 you get what, 4% of the population ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you get 0.0726 between -1.15 and -.85 deviation.
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mircea_popescu: i guess the formula probably is, "the predominance of women best suited for housewifing equals the unit divided by the maximal litter of a woman"
mircea_popescu: same hit people going to work for a bureaucracy exhibit.
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is WHY we only care to fuck women < 20something. that's it. after she's moved on to office life, you can have her.)
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between wanting to use your brain as a general thing,
mircea_popescu: and wanting everything you do to be driven by your brain.
mircea_popescu: the former's sane, the later's of the same ilk as children going to bed in their favourite clothes
mircea_popescu: whereas fuctkarded abstractions fucktarded people come up with greatly, and i do mean GREATLY benefit from a spanking.
diana_coman: asciilifeform> don't discount the iq hit apparently imposed by spawning <- interesting theory, as a mother of a 3yo I can say that the only way I can see that work is mainly due perhaps to sleep deprivation
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i bet you it's primarly driven by internalised expectations.
diana_coman: and no, I don't spend my whole day in a room with small children (and even when I do play with the lo, I find myself quickly ending up basically explaining graph theory on his train set/track or something other - not out of some idea that it will make him a genius, but out of boredom, yes)
mircea_popescu: rearing children is perhaps not so unlike going to reeducation camp for a few years. it "didn't work" on a. solzhenitsyn. it DID work, obviously, on all the schmucks he knows by name but you do not. so...
☟︎ diana_coman: there is a big shock in the first year for sure
mircea_popescu: diana_coman which is how camp inmates ended up teaching linguistics lmao
diana_coman: but not sure why/how/whether that shock really is about brain matter shrinking or something
diana_coman: oh, the first days/weeks or so yeah, hormones all over the place and funny stuff (such as forgetting why I went to a room or another or stuff like that)
diana_coman: fwiw children actually enjoy even graph theory (if explained on train track sets) so no, it's not as if one has to really dumb down necessarily just for being with them
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 15:24:37; mircea_popescu: rearing children is perhaps not so unlike going to reeducation camp for a few years. it "didn't work" on a. solzhenitsyn. it DID work, obviously, on all the schmucks he knows by name but you do not. so...
mircea_popescu: diana_coman again, matter of internalised expectations.
mircea_popescu: children, inasmuch as they're yours, expect exactly what they're getting and will be equally thankful for it, which is why a six year old is happy whether poor african or rich swede, just as long as he's with his mother.
diana_coman: yes, but more than that, they are actually curious (as far as I can tell and not only based on mine) and enjoy something new - they don't care about the level really, so it's more a matter of what the other people can "feed" them really
diana_coman: sure, they will be equally delighted with someone speaking gibberish to them
diana_coman: but that doesn't mean that you *have* to speak gibberish to them
mircea_popescu: exactly. you don't have to grow fat and stupid now that you have kids. but if you expect to, sure, you will.
mircea_popescu: and they don't have to learn about santa and the guy in the sky. they will, sure, if that's what you wanna tell me.
diana_coman: lolz, I guess if I am, then I will, won't I?
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punkman: he figured out how to get !up's
refferedbyloper: son't be mean, but be paranoid :) i'm just lurking around reading logs
mircea_popescu: ". In the same way that the people who used to use BBS systems in small numbers that are dwarfed by the number of internet users, Bitcoin will undergo a similar transformation, with similar beneficial effects, only this time, penetrating more deeply into society at every level than what is simple net access today."
mircea_popescu: because i'd so totally trade a mile of "internet" by which our friend of course means retardorama web 2.0, for an inch of bbs.
mircea_popescu: fortunately the point is exactly that bitcoin doesn't work like that.
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8552 @ 0.00070108 = 5.9956 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, re the constant empress cixi references : the esteemed duke of wellington also contributed "Depend upon it, Sir, nothing will come of them!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00070354 = 1.0553 BTC [+]
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trinque: does this "psychoticism" mean something like willingness to act *upon* a person or *through* them?
trinque: made me recall "ready-to-hand" from heidegger
mircea_popescu: i'd rather expect it's "a reckless disregard of life and property".
trinque: if that, I don't see immediately how it could be an advantage.
trinque: disregard certainly, depending on towards what
trinque: but if I disregard my nailgun, might not get useful results
trinque: hearing aids have made quite the improvements over the years
mircea_popescu: trinque you familiar with the "psychotic" observation of poincarre (the president, not the other one) that "universal lack of suffering may never be a policy goal, for the simplest means to effect it would be simply killing everyone" ?
trinque: I wasn't, but I see the sense in it.
mircea_popescu: well it is also in what a government of women would hold (and in those countries which do allow such nonsense, do hold) as reckless disregard of their litter.
trinque: naturally they would, though what's sensible with a narrow view may be insane from a broader perspective
trinque: so I don't think I disagree, just that "who says it's reckless?"
mircea_popescu: and no, "what's sensible with a narrow view may be insane from a broader perspective" doesn't hold because "every sperm is sacred" and assorted nonsense
trinque: I suppose its obvious, but it points to an inherent conflict between the sexes.
trinque: even more extreme in other species
trinque: getting eaten after mating and such
mircea_popescu: you can't really have anything even resembling homeostasis in systems without contrary forces.
mircea_popescu: which is why "a life free of conflict" is such ridoinculous contradiction in terms.
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase in 2015 :: 3.84 B (13%) on Yes, 26.68 B (87%) on No | closing in 2 months 2 weeks | weight: 24`943 (100`000 to 1) ... (
http://bit.ly/1MUlaZd )
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 14:21:49; mircea_popescu: and re vi - whatever!!1 i used it for years. nowadays i find i mostly use nano. then again nowadays i mostly read other people's reports.
trinque: vi modal editing is superior
trinque: I use evil in emacs for this very reason
trinque: I have no idea who thought these emacs "chords" were a good thing, but fuck that person
☟︎ ben_vulpes: trinque: if i actually wrote code, i'd be more inclined to use evil.
trinque: I enjoy the use of my hands
ben_vulpes: as it is, the bulk of my time is spent performing archaeology.
ben_vulpes: speedup from modal editing would be negligible.
trinque: just a matter of staying off the modifier keys; I use space as leader and various sequences of keys from there, usually involving index and middle fingers
mircea_popescu: really, alf proposed a half truth when he said that if handling the mechanics of signing are the major time eater, one's clearly not doing enough work with the patches.
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, if the writing part's the big problem, one's clearly not thinking enough.
☟︎ trinque: ben_vulpes: not really a speedup; I've just moved common emacs operations towards the middle of the keyboard
ben_vulpes: trinque: mircea_popescu's gist here is eerily similar to mr W's
trinque: switching buffers is space-space
mircea_popescu: for the record, /me holds the above way above theft and rape. it is the sort of intellectual dishonesty that should result in being drawn and quartered.
ben_vulpes: when i go full scammatronics vc bezzle the office campus will be navigated with 'solowheel' 'orbits'
☟︎ ben_vulpes: regarding graham, the focus on macros in his (published) work puts me off a bit. "look at the monstrous edifice of complexity i can hold within my mind!" instead of "look at this useful and easily fit-into-head thing i made".
☟︎ trinque: ben_vulpes: seems generally you should always have a damned good reason for introducing new syntax
trinque: what that damned good reason might be still is not entirely clear to me
trinque: setf seems like an example of a good macro, where the general notion of "set the thing, whatever it is, to this value" is expanded to whatever the appropriate way to set that thing is
mircea_popescu: seems to me by the time i dun know anymore how to fill the something with water i have a problem more serious in there.
trinque: could be a slot on an object, could be some symbol
trinque: and the value would be an expression to evaluate
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:24:20; trinque: I have no idea who thought these emacs "chords" were a good thing, but fuck that person
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2015 02:20:39; the_scourge: 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else.
http://www.xach.com/na < funny, that's one of t
trinque: but yes, that perspective is also sensible. "know what you're dealing with"
mircea_popescu: if i want you to set a vector to "4" do i mean 4.0, 4.0, 4.0 ? do i mean 4.0, 0.0, 0.0 ie the 1st invariant ? do i mean 4.0, 1.0, 1.0 ie the 2nd invariant ? do i simply mean 4.0, normal, normal ? what normal ?
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:26:00; mircea_popescu: in point of fact, if the writing part's the big problem, one's clearly not thinking enough.
mircea_popescu: for that matter setting a rate of flow gauge (like say a tap) to "4" is not in any sense similar to setting a wallet to contain "4". it's more alike "4x", really.
mircea_popescu: intuitive impression to the contrary notwithstanding, values do not contain their own definition.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:44:04; ben_vulpes: regarding graham, the focus on macros in his (published) work puts me off a bit. "look at the monstrous edifice of complexity i can hold within my mind!" instead of "look at this useful and easily fit-into-head thing i made".
ben_vulpes: what do you have against the delegateHoldingMyHandWhileComplexThingsHappenThatNeedToCallTheSystemStateMachineWithSpecificInformation pattern, eh?
ben_vulpes: it is a very useful contract for writing code with other beebul!
trinque: naggum on lisp not turning people into cogs
ben_vulpes: well until trinque writes his database-inspecting UI generator, i'm stuck building machines that write software to extract data from databases and render it and manipulatory widgets for it.
trinque: ben_vulpes: thing's probably like... clim and clos at this point
trinque: and I've postponed working on that thinger indefinitely, reviewing the literature :p
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: just doesn't understand How The Werld Werks (tm)
trinque: and then really, if you're dealing in the modern software "market", wtf is CLIM on an iPhone?
phf: mathematica is basically lisp written by a person who understood lisp, but hated lisp
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 21:17:14; ascii_field: wolfram is sui generis. owns a tame publisher, for instance
trinque: lol, I'd assumed the book was published somewhere with a sense of humor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.0006982 = 18.0834 BTC [-] {3}
phf: well, also "В СССР секса нет"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00071676 = 13.7618 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 17:33:16; ben_vulpes: when i go full scammatronics vc bezzle the office campus will be navigated with 'solowheel' 'orbits'
mircea_popescu: this is actually a perfectly legitimate reason to take things from idiots
mircea_popescu: (/me is still unpersuaded anyone involved in lisp to date isn't an idiot)
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin started with unnamed guy, then essentially vanished. except contemporary idiots using "blockchain technologies""
mircea_popescu: or for making it impossible for the lot to exert any further control.
mircea_popescu: ape may steal from man ; but man can not steal from ape. everything man takes from ape is glory.
mircea_popescu: this discussion made me intuit a strange sort of reverse-marxism.
mircea_popescu: for everything the common man "has" is a) not his good property and b) acquired by him through some osrt of redistribution or other
mircea_popescu: and so everythiong the common man has must be taken from him, right now.
mircea_popescu: historically various accidental constraints made the construction of one's ideas vulnerable, and he ended up sharing some part with the mob
phf: i thought esotericism and knowledge guilds is how it was done until quite recently?
phf: i have a very romantic view of guilds then, more like b-a, less then hacker news, but then i grew up on romantic literature
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can conduct an experiment where i get together six poor africans, who then proceed to get drunk and be stupid, and say "lo! this is man" and you'll say "gtfo these niggers out of hewre, they're unrepresentative".
mircea_popescu: how do you figure chimps are representative ? why not go ask the ruminants of the fucking plains.
mircea_popescu: and it is not about "the effects". it is abour social organisation, which is supposed to be a culturally normated activity.
mircea_popescu: so no : i am not rawl's "any other man" and so very much less am i some derp's three dozen chimps.
mircea_popescu: for all you know he picked from the wrong chimp country.
mircea_popescu: except in places (like shown by this experiment) where he does.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, go, write "a lisp such that any other man would see the wisdom in it and b e able to use it to whatever purpoise without bothering to learn it, or even read his own code"
mircea_popescu: it works great to distinguish chimpalikes aka ciumpalaci.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, horse medicine works to some degree on some people.
mircea_popescu: yet, to stay in the same anecdotal universe, whatever the шарашка proves about the fundamental worthlessness of "intellectuals", the vory/suka dispute prove that man is still not chimp.
trinque: perhaps it's a question like "why doesn't the queen bee have to haul all this pollen?"
trinque: and wouldn't a human leader also be said to have a biological function?
trinque: like a social supernode which organizes the activity of other nodes
trinque: sure but that'd be maybe a degenerate case of the thing
gernika: mircea_popescu can I snag a eulora account?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how tyrannical /were/ the Symbolics licenses?
ben_vulpes: and the symbolics machines could run c as we
ben_vulpes: as well*, right? many other languages too.
ben_vulpes wonders at the notion of runtime debuggability of c-through-lisp
ben_vulpes: myeah, i can see that. how would it have handled modern nixy proggies?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3488 @ 0.00069961 = 2.4402 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: perhaps "you may not share your patches with anyone else who does not have a license for my original copy of $p"
ben_vulpes: as, of course, verified by your signing a license to their key.
ben_vulpes: you've not made anything worth paying for, then.
ben_vulpes: oh it's even harder than that, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: it has to be commercially viable in this wot.
ben_vulpes: regarding the "may i" spamola, you could issue a license to a trivially-generated pubkey.
ben_vulpes: some sort of parity with extant licensing schemes.
trinque: that speaks more to the "for free" than to the work, doesn't it?
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:48; mircea_popescu: the idea here being that people wouldn't pay for a sane os for the same reason they won't payfor the sun.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:23; mircea_popescu: mkay. lemme explain something about markets to you. the sun is infinitely valuable, to the exclusion of all else. nobody (tm) would consider paying for it, and in no case would they pay anything close to fair value (why this is so should be thermodynamically obvious). meanwhile, ipads have no utility and go for hundreds by the million. on top of them, jackpot machine simulations sell for more $$$.
trinque: could instead decide that you'll use your software powers to cynically crap out anything with a price tag.
trinque: meanwhile inside the company building tools to make the crapping ever easier
trinque: well, that seems to be the only way to amass the capital to do interesting things, at least from where I sit.
danielpbarron: asciilifeform> perhaps ben_vulpes can become the hero who makes that unicorn, a software worth paying for.. << Eulora bots.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 14:17:13; mircea_popescu: and yes, the "scam money rots your brain" think is also a very powerful theory.
phf: graham and naggum are probably not the best examples of lispers. graham wrote cgi scripts for clisp in vi and had unhealthy obsession with macros, did a web startup and sold it at the right time. naggum if he was a little bit dumber would've just been a kook, considering his completely insane angry rants. (and i learned a lot from naggum, but i don't think the manner of his death was a surprise)
phf: there's greenblatt, tom knight, david moon, daniel weinreb, guy steele, peter norvig, abelson&sussman, jack holloway. stallman and minsky. not to mention cracauer, eller, fahlman, maclachlan, rme, ron garret of the later people that i know of, tons of people i'm forgetting.
trinque: every business on earth needs tools to classify and count their things, and to answer useful questions with this information.
trinque: and the tools are all shit
phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies
☟︎☟︎ trinque: I could see a scheme where you make a general solution to that problem which you do not sell.
trinque: you derive specific solutions and sell those
trinque: yeah but you're thinking like a scientist
trinque: this needs no perfect solution to be better than what's available
trinque: just "I can count all my damn beakless chickens" and so on
trinque: and it farts out reports I give to my accountant
trinque: right, you're a scientist. meanwhile I'd love to have the market on traffic cones cornered.
trinque: ah but who wants to be that big and bloated
trinque: can make a fine pile for yourself in some niche nobody ever heard of
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:40:56; phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, qq: are you going to post the modified vdiff.sh (creation of vpatch w/o timestamps) to the ml, or will it be included with your next submission of the full working solution?
mod6: so i see, obv., the one that was submitted with The Full Orchestra, but i don't see your updated one that looks like:
mod6: diff -uNr \$1 \$2 | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{s="sha512sum \"" \$2 "\" 2>/dev/null " | getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print \$1 " " \$2 " " o} !m { print \$0 }'
mod6: bah, well disregard the above -- as this came from my orc.sh script with escaped shell vars, but you get the point i think.
phf: иваныч суконах у мартышек то все как у человеков
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:35:24; asciilifeform: i mean, why would i want to do ~any~ per-user work in distributing something ~for free~ ?!
phf: by the way that script above needs a close i.e. ... if (s) { close(s); ...
punkman: asciilifeform: trinque: go and sell 'it' if it doesn't read&write microshit excel format. i'll watch. << I've written lots of these, it's called .csv
phf: i think gnu awk closes implicitly but a bsd one keeps the fd's open and eventually runs into open file limits
punkman: asciilifeform: customer can learn to export csv or fuck off most of the time
mod6: I'm currently working on the SoBA to close out the month, would like to point at the vdiff.sh that creats w/o timestamps in the document. Only reason that I bring it up. Thanks for taking a look. Wasn't sure if I missed it somehow.
trinque: because the CSV one requires him no work but to change the save-as type, or w/e
☟︎ punkman: if excel did s-expr, sure why not
trinque: also this is a matter of sales, not education
ben_vulpes: sometimes one goes to a cafe to meet a customer instead of demanding they come to ones office.
punkman: on a similar note, customer asks for mongodb, but "I used sqlite because you are retarded"
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:00:15; trinque: because the CSV one requires him no work but to change the save-as type, or w/e
ben_vulpes: go talk to the cfo about the cat pictures.
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:13:22; asciilifeform: that does not work with gimp.
trinque: I gotta run for a bit unfortunately.
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
ben_vulpes: in a healthy relationship, the consultant keeps the customer from making bad decisions in areas in which the customer has no business making decisions.
mod6: asciilifeform: sounds good. thanks for doing that.
mod6: trinque: just have to wait until next block before it shows up in the deedbot.org list?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can't, you'd poison 'em.
trinque: mod6: shall pop out at the next hour
mod6: trinque: fantastic. thanks.
trinque: it's rather dumb, doesn't watch for blocks in the log, though that'd be nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9192 @ 0.0007193 = 6.6118 BTC [+]
mod6: this thing has a cool 0x00FF00 && 0x000000 website
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:04:49; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: vdiff is 0k!
punkman: trinque: would deedbot notice a bundle tx that got reorg'd out of main chain?
mod6 ribs trinque a bit :D
phf: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: take me to this planet of 'healthy relationships.' << i am equally confused by this position. non serviam doesn't necessarily need to translate to its extreme expression. if you're that figured out how to push the lever, i think the last option that you can possibly have is to keep pushing the lever for others. once you accept it to its logical conclusion, are you not free to do as you please?
mod6: lol, the css 'solid green', appears slightly different tone than 0x00FF00 on thebitcoin.foundation, or is it just my eldery eyes?
phf: sure, korolev was tested by that limit, and i'm not in his position, so i can't say "сука буду i've offed myself", but when the choice is between doing csv and sexp for a customer..
mod6: anyway, not that it need be the same. just curious.
ben_vulpes: i do not get the 'non serviam' routine. we all serve the khan.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00071112 = 8.0712 BTC [-]
phf: bakunin has equally shameful confessions written to nicholas i
phf: well, in the case ulbricht his plea was dumb, the point which you guys consistently drive in other cases
phf: right, also same point at which aaronsw chose to off himself
phf: no atheists in foxholes and all that
gernika: !rate phf 2 got Eulora working on McOs
assbot: You rated user gernika on 04-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you measure exactly how much it is impacted ?
☟︎ mod6: ;;later tell davout You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i read it b4. iirc we had it in chan even
mod6: ;;later tell punkman You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
mod6: ;;later tell jurov You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
jurov: no i was too busy and then on afk vacation
mod6: ah. ok. np. thanks!
mod6: how's it goin anywya?
punkman: mod6: I tested stator on Mint. didn't leave it running for full sync though
mod6: punkman: hey! glad i asked. thanks :]
mod6: i guess i do remember this now.
mod6: chettty & mircea_popescu: btw, eulora seems to be functioning well since changes. although, i don't use any automation in there. just good ole hard rock minin' by hand. with a mule^H^H^H^Himproved pickaxe.
mod6: punkman: any specfic version of mint?
trinque: punkman: I have not handled that case. As I understand it, transactions would then go back into the mempool for inclusion in a subsequent block.
trinque: I could run over all previous records at some long-ish interval and see whether that occurred, update db accordingly.
mod6: ;;later tell danielpbarron You did test out rotor w/TEST2 or stator this month right? Or did I mis-remember that?
mod6: i'll put that in there. "Linux Mint, 13-14ish." :P
mod6: danielpbarron: still have it? try to fire it up see if it it rotates.
mod6: yup, that's required on every system that i've encountered when built with the `rotor'.
mod6: just see if you can get it to start up and sync some blox
danielpbarron: Bitcoin version 0.5.4-beta << I'm currently running this, made with the rotor instructions
mod6: this should do the trick: `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 &`
☟︎ mod6: ah, ok. was it a handrolled build or stator?
punkman: anyone try the final debug_sanity_part1 patch?
mod6: but built with rotor, cool. what OS?
mod6: punkman: naw, i haevn't had a chance yet. i'll get to it though, it's on my list.
mod6: danielpbarron: ah neat. kthx
punkman: I might work on part2 this week
punkman: also thinking of making a fork that doesn't mine/wallet
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:43:25; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you measure exactly how much it is impacted ?
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 21:09:21; mod6: this should do the trick: `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 &`
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:22:08; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: dulap rebooted today for no reason known to me.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:48:13; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu potentially interesting observation: dulap has been ~50 blocks behind semi-permanently since reboot. in as far as i can tell, it is not mainly from 'blackholing' but due to cpu starvation! on account of phuctor re-grinding the product...!
punkman: why shit where phuctor eats?
trinque: seems science requires a patron, or at least greatly benefits from one.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:47:55; mircea_popescu: i think the latter kids don't really grok this "don't reboot machine " thing
trinque: ^ that point about the kids these days and rebooting, bleh. no kidding.
trinque: oh ruby just leaks memory, of course it does
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:48:54; mircea_popescu: dulap may be the latest piece of software in actual use that doesn't actually benefit from periodic rebooting
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:49:45; asciilifeform: not only does it not, but it absolutely impossible to do anything re: the running product having to be recalculated on warmup without 1) increasing complexity 25x 2) slowing down processing palpably
trinque: yeah, you want a ton of fast RAM, I'd assume, and not want to be writing to disk constantly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "how much cpu does it have available while floating 50 blocks behind"
mircea_popescu: but in no small part (to answer punkman's q) this experiment is interesting to me specifically to see how well things do in cramped spaces.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also im pretty sure power didn't actually fail. derpy kids doing things to fix things etc.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 21:45:00; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also im pretty sure power didn't actually fail. derpy kids doing things to fix things etc.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 21:44:26; mircea_popescu: but in no small part (to answer punkman's q) this experiment is interesting to me specifically to see how well things do in cramped spaces.
mod6: lemme check the horde
jurov: or case resonates with passing trains
jurov: yea, was going to write that exactly
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 18:28:39; mircea_popescu: greatness doens't get to skip a generation./
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00071136 = 5.5842 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i<asciilifeform> only swept under carpet << of course.
mircea_popescu: the nsa approach to software issues is not "how can we fix this" but "how can we pretend this is fixed while really we can just keep it in sleeve for later because you never know". fnargl through and through.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes well i have nobody with an axe to ship there rightnao
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and i don't think i've not gotten scammed for any item i bought or service i hired since at least 1875.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3548 @ 0.00071136 = 2.5239 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7340 @ 0.00071112 = 5.2196 BTC [-]
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I work a lot but have a new crush. 5/10?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12940 @ 0.00070893 = 9.1736 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11450 @ 0.00071946 = 8.2378 BTC [+] {5}
shovel_boss: this register and login system with your bot sucks
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: more specifically, I'd love to hear more about the justice system some time
mircea_popescu: overdrawn but unenforceable "rights" of the common man, endless trials, complete disjunction between law and commerce, the works.
gabriel_laddel: Do you have a database of all the judges, the lawyers who frequent their courts etc?
mircea_popescu: and a deeply ignorant population which imagines its vague notions of ethics and fairness are worth two shits, mostly through being so useless and inept that they never get to check said in any sort of practice.
mircea_popescu: such a thing is not for sale past what you get publicly anyway, the bar has a list.
moonpunter: never understood the "commoner" paradigm. what is this a magic deck? if so, i'm a ltd. ed. rare holofoil, bitches.
mircea_popescu: in a generous reading, students and other tramps are somehow in a liberal profession.
moonpunter: eh. i think your life is defined by your achievements. nothing against those with a lot, nothing against those with nothing. nothing against helping others by choice. etc. i just don't feel strongly about any of it. spend too much time selfishly focusing on my own life, i thinks.
trinque: rather artistic, that one. I like it
trinque: gabriel_laddel: in porn, do not fear the penis
trinque: moonpunter: whatsamatta with selfishness?
trinque: not bad at all; prepping a move back to Texas, enjoying life
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 23:38:33; mircea_popescu: achievements start with the first one.
mircea_popescu: it's really unfortunate they don't do presentation anymore.
pete_dushenski: i'm not sure i've been economically independent quite long enough to pen this myself
mircea_popescu: i guess there's the texas dip for girls "of society" which means ~jack anymore, and i suppose they still do bar mitzvah in some households but srsly...
trinque: sounds more like coming of age.
trinque: "we're going to begin expecting adult things of you now. act like it."
mircea_popescu: no i mean like, "here is this worm that came out of my wife. turns out it actually is a person!"
mircea_popescu: kinda degenerated into the french bacalaureat, which meanwhile became a "right" dontchaknow
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu well, a blog post ~on your own blog~ is pretty much as good as it gets atm
pete_dushenski: we have a short little 'brit milah' tmrw at the synagogue for meatwot (but no briss planned)
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 230.2, Best ask: 230.39, Bid-ask spread: 0.19000, Last trade: 230.39, 24 hour volume: 10095.17439433, 24 hour low: 227.16, 24 hour high: 234.03, 24 hour vwap: None
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell bingoboingo no real opinion of lifted minitrucks. lifting isn't really my thing, per se. but i can see the appeal.
trinque: and people use "natural" like it's a positive thing...
gabriel_laddel: and here I was under the impression stas didn't like penis.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 22:45:08; mircea_popescu: the nsa approach to software issues is not "how can we fix this" but "how can we pretend this is fixed while really we can just keep it in sleeve for later because you never know". fnargl through and through.