assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.0005168 = 26.2018 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98235 @ 0.00051292 = 50.3867 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 145274 @ 0.00050124 = 72.8171 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12976 @ 0.00049661 = 6.444 BTC [-]
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 284.13, vol: 6222.69687933 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 280.56, vol: 5019.50454 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 285.08, vol: 11510.87784978 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 291.84, vol: 0.51593653 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 283.61277, vol: 10554.99960000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 282.7, vol: 36.60723768 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 286.027924, vol: 32.92292037 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00050801 = 24.3337 BTC [+]
decimation: no, you see bitcoin is unusable because the btc/usd price swings wildly
gribble: Current Blocks: 368449 | Current Difficulty: 5.227830484559168E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 368927 | Next Difficulty In: 478 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 17 hours, 37 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47150109359.0 | Estimated Percent Change: -9.80941
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... << wanna bet this will be parcelled out for strictly nominal fee (if any) to favourite sons? just like fucking radio spectrum << Probably not yet. This seems like a clean return to keep the fire burning. Now later...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20594 @ 0.00052819 = 10.8775 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: there are plenty of other class A blocks
decimation: the 'shortage of ipv4 addresses' is strictly imaginary
decimation: not all of them, some are controlled by us corps
BingoBoingo thinks 2 meter band has promise. Still needs to get radio.
decimation: BingoBoingo: it's kinda like slightly less retarded CB
decimation: I find shortwave to be more interesting
decimation: but it takes years of 'reading logs' to know what's on there
BingoBoingo: Sure, but on the used market there seems to be some actually interesting rigs made for it with broad listening spectrum.
decimation: asciilifeform: it's a big deal, hams know their number is up
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: you may also discover the little 'secret' re: how ham folks keep usg from selling their spectrum to the highest bidder (or most favourite son) << The part where cellular is worthless?
decimation: my understanding is that the fcc doesn't give a fuck unless it interferes with broadcast radio or aircraft
decimation: asciilifeform: they do more than just report 'pirates'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104159 @ 0.0005338 = 55.6001 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: yeah, because usg is too lazy to do it
decimation: who else is gonna keep people off their bands
decimation: apparently 'grow lights' are extremely terrible rfi generators
decimation: to the point that they can effectively jam shortwave for miles
decimation: hams complain to the fcc: why aren't you cracking down on noisy-ass producers?
decimation: apparently extremely shitty ballasts on florescents
decimation: "Being anonymous and trying to fly under "the radar" is not easy when you are generating this much RF interference. The fourth item in the table was 1/2 mile away and still was easily heard on 40 meters.
decimation: yeah actually if the conditions are right you could pick that stuff up from 1000 miles away
decimation: ah apparently they use 1000w high pressure sodium lights
decimation: I can't imagine that these lights are installed safely
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> poor idiots, broadcasting 'i am growing weed!' for miles << I remember freshman year of undergrad being high as fuck reading about infared indentification of marijuana and not realizing till I sobered up that they were talking grow lights and not smoke.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> ah apparently they use 1000w high pressure sodium lights << Best part of spectrum for plant growth.
BingoBoingo: Then change color temperature to maximise flowering
decimation: sure, but to handle that kind of power you really should use 220v circuits
decimation: and non-shit magnetic ballasts, cost $$
BingoBoingo: Depends on scale? Maybe scale demands 660 volt or 1.3kilovolt?
☟︎ decimation: well, I'm assuming most installations use several of these 1000w units
decimation: but if you are going to do it industrially, than 480v three-phase
BingoBoingo: Honestly by now I'd expect them to embrace the LED efficienty or build their own reactors.
decimation: I think they do make LED grow lights but then you are talking $$$$
decimation: yeah but high pressure sodium is less than $500
decimation: granted, it's less efficent, but you gotta invest for the long term to make back that kind of money
BingoBoingo: Lighting really doesn't need that much time to roi.
decimation: well, it appears to cost 5x up front for roughly double the efficiency
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33956 @ 0.00053373 = 18.1233 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: decimation: If serious though why go for apparatus designed for "grow"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> or for that matter, let transgenic e.coli piss out the active ingredients of the dope << Soon
decimation: I suspect if were simple it would have been done already
BingoBoingo: There's already opiate shitting e. coli probably it will take one niche at a time.
decimation: same thing. I think they still grow poppies for us opiate industry
BingoBoingo: <decimation> I suspect if were simple it would have been done already << Why no 7nm junction consumer chips?
decimation: because it's neigh impossible to scale euv light sources?
decimation: I suspect that usg isn't too heartbroken over it
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (cheapest still when there are armies ~defending~ your fields - e.g., u.s. army in afghan) << Medical poppy in India, Culinary poppy in Eastern Europe, and Recreational poppy in Afghanistan
decimation: well, what else are they gonna grow? dirt?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin << US pretty rotten with heroin too. DEA pressure on doctors and economy will do that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19986 @ 0.00051451 = 10.283 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Back in 1910 US was rotting with tincures of opium. Now Zohydro is stocked to the gills in most pharmacies.
decimation: according to wikipedia it's not legal to grow poppies for food seed/paste
assbot: Logged on 18-07-2015 21:13:26; jurov: and its brother makovník, best stuffed by so much poppy seed that it makes you very sleepy
decimation: asciilifeform: surely in ru/ukraine they have something similar
BingoBoingo: Most "medical" opiates come from Indian latex and EU straw. Seeds aren't an economicaly viable source of drug product.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but it was probably from an importer << ROasted seeds are happily imported en mass.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83767 @ 0.00051451 = 43.099 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/08/04/russia_locust_invasion_swarms_of_locusts_devastate_crops_defy_government.html << Meanwhile no US news stories on the molds which are going to reduce North American grain yields substantially this year.
decimation: yeah it's been terribly wet in the midwest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.0005285 = 11.5742 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: I'd use a stronger word than terribly, but... local fields look like shit. Shit corn and god only knows if the soy will produce beans before becoming silage. I expect the mold to cause more than a few dairy die offs when it makes it to silage.
☟︎ decimation: yeah makes sense. looks like usg's weather bureau is calling for a cold and wet winter for the southern half of the us
BingoBoingo: Winter doesn't really matter much in the scheme of things outside the California desert.
decimation: not as far as food productiong goes, no
BingoBoingo: Dry summers kill crops. Hot wet summers kill crops. The best a we winter does here is offers crops a marginal head start.
BingoBoingo: This year though with the water so far has been awfully bad for orchards.
decimation: amusingly california is still lacking water
decimation: although it looks like the colorado river will be up
BingoBoingo: In a month and a half it will be interesting to see if edible apples happen this year.
BingoBoingo: If the apple trees start breaking up like the peach trees when they put out fruit this year that will be a double whammy rare, takes a decade to catch up damage.
BingoBoingo: Winter 2013-2014 we got weeks of subzero weather, but no lasting damage. Summer 2012 mega-drought (by midwest standards) best peaches ever no lasting damage. This year with a bit cooler than normal summer and lots of rain... it looks like shit is going to be expensive for a while
decimation: eh, people will just get apples from new zealand
BingoBoingo: Maybe? Or perhaps they just won't get apples because economy.
jordandotdev: I don't know it was in my autojoin channels list
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: WHat ails you? Kittens? Puppies?
ben_vulpes: an surfeit of things to do and people to do them
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> increasingly, becoming a problem i nthe us, too. << tell me about it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25971 @ 0.0005145 = 13.3621 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: Has giant ragweed made it that far north yet?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:03:47; BingoBoingo: Depends on scale? Maybe scale demands 660 volt or 1.3kilovolt?
decimation: in us you must have 'note from local stalin' ie zoning board
BingoBoingo waiting for mails. Doing the dance again with Uni to set up job interview. This time as customer service god. Would once again take cheapest of accomodations available for the lulz.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13031 @ 0.00050581 = 6.5912 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: europe uses 220 for residential, 380 optional. or otherwise you can get a 2 or 5kv industrial line.
BingoBoingo: Fuck it, I want the raw shit before it hits the transformer. I want to light my abode with an arc stretching across the room.
BingoBoingo: Ozone isn't as bad as the cigarettes I already smoke
decimation: us actually uses 240 for residential but it's delivered in two phases which are split at the panel. but it's common to use the full 240 for dryers and large equipment
mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely clear why the thiord phase is 160 rather than 110 in eu syste, but anywya
decimation: yeah for example in us 3-phase 480 volt, half (phase to neutral) is 240
decimation: which is what is split off and run to house
decimation: typically ac voltage is worked in rms, because it acts like dc
decimation didn't take power engineering in ee school; had other things to worry about
decimation: my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time
decimation: I found it disappointing that having an ee degree counts for nothing when designing wiring for your house
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: You don't understand. If Assad did this the rope would be on Ebay
decimation: asciilifeform: go try to pull an electrical permit from pg county on the basis of your degrees
BingoBoingo: <decimation> my understanding is that europe it is common for ee's to be forced to work in actual 'electrical trade' for a time << In hometown I once pulled permit to fuck with wiring by saying "Hey mayor Joe, sign this"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not on front page yet, but may as well submit since no one else took this low hanging tomato
decimation: asciilifeform: you should try that in pg county
mircea_popescu: nah, the idea is that if you get a good enough achievement, you get auto-diploma or w/e.
mircea_popescu: i got to bypass normal college entrance exams because olympiads.
mircea_popescu: so yeah, can practice medicine on basis of nobel prize.
decimation: think of all the bureaucrats that would suddenly be powerless
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, same for pharmacists & other medical 'trades'
mircea_popescu: iirc had that too. if decades of practice, valid degree by default.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:22:02; asciilifeform: for instance, where are the u.s. coast guard interdictors sunk by quadcopter-borne demolition charges ?
mircea_popescu: the idiotic non-violent behaviour of ruminants is not limited to ruminants. nobody really aims to gore the other party.
mircea_popescu: it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ?
mircea_popescu: pencildicks wanna use the heads. because dicks frangible.
decimation: they do when the papers say embarassing things
decimation: otherwise the bureaucrats don't give a fuck
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:24:30; asciilifeform: the common belief in ru, i will note, is that usg involvement in afghan is ~strictly, solely~ so that ru cities are rotted with heroin
mircea_popescu: heroin is really the perfect answer to the overpopulation problem.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Cloud cleanses all historicity
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2014 01:44:19; asciilifeform: or mrs. thatcher's 'we need no more than 15 mil. russians. to service the pipeline.'
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the problem is simply this : as you get successful you get fat, and that fat is then... coming to expect.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's a game. who do they actually interdict, the "criminal" "biker gangs" ? << Much of this demographic is USG. Not in the informant sense, but USG peeps needed meanign in their lives.
ben_vulpes: has anyone else compiled the maxint patch and received db.log errors of "unable to join environment"?
☟︎ decimation: asciilifeform: did you figure out how you are gonna 'free' the data pointed to by map?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 02:36:09; BingoBoingo: I'd use a stronger word than terribly, but... local fields look like shit. Shit corn and god only knows if the soy will produce beans before becoming silage. I expect the mold to cause more than a few dairy die offs when it makes it to silage.
decimation: in which cpp file is the allocation stuff?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Can make HCFS, but... less of it. Far less ears on the corn than I expect to see.
decimation: my uni was across the river from massive hfcs plant. every day whole *trains* of hfcs tank cars would leave the station there
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't even see it doing anything with strace
ben_vulpes: i'll try to nuke some state and come back with more useful information.
ben_vulpes: however the build i made on 7-15 with the dumpblock patch boots from the same datadir.
mircea_popescu: gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7
mircea_popescu: 65865b6fdb76424c2535cf7a5f203fc88a541927e3e113db5c26a82e8a0561a8ca428ebe6611b1122f5ebc88c6bf3a3bcf1306ecfb1f4b4af29200967de43fc1
decimation: asciilifeform: so the basic problem with the map is that it never goes out of scope?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: did you find a reason why maxint wouldn't work, or is the second patch just using mircea_popescu's lock values for 'myzteeri0us reezuns'?
ben_vulpes: so i am to expect that patches arriving in the ML aren't even tested now?
ben_vulpes: plz for to slightly more detail in patchdescs.
decimation: oh I thought this was all about the stl map, not boost unordered map
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he still has a point. a) we're careening dangerously towards -dev levels and b) people can't fucking follow wtf is on that list.
☟︎☟︎ ben_vulpes: started at ml, canonical information repository.
ben_vulpes: second patch contained a link to mp's "dis wat i do, yo"
mircea_popescu: you know world is on fire to that degree pretty much weekly.
ben_vulpes: not even a note in correction about "lol sry first patch doesn't work"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> was hoping, glass cannon fired. << Might never fire
ben_vulpes: not that i'm not infinitely indebted to you for unwedging my coracle but a hint of context'd be useful.
mircea_popescu: the ml process needs some reviewing. it's sort of grown organically to a point where it's troublematic.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, most everyone but us has a stable and a testing list.
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate the heroism of "fuck you, it's all stable". but then that comes at a cost.
mircea_popescu: the more common cop out is "fuck you, it's all testing".
ben_vulpes: "all testing" which is what we've seen to date.
mircea_popescu: of course the logical approach would be to promote to stable ml patches that were signed
mircea_popescu: which is why the fuck we evern have the complexsignature scheme in place.
mircea_popescu: plox tell me it's not one of those where everyone is waiting for me to do it first or something.
mircea_popescu: how about submiutting a "This doesn't work - don't use it" thing on the broken one
ben_vulpes: i'm all for barriers to entry here but this is a goddamn development obstacle course
ben_vulpes is struck by the eerie resemblance to $dayjaeorb here
ben_vulpes: "i don't know, let's test it during code review"
decimation: I'm still confused about this map thing. does anyone know exactly which map ascii is talking about?
decimation: this is an infinite argument amoung developers: 'repo is for good code', 'no repo is for new code as it is being written'
ben_vulpes: the fewer enforced constraints upon us, the more discipline with which we must act.
BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?
☟︎ ben_vulpes: last release, i'd prefer. asciilifeform tends to stack his patches atop one another.
ben_vulpes: if you're up to date on the patching, submit a patch and note its antecedents.
ben_vulpes: this makes for quite the testing nightmare. those interested in testing must reverse applied patches to your antecedent tip and then apply yours.
ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: but this is bitcoin, where since time immemorial people have been shipping code that can only ever be tested in production and then standing by in amazement claiming that "nobody could have predicted!"
trinque: hey yo, I made a lot of noise about process early on
trinque: then stepped back when shouted down
trinque: the patch signing is great, but it's not a process by itself
trinque: will either need tools built to support it, or will need to grab tools
trinque: I had a hell of a time figuring out where I should be re: patches, at least before giving up and using rotor instead.
ben_vulpes: "a real contributor would write all of their own tooling to solve this"
ben_vulpes: "what's so hard about applying patches to your private repository?"
ben_vulpes: "what, you want to automate this process that keeps the tards at bay?"
trinque: the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness"
☟︎ trinque: then you can you know, use a power drill
trinque: and still work with non-dickheads
ben_vulpes: "what, you want to automate the nuclear power plant?"
ben_vulpes: i'm just trying to operate within these crazy boundaries. i don't have any process improvements that i'm sure wouldn't get shot down in a new york second from asciilifeform.
ben_vulpes: *i* have a repo. *it* has a *stable* and an *experimental* branch.
trinque: I bet it's in git too, you filthy swine
ben_vulpes: how much hell would i catch for sharing this with others?
trinque: look everything's bad. bad bad bad
trinque: I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table
trinque: gonna rebuild everything on earth? or gonna start somewhere
decimation: I thought ascii was okay with repos as long as it was clear which patches 'caused' the repo state
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59768 @ 0.00050358 = 30.098 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators"
☟︎ decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside
☟︎☟︎ trinque: you can do the same process better with a hierarchy of git repos
ben_vulpes: patches and signatures in the repository itself. i'd not be averse.
ben_vulpes: i'm not critiquing your patchstacking, note.
trinque: all I'm grumpy about is having something structured to put the patches in, really, with branching
trinque: the patches page helps a bit, but for example seeing easily from where various experimental patches derive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114645 @ 0.00052851 = 60.591 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: it does the same for me on multiple browsers too
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah my browser eats too (firefox)
decimation: asciilifeform: are the maps in question contained in your 'mempool zap patch'?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside
decimation: my point is that it was made clear that anyone who signed something that fucked stuff up would suffer the negrating consequences
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 03:22:40; asciilifeform: a mistake that is owned up to, before it sinks any ships - can perhaps be accepted as a mistake, and forgiven
decimation: part of the problem with the mailing list I see is that it's difficult to reconstruct the context of patches
ben_vulpes: oh don't mind me, i'm just grumpy about a frictive process
decimation: I can't think of an off-the-shelf tool that would do everything mentioned above though
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper
☟︎ decimation: asciilifeform: yes but you could take that argument to 'can't use computer withou seeing registers'
decimation: it all depends on what is a reasonable risk to accept
trinque: git's binary db format is certainly *not* capable of being the canonical representation of the project
trinque: however, these are separate concerns
trinque: the ML is imo for releases, which should consist of bundles of signed patches
decimation: it would be nice to have a button to click: download the 'original tree' plus patches to get to this patch
trinque: dev is its own concern which might have other processes; you could say that a particular feature branch eventually gets flattened down into a release patch
trinque: decimation: I was thinking this might be a web app
decimation: trinque: a web page with links to whatever deedbot spits would be sufficient
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah, but the patches are a tree, not a timeline
ben_vulpes: i am now imagining all sorts of dumb things like patches contributed in ml 'threads'
decimation: plus automatics to package tarball and patches
ben_vulpes: heck, it'd be a huge improvement if /patches.html rendered in chronological order
decimation: yes, that's step one of 'we gotta invent version control too'
ben_vulpes: don't care, can operate anything made by humans
ben_vulpes: 'tis not the patches but the whole workflow
decimation: asciilifeform: for one thing, you would need to see the patch in context
decimation: which you can't get unless you have the whole repo stepped forward to the state of ap articular patch
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the antecedents thing for one
decimation: thus, you need the whole repo state per patch
ben_vulpes: now is when i admit that i've yet to successfully compile bitcoin with rotor
ben_vulpes: tendon-snipped by "use your noggin, eedjit" instructions
ben_vulpes: no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out
☟︎ trinque: rock climbing comes to mind
trinque: sometimes you get a shitty handhold, but you don't immediately shout "fuck this!" and let go of the wall
ben_vulpes: no, for another read through and another hack at "etc. as before" will resolve this.
trinque the fatty who hasn't exercised in 6mos... talking about rock climbing...
ben_vulpes: i'll save my "eedjit points" for when i actually cannot resolve things myself.
ben_vulpes: in the meantime, know that these few hours per day *i* do have might be put to better use than derping of dirs.
decimation: asciilifeform: mapTransactions appears to be a std::map to me
decimation: maybe I can't distinguish between boost and stl
decimation: one of the annoyances of c++ is that it is strongly typed and yet devilishly hard to tell *what* type
decimation: and there is no tool (as far as I know) that automates this task
assbot: Logged on 04-08-2015 04:03:19; asciilifeform: also ok to use live lusers
decimation: my stator with eatblocks is almost synced after a month of running
trinque: my only problem with rotor was that berkdb is a piece of shit, ignored env vars that every ball o' source should care about without its own magical flag
trinque: things like that though, that many pieces, sure it's going to snag on machines
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 04:37:34; BingoBoingo: was very slow to eat 51, but it did
trinque: what's needed imo is something which displays the history of *decisions* made, secondarily patches
ben_vulpes: aha trinque's decisionmachine emerges!
trinque: that's what I as a newb trying to wade in wanted to know
trinque: what's the social structure here, what decisions did it fart out?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah it matters what kind of pointers that mapTransactions is accepting
trinque: asciilifeform: I've read *far* more logs than that
decimation: asciilifeform: one annoyance about the logs: missing entries
ben_vulpes: mine explode at the line that fails instead of airily carrying on as though nothing happened.
decimation: calling clear() simply zeros the hashes but does not deallocate the objects
decimation: one would need to iterate through all of them and call delete
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131950 @ 0.00050986 = 67.276 BTC [-] {7}
decimation: I wonder if wrapping in auto_ptr would help
decimation: no, because it still doesn't leave scope
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release << and this raises another question, shall mod6 and i now switch our build process to involve the rotor assemblage?
ben_vulpes: shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases?
ben_vulpes: i have no answers, only this hill to watch.
ben_vulpes to have a brow soothed on a sweet busom
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72253 @ 0.00052755 = 38.1171 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <trinque> I watched a guy drink himself to death because you know, unix wasn't everything-is-a-table << What. People don't die of drink anymoar because it feels good man?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107475 @ 0.00053128 = 57.0993 BTC [+] {5}
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: the patches 'stacked on one another' is an artifact of how diff works << Ugliest artifact. MIN_RELAY_TXFEE and MINTXFEE live in main.h and init.h when patched. very volatile line numbers
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> guess what - war consists largely of precisely this kind of 'pointlessness' << It always has, at least until armor became to weighty for civilized legionaries
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log) << stator, rotor work to build a bitcoind on the "mint" ubuntu-like. Don't remember installing more dev tools after g++ for stator
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> ... << how long? my maxint_locks build appears to be chewing on this one, but i cannot actually tell. << I remember more than a minute, but only resorted to spring powered time after already waiting
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> what happened to n00bs reading logs for 6 mo ? << New challenges revert "seasoned" into n00b again
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: instructions rot, are dependent on fallible humans. i write scripts. << And then shell changes
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> shall we demand that of the pete_dushenskis and hanbots who wish to run their own hand-compiled foundation releases? << Honestly prolly. A recipe that provides ABI compatibility with 2.6.x Linux kernel is prolly fine. People can adapt to other environments.
trinque: nothing's broken; there's other shit on the line
trinque: ;;later tell felipelalli you've spoken about the idea of rating people not in the WoT; there's a great way ^
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Got to get the condemnation in before feeding the lawyer fiat for next month's hearing
BingoBoingo: Also if anyone with a bunch of power words (danielpbarron) can identify either on any relevant Bitcoin related WoT I would appreciate a heads up.
BingoBoingo: My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: I might not remember why in the morning I decided tonight would be the night to file this, but I left myself copious notes.
BingoBoingo used to believe St Cliar County authorities might read this chan, now pretty sure they don't, but figure there is a lack of better public records so their doom if they don't read.
BingoBoingo notes filings issued in venues other than a #b-a deedbot will from now and from twenty years in the past be treated as suggestions rather than orders.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.000532 = 16.5984 BTC [+]
gribble: Error: "kittenlasers" is not a valid command.
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2014 14:11:51; moiety: are you near asciilifeform, punkman? he needs a kitten, he just hasn't fully realised it yet
assbot: West Virginia Supreme Court Ruling Allows Physician Liability for Patient Addiction - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... (
http://bit.ly/1KPGj4B )
punkman: BingoBoingo, seems like a good way to stop docs prescribing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142681 @ 0.00053065 = 75.7137 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: punkman: Well hopefully they stop prescribing for their old coots threatening their licenses first
BingoBoingo contemplates migrating to a completely suckless/cat-v desktop. Pros? Any cons?
BingoBoingo: Well, maybe not entirely. I may keep cwm over dwm
assbot: The Top Ways Palcohol Abuse Could Present to the Emergency Department - Emergency Physicians Monthly ... (
http://bit.ly/1MasJfk )
BingoBoingo: punkman: They tabled that motion so not banned.
BingoBoingo: Also alcohol bound in carbohydrates? Prolly going to be a fat sack to the shit jsut to get buzzed.
punkman: I remember some discussion about how much the thing would weight
BingoBoingo: punkman: Well consider a pint bottle of cheap vodka is 40% alcohol by volume, roughly the same by mass
BingoBoingo: And now it gets topped off with sugars that will help it clear stage 2 metabolism faster
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93500 @ 0.000532 = 49.742 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Still to get a slight buzz one is talking at least an once or more of raw ETOH plus binders.
punkman: "Mark searched for powdered alcohol and it wasn't available. Over a few years, with the help of scientists around the world, Mark was able to create powdered alcohol. So he began his quest to create it. After years of research, experimentation and consultation with scientists around the world, he finally came up with powdered alcohol and called it Palcohol."
punkman: of course it's the first best palchohol
BingoBoingo: For a 110 pound teenager to reach the poisoning level and hit the ER it would still take hald a poing of the stuff, plus binders.
BingoBoingo: patents are probably all on the binders, probably all borrowed from Eli Lily
BingoBoingo wonders if Byrne/Swanson et al ever wander here and see the hate I spew for far smaller problems and wonder... What if Bingo isn't just an MP sock puppet that emerges under the influence of coke?
shinohai: You got to stop giving the butters content there BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: What if there really are a lot of #b-a people and they really are strong with hate
BingoBoingo: shinohai: I might have the rare opportunity to interview for a fiat job. If I get it I want a part of this window to get cheap coins.
shinohai: I'd like to have easy to buy coins that don't require writing my autobiography to obtain.
BingoBoingo would have to relocate bu plans to get the beapest place that only requires two months rent on top of deposit
shinohai: What sort of job is it BingoBoingo, may i ask/
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Customer service at a regional univeristy. Nothing glamorous, but given how long as it has been since I was last fiat employable.
shinohai: Don't feel bad, I haven't worked at a fiat job in 6 years now.
shinohai: Disability pension from an accident. Doc declared me unfit for duty so I'm not complaining.
shinohai: In the real world I have to use Windows
BingoBoingo entered into deedbot that condemnation for more than just "there exists" a misdemeanor charge
shinohai: I need a good virtual job, that reddit shit that pays $5 in btc is pointless.
BingoBoingo: I've already had the FBI at my front door. I'd just like to become the sort of #b-a dragon who can embrace axe time
shinohai: You had the FBI? You got more rep than me. I only had FCC come to make me take down my super yagi.
shinohai: When you are unemployed and bored, naturally you want a wifi antenna capable of covering the whole neighborhood with internet.
assbot: A Law Enforcement Encounter: If you ran a Bitcoin related service before the thing hit $100 you prolly ought to be somewhat concerned and/or prepared | Bingo Blog ... (
http://bit.ly/1T2loNL )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110000 @ 0.00052667 = 57.9337 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo: It was hot, I didn't let them in so we had a pow wow on the front lawn until they quit.
shinohai: > "the FBI agent name dropped Coindesk as a thing he reads...."
shinohai: AT leas he admits he has a problem.
BingoBoingo: But this is exactly how to handle an encounter of the Federal kind. You sweat them away and you disclose it happened.
shinohai: Musta been a slow crime month, they were looking to invent something.
BingoBoingo: The exact service they asked me about was the late BTCPak operated by DBordello. All I knew was I used it and it worked.
shinohai: I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader
shinohai: I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc.
punkman: girl's sister was at her parent's house for a night. parents were on vacation, so neighbor hears noise and calls the cops. cops show up banging on the door at 3am, she opens door and there were 3-4 submachineguns pointed at her.
shinohai: Unfortunately, policing doesn't seem to be a service you can unsubscribe from.
shinohai: You just get hit with "early termination" fees. ;)
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I used to do the same thing with some guy from bitcointalk, moneypaktrader << iirc he made it rahter clear he was shady. BTcPak had a .com site and everything I needed to believe in it at the time.
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I guess you are fortunate no electronic items were seized, etc. << I'd already met alf here. For all they know everything has the thermite.
shinohai: Yeah it appears he got sloppy or just didn't care. I bought btc from him several times despite the war between him and TradeFortress.
BingoBoingo: TradeFortress appears in retrospect to have jsut been another parasitic chicom
BingoBoingo: But MPT made it way to clear in his adverts that he did "dark web stuff" to address him as a person. That would be like buying a gram of blow from the white boy dressed as a pimp.
shinohai: I never used inputs.io though. The whole thing of not owning your keys seemed silly to me.
BingoBoingo: I spent time on his coinshat thing tying to tell n00bs to not be such n00bs. Fat lot of good it did.
BingoBoingo: Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally.
☟︎ shinohai: He definitely had a way with people. There are peeps to this day that still defend him and inputs.
BingoBoingo: People really underestimate how long I can keep my hate fresh
shinohai: Same. I hold grudges for way too long.
BingoBoingo: I was trying to save precious n00bs on his site, and he fuck it. So I hate.
shinohai: n00bs generally go for the shiny and loud
shinohai: Things that require little effort, not realizing your security comes at a price.
shinohai: But no: "The app developer *assures us it is safe, so it must be*"
BingoBoingo: It was an inflection point. I mean back then Eulora was jsut a jizzlet in MP's balls
shinohai: I had such enthusiasm for Eulora, I may take a fresh look at it when I have good drugs.
BingoBoingo: It was around then though that I realized that no amount of 1 on 1 coaching directed at unknowns could have the same impact MP had when he declared Max Keiser was a doody head.
BingoBoingo: I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: But first I gotta chop on my bitcoin first
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 426459 @ 0.00053309 = 227.341 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9585 @ 0.0005338 = 5.1165 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67950 @ 0.00052422 = 35.6207 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: youtube apparently doesn't like songs titled "Cunt Make It Up"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93750 @ 0.00052422 = 49.1456 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130050 @ 0.0005355 = 69.6418 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122250 @ 0.00053699 = 65.647 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88700 @ 0.0005288 = 46.9046 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8888 @ 0.00053995 = 4.7991 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80400 @ 0.00053211 = 42.7816 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.00051947 = 20.0515 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109200 @ 0.00051943 = 56.7218 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 336600 @ 0.00054208 = 182.4641 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96550 @ 0.00054789 = 52.8988 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120750 @ 0.00055026 = 66.4439 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shouldn't, in browser that respect "font size=small".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00055026 = 12.1057 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:10:05; BingoBoingo: Most intimidating part of current realbitcoin is where the fuck do I submit a diff from?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:12:14; ben_vulpes: from experience i know that the more difficult it is to test the software, the less likely anyone is to actually do so.
mircea_popescu: in short we gotta restructure this pancake castle less it falls over.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:15; ben_vulpes: i can just imagine the arguments
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:14:49; trinque: the barrier can be "the devs are fucking vitriolic towards laziness"
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:01; ben_vulpes: all i ever heard was "git=invitation for tard collaborators"
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225151 << this proposition is false. similarly, going to the market has "all downside and no upside" for goers : they know for a fact they'll spend money. and who knows if the stuff they get will be any good, won't spoil en route, won't get stolen before they get home or for that matter won't sprout heads and tentacles and eat them. so let's "safely" aka stupidly round th
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:19:08; decimation: plus, his original theory was that others should read and sign. now this is good in theory, but in practice has no upside and all downside
mircea_popescu: e first to 1 and the 2nd to 0, and then go 1 = 0 har har.
mircea_popescu: not how it works. it has A LOT of upside and virtually no downside. what ELSE are you going to do with that "money" if you don't go to the market ? and what ELSE are you going to do with that certain time and alleged expertise if not sign this stuff ?
mircea_popescu: there is NOTHING else. anything where you spend your time for any other purpose is either a) masturbation, ie, the xtian "building castles on sand". whether you spend time with your kid or groom your beard or fuck the woman, it's all sensata. or else b) uranium mines.
mircea_popescu: the only kingdom of heaven accessible to earthlinks is fucking reading and signing patches. don't want it, fine, but don't get fucking existential on me on your deathbed about how you wasted your life. yes, you have. shoulda not have.
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 282.95, Best ask: 282.98, Bid-ask spread: 0.03000, Last trade: 282.95, 24 hour volume: 8721.96406275, 24 hour low: 281.49, 24 hour high: 285.94, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93999 @ 0.00051937 = 48.8203 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73400 @ 0.00051937 = 38.1218 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69100 @ 0.00052279 = 36.1248 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43811 @ 0.00051885 = 22.7313 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:43:53; asciilifeform: need hard ~dates~ as well as identity.
mircea_popescu: i suspect we might be belabouring under the burdens imposed by a design problem which ultimately stems from conceptual confusion.
mircea_popescu: there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: one is USE. specifically - hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces. and ima use her as a stand-in for "intelligent and willing to work, but not able to grow a beard".
☟︎☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: the other is MANAGE. specifically - hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question.
mircea_popescu: i am perfectly aware that a fine answer to both these is "just grow a beard", which is to say, "know", knight style, just "what is going on" so that you can reboot the machine into a working state. and "know", mp style, just whop the moles are.
mircea_popescu: this is not practicable, if for no other reason then because the very earth will end up growing a beard and that'll be bad for the climate.
mircea_popescu: but in point of fact, approaching the matter conversely, a straight github repository would be just fine from the M perspective if it were doubled by duly deedbotted hashes of the plaintext. and on the other hand, irrespectively how inscrutable -r content would be just fine from a U perspective, just as long as someone can somehow convert it into a plaintext they can sit down with, follow, and never be surprised.
mircea_popescu: and returning to the issue, the good quality recipes are exactly equivalent to the "wot of patches" management technique : they allow people to ride on the shoulders of giants ~of their own choice~.
mircea_popescu: this "choose your own giant" system is definitely powerful enough to take over the world, but we still gotta figure out a way to allow such seating.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @ 0.00052304 = 18.0972 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is ultimately why foss failed. yes, it did (sort of, but originally much better than currently) allow the U seating part.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, because it failed to even conceptualize the M part, let alone address it, it remained open to attack which the us first probed (with its corporate tentacles, ms etc) and then crushed, with its agency teeth.
mircea_popescu: the reason this was possible is fortunately very easy to fix, once we understood what the hole was.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, a purely M wot will eventually fail, no matter how effectual or powerful it is (and it is, ftr, factually) on the financial side
mircea_popescu: what do you think all this "software for the people" kick is ?
mircea_popescu: stalin despised the peasant, and the usg despises the scum we despise, equally if not moreso.
mircea_popescu: but just as the saying goes, past performance is no guarantee of future success. that we readily crushed the "omai, bigger blocks" initiative, like all "initiatives" to date does not offer any guarantee we'll manage next time.
mircea_popescu: the stator saving of the continuity feeling was too narrow for my liking.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: when you have a phd assembly line, the problem is not "insufficient phds"
mircea_popescu: hanbot must be able to put into work the theoretical advances b-a produces <
mircea_popescu: and hanbot must also be able to evaluate the theoretical advances in question., inseparable.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell hanbot so is the node up ? where ? is there a recipe-from-own-eyes somewhere ? where ?
assbot: Logged on 31-07-2015 21:50:52; hanbot: ascii_field hanbot, what are the remaining issues? << rotor.sh sez:
http://thewhet.net/han/rotorfail.txt (no patches) meanwhile mod6 has made progress on RI on ubuntu so still working on "manual" stator build.
mircea_popescu: in fact, "still working" a week later is its own precious sort of failure, srsly.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the idea here is specifically that we want you to be in a position where the plane and chalkboard perspective doesn't loom.
mircea_popescu: so basically, help me out here. this should be a website which maintains a code tree and a signature tree ?
mircea_popescu: can we just design the thing, if for no other reason then for the exercise, and then see what already exists and if we like it ?
mircea_popescu: ok, gefuxexperiment. suppose you get hit in the head, and go into a coma.
mircea_popescu: suppose you come back in 2025. suppose we've been living and thriving though this time.
mircea_popescu: you go to the ML, and lo, there's 1`677`321 messages in there.
mircea_popescu: suppose you can't read at the pace new ones get added.
mircea_popescu: looky here : i am a magical witch doctor that can spot where cancer starts.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> i never objected to folks using 'git', 'mercurial', etc. - only to the notion that <
mircea_popescu: reproduction is the work of man, and reproduction has TO DATE taken over 2 million strokes. today.
mircea_popescu: if you design your thing like reproduction works, do not be surprised.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to it : in ordere to ever reach 0 kelvin, you must use at least some elements that provably reduce temperature.
mircea_popescu: atm we're veering dangerously close to the old -dev process, where they just shat magic stones.
mircea_popescu: i don't even fully understand wtf hole we're filing. tho i think i understand a lot better right now than 3 hours ago.
mircea_popescu: no, if you look at the history with open eyes it's quite clear we had this problem on back for a while now.
mircea_popescu: i swear this is a problem that's structural and should be solved, rather than just pushed against.
jurov: structural? ohmy mircea's going to ban something :D
jurov: but srs, i have asked for patches context, was sent to go scour the log for it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i bet you dollars to anything that the reason you don't get deluged in that is simply that moist folks are too interdicted by the task to even attempt, soi we don't hear about 99% of compat issues
mircea_popescu: and the last we heard of davout he was told exactly the same, and for all i know he's fallen in there never to be heard from again
assbot: Logged on 01-08-2015 18:51:53; davout: second kid arrived, private pilot license in progress 70% pretty much sums it up :-)
mircea_popescu: lemme state apropos of nothing that if you blame people for process not only are you an incredibly bad manager, but your organisation will fail, and in so doing give everyone a sigh of relief.
mircea_popescu: question : what if we ran this to look more like a wiki than a mailing list ?
punkman just realizes he forgot to post working debug_sanity revision
mircea_popescu: jurov what do you think about switching to mediawiki ?
punkman: dokuwiki is a better candidate
punkman: kako uses it on bitcoin-assets wiki as well
jurov: i use dokuwiki for some stuff, too. and it can be authed only once per seesion like assbot
mircea_popescu: in practice, it'd prolly be more practical to transition deedbot and its site to this job i think
jurov: i see it as minor change. majur obstacle is how to sanely track stuff who released, who signed
jurov: mere switch to wiki won't solve it
mircea_popescu: jurov what if the only way to add an edit is "deedbot pastebin/soandso" ?
punkman: with some metadata in diff files, we could have a script that creates a branched git repo entirely out of signed patch files
mircea_popescu: this is where im headed. have the syntax as a burden ON THE WRITER
mircea_popescu: not on the fucken reader. prolly 2/3 of our problem as is
mircea_popescu: so : you wanna contribute, use this and that markup, then rest is done by itself.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (reason is that stuff's written once, read many times)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's what i want to accomplish, as a goal : i want to be able to put up a linux system, then go curl
http://trilema.com/autobitcoin.sh | gpg -verify > autobitcoin.sh. and then run that autobitcoin.sh, which auto-follows the changes of people i have selected for this task, builds them and runs them
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and the only time i hear of any peep from the entire shebang is when one of them has gone over and i need to come in here and start with the !rate -10
mircea_popescu: and i know this can be done because it's how fucking viruses work.
☟︎ jurov: is adding "applies-to" a problem?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually a hashed diff / patch-util is a must irrerspective of anything else.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi how come it doesn't exist. must be a switch
jurov: though, with this in-band signalling we will limit ourselves to patch format
jurov: there may be ned to publish other signed artifacts
jurov: like chicken.tar.gz was
mircea_popescu: in fact, if you ask diana_coman, she recently delivered a bot for eulora client, and i had her make me diffs.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how you folks understand code otherwise, might be that i'm rusty or inept, but anyway.
jurov: diana_coman: you actually tried to apply the diffs?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12165 @ 0.00052304 = 6.3628 BTC [+]
jurov: yes. far cry from just running some .sh
diana_coman: yes jurov, I did verify it, applied it etc
diana_coman: it took me half an hour only, but yeah, I did not have to re-read the code or anything
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how do they handle the "armored"/asciifucks issue ?
jurov: by running gpg --decrypt on clearsigned text
jurov: i like it. to be able to remove files without dumping whole contents, patch should be patched, too
mircea_popescu: this all makes me feel a lot better about my life expectancy.
mircea_popescu: also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet.
☟︎ shinohai: My node isn't connected to anyone again today *sigh*
mircea_popescu: !rate diana_coman 4 Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder.
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.diana_coman.4:f03c096e55ea00704ee7e685df39127f5c24a5bfc36808528b00217764e046d2
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for diana_coman from 2 to 4 with note: Work on Eulora client, various tidbits over the years. Freelance statistician/coder.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph
shinohai: Also getting 11db cannot allocate memory errors
mircea_popescu: shinohai please run this : cat debug.log | grep -c "no message in first 60" and report result
mircea_popescu: then it's not that. prolly gotta pursue the memory issue.
shinohai: Watching tail though I see exactly what asciilifeform describes
shinohai: Where it attempts to connect but disconnects (no message in first 60 sec)
shinohai: Could be I just started this one, the one I am already running returns 28670932
shinohai: The one I just started has advertised ip
shinohai: I can see 8333 from ny1.hashbang.sh tho
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70143 @ 0.00054298 = 38.0862 BTC [+] {4}
trinque: mircea_popescu | asciilifeform and mod6 and mebbe we have trinque do the graph << I'm in; seems like yet another static site generator job
trinque: and I can modify deedbot- however it helps; he already statically generates his site, perhaps he could interpret metadata in certain deeds and take action
mircea_popescu: the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: this readily enforces the two restraings we want enforced, which is : a) wot restricted and b) signed permanently.
jurov: mircea_popescu: deedbot has currently even less friendly archives than mailman
shinohai: But not connecting to anyone at all isn't
☟︎ jurov: email was chosed because it allows for structured text + attachments. not sure how to do it with deedbot
trinque: to date I've tried to keep it simple, hence the deeds are plain textfiles linked to by a single index
trinque: no reason I can't add some html nav around that a la dpaste
jurov: yes the signed email + extra signed attachs is a kludge
jurov: there must be better system to put together few files + text that already has crypto or can be extended easily
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49485 @ 0.00053671 = 26.5591 BTC [-]
trinque: the way git handles this is that "everything's a Blob" then "some Blobs are a Tree which points to n Blobs which may be Trees or Blobs"
trinque: you could implement the data structures needed for VCS atop deedbot in a similar manner
trinque: one thing that would be needed on my end is a saner URL for a given deed; it needs to just be the hash
jurov: how would it look for user? got a .txt, a .patch , now what?
trinque: so, git does it this way: there are Blobs, which are a k/v pair of which the k is the hash of the v; blobs can be one of: Reference, Commit, Tree, Blob
jurov: (currently on has to clearsign the .txt, make detached armored sig for .patch and use non-braindamaged email client to put them together)
trinque: I probably missed one, and they also divide into further classifications, ref for example can be a tag, branch, stash
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125000 @ 0.00053491 = 66.8638 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: so if you say did the structured data in the "blobs" as sexps you could sign that text easily
trinque: and then maybe deedbot farts out additional nav controls on the html versions of these interesting deeds with a particular sexp in them
punkman: drowning in rube goldberg?
trinque: implementing a VCS isn't rocket science; it's just a matter of getting the abstractions right
punkman: I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS.
☟︎ trinque: sure, and that's another thought
trinque: wrap git or mercurial or something in hooks which enforce the constraints desired
trinque: the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons
☟︎ Adlai mumbles something about darcs
trinque: I mean they all can, but well?
Adlai: ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc
trinque: sounds worth investigating
punkman: I imagine they already have people in those companies, why make it official?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47950 @ 0.00054691 = 26.2243 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @ 0.00054189 = 23.518 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <Adlai> ootb, signed patches. deeding signed patches from darcs is less work than doing so from git etc << how so? i've never touched darcs, the question comes from ignorance.
Adlai: git signs blobs, darcs signs patches
ben_vulpes is not terrifically familiar with the git gpg integration
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109700 @ 0.00052804 = 57.926 BTC [-] {5}
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: my coracle's been wedged at 367850 since last night, even with the new db locks config. last 500 lines of debug.log:
http://dpaste.com/1XB21DH.txt , please let me know if more would be useful
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:04:31; shinohai: But not connecting to anyone at all isn't
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:03:16; mircea_popescu: the biggest headache to date for jurov/users of ml seems to have been the mailing itself. i wonder how much sense simply deedbotting messages would make.
ascii_field: if someone was wondering how the system could ever be made ~less~ n00b-friendly - this'd be it..
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:24:59; punkman: I don't want another VCS system. I just need a way to import patches in my existing VCS.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski You should see it when the DDoS abates
punkman: but I'm guessing as to patch order, branches, etc
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: the debug.log fragment you pasted does not reveal the cause of your jam
ben_vulpes: i was hoping you'd contradict my own conclusions, but alas.
ben_vulpes: let me restart the thing and grab the whole bootup log for inspection
assbot: [bitcoin-dev] "A Transaction Fee Market Exists Without a BlockSize Limit"--new research paper suggests ... (
http://bit.ly/1OQSsXP )
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, I don't recognize those names you mentioned earlier
punkman: a question that future patch submitters might have: should I patch against last release or most active branch?
ascii_field: punkman: depends on who you think is 'longest chain'
ascii_field: if wrong about this, will have to merge by hand, and there is no going around this
jurov: if a big problem, you can always rebase and rerelease
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94900 @ 0.00054409 = 51.6341 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: Default data directory /home/ec2-user/.bitcoin
ben_vulpes: dbenv.open strLogDir=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/database strErrorFile=/home/ec2-user/.bitcoin/db.log
ben_vulpes: LoadBlockIndex(): hashBestChain=00000000000000000dfc height=367850
punkman: why do you have 40k addresses?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 14:45:46; mircea_popescu: also i'd like to keep this conversation open, for all the folks whose time is not day atm yet.
danielpbarron: I also like the idea of a webpage (maybe a wiki) that organizes it all, linking to the deeded content of course
punkman: a standalone Ada wallet would be an interesting project
ascii_field: punkman: perhaps if you ask mircea_popescu nicely, he'll give you a copy
punkman: I grabbed a random Ada book last week, it was awful. need to look again
gernika: punkman - I have the Ada 95 reference manual. Seems thorough. Also you can print out a copy of the GNAT User's Guide at Kinkos - which I've also done. Haven't actually made any progress in reading it but... Seems good by looking at TOC.
mod6: ;;later tell hanbot ping me when you get a chance plz. thx!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66900 @ 0.00054662 = 36.5689 BTC [+]
punkman: gernika, my beard being short, I'm looking for something closer to "Ada for dummies"
punkman: I'm also tempted to go with Ada 2005 so I can have all teh unicodez
ascii_field: 'Data structures with Ada.', Michael B. Feldman.
ascii_field: 'Ada 95: The Lovelace Tutorial.' David A. Wheeler << probably the most n00bish
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: nope, i haven't digitized copies of these. but doesn't hurt to look around
ascii_field: anyone seriously into the subject will also want the 'standard' and 'rationale' documents.
ascii_field: actually, the best book i have so far is in ru
ascii_field: written by, of all people, fella claiming to be former lead programmer of ukraine central bank...
punkman: "Like any contract, the Ada Referebce Manual is written in very precise language, and the term ‘language lawyer’ is often used for people who are experts at interpreting the document."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41613 @ 0.00053474 = 22.2521 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83950 @ 0.00054068 = 45.3901 BTC [+]
mod6: so I've looked at deedbot.org
mod6: and I like the site, and the bitchin motif
mod6: i also like how it lines up the signatures to a specific hash horizontally
mod6: if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work:
☟︎ mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.
☟︎☟︎ trinque: mod6: heh I did the site with a nod to the foundation's
trinque: mod6: as for how deedbot- might be used, not clearly defined yet
mod6: trinque: i think it's awesome :]
mod6: will deedbot take 2 parameters, a non-signed .patch file and a detached signature and somehow colese them?
trinque: thought gpg could wad a sig and a file together in other ways than clearsign
ascii_field: even worse, imho, in every respect, than ml
punkman: you can also --armor --sign instead of clearsign
mod6: ascii_field: im simply referring to the converstaion from this morning
trinque: I gotta depart to a meeting, but to summarize I have no strong opinion that deedbot is the solution
trinque: was merely saying I am willing to put in the work *should* deedbot- be some part of it
ben_vulpes: we're just exploring the possibility space here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108450 @ 0.00053321 = 57.8266 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: i've been thinking alot about the ML issues that have been brought up lately. and lastnight I bascially came up with: Mailing list A: for all submissions testing or experimental or otherwise.. Mailing list B: for accepted, signed and released patches, in order. And jurov's /patch.html (or w/e its called) should draw from there.
trinque: danielpbarron: punkman has it; --armor --sign
mod6: danielpbarron: we're not talking about encryed docs
trinque: and then yeah decrypt on the other end
trinque: danielpbarron: yeah but you can do a sig in similar fashion
trinque: where it's a wad o... what, base64?
punkman: yeah it's a base64 blob that includes file and signature when you --sign --armor
danielpbarron: what about this: gzip the patch and clearsign that
mod6: see, we could uu encode stuff or gzip stuff or do any number of things, but then it's far less readable "as-is"
mod6: and i thought that was kinda one of the requirements.
ben_vulpes: mod6: not that my browser will do anything with the patch files but download them.
mod6: that's fine, but what if I just wanna look through the submitted patches in deedbot? i now have to do a bunch of extra gyrations to even see the text
punkman: I just mentioned it as an easy way to make deeds out of patches
danielpbarron: deedbot isn't where you go to read it all; it's where you go to verify it all
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable.
mod6: what about for unsigned new submissions?
☟︎ punkman: (or deeds out of binaries)
mod6: and there are 75`000 people and 50 submissions per day?
mod6: could be scripted i suppose... but just sayin
mod6: punkman: taking it back to the earlier premise.
mod6: are you guys following what I'm saying?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53705 @ 0.00054068 = 29.0372 BTC [+]
n6: ben_vulpes: still having an issue getting "bitcoin/src/serialize.h:963:10: error: class member cannot be redeclared" even with your callgraph.sh, what am I missing?
punkman: mod6, "unsigned new submissions" < wat
mod6: punkman: <+mod6> <+ben_vulpes> there's always /patches.html... << sure if it's readable. <+mod6> what about for unsigned new submissions?
mod6: how does anything get into /patch.html ?
ben_vulpes: i recommend spinning up an aws gentoo instance. i've given up on macos support for this project.
mod6: it first must be signed.
n6: I will try that, thanks.
ben_vulpes: n6: i understand that this is not a welcome message.
mod6: and /patch.html imho should not draw off of just any submission, only signed submissions from ben, myself and the author.
mod6: it still doesn't help me view a base64 encoded submission to the deedbot
ben_vulpes: n6: d'you plan to get into the wot as well?
n6: ben_vulpes: what more welcoming then support for free?
n6: I'm already in the wot just have to auth.
mod6: as you can see clearsign mangles the text: - --- a/rotor.sh .... - -../dist/configure
mod6: gnupg tries to escape lines that begin with a dash
jurov: mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it
mod6: jurov: to me thats an extra step... is that what we're all prepared to live with?
n6: thanks, I'm going to try and get this to work and come back
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.n6.1:e630ded4962e532d208a74d782ea9c37451b0858c31fb4280fd9f2c7ddce525e
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for n6 with note: crusty blood
jurov: mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step
mod6: i'd like to make something better, this is for sure. just whatever it is, i wanna know that it is better, not just sideways.
punkman: 30 pages in, "Ada for Software Engineers", the code examples look gnarly
jurov: turdatron needs to take bundles of patch + manifest (at least, can be any other files aside from patches)
jurov: and metadata what the patch applies on
jurov: question is, how to do this all better?
mod6: good question. not sure that i have any useful answers here at this time.
mod6: other than what I already talked about and that's not really better either.
mod6: i guess im just trying to picture in my mind how i would have to use, step by step, the proposed system every single day.
mod6: and if those proposed steps are easier/better than what we currently hvae.
jurov: maybe we end up all using a script to put the package together and sign it.. but in this case it can just output an email message to be just fed to sendmail
jurov: or if someone come up with less turdy format than MIME
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 please look at bigget picture, nto jsut to this one step << i think partly ... my general concern is my understanding of how this proposed system would work. this concern is based on the fact that when the current system was proposed, i had the oppertunity to speak out and put in my say in the matter, but I didn't understand it so I don't think I objected very much. and now look at where we are.
mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.
☟︎☟︎ ascii_field: colour me thick, but i still don't get where the 'crisis' is
jurov: so you still not understand what's this all about?
ascii_field: yes, i agree with mircea_popescu re: how patches should embed hash of antecedent file. and imho this solves whatever problem exists (that is, enables it to be solved locally by any participant, in the style he prefers)
ascii_field: while preserving the simultaneously total and minimal representation of .patch
mod6: I think I need to see a concrete example of this - end to end. I just can't picutre it mentally.
jurov: yes that one is solved. but deedbot can be used only if clearsigned and without any accompanying text
jurov: mod6 you have seen alf's patch with embedded sha512 example?
jurov: if yes we can start from there
mod6: ok and that sha512 hash is of the file /before/ the changes were made resulting in the patch?
mod6: (the unchanged original file)
mod6: ok. will diff take that and run it and ignore that first line with the hash?
jurov: no, must roll ou our won diff/patch
mod6: it does now, or it will because we must now reinvent diff/patch ?
ascii_field: what it won't do is take the hash into account when patching
ascii_field: that requires either modified 'patch' util, or wrapped in perl etc
jurov: but it's universally usable to (1) determine what version patch applies to (2) allows to remove files without listing whole contents
mod6: ok forget that im still confused for a moment because im dumb, and maybe I'll just get it in a few minutes...
ascii_field: this magic pill lets you take a bag of patches, and determine in what order they apply
mod6: how do we reconsile this with the patches already created/applied
punkman: or can start from next release
mod6: so everyone else from the beginning of time (october 24th 2014) must resign all patches?
mod6: i need to re-read all of the logs from today and have a nice long "think" about it.
hanbot: mod6: ;;later tell hanbot ping me when you get a chance plz. thx! << heya, i've got one
ben_vulpes: poor mod6 can't catch a break around here
hanbot: (am starting today's logs myself)
ascii_field: mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine
ascii_field: mod6: in the interest of maintaining the 'tree from beginning of the world' thing
ascii_field: which a robotic graphatron could then walk
mod6: i kinda like what i heard about that earlier.
mod6: i gotta think about it a bit
trinque: putting the information to construct the tree in the patches themselves has a nice decentralized nature to it
mod6: <+ascii_field> mod6: i'm willing to re-create all of mine << ok no rush here. lemme just re-read and think about all of these things for a bit.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:44:32; asciilifeform: and yes, all of this looks like pointless sweat to the folks who struggle with builds, checking sigs, missed linefeedz, etc
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:48:02; ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu will likely run me through the "oh you're complaining here have some more of what irks you" chipper
mircea_popescu: the "rocks fall, everyone dies" of ai : "write mp emulator"
shinohai: mod6: debian wen fine again: Linux debian 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u2 (2015-07-17) x86_64 GNU/Linux
shinohai: I saved the hated Ubuntu for last
ascii_field played privately with a mircea_popescu (from log linez) shannonizer
ascii_field: nah i get to see enough meat shannonizing in real life
mircea_popescu: why do you think people read reddit ? it's got shannonappeal.
ascii_field: also this is pretty easy to write and good exercise for n00bz
mod6: shinohai: excellent work! thank you. these are the first steps in a series of similar things needed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15440 @ 0.0005467 = 8.441 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:53:37; asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~
mircea_popescu: this incidentally would be a pretty great equivalent of old style personality cult bs. all os must contain picture of stalin. once he dies, computing takes day off while everyone recompiles new picture in. for everything.
BingoBoingo: Oh, the many ways and times qntra suffers the slings and arrows of DDoS. People just can't stop endorsing us this way
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you just described glibc, l0l
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah been going on for a couple hours nao
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:55:30; ben_vulpes: no! for it is a merely a derpy directory structure issue that any sophomore can figure out
mircea_popescu: in the strictly limited but ever present sense that its presence prevents its absence from being harmful.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is a fan of knuth's 'literate programming' ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119200 @ 0.0005489 = 65.4289 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: he may be argued with it, but so far without exception the "you'll come to agree, because you're smart and i'm right" controlled to date.
mircea_popescu: actually i have nfi why knuth's book isn't the basis of cs in the us.
ascii_field: (my personal favourite. mirror - original vanished)
ascii_field: my imaginary bitcoin book was to be a work of 'literate programming'
mircea_popescu briefly considers mirroring it, then notices it's actually histed on author's own domain, desists.
ascii_field: but not really. 'simple as possible, not simpler'
ascii_field: there's a fella somewhere who wrote an 'arm' version, if any aficionados of that arch are reading this
shinohai: I'm none too thrilled with my foray into arm since bitcoin
shinohai: I'm still not at a level where I can cross-compile. So I have a rather useless box atm.
shinohai: binary still doesn't run on mah pogo so I did something wrong.
shinohai: I need to see someone's build log that doesn't mind sharing, I'm sire it will click what I'm not changing.
ascii_field: i guess this is one more thing i will have to post.
shinohai: Once I do figure out this necromancy, I am sure I will kick myself for the next 2-3 years for failing to see it.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 20:06:27; mircea_popescu: much like feynman's the only way to teach undergrads really
mircea_popescu: let each culture have its own fucking buildings already. what is this globalisation.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 06:40:49; BingoBoingo: My misdemeanor case is on a one way path now. It is going to hearing seeking dismissal. If not dismissed then to trial seeking not-guilty adjudication. Then to civil court seeking damages for seriously hindering my employability.
ascii_field: btw there is a pretty fine british translation
ascii_field: and didn't mircea_popescu eat it in french l0l
mircea_popescu: i'm not proposing it be forbidden or anything. just, i give localised first choice.
mircea_popescu: i made italian slavegirl read d.c. and english slavegirl read shakespeare not the other way around. why not ? works either way after all, by definition.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 07:32:13; punkman: even though patent dates to 1974
mircea_popescu: at least it wasn't built with the ground up with getting laid in mind, so i guess there is that.
mike_c: ah, good news. fixed for me.
mike_c: html and pgp don't mix
ascii_field: gpg: Signature made Tue Aug 4 23:13:13 2015 EDT using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7
ascii_field: gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy <stas@loper-os.org>"
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 08:17:50; BingoBoingo: Between pirateat40 and TradeFartress the latter probably ran the more dangerous long con, because people believed him. Not absolutely, but generally.
mircea_popescu: like they believe in global warming and fuck knows what else.
ben_vulpes: ascii_field, mircea_popescu: didn't hanbot teach us about the dangers of html and gpg earlier?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it's one or the other it seems. either i <pre> it which makes it verify, but then linmes are fixed length. or else iu don't, which lets you read it, but ascii gets fucked.
mircea_popescu: the pill for this would be : never ever sign a cleartext with lines longer than the signature.
mike_c: or add some css for pre
trinque: could do that derpy overflow-x: auto in css at the cost of an eyesore scrollbar
trinque: mircea_popescu: that one I said, if you want a scrollbar
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62800 @ 0.00053312 = 33.4799 BTC [-]
mike_c: sheesh, put a semicolon at the end :)
trinque: mike_c: not required by the spec
mike_c: really? hm. spec is lazy.
mike_c: mircea_popescu: yeah, linewrap.
mike_c: if you throw it up with the pre I can play with it and give you good css?
trinque: there's white-space: pre-wrap in css3
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00053312 = 3.1987 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: gpg: Signature made Wed 05 Aug 2015 12:13:13 AM ART using RSA key ID 01ABFFC7
mircea_popescu: gpg: BAD signature from "Stanislav Datskovskiy <stas@loper-os.org>"
mircea_popescu: in victory radio news, the thing doesn't work anymore full stop.
trinque: mike_c | really? hm. spec is lazy. << yup, everything in the browser has the squish of trying to be maximally permissive
mike_c: i concur, still doesn't verify. overflow-x did make the scrollbar appear all the way at bottom, still sucks. white-space: pre-wrap also works, and makes the line breaks look even worse, but content is at least all visible.
mike_c: Feels like a line-ending problem. dpaste the original?
mircea_popescu: there was an issue where pre created a new line. why ? FUCK YOU FOR USING THINGS THATS WHY
mike_c: I think mpex method is perhaps best method. Just show the text and link to verifiable text blob.
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Only so many nuggets I can do when qntra under DDoS
ascii_field: mike_c, ben_vulpes: sad that text has to appear twice
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: i still don't get it, why was it necessary to shit in a bath tub ?
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Because OP was "galaxy" sized
mircea_popescu: people used to try and suck producer cock to "be a tv star"
ascii_field: iirc they make custom 'american' toilets for this
mircea_popescu: mike_c anyway ima link to deedbot just as soon as it pops.
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Installing toilet is work. Acquiring toilet costs money that could be spent on Beetus fuel.
mike_c: technology aside, that is still good news. Perhaps 2015 will be the year!
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: embrace the webshit. iframe to signed thinger!
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 08:27:03; BingoBoingo: I jsut need to find a way to build it without Nvidia cg toolkit.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ... << how aboot i buy you a vidcard ? Hard to stick in portable machine. Also problem isn't machine. Problem is cg isn't available as source or for OpenBDSM
ben_vulpes: But thoughtful Pointsman, anticipating this, has been sending laxative pills with her meals. Now her intestines whine softly, and she feels shit begin to slide down and out. He kneels with his arms up holding the rich cape. A dark turd appears out the crevice, out of the absolute darkness between her white buttocks. He spreads his knees, awkwardly, until he can feel the leather of her boots. He leans forward to surround the hot turd
ben_vulpes: with his lips, sucking on it tenderly, licking along its lower side . . . he is thinking, he’s sorry, he can’t help it, thinking of a Negro’s penis, yes he knows it abrogates part of the conditions set, but it will not be denied, the image of a brute African who will make him behave. . . . The stink of shit floods his nose, gathering him, surrounding. It is the smell of Passchendaele, of the Salient. Mixed with the mud, and the
ben_vulpes: putrefaction of corpses, it was the sovereign smell of their first meeting, and her emblem. The turd slides into his mouth, down to his gullet. He gags, but bravely clamps his teeth shut. Bread that would only have floated in porcelain waters somewhere, unseen, untasted—risen now and baked in the bitter intestinal Oven to bread we know, bread that’s light as domestic comfort, secret as death in bed . . . Spasms in his throat
ben_vulpes: continue. The pain is terrible. With his tongue he mashes shit against the roof of his mouth and begins to chew, thickly now, the only sound in the room. . . .
BingoBoingo: Turn out Eulora isn't completely Open Source yet.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: When I get time though I'll try chopping Eulora to remove the parts that depend on it and see if it works
ascii_field: aha, this is why i haven't tried it yet personally
mircea_popescu: honestly i don't even recall how or why cg is in there. mebbe chetty can shed a light
BingoBoingo: Also Crystal space uses cg at least until its next release
mircea_popescu: hey, i'd be all for a special "all open" client if you feel like doing this
BingoBoingo: If anyone else better equipped for task wants to attempt They would probably require less time.
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 Ubuntu builds fine for me w/ image provided.
shinohai: nw, vm building was a bit slow but I chalk it up to Ubuntu bloat.
ascii_field: since my broadcast was mentioned: any interest in 'rotolinux' ?
mod6: please ensure that you are running x86_64 by doing `uname -a`
assbot: [BTC-dev] Modified Portatronic build script for building statically linked 32bit bitcoind: auto.sh (v0.0.5-32) ... (
http://bit.ly/1KRsTVK )
shinohai: *32-bit and Winblowze coming soon (tm)*
mod6 slaps shinohai with a large unix manual
shinohai: I spent all day yesterday getting slapped by Windows users asking questions about gaming.
shinohai: I refuse to buy a Windows box just to play a game.
mod6: i had a neighbor once who showed me his amiga. never stopped raving about it.
mod6: this was like in '06... it still worked. *shrug*
shinohai: I still have my childhood Tandy
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 15:27:45; trinque: the requirement that signed and deeded patches be the primary representation of a contribution great appeal though, for obvious reasons
mircea_popescu: well calling it "binary" doesn't protect it you know, just confuses me. but i see what you mean.
ascii_field: 'binary' is what folks call strings of bits that will die if raped
ascii_field: hence why i insist that a turdatron must support 'binaries'
ascii_field: 'i meant what i said, and i said what i meant, a walrus is certain a hundred percent'. go, rape, but that wasn't what i signed wazzit.
mircea_popescu: this conversation is hateful of male values and triggers me.
mircea_popescu: on the face seems more of gavin-the-retard having "studies" and "Economists agree" and "industreew support" bs "if we say it then it becomes a thing because magic is magic" stuff
mircea_popescu: ascii_field could also just be gents and not rape the text.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Gavin doesn't know how mining works or is a liar.
mircea_popescu: mail yes, but i hope to see it disused eventually. gpg does not ? afaik ?
ascii_field: see the dashes in my broadcast, for example.
ascii_field: this breaks code. (not even speaking of binaries, e.g., tarball)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: regardless, can't rely on arbitrary string staying intact
jurov: maybe we and up patching gpg to scan for unmodified content from the beginning and for signature(s) from the end
jurov: no mutilation needed
ascii_field: jurov: that still leaves the other rapists
jurov: only if you insist.
jurov: my mail client (kmail) allows to turn off wordwrap and html by two clicks.
jurov: never had any problem
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:54:25; mod6: if our idea is to clearsign patches and then submit them to deedbot, i urge you all to review this email and consider why that doesn't work:
ascii_field: jurov: i use squirrelmail, and - afaik - mutilatory
mircea_popescu: ascii_field traditionally it must be observed, the problem of rapists has been resolved by controling the social group you hang out with, not by altering male anatomy.
ascii_field: i don't see why i oughta custom gpg, custom squirrelmail, custom shoelaces
jurov: you alread have custom squirrelmail
jurov: just not customized by you
ascii_field: custom as in opening up rusted shut things that i haven't adjusted for many years
mircea_popescu: you have any idea what all the tim swansons of the world gotta do wrt rusted shut things they've not adjusted for years ?
mircea_popescu: you complainin' bout squirrelmail, what's ferrocranium to say ?
ascii_field: and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely?
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.
mircea_popescu: a magical distillate whereby i can read it and programs don't rape it. binartytext.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101699 @ 0.00053762 = 54.6754 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 21:32:44; ascii_field: and also wat, i gotta recompile xorg for paste buffer to behave sanely?
ascii_field: but i promise to post a sample next time it pops up
jurov: cuz i never noticed in 10 or so years married to xfree86/xorg
ascii_field: jurov: possibly this is a bug triggered by locale
jurov: i do have locale set
jurov: ls: nie je možné pristupovať k nonex: Adresár alebo súbor neexistuje
jurov: but anyway, we're talking about code, where do you want to use 8th bit?
ascii_field: but reflecting on the fact that i don't always get 'out' of paste buffer what comes 'in'.
jurov: ok, will wait for the occassion.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14980 @ 0.00053404 = 7.9999 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:56:41; ascii_field: who thought this was a good idea, and why
ascii_field: they're all entirely readable. what am i missing ?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 19:03:14; mod6: what about for unsigned new submissions?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 208550 @ 0.00052796 = 110.1061 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the objection to ml as is was not that individual patches are unreadable.
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 13:37:54; mircea_popescu: there are very specifically TWO things we want to do here, and they are not miscible.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @ 0.00053807 = 22.5451 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: if it stays as a ml, becomes a wiki, somehow otherwise including deedbot or not changes i do not care per se
mod6: <+mircea_popescu>
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-08-2015#1225956 << maybe i've nbot given consideration enough time, but it seems to me that if something can not be made into a text file, that something can't be part of a computer program. the making/demaking necessarily can be automated. << i didn't understand that this problem could be side-stepped with gpg --decrypt
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 18:55:16; mod6: now, it might be that I'm not exactly understanding what the proceedure for submitting to deed bot would be. but if clearsigned .patch files, that can not work.
mircea_popescu: but i guess the consensus is pointing towards, ml gets restated with antecedents, trinque writes a grapher for it all ?
☟︎ jurov: so, ml can stay as is (without filename mutilation)?
ascii_field: that was my original suggestion earlier, yes
ascii_field: it would make it possible for, e.g., hanbot, to view the 'patchchain' cleanly
ascii_field: and ask meaningful questions about branches
jurov: plus it will detect (and optionally show decoded )clearsigned patches?
mircea_popescu: and ideally, have it spit out a "final version" with regressions accessible through some procedure (clicking)
ascii_field: jurov: the problem is that gpg 'escaping' is not a reversible operation
ascii_field: in that it is impossible for the machine to determine that a particular '- -' is to be transformed into a '-' or not
ascii_field: the 'escape' operation is thermodynamically lossy.
mod6: ascii_field: so does `gpg --decrypt` work for that as danielpbarron & jurov said?
jurov: well, if gpg can't undo it and it causes the patch to fail...then it fails.
jurov: sender will have to resend with detached sig
mod6: <+danielpbarron> can't you unmutilate by using gpg --decrypt ? <+jurov> mod6 just do gpg --decrypt and it undoes it
mod6: ok then we're settled.
mod6: i guess for me thats the one big thing, we can't have any mutilation of the patch files. or we'll just find ourselves banging our heads all the time.
jurov: it computes shasums of everything submitted already
mircea_popescu: i just tried this... it doesn't mutilate on encrypt/decrypt
mod6: and honestly, this is no poor reflection on deedbot. the thing is cool.
ascii_field: that's because the output of 'encrypt' is a base64 turd that isn't expected to coexist with text the way a clearsigned string is.
jurov: as with xorg buffer, i'm curious, will see if anyone submits something with valid sig that gpg fails to unescape.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00052531 = 6.724 BTC [-]
mod6: ah, encrypt/decrypt, but we want clearsign or am i misunderstanding this?
ascii_field: mod6: somebody wanted 'clearsigned patches'
jurov: mod6 decrypt on *clearsigned* file
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.
ascii_field: and i was trying to explain that this is deeply broken
jurov: will spew out the original
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 19:20:55; mod6: so before I say "yup, that's it, that's the thing that gets us to where we want to be", i want to fully understand what I'm agreeing to use.
mircea_popescu: tbh an equivalent of the callgraph / mike's wot graph but for PATCHES would not be amiss.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: to be clear, that is precisely what i had in mind when suggested the hash embed thing
mircea_popescu: have all the wot listed on the side. have all the patches AS A TREE listed next to it. have relations from wot tyo patches.
jurov: can enlist trinque or anyone's help with graphics
mircea_popescu: so basically ml as restateds + grapher in the sense of the above, svg (clickable) is really the definitive word on this ?
jurov: clickable svg *gasp* :D
ascii_field: (when i said 'graph walker' earlier today)
mircea_popescu: trinque and with a bonus "click here for this patch" and "click here for this patch + all its antecedents" spew.
ascii_field: first needs the chicken, err, the embedded antecedent indicators
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 ^ give that a long think. << i like this idea with the wot graph + source patches as a tree next to it so relations can be easily seen & drilled into.
mircea_popescu: i knew this was a tooling problem mostly. pretty much 99% of all that's needed is already here.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> already sounds like a quantum leap tbh << it is.
mircea_popescu: and opbvciously, with a checkbox "allow this antecedent"
mircea_popescu: pruning the tree of all ulteriors that depend on an unclicked patch
jurov: and "launch missiles"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00055024 = 8.6938 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 decrypt on *clearsigned* file << this indeed works. created file A.txt. copied A.txt to B.txt and subtracted some lines. created a unified diff of both. clearsigned the diff -- which is mutilated for escaped hyphens. upon `gpg --decrypt` of the clearsigned output patch file, i get the same hash as the pre-clearsigned hash file.
mod6: main difference seems to be... we would now need to enter our password every time to verify the signature as opposed to just --verify
mod6: oh actually, im wrong about that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47037 @ 0.00055025 = 25.8821 BTC [+] {5}
mod6: it doesn't ask. derp.
mod6: was gonna say. "how does that makes sense?!"
mod6: had to look that up.
mod6: ok so another question i have about the deedbot way.. would be: if we submit a patch to deedbot, how do we tie a message to that same submission? say we wanna be like "Hey, this thing is neat!" Will it need to reference anothe deedbot submission or does the patch have to come after our statment in the clearsigned message?
jurov: you can just submit both at once
jurov: or otherwise suggest to deedbot they're related
ascii_field: throw message prior to the first 'diff ....' in the ,patch
ascii_field: but for the record i think this 'cram all in one file' thing is braindamaged.
mod6: im not ciked about that either.
ascii_field: throw hashes in deedbot, sure. or even uuencodes. but to make it a canonical repository of anything else, is a microscope-hammer.
jurov: having an option to tell deedbot "present these together on one page" should suffice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57150 @ 0.00052119 = 29.786 BTC [-] {4}
mod6: but then you could just have detached sigs?
mod6: that would be the way to do it as I said earlier. but not sure if that's really feasable.
ascii_field: there is not a 1:1 mapping between sigs & patches
mod6: well and probably error prone if he/she has to cut the upper text out just to get down to "bare" patch to re-clearsign and submit to deedbot... could miss line, something bad.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.0005516 = 22.1743 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_field: 'Welcome to regulated America, where once fabulous consumer inventions like refrigerators, freezers, washing machines, and dishwashers have been reduced to a barely functioning state. The reasons are always the same: 1) phosphorous-free detergent, 2) a fetish with saving water, 3) weaker motors that use less electricity, 4) more tepid water due to low default settings on hot water heaters, and 5) reduced water pressure in
☟︎ ascii_field: 'If the regulators really do get their way, functioning dishwashers could become like high-flow toilets: contraband to be snuck across borders and sold at a high black market prices.'
jurov: same in eu. can't find washmachine with <2 hour cycle anymore cuz "saves water and electricity"
ascii_field: i can confirm, ~proper~ toilets have been rare and collectible in usaschwitz, since '90s
ascii_field: 'In my village in Zimbabwe, surrounded by wildlife conservation areas, no lion has ever been beloved, or granted an affectionate nickname. They are objects of terror.'
assbot: Peripateticists, kinda, except girls not boys, bare cunt instead of toga and walking around the house not the garden, but otherwise exactly the same. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1Iqucbd )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27400 @ 0.0005186 = 14.2096 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102129 @ 0.00054998 = 56.1689 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146871 @ 0.00055312 = 81.2373 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7971 @ 0.00051829 = 4.1313 BTC [-]
Adlai: goes well with music
mircea_popescu: jurov ie, like being in procust's bed, crushed by a giant to fit.
assbot: Logged on 04-08-2015 21:50:14; ascii_field: danielpbarron: he was a relatively early 'computer sucks and must be rebuilt' person. sadly, i've no idea what he is up to these days.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform [...] microhammer << was just an early suggestion, no one's married to it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70018 @ 0.00053621 = 37.5444 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22282 @ 0.00053924 = 12.0153 BTC [+]
shinohai: I still have 0 connections on both my nodes
trinque: needs something akin to connect but with multiple, right?
shinohai: I was about to say ... ive been using -connect only for weeks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164100 @ 0.00055226 = 90.6259 BTC [+] {8}
trinque: is this just stupid behavior entirely re: connect?
trinque: should be separate concerns entirely