mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imo that avoxi item sounds fine. send you # ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 22:25 Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
deedbot: anniez voiced for 30 minutes.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858751 << my preferred method is to `ssh -D 8080 host` which sets up a socks proxy with port 8080 on your local machine and outbound on the `host`. you can then configure e.g. firefox to send everything through that proxy
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 22:25 Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
phf: i assume in this case your proxy is as secure as your ssh, you can do it on demand, and you can also run it against any of your remote hosts.
phf: it also helps to have a machine where you have ssh sitting on port 80, for when you are on e.g. hotel internet with a dumb firewall
mircea_popescu: of course, if the place you're in makes this necessary, it is MUCH better to set ssh on port 80 on the local machine and just proceed.
Mocky: yeah mircea_popescu, your level of text output needs a boost...
phf: Mocky:
http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gmsRV/?raw=true you could set these options in firefox's about:config (there's probably a way to do it through gui), they are self explanatory. the last one ensures that dns is routed through socks. the first one can be either 1 or 0. i usually just go into about:config and toggle that to 1 when i need socks (there are probably extensions, etc. etc.)
phf: i learned to jump through these hoops for the motherland
a111: Logged on 2018-09-26 00:18 mircea_popescu: in the end, useless hp box found new life as heroes 2 playstation.
mircea_popescu: by the looks of it, wireless cards on laptops work with os wireless drivers from a 3 to 6 months period around their release. gotta get teh right timing.
mircea_popescu: now, why the fuck would chamberlain choose to only publish a dozen or so of the compat modules, i couldn't guess. but the list there is woefully incomplete, the story goes back at least to 2.4 kernels.
diana_coman: I'll soon do the regrind of eucrypt to move it on to keccak hashes; my plan is to keep the patches precisely as they are otherwise (i.e. including NO manifest until I actually added it at the end); the way I see it, it's just a swap-in-place of one hash for another; if anyone sees this sort of thing differently - since I'm hmmm,first to regrind a big project? - yell now !
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "but mp, you don't understand how the world works" "what is the meaning of '''new''' in the context of '''similar enough to old for this scheme to work''' "oh, it doesn't PROMISE to stay that way! this pile just works as long as it does!" "which isn't a promise ? and if it stops working, what, time for linux-backports-compat-compat, a set of scripts to update the set of scripts that updates...?" "YES!"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: it's seem to me that by the semantics of the bizarro world these gnus inhabit, something working is a promise for that something to keep working. because the criteria by which they use things is "hey -- it works" ("we believe in rough consensus and working code", in in-universe terms), and therefore... everything that ever works thereby promises to keep on working indefinitely and for any possible usecase.
mircea_popescu: now, why the fuck they'd use an implicit grammar-lexicon bundle like this, i have no fucking idea. but the fact that they ~shouldn't~ (which they should not) is NOT opposable to me! since they do, i have my argument!
diana_coman: more like they don't have a notion of "working indefinitely" or even of more than tomorrow
mircea_popescu: in the end, "foss" is not any more coherent, or intellectually respectable, than christianity.
diana_coman: oh, was it supposed to be coherent and not self-contradictory? I missed that part,lol
mircea_popescu: all the problems of computer "engineers" would be directly evident to any literary theorist / linguist / semiologist / gnoseologist / theorist of language / historian of philosophy / etcetera. except for the
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1780289 problem, where they all preferred to chase the cuntherd instead of paying any attention whatsoever to the nonsense dribbling off the red stapler guys crowd.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 22:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 he has no idea ; it's not expensive considering what the actual cost per round is. add in all the capital costs, including the fact you're wasting your time there rather than diddling the local highschool girls' volleyball team...
mircea_popescu: so everyone who has any clue as to how any of this shit works and why is busy derping about "intersectional queeritude" among the DD/lg crowd of paci sucklers,
mircea_popescu: the soviet-ness of this epic wastage of resources is mindblowing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
☟︎ diana_coman: perhaps; I'm not sure though that current theorist/linguist/semiologist/gnoseologist/etc necessarily knows what they are supposed to know
mircea_popescu: i almost felt like an alf for five minutes before running away screaming to the numeric method.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the situation somewhat salvaged by the happenstance that you can't be any of those under about 60 years of age or so. (with exceptions, but they're rare enough).
mircea_popescu: semiology, theory of signs, signifying and significance.
mircea_popescu: phf no that is the other one. semiology is the a c de saussure thing.
mircea_popescu: not that this distinction's with THAT much difference in context.
phf: dangerous, restricted for your own safety
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, i could see the paralel between alf's (not entirely unsuported in practice) notions of "useful physics -- turn of the century, einstein-centric" and "useless physics -- string theory" and semiology/semiotics.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 14:33 mircea_popescu: (nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik another (not as clearly delineated) change between 2.6 and >3.3, because shit "mysteriously" stops working.
phf: i didn't know yuri lotman was a semiotician, back in high school i had to go to sleep with lotman literary analysis books, like those vietnam conscripts with their rifles
mircea_popescu: (large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
mircea_popescu: this position is not without its merit. of course it also proposes literacy as the end of literature ("since they can write their shit to paper, they don't write anythingt worth remembering").
mircea_popescu: but in the end -- no human invention was actually useful. just relatively useful.
phf: i wonder if lotman's post-structuralism is same as the french, or if it's that only in a sense that it's post. anyway, this is cool and i'm going to pick up his other shit next time i'm in moscows
mircea_popescu: phf i have nfi that such a thing as post-structuralism happened in ru. at any rate prior to nuland help.
mircea_popescu: as far as i can discern, ru had delayed-structuralism, 50 years later.
phf: mircea_popescu: i'm reading english pediwikia, i assume it's wildly wrong.
mircea_popescu: well, you're reading the spew of a markov process with expectations of terminologic propriety ?!
mircea_popescu: but anyway, to revisit the literacy angle... "congrats on creating the music recording box, mr. tesla. the side benefit is that in a short time there won't be any musicians worth recording left, because of the competition to their craft your time travelling device produces will destroy the very economic reason for their continued existence".
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 14:47 mircea_popescu: anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
mircea_popescu: black culture used to create music at a time white culture was no longer for the same reason as the above : they were poor and retarded and didn't have music time-travel boxes.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing intrinsically black about jazz new orleans, except for the part where the black people were the only poor enough to still have to entertain themselves.
mircea_popescu: tesla invented the car anyway, i was just making a point, ~in the structuralist style~.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
mircea_popescu: "what sort of blackguard would dare propose that if you give children dildos they'd put it in playdo ?! THAT IS NOT WHERE ID EVER STICK A DILDO! THIS IS WRONGOG!!!"
phf: i wouldn't blame "children!" on alan kay though, he's a product of piaget's huge influence on post-hippie american academia
mircea_popescu: phf "influence" in the sense of some morons that spoke neither french, nor german, nor italian. piaget was fucking swiss.
mircea_popescu: if anyone dares talk of "mp's influence" in a century in fucking chinese, ima personally return with all my dead friends and feed them dead dumplings.
phf: in russia they say "he hears the bells, but doesn't know where they are coming from"
mircea_popescu had heard this befoar as "the dog hears the bells, but doesn't understand where from".
phf: i'm not sure the dog part fits
phf: the idea is that if you don't know the particular location from which the bells are ringing you will misinterpret their meaning
phf: if it's a human who's hearing then the stress is on the meaning, where if it's a dog the stress becomes on the location (i.e. the dog would want to seek out the source)
phf: but yeah "influence" of piaget as reduced to "children learn best through play"
mircea_popescu: dogs are notoriously incapable of sound location. cats and humans very capable.
mircea_popescu: but possibly meaning was different -- best i can tell the idea was that receptor is incapable of decoding message for substantive lack. usually applied in school context, "class bells draw some kids to class, has no effect on others" sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: which "children learn best through play" is even true, but the catch is -- children do nothing else anyway. if they learn at all...
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 15:02 mircea_popescu: (large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
mircea_popescu: ahh, this article. "Some examples [limited strictly to girls&faggots styles, because forcing the sisters to play victim in some sort of injuns&cowboys game is very much not what kids do first and foremost] of symbolic play include playing house, or having a tea party. "
mircea_popescu: i kinda like the femtard rewrite of piaget. it's something i always wanted to see in my formative years, "what if there was a monastery of mongoloids somewhere, and they hand-copied the texts '''as best they cou;d''' ?". it'd have been solid gold for the anthropologist / historian of religion, back when he still cared. but... no such thing.
phf: hehe it's true, whatever learned through cliffsnotes, rewritten "in own words", with the originals on a bookshelf as totems of learning
mircea_popescu: because no, it's not such an idle question as all that -- there is a whole subset of four-five ish to maybe sixish year olds who genuinely look like they're just about to fuck but for the lack of functional organs and knowledge of function.
mircea_popescu: children indeed do not nor ever do play "tea party" without insistent adult intervention -- and even then not long past its cessation. but children very much do play something errily akin to what today'd pass for "bdsm" accuplation, male dominated, female receptive sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: and thanks fucking dog for the trilema, otherwise i'd be pretty hard pressed to make that whole 2013 point in the narrow space between two irc lines. or for that matter narrow time.
phf: every "tea party" i've ever been invited to degraded very rapidly once parents were satisfied with their cursory inspection and left us alone. at the time i was convinced it was my doing, but now i realize that the cover up is the format
mircea_popescu: (the "best they could" line is, who could have ever guessed, a throwback to "il joue comme il peut, le pauvre" line in le petit baigneur. because i speak french, what! and "speak" dun mean "my hoovercraft is fulla eels", not here anyway.)
phf: diana_coman: kk, will test and upload
phf: apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
☟︎ phf: open question for forum ^
mircea_popescu: i frankly do not perceive we have a bootstrapping problem. bootstrapping occurs when you have to turn a primitive into an ulterior -- there is such a thing as a bootstrapping problem of the fetus into adulthood because all adults start as foetii.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, sha is historical accident, nothing starts as it, thence no boot. therefore -- just publish it self referentially and who dun like can go to hell.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:18 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i like the new v format, but i also very strongly wish to avoid coming to resemble the urbit people, with their 'aah we restarted the universe for the 7th time'
BingoBoingo: I see not reason not to go with the tar seeing how gnupatch is enemy materials
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i mean, what's the boot sequence here contemplated ?
mircea_popescu: but phf, who is the author of the thing, did not in fact lose his head and arm by the process of having released the "original" ie sha version. he can just as much authorship a "new" ie, keccak version. and it'll be EXACTLY as much a genesis as that was, in ALL respects.
mircea_popescu: ie, that there's a relationship between "old" and "new" is a tenuous point, if by relationship is meant more than "phf wrote"
mircea_popescu: in the sense that you suspect he might be trustworthy in general, but a liar as to that specific narrowly construed topic ?
mircea_popescu: (notwithstanding how the narrow construction obviously reflects your own measuring tools and naught else ?)
mircea_popescu: if "phf signed" is ~not~ enough proof to you, then why is "phf signed" enough proof to you that his vtools doesn't come alive at night andf fuck my wife ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not agree that heuristic is useful.
mircea_popescu: and you want to build a State around protecting him thusly from himself ?
mircea_popescu: the best definition i currently have for "State" is "collection of simple mechanisms without actual function".
mircea_popescu: this is true ; but in this case there's no continuity to be maintained. phf is the sole contributor of the entire tree.
mircea_popescu: pretty much ~any~ regrind, regenesis, etc of this item bearing his signature is ~idempotent~ to extant material.
mircea_popescu: kinda the "what exactly" delineation is the point of this discussion. obv the actual case is relatively unimportant.
mircea_popescu: so -- what exactly is lost if phf just signs and publishes a new tree ?
mircea_popescu: i could see the direct "well -- i had read his old one ; dun wanna re-read the new one, if it's same." but... i thought re-reading was one of our values ?
mircea_popescu: "yes mp, but best used other places, it's still expensive" "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?" "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
mircea_popescu: right. then it follows, "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?". is your retort here what i imaginarily quoted, "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
mircea_popescu: i frankly don't see much problem with it either way ; but i will say that your lie-detectors suffer from a certain naivite, whereby they're tuned to catch reality lying (ie, something that has no reflexivity, will lie regardless of your apparatus). this is not so useful with people.
mircea_popescu: which is why the joib of research scientist and science educator diverges : you teach people by permitting them to get themselves caught. women, too.
mircea_popescu: i somehow doubt re-reading his vtools is such a waste ; but anyways!
mircea_popescu: alf did not go to school of scholarly beauty, "oh, that is the best one you've made so far, here, let me break it up for you and do it again".
mircea_popescu: in diff life, alf will be convicted to be painter, go through above process, lose mind.
mircea_popescu: as long as you patch on his keccak tree i can't see how it could not be.
mircea_popescu: what's not physically impossible is that his code would greatly benefit from another read by an alf infuriated by the chore. but anyways!
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 16:40 phf: apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
diana_coman: well, if it's "give" then it will have to be signed tar as far as I can tell, I still don't see why one would basically import gnu patch just in order to "give n00b" anything; the options are always either "take what exists i.e. on trust " (in which case archive) or "go and make your own" in which case what's the problem
diana_coman: the part I don't get is: what does "pressed manually with gnupatch" earn you vs "manually verify sig on this archive here"? (I assume the archive won't be 100MB of shit, ofc)
diana_coman: my understanding was that the starter would be just that, fixed minimal thing to get started, I don't see the need to change it and/or keep in sync
diana_coman: in that case the "starter" is using cuntoo, sure
trinque: yeah, not being cute and renaming anything
trinque: the thing's far too wrapped in on itself yet
trinque: I do not intend to boil the ocean by replacing portage
trinque: what I'm doing is replacing the "rsync ebuilds from server" mechanism
trinque: yep, I'm just making sure nobody expects more than "caught linux in working state at point in time" just yet
☟︎ trinque: mhm, perhaps source gets slurped directly into ebuild dirs as time goes on. open question yet how that step proceeds.
trinque: also questionable whether there's such thing as a republican portage, or whether it all ought to be trashed for something gprbuild-based and with far less optionality.
☟︎ trinque: just a bridge off the infected island
trinque: bsd ports tree uses exactly make for this
trinque: sure, vtron presses the ports tree, gprbuild builds
trinque: no need to chimerize where necessity doesn't force
trinque: ah I was over here trying to figure out what webcomic that was, maybe oatmeal
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 20:05 asciilifeform: 'Discussion regarding article about apple and amazon denied that Chinese spies implemented backdoor chips into hardware' << uhm, 'казнить нельзя помиловать'
mircea_popescu: neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion << no FUCKING way.
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking point of the entire new v was to be able to represent deletion of files.
mircea_popescu: we discussed this extensively, before phf even started. new vtools is perfectly capable of describing the deletion/movement/etc of ~any files~.
mircea_popescu: i really don't like this constant process you got in your head going sed -e 's/i don't know/doesn't exist/' everything-i-never-read.txt
phf: asciilifeform is right, i dropped the ball on it. i prototyped it right after we had a conversation, and then i had the four months of fiat work, and i forgot that it was on my plate.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we had solution to that, whole discussion with fully specified filenames, on it goes.
mircea_popescu: i don't give a shit. let all format breakingds HAPPEN AT ONCE
phf: format breaks only in a sense that gnu patch won't press it. current vpatches that don't delete/rename (since the feature is not there) will never the less work with any future changes to vtools
phf: mircea_popescu: i understand, it's the height of idiocy on my part
phf: asciilifeform: because binary we've been going back and forth on over many conversations over the past year. e.g. mp-wp was rewritten to not use binaries because around the time the resolution was to not pack binaries into vpatches and instead move in the direction of human readable formats
phf: asciilifeform: i don't have binary diffing even in prototype form, if you could adaize your needleman-wunsch i could add it to vtools, the way i did with diana_coman's keccak
☟︎ phf: my first priority is to revive delete/rename though since i have algo and code for it
phf: there are three distinct options: deletions and renames (which is handled by mp algo), creations (that can be handled by e.g. <size><content in hex>) and diffing (which is top complexity, needing e.g. needleman-wunsch)
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: right
phf: i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
☟︎☟︎