tmsr - Search: sybil

mp_en_viaje: so don't you try solving the grave problem of the user being entirely surrounded by a sybil inside the secure code. let him worry about that outside the box.

jfw: er I mean, the absolute view point is interesting, which I guess is that ...the sybil case is not interesting?

mp_en_viaje: yes, "if one is surrounded by a sybil". do you know the story of the man who made a submarine so strong, it'd have withstood even falling off a cliff ?

jfw: adds tamper resistance, unless one is surrounded by a sybil. This is interesting though, re absolute view

mod6: Your notion is correct on the former, 'more exposed to potentially misbehaving or sybil peers'. As to the latter, I suspect you will be connected simply more prb nodes. It is possible that you'll also find, in a 'subgraph', nodes that are playing nicely, but seems less likely.

jfw: mod6: my notion of what that action entails, and please correct if I'm missing a major aspect, is that I'm more exposed to potentially misbehaving or sybil peers, but also potentially better connected and more likely to bridge otherwise partitioned subgraphs of the network.

mircea_popescu: that is, to reconstruct some kind of sybil cake. which is exactly the "ourdemocracy science" with all tis hatefax and toxictruths and whatnot. because once you give up the proper wot process for some mechanized ersatz you find yourself again in the primordial mist, unable to guess where the landmines are.

lobbes: Interesting to see the bits he gets 'right' , such as no anonymity, but then to see him see him turn around and say essentially "horde of sybils are okay, as long as each sybil pays subscription fee of $100"

asciilifeform: folx showing symptoms of sybilism, will be shoved into sybil pen.

mircea_popescu: and generally, always expose the more convenient edge of the wot to the sybil. "you" can buy stuff from there and "you" can pick it up here and so on and so forth.

mircea_popescu: looky here, and read this thrice and understand it thoroughly : the "no identity outside of wot" / "all sybil heads are sybil heads" works EVERYWHERE, not just where you realise it does. the circumstance that the sybil is talking to ~you~ does not get to a) corroborate with the fact that you have a strong idea of the self and therefore b) result in any practical effect. as far as they are concerned, we're all exactly equal an

trinque: asciilifeform: works entirely within the system, new sybil just never gets his +1, or if did, gets -10 later

asciilifeform: e.g. 'try and sybil your way around the banhammer, be banished with 0refund'

a111: Logged on 2016-11-15 19:06 asciilifeform: Framedragger: note that this was the laughable piece, 'majority votes', i had nfi how to cut the knot of sybil etc.

a111: Logged on 2017-11-18 00:19 shinohai: http://archive.is/07Oas <<< I guess no use going thru the trouble of shutting down the sybil nodes or w/e

shinohai: http://archive.is/07Oas <<< I guess no use going thru the trouble of shutting down the sybil nodes or w/e ☟︎

ben_vulpes: and if it's not important enough to push a valid key through the cracks of the sybil wall, i guess it wasn't actually important enough.

mircea_popescu: (amusingly, this node-sybil-pie entirely exists BECAUSE IT CAN exist. think in GT terms : at t1 it doesn't exist. at t2, player 1 figures out it could exist, whether it can or not, and takes defensive meansures. at t3, some bug in player1's implementation is exploited (consciously or accidentally) and now... it DOES exist.)

a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 18:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, to continue upstream : education is an effort to resolve the unknowledge-sybil problem. you take in the girl and know full well what she doesn't know, whip her, fuck her, not necessarily in this order, until she gets to the place where you don't know what she doesn't know, at which point she's an adult slave.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you. ☟︎☟︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: (as an aside, i don't expect any of these fucktards, gilmore, bernstein, whatever, even remotely give enough of a shit about anything not tittlating their anal orifices, BUT! it'd help me fucking immensely if they actually were in, because of sybil considerations. but they dun wanna, becausew why should the world not stink.)

Framedragger: so there's no way to DoS peer B with "hi plox to send me an auth string, i'm totally legit non sybil node"

asciilifeform: 'a discovered peer' == 'a sybil'

a111: Logged on 2017-04-27 22:46 phf: it is not in fact phf who posted this nonsense but an adversary, a sybil attack is in progress!

phf: it is not in fact phf who posted this nonsense but an adversary, a sybil attack is in progress! ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'RSK miners cannot double-spend, as the Federation provides the checkpointing service, and every Federation member node is highly connected to the RSK network to prevent Sybil attacks. The Federation will use the checkpointing power to prevent reorganizations of high depth which are not related to a protocol fault. The Federation cannot double-spend, as a Federation member is not allowed to checkpoint two blocks having conflicting t

asciilifeform: almost like these folx never heard of sybil etc.

a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 20:03 asciilifeform: if you let ANYONE, under ANY circumstances, appropriate some of the value of a tx without the consent of its original author, you create a sybil-feeder, where the last hop (i.e. the miner) can simply eat 100% by simulating the passage of the tx through 1,000,001 hops of fictional nodes.

asciilifeform: if you let ANYONE, under ANY circumstances, appropriate some of the value of a tx without the consent of its original author, you create a sybil-feeder, where the last hop (i.e. the miner) can simply eat 100% by simulating the passage of the tx through 1,000,001 hops of fictional nodes. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2016-12-29 23:20 asciilifeform: type2 ( pete_dushenski's ) is the garden variety shitflood. which is sometimes solved by ip ban, but only in the case of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant', i.e. idiot prb nodes wildly spamming crapolade, and not in the 'bullet with your name on it' case, where somebody actually has a sybil constellation drowning your trb node in liquishit, with no SINGLE ip misbehaving in any way

asciilifeform: 'The paper propose a new proof-of-work mechanism that improves decentralization and reduces the risk of 51% attack without increasing the risk of Sybil attack. This new mechanism introduces a series of principles such as Career open to all talents, without distinction of birth, Distribution according to labor and All Men are created equal.'

asciilifeform: Framedragger: 'sybil' in that thread meant something rather nonstandard

Framedragger: well, you mentioned sybil. this may help avoid sybil url submission spam. granted, the latter may be avoided by "only people currently voiced / currently in l2 / l1" filter, etc..

Framedragger: ben_vulpes: suresure, i agree that it'd be fine, but i expect someone could concoct a "sybil account keeps draining pennies" argument.. but eh. yeah.

asciilifeform: Framedragger: mircea_popescu had a more recent discussion re 'sybil constellations'

asciilifeform: type2 ( pete_dushenski's ) is the garden variety shitflood. which is sometimes solved by ip ban, but only in the case of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant', i.e. idiot prb nodes wildly spamming crapolade, and not in the 'bullet with your name on it' case, where somebody actually has a sybil constellation drowning your trb node in liquishit, with no SINGLE ip misbehaving in any way ☟︎

asciilifeform: Framedragger: note that this was the laughable piece, 'majority votes', i had nfi how to cut the knot of sybil etc. ☟︎

Framedragger: iirc there *was* a buncha keys on silk road v1. but, not ruling out key re-use / sybil identities.

trinque: it all flows directly from that they have the sybil-tron, and the fakerng, and... and...

asciilifeform: reader is not expected to have ever heard of sybil, etc, or so much as given the matter five seconds of thought.

mircea_popescu: at least on appearances. but now model what someone trying to sybil would be doing.

asciilifeform: it is general in the sense where, if you include it, 'sybil' is no longer meaningful concept

a111: Logged on 2016-08-26 16:03 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-26#1529656 << this is correct ; there's no general solution to sybil problem ; this is not unrelated to http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529170

phf: come to think of it sybil is not the right word in this case, on application level there's no psuedonymity and you only talk to people in wot. on transport level an attacker can construct a valid looking (struct layout wise) pgp packet, which in my naive spec implementation is handed over to gnupg. now you have a bunch of potential attack vectors here, but assuming there's no memory attacks in gnupg, race conditions in gpgme,

asciilifeform: with sufficient % of sybil, enemy can reconstruct history

mircea_popescu: your idea with (indepoendent miners very threadbare + sybil) is much higher latent heat than the (miner cartel) situation.

mircea_popescu: you understgand this "? yes sybil problems will be incredible once that goes away

asciilifeform: sybil has the upper hand over miners

asciilifeform: argument here is - if miners do not ~collectively~ countenance the sybil, it cannot operate ?

asciilifeform: whether or not you credit the chinese miners, the sybil net, or the devil, whoever,

asciilifeform: there is a network, consisting, apparently, mostly of sybil.

asciilifeform: the number is simply to ensure that folks connecting at random, in public toilets, end up with a thick layer of sybil between them and the statistically probable genuine non-gangrenous flesh somewhere far away.

asciilifeform: sybil attacks work not because there are many sybils, but because they ~act in concert~

ben_vulpes: near as i can tell, mircea_popescu went to pop a mining cartel and only caught a sybil.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform even so, i don't think banning sybil reduces to "unable to talk to white devils".

asciilifeform: sybil octopus can get between victim and miners as a whole. and yes, this is enabled by the concentration of hash power in a shithole kingdom.

asciilifeform: at any rate i am broadly unconvinced that network sybil octopus needs any kind of miners other than a small share of standard hashrate.

assbot: Logged on 07-03-2016 23:07:12; mircea_popescu: but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly.

davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425817 <<< the "sybil testing" part is not documented in the qntra piece or did I miss it? ☝︎

mircea_popescu: but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly. ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://proofofindividuality.tk << 'anti-sybil token' >> link leads to linkfarm/malware.

adlai: "can read source and figure out wtf it does and why" is almost as sybil-resistent as PoW

adlai: testingthisstuff: also fyi, even the tor developers admit to the ease (~$1M) with which a large-scale sybil attack can be mounted against the network

thestringpuller: mats: in my perspective it seems the meatwot is more easily susceptible sybil attacks than one enforced with the principle governing gpg contracts

asciilifeform: if it isn't, it is rather like merely an expensive sort of 'sybil'

mats: 'psycho pass' is about a japan where devices that can measure mental health are on every street corner, managed by an entity known as the 'sybil system' and enforced by public security. the focus of the story is a public security officer

mircea_popescu: also hanbot has it : idempotence IS fundamental to bitcoin. but unlike shit like sybil attack, or pgp, which were scarcely used or thought about before we came around,

mircea_popescu: 2. sybil. the purpose is irrelevant. all mitm is a degenberate case of sybil.

asciilifeform: (the purpose of a sybil is not necessarily to deceive the victim into transacting with a known party through it)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sybil and mitm are entirely orthogonal concepts

mike_c: I'm sticking by it. Once you know what a sybil attack is, this is a good venue to learn why what you know isn't quite right.

mike_c: Adlai: my point wasn't that we're a bunch of geniuses, more that there are better venues to learn something in depth like what is a sybil attack.

asciilifeform: 'd' - 'what is meant by a sybil attack?'

livegnik: You could put it that way, yes. But it can visualize sybil swarms by showing the few 'real IDs' linking to it.

livegnik: asciilifeform: Mostly a whitelist. Whitelisting solves the Sybil. The thing is, whitelisting hasn't been very user-friendly up till now, without the security trade-off.

asciilifeform: livegnik: what is involved in a 'sybil-proof' wot for machines ?

livegnik: It's a protocol for identity management for both humans, entities, and machines. It gives the ability to create Sybil-proof WoTs (to the extent that the least trustworthy node added, decides the strength of your security), for almost anything.

mike_c: mircea_popescu: maybe not. could be a much dumber reason. "It's all one node just with 600 addresses. This is what happens when you fucking pay people to sybil attack the network."

Adlai: dev behind popular open-source-closed-dev spv wallet is also behind a sybil attack to correlate transactions with jurisdictions... so that's why local trader is so cheap!

asciilifeform: is it just me or is it hilariously funny that folks working with (or pretending to, whatever) with bitcoin - the only thing that ever solved 'sybil problem' -for the one case for which it is solvable- -- is spewing this kind of nonsense ?

mircea_popescu: "The Bitcoin protocol, when implemented correctly, has a degree of sybil resistance when it comes to partitioning and double-spend risk as an attacker must get _all_ your connections for those attacks, but this kind of activity can really violate user privacy since privacy attacks don't need to get all your connections; especially for SPV nodes which liberally broadcast their wallet addresses to nodes that they're usin