▁▁▁▁▁⏐︎▁▁ 9767
mircea_popescu: and in today's ancient trilemas : http://trilema.com/2012/martipan/
mircea_popescu: who can afford to pound a pound of almond seeds into fine dust by hand ? teh sultan of swing, and him only!
shinohai loves fucking marzipan
mircea_popescu: oya
mircea_popescu: eating it also good.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4290.0, vol: 4577.66314672 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4298.9, vol: 12288.98927052 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4311.158, vol: 2503.54137687 | Volume-weighted last average: 4298.38101749
mircea_popescu: and in other "home office is best office" guides, http://68.media.tumblr.com/ac21e5bf41f4ee43aef29dc046ad9ec2/tumblr_nyj516xJT41uco4pdo1_500.gif
BingoBoingo: "Big Ron had Sensei Steve and I out to watch the big fight, in which we all cheered for the white man in the ring—Floyd Mayweather." >> http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8775
mircea_popescu: heh
BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/haft/2/ http://oglaf.com/scroll-work/
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo aha. seems rather exactly the pantsuit next play.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, apparently the Orchard has pushed Stormfront offline now.
mircea_popescu: which one was stormfront again ?
danielpbarron: white nationalist website kicked off tor, should be someone incoming to channel re: this
mircea_popescu: lol wait what, "kicked off tor" ? isn't that what tor's for ?
danielpbarron: apparently tor is only for hiding pedophiles
mircea_popescu: anyway, they should write to google. iirc they are now hosting kerbs on their "totally not for bloggers" shared server, what's another one.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron such lulz. "oh, it's totally not a honeypot". really ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> which one was stormfront again ? << The forum for which the Weev Daily Stormer was named, but no relation ☟︎
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Wait, more kicking off of things?
danielpbarron: i don't wanna spoil the surprise just yet. let's see if she shows up
mircea_popescu: wait, what ?
BingoBoingo: A SHE!
mircea_popescu looks through the list of forgotten boxen
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 482307 | Current Difficulty: 8.88171856257E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 483839 | Next Difficulty In: 1532 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F56C06F50CA642FFEBE26155AE8715AA520DB5DA7D3F85021F43866AA14E1F69 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1021...0923 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s445.deinprovider.de. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F56C06F50CA642FFEBE26155AE8715AA520DB5DA7D3F85021F43866AA14E1F69 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1220...4639 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s445.deinprovider.de. DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C376A7AC72465727A5D5ECC12B096A812963EAEDD5896FD486D55178BA749249 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1367...8667 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C376A7AC72465727A5D5ECC12B096A812963EAEDD5896FD486D55178BA749249 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...9353 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
mircea_popescu: neinprovider
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: dude scrollwork
ben_vulpes: we're dying over here
ben_vulpes: $girl in further stitches over panel seven of haft
ben_vulpes: "this woman is a treasure"
mircea_popescu: oglaf author ? totally.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of satisfied adult women, http://68.media.tumblr.com/d8e4b46963d6b6d59cbd75901616b80c/tumblr_nmrks14w1M1revz5to1_500.gif
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703794 << i thought it was named for the obvious, der sturmer ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 02:25 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> which one was stormfront again ? << The forum for which the Weev Daily Stormer was named, but no relation
shinohai: https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/901920245446832129
shinohai: lulzy
asciilifeform: shinohai: 'What's the latest on Mircea? I've not heard about him in a while.' 'I think his followers actually kind of excommunicated him after he lost their bitcoins. I don't pay much attention to them though.' << didjaknow ! ☟︎
shinohai: Some people shouldn't be allowed to think.
asciilifeform: i dun see any thinking in there
asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Gy3K7/?raw=true
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: ack
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/n1IbD >> 'The training of today’s SWOs was further eroded by the Pentagon’s focus on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Before 2010, many Navy officers who were expected to learn on the job were not on ships at all. During critical times in their professional development, they were taken away from their ships and sent to serve as individual augmentees with soldiers and Marines fighting in land-bas
asciilifeform: ed operations.'
BingoBoingo: Now that's Qntra worthy
asciilifeform: in other noose, https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity17/sec17-tang.pdf >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Gw8Sr/?raw=true << ever wonder what 'power management' controller is actually for ? ( answer: fault injection, so nsa can help your, e.g., chineseremaindertheorem-using rsatron, shit out privkey ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: !!up kanzure
deedbot: kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
kanzure: greetings
kanzure: where precisely do i go to pitch mircea on eugenics 2.0?
asciilifeform: here. when he wakes up.
kanzure: alright well that's lame. ☟︎
asciilifeform: or you can speak now and he'll read the logz and maybe answer.
kanzure: i have begun to master the art of sleeptyping so sleep is no longer an inconvenience
asciilifeform: kanzure: logs, incidentally, live at http://btcbase.org/log and elsewhere.
kanzure: yeah maybe not appropriate for public logs at the moment
asciilifeform: i'll also warn that neither mp nor most of the folks here, engage in 'private' conversation with folx they do not know.
kanzure: should i be hurt that he doesn't know me?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/08/exposed-us-navy-officer-corps-not-very-good-at-boating/ << Qntra - Exposed: US Navy Officer Corps Not Very Good At Boating
asciilifeform: i can't speak for him, but i only very vaguely know you, kanzure , through n-th degree meatspace .
BingoBoingo: kanzure: What's the worst that happens if you pitch in a public log?
kanzure: basically i sat down and tried to figure out what is the most controversial idea i could possibly construct ☟︎
kanzure: i am proposing an aggressive timeline like 100 designer baby genomes by 2030 and then 1 million designer babies by 2045
kanzure: here's some background on plausible modifications that are aleady well known http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
kanzure: so i guess to answer your question, ethnic cleansings?
asciilifeform: re the linked piece, i'm not satisfied with the direction of the causal arrow having been established ☟︎
kanzure: well in many cases the mutations listed on that page have not been documented (on that page) as impacting positively or negatively. so the document should not be considered a definitive lookup table. ☟︎
kanzure: and also the effect size is minimal in many cases.
asciilifeform: picture if some martian got a hold of a number of pc and gave them same treatment as the geneticists : 'mov rar, [ecx + ebx] at 0x40000000 associated with 0.5% increased memory allocator performance !!1111'
asciilifeform: *rax
asciilifeform: but somehow same thing does not appear ridiculous to literate folx, when done in meat ??
kanzure: yes a lot of biology is stupid i'm not sure what your concern is
asciilifeform: concern is that literally the entire document linked earlier, is ~content-free
BingoBoingo: lol, this is their take on a common mutation: "The polymorphisms rs1800497 and rs2283265 (also known as the Taq1a polymorphism) near the dopamine receptor 2 (DRD2) gene are associated with improvements during working memory training. (rs1800497(C;C) better avoidance of errors). However this polymorphism comes with serious tradeoffs: antisocial, borderline, dissocial, and avoidant personality disorders, addictive and impulsive behaviors s
BingoBoingo: uch as binge eating, pathological gambling, and drug abuse. (more)"
asciilifeform: and that we know jack shit re the effects of the loci UNTIL SOMEBODY TOGGLES'EM AT WILL ☟︎
asciilifeform: in man
kanzure: yes well online interactive toggling is also a possible thing
asciilifeform: lolwat
kanzure: anyway, you don't need to focus merely on small mutations, you can also voluntarily delete chunks of chromosomes or whatever ☟︎
kanzure: optogenetics is one way of interactive toggle (usuaully using neuronal receptors but there are other techniques such as light-sensitive cas9/recombinases/etc)
asciilifeform: this happens ordinarily, neh
asciilifeform: so far the volume of ~interesting~ result with meaningful pvalue, is -- afaik -- 0
asciilifeform: which suggests that ~whole field consisted of 1 part 1980s tech ( largely working on ecoli ) to 99 parts hypolade.
kanzure: wwc1 t/t carriers tend have >19% improvement in working memory performance
asciilifeform: people over 2 metres tall, same
asciilifeform: but where is the causative link ?
kanzure: also, i am part of hgp-write (basically human genome project 2.0) one of our projects is removing 7 codons from the genome to render human biology impervious to all existing viruses. ☟︎
kanzure: where's your "causual link" now
kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/ultra-safe-cell-line/
kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/synthesizing-a-prototrophic-human-genome/
kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/recoding-ecoli-to-57-codons/
asciilifeform: this was worked as ancient sf plot : breed 'nonvirusable' folx, then plaguenuke everybody else
asciilifeform: i suspect -- difficult to reduce to practice.
kanzure: well there's some ecoli results for you.
asciilifeform: very, very easy, to make $tech work on... paper.
kanzure: ecoli is an actual biology
kanzure: thanks for playing
asciilifeform: even ecoli is picky
BingoBoingo suggests sticking to the basics. P53 overexpression, Myostatin inhibition, and let the dice go on everything else ☟︎
asciilifeform: kanzure: i and ~50 other folx, lost jobs, because it proved ~impossible to persistently force $valuableprotein secretion in ecoli ☟︎
asciilifeform: for our particular value of $protein
kanzure: pore secretion?
asciilifeform: kanzure: objective was to economically make (by the kg) a (modified) butyrylcholinesterase ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( this is in the l0gz somewhere, ancient thread , if you give a damn )
kanzure: i read all logs everywhere. it's sort of my thing.
asciilifeform: at any rate, if kanzure knows how to make, e.g., transgenic muscle men, or thicker bone, etc. he should not settle for small change, go, make
asciilifeform: the money bathtubs await
asciilifeform: and learn chinese.
kanzure: well i was thinking about just going for the heart of the whole thing (designer genomes/eugenics) and go after those bathtubs
asciilifeform: 1st step, as i understand : chinese.
kanzure: jihan has been quite friendly so far ☟︎
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/ << Trilema - The Day of Failure Trilemma
asciilifeform: i have nfi who is jihan
kanzure: just some guy it doesn't matter
asciilifeform: oh here he is!
shinohai: asciilifeform: He is one of Roger Ver's Chinese muppets
mircea_popescu: i got a fucking headache.
mircea_popescu: wassup
kanzure: i don't know any hereditary magic tricks to eliminate headaches but that should be doable.
kanzure: first you have to kill everyone who has ever had a headache...
mircea_popescu: don't be ridiculous, it's cocktail flu.
mircea_popescu: well, unless i am actually coming down with something.
shinohai recommends 2 excederin and a bottle or 3 of Gatorade ....
mircea_popescu: the problem with hanging out with sluts is well known to soccer moms. kids are fine, you're fucking dead.
mircea_popescu: shinohai if i lived in a jivilized country with jews in it i'd just have some cabbage juice. sadly, no cellars here. too hot, too wet.
shinohai: "Cabbage Jewz"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: large peltier with drain hose ~cured my 'too hot, too wet'
asciilifeform: might work foryou also.
mircea_popescu: i guess. there's an inch of soil and under that basalt, you understand. there's a reason jungle soil is poor -- all of it gets washed into ocean.
mircea_popescu: and in other shit i will now randombly whine about : i bought these coasters, right ? cuz i was in some random mall picking up some chick and we went in an "upscale" libreria and well, i dunno, i impulse bought some fucking coasters. she thought they were expensive.
asciilifeform: they were golden, or wat
mircea_popescu: here's the problems with "expensive, upscale" coasters : they're not a square of cut up cork, like you'd expect if they were you know, uncivilised, unglamorous, un-internet-of-things orcfare. no. they're a thin strip of cork glued to cardboard with some shiny drawings on top. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: cuz i TOTALLY need pretty colorful pictures on my fucking coasters, lest my brain turns off or some shit.
asciilifeform actually has some gold coasters. ( they're dud mitsui cd-r, gold, yes ! )
mircea_popescu: now : the sheen on the top adheres to wet glasses, which in this climate is ALL of them. so you get floating coasters.
mircea_popescu: AND the dumbass cardboard gets destroyed by water.
kanzure: about to get unvoiced i think. could someone offer mircea_popescu a link to the right place in the logs for the eugenics war.
asciilifeform: kanzure: you got 10min or so, why not let's have it ?
asciilifeform: what've you got ?
kanzure: oh my god i am bad at math
mircea_popescu: THIS is what your money's fucking buying omfg, "i live in the country so i can spend 80k a year on renting a cardboard box and have nice coasters which are worse than a fucking pile of dried goat shit"
mircea_popescu: kanzure i read the logs anyway.
kanzure: wait my math is fine
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: !!up kanzure
deedbot: kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
kanzure: fuckers
asciilifeform: tempus fugit..
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703817 << ahaha what is this dumb shit ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 16:16 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'What's the latest on Mircea? I've not heard about him in a while.' 'I think his followers actually kind of excommunicated him after he lost their bitcoins. I don't pay much attention to them though.' << didjaknow !
asciilifeform: kanzure: mike w promised myostatin inhibitor to me in 2007 !!1111 where is it ?! ☟︎
mircea_popescu: really, "i wonder what happened to the clouds, i've not been out of basement for a decade, poor clouds, they must be faring poorly"
kanzure: asciilifeform: i have someone else working on a very similar project these days. it's in progress.
kanzure: asciilifeform: turns out you have to actually pay people to do things
asciilifeform: evidently that ain't enough, or, e.g., software would work
asciilifeform: ( picture if programmers were only paid for ~working~ soft... )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703832 << what's so lame about it ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:12 kanzure: alright well that's lame.
kanzure: lame about sleep?
kanzure: it's hell of a way to spend one's life, that's all.
mircea_popescu: oh, that's what you meant.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703842 << why ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:16 kanzure: basically i sat down and tried to figure out what is the most controversial idea i could possibly construct
kanzure: one of the genetic changes i have proposed is something that seems to cause 4-5 hours/night to be sufficient rest
kanzure: mircea_popescu: well actually the origin of the idea is that i am interested in genome engineering and human enhancement technology. but i also recognize that controversy is necessary to bring attention and funding.
mircea_popescu: ah come on, designer baby purse, seriously ?
asciilifeform: kanzure: realize that your entire corpus of 'knowledge' is of approx same grade as 'get married, grow taller!'
mircea_popescu: i take it you don't know you never read http://trilema.com/2016/i-am-firmly-against-universal-franchise/ ? and don't know you should have read it ? and so on ?
kanzure: mircea_popescu: correct. i've looked at it just now but i don't see how it changes anything. shouldn't you prefer people to be hard workers, even if they can't own property?
mircea_popescu: kanzure the model whereby you "attract funding" for "your idea" is fundamentally broken. i don't mean a little broken, i mean fundamentally broken -- it makes it impossible to actually have an idea, which is why your "attempt to find the most controversial conceivable notion" ended up with "what bit of fashionable nonsense could i waste my life with in the optimisitc but ultimately baseless hope it'll be worthy my or anyone's
mircea_popescu: time".
mircea_popescu: kanzure read the whole thing.
mircea_popescu: it gets to a ~functioning~ model for designer babies.
kanzure: what if i claim that i'm illiterate
mircea_popescu: no, i get it, you want to single play the WoWoW.
kanzure: i'm looking i'm looking.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> don't be ridiculous, it's cocktail flu. << The doctor prescribes Bloody Mary x2
kanzure: mircea_popescu: i disagree with your evaluation of whether it's a waste of time, or that it is fashionable in the least. i simply recognize the value of controversy.
kanzure: and the controversy stuff is a tacky add-on, i'll admit.
mircea_popescu: aite.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you ever had the cabbage juice btw ?
kanzure: i haven't internalized your post completely so i'm not sure what you are expecting me to extract from it.
mircea_popescu: kanzure do you understand how current "genetic engineering" works ? specifically why it's done to corn not sheep ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the way you make this is that in a dry and cold cellar you emplace a tun, 100 liters say. then fill it with whole cabbages. then add brine and some spices. then let it sit a few months.
mircea_popescu: !~google "moare de varza"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Explozie de SANATATE in zeama de varza . Bolile care pot fi tratate ...: <http://www.aktual24.ro/explozie-de-sanatate-in-zeama-de-varza-bolile-care-pot-fi-tratate-usor-cu-moare/>; Zeama de varză murată - 3 motive să o bei - CSID: <http://www.csid.ro/diet-sport/noutati-dieta-si-sport/zeama-de-varza-murata-3-motive-sa-o-bei-11877690/>; Varza murată şi beneficiile ei uimitoare pentru organism - (1 more message)
kanzure: i understand many aspects of genetic engineering. i also understand why mammalian projects are more complex.
mircea_popescu: kanzure as to the question asked specifically.
kanzure: it's done to many mammals i'm not sure about sheep specifically. why would sheep matter?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Never had the cabbage juice. Twas a big fan of curing hangovers with moar booze
mircea_popescu: sigh. alright, here, let me give you a primer on genetics as a tehcnological consideration, so you can impress the "what happened to mp" ass-up-buttholes with your transcendental scholarship.
kanzure: they actually know nothing about you
kanzure: it's sort of weird. i asked and their answer was "he's angry". i am pretty sure they are idiots.
mircea_popescu: so, originally genetic experiments were carried out on mammals, hence dolly the cloned sheep. it rapidly became obvious that the only available tech ("throw shit at wall, maybe something sticks") is a terrible fit for the complexity of mammals, and there's absolutely no hope of obtaining iondustrially usable results this generation there.
kanzure: yes there are many tools that are necessary to make progress, such as order-of-magnitude cheaper dna assembly and synthesis technologies.
mircea_popescu: so effort was instead moved to plants, which are three degrees of magnitude simpler. there, the approach works, you blast a square mile worth of soy with random nonsense and then select the few plants still standing. which is how the whole "glycosate-resistent" craze started : it's not DESIGNER plants.
kanzure: my technique of favor at the moment is inkjet-based synthesis, a writeup is here but it's a well-known technique http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/
kanzure: yes i am aware of mutagenesis and selection techniques
mircea_popescu: it's plants which have been selected for the only hopefully-economically-useful trait available. which is already a very distant push.
kanzure: my preferences regarding selective breeding are documented here with some project proposals http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/2017-02-03-beacon.pdf
mircea_popescu: well so if you're familiar why don't you answer when asked.
kanzure: i have no idea how to speak with you
mircea_popescu: this is a problem.
kanzure: many would consider the illiteracy to be the primary problem
mircea_popescu: back on topic : you know what uncanny valley is ?
kanzure: yea. the thing where people care what looks real.
mircea_popescu: the thing where getting a "designer baby" be 99.9999% identical to an actual baby makes it less tolerable than a 99% or 80% similar result ; and not a little less tolerable, EXTREMELY intolerable.
mircea_popescu: in other words : you don't have the technology to even dare hope you may create one monster per million tries. what designer babies ?
kanzure: i agree that the technology is missing. it should be built.
mircea_popescu: this is not how technology is built.
mircea_popescu: the "We did it reddit" dork got pounded saturday, did you watch the fight ?
kanzure: nah
mircea_popescu: anyways. did you happen to read say http://trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write-science-on-my-penis-first/#footnote_4_71619 ?
mircea_popescu: technology isn't "built" in that sense, from outside.
kanzure: outside of what
asciilifeform: from outside of yer own two hands.
asciilifeform: with which you build things.
kanzure: i would argue there is a knowledge component.
kanzure: i am not really sure how your epistemology works
asciilifeform: i did say 'two hands', not 'four hooves', neh
mircea_popescu: kanzure the idea is that there's entirely no relation between shoulding and tech building. whether it should or shouldn't, it'll go at the same rate.
mircea_popescu: science, research, technology are not political outputs. they are political inputs.
kanzure: you know maaku's apoliticalism right?
mircea_popescu: not as such. link ?
kanzure: nah no links. he just has a deep hatred of politics.
kanzure: i don't think he's written about it
mircea_popescu: (i have a very deep dislike for modern derps putting their name on things, though.)
asciilifeform never once heard of a maaku
kanzure: ((but since you knew bitcoin people i thought you would know, but w/e, it doesn't matter.))
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's no dislike here. just the factual matter.
BingoBoingo: <kanzure> you know maaku's apoliticalism right? << BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH A clash of who remembers/knows who with predictabru results
mircea_popescu: kanzure my survey of the online world mostly happens in the sense intel prepares summaries which i sometimes read, but generally looking for a laugh.
kanzure: i agree that should or shouldn't doesn't factor into it, but rate does change with intellectual effort
mircea_popescu: no such thing.
kanzure: unless you're fucking eliezer yudzilla
kanzure: in which case you don't get anything done
asciilifeform: kanzure: civ1 lied to you: there ain't such a thing as a 'money to discovery converter' you can shovel freshly-printed benjies into, and get transgenic mighty man out
mircea_popescu: it changes with intellectual ~discipline~. thisis not the same thing as effort.
mircea_popescu: and yes there's some relation between discipline as a societal construct, and politics. but this is complicated and poorly understood.
kanzure: so your model is disciplined folks haphazardly dwaddling along playing around with stupid technologies until they do something that turns out to be disciplined?
mircea_popescu: mno. my model is that people who are disciplined enough to behave rigurously will discover things at the rate at which this happens.
asciilifeform: the number of coolies illicitly removed from their chinese rice field and paid to 'publish or perish' cock-pulling adventure in usa, has 0 impact on anything.
BingoBoingo: <kanzure> unless you're fucking eliezer yudzilla << The fanfic guy?
mircea_popescu: discipline is a narrower set than effort, you understand. it seems "hard" ie efortful, especially for the noob. but it is not that hard once you internalize it. the effort-seeker howevere ends up mired in your sort of activity, "what's the most mentally painful activity, that'll be REALLY putting in some effort".
mircea_popescu: it's not. it's just faking the exam.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: thiel's catamite. he even bought him a harem, so he can pretend 'just like mp!'
mircea_popescu: o ? is this the guy who brave brave brave sir robert put out a fanfic challenge, then trilema blew a hole in his head and he "never heard of it" a la buffett ?
kanzure: BingoBoingo: yes the fanfic guy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: crackpot with looong history, goes back to '90s
asciilifeform: !#s yudkowsky
a111: 60 results for "yudkowsky", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=yudkowsky
kanzure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXARrMadTKk
kanzure: he's basically the gmaxwell of fearmongering about x-risk/ai
mircea_popescu: oh, oh, with the independent girlfriends and the ai thing ? and the something basilisk mega-pantsuit ?
kanzure: (except useless because he doesn't actually do anything)
kanzure: yea those morons
kanzure: anyway, i call him "yudzilla" or "big yud"
mircea_popescu: a well.
BingoBoingo: kanzure: And what does maaku do again, recognize the identifier, but not anything identifiable
kanzure: BingoBoingo: bitcoin core stuff. it's not important really.
mircea_popescu: kanzure you also read the famous piece with the "Where's the rembrandts" i take it ?
kanzure: mircea_popescu: i would say my approach has been focused towards disciplined centralized technology roadmapping and planning. and then personally financing some of the projects. although it turns out that stuff is expensive and stupid.
kanzure: no
mircea_popescu: o.O
kanzure: did you not take my illiteracy seriously
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform link again plox ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which
mircea_popescu: you recall, "where's the south african rembrandts, same size as flanders"
mircea_popescu: !!key kanzure
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/0E4CA12BE16BE69156F540C9984F10CC77169FD2.asc
mircea_popescu: !#s from:mirc rate kanzure
a111: 4 results for "from:mirc rate kanzure", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amirc%20rate%20kanzure
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-07#1563426 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-07 16:53 mircea_popescu: recall the "where are the rembrandts then" argument ? the us fails to produce a philosopher worth the mention every other decade ; athens managed that much on 1/1000th the population.
mircea_popescu: !!rate kanzure 1 old-new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/b6NyJ/?raw=true
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/fata-morgana-or-the-mirage-of-a-free-and-open-market/ << mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: um wasn't mine
mircea_popescu: !!v 1B741BE33650B2139657BAFB37C451AC308F32FA71ED8B6062DAF4EB38DCEBE5
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated kanzure 1 << old-new blood
mircea_popescu: kanzure say !!up to deedbot in private then !!v to verify the string it gives you
asciilifeform: !!rated kanzure
deedbot: asciilifeform rated kanzure -1 at 2014/06/21 22:40:29 << minor-league quisling; inquire within
mircea_popescu: https://static.pinboard.in/webstock_2014.htm << there we go. so kanzure : fine piece as any to explain the difference between "effort" and discipline.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform give him a reprieve wouldja ?
asciilifeform: yeah why not
asciilifeform: !!rate kanzure 1 rezident
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/c1stg/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust deedbot kanzure
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 3 connections.
asciilifeform: !!v 9B2D09B4E781D769A3ED96E4E8DCBDD4772EF823D6E966EE7F96F32D66DE9DB5
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of kanzure from -1 to 1 << rezident
asciilifeform: there kanzure , you oughta be able to voice. try to stay interesting.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thanks for the link, it was in there happily.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the other good illustration re effort/discipline for our needs here is of course the observation re possible symmetries, and how the subhuman cultures never actually discovered all of them. why noit ? they had decorative arts too, effort went in...
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-30#1690893 << ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-30 03:43 mircea_popescu: https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/WhyAntiInt.htm
mircea_popescu: there isn't a "for every million clay pots you get another one of the 17 symmetries". the right guys need twenty pots to find all of them. the polynesians or the africans will NEVER find them like they never found fucking madagascar.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha!
BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXn4_JkVFVo
mircea_popescu: !#s "walid"
a111: 2 results for "\"walid\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22walid%22
mircea_popescu: damn. am i the only khalid al-walid fan out there ? is this possible ?
asciilifeform: not the only. but possibly only one who sprechens englisch
mircea_popescu: hm.
mircea_popescu: !#s "napoleon"
a111: 148 results for "\"napoleon\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22napoleon%22
kanzure: mircea_popescu: surely you don't follow the kurzweil philosophy of "sit around and wait for people to be productive on their own"?
mircea_popescu: you know, dude was a better napoleon in the sense the term's usually used. he certainly didn'\t fucking forget about a whole army corps etc.
mircea_popescu: kanzure no. i keep slavegirls, whom i produce out of free ranged girls through beatings and generally speaking torture.
mircea_popescu: but the effort is in the sense of cleanning, not in the sense of pushing.
kanzure: isn't that sort of limited
kanzure: what?
mircea_popescu: limited by what ?
kanzure: what outcomes are you trying to effectuate precisely
mircea_popescu: i am not trying to effectuate any outcomes whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: causes ; not purposes.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ahahaha great
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Excellent tinkerer
mircea_popescu: the look on the 2nd one, you know, total precious cat "fuck, they're doing the people magic bullshit again"
BingoBoingo: for real, much better than the contrived knock off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_tk-XrXFHo
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703847 << let's have a look at what "Documenting" would look like on a topic of interest (intelligence) : http://trilema.com/2015/the-genetics-of-intelligence/ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:20 kanzure: well in many cases the mutations listed on that page have not been documented (on that page) as impacting positively or negatively. so the document should not be considered a definitive lookup table.
kanzure: "or at least, I think discipline is more correlated than effort. You can work _very_ hard at something and make no progress because your efforts are not directed."
mircea_popescu: or am i expected to think "designer" isn't to be interpreted to mean i can want a smart baby ? after all i can buy designer bags, of whichever kind, the only bags i can't buy being bags that ARE ANY GOOD. something like that ?
kanzure: i actually am not interested in intelligence genetics. i am more interested in things like working memory, memory capacity, etc.
mircea_popescu: so is alf, as fate has it!
kanzure: the difference between a monkey and a human is interesting. the difference between human and human, as measured by iq, is totally irrelevant to me. humans are idiots if you compare them only to each other.
mircea_popescu: we never had a good outing of this theme ; but it is my (probably heretical) notion that memory size dun really enter into it.
kanzure: well i don't really know if memory has an actual size (that concept might be bullshit)-- what about retention, is that the same thing as size
mircea_popescu: the ~only important thing is if your knowledge is structured or not ; and how. hence that older observation re dictionaries, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 etc. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
asciilifeform: !#s myelin
a111: 13 results for "myelin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=myelin
asciilifeform: kanzure ^ somewhere in there, we had a testable hypothesis.
mircea_popescu: in any case ; i am notorious for a very poor memory, including complete inability to remember say actresses names. ☟︎
asciilifeform: re (possibly all) extant variation in various cns 'horsepower'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i subscribe, not a bad angle. in fact, possibly best available atm.
asciilifeform: it handily explains the reflex speed 'g-loadedness', for instance.
asciilifeform: model axon as 'leaky feeder coax'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm sure i told the story of the dog ?
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: "memory", what's that. he got a bit of memory out of his own body through structuring the environment.
kanzure: intelligence or specific mutation is in the weeds; i'm still stuck trying to figure out your sense of "discipline". my approach has often been: death ray made up of delibrate effort -> problem => solution.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was dog's version of writing.
mircea_popescu: kanzure when i was a kid, i had a friend. he built this shambling abomination of a bar, each layer a different style, floor after floor.
mircea_popescu: it was in the early days of capitalism, and well...
kanzure: what was his goal
mircea_popescu: anyway. he'd hire student kids to do work for him. i once watched a dozen of them, try to demolish a wall with a 60kg hammer.
mircea_popescu: do you know how much effort they poured into it ? hours later, the wall was undented.
mircea_popescu: the pro got there, tore it all down without breaking a sweat.
kanzure: could be anywhere from zero to a lot of effort, if they made no progress. but they might also be idiots.
mircea_popescu: (spoiler : the idiots were trying to push the hammer. that's not how you tear down walls.)
mircea_popescu: this is then what discipline is. gotta do it ~right~.
kanzure: is swinging a hammer a form of effort here? i don't know man.
kanzure: yes
mircea_popescu: how not ?
mircea_popescu: they were fucking sweatting bullets, if that's not effort what is.
kanzure: they were sweating bullets from their sheer stupidity
mircea_popescu: this machine eats the same 200 W any mouthbreather's windows eats. just, mine isn't putting any of that towards animated paper clips.
kanzure: (sweat only weely correlates with effort)
kanzure: ..weakly.
mircea_popescu: then you misuse the term. how could sweat correlate weakly with effort, it's like saying gasoline consumption correlates weakly with distance travelled.
kanzure: alright well anyway, discipline seems more like a reliable metric i suppose, but go back to your insistence on causes not outcomes
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ << there.
kanzure: "I don't want anything, it's a factual observation." <-- this person is lying. he was communicating for a reason.
mircea_popescu: you think ?
kanzure: well i suppose this is your topic of the moment. processing...
mircea_popescu: does the sun also come out for a reason ?
mircea_popescu: you just happened to be there when it did, that's all.
kanzure: "and as such they're not only infinite and uncountable, but even undefined" but isn't this what calibration is for. you communicate with people because you are trying to callibrate collective goal behavior shit. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: bbs.
kanzure: and if the behavior is not actually generating the desired results, you go do other behavior, etc.
kanzure: (or change the desires appropriately if they were stupid)
kanzure: why bother listening to someone if they are just spewing irrelevant noise? bleh
trinque: indeed. go read the "causes and purposes" thing.
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, perhaps the best conversational definition for discipline would be "the opposite of WSOD".
kanzure: "do it if you feel like it" is lazy and undisciplined.
kanzure: (re: "causes")
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703846 << fine example of the item at work. and yes it's hard, but it's mostly hard AMONG THE IDIOTs, who want to herp derp and muh consensuses. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:19 asciilifeform: re the linked piece, i'm not satisfied with the direction of the causal arrow having been established
mircea_popescu: kanzure you think ? and pray tell what's satan to pay you so that you love him ?
kanzure: communication error
mircea_popescu: what OTHER fucking reason than feeling like it can there be!
kanzure: because you are doing it regardless of feels?
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/#selection-959.491-969.11 << satan paying you to love him reference.
kanzure: do you memorize bookmars like i do?
kanzure: bookmars
kanzure: fuc
mircea_popescu: nope
mircea_popescu: someone needs a new eyboard.
kanzure: i was once king of the nerdpeople http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
kanzure: 'Someone, somewhere, may well possess the secret of how to build a thermonuke using the materials of ordinary electronics.' *cough*
kanzure: 15:10 < kanzure> i'm a little confused. i know the prepwork is really annoying and laborious in theory. perhaps he should just mean a low-effort nuke.
kanzure: 15:11 < kanzure> oh right he doesn't believe in fucking effort
kanzure: (not true. i'm teasing.)
kanzure: "special thyratrons"
trinque: the fuck does effort have to do with purpose and generally speaking (and charitably) what point do you have?
kanzure: well originally my purpose (that's right i said it) of bringing this up with mircea_popescu was to query his preferences regarding thermonuclear war err i mean eugenics err i mean direct participation in technology development for genome engineering projects ☟︎
kanzure: there are in fact things that i do not know so i figured i would go figure those things out
kanzure: if things are so willy wonka in here that one cannot apply effort to directed intentional behavior then i'm not really sure how to communicate ☟︎
trinque: that was in no way a response to my question, and this isn't "lets all shitpost our feelings to signal how smart we are"
trinque: isn't it rather that in observing your own ignorance on a subject, you were moved to appear here?
trinque: so, cause.
kanzure: but it can't be a purpose? okay.
trinque: what'd it mean if it were a purpose?
kanzure: apparently it would be invalid. but not if it's labeled a cause. that's my understanding of the feedback so far.
trinque: no sort of political labeling *of reality* is going on, only labeling of a particular failure mode of the mind.
trinque: *there are not* purposes.
trinque: yudsy's basillisk does not flow back through time in-order-to bring about itself. ☟︎
phf: "intelligence" "humans are idiots" "kurzweil" "working memory" "genetics" "yudkowsky". it's funny at some point you don't even need to read the log, you can figure out the particular, previously observed failure mode of a person by keywords that stand out
shinohai: lol
kanzure: but i like neither yudkowsy nor kurzweil :(
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, here asciilifeform i got one for you : drujba in romanian ? chainsaw. and because there was that whole 80s "ask a girl for her friendship" thingee, ... "he offered me his chainsaw". ☟︎
mircea_popescu: phf did he fail yet ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703856 << moreover the "effects of loci" thing is rank nonsense of the level of "here's my thermometer-based debugging tool. who wants to measure cpu quadrant temperatures as software runs ???". there's no localisation in that sense. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:23 asciilifeform: and that we know jack shit re the effects of the loci UNTIL SOMEBODY TOGGLES'EM AT WILL
mircea_popescu: consider a simple element of historical warfare, that the us army could not reproduce today : arrow messaging. now, what is the effect of forest guard locus #48 on the court getting news of battle at hartford ? toggle it to what, taller man ?
mircea_popescu: "when all the 108 men in the 40 mile line were blond, the message came that the battle was won ; but later when two of them went to eat and were replaced by guys with green eyes, the message came through that lord monmouth's daugther ran off with the circus."
phf: i don't think so, this is more like figuring out that something's broken in a car by the sounds that the engine is making. doesn't mean that the car's not working anymore. it seems reasonable though that causes and purposes would be the response, since that kind of eliadism is a natural counterpoint to above... that's just my impressions though
mircea_popescu: yeah
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703860 << sure. say hello to http://trilema.com/2017/hela-matter/ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:24 kanzure: anyway, you don't need to focus merely on small mutations, you can also voluntarily delete chunks of chromosomes or whatever
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703868 << ahahahaha this was the best line of the day. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:26 kanzure: also, i am part of hgp-write (basically human genome project 2.0) one of our projects is removing 7 codons from the genome to render human biology impervious to all existing viruses.
kanzure: i should not claim to be related to the codon recoding, it's a subproject that was not proposed by me
mircea_popescu: boeke iirc.
kanzure: and church. etc.
shinohai: Wherefore removal of condoms got us all in this mess
mircea_popescu: anyway. are you pursuing a microbiology phd or something kanzure ?
kanzure: i am not associated with academia
kanzure: i read a bunch though: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ etc
kanzure: also http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/
kanzure: we do mad science: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap/
mircea_popescu: mkay. here's the problem : on one hand there's lieberman's very stern "forbidden to have course on nonsense" ; on the other hand people can't fucking help it that they're clueless on topics, and the sort of lulzy doodle nonsense sprouted by boetke is not HIS fault. that's, truthfully, how little we know of genetics.
mircea_popescu: this is an immense chasm, which will not see productive results in your lifetime. consequently the only options open to you are to either find something else to do ; or else go into welfare.
mircea_popescu: the ~only useful point of the state at this micro level is that it leaks tax money, enough so as to support hopeless research in fields not favoured by industry.
kanzure: is that a broad wlfare of survitude to wealthy patrons or what
mircea_popescu: hm ?
kanzure: is fundraising == welfare?
mircea_popescu: as contemplated here yes.
kanzure: k just checking
mircea_popescu: patreon, gofundme or whatever. i forget what they're all called, angel list something.
kanzure: crowdfunding doesn't work (if the crowd had money then they wouldn't need crowdfunding)
mircea_popescu: in my view it worked superbly -- it made britney spears the LAST of these "stars" build out of mob spending power.
mircea_popescu: good fucking riddance.
kanzure: she was not blessed by the noodly appendage of pre-fame wealth?
mircea_popescu: iirc she was trailer trash neh ?
kanzure: no idea. what happened to you not remembering celebrities.
mircea_popescu: i'm slightly better with teenagers.
kanzure: fair enough
kanzure: "productive results" in my book include cheap genome synthesis, the results of which are easily in reach (engineers haven't even bothered to optimize inkjet firing rate. "boo hoo it overheats and we haven't tried cooling"). ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704196 << mno. 'druzhba' (friendship) was THE sov-era chainsaw. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 22:42 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, here asciilifeform i got one for you : drujba in romanian ? chainsaw. and because there was that whole 80s "ask a girl for her friendship" thingee, ... "he offered me his chainsaw".
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703880 << if only dadan karambolo microbiology worked irl! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:29 BingoBoingo suggests sticking to the basics. P53 overexpression, Myostatin inhibition, and let the dice go on everything else
asciilifeform: so logical -- a la 'dumpster', 'xerox'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. that's why.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704198 << there do exist known single-locus items. just as 'flip this byte to nop and removes the derpy copyprotection' was a thing in manmade items. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 22:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703856 << moreover the "effects of loci" thing is rank nonsense of the level of "here's my thermometer-based debugging tool. who wants to measure cpu quadrant temperatures as software runs ???". there's no localisation in that sense.
asciilifeform: but there are very very few of these known.
mircea_popescu: yes, but how far'll get you.
kanzure: mircea_popescu: specifically do those causes just not interest you (health, lifespan, memory, gene therapy, etc), or is there some sort of confusion about actual feasibility, or what
mircea_popescu: kanzure i doubt there's much confusion re feasibility.
kanzure: certain things are more feasible than others. and there's a lot of morons out there causing lots of noise.
mircea_popescu: it's not that it's not feasible, it's that stretching your anus to accomodate trains is more feasible.
mircea_popescu: the noise part is sadly quite true.
kanzure: so if your feasibility assessment is based on the stupid shit you've heard before, then that's understandable
kanzure: there's signal that provides information about negative results. that's not noise.
mircea_popescu: kanzure appreciate what you're saying here. "mp, you're spending millions to get bad intel". rly ?
kanzure: i'm not that far yet, i'm just saying "if your superpowers are limited to writing blog posts then i'm not sure what you have to offer"
kanzure: e.g. no knowledge of you spending millions on anything at all
phf: it is certainly because you haven't found the right pdfs ☟︎
kanzure: oh is that the problem
mircea_popescu: wait, i was offering something ?!
kanzure: mircea_popescu: your blog posts offer something yes. or are you just babbling for no reason?
shinohai: Rich guys don't sit around in irc all day and make blog posts!
mircea_popescu: well, actually, i'm the authority here, definitionally what i'm saying can't be babbling. you've upgraded your argument from "your intel is broken" to tmsr dun werk, it's a very dubious trek.
mircea_popescu: take a more productive tack, like say something concrete.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704234 << my q for kanzure -- why not do this with own hands ? what do you need the heathens for ? just do it. iirc you even have money. and hands. so. do. it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:03 kanzure: "productive results" in my book include cheap genome synthesis, the results of which are easily in reach (engineers haven't even bothered to optimize inkjet firing rate. "boo hoo it overheats and we haven't tried cooling").
kanzure: authorities definitionally can't babble? show me how that works.
asciilifeform: cool the print nozzle, make transgenic muscle army, annihilate the derps.
asciilifeform: i'll even buy a ticket to watch.
kanzure: asciilifeform: insufficient money i think. although this might be a bad reason. i could accept that. nobody calls me on this type of thing.
mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning." ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: it's in the last link, re teh HeLa.
asciilifeform: kanzure: terrible reason. you'd be surprised on what can be done for almost no money.
asciilifeform: FUCKGOATS, for instance, obsoleted entire pseudoindustry.
kanzure: well i'm not one to argue for inflated resources, sure
mircea_popescu: so far it's not altogether clear what specirfically you're arguing for tbh.
kanzure: no i'm still claiming your intel is broken
mircea_popescu: yes but unless you make falsifiable statements of value it's not very useful.
kanzure: dna is relevant. production of synthetic dna is relevant and feasible, even if nobody promises you shakespearen genomes on day 1.
asciilifeform: i remember the first time i used a pcr thermocycler and was told 'costs 8k usd', and thought 'are you all retarded, peltier on my cpu cost 10bux'
asciilifeform: and afaik TO THIS DAY the 'pro' machine costs 8k
asciilifeform: ( though NOW with peltier in it )
kanzure: yes and then people made cheapo thermocyclers. what's wrong with that?
asciilifeform: because it ain't about results, the 'field' is about spending cheap usg spendolade
asciilifeform: on sinecures
kanzure: (openpcr actually isn't that cheap. it's sort of annoying.)
mircea_popescu: ahaha there's an open-pcr ?
kanzure: yea it sucks tho
kanzure: it's like adobe air + an arduino
asciilifeform: lol!!
mircea_popescu: phf the more amusing thing here is that only last week i was wondering where the 3d printing folk went.
kanzure: and then lasercut plywood because we're all hipsters and our eyes don't bleed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you gotta see this thing.
kanzure: asciilifeform: here's a little project of mine, recently. https://blog.kitmatic.com/2017/06/28/electroporation-is-now-quick-high-yield-and-commodity-priced/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whichthing
mircea_popescu: the plywood pcr
mircea_popescu: shit i wish we thought of this in the early days of "fpga mining".
kanzure: http://openpcr.org/
asciilifeform: ^ the lulzy bit is not that it exists ( it existed 10y ago ) but that it had 0 effect on the cost of 'pro' apparatus
mircea_popescu: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/930368578/openpcr-open-source-biotech-on-your-desktop << possibly better link
shinohai: Handy pic of what someone that actually uses open-pcr might look like: http://openpcr.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Picture-9.png
asciilifeform: when you have an expense acct from usg.academia, you not only dun give a fuq what the instrument costs -- but the option of 'use peltier' is not even on the table
kanzure: that pic was actually taken from a volunteer birdhouse assembly workshop
asciilifeform: shinohai: that thing exists so that beckman et al can justify their 5figs payola for ~same thing, 'looksy, them derps'
mircea_popescu: credible.
asciilifeform: the 'warhol, choose can of coke on left or right' system atwork.
kanzure: anyway, the reason for "infeasibility" claims is because people try to do impossible things; there have not been infeasibility claims regarding genome synthesis or assembly.
asciilifeform: kanzure: the fundamental confusion is actually very similar to the one in your earlier nanotech
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how does it go around you know, polymerase getting destroyed ?
kanzure: my earlier nanotech?
mircea_popescu: iirc it was temperature senstivie.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thermocycler is just this programmable chiller/oven item. follows a curve.
kanzure: asciilifeform: i rescued a silly open-source nanotech cad program from being deleted and forgotten. however, i did not fund its original development. is this the thing you're tlaing about? https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha wait, they switched to termophillic bacteria polymerase ?! god help us.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i know. the problem with dna amplification with it is that (on tech i recalled) the required enzyme gets periodically destroyed.
mircea_popescu: but apparently, they replaced it with some sea scum.
asciilifeform: kanzure: see the earlier thread re subj, yes
kanzure: you insert the reagents at the start of the reaction, the polymerase is not a permanent component of the machine.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-10#414094 << ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2013-12-10 01:49 asciilifeform: if i ever strike lucky, i'll write 'fairycad.' create magical gadgets, just need pixie dust fabricator.
kanzure: "normally the left derives semantic authority from threats of mob violence/witch hunts; what does mircea_popescu have?"
mircea_popescu: apodictics!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703884 << tsk. too uphill huh ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:30 asciilifeform: kanzure: objective was to economically make (by the kg) a (modified) butyrylcholinesterase
mircea_popescu: you can get bacteria to do anything you want them to ; provided you want them to do something they were going to do already. gotta be a metabolic leftover.
kanzure: no i just fed it to my bioreactor person to see what he would design for me. butyrylcholinesterase proposal will be forthcoming.
phf: ah makes sense, for some reason i thought 3d printers went in the direction of spiroligomers, but hackerspace for which i was mocked is running a CRISPR project in their fridge so this is consistent
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they also 'unlearn' as quickly as 'learned', the extra crud. it dun help'em survive in the welfarestat^H^H^H^H^Hculturevat . so they ditch it
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: was major problem for the biowar folx
asciilifeform: ( virulence vanishes )
mircea_popescu: there's no great advantage for "a flying stegosaurus with poisonous spines on every bone!!" sorta videogame items.
mircea_popescu: poison is expensive as all shit.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's in the last link, re teh HeLa. << For further reading ask Hussein Bahamas about the trechery of Big Headed Yakub.
mircea_popescu: (speaking of which... if what you want is in the vein of yl-cholinesterase, maybe try engineering spiders ?
asciilifeform: kanzure: reactor was pointedly not the problem. the trait simply wouldn't stick.
asciilifeform: and nobody found out specifically why.
mircea_popescu: or rather : specifically how.
kanzure: http://gizmodo.com/why-bringing-back-a-wooly-mammoth-is-no-longer-science-1797099747
mircea_popescu: the why is above.
kanzure: "".. isn’t the only one working to clone a mammoth. There’s also Hwang Woo-suk’s Korean dog-cloning lab, Soaam Technologies [....] He was the one who claimed to clone human cells, but it turns out he had been forcing his students to donate their eggs, and secondly that his clone cells are fraudulent, so he’s trying to resurrect his reputation by being the first to clone ...
kanzure: ...a mammoth.""
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the competition used goats. afaik eventually went broke, 0 result.
asciilifeform misread as 'scam technologies'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im strictly going by the above "woman will do anything you wanrt provided it is what she ewas goping to do anyway". afaik, spiders do actually make variants of it. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it also had to be a (mostly)human BchE. because injectable.
mircea_popescu: oh.
kanzure: please clarify why apodicticity is not philosophical wankery
mircea_popescu: that old nonsense chemwar thing.
asciilifeform: otherwise we'dve simply put mongeese through blender.
asciilifeform: (waring co. makes appropriate-size blender.)
mircea_popescu: kanzure calling something "philosophicval wankery" is a political act, no different from saying niggers dun belong in civilised society.
kanzure: is "trying to figure out whether mircea_popescu is just babbling on a blog" also a "political act"?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enough, BchE is ~the~ preantidote. inject couplea grams, and walk right through vx.
asciilifeform: problem is, only known source -- human blood
asciilifeform: by the tonne.
asciilifeform: for 1 dose.
asciilifeform: (well not quite tonne, iirc 100 litres or so per )
kanzure: if this knowledge only enables you to feel alright about whatever cause passes your fancy for the moment then i would argue you're engaging in a lot of effort for a rather trivial outcome.
mircea_popescu: kanzure the trying to figure it out, no. the expecting i'll justify myself, yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform funny how that goes.
kanzure: that's sort of rude isn't it. wouldn't it be less total noise to just answer instead of either one of us wasting our time?
mircea_popescu: also funny, if not funnier : apparently nature very much favours the republican outlook. "divide teh people into two groups. blender one for the choline, vx the other."
asciilifeform still doesn't quite grasp what the q was, that kanzure wants answerd
kanzure: i don't really care if it's "justified" by you, i care about correctly understanding
mircea_popescu: kanzure what'd i answer ?
kanzure: you were arguing to me that directed effort is irrelevant (or something) so i'm trying to ascertain what your proposed alternative is
mircea_popescu: i was not arguing at you. we were examining your model together, and it came out unconvincing, and then we were left trying to make something of the pieces.
asciilifeform: kanzure: the alternative is amply illustrated in the logs : effort of actual people, without any trace of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1640325 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-07 20:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1639964 << one of the (~the~ ?) advantage of tmsr work for intelligent folk is that there isn't a braindamaged/choiceless manager in the loop going "i know it's stupid but it must be done".
mircea_popescu: you're more than welcome to go again, but you'll need a decent definition of effort and some sort of proof it's directable.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in practical terms i am politically powerful because i've successfully protected a bunch of smart people from idiocy for years, and they have the (pewrhaps unwarranted) expectation this may continue.
kanzure: you mean by (perhaps correctly) criticising everything right?
mircea_popescu: because the political power is a super-2 exponential on smarts, whereas cost is a logarithmic on stupidity, it's very easy to be powerful hanging out with smart people. almost as easy as it is to go bankrupt hanging out with many people. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: kanzure the "by" part is rather open-ended.
kanzure: well fine.
mircea_popescu: there's some work in the log re creating mechanical-mp, but mostly at the lulz stage.
kanzure: i am trying to ascertain what you exercise power for
kanzure: or if you don't.
kanzure: other than blogging :-)
mircea_popescu: what for.
kanzure: it's just how i work, i internalize things
mircea_popescu: power is a misnomer in any case ; it's arche as in greek not power as in latin.
mircea_popescu: and the bad notation makes you go into walls, as per "since it's power it must have goal"
kanzure: i'd settle for "observed tendencies or use of power that would probably fail without such power"
mircea_popescu: aite.
kanzure: you could safely argue it would look like a plot of the sha256 function against a graph, but i would also be surprised to hear that ☟︎
mircea_popescu: funny you should mention that, there's also a discussion re rng and power in teh logs.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the power driving happy club, http://68.media.tumblr.com/a533597cc4b5c9a0d8378a536f495797/tumblr_ntbr97L7LW1tr6tzco1_400.gif
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686026 << see also thread ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 18:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you.
asciilifeform: re 'if you're modellable, you are a mechanical part, not a power'
asciilifeform: one of the aspects, imho, of serious power, is that it does not present itself in the form of an 'exam' that examgrinder derps can 'study' for an' finesse.
asciilifeform: it's zeta, comes and impales your entire fucking village to make the point that NO, you can't model it.
mircea_popescu: confucius disagrees!
asciilifeform: the inventor of the original usg - yes - quite disagreed.
mircea_popescu: hehe
kanzure: alright so the argument is that to whatever extent there's a modellable aspect, that's a failure mode and not necessarily a preference
asciilifeform: kanzure: kindergarten gametheory
mircea_popescu: actually part of republican doctrine, there's no standard policies in all sorts of shocking places.
mircea_popescu: like you know, what ratings mean for one.
kanzure: so just hoard a bunch of power and don't provide much signal regarding its application or likely application. is this some sort of gmaxwell-level fear of "unintentionally causing others to agree with you, by unethically signaling to them an idea that they shouldn't have had in the first place" bullshit?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703892 < http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-09#1695593 ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:32 kanzure: jihan has been quite friendly so far
a111: Logged on 2017-08-09 00:40 asciilifeform: No one else did. Not theymos, not knighmb, not pirate, not silbert, not Jihan Wu. Not satoshi or asciilifeform.
mircea_popescu: ha-HA!
mircea_popescu: kanzure i lean on people all the damned time, what are you talking about.
kanzure: i wouldn't know
mircea_popescu: you're even voiced atm because i did lol.
kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/futurism/Who%20steers%20who%20steers%3f%20A%20note%20on%20identifying%20vulnerable%20moral%20propensities.pdf
mircea_popescu: o god with the %20s
kanzure: i have the best filenames
mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't read pdfs, so put it in a pastebin ?
kanzure: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Who-Steers-Who-Steers-a-Note-on-Identifying-Vulner-Kaas-Rayhawk/3ac398a295bd468d936bc50092142e3cb2f60a71
kanzure: bad abstract parse there. it ends half-way through.
mircea_popescu: lessee
mircea_popescu: lol "while this risk can not be avoided entirely... here's how im not giving up".
mircea_popescu: sane person would have stopped there. "this risk can not be avoided ; abandon du travail"
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/08/28/bob-lutz-on-why-ford-ousted-mark-fields-adnotated/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Bob Lutz on Why Ford Ousted Mark Fields, adnotated.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703932 << ftr you realize out-and-out myostatin inhibition would result in a bad case of blindness if you're lucky. you might grow fucking horns. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:43 asciilifeform: kanzure: mike w promised myostatin inhibitor to me in 2007 !!1111 where is it ?!
mircea_popescu: soft, squishy, horns nevertheless.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: d00d had some quite musculatured, and not otherwise mutilated ( as far as anybody could tell ) rat
asciilifeform: but point being, never came remotely close to useful item in man.
mircea_popescu: yeah, and if they grow enough they'll push your eyes ouyt.