mod6: "I was told core has all the best dev and you guys let us down like this..." << lmao
deedbot: magicmoose voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: is coreboot the thing with the derposexual trying to posture itself into relevancy on other people's code ?
davout: so i did some reading re the wallet separation thing and ended up realizing i had an incorrect idea about trb's internals
davout: i thought i'd find an in-memory UTXO index, which i didn't. appears to me like trb will have to keep some sort of "watched addresses list" after all, or that such an index will have to be bolted in somehow
davout: the former looks like the most practicable option at this point
deedbot: dm0n_ voiced for 30 minutes.
Reuel: Anyone following this? CIA dump
mircea_popescu: speaking of, asciilifeform what about that ada rsa for eulora!
Reuel: "CIA air-gap jumping viruses" lol gonna read this
mircea_popescu: hey, didn't that hawking fellow have an eyeball typewriter ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, shutting down the "lp/c2" bs is about half the fun of this internet life.
mircea_popescu: half the time they don't even bother to argue the point, go down like common malware artists.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the "law enforcement" / terrorist government bs reduces to "we're like in the top 20 or so malware houses". hurr.
mircea_popescu: hardly worth 0.1% of the budget. "cyberwarfare" hurr durr.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the fellow who was looking to be useful could write a phuctor - confirmed - by - wikileaks piece for qntra.
mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem being that it's way the fuck easier to spend day clicking through lolpics and "voting" on whatever retarded 2.0 site than reading the logs ; which then down the road means that one can'd do jack shit that's useful because drooled in class instead of paying attention. and so it goes, the gap between man and cow ever deepens.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure you did, especially given that there totally even are other things to do irl. like... what ?
mircea_popescu: Framedragger they have a point, indians don't do unit tests.
BingoBoingo: Who wants the honor of writing of Wikileaks Phuctor gloating for Qntra?
Framedragger commits to writing at least one article in june (or maybe even before) #preplanninglikeachump
shinohai is busy with whoreticulture but may have time later if no one else steps up ....
Framedragger: some kind of boys club with too much time on their hands lol.
BingoBoingo: If no one else writes /me will, but mostly offering mircea_popescu and asciilifeform, S.NSA partners well earned "dibs" if they want them
a111: Logged on 2017-03-07 14:25 mircea_popescu: davout this links into which part of the conversation ?
davout: mircea_popescu: howso ?
mircea_popescu: "what part of the conversation this links to ?" "no, just stuff going on in my head" "seems like stuff going on in your head" "how so"
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 22:41 mod6: i haven't heard on davout's progress recently.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-19 22:40 mircea_popescu: curious how davout 's work on splitting function is coming along btw
davout: back at square one, did some reading to get started on implementing what i had in mind (full scan of the UTXO upon request for UTXOs relevant to addresses)
mircea_popescu: did what you have in mind come from a discussion here at any point ?
davout: found out that i in fact hallucinated the existence of this index, which may or may not have been added later on to prb, but was absent from trb
davout: yeah, i remember talking about it here
mircea_popescu: "how so" "because you didn't link to the conversation here, you linked to your own thingee"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:00 davout: thestringpuller: UTXO set is ~2gb tops, indexing might be nice but necessary to scan for UTXOs that match a given set of addresses, also the wallet part can cache them if that particular wallet is the only one able to actually spend those UTXIs
davout: asciilifeform: yeah, you did mention it also during that thread
mircea_popescu: i also recall a thread re how to do this with maybe mimi or else deedbot, which i don't think is that one
davout: asciilifeform: the idea was that the internet facing piece shouldn't have this kind of information
mircea_popescu: (but yes, this was broadly the idea there, index by arbitrary-address-list)
davout: well, obviously, but there's no particular reason your signed tx has to go out through ~your~ node
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 20:42 mircea_popescu: this scheme among other things cheaply allows the "add arbitrary new address to wallet", just have utility that (separately) processes B.B and produces new set of B.T.
mircea_popescu: davout so the competing idea, other than "maintain uxto unspent index", was "maintain index of txn involving specified list of addresses"
davout: the existing wallet already does that
davout: 1. the principle of the thing where the wallet is coupled to the node and chain storage
mircea_popescu: i thought that was adequately resolved through layering.
davout: 2. the way the existing trb wallet currently works, mainly the automatic utxo selection
mircea_popescu: i also dun get 2. how's the fact you already have the index you need related to the fact prb fucks up output selection ?
davout: it's not really related
davout: has the index, should ask user to select outputs, not automagically generate transaction
davout: so basically i thought it would be quite easy to cleanly decouple the wallet from the node, but i'm now stuck with the realization that for now the most workable option will simply be to make small improvements here and there
mircea_popescu: well, if you're not willing the read the jan 3rd discussion, i guess.
davout: i did read actually, but seems it didn't really stick
mircea_popescu: lol ok. anyway, the issue is that you seemed diverged, ie conversation is there, you're doing something else with no real discussion of why / what's wrong with it / etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 20:51 davout: hrm, i'll have to re-read
davout: mircea_popescu: i agree that the description made in the convo you linked is a very desirable target architecture
davout: as far as the wallet is concerned it's pretty much "when new address is added, rescan blockchain, have relevant txes in specific collection"
davout: i don't see any fundamental problem with it
mircea_popescu: i don't see the user has a leg to stand on, "i'm not sure which my addresses are". if you add some - there's a (minor) penalty.
davout: in essence, that's already what trb does
mircea_popescu: keeping a pile of ALL utxos, as the alternative, is not very good, because you end up storing a bunch of (potentially toxic) crap
davout: i thought trb was keeping them in ram already
davout: which allowed any existing node to trivially serve any arbitrary wallet, at the cost of a 2gb memory scan for unspent outs
☟︎ davout: it would have allowed some level of split, but anyway, this particular idea is dead since trb doesn't have this in-memory data structure
davout: so now, re your description, i'm not sure what a good start would be, because cutting it the way you described sounds like a mega-project that encompasses more than the mere wallet
davout: well, as i understand it the end result is a different set of binaries that talk together through a $to-be-defined queue mechanism
davout: and even if single binary, still sounds like a large architectural rewrite
mircea_popescu: you can just take stock trb, operate on it, and place it so it only connects to operator-specified trb nodes.
mircea_popescu: then you can take stock trb, operate on it, and so people interested can pick both version, have internal-external couple.
mircea_popescu: conceivably can use current trb as your genesis for this.
davout: yeah, take a few trbs and cut different parts from each basically
davout: design a way for them to talk together
mircea_popescu: then also conceivably the changes will be backported into trb main once well tested
mircea_popescu: well no, let them talk to each other as they do now exactly.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-07 17:22 davout: which allowed any existing node to trivially serve any arbitrary wallet, at the cost of a 2gb memory scan for unspent outs
mircea_popescu: this has been a honest-to-god real-time davout node emerging in march going "so guyse... chatlog-block-419333 is highest rite ?" and resyncs ensued.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: you understand ? backfeed fucking computing, "if i do this this happens so you press thios button" sorta excel-dev.
davout: this split really doesn't sound that simple to me
mircea_popescu: i suspect it's the simplest-possible, which still doesn't promise it's simpler than any arbitrary level.
davout: see, i don't see how it could be done without designing another way for nodes to communicate in another way than the currently existing protocol
trinque: davout: there is also eatblock
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just about. and large in the sense of alcatel not in the sense of alphabet, at that.
trinque: wallet node could be munching with that hole
davout: for example, how does the wallet perform a reindex, without storing the chain itself
mircea_popescu: meh. wallet doesn't NOT store the chain. it's just stock trb.
mircea_popescu: if net-trb decides to engage in a reorg, it will eventually induce one in all the wallet-trbs connected to it.
trinque: why would it send either? crap a signed tx and operator feeds it to network node
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally your ssh thing may well have been a major step forward for this split.
davout: asciilifeform: knowing about incoming txes before they've confirmed?
trinque: why does that help anything?
trinque: isn't in a block; may *never* be in a block
mircea_popescu: i concur. "unconfirmed tx" is improperly thought of as a tx.
davout: asciilifeform: mebbe operator wants to check his tx propagated?
trinque: and if I wanted that I'd want to do it as a "mempool explorer" tool
davout: i really don't feel strongly about this, just thinking out loud
davout: (this unconfirmed tx thing)
BingoBoingo: ty asciilifeform, figured I'd take big picture leaving opportunity for experts to fill in mined lulz with further submissions
Framedragger: isn't internet backbone basically juniper + cisco still? :(
Framedragger: i thought huawei only made consumer shit? (not that that's reassuring...)
Framedragger: i see - i'm behind on the internet of shit it seems
trinque: no lets get rid of openfirmware; it doesn't x, y, and ...
trinque: it may sadden those that don't yet know that open firmware was a dead simple forth nugget. i.e. in the sense that apple for a brief time meant dead simple.
a111: Logged on 2015-08-02 20:02 mircea_popescu: siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do.
trinque: unsolved problem for reality too
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: To be fair about lack of Bitcoin, this is CIA rapidly reinventing own "NSA"
BingoBoingo: Well, draining has just begun. Build windmill and pump!
BingoBoingo: And thus pumping needs to begin. Change pressure on the container and see what fails
trinque: would've been nice if punkman studied this when he first saw it.
trinque has such a checkpoints-cauterized node wedged at that very block, will in fact study
trinque: 124276 happens to be a 1 txn block btw
trinque: this guy's running with -connect to deedbot.org node
trinque: sec and I'll grab some logs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. the nsa itself long knew it is both a) deeply ineffectual and b) extremely loud. which is why now and again i say something to the effect of "wtf straw must one have in head to work for those dorks, move on already."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> not even the directorate which runs the gavins, the hearns, ever seems to leak so much as a drop. << the reason is that utterly nobody gives a shit.
trinque: not nearly so much as "omg caught pirate robertz" or "pedo dark web lair"
mircea_popescu: nobody working for idiot empire makes much. this is a recurrent fantasy of yours, but not more.
mircea_popescu: no ; because if a girl who does nothing but fucks up and sucks my cock makes a grand, that grand does not get divided by 0.000000epsilon to result in TWENTY BRILLIONS!!1
mircea_popescu: the only difference between slavegirl in my household and usg employee is that a) i whip mine and b) after a while they are sensibly better at everything. the usg drones don't get whipped and don't improve.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's the same. i sent a bunch of girls on a bunch of missions this month, with various wads of cash.
mircea_popescu: except for the part where IT IS MY CASH, they could just as well have been "government employees"
trinque: couldn't find the log, but the other day mircea_popescu discussed that some pedo case's dismissal had very much to do with that the guy refused to LARP with them re: their importance.
trinque: no one can seriously claim the guy wearing steampunk goggles and going to conferences isn't LARPing in the grand american tradition of pretense to existing
mircea_popescu: trinque no but it's exactly it, an exercise in serving the phantasmagorical.
mircea_popescu: (gedankenexperiment, what would happen if you could produce any item by thinking about it.)
trinque: the stay-puffed marshmallow man, elementarily
trinque: i.e. any manner of destructive nonsense, or cancer of the imagination
trinque: first ghostbusters, the david bowie lesbian god tells them to choose teh form of their destroyer
trinque: first thing that popped into what's his name 80s hack's head was the marshmallow man
mircea_popescu wanders back to his zuleika rewrite that he's been labouring on since weekend.
mircea_popescu: expect an 80kword novel to be dropped on your heads later this week dear all.
trinque: I guess it wouldn't be the only "serious" gay men's club on earth.
trinque cannot connect those inputs to "luvv anime bois"
mircea_popescu: i don't see why it's such a big deal, i included all sorts of strange in the logs, what of it ?
deedbot: onlooker voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: Well onlooker certainly lives up to his handle.
shinohai: Maybe they get paid by # of connections
trinque: somebody's boss's boss just orders that X must infiltrate and monitor, and yes sir right away sir.
trinque: and so he does the most visibile thing such that boss sees him working, and he goes back to reading reddit.
mircea_popescu: alternatively random guy clicked a link, hasn't even noticed the tab among the symphony of tabs on his ie.
mod6: <+trinque>
http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-05#1008972 << mod6, is that why this patch did not make it in? << i don't think it was because of any such wedge. i think we held off because it was proposed that there might have been a better way to handle that through configuration files. it's all in the logs if you look in around the time that email was sent; december of '14.
☝︎ trinque: meanwhile found some discussion, yep
trinque: and in fact, meanwhile found that it was my own build environment hauling in libressl on openbsd
trinque: stripping out of checkpoints. I'd done it here myself days ago before finding that you had already in 2016
trinque: maybe; seems like a data structure that somebody would love to spooge malicious values into via some other (networking code) exploit
trinque: having a branch available to skip verification ~at all~ seems questionable.
trinque: indeed, I'm snipping and mapping for entirely that reason.
trinque: asciilifeform: need an ssh pubkey for it iirc?
trinque: k will generate shortly and send it to ya