log
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asciilifeform: heya mod6
mod6: how goes toinght?
asciilifeform: epoxying, i shit thee not, a paid of shoes
asciilifeform: for the 3rd time
asciilifeform: *pair of
asciilifeform: because a) can't be arsed to go to town to get new one b) ain't like you can get nonchinese sandal anyway
mod6: haha. well, suppose you're getting good re-use out of them.
asciilifeform: still depressing; my emulated mircea_popescu sat on my shoulder invisibly laughing
mod6: yah, if you want !b, gotta make them yourself, or hire a sandal artisan of sorts.
mod6: lol
asciilifeform: i suspect he'd laugh even moar heartily if i were sitting and making own shoes
asciilifeform: 'if yer making shoes, you oughta be a shoemaker'
mod6: aha
asciilifeform: but say i also make own chair. then which must i be... shoe maker, or chair maker..?
asciilifeform: because it isn't as if you can get decent chair here.
mod6: yeah, everything is made with sawdust and cheap screws & glue.
trinque: gotta wedge the broomstick at the right angle, can sit and sweep simultaneously!
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674480 << haha savage☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 16:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << fwiw i carefully read all of it. asciilifeform's verdict: very much a gabriel_laddel-ization of gossipd. does 0 of the necessary work, and drags in 5+GB of liquishit deps (python, sql, some derp's crypto lib.) the amount of this that would have to be rewritten, from the ground, is 100%. not even useful as illustration of anything, because NONE of the actually complicated moving parts of a
asciilifeform pictures pogo stick stake
sina: mornin all
asciilifeform: sina: don't be discouraged
sina: not at all sir
asciilifeform: sina: but understand that the problem does not resolve to '200 lines of py' or would have been solved years ago and we'd all be using.
sina: yeah
asciilifeform: phf has a very similar gossipd in commonlisp, for instance
asciilifeform: and iirc trinque had another
asciilifeform: and asciilifeform yet other
asciilifeform: and... who knwos who else
trinque: one's even a hideous bashball
trinque: netcat and everything.
asciilifeform: sina: at least a few folx were playing with very similar things even before mircea_popescu wrote his essay
sina: I honestly didn't make it because I thought it would solve any problem, but only because I saw the spec and happen to be on holidays from work this week, thought it would be a good fun
sina: (and it was so far!)
asciilifeform: sina: one of the things gossipd needs is a constant-time-constant-space rsa. if you don't have one, enemy can derive your privkeys remotely based on timing.
sina: hows all today, is it time to rotate shift mod6?
asciilifeform: sina: i've been writing one, for some months now.
asciilifeform: !#s ffa
a111: 40 results for "ffa", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ffa
mod6: <+sina> hows all today, is it time to rotate shift mod6? << hows that?
sina: mod6: ah hehe you signed on just before I went to bed last night :P
mod6: ah, gotcha, hehe.
sina: asciilifeform: can you elaborate on timing? in my impl each peer-pair has its own set of corresponding RSA keys and I was thinking of adding something like, at the end of each session a new keypair is generated and exchanged on each side
mod6: everytime I think of a shoemaker/cobbler, i think of that character from A Tale Of Two Cities who used to be a Doctor before he did 18 years in the Bastille.
sina: well, not even generated, just assigned
asciilifeform: sina: are you familiar with the concept of timing side channel ?
sina: I am on the general points
asciilifeform: sina: if some % of the time i can determine how long it took you to carry out a secret key op (incl. key generation) i can determine a few bits of key. over time, i get 1/4 of them, and that is == to getting the rest.
sina: but do they not depend on measuring the timing over many operations?
asciilifeform: sina: not necessarily very many.
sina: but >1 ?
asciilifeform: not even necessarily >1.
sina: so my impl doesn't do this currently, but imagine it throws away the key after the session is established, no big deal then
asciilifeform: even 1, cuts the amount of practical work necessary to break your key, considerably.
asciilifeform: sina: again no
asciilifeform: and if you don't understand why, you should not be using rsa
asciilifeform: for one thing, there IS NO SESSION in gossipd (either my concept or either of mircea_popescu's two essays)
asciilifeform: there is rsa-only crypto.
asciilifeform: this means ALL ciphertext is the output of rsa modular exponentiations.
sina: session may be the wrong term. I just mean, in the spec http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ "III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is
asciilifeform: ( unlike, e.g., gpg, ssl, the rest of the shit soup )
sina: dropped."
asciilifeform: not reusing the keys would do 0
asciilifeform: i break ONE - i break whole chain.
asciilifeform: same statistics apply.
asciilifeform: sina: subject is considerably trickier than charlatans (e.g. schneier) let on. in fact, most of what is available on the net, is deliberate disinfo.
sina: ok fair point, I get the general need for constant time constant space algo regardless of gossipd stuff anyway
asciilifeform: sina: if you've been reading anything other than the logs, you have a great deal of catching up to do.
asciilifeform: ( this should not horrify, but encourage. the logs are a very handy resource. )
sina: I have been reading the logs, agreed they are handy
asciilifeform: sina: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Zy27g/?raw=true << current ffa.
sina: asciilifeform: if I'm not pestering let me throw a couple of questions. in my impl there are two secret operations, 1. key generation 2. challenge decryption. for #1, it runs in a different process on a random basis and marks a portion of the keys generated as bogus (per linked spec). that seems like it should sufficiently obfuscate against timing? for #2 is it possible to do some bogus ops in a similar
sina: vein? e.g. perform 3 parallel decryptions
asciilifeform: sina: this is a good q
asciilifeform: sina: and the answer is, interestingly: no
asciilifeform: ~no~ practical amount of noise adding is enough.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671568 << see also thread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 19:50 asciilifeform: the imho interesting part of this tale is that ~time~ is the most, it turns out, difficult side channel to properly cement shut
asciilifeform: and in particular http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671581 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 19:56 asciilifeform: idea of pll is that you can indeed see a lit match from mile away in daylight if you know 'exactly when to look'
sina: another thought, in my impl, even if you broke the key, all this nets you is the ability to have messages delivered to you from a single node
asciilifeform: that's if i break 1
asciilifeform: 1 ephemeral key. say i break the station key.
asciilifeform: ( by timing decrypts of session establish )
asciilifeform: and if i can break 1, can break any and all.
sina: sorry, define "station key"?
asciilifeform: long-term key.
sina: why would there be a long term key? I mean, right now in the impl the process to rotate a key is manual, but if you're using ephemeral key why not just "chain" them in the sense that at the end of the "session" you pass some ciphertext that includes the next ephemeral key, wait for delivery ack and then dump the old key?
sina: so no key is ever retained beyond a single "session"
asciilifeform: i can trivially tell when you've switched keys, strictly by looking at ciphertext ( is how rsa works. )
asciilifeform: if this is a surprise to you -- i recommend getting familiar with the basic arithmetic
sina: yeah no surprise
sina: can I clarify something? when you say gossipd are you assuming that all traffic is enciphered?
asciilifeform: now your homework : prove that an rsa-only channel MUST re-use every key at least once
asciilifeform: unless it sends only 1 message and then both sides call it quits and never speak again.
sina: I think we might be speaking at corss purposes and just wish to clarify that point before proceeding
asciilifeform: sina: yes. and it is not a far assumption, nobody will send plaintext wtf omfg
asciilifeform: sina: why do you think mircea_popescu mentioned rsa in his spec ? to keep the room warm with cpu heat ?
sina: ok fair. see, the spec I was working from it only mentions encryption for the "session establishment" so I assumed that encryption of actual message payloads was to be with out of band encryption
sina: and right now my impl does send everything except the challenge in plaintext!
asciilifeform: wtf is the point of even having the challenge then !
asciilifeform: if enemy can ALTER PLAINTEXT EN ROUTE AT WILL AND LIKEWISE READ ALL OF IT
sina: I assumed it was deedbot style OTP thing
asciilifeform: wtf is the point of writing a proggy that leads to this.
asciilifeform: no, it'd be a nickserv, sina
asciilifeform: 'ohai i authenticated and now lemme say [NSA INSERTS TEXT HERE] sincerely yours, mr.chump'
sina: asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-08#1399525☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-02-08 00:05 maqp: The point is, unless you encrypt the message, anyone might have created the plaintext
asciilifeform: there is NO reason why enemy should be able to read and alter at will traffic b/w 2 nodes.
sina: I got that impression from reading gossipd logs, obviously I didn't read everything ever because I only learned about the linespeed thing yesterday
asciilifeform: if i want this -- i will use irc.
asciilifeform: as in fact using now.
asciilifeform: irc is exactly 'gossipd without crypto'.
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-08#1399535☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-02-08 00:06 mircea_popescu: the only assurance to be had here comes from a gossipd model. where anyone could have written the plaintext, and for all anyone POORLY CONNECTED knows, they probably did.
asciilifeform: you gain NOTHING from the crypto unless it is applied correctly - i.e. to whole channel.
asciilifeform: sina: in the linked thread, mircea_popescu described why he did not want to use rsa ~signatures~
asciilifeform: for gossipd auth
asciilifeform: but instead ~decrypts~
asciilifeform: !#s opposable
a111: 17 results for "opposable", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=opposable
asciilifeform: ^ see also mega-thread re subj more recently
trinque: ^ great threads in there.
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-07#1399508☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-02-07 23:57 mircea_popescu: complete anonimity between peers more than one node removed ; complete secrecy outside of the node group ; no integrity or authenticity outside of the wot trust.
sina: perhaps I misread
asciilifeform: but INSIDE - must have integrity.
asciilifeform: or you have irc.
asciilifeform: this is elementary, and the fact that i have to, apparently, explain this, beggars the imagination
asciilifeform: WE ALREADY HAVE IRC!!
asciilifeform: and don't need irc-with-homeopathic-sprinkling-of-rsa for anything.
asciilifeform: (if i can unglue the auth from the payloads, because the latter are plaintext -- IT IS HOMEOPATHIC)
sina: asciilifeform: don't pop a vein, I absolutely get your point, I was trying to explain (erroneous or otherwise) the path walked
sina: again, I'm not proposing my impl as "hey you should use this!", only wanted to ask you some questions re timing
asciilifeform: sina: don't hesitate to ask
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform or whoever else. )
sina: asciilifeform: how about this simpler model. Nodes only accept connections at interval N seconds, and during time between intervals it is preparing encrypted payload of all messages since last seen for each peer. so when A connects to B and says "Hi, I'm A", B responds with a pre-prepared payload encrypted for As key
asciilifeform: EVERYONE eventually asks this
asciilifeform: re rsa
asciilifeform: answer: no
sina: can I ask how come no?
asciilifeform: the only way to make guaranteed time bound is... constant-time arithmetic
asciilifeform: because if i can make your thing spill out of the time 'box' which you made for it, i get >0 info re your key. again.
asciilifeform: and the only way to make it so that i can't -- and ~probably~ so -- is to do your arithmetic in constant time.
asciilifeform: i.e. no-branches-on-secret-bits.
asciilifeform: *provably
asciilifeform: not probably, lol
sina: any actual practical example of making it spill out of the time box? lets say two independent processes, one is preparing the payloads and putting them in an "outbox"
asciilifeform: understand: if your scheme cannot be proven to work : it does not work.
asciilifeform: say your time box is 1s
asciilifeform: while your rsa, for sake of argument, is 200-300ms long.
asciilifeform: now at some point your smm bios kicks in and spends 700ms adjusting fan speed. and i happen to know that this happens every whatever many seconds.
asciilifeform: now i know that a certain % of the time your 'box' is spilled out of.
asciilifeform: and it is == as not having the box.
asciilifeform: if i have this knowledge.
sina: I'm not sure I explained correctly. Please let me try one more time.
asciilifeform: arbitrary 'don't report the answer for T units of time' doesn't work, because you have no hard assurance of no spill.
asciilifeform: certainly not on a pc.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F26286E344AAD5DAC3259412DFD76A915DC0CA95AE6C819CC7F33B760D99DD19 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1593...2599 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.128.149.20 (ssh-rsa key from 62.128.149.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.ecg.co.uk. GB)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F26286E344AAD5DAC3259412DFD76A915DC0CA95AE6C819CC7F33B760D99DD19 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1542...2949 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.128.149.20 (ssh-rsa key from 62.128.149.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.ecg.co.uk. GB)
asciilifeform: sina: making 'constant time rsa' by trying to bury the rsa in a fixed 'box' of time, only works if you can guarantee LOWER bound of how long the rsa ops (ALL of them, till the end of time) take, as well as UPPER
asciilifeform: UPPER as well as LOWER, that is
asciilifeform: you gotta say 'it will return answer in EXACTLY t units of time, no less AND NO MORE'
asciilifeform: and the way to provably do this, is method called 'constant time arithmetic'
asciilifeform: illustrated in the earlier link.
sina: Imagine two independent processes. Process #1 is going through the list of peers and generating encrypted payload for unique peer key since last seen. When the payload is generated it places in outbox. Process #2 is running every N interval (1s example sure) to accept connections and deliver payloads from outbox. If for some reason Process #1 doesn't complete operation in time, it simply appears as if no
sina: messages are to be delivered for a given peer or set of peers.
asciilifeform: already you have made an assumption that is false on all extant hardware
sina: which is?
asciilifeform: it is not possible to make guaranteed-independent-timewise processes
asciilifeform: on a pc
asciilifeform: 1 ) you might have a box with 1 cpu
asciilifeform: 2) you might have a box with 2+ cpu where the scheduler puts both of your processes on 1
asciilifeform: 3) cache exists.
asciilifeform: and memory accesses will take variant time based on recent operations, by any and all threads.
asciilifeform: on any and all cpu cores.
sina: fine, what if we assume two independent computers
asciilifeform: describe what they do, and how connected
sina: same as above, but each computer houses 1 process respectively, connected over ethernet or whatever
asciilifeform: if they are connected, and communicate, they are not time-independent
asciilifeform: elementarily
asciilifeform: it doesn't matter what they are connected with.
asciilifeform: if you're sending bits from one to another, and using crypto that branches-on-secret-bits -- you are vulnerable.
asciilifeform: this is like the perpetuum mobile. you cannot argue your way out of fundamental constraint.
asciilifeform bbl.
sina: vulnerable to what, exactly, is the question? I am struggling to see how timing can be ascertained from that kind of model, but it's only a thought experiment so I can steal your brain juices
mircea_popescu waves
sina: howdy sir
mircea_popescu: nb!
mircea_popescu confirms that indeed js-of-mp and mp-en-managua are legitimate mps
sina: have fun in Managua?
mircea_popescu: after a fashion!
asciilifeform: wb mircea_popescu !
mircea_popescu: why ty
mod6: Hi mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: hola
sina: alrighty, gonna go do some human stuff. have a good week all!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674362 << speaking of bigots : so i'm walking with girl through utter shithole, true poverty area. stench of sewage in the air, houses made out of $200 in materials and so on. i spot a rabid dog by that sure sign of drooping salivation, so i go in between and keep my eye on it.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-25 22:30 erlehmann: BingoBoingo medusa magazine seems pretty reasonable, indeed https://medusamagazine.com/youre-a-bigot-if-you-wouldnt-have-sex-with-a-gay-friend
mircea_popescu: some idle kids playing with rocks notice and one yells out "don bigote! don bigote! no muerde el perro!"
mircea_popescu: and yes, the root is common.
asciilifeform: lol!!
mod6: haha wth?
asciilifeform: did the kidz also droop salivate
mircea_popescu: tis true. bigots = fixated people with beards you couldn't convince of your reasonable position, such as "the rabid dog doesn't bite" on the grounds of it not having bit yet, or "marrying your first cousin is fine" on the basis of hey, cunt that doesn't scare me!
asciilifeform: or notyet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notyet.
mircea_popescu: i expect the dysentery to get them first though, judging by certain anatomic details.
asciilifeform: shit where-they-stood a la africa ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think so.
asciilifeform: which detail then
mircea_popescu: ah ah. too much abdomen for how sad their ribcages were.
asciilifeform: ah so you meant dystrophy, not dysentery, neh
asciilifeform: 'auschwitz belly'
mircea_popescu: well, various distended bellies.
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to sewage : the thing civilised people generally fail to appreciate is just how insistently shit sticks to human agglomerations.
mircea_popescu: it dun wanna go so easily, that's fo sho.
asciilifeform: more of a case of finely evolved nose. we can smell it at nearly ppb.
mircea_popescu: that, also.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674379 << introductions aren't intended to be handled by gossipd. the correct way to do this is for me to say "add 8A56264EAD0BC4BD9CD7AC0086B488AB sina" which is a legitimate pubkey of your gossipd, AND for you to go whatever re mine. then they can talk, change keys etc. not before./☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 01:02 sina: but this presents a chicken/egg problem, where the peer "initiating" the addition will need to then advertise that key to the other peer and wait for a key back, and then initiate an update to the peer data to add in the advertised pubkey
mircea_popescu: gossipd should hot be able to discover peers. (if you think about it, the ability to discover peers is another way to say "leaking data").
asciilifeform: 'a discovered peer' == 'a sybil'
asciilifeform: sorta like 'shit stuck to bottom of shoe' is 'shit', and never snack
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, kinda what i meant yest. while he's actually trying to implement, he discovers these things. the result may not be usable, but its building will have been useful. otherwise his only option is to nod along, not really comprehending what he's agreeing with, or to "rebel", and have "his own opinion", except also not really comprehending what he's talking about.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which is why i said to d00d, 'don't be disheartened '
mircea_popescu: which is why we agree!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674422 << consider that the damage you already did to modern man's most important joint is permanent. do not add.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 05:39 ben_vulpes: on the "laptops suck" thread, now that i'm using an adult workstation most of the time, my hands start hurting after a bare thirty minutes on a 13" laptop kb
asciilifeform: crapple kbd is egregiously, insidiously deadly, has ~0 'give', is rather like pounding a table
asciilifeform: all day long...
mod6: it's the worst.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << i'll do this tomorrow, too displaced right nao for such werks.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 09:58 sina: if anyone wants to play https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd
mod6: i really like the new kb i've been using. took a little while to get use to, but hands feel good after all day typing.
asciilifeform: mod6: which is this
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674439 >> ahahaha☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 12:37 erlehmann: sina have you checked all your input against a formal grammar today?
mod6: concave job. 'kinesis advantage 2'
asciilifeform: mod6: even rubbish membrane kbd that came with my 486 -- beats crapple lappy
mod6: yeah, those are, like you said, like pounding on concrete
asciilifeform: the latter must've been designed as an active fuckyou to people who actually enter text
mod6: mhmm
mircea_popescu: you're prolly supposed to speak it or who knows what shambling idiocy.
asciilifeform: hard to picture such exquisite torture implement arising through mere happenstance
mod6: yeah, seems like hardly an accident. supposed to talk to the goddamn thing. as if.
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2017/06/supreme-court-lifts-lesser-court-injunctions-against-trump-travel-bans/ << i take it asciilifeform had no comment ? :D
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674488 <<< for some reason the illustration featured a hercules, which is a prop not a jet, but w/e.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 16:35 trinque: clearly needs to upgrade to the f35, it's 19 better.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674489 << sounds entirely like The Drepperization. which is very much the only american technology style left.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 16:35 asciilifeform: 'Ever since IS&T started to undergo "The Transformation", there has been a deliberate and systematic attempt to change Computing at MIT for the worse. Services that have been relied on for years have been discontinued and turned down, frequently without notice. Infrastructure critical to running MIT has been outsourced to cloud services during "emergency maintenance". Most of these changes had minimal impact on students and faculty,
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674495 << it's a... haaaard....lyffe!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 16:38 asciilifeform: they spent it all on... ethertardium?!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674511 <<< sadly this question is not unlike asking "has multiplication ever actually worked".☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 16:53 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674434 << has hyperthreading ever actually worked ? ( see also... http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/hyper-threading )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674534 << you can definitely make this in an evening by simply translating the extant lisp/python iirc impls.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 17:07 erlehmann: i am willing to abandon my redo efforts if v maketron suits my needs better. does there exist a v implementation in <500 lines of shell?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674899 << lol it takes time to generate commentz, i not long got back from long lulztrip☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:28 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2017/06/supreme-court-lifts-lesser-court-injunctions-against-trump-travel-bans/ << i take it asciilifeform had no comment ? :D
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674906 << ht is not a legitimate concept, like, e.g., pipelining, but instead an ill-conceived attempt to speed up 'winblows as it existed at the time'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:53 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674511 <<< sadly this question is not unlike asking "has multiplication ever actually worked".
asciilifeform: it does 0 to well-written code -- other than slow down, and -- behold -- sometimes breaks semantics entirely
asciilifeform: code that is built with awareness of the pipeline ~cannot~ leave any room for ht to have any useful effect - elementarily
asciilifeform: ( for n00bs : 'hyperthreading' attemps to marshal 'resources unused by the current instruction' - say, the ALU during a memory fetch - into becoming, through sleight of hand, 'a cpu core' that is , while said resources are available, behaving as a cpu, executing instructions )
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/06/26/racing-for-a-cure-6-edmonton/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Racing for a Cure 6 – Edmonton
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674592 << moreover, these are data containers, non reflective non recursive what's the similarity in tyhe fgirst6 place☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 17:29 asciilifeform: if 'full builds are infeasible', your tree is mis-structured.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674605 << possibly one of the least visible pillars of tmsr for newcomers, because in world of socialist liquid shit everything is "mutable" ie liquid shit, and not accidentally. but because the only way socialism may masquerade as "sensible" is through rendering the past meaningless.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 17:31 asciilifeform: no changing-of-the-past.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674631 << "flash crash" lulz. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-22#1673315☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 18:05 shinohai: Dat nearly 20% drop of ETH in 24 hrs >.>
a111: Logged on 2017-06-22 07:44 mircea_popescu: to satisfy http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672531 -- try and fuck with btc price, discover eth "price" was a joke all along.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674638 <<< it's a good thing that the successful introduction of ipv6 rendered such considerations mute.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 20:07 asciilifeform: from earlier, lulz, 'In April 2017, an unexpected and disruptive change was made to the MIT network: the sale of historically MIT-allocated IP address ranges to external entities such as Amazon. The sale wasn't announced to the MIT community until after it had taken effect. '
mircea_popescu: also amazon is only supporting python 3 with orcisms ; and other lulz.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674641 << awww.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 20:17 shinohai: http://archive.is/I9uUu #rekt
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674651 << while phf is right, nobody lasts forever, and linus is getting old.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 23:02 phf: nah, that's your monthly occurrence.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674323 << aha☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-25 17:01 mp-en-managua: apparently fucktards learned nothing of the doge slaughter, still believe "promotion" matters.
mircea_popescu: and in other disbeliefs, i can't imagine anyone'd fucking read that plaintive undisciplined-female-whining mailing list ffs. what the everloving fuck.
mod6: shit show
mircea_popescu: coding without v and without #t. how do they do it, i have nfi.
mircea_popescu lolzd at the whole shoe problem, because nicaragua has a healthy contingent of dumb white whores who went there to suck native cock and "get in touch with teh earth" paddling around barefoot in the streets and "learning" the "fascinating" how to twist a necklage together "antique traditional skills" sandy invented last decade.
mircea_popescu: but hey, at least they get buggered sore like a hobo's whore. that + gallo pinto > what they got at home.
mod6: heheheh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674687 << this is very much so, and very much why both a) http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671529 and b) there not being an auto-signatron or decryptatron or so forth deployed anywhere in teh vast expanses of la serenissima.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 00:57 asciilifeform: sina: one of the things gossipd needs is a constant-time-constant-space rsa. if you don't have one, enemy can derive your privkeys remotely based on timing.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 18:07 mircea_popescu: doth not entertain me
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674709 << it's not clear to me what he means by session ; might be some internal-only thing (eg, lifetime of particular sig) which isn't breaking.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:02 asciilifeform: for one thing, there IS NO SESSION in gossipd (either my concept or either of mircea_popescu's two essays)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1DD542B4BEF18F141C7B6941F77348DB7B711C2E59FD22B9BCF8389711074965 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1462...2939 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.24.157.30 (ssh-rsa key from 212.24.157.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (exchange.piccollo.cz. CZ)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1DD542B4BEF18F141C7B6941F77348DB7B711C2E59FD22B9BCF8389711074965 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1762...0867 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.24.157.30 (ssh-rsa key from 212.24.157.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (exchange.piccollo.cz. CZ)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> more of a case of finely evolved nose. we can smell it at nearly ppb. << Worst part of smoking cessation is having a sense of smell again. Still not sure it's worth it.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674940 << excepting the special case of the bots☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 04:53 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674687 << this is very much so, and very much why both a) http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671529 and b) there not being an auto-signatron or decryptatron or so forth deployed anywhere in teh vast expanses of la serenissima.
mircea_popescu: well, obv this is at teh ops option. but i'd have imagined that not excepting.
mircea_popescu: very trivial to make fixed time upping after all.
mircea_popescu: !!up hair_soup
deedbot: hair_soup voiced for 30 minutes.
hair_soup: shenanigans!
mircea_popescu: aaand who might you be
hair_soup: oh, ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: a ok
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:24 mod6: concave job. 'kinesis advantage 2'
BingoBoingo: !!up kcud_dab
deedbot: kcud_dab voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: !!up renart
deedbot: renart voiced for 30 minutes.
hair_soup: aaaand there it goes.
mod6: that was some uber lag
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: unless the bot is to stay down until the op awakes?
BingoBoingo has a simulated alf in head that complains Supreme Court review is too slow for Trumpreich to overturn all of the shitty lesser courts on everything
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes !!up and then !!v +5 mins ?
mod6: phf: nice, let me know if you get there. i'd like to re-map some of 'em too.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i mean to say in the case that the op is asleep when the bot goes offline, it'll stay that way until the op awakes
mircea_popescu: and i mean to say that if the bot always verifies after a fixed time there's... fixed time.
ben_vulpes: and must be an auto-decryptulator?
mircea_popescu: not necessarily, but how'd you know.
ben_vulpes: ah
BingoBoingo: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
candi_lustt: deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/V2jvD/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: lol
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes she should prolly move to control seq
ben_vulpes: aye
ben_vulpes: gonna need two while we're at it
mircea_popescu: lemme check where we're at
ben_vulpes: oh ffs now bots.contravex.com redirects to http://www.contravex.com/trilema-and-eulora-bots-directory/
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes !W as lobbes got !Q
ben_vulpes: may i have R as well?
mod6: i see that http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/ -> http://www.contravex.com/trilema-bots-directory/
mod6: not sure if that helps.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes for the same bot ?
ben_vulpes: mod6: yeah, i bitched about that a day or so ago; now i have stale dns
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: nono
mircea_popescu: then yes.
mod6: ben_vulpes: ah, aight.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ty
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski << add !W for candi_lustt and !R for mimisbrunnr
mircea_popescu: or was it the other way round
ben_vulpes: a nod's as good as a wink to a blind man
mircea_popescu: she's a sport ? ? ???
ben_vulpes: does she? does she?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674737 << this is the fundamental problem here. if we're not really using encryption then we're not really using encryption.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:11 asciilifeform: and if i can break 1, can break any and all.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between encryption and obfuscation.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674765 << well, without crypto and without gossip. but then again the latter not meaningfully possible without former anyway.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:28 asciilifeform: irc is exactly 'gossipd without crypto'.
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674809 << it does work, but at glacial speeds unfit for messaging. eg, !!v won't spill out of minutes-long windows.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:50 asciilifeform: arbitrary 'don't report the answer for T units of time' doesn't work, because you have no hard assurance of no spill.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674829 << your correct answer there was to say you use FG as a clock. which'd have totally sunk him, "my time comes in MB entropy chunks, ha-HA!"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:55 sina: fine, what if we assume two independent computers
BingoBoingo: AHA scintillatored FG clock
BingoBoingo: As opposed to sintered FG cock
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: done.
mircea_popescu: ty
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: shoot me a list of all the commands for your bots when you have a min.
mircea_popescu: prolly in a few days thay
pete_dushenski: all good
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674872 << sorry I used the wrong term there, I meant the operator. what I ended up with re that query is approximately what you've got there, except it's a two step process. 1. gossipc --add-peer --name sina --host <host> --port <port> which furnishes you a pubkey you can exchange with that peer (and they vice versa with you) and a seperate command to set the peer key☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674379 << introductions aren't intended to be handled by gossipd. the correct way to do this is for me to say "add 8A56264EAD0BC4BD9CD7AC0086B488AB sina" which is a legitimate pubkey of your gossipd, AND for you to go whatever re mine. then they can talk, change keys etc. not before./
mircea_popescu: alright then
pete_dushenski: also, yes, stale page ben_vulpes. url back to orig.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: it'll grow over time, i'll letcha know
pete_dushenski: as they do. but if you could summarise what you have to date i can tableise them and post.
ben_vulpes: mhm
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2447.5, vol: 22759.91542862 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2460.999, vol: 9149.36296 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2428.1, vol: 37045.18114702 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2717.274662, vol: 13794.94400000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2436.86, vol: 10020.0253678 | Volume-weighted last average: 2480.05106835
BingoBoingo: Hmmm markets seemed to prefer mp as a jaguar spirit
pete_dushenski: the love of great inca is a nasty habit to kick
pete_dushenski: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-06/24/c_136391168.htm << autonomous lulz. perhaps of interest to ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: har har har
ben_vulpes: wire autocannon into carbot
pete_dushenski: "Volvo Australia's technical manager David Pickett told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) on Saturday that his company has been trying to solve the issue for 18 months. He said the way a kangaroo moves completely bamboozles the system -- a problem they haven't had with other animals around the world."
pete_dushenski: inb4 "you call that an autocannon, THIS is an autocannon" and roos shoot back
mircea_popescu: spiders
ben_vulpes: tank girl!
BingoBoingo: So the solution is invasivitize roo's to the rest of the world to stop GoogAppAzon
ben_vulpes: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: !W (mpfhf:mpfhf #*10101010101010101010101010101010101010 8)
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: #*10111011
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: log: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/v1lEX/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: candi_lustt wanna sex ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes can it be pushed into single line by appending the log bit ?
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: "candi_lustt evals everything after !W in an SBCL environment with full access to the underlying host."
mircea_popescu: "do not break it."
ben_vulpes: needs saying?!
mircea_popescu: possibly. who knows, manuals.
ben_vulpes: look either you return the hooker in working order or kill her and hide the body and make yourself scarce.
mircea_popescu: word.
mircea_popescu: !W (ret "there is an atmosphere of toxic masculinity brewing in this channel!")
candi_lustt: mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NFMtc/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: aok then
ben_vulpes: !W 5
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: 5
BingoBoingo: !W cat niggers.txt
candi_lustt: BingoBoingo: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FshDZ/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: candi_lustt: das racis
ben_vulpes: omg is lisp repl not fucking bash shell!!
ben_vulpes cranks one-armed bandit again
ben_vulpes: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: !W (mpfhf:mpfhf #*10101010101010101010101010101010101010 8)
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: #*10111011 (more: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qCFXe/?raw=true)
ben_vulpes: of course i need a space before the closing paren
ben_vulpes: of course
ben_vulpes: !!up candi_lustt
deedbot: candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: !W (mpfhf:mpfhf #*10101010101010101010101010101010101010 8)
candi_lustt: ben_vulpes: #*10111011 (more: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZzSOG/?raw=true )
ben_vulpes: !W (values 1 2)
ben_vulpes: figures.
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=99
ben_vulpes: should be good now
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674880 << home orifice is another quarter or 4 months away yet; and the republic calls even in the dead of night☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674422 << consider that the damage you already did to modern man's most important joint is permanent. do not add.
sina: ok so I implemented some p2p encryption for the gossipd thingo
sina: but each peer can see the msg plaintext of the messages for now
sina: mircea_popescu: is it intention that there should be encryption from author to recipient as well?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675077 << there's no intention that there would be plaintext anything, wtf.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 09:15 sina: mircea_popescu: is it intention that there should be encryption from author to recipient as well?
mod6: mornin'
mircea_popescu: hey
mod6: :]
Framedragger: hehe https://github.com/infobyte/spoilerwall/blob/master/server-spoiler.py >> https://www.shodan.io/host/138.197.196.144
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674958 << lol, are those f-keys rubber?!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 05:12 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675006 << there are side-channels other than timing, and some -- readable from considerable distance☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 05:42 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674809 << it does work, but at glacial speeds unfit for messaging. eg, !!v won't spill out of minutes-long windows.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671565 )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 19:45 asciilifeform: hypothetically i could even do it ( supposing your rsatron is mains-powered ) by observing the imperceptible dimming of the room lights, from 5km away
asciilifeform: against these, 'time boxing' does 0.
asciilifeform: hypothetically -- even ping time might well have enough of a correlation to cpu load, that you can distinguish 'remanent of time cushion' from 'still rsa-ing' and eliminate the cushion.
asciilifeform: *remnant
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675008 << this is actually more likely to sink you than simply using a very large time cushion would.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 05:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674829 << your correct answer there was to say you use FG as a clock. which'd have totally sunk him, "my time comes in MB entropy chunks, ha-HA!"
asciilifeform: ( why -- i will leave as an exercise )
mircea_popescu: hater!
asciilifeform: lel
asciilifeform: lulzily, it was mircea_popescu who originally taught asciilifeform this fact
asciilifeform: i fughet when, might be in old l0gz
mircea_popescu: republican humour, man. it's a thing.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674946 >> 'B2B BABY ... Chcete se stát naším obchodním partnerem?'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 04:59 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1DD542B4BEF18F141C7B6941F77348DB7B711C2E59FD22B9BCF8389711074965 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1762...0867 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.24.157.30 (ssh-rsa key from 212.24.157.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (exchange.piccollo.cz. CZ)
asciilifeform: in other hilarities, http://www.rubos.com
asciilifeform: e.g. 'MH has been found on Intel motherboards around 2007 – 2008 in Russia. Intel Corporation has never announced that it had or has a hypervisor in BMC system management software. We did not get any comments from the corporation after we provided a copy of the paper.'
asciilifeform: d00d posted it to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674934 list and of course banhammered as 'off topic'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 04:45 mircea_popescu: and in other disbeliefs, i can't imagine anyone'd fucking read that plaintive undisciplined-female-whining mailing list ffs. what the everloving fuck.
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tell him to maybe consider qntraing it ?
asciilifeform: i dun post no moar
asciilifeform: banned as veteran spammer, after phuctor thread
asciilifeform: and, are the swine worth the pearls.
mircea_popescu: hm. BingoBoingo see if dood wants to write a qntra post ? http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you and all that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with that eval is that you don't know until after they aren't worth the pearls.
asciilifeform: tru!!
asciilifeform: which is why on occasion i strap into the bathyscaph and go
mircea_popescu: anyway, getting the "unhappened" to at least know there's a name for it can't hurty anything
mircea_popescu: well, not anything worth caring about at any rate
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674948 << which bot here does secret key ops ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 05:08 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674940 << excepting the special case of the bots
asciilifeform: ( enciphering a challenge is not a secretkeyop )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they respond to deedbot
asciilifeform: afaik deedbot is currently the only thing auto-signing ( inside its tx-issuing trb )
mircea_popescu: that's bitcoin style
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674920 << i took a 300+km trip by train, on east coast of usa, not long ago, and it was quite a sight - carcasses of dead factories, ex-trainstations belonging to ex-towns, and other 'dead past' that 'unhappened', plain for naked eye to see☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 04:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674605 << possibly one of the least visible pillars of tmsr for newcomers, because in world of socialist liquid shit everything is "mutable" ie liquid shit, and not accidentally. but because the only way socialism may masquerade as "sensible" is through rendering the past meaningless.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674902 << there is a handy post-su word, 'распил' ('sawing-apart') to describe the process☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674489 << sounds entirely like The Drepperization. which is very much the only american technology style left.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675118 << isn't deciphering a challenge an instance of a secret key op?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 14:58 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674948 << which bot here does secret key ops ?
asciilifeform: basic idea - a vermin gets control of, e.g., factory, and processes it as a raw-material base - carefully organizes the disassembly and stealing of what-can-be-stolen, systematically, piece by piece, replacing with 'cheap prothesis' when possible to keep the budget dripping in for as long as practical
asciilifeform: hence 'hey d00dz, why is mit email suddenly in 'cloud' ??!'
asciilifeform: and the evaporating ip blocks, etc.
mircea_popescu: hey, as socialism runs out of the agar, reverts to capitalism
mircea_popescu: gotta take whatever's left out of the hands of the redditards.
asciilifeform: and into the hands of other redditards, lol
mircea_popescu: nicaragua awaits them, by the way. very awoke place.\
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whoever steals from the stupid man is a cut above the stupid man, whatever his foibles.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: deciphering challenge happens on ~your~ end, not deedbot's
Framedragger: ah, that's what you meant, yeah ok
Framedragger: (true, of course)
Framedragger: yeah i guess that's a nice thing with deedbot, it doesn't need secret key for most of the stuff incl. challenges..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't clear to me that, e.g., the mit theft, involved any guile or initiative -- is simply the idiot inheritors disassembling their father's house
mircea_popescu: maybe. it doesn't matter : items must increase their market circulation. wife of socialist -> whore ; factory of socialist -> scrap iron, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: money doesn't need anyone to understand what it's doing.
asciilifeform: is raven on battlefield, eating eyes of a corpse, 'a cut above' the soldier?
mircea_popescu: it's alive, innit.
asciilifeform: for him the hour also comes.
mircea_popescu: but -- dead soldier had some proteins locked up. they're getting unlocked.
mircea_popescu: that's the whole thing : my keeping some women out of circulation is a reflection of my power.
asciilifeform: everything gets unlocked.
mircea_popescu: gotta first have that power.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eventually, sure.
mircea_popescu: but the whole point of life is that retention, temporary as it may be.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: we had the membrane thread iirc.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: in other recent lulzies, http://archive.is/B3QXF >> 'KMail’s ‘Send Later’ caused PGP encrypted private emails to be sent in plain-text'
asciilifeform: Run Moar UserFriendlies
asciilifeform: 'This vulnerability led KMail to not encrypt email messages scheduled to be sent with a delay, even when KMail gave every indication that the email contents would be encrypted using OpenPGP.
asciilifeform: '
mircea_popescu: lmao
mod6: 'sorry for your plaintext sekrets'
mircea_popescu: why the fuck does it even have access to key
asciilifeform: 'i dun wanna raise an' lower the reactor rods by hand!111 too much exercise' 'ugh the indicator told me they lowered and turns out not!11 help'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: idjits have this fondness for 'automate and transparentize pgp' etc
mircea_popescu: right, so as to maximally expose it to the earlier matters discussed
shinohai: Good morning tmsr
shinohai: TIL Russia is in Europe: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyber-attack-idUSKBN19I1TD
asciilifeform: shinohai: nono, see, the ukrs are Officially Nao Europe
asciilifeform: 'Path Towards Europe' (tm)(r) etc
shinohai: lolz
asciilifeform: meanwhile also in the fishwrap, http://archive.is/t9BoT >> 'Reputed New York gangster released from prison at age 100' << '... in and out of prison for much of his adult life ... most recently incarcerated, at the age of 93 in 2010, for a racketeering conspiracy involving the shakedown of New York strip clubs.'
shinohai: Read that the other day, *own son* ratted on him at one point. Omerta is ded.
mircea_popescu: you kidding ? everyone wanna talk! they're just happy if anyone's even giving the appearance of listening.
mircea_popescu: facebookerta.
asciilifeform: meanwhile lulz in ru world : their version of 'silkroad' , but the local custom is to use burial in public places, rather than parcels via the post. so various folx go and... dig 'for treasure'
mircea_popescu: not even bad idea
asciilifeform: iirc we discussed it here, as a theoretical.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
asciilifeform: and of course ancient idea, 'dead drop'
mircea_popescu: course ustards are too useless to dig anything
shinohai: This is also known thing in city where one gets texted a "drop point" that requires recipient to find geocache of sorts
asciilifeform: shinohai: is how spies worked, for century+
mircea_popescu: to this day, give or take.
asciilifeform: 'leave the film cassette betweeen 15th and 16th brick in such-such wall' etc
shinohai: But of course, was merely adopted by friendly neighborhood street-corner pharmaceutical representatives.
asciilifeform: the interesting bit re ru is that the dope parcels buried are so small that the operators make ~0 attempt to interfere with 'treasure hunters' who paid 0
asciilifeform: % of loss considered acceptable, 'priced in'
mircea_popescu: not what it is. dealer always gives out freebies to interested parties who can wait.
mircea_popescu: tits optional
asciilifeform: reportedly, the 'emplacers' regularly get picked up by police and sentenced to 20y, but this, naturally, does 0, new ones -- appear when needed
asciilifeform: also reportedly parks, benches, etc in various towns became a comical sight , where diggers rummage in the earth, like truffle pigs, looking for ???
mircea_popescu: would be funny if all that's left of white civilisation in a century or two is a collection of inexplicable nutty habits, such as ^
mircea_popescu: and no more.
mircea_popescu: pressing ctrl-c ctrl-v in succession, buttons printed on a wall. etc.
asciilifeform: arguably there already.
asciilifeform: re 'buried treasure', i'm somewhat surprised that this approach did not (afaik) catch on in usa
asciilifeform: where there is plenty of good landscape for such
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675181☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 16:01 mircea_popescu: course ustards are too useless to dig anything
asciilifeform: dunno that this is so -- i routinely see folx with 'minesweepers' in, e.g., parks, looking for ???
asciilifeform: nobody bothers'em either
mircea_popescu: consumers, dude. they're willing to say some magic incantations / "use the juice", but they ain't fucking willing to not use the post office.
mircea_popescu: ask one. to the fried up mind of the ustarded consumer, "that'd be tantamount to synthesizing the item myself"
mircea_popescu: you know, cuz he's seen a 3d printer once, so totally.
asciilifeform: again, plenty of 'honest cunning' among the us folx. but you won't read of it in the beobachter reddit, no.
asciilifeform: the latter will, yes, dwell on toy choppers etc
mircea_popescu: well, the druggies happen to be === the redditards, so.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason silk road failed to attract as much business as a lemonade stand.
asciilifeform: ( re '3d print pistol', i strongly suspect that whole thing is a psyop, to distract from cheap and effective cnc milling )
mircea_popescu: cnc milling takes work.
mircea_popescu: it's always the same thing with these shitstains. http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-16#509011☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-02-16 22:04 asciilifeform: son: 'whatdoyamean i gotta dip them'
asciilifeform: in fact '3d print' takes an astonishing amount of work. extremely finicky process, takes much 'babysit'
mircea_popescu: somehow that dun count.
asciilifeform: ~sold~, yes, as '0 work'
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's not patriarchy-racist or w/e
asciilifeform: the moar interesting, imho, aspect of the ru buriedtreasure thing is that ( again, thirdhandedly ) it is managed as a pure 'btc-in btc-out' operation
asciilifeform: i.e. operator sits far, far away, and pays lieutenant to obtain 500g of $substance and bury. then 'packager' gets coordinates, and excavates, then reburies in aliquots of 1g
asciilifeform: and takes photos, records coords of ea.
asciilifeform: then purchasers get coords, pick up.
asciilifeform: operator never sets foot within 3000km of all of this. just sends, receives coin.
asciilifeform: as for how the wotronics are managed -- i have nfi
asciilifeform: but considering that the apparent arrangement stands and falls wholly on wotronics -- i'd guess pretty well.
mircea_popescu: yes, bitcoin renders "the state" obsolete.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it does seem to call into question your 'there is ~0 market for milligrams' thing
mircea_popescu: it does ?
asciilifeform: and, in same piece, the 'meatless contraband is a reddit trendoid thing and will vanish soon' thing
asciilifeform: seems like there is massive set of dope aficionados that wants milligram AND wants no-face-meeting
mircea_popescu: i think you're supplementing by imagination all sorts of corners. there's a cost to bury.
asciilifeform: unless whole thing is disinfo.
asciilifeform: for all i know -- whole thing is a fabrication
mircea_popescu: and if i'm going to go dig up rabbit, im not digging up a spoonfull, im digging up enough to fill freezer.
asciilifeform: if the 'dead drop dope' thing is actually true as reported -- it is a 'britneyization', the dealer replaces 1 mircea_popescu with 10,001 milligramderps
mircea_popescu: reddit trendoid thing is "omg 3d printing GUNZ!!!" as well as "OMG USPS DRUGZZ!!!" etc
asciilifeform: for -- presumably -- +ev
mircea_popescu: where is such thing reported, other than your own reading.
asciilifeform: !~google нарко закладки
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Закладки наркотиков в подъезде: как бороться? – Вопрос: <https://question.d3.ru/zakladki-narkotikov-v-podezde-kak-borotsia-573875/>; Закладки в подъездах! - Pikabu: <http://pikabu.ru/story/zakladki_v_podezdakh_2710822>; [УЖАС] Наркоманы ищут закладку (наркотики) перед детьми в ...: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile irl, if you cut a brick of coke 3:1 and bury the resulting miligrams indisivuallty you will be digging a million ditches.
asciilifeform: beauty is -- not YOU will dig
asciilifeform: but 1,001 expendable idiots.
mircea_popescu: link to the "about 1mn ditches per brick" piece.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this part exists entirely in the fantasticly fertile imagination that also has them on boats.
mircea_popescu: possibly made of frozen sawdust.
asciilifeform: again , whole thing could be ~fabrication. but not mine, but of ru prosecutors. https://archive.is/8Gzus << example from 2016.
asciilifeform: but i see nothing inherently fantastic about the notion that 1,001 derps each of whom buys a ??? of unknown purity for 1,001% markup, could be +ev vs conventional 'brick' buyer.
mircea_popescu: the million ditches.,
mircea_popescu: even if such a dig takes less than one hour of derp's time and no transportation, the fact remains that 1mn hours of minimum wage are > 1mn $ even in russhitia ; wheas a brick of anything is < 100k.
asciilifeform: spammers work > for < pay..
mircea_popescu: there's better things to do with an army of obedient dorks ready to die than this.
mircea_popescu: farming them out to ourdemocracy "ngo"s comes to mind.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hm. BingoBoingo see if dood wants to write a qntra post ? http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you and all that. << Which dude where?
mircea_popescu: the one that got bannered
BingoBoingo tried detangling logthread to figure out who got banned from what
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: according to the $sources, they dun dig 'ditch', but very low-effort and laughably shallow holes, with, e.g., duct tape 'flag' sticking out; underneath park benches; etc
mircea_popescu: still gotta get there.
asciilifeform: 'there' turns out to be in public places, and both 'hiders' and 'seekers' routinely caught
asciilifeform: but somehow still appeals.
mircea_popescu: so more like a game of childhood than anything
asciilifeform: parks, lobby of apt house, similar
asciilifeform: when i first heard of the practice, i also assumed 'in the forest, like gru agents' etc. -- but turns out, no, in park benches, rubbish bins.
asciilifeform: whole thing imho interesting ~solely from the perspective of '1mn hours of labour, yes, but unpaid'
asciilifeform: like spam.
asciilifeform: the ample idle hours of homo redditicus ~will~ be harvested
asciilifeform: one way or another. 'uber', dope treasure, whichever.
asciilifeform: the other interesting aspect of '1,001 idjits vs 1 brick buyer' is that the former are somewhat accustomed to ~not finding anything~ in the indicated coords
asciilifeform: and so '1 brick' is bezzlated into equiv of 1*K bricks, where K is a pos. constant
asciilifeform: and separately from any dilutions of the customary kind (which are , presumably , also in play)
BingoBoingo: email sent
mircea_popescu: a nice. now lessee if anything happens huh.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> dunno that this is so -- i routinely see folx with 'minesweepers' in, e.g., parks, looking for ??? << loose change
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform drugs are already bezzled to all hell
BingoBoingo: jew-elry etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't picture the loose change thing being +ev
mircea_popescu: i thought you didn't think that mattered
asciilifeform: i suppose there are nuts, for whom ~nothing matters
mircea_popescu: here's the thing : the per-hour value rummaging throughb park from finding drugz ~= from finding loose change.
mircea_popescu: i don't even fucking take coins.
asciilifeform: incidentally it is in principle possible to make a ~cheap njd, that would fine moar valuable 'dropped item' in a day than a platoon of minesweepers
asciilifeform: (e.g. lost pnojes, etc)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: it does seem to call into question your 'there is ~0 market for milligrams' thing << milligrams isn't a market, its retail
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is quite astonishing that usg still bothers to mint coins
mircea_popescu: esp considering they doin't want them back
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dope aficionados presumably dig 'for truffle' to ~eat~, rather than sell
asciilifeform: when they run out of what to buy with
mircea_popescu: ie loose change.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it has a fine profile to reeducate idiots. "dig-find-love" or how did that "book"/"movement" go
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your bananistan still mints coins also ?!
mircea_popescu: o ya.
asciilifeform: nuts.
mircea_popescu: great coins here, too, total dubloons
mircea_popescu: of course the larger one is ~1 dollar
asciilifeform: are they often met with ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> meanwhile irl, if you cut a brick of coke 3:1 and bury the resulting miligrams indisivuallty you will be digging a million ditches. << 3000, who gets less than a gram of coke?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he was on about mgs
BingoBoingo: AH
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i can't picture the loose change thing being +ev << Well less ev if you get minesweeper at garage sale for 1/10th retail because initial purchaser realized -ev
mircea_popescu: typical sitting ? prolly a sugarbowl's worth
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'minesweeper' costs, what, 50bux new
asciilifeform: like hammer.
asciilifeform: not hightech.
mircea_popescu: nah, the better ones are hundreds
asciilifeform: still not megacapital.
mircea_popescu: well now that all depends.
BingoBoingo: AHA and ~$5 to $10 at garage sale after original purchaser learns math
asciilifeform: (i.e. less than typical ameritard's pnoje)
mircea_popescu: phone has functions!!!
mircea_popescu: anyway. cocaine is one of those items that don't produice leftovers. party will expand until all available consumed.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams << Typical cocaine use is gram after gram after gram after gram, I imagine mp or Tiger Woods level is sugar bowl or candy dish set out in advance
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have difficulty picturing the protagonists of $redditardmarket using 'at party'
mircea_popescu: ~its only utility, really.
asciilifeform: more plausibly they eat alone, while watching anime
ben_vulpes: going to parties, even
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They still use until consumed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's more a ketamine thing.
BingoBoingo: Principal effect of cocaine intoxication is a desire for more cocaine
asciilifeform: paging gabriel_laddel !!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo and nudity.
asciilifeform: is there a gabriel_laddel in ze house
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I thought that was more of a PCP thing
mircea_popescu: pcp goes mostly with the roids nuts afaik
asciilifeform: ~later tell btw gabriel_laddel you oughta have received the old comp by nao
asciilifeform: !~later tell btw gabriel_laddel you oughta have received the old comp by nao
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: !~later tell btw Sup
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: in other non-noose, nobody yet bought orlol's ship
asciilifeform: i wonder, how long these typically sit around and rust
asciilifeform: ( the photos suggest that there are possibly rustable parts in it )
BingoBoingo: Well, maybe it sucks?
asciilifeform: also not long ago i was bored on a train and found myself reading the tech docs to the diesel in that thing ( apparently a very common model.) surprisingly ( to asciilifeform ) the 'water going into the tailpipe when motor not running' is still considered an open engineering problem...
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: by the paper specs it seems to be a steal for the price. possibly the problem mircea_popescu mentioned ('lemons') is the tru reason.
asciilifeform: 'lemon car' breaks down on interstate; 'lemon' ship -- 'to davy jones's locker'
BingoBoingo: Well, general with vehicles of any sort... At the point the price becomes a "steal" yes, ownership costs far more than price tag
asciilifeform: at a certain price tag it'd be worth having just for lulz, and to ride within swimming range of land
asciilifeform: ... or possibly not, i have nfi what 'parking' costs for such a beast
asciilifeform: speaking of which, i saw, i shit thee not, a child-sized motorcycle
asciilifeform: entirely working thing, running on laptop (must be) battery, boy of ~8 was rocketing along on it..
asciilifeform: i had nfi this existed.
asciilifeform: not handcrafted thing, either, quite polished, likely - chinese
ben_vulpes: "dress your kids in plastic and train them on lipos"
ben_vulpes: fuckin idiots
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you've seen the gas powered 'minibikes' though, right?
asciilifeform: not in boy size
asciilifeform: and this thing did not at all resemble ordinary bicycle or 'moped' -- was miniature copy of 'kawasaki ninja' i think
ben_vulpes: at least kiddo was zooming, and had the opportunity to fall over
ben_vulpes: korean neighbor of mine was nervously pacing his kid in an electric 'lotus' knockoff last week
ben_vulpes: moving at no greater than 2 mph
ben_vulpes: oh god what's going to happen, he'll lose control and scramble out of the thing, falling all of six inches?
ben_vulpes: gimme a break
asciilifeform: lol training for 'whale cart' as pictured in BingoBoingo's material
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675084 << apparently it's the wrong keyboard :o i used to use advantage back in the day, but now it's https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-mac/☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 14:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674958 << lol, are those f-keys rubber?!
phf: i actually like advantage, but it encourages chording, which you hate. those rubber f-keys definitely don't help, but after a while that extra travel time to f-keys gets annoying anyway.
phf: !#s arensito
a111: 3 results for "arensito", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=arensito
TomServo: hey asciilifeform they even got foot pedals!
asciilifeform: who
asciilifeform: kinesis ? i had theirs
TomServo: Oh.
asciilifeform: imho sucked
asciilifeform: cheapo rubbish
phf: freestyle 2 lacks numpad, but has an extra two columns of keys on the right, sun style, which is unfortunately bound to a bunch of windows/mac functions (like cut/copy). i mostly figured out how to change what those keys send though..
asciilifeform: i'd like to know where i can get a comp pedal that i can REST FUCKING FOOT on
asciilifeform: rather than hover and give myself repetitivestress in joint that nobody even thought of doing it to previously
asciilifeform: what kind of imbecile designs for 'hovering'.
asciilifeform: phf: reminds me of sun's kbd
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and this thing did not at all resemble ordinary bicycle or 'moped' -- was miniature copy of 'kawasaki ninja' i think << Pit bike. Where I grew up if my parents were cooler,tis likely a thing I could have played with
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun think the battery existed then
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674678 << mine was written in cweb, i.e. the literate programming thing for c. i haven't finished it, but i got bogged on configuration management.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 00:54 asciilifeform: phf has a very similar gossipd in commonlisp, for instance
asciilifeform: aah
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Oh I thought we were talking awesome 2-strokes dirtbikes and pitbikes.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no, this was this tiny, ~silent thing, that still went at ~motorcycle speed
asciilifeform: no 'vroom', no busybodies coming from miles around to see 'why is 8yo kid on a motorbike'
BingoBoingo: Well there in cooler days were loud things that went at motorcycle speed. Battery thing is for losers
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for suburbia
phf: in fact i think i'm going to rip out some of the messier linked lists etc. management parts and simply wire in shiva. obviously wouldn't want to use it in the field, but mostly as a thing in itself
asciilifeform: phf: out of what didja make the rsa ?
phf: oh it's the same design as sina, slinging openpgp "packets"
asciilifeform: aah ok
phf: of only interest, it's got a state machine that knows how to parse (and validate as far as allocation and "how big is it?") individual packets, byte by byte and collect them until passing them on to gnupg
asciilifeform: ftr cweb is interesting
asciilifeform: phf: i posted one of these for 'p' recently
asciilifeform: it's the Right Thing.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/JPnpq/?raw=true << repost, for aficionados.
phf: oh i missed that
mod6: <+a111> Logged on 2017-06-27 14:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674958 << lol, are those f-keys rubber?! << apparently the older versions were indeed rubber. they've since gotten rid of that, and are now plastic.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 05:12 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)
mod6: they annoyme... but really all i use is the ESC key, which i've since replaced the windows key with a new normal esc key and remapped.
asciilifeform: mod6: i like 'f' keys.
phf: ascii friendly version of advantage would be "maltron"
asciilifeform: use'em for, e.g., flipping buffers in emacs, etc
phf: http://xahlee.info/kbd/i3/Maltron_keyboard-17420-s.jpg
asciilifeform: phf: i saw maltron for first and last time in 1980s-era b00k on 'fun of computing' or sumthing
mod6: asciilifeform: ahh
asciilifeform: phf: dunno whether they still made
asciilifeform: mod6: 'midnight commander' also likes fkeys
phf: yeah i wonder, i looked into it 10+ years ago, and punted at the $2000 or whatever price tag
asciilifeform: hence why i consider a box without fat, easy-to-reach 'f's, ~unusable
asciilifeform: 2000 << lol!!
asciilifeform: is custom machined to fit yer hands, of shitanium??
asciilifeform: ( if not -- why not?! for 2000 i can have own motherfucking kbd machined. out of steel. )
asciilifeform: and at some point i might even do it.
phf: http://www.maltron.com/store/p20/Maltron_L90_dual_hand_fully_ergonomic_%283D%29_keyboard_-_US_English.html apparently only $500
BingoBoingo: But will it be a very good keyboard?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the keys are the hard part, not the keyboard
asciilifeform: ( how to make buckling spring is not a secret )
phf: has builtin trackball even, in the right place
asciilifeform: looks like like in the b00k
asciilifeform: pretty neat
asciilifeform: i wonder what the switches are like
BingoBoingo: All sorts of botique business endavors are born thinking "Better materials!!!" are a panacea, then they build their product, and it turns out there are design considerations beyond material
asciilifeform: the site seems to be silent re switches.
phf: it's because their own design, "maltron switches". sometimes it's an option on those "mechanical keyboard" sites, so i wouldn't be surprised if the switches are good
asciilifeform: http://www.maltron.com/cherry-mx-switches.html << looks like they use cherries nao
phf: http://www.maltron.com/cherry-mx-switches.html
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform not fond of cherry switch
asciilifeform: they feel cheap, and they break.
asciilifeform: and when they do you geeeetttttt thiiiiis
asciilifeform: sadly they ( and taiwanese 'alps' clone ) are the ~only 'clickies' in new production afaik today.
asciilifeform: the '50 million cycles' thing is a bold lie.
mod6: <+phf> has builtin trackball even, in the right place << this would be handy. mine doesn't have this. having to take my hands off the board gets annoying.
asciilifeform: ( or possibly a half-truth -- perhaps it really does go 50m cycles before ~open circuit~ failure. but 'bounce' begins looong before )
phf: mod6: people have modded that advantage to have a trackball in the middle, with a variety of approaches. there's actually hollow space there
mod6: those maltron boards look nice. i didn't get one because it's nearly 2x as much as the kinesis.. and had no idea if i could even get used to the concave thing.
asciilifeform: 'Maltron keyboards are expensive by comparison and for many people represent a considerable investment. They are hand made from sheet materials which are formed and punched to make the shell or body of the keyboard. Cherry MX key switches are individually fitted by hand. The switch contacts are wired up into a scanning XY matrix by hand. In fact everything is done on an individual basis by hand. This does not result in a $5 product.
asciilifeform: But is does result in a product that is reliable not just to start with, but in ten or more years time.' << sounds great, but hey folx, why not make buckling springs like normal people!111
mod6: phf: ah no shit huh?
asciilifeform: i'd buy a several$k kbd if 0 plastic.
asciilifeform: (and honest f-keys.)
mod6: ah, ya, you wanted metal one right?
asciilifeform: stainless, ideally.
phf: i've at some point went through a mechanical keyboard site and ordered 6 different boards with all the available switches from different manufacturers. while they look "retro", e.g. http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/modern_selectric_keycaps_50529.jpg they all universally felt cheap with light frame and unpleasant lateral travel
asciilifeform: aha, i found 100% of post-1980s kbds to feel ~same, all like this.
phf: yeah
asciilifeform: currently i use one of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard#/media/File:Model_F_corrosion.jpg and it took eons to sand, deburr, paint, rf paint inside, ultrasonically clean the moving parts, reassembly takes ~day...
asciilifeform: ( you need carpenter's clamps )
asciilifeform: there's several kg of steel in'ere
asciilifeform: but keys -- still abs plastic.
phf: yeah, i got two, i'm yet to do anything with them. (and yes, mine are steel and correct version etc.)
asciilifeform: however it is worth noting that it accepts ibm 'm' keys, and so you can easily be rid of the martian terminal keys and replace with 'human'
asciilifeform: i like the key mechanisms -- unlike 'ibm m', no membrane, no rubber anythings, no rivets.
asciilifeform: spring buckles and conductive plastic 'foot' tips and moves just a little, changing the resonant freq of that row/column
phf: yeah, i think we had a conversation about putting piano forte into the firmware. if you type it fff it'll automatically uppercase and add random !!! etc.
asciilifeform: aha, theoretically quite possible.
asciilifeform: i'd still like to resurrect the su-era gold standard, the magnetic reed switch kbd.
asciilifeform: they were... eternal
phf: my setup is so "modern" that i can't really worry about permanence
asciilifeform: there of course is the -- quite valid -- mircea_popescu school of thought, 'furniture oughta be standard and expendable'
phf: i have to say though, from ergonomic perspective i've realized a while ago that none of this particularly matters. it's all significantly offset by fitness regime or lack of
asciilifeform: but given what % of time i spend in front of screen and touching kbd, the idea of using lusertronic rubbish has ~0 appeal
asciilifeform: phf: now this -- tru!
phf: https://starkcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/scan00211.jpg
asciilifeform: and moreover, the mircea_popescutronic answer to 'rsi', is that one that i end up using: 'type less, fool'
phf: yah
mircea_popescu: :p
asciilifeform: in continuation of 'the best car -- is to already be at the destination' line of thought, 'the best keyboard is to simply not need to hit many keys'
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone wanna paypal 30bux for me ?
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/EHFoJ << in somewhat vintage cargocultisms.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski might enjoy ^
asciilifeform: 'Among the store’s roughly five thousand volumes were eight different books called “Talmud,” several of which listed Rabbi Tokayer as the author and included pictures of him inside their front covers. One version included “A Personal Message from the Author,” in English, in which Tokayer expressed his belief that “the Korean people and the Jewish people have so much in common, and share so many similar values.” '
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: weird korean shit.
shinohai: !~later tell mod6 New makefiles test went smooth ... If you aren't head-banging over Ada I have question regarding Vim setup when you have time.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: So the first 3 results from the Google search "Roxanne Gay hamplanet" do not include the word hamplanet. Google Has either learned OR CENSORED RESULTS AGAIN!!!
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2449.03, vol: 19229.41901269 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2403.893, vol: 7323.36006 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2402.0, vol: 33686.53303544 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2547.323739, vol: 14274.82870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2436.806, vol: 9231.76895356 | Volume-weighted last average: 2441.57226253
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675463 << in somewhat vintage cargocultisms. >> "Korean women want to know the secret. They found the secret in this book." << lol "You, too, can do 'it'!"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 20:39 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/EHFoJ << in somewhat vintage cargocultisms.
lobbes: One of the oldest self-help b00ks, still kickin' to this day
shinohai: Adding this smacktard to my "List of ppl that need to die" http://archive.is/Lz9f9
mod6: hi shinohai, glad to hear that the testing went well.
mod6: what's your question re vim
lobbes: "Many folks expect to have some way of viewing and using emojis" heh
shinohai: If your sole contribution to computing is "adding fucking emojis" please die in a fire.
Framedragger: calling it: "serious linux desktop RCE discovered related to emojis" (memory mismanagement or related) (exact words in quote may differ)
Framedragger considers posting a bet re. this
mircea_popescu: it's indubitably there.