shinohai: That's all the altcoin world is
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/BPoTj
assbot: How many tumblrinas does it take to change a lightbulb? : Jokes ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfwEoq )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2854 @ 0.00051408 = 1.4672 BTC [-] {3}
phf: trinque: http://paste.lisp.org/display/152720
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ie3Xos )
mircea_popescu: https://github.com/pf << on top of everything else, phf shares alf's passion for a certain large cat!
assbot: pf (Philip Fominykh) · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfxS2P )
shinohai: pallas
phf: ha
phf: i mostly need to make sure my developers get the right idea
mircea_popescu: what idea is that ?
phf: your merge request is probably poor, and i will get mad
mircea_popescu: haha i c
ben_vulpes: hey phf how much of bitcoind have you implemented in common lisp yet?
shinohai: https://twitter.com/CyberExaminer/status/627271411510349824
shinohai: bout time
mircea_popescu: dude the dumb fuck actually stuck around ?
mircea_popescu: too fat to fly or what exactly.
phf: ben_vulpes: since last time i only added blkindex.dat reader
shinohai: I would have thought he would already have been waaaaaaaaaaay away
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.0005358 = 11.734 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: fagical tux
mircea_popescu: i guess they served him with a stay put order a year ago
ben_vulpes: p nice, phf
mircea_popescu: !up alpalp
shinohai: I just don't see this as a stellar idea: http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad/2015/07/31/driveway-raises-10-million-to-track-driving/?utm_campaign=ForbesTech&utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=social&utm_channel=Technology&linkId=15988103
assbot: This Startup Wants To Help Insurers Track Your Driving Habits Through Your Phone - Forbes ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ie6qPx )
shinohai: unless you are an insurer
phf: ben_vulpes: your discussion with trinque is apropos. naggum had a technique described in one of his emails, where he would load/unload clos objects' data transparently on demand. i want to experiment with that as far as block index
mircea_popescu is curious what comes of this.
alpalp: :mircea_popescu: ty
mircea_popescu: aha. what brings you here alpalp
alpalp: Just seen some good conversations
alpalp: friend of pierres
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-07-2015#1219982 << l0l, polish partizan flag !?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 31-07-2015 23:55:04; mircea_popescu: http://40.media.tumblr.com/9cd86be29c0052b758af6656cee65e28/tumblr_n33szisHYg1rus2mto6_1280.jpg << saving this for later, who knows, might be needed.
mircea_popescu: cool
alpalp: Think I saw something with loltwobitidiot today on twitter where someone destroyed him in here
ben_vulpes: phf: we're drinking and talking about how to persist data appropriately in cl proggies as we speak
ben_vulpes: s/in/from
alpalp: i have been drinking as well
mircea_popescu: alpalp i don't think b-a was ever too impressed with the guy.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have one with polish panzers from ww2 too! http://40.media.tumblr.com/8c5c0456efe34fd131867db912a74f5b/tumblr_n2c0scTFxD1rpyus3o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ie6T4d )
alpalp: Nope, he had some inside leak on gox and besides that been lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l! yes, them.
alpalp: Met him last year, def does not get it.
mircea_popescu: (contrary to what superficial students of history may surmise, i did mean the background ones)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was going over your proposed algo for tx cache eugenics. seems to me like it is suboptimal, in that it only rejects or accepts ~new~ tx based on net loss/gain. what it ~really~ ought to do is to keep the cache sorted by $/mass at all times, and ~evict the bottom loser~ every time the cache fills and a winner knocks on the door.
mircea_popescu: i thought this is what i had proposed.
mircea_popescu: course earlier today was like the 4th restatement, and i am not known for improved expression over time.
asciilifeform: mno,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=31-07-2015#1219530☝︎
assbot: Logged on 31-07-2015 17:27:00; mircea_popescu: ascii_field again : we have a pool of X bytes. tx are allowed in only if they pay more than average fore that x.
asciilifeform: ^ iirc this was in all 4 suggested versions
asciilifeform: 'accept or reject every incoming tx based on where it falls with respect to average $/mass'
asciilifeform: and now for part 2 of the algo,
mircea_popescu: im too lazy to dig through the logs. but yes, your thing's the winner.
asciilifeform: the obvious thing to do after this:
asciilifeform: let ~peers~ access the cream of tx (top of sorted cache)
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: kinda the whole point.
asciilifeform: not everyone, mind you
asciilifeform: but ~peers~
mircea_popescu: peers/payers
asciilifeform: as in, folks who paid for the vpn key.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: should also allow those peers that provide the fat.
asciilifeform: how's that work
mircea_popescu: (original design was to simply shutter all connecting peers that fail to provide good $$$ txn, in some sort of %)
asciilifeform: thing is, this'll result in a very random selection at present
asciilifeform: just like disconnecting bastard-spewers
mircea_popescu: random is hard to beat in practice.
mircea_popescu: moreover, random is what spwaned forth the incredible complexity of life.
asciilifeform: what i mean is that presently, a disconnect costs us.
mircea_popescu: let there be a selection pressure in this petri dish.
asciilifeform: in that there aren't that many folks on decent pipes connecting
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and not fucking all comers costs the female, too.
asciilifeform: and losing one statistically means that it is replaced by cattle on dsl
mircea_popescu: i think this is one of those situation where suboptimal wins. let us "lose", i'll take the loss.
asciilifeform: wanna suggest a numeric value for the penalty constant ?
asciilifeform: or hell, we can make it a knob.
mircea_popescu: config file.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: so i'm still at a loss as to how to subscribe those that supply the fat.
mircea_popescu: well what i was thinking was the converse (shuttering those who fail to provide acceptable txn, in sufficient proportion)
mircea_popescu: it's a start.
mircea_popescu: it leads to the following game theoretical situation : want your node to be well connected ? simply tell IT your decent fee paying txn.
mircea_popescu: sort of like those robot fight cage matches things.
asciilifeform: ^ this was sorta where i wanted to go
asciilifeform: however, the friction has to be sufficiently low
mircea_popescu: we're rich, we can afford not to give a shit atm.
mircea_popescu: later on, unstoppable.
mircea_popescu: because, as they say in omaha, "you're smart and i'm right, you'll figure it out"
asciilifeform: what i mean is, it has to be +ev for someone to even touch this.
asciilifeform: (someone other than us maniacs)
mircea_popescu: us maniacs are really all that matters, in the grander scheme of things.
asciilifeform: but we don't mine.
asciilifeform: (afaik...)
mircea_popescu: doesn't matter.
asciilifeform: except that, as i understand, this is a mechanism where miner is one of the moving parts
asciilifeform: what am i missing ?
mircea_popescu: suppose we're in the park. "throw the crumbs over there" "but the birds won't see them" "doesn't matter, we're the only things that matter here" "but we don't cluck"
mircea_popescu: indeed, we don't.
mircea_popescu: we also don't die if we miss the crumbs.
asciilifeform: that's kinda what i meant by +ev
mircea_popescu: for instance : i will be putting all my txn out through my own nodes, once this exists.
mircea_popescu: im currently about 1/3 the reason bitpay even stays in business, fwiw (not much).
asciilifeform: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: heck, last month i was a good chunk of coinbase too, because of that buysellads failed experiment.
mircea_popescu: and other such things.
asciilifeform: usg's #1 source of coin !
asciilifeform: mega-l0lzie
mircea_popescu is tolerant.
asciilifeform: birdz gotta eat.
asciilifeform: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/07/stupid-patent-month-do-it-computer << in other lulz
assbot: Stupid Patent of the Month: Trolls Go After Sex Toy Manufacturers | Electronic Frontier Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1VSbQJn )
mircea_popescu: in any case : reasonable bw, fee paying no bs txn is a very hard to beat prop, ev wise.
mircea_popescu: in fact it may actually be more productive for nearby miner to mine based off our nodes than the stupid shit the chinese do currenty
asciilifeform resigns to probably having to write this, too.
mircea_popescu: it's no emergency really, if its in by the next halving it's soon enough.
asciilifeform or rather, to testing the version he secretly wrote already
mircea_popescu: they should have gasenwagen'd you when they had the chance, eh ?
asciilifeform: plenty of time.
mircea_popescu: for they ion the know : i got a pile of specialty chocolates here, and i will win the fight!
hanbot wonders if asciilifeform has also secretly already written the match trick solution
mircea_popescu: ahahaha ouch.
asciilifeform: hanbot might find out the next time asciilifeform visits
hanbot: :D
cazalla: deedbot- http://qntra.net/0715.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ie9A5Y )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
mircea_popescu: 11,219 words woot, is that the record ?
cazalla: nope, i think that is like 15k maybe
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform bbl
cazalla: but considering ddos and my return to full time employment, not a bad month
scoopbot_revived: Qntra (S.QNTR) July 2015 Statement http://qntra.net/2015/08/qntra-s-qntr-july-2015-statement/
mircea_popescu: 12k in march too
BingoBoingo: Not bad for DDoS month
mircea_popescu: q1 levels.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2938 @ 0.00110999 = 3.2612 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: qntra's my preferred news source, point blank.
trinque: refreshing break from the endless horse-shit elsewhere
shinohai: ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00053791 = 12.3181 BTC [+]
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-07-2015#1219896 <<< i've seen so many of these floating around that i think they publish it to facebook on purpose☝︎
assbot: Logged on 31-07-2015 21:47:25; mircea_popescu: also, http://41.media.tumblr.com/8d01952c82fec3bbb7ef056d56a6e7b3/tumblr_mh656leSVx1r0llf1o1_500.png
BingoBoingo: Did we all get wedged off again?
danielpbarron: height=367850
BingoBoingo: I'm at 367850 but apparently there is a 367857 floating around somewhere?
danielpbarron: ;;blockheight
gribble: Error: "blockheight" is not a valid command.
danielpbarron: ;;lastblock
gribble: Error: "lastblock" is not a valid command.
danielpbarron: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 1 hour, 30 minutes, and 28 seconds
BingoBoingo: Showing a 367858 nao
BingoBoingo: https://btc.blockr.io/
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBS4Nq )
BingoBoingo: Just there, not here
BingoBoingo: Big, lots of fees wonder where the turd is https://btc.blockr.io/block/info/367851
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBSl35 )
cazalla: ;;later tell mark_zuckerberg hey, grats on the daughter, she'll come of age just in time! http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/the-zuckerbergs-announce-theyre-expecting-a-baby-after-a-personal-struggle/
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBSrrl )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00051121 = 9.5085 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Anyone with a sync'd foundation build know what 367851's problem is? ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform?
BingoBoingo: SPV miner turdations? https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fd2a9/f2pool_setting_a_new_record_most_transactions/
assbot: F2Pool setting a new record - Most transactions included in a Block : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1OU4HDF )
punkman: mircea_popescu: trinque you old enough to remember when neobee took over cypruss or notrly ? << I remember their derpy tv ads, unfortunately couldn't find them recently, wanted to show a friend
punkman: "The one rule they have adhered to throughout the Django Girls process is to "always go the extra mile" and the details of the workshops show this, they said. The room is decorated with flowers and balloons, rather than being a "boring classroom" and they do fun things like cupcake tasting or yoga during the day. "
punkman: yeah need more fun things to do instead of programming
punkman: because that's icky
mircea_popescu: right ?
mircea_popescu: you'll get more women in tech by making tech more like birthing class.
BingoBoingo backing up blockchain, going to see if doubling DB locks fixes anything
punkman: http://coach.djangogirls.org/
assbot: Introduction | Django Girls Coaching Manual ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBWiVn )
mircea_popescu: sad that they've gotten us girls so ashamed of cupcakes by now it gotta be a "tasting", it can't be just you know, EATING
mircea_popescu: like it were alcohol or something
mircea_popescu: dirty in the eyes of the hunchback protestant microgod.
punkman: "Make sure their experience is positive and that they have fun. Do not judge, be helpful and appreciate their (in-)abilities."
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo not clear yet.
trinque: punkman: how in the fuck do you think without judging?
punkman: trinque: don't judge
mircea_popescu: "The ability to answer all sorts of questions in a beginner-friendly way (even if that means the explanation isn’t technically precise)"
mircea_popescu: they're like purposefully useless.
trinque: punkman: mooo
trinque: once you can internalize a lie like "don't judge" you're broken
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo not clear yet. << Well just a few minutes until my pure blockchain finishes copying to safety so I can test something
trinque: how could you possibly exit that state?
mircea_popescu: beatings.
trinque: certainly not from within, that's for sure.
trinque: that there are "stuck" human states *necessitates* the beatings
BingoBoingo: K, moar locks doesn't seem to be fixing wedge
punkman: Q: Is there a Django Girls for men? A: There doesn't seem to be a need for Django Boys at the moment.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i doubt the scamfoundation/obsolete bitcoind will be resurectable on the mid term.
BingoBoingo: Seems likely. I'm just wondering what this crud is that wedged just now.
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/danielpbarron << apparewntly dpb has been doing his own version of b-a bash
assbot: Daniel P. Barron (@danielpbarron) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBY9JP )
cazalla: BingoBoingo, apparently ya were trollin' https://twitter.com/twobitidiot/status/627237656016121856
danielpbarron: heh yeah
trinque: god damn it, neighbor's drunk singing soul music
trinque: I'm a little buzzed, any soul music coming out of me?
trinque: damn right there's not
cazalla: ah shit, danielpbarron beat me to it
decimation: re: tx fees & relays: it would be interesting if there could be some kind of market for fees
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/davoutplantaire/status/626497759395356672 << i lulzd.
decimation: but I'm not sure how to do it without introducing more centralization
mircea_popescu: frenchie gets it quite exactly, we're at that creepy stalking phase atm
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so you actually got teh tools for sunday ?
decimation: it's more like it's 1906 in the aircraft business
BingoBoingo: Oh test node with megalocks is now at 367863
BingoBoingo: !up TheButterZone
decimation: I suppose the 'market' will just be what happens naturally as folks shop around for reliable nodes
mircea_popescu: decimation i would imagine it should be emergent.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: one of the funniest things i saw in egypt was the following thing :
mircea_popescu: i'd go into a shop, ask for something. shop owner would run me off to a different shop (i kid you not, leave his thing, wide open, whatever - nobody steals in arabworld apparently)
mircea_popescu: and the other guy would sell me whatever and then pass the original guy a bill or two.
trinque: chop off hands for a while and look what happens
mircea_popescu: because baksheesh is a way of life.
decimation: lol
mircea_popescu: i kid you not.
decimation: they are a culture of middlemen
decimation: I suppose cooperating in this way, the whole town is 'walmart'
mircea_popescu: and seeiong how their lyra was at the time ~a quarter, i expect they got the value of txn just about precisely enough to be usable in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: ie, to the 10-100 satoshi
punkman: so if Hearn trusts in the Gospel of Satoshi, why isn't he running 0.1 or 0.5.3? "No it wasn't. That is something you invented yourself much later. "Small devices" isn't even defined anywhere, so there can't have been any such understanding. The actual understanding was the opposite. Satoshi's words: ..."
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the jew, coptic and muslim groups crossed borders, too!
BingoBoingo: All interested parties here is my debug.log http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/debug.log
mircea_popescu: in fact - pretty much everything in the "received knowledge" of jews is hysterically counter-realistic to anyone who has you know, actually travelled.
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> danielpbarron so you actually got the tools for sunday ? << i got 9 axes and 9 hoes and i'm just now working on adzes (which require a slightly different method)
mircea_popescu: by which i mean... outside of iowa.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron prolly should publishe the whole thing monday. it's not a trivial math problem
mircea_popescu: well, asciilifeform would say it is, sure. but there's levels in triviality.
mircea_popescu: !up jnpn
danielpbarron: it sorta is trivial
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you got the actual function to select optimal usage/mixage of tools given a set ?
danielpbarron: yes
mircea_popescu: in lisp ?
danielpbarron: no
mircea_popescu: (probably ideal usage of lisp, check me out phf im doing lisp girls coach over here!)
danielpbarron: well i don't have a function; i have a formula
danielpbarron: and equation rather
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: actually this'd prollybe interesting to our very own gabriel_laddel too.
phf: i misread that as "couch", was not surprised
danielpbarron: it took me a day of thinking about it off and on to come up with
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: My favorite part of reading my debug.log is getting to see all the transactions that don't make it to the mempool
mircea_popescu: (the problem, ftr, is : you get a set of tools, with arbitrary durability. you can mix any set (which floor-averages), and decay any individual tool (fixed rate). make a collection of 9 with durabilities from 1 to 9)
mircea_popescu: in practice the mix operation is cheap and the decay operation expensive.
mircea_popescu: so, find optimal path and prove it's optimal.
danielpbarron: i plug in a few numbers into equation, solve for x, paste my macro x-many times, let it run while i do other stuff
mircea_popescu: for bonus points, offer preference criterion (would A or B be more beneficial if added to the set)
mircea_popescu: decimation tis a hack.
danielpbarron: i might not be doing it optimally
danielpbarron: but we need the explored resources anyway; it's not like i'm wasting time doing somethign i wouldn't have done otherwise
mircea_popescu: ah not at all
mircea_popescu: was just going after the math angle of it for a second
mircea_popescu: and in other news, kittens! http://36.media.tumblr.com/e519966614bc428712a590649c7b6c83/tumblr_mm6tm0a3LP1ryf5q7o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JC0cNW )
trinque: mircea_popescu: that show up on your doorstep?
mircea_popescu: wut ?
trinque: the kittne!
trinque: *kitten
punkman: https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce
assbot: Coding Like a Girl — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1JC0lRy )
mircea_popescu: tis teh internet!
mircea_popescu: "Heartbreakingly, at some age, we become convinced that doing anything like a girl means that you are doing it ineffectively, wimpily, and in a way that can’t be taken seriously at all."
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut
mircea_popescu: no dude, not heartbreakingly. the only human dumb enough to imagine girlhood's right is the girl in question.
mircea_popescu: girlhood's something you hopefully grow out of. failure to grow out of it is the definition of retardation.
mircea_popescu: ie, it takes you longer, perhaps infinitely long, to mature.
punkman: it's mostly about clothes
punkman: (the article)
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: anyway. why can't "coding like a girl" mean you write good documentation, for instance ?
mircea_popescu: that's what i would like it to mean. "this was coded by a girl" should be the indication that if i follow the fucking thing, i get the intended result. NOT some error message.
mircea_popescu: i've had enough of boy coding to last me five generations of myself.
decimation: wimmin in tech!
mircea_popescu: if i fuck her i get off, no exceptions ; if i follow her recipe i get a build - no exceptions. this is what it should be.
trinque: "She went back home that night really frustrated and flustered."
trinque: so... don't!
trinque: fight 'em
trinque: and stop waiting for someone to accept you
trinque: then from the other angle, maybe she looked great in that dress, and the neckbeards couldn't take the heat
trinque: so what?
trinque: thoughts of a navel-fixated narcissist
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26836 @ 0.00051121 = 13.7188 BTC [-]
punkman: "There is now a pull request to remove mention of "zero or low fees", "fast international payments", and "instant peer-to-peer transactions" from bitcoin.org. For those non-technical users who do not read source code, this may come across as the breaking of the social contract on what Bitcoin is ultimately intended to be."
trinque: breaking the social contract lol
decimation: lol
trinque: at least with religious magical thinking it's anchored to a book.
punkman: https://gist.github.com/JeremyRubin/4d17d28d5c681a93fa63 ahaha check out this comedian from MIT
assbot: bip-STUAFS.mediawiki · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1OUdQfr )
punkman: "Why don't you use short keys? They scale better"
trinque: punkman: hey he says they should be secure, so they should be
trinque: he's right
punkman: that gut wrenching feeling after you try 30 variations of an infrequently used password...
punkman: the realization this trove of data is forever lost, sinking in
trinque: brutal
punkman: but then you take a walk and it comes back to you
punkman: or not
trinque: punkman: if it makes you feel better, the guy that yelled at me re: trannies, and which wrote tenyks, lost 130 odd btc that way
decimation: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/07/31/ibm-200k-macs/ < interesting
assbot: IBM to Purchase Up to 200,000 Macs Annually, With 50-75% of Employees Ultimately Switching From Lenovo - Mac Rumors ... ( http://bit.ly/1OUgnX7 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25050 @ 0.00053489 = 13.399 BTC [+]
decimation: hopefully this will influence apple to turn osx into a more adult unix, but I wouldn't hold my breath
punkman: lol
BingoBoingo: I doubt IBM is running anything other than OS/370 on them
decimation: heh those days are long gone
BingoBoingo: At least they could run AIX
danielpbarron: http://danielpbarron.com/debug.log-367850.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gvSnyd )
danielpbarron: deedbot- http://danielpbarron.com/debug.log-367850.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gvSnyd )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You still stalled out?
danielpbarron: ya
danielpbarron: grep that file for 11DbException
danielpbarron: > Db::put: Cannot allocate memory
danielpbarron: > ProcessMessage(block, 999960 bytes) FAILED
danielpbarron: the gnomes figured out a magic amount of bytes that got accepted by some but not all, except it seems their beloved bc.i got caught in the fire
BingoBoingo: So it's more "non-deterministic behavior" and 40,000 probably just wasn't enough DB locks and objects to fix it
trinque strives to imagine what could actually need to lock 40k records in a db
danielpbarron: apparently this block set the record for number of transactions included
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: And the one two later apparently set another
trinque: same thing done here with locks is probably also trivially represented by a nullable foreign key
trinque: 40k locks boggles my mind
trinque: ben_vulpes: what's the thing even locking?
trinque: asciilifeform: ^^ ?
BingoBoingo: It's March 2013 all over again
punkman: danielpbarron: which node is that?
trinque: like... what's the cost of making the threads just *not bump into each other* vs using locks because "that's what you do with concurrent code" ?
mats: https://projectbullrun.org/dual-ec/documents/dual-ec-20150731.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1gvTNsw )
danielpbarron: punkman, that's a
mats: 'dual EC: a standardized backdoor' by djb, tanja lange, ruben niederhagen
trinque: really, can anyone explain why bitcoind must have 40k locks?
trinque: or apparently more
trinque: because that didn't cut it
BingoBoingo: trinque: It seemed like a safer number than the one that wedged before
trinque: I mean in that case infinite locks are best
trinque: heh
decimation: trinque: yeah this is standard for 'threaded' code
trinque: decimation: 40k ?!
decimation: folks can't be bothered to actually think about how to design things without collisions
trinque: decimation: right
trinque: exactly
trinque: but what collides in bitcoind, these are transaction records?
trinque: or what
trinque: in my mental model of this thing there are not 40k things needing to be locked anywhere
decimation: heh. there's several threads running simultaneously
trinque: processing incoming barf from other nodes, yes?
trinque: does it then write all messages to the db then start processing them?
decimation: I can't enumerate them all, but the network code, for instance, runs in a different thread than the db code for instace
trinque: I'm reading through the code, just trying to prime on whatever knowledge is handy
decimation: I'm not sure on that point, would need to read the code
punkman: you gotta read BDB code for those locks
punkman: "Blockchain.info is currently down for maintenance. For status updates please see Twitter. Apologies for any inconvenience. "
punkman: so they got wedged pretty bad?
danielpbarron: punkman, https://archive.is/kpf3y
assbot: Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1KGQjgF )
asciilifeform: ph0rk ?!
asciilifeform: 367850 here.
trinque: 367876 << deedbot
trinque: 2015-08-01_04:12:33.56149
trinque: utc
punkman: trinque: is that still on btcd?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ph0rk ?! << BDB exhaustion, upping maxlocks and DBobjects fixes
asciilifeform: i see no such thing here
trinque: punkman: it is
punkman: BingoBoingo: so you have an unwedged 0.5.3?
asciilifeform: no
asciilifeform: they're all firmly wedged
BingoBoingo: punkman: Unwedged 0.7-ish stator still isn't anywhere near this sync'd yet
asciilifeform: but i see nothing suggesting a db-related reason for it
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: record setting numbers of transactions in blocks
asciilifeform: sure
asciilifeform: but the conclusion does not follow
punkman: danielpbarron: > Db::put: Cannot allocate memory << it's a bdb problem
BingoBoingo: Follows same way as in March 2013
decimation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/07/31/in-historic-announcement-marine-corps-declares-controversial-f-35-ready-for-combat/
assbot: The Marines say the controversial F-35 fighter is now ready for combat. Now what? - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1JCd5HZ )
decimation: "They also pointed out that the aircraft is still under development and that full production is not scheduled until 2019, 17 years after the program’s inception. And they wondered whether the Pentagon really need 2,443 of the planes “in light of countervailing pressure to reduce force structure to conserve resources.”"
decimation: as usual usg claims success early and often
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: grepping ~9GB of log takes a while...
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I just upped the DB shit to 80000, backed up my blockchain, and recompiled
BingoBoingo: was very slow to eat 51, but it did
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is there a particular reason we didn't set that knob to maxint ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I think we just copied that number from some patch Luke-Jr pointed us to
asciilifeform: i mean, wtf is with this hardcoded limit retardation
asciilifeform: is it 1974 and we are at ibm, in fortran ?
asciilifeform: and lists can be 500 members long
BingoBoingo: Kinda we are
asciilifeform: i mean, yes, i haven't turned my death ray on db.cpp yet
asciilifeform: because - it worked
BingoBoingo: And then it didn't
BingoBoingo: !up Luke-Jr
asciilifeform will answer when the greps output
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: that's (partly) why we moved to LevelDB ;)
BingoBoingo: !down Luke-Jr
BingoBoingo: Imma go for a walk
danielpbarron: hahahahaha
trinque: asciilifeform | BingoBoingo: is there a particular reason we didn't set that knob to maxint ?
trinque: again, what is it doing locking that many records at once?!?!
trinque: at least in this conversation we *are* talking about databases; the above is insanely shit
trinque: 40k of what
trinque: point me at it and I'll go kill
trinque: I modeled this thing with ben_vulpes one day on a whiteboard; the blockchain is not an impossibly complex data structure
punkman: this probably comes from derpy indexes and structures used by bitcoind, not the blockchain
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo - yes
asciilifeform: Db::put: Cannot allocate memory
asciilifeform cleans chopping block
punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFW5gPlSJcE
assbot: Foodies Kill Their Food For The First Time - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYQ4hg )
asciilifeform: mod6, ben_vulpes, BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, et al:
asciilifeform: achtung, panzerz!!!
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000138.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] Bullet in the Forehead for the BDB Locks Idiocy ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYQuE4 )
asciilifeform: ^ apparently doesn't work
asciilifeform: do not use this patch!
punkman: max locks: " This value is used by DB_ENV->open to estimate how much space to allocate for various lock-table data structures"
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how exactly is it ~supposed~ to work ?
asciilifeform: ************************
asciilifeform: EXCEPTION: 22DbRunRecoveryException
asciilifeform: DbEnv::open: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
asciilifeform: ^ result
asciilifeform: haste - makes waste.
asciilifeform: what the max value that bdb will eat, remains unknown.
mircea_popescu: it's platform dependant
punkman: depends on available memory
mircea_popescu: it's a mess in any case.
cazalla: punkman, what a lost generation, can't even kill a chicken without getting out their phone to post it on fkn instagram
cazalla: and they all give the expected response of "i'm gonna think about my food more often in future" instead of hey, imma get some chickens and do this at home
asciilifeform: 80000 runs...
asciilifeform: i do not like this, at all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bdb ~will~ have to die
mircea_popescu: <danielpbarron> the gnomes figured out a magic amount of bytes that got accepted by some but not all, except it seems their beloved bc.i got caught in the fire << bc.i gets caught in every fire.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> is it 1974 and we are at ibm, in fortran ? << just about.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22587 @ 0.00052902 = 11.949 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187470☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 22:20:58; ascii_modem: picture if we had pogos deployed
mircea_popescu: conversely : if bitcoind can not run in bdb, bitcoind is very poorly written
asciilifeform: rather, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188263☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 15:33:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187470 << what i was saying there bears repeating. if we had a fleet of pogos deployed, they would ~all~ be paperweights now. and for so long as we use the cpp turd, there can be no guarantee of this kind of thing not happening in the future.
mircea_popescu: but that does not excuse the pos bdb is.
asciilifeform: this product is not suitable for orbiting rom
mircea_popescu: so it isn't.
asciilifeform: and i will not take responsibility for it deployed in such.
asciilifeform: 'dulap' and 'zoolag' now running 80000.
asciilifeform: 'incitatus' is a penIII with 512MB and will be shut down in the next week.
mircea_popescu: set_lk_max_locks 80000 you mean ?
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: and max_objects
asciilifeform: received block 000000000000000004ca
asciilifeform: REORGANIZE
asciilifeform: socket closed
mircea_popescu: and lockers ?
asciilifeform: ^ lulzies
asciilifeform: lockers ?
mircea_popescu: set_lk_max_lockers
mircea_popescu: ftr i've been running set_lk_max_locks 2737000 set_lk_max_objects 1119200 since sometime in 2012.
asciilifeform: there are no 'set_lk_max_lockers'
mircea_popescu: "there are no" where ?
asciilifeform: in the fucking source
asciilifeform: there are set_lk_max_locks
punkman: asciilifeform: you'll have to add it
asciilifeform: and set_lk_max_objects
asciilifeform: and set_lg_max.
mircea_popescu: in the source of who ?
mircea_popescu: it's a bdb thing.
mircea_popescu: DB_CONFIG is a bdb config not a bitcoind config.
punkman: bitcoind does some bdb config
asciilifeform looks
mircea_popescu: so it does yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it exists!
asciilifeform: what value didja use for it?
mircea_popescu: lol what, you thought i thought it didn't ?
mircea_popescu: same as objects, for no good reason.
asciilifeform: thought it might be unique to mircea_popescu's pdpcoin
mircea_popescu: im not that snowflakey.
mircea_popescu: (might be a good reason but i forget if i ever knew)
asciilifeform: what was your lg_max ?
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> ftr i've been running set_lk_max_locks 2737000 set_lk_max_objects 1119200 since sometime in 2012. < ?
asciilifeform: i don't see an lg_max here
mircea_popescu: i dun think i set it
mircea_popescu: anyway there's a reason for the magic numbers too, something to do with theoretical maximums of a 1mb block but i don't recall what THAT was either.
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 1 0
asciilifeform: aaaah
asciilifeform: good old usg-actually-owning-the-fucking-net
asciilifeform: ************************
asciilifeform: EXCEPTION: 11DbException
asciilifeform: Db::put: Cannot allocate memory
asciilifeform: bitcoin in ProcessMessage()
asciilifeform: ProcessMessage(block, 806004 bytes) FAILED
asciilifeform: received block 0000000000000000076d
asciilifeform: REORGANIZE
asciilifeform: ^ on 80000 node
mircea_popescu: anyway plenty of nodes stuck on 367885 it seems
punkman: asciilifeform: did you just get an alternate 367886?
asciilifeform: punkman: not accepted
punkman: err I meant 367851
punkman: why does it reorg?
mircea_popescu: trying connection lastseen=-371779.9hrs
mircea_popescu: connect() failed after select(): Connection refused
mircea_popescu: ftr.
asciilifeform: no shit
asciilifeform: i've been rebuilding it for the 3rd time now
asciilifeform: now running with mircea_popescu's constants
asciilifeform: as of 20 seconds ago.
mircea_popescu: i see you.
asciilifeform: ditto 'zoolag'
asciilifeform: i do not like this. any of it.
mircea_popescu: taci si suge.
mircea_popescu: dja know that joke ?
BingoBoingo: Oh, 80000 did not stay big enough very long
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: молчи и соси where i come from
mircea_popescu: little red riding hood and all ?
asciilifeform: received block 00000000000000000083
asciilifeform: REORGANIZE
asciilifeform: connection timeout
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: of course !
mircea_popescu: win.
asciilifeform: received block 00000000000000001139
asciilifeform: REORGANIZE
mircea_popescu: version 99992 lol
mircea_popescu: that's not one of ours is it ?
asciilifeform: not mine !
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> version 99992 lol << What's the rest of the version?
mircea_popescu: pretty decent peer, lol.
mircea_popescu: claims height 367886
BingoBoingo: Doesn't advertise version number?
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
asciilifeform: socket closed
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: socket closed
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
asciilifeform: socket closed
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: socket closed
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: socket closed
asciilifeform: disconnecting node
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: socket closed
asciilifeform: ^^^^ usg sinkholing ftw
asciilifeform: zoolag is at 367887
asciilifeform: synced
mircea_popescu: im pretty certain said magic numbers actually make it impossible for a block to be crafted legally and still crash your bdb, soi there's that.
mircea_popescu: can't run such on a tiny system tho, obv.
asciilifeform: i'm not seeing any increase in baseline footprint
mircea_popescu: iirc bdb just makes assumptions about what memory it may allocate and dies at the later time if they get contradicted
mircea_popescu: so you wouldn't see it now.
mircea_popescu: whjy use static buffers when one can be a danger to the system
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> version 99992 lol << Was me. Since I dumped that debug.log took it down to rebuild with new identity.
mircea_popescu: o it was ?
asciilifeform: another interesting discovery: when the 'socket closed' wedge state is in progress, 'getinfo' rpc wedges
asciilifeform: for potentially infinite time
mircea_popescu: it would
mircea_popescu: wut ?
asciilifeform: thing's full of'em
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: get stuck in one, and all threads perma-wedge
asciilifeform: like a 'python' proggy.
mircea_popescu: it'll be indeed a hard task to explain to one's grandkids to what end does bitcoind actyually use threading
BingoBoingo: Fuck it. Imma report a whole number version this time
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000139.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] (CORRECTED) Bullet in the Forehead for the BDB LocksIdiocy ... ( http://bit.ly/1JWNo0i )
asciilifeform: ^ achtung, panzers!
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/55ea021f780d943cafd61a05a2cc2412/tumblr_n2bykb7IEI1rpyus3o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JWNsx2 )
asciilifeform: zoolag is synced and operates normally
asciilifeform: 367888
asciilifeform: dulap is in nsa hell
asciilifeform: once we have hard peering (~never-disconnectable~, encrypted links between trunk nodes) this kind of thing will go away.
asciilifeform: The Supernode Lifestyle ! (TM) (R) (rpietilla)
mircea_popescu: lawls
asciilifeform: 'A gloomy ass one morning said / Unto his mate of board and bed: / "I am so dumb, you are so dumb, / Let us seek death together, come!" / As it turned out (and often will), / The two are blithely living still.' (c. morgenstern, engl. transl. of w. arndt)
BingoBoingo: lol bc.i fixed their shit and got constipated again
mircea_popescu: because they're running "the newest version" which "always works". in the sense of not.
BingoBoingo forgot that when you change versioning this whole thing wants rebuilt again
mircea_popescu: whereas proper bitcoin as released by actual foundation doth in fact always work.
BingoBoingo: I just have to wonder what idiocy is going to break everything the first weekend of September
BingoBoingo: This is 2 months in a row. Not quite a pattern, but almost one
mircea_popescu: i gotta confess watching the idjits squirm is kinda fun.
BingoBoingo: It really is. And who of all people would have suspected I'd be around and find a problem on a Friday night.
BingoBoingo: !up pete_dushenski
asciilifeform: 'The Air once threatened to expire. / "Oh help me, help, celestial Sire," / She cried with sadly clouded gaze; "I'm stupid, torpid, in a daze, / You always know a way, Papa, / Send me on cruises, to a spa, / sour milk is counseled for the skin... / If not -- I'll call the Devil in!" / The Lord, not to be shamed by Air, / Invented "sound massage" for her. / We've had since then the world that SCREAMS. / And Air just rolls in it
asciilifeform: and beams.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, im bringing the original node back on to help along.
pete_dushenski: heyyo. thx BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought it was perma-wedged
mircea_popescu: no, it was wedged to allow study of the wedge point.
pete_dushenski: so eatblock handled the magick fuzz block
BingoBoingo: electawedge
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: There's a second one a bit later
asciilifeform: 367890 (zoolag)
asciilifeform: anyone who is wedged - straight there.
BingoBoingo: Unwedged
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.000537 = 6.3366 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: dulap unwedged.
mircea_popescu: fun times.
BingoBoingo: Oh, this really upped my RAM usage
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i see no such
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: are you still using a random phoundation turd instead of therealbitcoin for your measurements ?
mircea_popescu: he was on 7.2 iirc
BingoBoingo: Random turd. Could be OpenBSD memory handling weird
mircea_popescu: lol now my node is getting teh silent intertubes treatment
mircea_popescu: we really should spring for better tubes, huh alf.
asciilifeform: 367892
asciilifeform: ^ i'm 2 blox ahead of 'blockchain.info'
asciilifeform: (zoolag)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha.
BingoBoingo: 367892 as well
mircea_popescu: i dunno where erryone else shops for intertubes that work
asciilifeform: at the very least, ought to have ciphered 24/7 circuits between the reptilia supernodez
BingoBoingo: At least I killed the orphanages earlier this week
BingoBoingo went from fairly stable 224-236 MB of ram usage to a very flat 986 MB the very flat makes me suspect OpenBSD weird
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: much depends on mempool
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i routinely see factor of 3-7 variations between my nodez
BingoBoingo: most of my debug.log is not allowing shit into mempool because insufficient fee
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i suspect obds SANE. ie, it forces the allocation.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo i suspect obds SANE. ie, it forces the allocation. << It does for most things.
mircea_popescu: if my suspect is true, this very neatly shows openbsd as a superior os.
mircea_popescu: in this particular case, allocation should be forced.
BingoBoingo: Well malloc() tends to aggressively try to keep shit from running into each other
mircea_popescu: malloc or any other mechanism has no way out of "gimme 900mb" "only 600 here" "but you promised"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: malloc is dumb as ox : either ptr to the 900, or null.
asciilifeform: nothing more to it
mircea_popescu: right you are.
mircea_popescu: "gimme 900mb" "null" "but you promised"
asciilifeform: 'wat,no i didn't'
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: but bdb has come to expect!
asciilifeform: accepted connection
asciilifeform: ^ l0lzies
BingoBoingo: up to 989.4 MB so well within the pre-patching wiggle room.
scoopbot_revived: New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/
BingoBoingo: With the rest of my stuff running atm I'm almose using 1/3 of my RAM for the first time since I've moved to OpenBSD
asciilifeform: dulap synced
BingoBoingo: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi/OpenBSD-5.7/man3/calloc.3?query=malloc&sec=3&manpath=OpenBSD-5.7
assbot: OpenBSD manual pages ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uek2C1 )
BingoBoingo: OBSD does the probably placebo ASLR thing for better or worse
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: your qntra piece contains mistake. 80000 sufficed for all of three minutes.
asciilifeform: (~1 block or so)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I made it further, but I also started 80000 sooner
BingoBoingo: And since reddit does not want Qntra's bounty of information https://voat.co/v/bitcoin/comments/365629
assbot: Checking your bits ... ( http://bit.ly/1UekNuL )
cazalla: same mods there as /r/bitcoin BingoBoingo?
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Just one in common that I know of.
BingoBoingo: Seems just as much of a shithole really
BingoBoingo: Oh and Qntra is now at 707 posts. It is now the biggest place a nuclear reactor housing can be expected to survive.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.0005265 = 7.6079 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2471 @ 0.0005265 = 1.301 BTC [-]
cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnS-05XoXs4
assbot: Smokémon - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1SR9gPw )
shinohai: http://i.moderniy.com/images/2015/07/26/sguF0i6.jpg <<< now I'm awake
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1IAApoq )
shinohai: kudos BingoBoingo for being prolific on qntra this week, I have had plenty to read.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2057 @ 0.0005265 = 1.083 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00051791 = 10.4877 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00052346 = 1.8321 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22182 @ 0.00051121 = 11.3397 BTC [-]
shinohai: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/crypto-activists-announce-vision-for-tor-exit-relay-in-every-library/ <<< yeah, let's encourage people to use a tor node located in a place that are generally funded by guv'ments.
assbot: Crypto activists announce vision for Tor exit relay in every library | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dguuow )
cazalla: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/07/29/executive-order-creating-national-strategic-computing-initiative
assbot: Executive Order -- Creating a National Strategic Computing Initiative | whitehouse.gov ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgvXel )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14643 @ 0.00052346 = 7.665 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: was this posted before? transistorless memory coming up supposedly; http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2015/07/28/intel-and-micron-produce-breakthrough-memory-technology
assbot: Intel and Micron Produce Breakthrough Memory Technology ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgyGVd )
jurov: http://paralleluniver.se would be spiffy if she ever does stuff for eulora
assbot: Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dgzx8z )
jurov: http://paralleluniver.se/post/109405235210 << already 3d model of mircea_popescu
assbot: Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgzyJq )
jurov: http://paralleluniver.se/post/87004177465 hehehe
assbot: Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgzERf )
shinohai: Evidently I need opengl before I can install Eulora
chetty: <jurov> http://paralleluniver.se/post/109405235210 << already 3d model of mircea_popescu// hahaha I love it
assbot: Stephanie Davidson ... ( http://bit.ly/1DgzyJq )
chetty: <shinohai> Evidently I need opengl before I can install Eulora// yup
shinohai: needs moar scowl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00051428 = 16.2512 BTC [-]
Adlai: shinohai: or an emacs/ncurses/framebuffer client
shinohai: I know dick about emacs :/
Adlai: someday even alf will be able to play eulora on his http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2014#927000☝︎
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 22:04:44; asciilifeform: drm glasses << http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752 (scroll down to story)
shinohai: !up Anonym0us
Anonym0us: tnx for voice :)
shinohai: np, register your GPG key with assbot and you can voice yourself
Anonym0us: someone has this nick :/
punkman: shinohai: it doesn't work like that
shinohai: well punkman i know he has to get into wot
PabloEscobar: how is the syntax for registering ?
punkman: !help
assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
PabloEscobar: !help
assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34177 @ 0.00052742 = 18.0256 BTC [+] {2}
Adlai: deedbot-: : http://dpaste.com/03VBY7N.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1MZuGZ4 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.00051221 = 12.4979 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: I am going to need a dedicated box if I intend to play Eulora. Any suggestions?
chetty: shinohai, join the #eulora chan, best ask folks with experience so far :)
shinohai: I'm so retarded. I shulda known there was a dedi chan
chetty: :P
Adlai: no, you're retarted for not reading the logs
shinohai: I usually ignore/skip things to do with eulora. Only began to take an interest recently and started to search logs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00052256 = 3.684 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: bwaha jurov that kicks ass
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33250 @ 0.00052256 = 17.3751 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla interesting. tho i don't get enough from that article to figure out how the fuck it'd work
mircea_popescu: "Following more than a decade of research and development, 3D XPoint technology was built from the ground up to address the need for non-volatile, high-performance, high-endurance and high-capacity storage and memory at an affordable cost."
mircea_popescu: i mean what the shit is this even.
mircea_popescu: i thought it was built from the clouds down, honestly.
mircea_popescu: thanks intel for setting my heresy straight.
kakobrekla: dunno but apparently they have working wafers
mircea_popescu: !up letstrythis
mircea_popescu: good for 'em... i wonder if this is the glass thing being discussed for the past year
mircea_popescu: only real clue being the "non volatile" part
kakobrekla: good part seems to be that you can manipulate a single bit unlike flash.
mircea_popescu: seems mindblowing, non volatile yet non rom.
mircea_popescu: anyway.
mircea_popescu: oh this is resistive memory.
mircea_popescu: prolly hafnium oxide, which should make the world situation ever more interesting.
mircea_popescu: this century will be the rare earths century.
mircea_popescu: (brazil and australia pretty much own the known hf supply atm). in any case, pretty fucking weird that goldbugs and silverheads still insist with their "precious" metals. they're useless. pm freaks of 2015 really should collect hf. cerium. lanthanum. europium. etc.
decimation: gold makes excellent electrical contacts
mircea_popescu: europium phosphates for instance are still to this day the only way to get a decent red.
decimation: silver is pointless as a monetary metal - too common with too many reserves
mircea_popescu: except electric contacts are not really where the cut lies atm. optic interactions (hence hafnium - ever seen an ingot with the microflim effect btw ?)
mircea_popescu: and dielectric properties.
mircea_popescu: those are the two main things.
mircea_popescu: prolly should say "dielectric secondary properties".
decimation: yes, this is true. you need a supply of gold for electronics certainly, but it need not be huge
mircea_popescu: and it need not be gold.
mircea_popescu: for instance - platinum's even better.
decimation: yeah you can use aluminium to bond wires
decimation: silver too
mircea_popescu: or doctored graphite
mircea_popescu: it's just not a bottleneck atm. sure, maybe it will become. who knew, in the 60s, that mountain pass thing in pasadena would be the most strategically important place in all the us.
decimation: apparently palladium coated copper is used too
decimation: gold is nice because it doesn't oxidize, just sits
mircea_popescu: sure, nice.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile every time china cuts quotas, the futures go into 10x explosions.
decimation: http://www.pcworld.com/article/214938/us_rare_earth_mine_resumes_active_mining.html
assbot: U.S. Rare Earth Mine Resumes Active Mining | PCWorld ... ( http://bit.ly/1fSPNRO )
mircea_popescu: and you simply can't beat a value proposition like "either have europium or not be able to display the color red - it's that simple".
mircea_popescu: mmmyeah.
decimation: http://www.molycorp.com/products
assbot: Molycorp | Our Products ... ( http://bit.ly/1fSQ1IJ )
mircea_popescu: iirc obama even whined at the wtc about china rare earth policy
mircea_popescu: they laughed at him.
mircea_popescu: somehow his international relations failures when being humiliated by putin in public are widely discussed
mircea_popescu: but his much more important failures when trying to preserve soime sort of future for that country get ignored throughout.
mircea_popescu: a well.
mircea_popescu: nobody yet wanted to be africa and failed to get its wish.
decimation: yarvin pointed out the amusing contrast between the us wanting to de-africanize africa and the chinese wanting to take its minerals
decimation: it seems the chinese approach is working out better for both parties
mircea_popescu: i guess alf's observation re kalash bullets, copper and izhevsk is so difficult to grok and utterly advanced people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that copper's not really the only superiority metal.
mircea_popescu: decimation soon to come to a strip mine/mall near you!
mircea_popescu: actually...
decimation: you can watch the california rare earth mine in operation! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id8hDUT5nHQ&list=UU96FUEp85Kk0PdKd9hp8jww
assbot: New California Rare Earth Facility Ramping Up Production - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1fSQH0M )
mircea_popescu: strip/mine/mall. what eat/pray/love.
decimation: it looks like it was built to golden toilet standards, it'll be interesting to see how profitable it is
mircea_popescu: it is actually not unreasonable to overspend on sustainability when building a mine.
decimation: the challenge with rare earths isn't finding them or digging them up, it's sorting them and processing them
decimation: well, the us has lots of experience with blotted landscapes due to mining
mircea_popescu: yes. the fact that they can't currently be extracted efficiently from electronics scrap speaks volumes.
mircea_popescu: otherwise ocean extraction would almost be practicable.
mircea_popescu: the trawlers that pretty much took all the fish, 1965-2015 can be refurbished to suck out the rare earths too, 2015-2065.
decimation: heh, or if we go 'full fission' U also
mircea_popescu: i doubt you'll ever be able to put up your gf's butt something that was inside a reactor core during your lifetime.
decimation: yeah, it's one of those 'we could safely use nuclear to supply electricty to everyone but we don't because reasons' situation
mircea_popescu: uhh
mircea_popescu: well in this case the reasons seem to be more like, "because it will kill you painfully."
decimation: heh no
decimation: who died because of fukashima?
mircea_popescu: you're not serious are yo u?
decimation: yes, who died?
decimation: fission is by far the safest method of electricity production
mircea_popescu: is this a rehash of the entire russian song and dance about how "nobody died at chernobyl" ?
mircea_popescu: at least a dozen people died the first week.
mircea_popescu: you know, just because japan's a colony and ukraine a colony of "the enemy" doesn
mircea_popescu: 't make usg's shit not stink somehow, magically.
punkman: no "official" deaths
decimation: okay
mircea_popescu: but i will note for jurov's benefit exactly what the differences are between his great friend to the east and his great friend to the west.
decimation: http://www.withouthotair.com/c24/page_168.shtml < figure 24.11 shows death rates of electricity generation technologies
assbot: Ch 24 Page 168: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBxeNw )
mircea_popescu: fission may well be the safest method of electricity production. that's not in discussion. a large part of WHY it is the safest involves not sticking bits of a reactor core inside you.
decimation: eh, as long it's just a little bit you'll be okay
mircea_popescu: (i have the math done on the difference between being exposed to a meltdown outside and being exposed to ingested material, if the obvious difference's aren't obvious i can dig it up)
mircea_popescu: but it boils down to the simple fact that if you're a mile away your share of the sphere surface is tiny, whereas if you're surrounding the item, your share's 100%. distance is a much better insulator than mass, because distance goes into the formula ^3. and consequently you're better off a mile away from a ton's worth of criticality than with a gram of the stuff in your colon.
decimation: sure, but meanwhile all waste products are captured rather than being dumped into the atmosphere
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1600^3 / 1000^2
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1600**3 / 1000**2
gribble: 4096
mircea_popescu: 4kb times better off, to be specific.
mircea_popescu: decimation the idea was that somehow you create the hafnium you use in your laptop through a fission process that happened during your lifetime.
mircea_popescu: that's what i was answering to.
decimation: ah yes that's a different matter
decimation: probably not gonna happen
mircea_popescu: right.
decimation: I was pointing out that if you are gonna such halfnium from seawater, might as well get some U too
mircea_popescu: that's all i was saying really. making your own rare metals may work, but it won't be this century.
mircea_popescu: oh oh.
mircea_popescu: then i misunderstood what you were proposing.
mircea_popescu: i thought you wanted it made the only way we know how to create elements atm.
decimation: because of this chart: http://www.withouthotair.com/c24/page_164.shtml
assbot: Ch 24 Page 164: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBynV6 )
decimation: he's point is that you could suply 420 kWh per day per person in the entire world if you mined oceanic uranium and used fast breeders to maximally extract energy from it
mircea_popescu: the x per day bla bla figure is spurious. obviously there's a shitton of energy there. the problem is we don't yet have the filters.
mircea_popescu: but yes, perhaps getting there.
decimation: it's the only technology that (mostly) exists that could possibly give a 'european' level of energy use to the entire world
mircea_popescu: this "from the clouds down" approach... who cares about "the entire world", srsly ?
decimation: heh well yeah. ultimately he's kinda a libertard
mircea_popescu: anyway. i always thought all the work in fine graphite fibers is really intended to do this, eventually.
decimation: yes, 'buckyball' strands were supposed to be the next big thing
mircea_popescu: but in all fairness this thing, while in principle promising, is mroe than a few tweaks away.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> yes, 'buckyball' strands were supposed to be the next big thing << Turns out lots are easy to make already, start a wood fire.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile buying a kilogram bar of non radioactive rare earth metal is perfectly feasible as-is.
decimation: yes, not such a bad idea
decimation: if you are going with industrial usefuless, palladium or pt are also good metals to hold
mircea_popescu: my concern was more cultural, so to speak. here are these dudes, maybe 100k of them, all heads counted. they're mostly over 50 white men, who have for 30 years been buying and hoping.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, during THAT EXACT INTERVAL, this set of 10-20 metals did EXACTLY what they had hoped their dead horse would do.
mircea_popescu: went up what, 10x a decade. easy.
mircea_popescu: yet somehow in their minds the idea doesn't form that... hello ? anyone home ?
mircea_popescu: it's pretty interesting a phenomenon.
decimation: yeah it's a good point. gold is double-edged because it's the thing everyone else is warehousing
decimation: which is good in the sense of 'could be traded' but bad in the sense of 'oh noes they are dumping onto the market'
asciilifeform: 'dulap' and 'zoolag' synced still.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220735 << mram is 1) available from my usual suppliers for several years now 2) rather boring on account of costing considerably more than sram+eeprom+supercap+fallbackcontroller☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 14:00:05; mircea_popescu: oh this is resistive memory.
decimation: asciilifeform: my poor node is only at 343k, seems to be syncing very slowly
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220737 << aaah no, that was the 20th. this one will be the ~lack of rare earths~ century.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 14:01:46; mircea_popescu: this century will be the rare earths century.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00053654 = 22.3201 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220733 << again, sop, for ages.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 13:54:11; mircea_popescu: seems mindblowing, non volatile yet non rom.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220742 << i don't expect to live to see an ingot of hafnium in person.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 14:11:44; mircea_popescu: except electric contacts are not really where the cut lies atm. optic interactions (hence hafnium - ever seen an ingot with the microflim effect btw ?)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220748 << mno. you need the ductility, for ic bonding wires☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 14:12:51; mircea_popescu: for instance - platinum's even better.
decimation: asciilifeform: you can buy here (Hf) http://www.mateck.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=25&Itemid=3
assbot: Hafnium ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBC0KS )
decimation: 486 eurobux for 100g in pieces
asciilifeform: not 100g of Hf
asciilifeform: (do the arithmetic)
asciilifeform: at any rate, i am not equipped to test its purity (certainly not non-destructively !)
decimation: they claim 99.9%
asciilifeform: this is why au has been a thing since ancient egypt - can test with almost bare hands, and refine with almost bare hands
decimation: ^
asciilifeform: this is what makes it 'bitcoin-like'
decimation: as long as you are willing to melt it
asciilifeform: go, test the hafnium.
asciilifeform: !s gallium
assbot: 27 results for 'gallium' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gallium
asciilifeform: ^ element that is even more testable for purity with bare hands than au
decimation: platium & palladium need 3k F furnace
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220820 << you know, you ~can~ separate out the stable isotopes.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 14:35:30; mircea_popescu: that's all i was saying really. making your own rare metals may work, but it won't be this century.
scoopbot_revived: Short Term Update: headed to $255 https://btctrading.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/short-term-update-headed-to-255/
asciilifeform: (see also the old reactor gold thread)
decimation: yeah, but probably not economically
asciilifeform: not gold, no
asciilifeform: but rare earths - quite possibly.
asciilifeform: the incentive for vendor to lie about this, is, obviously, there. but on other hand, if it functions as part of a semiconductor, it more or less ~has~ to be radiologically clean!
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
decimation: actually this is a side-effect of ramping up fission - it would increase the supply of random shit coming out of the reactor to study
asciilifeform: has to be ramped up soviet-style - with whiners told to go fuck a duck - rather than usg-style, where they somberly bury the spent rods in a coffin, with christian funeral
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: (then to have'em slowly leak into ground water somewhere)
decimation: yes, this is true, although I would prefer us safety record
decimation: asciilifeform: my understanding that the "U" dry storage casks are specially designed to be put into 'fast breeder' - for a time when usg comes to its sense
asciilifeform: u.s. safety record of the final collapse period will quite likely make the su one look rather good in comparison.
mircea_popescu: in fairness it hasn't been studied too much yet. who knows.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220842 << paging tlp! the au folks aren't trying to win, they are trying to 'feel winners'☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 14:47:17; mircea_popescu: yet somehow in their minds the idea doesn't form that... hello ? anyone home ?
mircea_popescu: but yes. the us is not only just as inclined to outright lie as the su was, it's also blessed with the gift of suck in the shape of a purely imbecile population.
asciilifeform: they imagine an aucalypse where their coinz are now the only valuable thing testable with your teeth, and thereby True Money (tm)
mircea_popescu: the "resistance through culture" intellectuals still did a lot to mitigate the sort of damage discussed here
asciilifeform: american reactors are still, for instance, built in such a way as to be helpless in the face of a total shortage of diesel
asciilifeform: (laugh, but they depend on external current, which - in the event of interruption of the steam turbine, for whatever reason - is supplied with a diesel set)
mircea_popescu: "designed by americans" is quickly becoming the english equivalent of "marfa romaneasca"
mircea_popescu: not merely shit, but shit that's been trampled by monkeys.
decimation: there are american nuclear fission designs that depend only on gravity to stop reactions
decimation: they just aren't allowed to be built
asciilifeform: the heart of the matter is that these things were built by folks who simply did not believe in collapse even as a theoretical possibility.
asciilifeform: it shows.
asciilifeform: decimation: aha. in uncle al's words, 'It Would Be Wrong!'
asciilifeform: in precisely the same way as a cpu where buffer overflows don't happen
asciilifeform: or a plastic for implants that is invisible to immune system (an uncle al product that was magicked out of existence by u.s. fda)
asciilifeform: It Would Be Wrong, because Simply Not Done
asciilifeform: (because would disenfranchise and correctly lower into pederasty whole armies of human turds)
decimation: https://nuclear.gepower.com/build-a-plant/products/nuclear-power-plants-overview/esbwr.html
assbot: ESBWR (Economic Simplified Boiling Water Reactor) | GE Hitachi Nuclear Energy ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBELM3 )
decimation: who knows about its actual record in the field
decimation: but you are right, it could have been built 30 years ago instead of what we have today
asciilifeform: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/01/asia/bitcoin-mt-gox-karpeles-arrested << lulzies
assbot: Mt.Gox CEO Mark Karpeles arrested in Japan - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBFoVV )
decimation: actually I bet a large number of existing plants could be converted over to this design
decimation: but that ain't gonna happen because it would cause $bil in paperwork to be generated
trinque: bahaha, fuck you Karpeles
trinque: gimme my 3.7 BTC you cunt
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220771 << the main 'superiority metal' is: people whose hands grow out of some place other than their arses! one can make shells - and even very passable bullets, for small arms, out of even nylon.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 14:20:38; mircea_popescu: i guess alf's observation re kalash bullets, copper and izhevsk is so difficult to grok and utterly advanced people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that copper's not really the only superiority metal.
asciilifeform: (they exist! can buy'em here.)
decimation: yes, the most lulzy thing about 'goldbug preppers' is their choice of a pile of metal vice actual people to help them in a time of need
asciilifeform: this, to be fair, is not usually a 'choice'
asciilifeform: get pile of metal - easy; get people - hard, for some - impossible
mircea_popescu: lol cnn quotes qntra or what
mircea_popescu: "they found it on teh intertnet"
asciilifeform: who was it who lifted a piece wholesale? 'forbes' ?
asciilifeform: whatever came of that
mircea_popescu: same thing that came out of the "hey, you're defrauding maryland u" email.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-04-2015#1085971☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 04:14:29; mircea_popescu: cazalla write to the author and to forbes editor, tell them they can either publish a fix or else i sue.
mircea_popescu: id est : nothing ~yet~.
asciilifeform: and as i said then, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1085974☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 04:15:38; asciilifeform: will be magicked away with magic rays.
mircea_popescu: nothing gets "magicked away with magic rays". they can shove their hands in ears all the way to the elbow, i'm getting all my pounds of flesh.
asciilifeform: well, the maryland folks landed a few $mil in grantola straight from usg treasury
asciilifeform: they are saints now, from the point of view of state of md.
mircea_popescu: up until they aren't.
asciilifeform: as of now, their shit not only doesn't stink, but is made of monocrystalline diamond as far as the dean is concerned
mircea_popescu: up until it... isn't.
mircea_popescu: very precarious, all this.
asciilifeform: all living things 'are until they aren't'
mircea_popescu: right.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000139.html << thanks all for helping with this lastnight
assbot: [BTC-dev] (CORRECTED) Bullet in the Forehead for the BDB LocksIdiocy ... ( http://bit.ly/1JWNo0i )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22533 @ 0.00053552 = 12.0669 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> u.s. safety record of the final collapse period will quite likely make the su one look rather good in comparison. << Calloway County plant in Missouri has made the news number of times this year for shutdowns related to declared non-radiological steam leaks.
BingoBoingo: On the other hand Bridgeton Missouri landfill which has perma underground fire spewing radio weird makes news
BingoBoingo: !up erg_
scoopbot_revived: Qntra (S.QNTR) July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-july-2015-statement/
jurov: u.s. safety record will differ from su only cuz media coverage
mircea_popescu: nah, media coverage is the point of most similarity.
mircea_popescu: both pravdas lying through the teeth turned up to 11.
mircea_popescu: the main point of difference is that the soviets at least had some still functional brainparts.
BingoBoingo: Also US really doesn't do much in the way of putting spent fuel in coffins, Tends to leave it swimming in pools, just outside of reactor housings
BingoBoingo: !up alpalp
jurov: afaik no one is really seriously depositing spent fuel deep into earth/oceans yet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00051501 = 12.2057 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: jurov: other than jp !
jurov: really? pediwiki says "The head of the Science Council of Japan’s expert panel has said Japan's seismic conditions makes it difficult to predict ground conditions over the necessary 100,000 years, so it will be impossible to convince the public of the safety of deep geological disposal."
asciilifeform: jurov: in the ocean, rather
asciilifeform: a good bit is already in.
asciilifeform: at any rate, this is an ~engineered~ political problem. breeder reactor can be used to eliminate long-lived waste.
asciilifeform: But It Would Be Wrong (TM)
asciilifeform: ;;later tell jurov was there ever a http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src but for the bleeding edge tree ?
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeOaUH )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: what is bleeding edge?
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000135.html
assbot: [BTC-dev] v0.5.4-TEST1 Pre-patched Test Bundle : Testers Needed! ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jt3hQe )
jurov: okay
shinohai: http://thehackernews.com/2015/07/bitdefender-hacked.html?m=1 <<< hue
assbot: AntiVirus Firm BitDefender Hacked; Turns Out Stored Passwords Are UnEncrypted ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeOrqu )
BingoBoingo: Bitcoin foundation is serious now, Has two branches
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wai wut
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: jurov's original lxr has the naked 0.5.3
BingoBoingo: The Bleeding branch and the stable one.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik there is no stable
BingoBoingo: Ah
jurov: no, i set it to 0/5/3/1 as default
asciilifeform: there is the original 0.5.3 which explodes a few hrs after boot..
jurov: at least i think so
BingoBoingo contemplates DNS and IRC snip on his 0.7 branch, wonders how much his 0.7 will look like 0.5 if the cutting continues
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: remind me again, what was in 0.7 that is missing in 0.5.3.x
asciilifeform: importprivkey ?
BingoBoingo: getpeerinfo
BingoBoingo: But now I'm just sticking with 0.7 for the learns
shinohai: it's no big deal bitcoind doesn't have importprivkey to me
asciilifeform: shinohai: it's actually a pretty big deal to me
BingoBoingo: Herpity Derp Derp http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/#comment-36507
assbot: New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBTiHF )
shinohai: asciilifeform: u don't just add keys manually ?
asciilifeform: shinohai: manually ?
asciilifeform: how, with hex editor ?
shinohai: Using pywallet
BingoBoingo: pywallet isn't manually
BingoBoingo: Got to use hex editor on memory pages of running bitcoind
shinohai: hex editor feels clunkier to me :/
BingoBoingo: Or you could tap the buttons on your computer's front panel
jurov: nah, point a gamma source toward ram
BingoBoingo: That works too
BingoBoingo: Gotta use a very fine source though, targets are very tiny
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17446 @ 0.0005363 = 9.3563 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-july-2015-statement/ << eulora makes money for s.mg, sorta, and players take home a chunk of loot.
assbot: MiniGame (S.MG), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBUpHi )
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/08/new-per-block-transaction-highs-wedge-some-nodes-patch-available/#comment-36511
assbot: New Per Block Transaction Highs Wedge Some Nodes: Patch Available | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBUueb )
BingoBoingo: thank you asciilifeform
asciilifeform: what's the latest on Luke-Jr anyway? who, precisely, does he muppet for
BingoBoingo: Seems to be since BFL typically still lower bidders
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the usual "i say words about words so please hire me" circus.
asciilifeform: wai wut, he wurks for a living ?!!
mircea_popescu: mostly doing pest control or i don't remember what nonsense.
mircea_popescu: something of the kind.
asciilifeform: pest control >> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ll2H1ZJE4vs/TvTXLY8xtkI/AAAAAAAAWVc/GAD54RgYia8/s1600/mainnaked.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeSdQM )
asciilifeform invariably thinks of ^, 'naked lunch'
mircea_popescu: !seen pierre_rochard
mircea_popescu: ;;seen pierre_rochard
gribble: pierre_rochard was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Pierre_Rochard> http://www.reddit.com/r/fatpeoplehate2/ < that was fast
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pierre_rochard I'm particularly curious to hear what you make of http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-july-2015-statement/#selection-379.202-379.283
assbot: MiniGame (S.MG), July 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeSpzm )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: btw, anyone feel like standing up a 'block explorer' gizmo based on therealbitcoin ?
asciilifeform: (or will this have to wait for my cloning and one of the clones to do it)
mircea_popescu: this could actually be a reasonably decent companion project. make a static html exporter companion for bitcoind
asciilifeform: aha
shinohai: asciilifeform: like an insight explorer?
mircea_popescu: then everyone running a node can run that too, if they run a webserver.
asciilifeform: not entirely related,
mircea_popescu: keep the css off, results in minimal pages.
asciilifeform: this is when i point out that someone has been playing with phuctor
mircea_popescu: if you can store 100gb of chain you can store 100mb of static html.
shinohai: I haz room
asciilifeform: the current gcd algo in use has a pretty obvious shortcoming: if there is a phuctored key, such that it is the only key with a given known factor,
asciilifeform: and dr. evil doesn't like it to be there,
asciilifeform: he can take said factor, multiply by a new prime, and poof
asciilifeform: it vanishes
mircea_popescu: huh ?
scoopbot_revived: MiniGame (S.MG), July 2015 Statement http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-july-2015-statement/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because prior to gcd, we divide the product by the modulus, if the former is integer-divisible by the latter
mircea_popescu: ok..
asciilifeform: this is to account for the modulus having been already submitted (if it has)
asciilifeform: but it can also have the effect of removing two factors from the product that were ~not~ part of a single modulus
asciilifeform: but rather, of two different ones.
asciilifeform: this is why the counter now shows 104
mircea_popescu: well this isn't very smart then, is it.
asciilifeform: whereas at one point it showed 106.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the pill against this is for phuctoring to register as ~an event~
mircea_popescu: so it is.
asciilifeform: creating a permanent record.
mircea_popescu: would help rss too
asciilifeform: this is easily 10x the code
asciilifeform: and requires rechurning the entire db
asciilifeform: hence i have not had anything like the time to carry it out.
mircea_popescu: of course
asciilifeform: it is, however, in the pipe.
mircea_popescu: the shenanigans would come back out once a 2nd item is found
asciilifeform: the reason i mention it now,
asciilifeform: is that we ~have~ a permanent record.
asciilifeform: the #b-a log!!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.000537 = 3.2489 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: funny how that works.
asciilifeform: anyone wants to score an easy qntra, find us the 'lucky winner'
asciilifeform: who thought he could magick away a phuctored key
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/PWrdD
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1IBXoj6 )
asciilifeform: ^ today's
asciilifeform: aaaaand
asciilifeform: we have our winnerz
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB#F79436B629322C70C523BAA5BE0D3D4DDA011578F84122B8CA3ABD15C52A9567
assbot: Welcome | Phuctor ... ( http://bit.ly/1HeUHyt )
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542#105DED03AF97CA6EDB6C41B47B7947A3B987A055C2756723E9C5671609CADB38
asciilifeform falls down laughing
asciilifeform: srsly, 'full spectrum dominance' idiots, you thought you would pull this off?
mircea_popescu: eh get out ?
asciilifeform: did they think i don't have a record of the submitted tailored moduli ?
mircea_popescu: you left the tank empty deliberately didn't you.
mircea_popescu: ips ?
asciilifeform: what did you think, mircea_popescu.
mircea_popescu: i think your stay in b-a has benefited you immensely :)
asciilifeform feeds squealing gnomes in cages, washes chopping block
mircea_popescu: aww. im sure it was just a researcher doing researching.
asciilifeform: these are just the two i found from naked eye inspection !
trinque: asciilifeform: nothing coming out of those links for me atm
asciilifeform: trinque: ddos
trinque: asciilifeform: are you the one weird trick they don't want me to know?
asciilifeform: l0lwut
trinque: just banter
trinque: common spam line
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00053735 = 1.5583 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: !b 6
assbot: Last 6 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3SC42BZ.txt )
jurov: !t m f.mpif
assbot: Um, shouldn't you be with your own tribe or somethin'?
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021519 B (Total: 427.54 B). Delta: 0.05 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha nsa is down ?
asciilifeform: http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=12884901891+
assbot: 17 results for '12884901891' - #bitcoin-assets search
mircea_popescu: 64 bytes from archive.today ( icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=28.4 ms
mircea_popescu: seems fine
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is up. was doing some hefty db queries
mod6: Thanks all for working lastnight to get the db locks issue resolved! I've got a new bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST2 bundle created. Patch added was `asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected.patch'. Applies cleanly. All automated tests passed.
mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/test-builds/v0.5.4/amd64/bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST2.tar.gz && http://thebitcoin.foundation/test-builds/v0.5.4/amd64/bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST2.tar.gz.sig
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWHUHv )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWHUHz )
mod6: Sending out updated email to ML now.
asciilifeform: neato mod6
mod6: thanks again asciilifeform, much appreciated.
mircea_popescu: sweet mod6
asciilifeform: - - [29/Jul/2015:19:06:47 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-"
asciilifeform: - - [30/Jul/2015:02:24:46 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-"
asciilifeform: - - [30/Jul/2015:08:31:05 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-"
asciilifeform: - - [30/Jul/2015:14:21:36 +0300] "GET /redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? HTTP/1.1" 502 172 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-"
trinque: asciilifeform: I can regenerate that lcov output later today; I found it a nice way to read the source
asciilifeform: ^ does 'google bot' ~always~ try to submit formz !?!!
asciilifeform: or just this one.
trinque: balls, I was scrolled up
trinque: anyhow, same goes
trinque: http://deedbot.org/stator-lcov/ << I'm not clear on why it split the output between "ourlibs" and the build directories
assbot: LCOV - coverage.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWI5T7 )
asciilifeform: aaand
mod6: Note To Ubuntu 10.04 Testers: I've added a list of install depedantcies to this email to help any build of this go more smoothly. GnuPG should be installed by default so you can check the sigs.
asciilifeform: - - [30/Jul/2015:17:27:37 +0300] "GET /redo/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542? HTTP/1.1" 500 291 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-"
asciilifeform: - - [30/Jul/2015:23:24:28 +0300] "GET /redo/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542? HTTP/1.1" 302 351 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)" "-"
trinque: also, I've noticed the same, quite common for attacking bots to claim "googlebot"
asciilifeform: because ahahahaha, i wouldn't notice, right.
asciilifeform: because everyone is a muppet ?
trinque: you're just being indexed, citizen
asciilifeform: they're in genuine ip space of that firm, fwiw
mod6: Any other Linux OS Testers: Steps will be gathered soon and will be updating as that information becomes available.
asciilifeform: trinque: 'google' does not, as a matter of routine, push 'redo' button on every key
asciilifeform: (if it had, the thing would be more or less unusable)
trinque: asciilifeform: being entirely sarcastic
asciilifeform: l0l
trinque: I dunno that I've ever seen a POST from googlebot
trinque: I am actually going to grep some logs and see if I have
trinque: well those are GETs, so who knows
asciilifeform: and yes, i left 'redo' and reset-of-gcd-to-1 a thing for a reason
asciilifeform: because some folks think they are oh-so-clever.
jurov: https://www.thumbtack.com/engineering/googlebot-makes-post-requests-via-ajax/
assbot: Thumbtack Engineering ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWIh4S )
asciilifeform: jurov: we aint got no js.
trinque: having it do anything other than passively snarf data is kinda rude
punkman: I have received POSTs from Google in the past
jurov: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.sk/2008/04/crawling-through-html-forms.html
assbot: Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Crawling through HTML forms ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWIiG2 )
asciilifeform: these were 'researchers' doing their 'research' through the world's largest sp4mz0r proxy (available only to aryans, of course)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what makes you think that's a form posting ?
mircea_popescu: it's just a get request. and google is pretty aggressive following all conceivable urls.
asciilifeform: mno.
asciilifeform: or ALL KEYS WOULD GET REDONE
asciilifeform: <form action="/redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB">
asciilifeform: <div class=actions><input type=submit value="Retest Key"></div>
asciilifeform: </form>
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/06/france-demands-google-extend-right-to-be-forgotten-to-global-domains/ <> http://qntra.net/2015/07/france-seeks-to-impose-right-to-be-forgotten-globally/ ?
assbot: France Demands Google Extend "Right to be Forgotten" to Global Domains | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWItAU )
assbot: France Seeks to Impose "Right to be Forgotten" Globally | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfuULS )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, it clearly scraped the url from there
mircea_popescu: but it just tried to spider it
asciilifeform: why it and not every other ?
mircea_popescu: i just checked, by going to nosuchlabs.com/redo/0D9057DA7AEE12C725AA9408D47F4FFC3769BEF7891A0F9C0A9F38420C5C08AB? myself
mircea_popescu: the result is that it sets it up for rechecking, yes, but i still only made a get req
mircea_popescu: well this is like asking why did the goat piss its left leg and not the right
trinque: it could have some "back off" logic after a 500
kakobrekla: how about content=nofollow ?
mircea_popescu: is there an actual magic modulus submitted ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: still looking for such
mircea_popescu: yeah, if /redo/ has functionality it should be in robots.txt etc
mircea_popescu: trinque i never saw a post from legit (by ip allocation) googlrbot. seen plenty from rogue agents using same user string
ben_vulpes: imagine my extreme disappointment when i cracked my email this morning, found a "bullet" for the locks, and opened it to find a config change.
ben_vulpes: i imagined that he of many hands had actually excised the locks.
ben_vulpes: then i read the logs.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1220396☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 04:39:08; asciilifeform: i mean, yes, i haven't turned my death ray on db.cpp yet
mircea_popescu: lol excised the locks
ben_vulpes: myes, have read.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform excise sag from tits and white from beard while at it
asciilifeform: what point is beard except to show the white !
mircea_popescu: i gyess i don't understand how beards work
asciilifeform: (anyone recall 'chessmaster' cover ?)
mircea_popescu: aha
ben_vulpes: isn't processmessages the only thread that writes to the db?
asciilifeform: http://www.vintagecomputing.com/wp-content/images/chessmaster/chessmaster_2000_box_large.jpg << him
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LWJ0CW )
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Fixed http://qntra.net/2015/07/france-seeks-to-impose-right-to-be-forgotten-globally/
assbot: France Seeks to Impose "Right to be Forgotten" Globally – New Order | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1DfuULS )
BingoBoingo: Really need to start checking when news is just an update of shit that got qntra'd earlier
trinque: ben_vulpes: I had a bitch-fest about "why the fuck does anything on earth need 40k locks" and got crickets
trinque: something is obscenely wrong there
trinque: so it routinely tries to break the integrity of its own data to the tune of 10s of thousands
trinque: if bitcoind were intended to obscure the functioning of the bitcoin algorithm for as long as possible, it would've come out the same way
trinque: relatedly, my new hobby is reading wireshark logs of bitcoind's operation
asciilifeform: the new phuctor, like it or not, will have to consist of static html updated at intervals.
asciilifeform: the one we have now has been ddosed into more or less total uselessness
ben_vulpes: the fate of all useful things connected to the internet without mitigation
ben_vulpes: not getting ddosed? not useful.
davout: this ^
ben_vulpes: hi davout
trinque: anyone give a shit about discussing cranking a magic number to 11 without discussing how the fuck it's using that many locks?
asciilifeform: trinque: me.
trinque: I can spend the next couple weeks staring at all the db code, but if it's already been thought through by someone, I'm all ears
asciilifeform has been, very reluctantly, unravelling the bdb thing in his head today
ben_vulpes: trinque: "many eyes"
ben_vulpes: don't worry about wasted effort. the more people who have it in their head, the better off la serenissima is.
ben_vulpes: besides, you'll need to write a bitcoind of your own some day anyways.
davout: ohai ben_vulpes et al.
ben_vulpes: how's life, davout? haven't seen you much of late.
trinque: ben_vulpes: widespread use of indices to deal with the fact that berkdb... ain't a db?
davout: second kid arrived, private pilot license in progress 70% pretty much sums it up :-)
trinque: then parallel threads trying to dick with said indices?
trinque: aka lets invent a database while inventing bitcoind?
ben_vulpes: myeah. curse of the kv user.
trinque: that's what I'm seeing, just trying to measure my own sense of stink against others
ben_vulpes: similar to how all blublangs implement conditions poorly.
ben_vulpes: trinque: it's a crime that there are no transaction indices or block indices.
trinque: should jsut be a separate concern entirely
ben_vulpes: (see asciilifeform's comment re upper bound of dumpblock)
ben_vulpes: davout: sounds like a lot of work. congrats etc.
trinque: where does the abstract logic of bitcoin end and the implementation of a shitty db begin
trinque: have fun kid, who knows!
trinque: haha
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: block indices are computed! because they are a function of longest-chain
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit
ben_vulpes: $bizpartner took me up in a 2 seat glider the other weekend, after about .75 hrs of going in a circle to the right i asked to come down, was put on the stick and pedals instead.
davout: haha nice
ben_vulpes: shocking how quickly my equilibrium returned
davout: gliders are pretty high on my todo
ben_vulpes: it's like a surfboard for the sky!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: location of block on disk, though?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes proposes to move them on disk every reorg ?
ben_vulpes may be wrong, is undercaffinated, girl is stil making breakfast.
ben_vulpes: no no no
trinque: model all blocks
trinque: all paths
trinque: then have something pointing
trinque: like a version control system would do
asciilifeform: ^ what we have now
asciilifeform: every block sits down on disk sequentially, and the db index thing points to indices
ben_vulpes: + // this is O(n^2)...
ben_vulpes: + // possibly could be improved if we descend from best height if requested height is closer to it
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: technically the comment is wrong, the operation is O(N)
asciilifeform: getting ~all~ the blocks is O(n^2)
asciilifeform: i did point this out shortly after posting it.
ben_vulpes: this is above my pay grade in terms of data structures, but perhaps an opportunity to learn. is there not a data structure available for use that doesn't have to iterate through the whole index to grab the element of interest?
trinque: just point at the end of all paths
trinque: and append-only
trinque: I cannot fathom what's hard in here, and I'm plainly asking to be called a moron, and why
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: try to understand why there is the index to begin with
trinque: git *is* this data structure
asciilifeform: rather than 'take nth 1MB block from disk'
asciilifeform: it is because reorgs
asciilifeform: and also because varying sizes of block
ben_vulpes: myes, i follow.
asciilifeform: really this is quite similar to everyone's file system.
ben_vulpes: what i do not understand is why it is necessary to iterate through mapblockindex.
ben_vulpes: probably an uninteresting question.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: because gotta walk the chain to answer the question of 'who is nth block'
asciilifeform: on account of it being a tree (with reorgs) rather than a mere linked list
ben_vulpes: hm
asciilifeform: ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62515 @ 0.00051147 = 31.9745 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86416 @ 0.00052611 = 45.4643 BTC [+]
scoopbot_revived: Looking in the ASCII mirror. http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/01/looking-in-the-ascii-mirror/
shinohai: How long before asciilifeform invents phuctor for bitcoin
asciilifeform: shinohai: long ago done, by other people
shinohai: o rly
decimation: it's depressing to kick off bitcoind and watch it balloon in memory
Adlai: $proxies
Adlai: no empyex :(
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1526
assbot: Loper OS » The Phuctored and the Phucked ... ( http://bit.ly/1gyIzn7 )
Adlai wonders whether somebody misunderstood shinohai's question.
Adlai: although perhaps shinohai misunderstood ecdlp
shinohai: I think i did misunderstand.
asciilifeform: !s android rng
assbot: 4 results for 'android rng' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=android+rng
asciilifeform: buncha folks used broken ecdsa which reused k-values, lost their coinz
scoopbot_revived: The Phuctored and the Phucked http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1526
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @ 0.00053767 = 29.5181 BTC [+] {4}
shinohai: I remember that abt reused k values and the android snafu for blockchain.info
asciilifeform: aha. it.
punkman: asciilifeform: shinohai: long ago done, by other people << still being done every second of every day
asciilifeform: naturally!
asciilifeform: why on earth would they stop ?!
asciilifeform: did people ever stop looking for gold watches on beaches ?
asciilifeform: for 'benjies' dropped on the sidewalk ?
punkman: and the whole HD wallet thing provides extra targets as well
asciilifeform: HD ?
punkman: (hierarchical deterministic)
Adlai finds, while trying to type out the difference between this hunt (rsa factor collision) and that (reused/predictable k-values), that it's quite elusive
Adlai: 'it is mind that moves'
punkman: see also BIP0032
Adlai: ... how exactly?
Apocalyptic: punkman, care to explain your reasoning behind this claim ?
asciilifeform: and what is an 'HD' wallet ?
shinohai: wallets that look slick and get your coins lost
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, it's a way of deriving addresses deterministically from an original seed using a HMAC function afaik
shinohai: I dont really like SPV wallets either
punkman: Apocalyptic: I have mentioned it here several times
punkman: lemme see if I can dig up thje links
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: what is the point of this practice ?
Apocalyptic: punkman, I simply don't see the relationship between HMAC-derived addresses and the signature process, more specifically the k-value
asciilifeform: why not use a proper rng ?
punkman: asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki#Abstract
assbot: bips/bip-0032.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZOkPA )
punkman: also brainwallet with infinite change addresses
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, I avoids to have access to an rng at any further point
decimation: !
decimation: you want a key without an rng?
shinohai: Am i alone here in hating on darkwallet too?
asciilifeform: i never understood the purpose of these perverse gymnastics
Apocalyptic: punkman, maybe HD wallet doesn't mean the same thing for you
asciilifeform: rng is so hard to come by ?
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, proper rng ?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: if you're poor, you 1) don't need this 2) throw fucking dice
Apocalyptic: and if you're not poor, you buy a cardano I guess
decimation: maybe use that guy's ti-89 code for making key
Adlai: shinohai:you're not alone, fuck darkwallet
shinohai: use plain die
asciilifeform: not like there aren't rng available now
Adlai: it's already dead
Adlai: that's the problem
Adlai: dead, orphaned, yet somehow still losing idiot nickles
decimation: asciilifeform: part of the problem is, it's hard for folks to trust what's inside a black box without understanding what's inside
shinohai: thx Adlai too many people don't want bitcoin but an *app* for bitcoin
asciilifeform: and they understand prng ?
Adlai: punkman: fwiw i'm quite sure bip32 doesn't make your addresses less secure, provided you don't leak the key data
decimation: if you can't understand prng, how are they gonna understanding the elliptical key math, even if they supply their own dice numbers?
Adlai: it does mean that a leak compromises multiple addresses, but that's because they essentially have the same key
decimation: Adlai: so why bother? why not use just one key?
decimation: seems like it's a device to pull the wool in front of your own eyes
jurov: decimation: some people prefer to not have to maintain properly megabyte wallet.dat files
jurov: cold store the seed once and get as many addresses as desired
decimation: if you can cold store on seed, why not two? or N?
Apocalyptic: in other news from the factoring mines I managed to get the complete factorization of the shortest phuctored modulus so far: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/976AAB6D6B7F325843FF0E3653C219B9D6738C5F016F72973E311181614ECAF5
jurov: decimation: you know how wallet.dat works?
decimation: not really, I try to avoid using it
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: neato
jurov: that you *must* back it up often or else?
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: what was it
Apocalyptic: Factors found: 3^2, 10369813152342769819546655742594738096999186293, 111420520518095837785511104477004478326532328625274528915533121095387027488402286811845047880038390653384109
Apocalyptic: didn't investigate if they have a particular form in base 16 or 2
punkman: Apocalyptic: found it. https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/848
assbot: Cryptology ePrint Archive: Report 2014/848 ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZPLh3 )
Adlai: decimation: dunno, ask these guys... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058369☝︎
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 22:01:09; assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 20:22:56; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057738 << it is. people (especially people kinda too lazy to study things in depth) have all sorts of theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses etc. it's a fashion is what it is, one i don't aim to encourage, and i'm stuck because w/e, serving teh customer.
Adlai: decimation: you can "cold store" an infinite number of addresses in your head as a phrase,but only a finite number of distinct keys
Apocalyptic: punkman, can you be more specific and point me to a given page/chapter ?
Adlai is not advocating the use of "brainwallets" where you pick the phrase, but rather a phrase generated from randomness + wordlist
jurov: ^ sop
danielpbarron: sounds like the deterministic thing comes from the already brain damaged desire to never reuse an address
punkman: Apocalyptic: eh, read the paper
Apocalyptic: also it's a paper from Courtois, who afaik has wrote many innacuracies about bitcoin
Apocalyptic: "One small security incident in a remote
Apocalyptic: corner of the system and everything collapses, all private keys can be re-
Apocalyptic: covered and ALL bitcoins within the remit of the system can be stolen.
Apocalyptic: Privilege escalation attacks on HD Wallet solutions are not new. In this
Apocalyptic: paper we take it much further."
asciilifeform: re: rng:
Apocalyptic: (sorry for \n) punkman if this is their main point then it's moot wrt was I was asking
asciilifeform: 'The Die. A die complained: "I have not been / Quite comfortable in my skin. / Of my six planes, the sitting side, / And bore it but my single mark, / Must ever gaze, not far and wide, / But into earth's eternal dark." When earth beneath him heard the cube, / She very nearly blew a tube. / "You jackass," said she, "what a farce! / I'm dark when covered by your arse! / As soon as you will move the same, I'll shine as with a ge
asciilifeform: m-like flame." / The die, insulted past repair, / Chose not to bandy words with her.' (Morgenstern, transl. by Arndt)
Adlai: "can be stolen by people who have the auditor keys" - don't expose mpub, period. bip32 is not designed for auditing [live] wallets
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19809 @ 0.00051933 = 10.2874 BTC [-] {2}
Apocalyptic: that is: the hierarchy-deterministic way of computing addresses doesn't weaken at all the signature
asciilifeform: it weakens ~the whole shebang~
jurov: danielpbarron: well, people like mp (or me) who want to sleep ad libitum and thus decided to accept coins, inveitably end up requiring $maxint addresses
Apocalyptic: well sure it does
asciilifeform: because the number of bits that must be learned by the enemy to take all of your coin - is smaller.
asciilifeform: qed.
punkman: the point is idiots will lose their coins this way, dunno what else you want
Adlai: idiots losing coin is the root of all deflation
Adlai: although in the current market climate, theft may do the opposite
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, if something strikes you as odd among these factors please do tell
Adlai is a big fan of "magic" HD wallets, that send your funds into obscure chains... spendable, if you know where to look
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: as far as i can tell, the factors found thus far all fit the profile of factors-of-randomly-chosen-integer
asciilifeform: (we know that they are not randomly-chosen, at least in the case of the 'magic 32-bit copy' set. but otherwise, yes)
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: what did it take to obtain the factors ?
Apocalyptic: 7556 iterations of gmp-ecm from inria with a B1 bound of 43e6
decimation: I do feel sorry for jurov, being chained to bitcoind for key management
shinohai: I feel less and less guilty about ppl losing their bitcoin to alternative chains since coming here.
Apocalyptic: I did 4480 iterations at 11e6 prior to that which found nothing
asciilifeform: !rate Apocalyptic 2 Phuctorizations! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221347☝︎
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/55110c3ae330d93e
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 21:24:00; Apocalyptic: Factors found: 3^2, 10369813152342769819546655742594738096999186293, 111420520518095837785511104477004478326532328625274528915533121095387027488402286811845047880038390653384109
jurov: decimation why do you think?
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.Apocalyptic.2:9ac7a9923cd6cf276665477abbafe398736d65670519700c9f24c592027436c9
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for Apocalyptic with note: Phuctorizations! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221347
decimation: jurov: I mean I look forward to the day when wallet.dat can be axed and an off-net computer be used to manage keys
Apocalyptic: thank you
jurov: i just wanted to point out that creating new adresses on the fly isn't universally better than generating the from seed
asciilifeform: !rate trinque 1 therealbitcoin testing
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/3b5457ce487aacc5
jurov: process is everything
decimation: it is, from the point of view of "give enemy less informatin"
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.trinque.1:fec1f5b332f215f61d3f58699b2fc3f68a67b412f15a12da37b5f313c814e60a
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for trinque with note: therealbitcoin testing
jurov: decimation in this scenario eneby that gets wallet.dat has much more information than enemy that merely gets public key
jurov: devil is in the details
decimation: yeah, I understand
asciilifeform: !rate phf 1 ru lisper
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/d93044adb9512602
decimation: which is why wallet.dat needs to die
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.phf.1:f789621cb79be638a2adfee29f9bb44dae1706915df62dc29625c30071357459
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for phf with note: ru lisper
decimation: ideally one would store keys in off-net antifuse
jurov: decimation: also there must be a way to unlimited count of new addresses, which bip
jurov: bip32 fulfills nicely
jurov: as shown above, even mp had to succumb to that
asciilifeform: !rate shinohai 1 therealbitcoin testing
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/67f7b901dff3d59a
decimation: I get it, managing fucktons of key material is a serious pain
shinohai: O.o
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.shinohai.1:9af23be464f165bf419ebbc28be144141a36d6625711516de0a2f03a6ecb6039
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for shinohai with note: therealbitcoin testing
shinohai: Is there still interest in a lame block explorer if i pursue the project?
asciilifeform: well ~i~ thought it would be interesting
trinque: wouldn't be lame to do it as described
asciilifeform: no idea about other folks
Apocalyptic: !rate asciilifeform 2 Built phuctor, knows some maths
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/12de3e5e8f1470eb
Apocalyptic: !v assbot:Apocalyptic.rate.asciilifeform.2:c43e959793043b012992520acc6f924bc0b4e54fa57c5e33a891976d87a4bafe
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for asciilifeform with note: Built phuctor, knows some maths
jurov: maff power!
jurov: deedbot-: http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201507.txt.asc
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZSuae )
deedbot-: accepted: 1
jurov: deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150801/attachment_6ce4bd8d2b82fcc9cb8a76c06e8a4e2b38f11b21.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DZSAyt )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7119 @ 0.00052255 = 3.72 BTC [+]
deedbot-: accepted: 1
shinohai: Leaked img >>> http://i.imgur.com/1Uh8Nvq.jpg?1
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1VTSTpP )
asciilifeform: shinohai: xt is mike hearn
punkman: http://www.welivesecurity.com/2015/07/30/operation-potao-express/
assbot: Operation Potao Express: Analysis of a cyber-espionage toolkit ... ( http://bit.ly/1VTT7NF )
punkman: "We found out that the website truecryptrussia.ru has been serving modified versions of the encryption software that included a backdoor to selected targets."
asciilifeform: lulz
asciilifeform: Run Moar Winblowz !!
asciilifeform: and Run Moar Binariez You Didn't Build Yourself
decimation: asciilifeform: but for the average guy, it's pwn at factory or pwn by wildmen
asciilifeform: 'average guy' isn't worth the materials needed to tan his hide
kakobrekla: Build Yourself < i imagine most people here built broken openssl before.
decimation: yeah, recipe needs 'fit code in head' too
decimation: which is a tall order
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: didn't say it was an elixir of immortality. just a baseline for literacy
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: it is just oh so precious when folks who download fresh mystery meat in bin form every day of the week and give it full run of their machine, make noises about 'security'
decimation: asciilifeform: thinking about antifuse, a 'jungle' version could be made: make a pcb with 4096 shorts, scrape the desired bitpattern by hand. could be made into a 'pluggable module' and hand-verified
asciilifeform: decimation: and the diodes ?
asciilifeform: also 4096 of'em ?
decimation: not even diodes, just traces
asciilifeform: that's not a rom
asciilifeform: how do you address row/col without diodes ?
asciilifeform: pray tell
decimation: yeah you would need a multiplex chip
asciilifeform: you still need diodes !
asciilifeform: otherwise you get current flow through all the shorts in a row/col
asciilifeform: and meaningless output
asciilifeform: can't select.
decimation: well, I was thinking of 4096 lines in parallel
decimation: but that wouldn't be practical
asciilifeform: ahahaha l0l
asciilifeform: no.
decimation: as an edge connector
asciilifeform: edge connectors with reasonable pin counts are flaky enough as it is.
asciilifeform: (ever nudge your video card ?)
decimation: yeah, maybe a 'zif socket'
asciilifeform: ditto
decimation: but now it gets more expensive
decimation: plus ideally you would want several keys per card
asciilifeform: and outrageously fragile if exercised with any regularity
decimation: yeah, so you would need some logic to probe each channel
asciilifeform: some logic here, some logic there, sooner or later you have your existing computer plus some weird appendage
asciilifeform: instead of whatever it was you wanted.
decimation: yeah, it's depressing
kakobrekla: this chan? yes.
decimation: it would be nice to have a little 'secure terminal' which could store key material reliably
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10812 @ 0.00050698 = 5.4815 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: decimation: depending on what you want to do, 1980s computers are still available
punkman: http://www.iacr.org/archive/ches2006/26/26.pdf << maybe relevant to those corrupted keys phuctor found
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfEzwL )
asciilifeform: punkman: i can't find anything that will display this pdf
punkman: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:q5KIpA2wYPQJ:bcm.crypto.free.fr/pdf/BCCC06.pdf+&cd=21&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us here
assbot: Why One Should Also Secure RSA Public Key Elements ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfEKbp )
punkman: and referenced in that: http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/1767685/on-authenticated-computing-and-rsa-based-authentication
punkman: "the most often observed fault during RSA-computations exposed to glitch attacks is the erroneous modification of the moduli."
asciilifeform: if the 32-bit-mirror moduli are the product of any kind of electronic accident, i will shit toyotas.
asciilifeform: and not once, but 98 times.
asciilifeform: on top of this, i hope it is obvious to everyone that the problem of divining any bits of the private key from the public, mutilated or not, is equivalent to breaking rsa
asciilifeform: and yes, you can recover bits of key from faults, ~if said faults take place on a machine with knowledge of the private key~ !
asciilifeform: this, famously, is why you don't ever want to give public access to a mechanism which tries to decrypt messages supplied by public
asciilifeform: esp. in real time
punkman: " the attacker is not able to forge new valid signatures, but Seifert’s attack allows the attacker to pass — with a certain probability — the signature verification step, for a message of her choice, by corrupting the public modulus"
asciilifeform: no shit
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221493 <<< Does said toyota shit contain any ISIS insurgents?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 22:18:13; asciilifeform: if the 32-bit-mirror moduli are the product of any kind of electronic accident, i will shit toyotas.
asciilifeform: e.g., we can now sign messages using the key Apocalyptic supplied the complete factorization for
asciilifeform: shinohai: each will contain seven live, and healthy, osama bin ladens
asciilifeform: and one dick cheney to fellate'em
shinohai: w0rd
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25900 @ 0.00050402 = 13.0541 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00050402 = 18.5479 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is with people and "deleting"
mircea_popescu: somehow the average idiot got this idea that time comes with an undo button. when and how did this happen.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: anvin's, for instance, is missing
decimation: somebody already had my 'pcb anti-fuse' idea (and thought it out better) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.electronics.components/fuse-based$20printed$20circuit$20board/sci.electronics.components/BV7Q279up-Q/XzdY2RJgQgEJ
assbot: Google Groupes ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfHRQz )
asciilifeform: (the diddled key)
asciilifeform: from mit sks
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform interesting, sorta
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur << obligatory re: 'how did this happen'
assbot: The Digital Imprimatur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfHXHV )
asciilifeform: in short, www was the censor's wet dream
asciilifeform: can 'un-print'
mircea_popescu: i dun see it.
asciilifeform: because not stupid
asciilifeform: the stupid - see this and only this
decimation: mircea_popescu: back in the old days you had to print stuff on paper
mircea_popescu: "Over the last two years I have become deeply and increasingly pessimistic about the future of liberty and freedom of speech, particularly in regard to the Internet. This is a complete reversal of the almost unbounded optimism I felt during the 1994–1999 period when public access to the Internet burgeoned and innovative new forms of communication appeared in rapid succession. In that epoch I was firmly convinced that
mircea_popescu: universal access to the Internet would provide a countervailing force against the centralisation and concentration in government and the mass media which act to constrain freedom of expression and unrestricted access to information. Further, the Internet, properly used, could actually roll back government and corporate encroachment on individual freedom by allowing information to flow past the barriers erected by tota
mircea_popescu: litarian or authoritarian governments and around the gatekeepers of the mainstream media."
mircea_popescu: this will be said re bitcoin in what, acoupla years ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, my blown fuse was specifically re http://trilema.com/2014/ron-maimon-lubos-motl-and-other-internet-things-i-hear-of-today-for-the-very-first-time/#comment-114933
assbot: Ron Maimon, Luboš Motl and other Internet things I hear of today for the very first time on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MErftK )
asciilifeform: lulzy
mircea_popescu: but the idea you know ?
mircea_popescu: "you fucked up, delete it!!1 quick!!1"
asciilifeform: aha, the idea.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck.
mircea_popescu: to this day - i have no idea how to put this in proper words - to this day they have NUMEROUS CASES of fucktarded "doctors" who get supoenad for their records and show up with doctored records.
asciilifeform: these are folks who will throw away whole identities on a lark, not mere posts
mircea_popescu: what, please explain to me, what the fuck must be going on inside this supposedly educated person's mind.
mircea_popescu: how are they a doctor in the first place.
mircea_popescu: it's as unmedical as it gets.
decimation: mircea_popescu: you mean folks with 'fake degrees'
mircea_popescu: no.
decimation: or fake medical records
mircea_popescu: i mean folks with multiple degrees from fucking harvard.
asciilifeform: greenspun ?
mircea_popescu: decimation what happens is that some guy dies and the attening physician gets supoenad.
mircea_popescu: "please bring your records re so and so"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15888 @ 0.00050571 = 8.0347 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: by the point that supoena issues, OBVIOUSLY they already have copies.
mircea_popescu: because no fucking laywer to date has yet asked a question he didn't know the answer to
decimation: ah, and doctor didn't actually take notes, or have any notion of what was going on with particular patient?
mircea_popescu: because the job where you ask questions you don't know the answer to is in science not in humanities.
asciilifeform: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/08E8V2K.txt )
mircea_popescu: no, doctor took notes, didn't like the look of them, changed what they said.
decimation: ah I see.
mircea_popescu: mental age of about 6
decimation: to connect with my misunderstanding, why bother going to medical school?
asciilifeform: incidentally, the american style of schooling strongly selects for this
decimation: could do the same with fake degree too
mircea_popescu: some people actually wanna learn a trade for chryssakes.
asciilifeform: that's what 'go-getter type' has ~always meant in usa~. a fella willing to lie, defraud, with straight face
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no look. lie and defraud is one thing.
asciilifeform: the tighter a tournament market, in usa, the more this is selected for.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference, you know, between faeces flinger and bed shitter.
decimation: in the uk in particular, there is a strong tradition of 'surgeon is not doctor, but skilled craftsman'
mircea_popescu: this is bed shitting.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is, their scam skillz are honed for a certain kind of largely-ritualized competition. like the antlers of ruminants. for actual combat - not so much
mircea_popescu: quite ruminant.
decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_College_of_Surgeons_of_England " When the College of Surgeons received its royal charter, the Royal College of Physicians insisted that candidates must have a medical degree first.[citation needed] Therefore an aspiring surgeon had to study medicine first and received the title Doctor. Thereafter, having obtained the diploma of Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons he would revert ...
assbot: Royal College of Surgeons of England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1MErRQ6 )
decimation: ... to the title "Mr" as a snub to the RCP."
shinohai: I'd rather be known as a knight of La Serenissima.
shinohai: hue
mircea_popescu: "en or, lions rampant, people ruminant"
asciilifeform: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/13YB801.txt )
decimation: heh
asciilifeform: mega-l0l
decimation: ^ #b-a heraldry?
shinohai: http://www.immortalmuse.com/2010/09/27/tuesday-poem-jims-coat-of-arms-by-mark-twain/
assbot: "Jim's Coat of Arms" by Mark Twain | Immortal MuseImmortal Muse ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEs2Lg )
ben_vulpes: phf: your .dat reader works very well, thank you. consider submitting to list?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf %%
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221195 << too lazy to search for the mp quote saying "these schmucks are principally invovled in trying to defend their own imaginary position of power through a castle of bad code"☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 18:32:03; trinque: if bitcoind were intended to obscure the functioning of the bitcoin algorithm for as long as possible, it would've come out the same way
mircea_popescu: but your intuition is correct. everything the "core devs" have been doing since at the latest 2012 is this and nothing else.
mircea_popescu: which is why it's getting excised.
mircea_popescu: somehow the notion that it'll get excised never occured to them.
mircea_popescu: like you know, the notion that he's pouring money in the sand ne'er occurs to friendly ddos guy.
mircea_popescu: stragety is hard.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221203 << i don't think you understand what "locks" means in bdb parlance☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 18:47:08; trinque: anyone give a shit about discussing cranking a magic number to 11 without discussing how the fuck it's using that many locks?
mircea_popescu: see http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs276a/projects/docs/berkeleydb/ref/lock/intro.html specifically " (Performing multiple lock operations atomically is useful in performing Btree traversals". then realise this is jsut called recursively throughout a (large) tree for no reason whatsoever.
assbot: Berkeley DB Reference Guide: Berkeley DB and locking ... ( http://bit.ly/1N0SIDd )
mircea_popescu: it's a meaningless count.
mircea_popescu: obviously this should be fixed. but we're not there yet, and the fix would not consist of shaping gangrene anyway.
trinque: got it; I'll read that link
trinque: and the point prior is all too clear
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221256 << this is pure wank. all blocks are 1mb, and it's reliable as set in stone. the right move is to pad all blocks to 1mb and forget about it☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 18:59:24; asciilifeform: and also because varying sizes of block
mircea_popescu: that satoshi didn't originally is because he adapted design to perceived resources, and figured nobody would; run it if it took 2gb every 8 days.
mircea_popescu: in fact the blk0001 covers as you folks observed, the first ~3 years of bitcoin or some shit.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, that random accident at the beginning passed, the correct storage schema for bitcoin blockchain is fixed 1mb blocks.
mircea_popescu: i vaguely recall we even discussed this, in re a bitcoin fs.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221312 << check it out, the perpetuum entropible.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 21:15:24; Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, I avoids to have access to an rng at any further point
scoopbot_revived: What MP wants, MP gets. Also, prayers are answered. http://trilema.com/2015/what-mp-wants-mp-gets-also-prayers-are-answered/
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221341 << well done!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 21:23:09; Apocalyptic: in other news from the factoring mines I managed to get the complete factorization of the shortest phuctored modulus so far: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/976AAB6D6B7F325843FF0E3653C219B9D6738C5F016F72973E311181614ECAF5
mircea_popescu: sadly the log cuts up the numbers.
mircea_popescu: 3^2, 10369813152342769819546655742594738096999186293,
mircea_popescu: 1114205205180958377855111044770044783265323286252745
mircea_popescu: 2891553312109538702748840228681184504788003839065338
mircea_popescu: 4109
mircea_popescu: for the future.
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, only the display is cut, the source shows the full numbers
mircea_popescu: ah right you are.
mircea_popescu: was this a 1024 key ?
mircea_popescu: seem too few digits, to my untrained eye.
Apocalyptic: maybe even a 512 one
mircea_popescu: 163 would imply a 512 bit key except iirc no key under 768 was even allowed ?
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1220928 <<< forbes didn't lift an article but linked to another site which lifted a qntra story which was an exclusive☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 15:52:27; asciilifeform: who was it who lifted a piece wholesale? 'forbes' ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221373 << not necessary, one'd hope. bitbet has been running off the same set of addresses forever.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 21:28:52; jurov: danielpbarron: well, people like mp (or me) who want to sleep ad libitum and thus decided to accept coins, inveitably end up requiring $maxint addresses
cazalla: and i contacted them saying hey, perhaps you'd like to link to the original instead of a copy wrapped in adsense but he declined
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu just because large enough set.
mircea_popescu: i guess.
mircea_popescu: not a "solved problem" in my estimation, yet. future will decide.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221397 << it's provably the same thing lol.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 21:35:28; jurov: i just wanted to point out that creating new adresses on the fly isn't universally better than generating the from seed
mircea_popescu: the idea (correct, btw) was to pre-create a pool.
mircea_popescu: this is kind-of unavoidable from a crypto security perspective.
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: anvin's, for instance, is missing // interesting, did you notice any other key that has been pulled out ?
shinohai * mircea_popescu has the chinese miners on his side
mircea_popescu: he's been keeping closer tabs than me.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-08-2015#1221422 << yes. make a thing that dumps html☝︎
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 21:40:14; shinohai: Is there still interest in a lame block explorer if i pursue the project?
mircea_popescu: it'll teach you enough about how bitcoind sucks.
shinohai: i know, i have to use php until I learn perl
mircea_popescu: o.OP
mircea_popescu: i can't conceive how this would be done in php.
shinohai: I haz explore in php days away
mircea_popescu: i was thinking you write it in c++, like the rest of the code, can be compiled as an addon
mircea_popescu: but what specifically would php do ? i don't get it ?
mircea_popescu: static html means no php needed or useful.
mircea_popescu: also most people running it would probably not opt to run apache
mircea_popescu: but some minimal webserver.
shinohai: its dirty web studd, not meant to be perm
trinque: you can use it like a template system... but... wai
kakobrekla: if block explorer is to have any usability you imho need to expand db a lot.
mircea_popescu: db-on-disk aka static html files.
kakobrekla: O_o
trinque: hm yeah seems like this should be bolted to dumpblock?
trinque: not bolted, should make use thereof
shinohai: yes trinque
mircea_popescu: why do it on demand ? just dump out the "block explorer" material as you process the txn
trinque: ^ yeah
kakobrekla: blockdumper != blockexplorer
trinque: I know, saying where he can get the data
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you wouldn't know the difference from the clicking side.
kakobrekla: but you would.
mircea_popescu: sure, it won't contain retarded "click here for value in dollars" dongles
mircea_popescu: you don't want those.
kakobrekla: bitcoind on its own gives you ability to do approx nothing. it cant tell me unspent output of an address unless that address is in the wallet (watch only suffices).
mircea_popescu: but, accept a new tx ? add txhash.html in /tx/ dir.
shinohai: no then you are unwittingly pegged, like a fat McWhore
kakobrekla: only if you keep a seperete record
kakobrekla: of all the things
mircea_popescu: accept a new block ? add blockhash.html in /block/
mircea_popescu: reorg a block ? modify its html
mircea_popescu: etc
kakobrekla: how is this better than just doing dump block in your shell
mircea_popescu: at all points there's a purely injective function from blockchain to blockexplorer html pile
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla cause some people wanna click on web things, what.
mircea_popescu: how is anything better than irc and shell. they want the web.
trinque: seems like looking for log messages in the code would be a decent way to find where to hook
kakobrekla: i dont see any use in it, build what you want.
trinque: cmon hypertext is pretty cool
trinque: I hear it's getting big these days
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i see the use of a block explorer website with 0 js on it.
kakobrekla: you dont need js to bloxexplore on current blockexplorers
mircea_popescu: and add a "guaranteed accurate by process" thing to it makes it wunderbar.
mircea_popescu: also the fact that "any node can stand up a block explorer" is just the pill to sink the fucktarded "oh herp, we invested in bc.i" shitticon valley crap.
kakobrekla: blockexplorer != blockdumper
mircea_popescu: i enjoy making their investments worthless for purely political reasons. pederasts gotta learn.
kakobrekla: keep messing up these things.
shinohai: shit
kakobrekla: blockdumper is unable to tell you how much spendables is on a given address.
mircea_popescu: it can list them.
mircea_popescu: i guess you need magic to add them, fine, whatevs.
gernika: Is the pederast epithet a reference to older VCs getting kicks from paying a bunch of young hacker boys to hang out with them?
trinque: lol this thing just uses various *print* functions to log
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu> it can list them. < not trivially.
mircea_popescu: gernika quite exactly. reference : http://trilema.com/2014/why-dogecoin-is-a-scam-why-the-people-pushing-it-are-assholes-why-business-insider-is-a-contemptible-piece-of-shit-why-anyone-who-ever-worked-for-it-will-be-dancing-in-the-street-for-nickels-and-wh/#selection-273.0-281.82
assbot: Why Dogecoin is a scam, why the people pushing it are assholes, why Business Insider is a contemptible piece of shit, why anyone who ever worked for it will be dancing in the street for nickels and why Kevin Rose is a fuckwit. Plus other considerations. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DhWTKQ )
ben_vulpes: welcome, trinque
trinque: ben_vulpes: it hurts!
trinque: everything hurts!
ben_vulpes: so stop doing it or stfu