mircea_popescu: who can afford to pound a pound of almond seeds into fine dust by hand ? teh sultan of swing, and him only!
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4290.0, vol: 4577.66314672 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4298.9, vol: 12288.98927052 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4311.158, vol: 2503.54137687 | Volume-weighted last average: 4298.38101749
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo aha. seems rather exactly the pantsuit next play.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, apparently the Orchard has pushed Stormfront offline now.
danielpbarron: white nationalist website kicked off tor, should be someone incoming to channel re: this
mircea_popescu: lol wait what, "kicked off tor" ? isn't that what tor's for ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, they should write to google. iirc they are now hosting kerbs on their "totally not for bloggers" shared server, what's another one.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron such lulz. "oh, it's totally not a honeypot". really ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> which one was stormfront again ? << The forum for which the Weev Daily Stormer was named, but no relation
☟︎ BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Wait, more kicking off of things?
danielpbarron: i don't wanna spoil the surprise just yet. let's see if she shows up
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 482307 | Current Difficulty: 8.88171856257E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 483839 | Next Difficulty In: 1532 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
ben_vulpes: $girl in further stitches over panel seven of haft
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 02:25 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> which one was stormfront again ? << The forum for which the Weev Daily Stormer was named, but no relation
shinohai: Some people shouldn't be allowed to think.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
deedbot: kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
kanzure: where precisely do i go to pitch mircea on eugenics 2.0?
kanzure: i have begun to master the art of sleeptyping so sleep is no longer an inconvenience
kanzure: yeah maybe not appropriate for public logs at the moment
kanzure: should i be hurt that he doesn't know me?
BingoBoingo: kanzure: What's the worst that happens if you pitch in a public log?
kanzure: basically i sat down and tried to figure out what is the most controversial idea i could possibly construct
☟︎ kanzure: i am proposing an aggressive timeline like 100 designer baby genomes by 2030 and then 1 million designer babies by 2045
kanzure: so i guess to answer your question, ethnic cleansings?
kanzure: well in many cases the mutations listed on that page have not been documented (on that page) as impacting positively or negatively. so the document should not be considered a definitive lookup table.
☟︎ kanzure: and also the effect size is minimal in many cases.
kanzure: yes a lot of biology is stupid i'm not sure what your concern is
BingoBoingo: lol, this is their take on a common mutation: "The polymorphisms rs1800497 and rs2283265 (also known as the Taq1a polymorphism) near the dopamine receptor 2 (DRD2) gene are associated with improvements during working memory training. (rs1800497(C;C) better avoidance of errors). However this polymorphism comes with serious tradeoffs: antisocial, borderline, dissocial, and avoidant personality disorders, addictive and impulsive behaviors s
BingoBoingo: uch as binge eating, pathological gambling, and drug abuse. (more)"
kanzure: yes well online interactive toggling is also a possible thing
kanzure: anyway, you don't need to focus merely on small mutations, you can also voluntarily delete chunks of chromosomes or whatever
☟︎ kanzure: optogenetics is one way of interactive toggle (usuaully using neuronal receptors but there are other techniques such as light-sensitive cas9/recombinases/etc)
kanzure: wwc1 t/t carriers tend have >19% improvement in working memory performance
kanzure: also, i am part of hgp-write (basically human genome project 2.0) one of our projects is removing 7 codons from the genome to render human biology impervious to all existing viruses.
☟︎ kanzure: where's your "causual link" now
kanzure: well there's some ecoli results for you.
kanzure: ecoli is an actual biology
BingoBoingo suggests sticking to the basics. P53 overexpression, Myostatin inhibition, and let the dice go on everything else
☟︎ kanzure: i read all logs everywhere. it's sort of my thing.
kanzure: well i was thinking about just going for the heart of the whole thing (designer genomes/eugenics) and go after those bathtubs
kanzure: jihan has been quite friendly so far
☟︎ kanzure: just some guy it doesn't matter
shinohai: asciilifeform: He is one of Roger Ver's Chinese muppets
kanzure: i don't know any hereditary magic tricks to eliminate headaches but that should be doable.
kanzure: first you have to kill everyone who has ever had a headache...
mircea_popescu: well, unless i am actually coming down with something.
shinohai recommends 2 excederin and a bottle or 3 of Gatorade ....
mircea_popescu: the problem with hanging out with sluts is well known to soccer moms. kids are fine, you're fucking dead.
mircea_popescu: shinohai if i lived in a jivilized country with jews in it i'd just have some cabbage juice. sadly, no cellars here. too hot, too wet.
mircea_popescu: i guess. there's an inch of soil and under that basalt, you understand. there's a reason jungle soil is poor -- all of it gets washed into ocean.
mircea_popescu: and in other shit i will now randombly whine about : i bought these coasters, right ? cuz i was in some random mall picking up some chick and we went in an "upscale" libreria and well, i dunno, i impulse bought some fucking coasters. she thought they were expensive.
mircea_popescu: here's the problems with "expensive, upscale" coasters : they're not a square of cut up cork, like you'd expect if they were you know, uncivilised, unglamorous, un-internet-of-things orcfare. no. they're a thin strip of cork glued to cardboard with some shiny drawings on top.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: cuz i TOTALLY need pretty colorful pictures on my fucking coasters, lest my brain turns off or some shit.
mircea_popescu: now : the sheen on the top adheres to wet glasses, which in this climate is ALL of them. so you get floating coasters.
kanzure: about to get unvoiced i think. could someone offer mircea_popescu a link to the right place in the logs for the eugenics war.
kanzure: oh my god i am bad at math
mircea_popescu: THIS is what your money's fucking buying omfg, "i live in the country so i can spend 80k a year on renting a cardboard box and have nice coasters which are worse than a fucking pile of dried goat shit"
deedbot: kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 16:16 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'What's the latest on Mircea? I've not heard about him in a while.' 'I think his followers actually kind of excommunicated him after he lost their bitcoins. I don't pay much attention to them though.' << didjaknow !
mircea_popescu: really, "i wonder what happened to the clouds, i've not been out of basement for a decade, poor clouds, they must be faring poorly"
kanzure: asciilifeform: i have someone else working on a very similar project these days. it's in progress.
kanzure: asciilifeform: turns out you have to actually pay people to do things
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:12 kanzure: alright well that's lame.
kanzure: it's hell of a way to spend one's life, that's all.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:16 kanzure: basically i sat down and tried to figure out what is the most controversial idea i could possibly construct
kanzure: one of the genetic changes i have proposed is something that seems to cause 4-5 hours/night to be sufficient rest
kanzure: mircea_popescu: well actually the origin of the idea is that i am interested in genome engineering and human enhancement technology. but i also recognize that controversy is necessary to bring attention and funding.
kanzure: mircea_popescu: correct. i've looked at it just now but i don't see how it changes anything. shouldn't you prefer people to be hard workers, even if they can't own property?
mircea_popescu: kanzure the model whereby you "attract funding" for "your idea" is fundamentally broken. i don't mean a little broken, i mean fundamentally broken -- it makes it impossible to actually have an idea, which is why your "attempt to find the most controversial conceivable notion" ended up with "what bit of fashionable nonsense could i waste my life with in the optimisitc but ultimately baseless hope it'll be worthy my or anyone's
kanzure: what if i claim that i'm illiterate
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> don't be ridiculous, it's cocktail flu. << The doctor prescribes Bloody Mary x2
kanzure: mircea_popescu: i disagree with your evaluation of whether it's a waste of time, or that it is fashionable in the least. i simply recognize the value of controversy.
kanzure: and the controversy stuff is a tacky add-on, i'll admit.
kanzure: i haven't internalized your post completely so i'm not sure what you are expecting me to extract from it.
mircea_popescu: kanzure do you understand how current "genetic engineering" works ? specifically why it's done to corn not sheep ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the way you make this is that in a dry and cold cellar you emplace a tun, 100 liters say. then fill it with whole cabbages. then add brine and some spices. then let it sit a few months.
kanzure: i understand many aspects of genetic engineering. i also understand why mammalian projects are more complex.
kanzure: it's done to many mammals i'm not sure about sheep specifically. why would sheep matter?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Never had the cabbage juice. Twas a big fan of curing hangovers with moar booze
mircea_popescu: sigh. alright, here, let me give you a primer on genetics as a tehcnological consideration, so you can impress the "what happened to mp" ass-up-buttholes with your transcendental scholarship.
kanzure: they actually know nothing about you
kanzure: it's sort of weird. i asked and their answer was "he's angry". i am pretty sure they are idiots.
mircea_popescu: so, originally genetic experiments were carried out on mammals, hence dolly the cloned sheep. it rapidly became obvious that the only available tech ("throw shit at wall, maybe something sticks") is a terrible fit for the complexity of mammals, and there's absolutely no hope of obtaining iondustrially usable results this generation there.
kanzure: yes there are many tools that are necessary to make progress, such as order-of-magnitude cheaper dna assembly and synthesis technologies.
mircea_popescu: so effort was instead moved to plants, which are three degrees of magnitude simpler. there, the approach works, you blast a square mile worth of soy with random nonsense and then select the few plants still standing. which is how the whole "glycosate-resistent" craze started : it's not DESIGNER plants.
kanzure: yes i am aware of mutagenesis and selection techniques
mircea_popescu: it's plants which have been selected for the only hopefully-economically-useful trait available. which is already a very distant push.
mircea_popescu: well so if you're familiar why don't you answer when asked.
kanzure: i have no idea how to speak with you
kanzure: many would consider the illiteracy to be the primary problem
kanzure: yea. the thing where people care what looks real.
mircea_popescu: the thing where getting a "designer baby" be 99.9999% identical to an actual baby makes it less tolerable than a 99% or 80% similar result ; and not a little less tolerable, EXTREMELY intolerable.
mircea_popescu: in other words : you don't have the technology to even dare hope you may create one monster per million tries. what designer babies ?
kanzure: i agree that the technology is missing. it should be built.
mircea_popescu: the "We did it reddit" dork got pounded saturday, did you watch the fight ?
kanzure: i would argue there is a knowledge component.
kanzure: i am not really sure how your epistemology works
mircea_popescu: kanzure the idea is that there's entirely no relation between shoulding and tech building. whether it should or shouldn't, it'll go at the same rate.
mircea_popescu: science, research, technology are not political outputs. they are political inputs.
kanzure: you know maaku's apoliticalism right?
kanzure: nah no links. he just has a deep hatred of politics.
kanzure: i don't think he's written about it
mircea_popescu: (i have a very deep dislike for modern derps putting their name on things, though.)
kanzure: ((but since you knew bitcoin people i thought you would know, but w/e, it doesn't matter.))
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's no dislike here. just the factual matter.
BingoBoingo: <kanzure> you know maaku's apoliticalism right? << BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH A clash of who remembers/knows who with predictabru results
mircea_popescu: kanzure my survey of the online world mostly happens in the sense intel prepares summaries which i sometimes read, but generally looking for a laugh.
kanzure: i agree that should or shouldn't doesn't factor into it, but rate does change with intellectual effort
kanzure: unless you're fucking eliezer yudzilla
kanzure: in which case you don't get anything done
mircea_popescu: it changes with intellectual ~discipline~. thisis not the same thing as effort.
mircea_popescu: and yes there's some relation between discipline as a societal construct, and politics. but this is complicated and poorly understood.
kanzure: so your model is disciplined folks haphazardly dwaddling along playing around with stupid technologies until they do something that turns out to be disciplined?
mircea_popescu: mno. my model is that people who are disciplined enough to behave rigurously will discover things at the rate at which this happens.
BingoBoingo: <kanzure> unless you're fucking eliezer yudzilla << The fanfic guy?
mircea_popescu: discipline is a narrower set than effort, you understand. it seems "hard" ie efortful, especially for the noob. but it is not that hard once you internalize it. the effort-seeker howevere ends up mired in your sort of activity, "what's the most mentally painful activity, that'll be REALLY putting in some effort".
mircea_popescu: o ? is this the guy who brave brave brave sir robert put out a fanfic challenge, then trilema blew a hole in his head and he "never heard of it" a la buffett ?
kanzure: BingoBoingo: yes the fanfic guy
kanzure: he's basically the gmaxwell of fearmongering about x-risk/ai
mircea_popescu: oh, oh, with the independent girlfriends and the ai thing ? and the something basilisk mega-pantsuit ?
kanzure: (except useless because he doesn't actually do anything)
kanzure: anyway, i call him "yudzilla" or "big yud"
BingoBoingo: kanzure: And what does maaku do again, recognize the identifier, but not anything identifiable
kanzure: BingoBoingo: bitcoin core stuff. it's not important really.
mircea_popescu: kanzure you also read the famous piece with the "Where's the rembrandts" i take it ?
kanzure: mircea_popescu: i would say my approach has been focused towards disciplined centralized technology roadmapping and planning. and then personally financing some of the projects. although it turns out that stuff is expensive and stupid.
kanzure: did you not take my illiteracy seriously
mircea_popescu: you recall, "where's the south african rembrandts, same size as flanders"
a111: Logged on 2016-11-07 16:53 mircea_popescu: recall the "where are the rembrandts then" argument ? the us fails to produce a philosopher worth the mention every other decade ; athens managed that much on 1/1000th the population.
mircea_popescu: !!v 1B741BE33650B2139657BAFB37C451AC308F32FA71ED8B6062DAF4EB38DCEBE5
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated kanzure 1 << old-new blood
mircea_popescu: kanzure say !!up to deedbot in private then !!v to verify the string it gives you
deedbot: asciilifeform rated kanzure -1 at 2014/06/21 22:40:29 << minor-league quisling; inquire within
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 1 by 3 connections.
deedbot: asciilifeform updated rating of kanzure from -1 to 1 << rezident
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thanks for the link, it was in there happily.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the other good illustration re effort/discipline for our needs here is of course the observation re possible symmetries, and how the subhuman cultures never actually discovered all of them. why noit ? they had decorative arts too, effort went in...
mircea_popescu: there isn't a "for every million clay pots you get another one of the 17 symmetries". the right guys need twenty pots to find all of them. the polynesians or the africans will NEVER find them like they never found fucking madagascar.
mircea_popescu: damn. am i the only khalid al-walid fan out there ? is this possible ?
kanzure: mircea_popescu: surely you don't follow the kurzweil philosophy of "sit around and wait for people to be productive on their own"?
mircea_popescu: you know, dude was a better napoleon in the sense the term's usually used. he certainly didn'\t fucking forget about a whole army corps etc.
mircea_popescu: kanzure no. i keep slavegirls, whom i produce out of free ranged girls through beatings and generally speaking torture.
mircea_popescu: but the effort is in the sense of cleanning, not in the sense of pushing.
kanzure: isn't that sort of limited
kanzure: what outcomes are you trying to effectuate precisely
mircea_popescu: i am not trying to effectuate any outcomes whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: the look on the 2nd one, you know, total precious cat "fuck, they're doing the people magic bullshit again"
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:20 kanzure: well in many cases the mutations listed on that page have not been documented (on that page) as impacting positively or negatively. so the document should not be considered a definitive lookup table.
kanzure: "or at least, I think discipline is more correlated than effort. You can work _very_ hard at something and make no progress because your efforts are not directed."
mircea_popescu: or am i expected to think "designer" isn't to be interpreted to mean i can want a smart baby ? after all i can buy designer bags, of whichever kind, the only bags i can't buy being bags that ARE ANY GOOD. something like that ?
kanzure: i actually am not interested in intelligence genetics. i am more interested in things like working memory, memory capacity, etc.
kanzure: the difference between a monkey and a human is interesting. the difference between human and human, as measured by iq, is totally irrelevant to me. humans are idiots if you compare them only to each other.
mircea_popescu: we never had a good outing of this theme ; but it is my (probably heretical) notion that memory size dun really enter into it.
kanzure: well i don't really know if memory has an actual size (that concept might be bullshit)-- what about retention, is that the same thing as size
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
mircea_popescu: in any case ; i am notorious for a very poor memory, including complete inability to remember say actresses names.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i subscribe, not a bad angle. in fact, possibly best available atm.
mircea_popescu: "memory", what's that. he got a bit of memory out of his own body through structuring the environment.
kanzure: intelligence or specific mutation is in the weeds; i'm still stuck trying to figure out your sense of "discipline". my approach has often been: death ray made up of delibrate effort -> problem => solution.
mircea_popescu: kanzure when i was a kid, i had a friend. he built this shambling abomination of a bar, each layer a different style, floor after floor.
mircea_popescu: anyway. he'd hire student kids to do work for him. i once watched a dozen of them, try to demolish a wall with a 60kg hammer.
mircea_popescu: do you know how much effort they poured into it ? hours later, the wall was undented.
mircea_popescu: the pro got there, tore it all down without breaking a sweat.
kanzure: could be anywhere from zero to a lot of effort, if they made no progress. but they might also be idiots.
mircea_popescu: (spoiler : the idiots were trying to push the hammer. that's not how you tear down walls.)
kanzure: is swinging a hammer a form of effort here? i don't know man.
mircea_popescu: they were fucking sweatting bullets, if that's not effort what is.
kanzure: they were sweating bullets from their sheer stupidity
mircea_popescu: this machine eats the same 200 W any mouthbreather's windows eats. just, mine isn't putting any of that towards animated paper clips.
kanzure: (sweat only weely correlates with effort)
mircea_popescu: then you misuse the term. how could sweat correlate weakly with effort, it's like saying gasoline consumption correlates weakly with distance travelled.
kanzure: alright well anyway, discipline seems more like a reliable metric i suppose, but go back to your insistence on causes not outcomes
kanzure: "I don't want anything, it's a factual observation." <-- this person is lying. he was communicating for a reason.
kanzure: well i suppose this is your topic of the moment. processing...
mircea_popescu: you just happened to be there when it did, that's all.
kanzure: "and as such they're not only infinite and uncountable, but even undefined" but isn't this what calibration is for. you communicate with people because you are trying to callibrate collective goal behavior shit.
☟︎ kanzure: and if the behavior is not actually generating the desired results, you go do other behavior, etc.
kanzure: (or change the desires appropriately if they were stupid)
kanzure: why bother listening to someone if they are just spewing irrelevant noise? bleh
trinque: indeed. go read the "causes and purposes" thing.
mircea_popescu: come to think of it, perhaps the best conversational definition for discipline would be "the opposite of WSOD".
kanzure: "do it if you feel like it" is lazy and undisciplined.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:19 asciilifeform: re the linked piece, i'm not satisfied with the direction of the causal arrow having been established
mircea_popescu: kanzure you think ? and pray tell what's satan to pay you so that you love him ?
mircea_popescu: what OTHER fucking reason than feeling like it can there be!
kanzure: because you are doing it regardless of feels?
kanzure: do you memorize bookmars like i do?
kanzure: 'Someone, somewhere, may well possess the secret of how to build a thermonuke using the materials of ordinary electronics.' *cough*
kanzure: 15:10 < kanzure> i'm a little confused. i know the prepwork is really annoying and laborious in theory. perhaps he should just mean a low-effort nuke.
kanzure: 15:11 < kanzure> oh right he doesn't believe in fucking effort
trinque: the fuck does effort have to do with purpose and generally speaking (and charitably) what point do you have?
kanzure: well originally my purpose (that's right i said it) of bringing this up with mircea_popescu was to query his preferences regarding thermonuclear war err i mean eugenics err i mean direct participation in technology development for genome engineering projects
☟︎ kanzure: there are in fact things that i do not know so i figured i would go figure those things out
kanzure: if things are so willy wonka in here that one cannot apply effort to directed intentional behavior then i'm not really sure how to communicate
☟︎ trinque: that was in no way a response to my question, and this isn't "lets all shitpost our feelings to signal how smart we are"
trinque: isn't it rather that in observing your own ignorance on a subject, you were moved to appear here?
kanzure: but it can't be a purpose? okay.
trinque: what'd it mean if it were a purpose?
kanzure: apparently it would be invalid. but not if it's labeled a cause. that's my understanding of the feedback so far.
trinque: no sort of political labeling *of reality* is going on, only labeling of a particular failure mode of the mind.
trinque: yudsy's basillisk does not flow back through time in-order-to bring about itself.
☟︎ phf: "intelligence" "humans are idiots" "kurzweil" "working memory" "genetics" "yudkowsky". it's funny at some point you don't even need to read the log, you can figure out the particular, previously observed failure mode of a person by keywords that stand out
kanzure: but i like neither yudkowsy nor kurzweil :(
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, here asciilifeform i got one for you : drujba in romanian ? chainsaw. and because there was that whole 80s "ask a girl for her friendship" thingee, ... "he offered me his chainsaw".
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:23 asciilifeform: and that we know jack shit re the effects of the loci UNTIL SOMEBODY TOGGLES'EM AT WILL
mircea_popescu: consider a simple element of historical warfare, that the us army could not reproduce today : arrow messaging. now, what is the effect of forest guard locus #48 on the court getting news of battle at hartford ? toggle it to what, taller man ?
mircea_popescu: "when all the 108 men in the 40 mile line were blond, the message came that the battle was won ; but later when two of them went to eat and were replaced by guys with green eyes, the message came through that lord monmouth's daugther ran off with the circus."
phf: i don't think so, this is more like figuring out that something's broken in a car by the sounds that the engine is making. doesn't mean that the car's not working anymore. it seems reasonable though that causes and purposes would be the response, since that kind of eliadism is a natural counterpoint to above... that's just my impressions though
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:24 kanzure: anyway, you don't need to focus merely on small mutations, you can also voluntarily delete chunks of chromosomes or whatever
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:26 kanzure: also, i am part of hgp-write (basically human genome project 2.0) one of our projects is removing 7 codons from the genome to render human biology impervious to all existing viruses.
kanzure: i should not claim to be related to the codon recoding, it's a subproject that was not proposed by me
shinohai: Wherefore removal of condoms got us all in this mess
mircea_popescu: anyway. are you pursuing a microbiology phd or something kanzure ?
kanzure: i am not associated with academia
mircea_popescu: mkay. here's the problem : on one hand there's lieberman's very stern "forbidden to have course on nonsense" ; on the other hand people can't fucking help it that they're clueless on topics, and the sort of lulzy doodle nonsense sprouted by boetke is not HIS fault. that's, truthfully, how little we know of genetics.
mircea_popescu: this is an immense chasm, which will not see productive results in your lifetime. consequently the only options open to you are to either find something else to do ; or else go into welfare.
mircea_popescu: the ~only useful point of the state at this micro level is that it leaks tax money, enough so as to support hopeless research in fields not favoured by industry.
kanzure: is that a broad wlfare of survitude to wealthy patrons or what
kanzure: is fundraising == welfare?
mircea_popescu: patreon, gofundme or whatever. i forget what they're all called, angel list something.
kanzure: crowdfunding doesn't work (if the crowd had money then they wouldn't need crowdfunding)
mircea_popescu: in my view it worked superbly -- it made britney spears the LAST of these "stars" build out of mob spending power.
kanzure: she was not blessed by the noodly appendage of pre-fame wealth?
kanzure: no idea. what happened to you not remembering celebrities.
kanzure: "productive results" in my book include cheap genome synthesis, the results of which are easily in reach (engineers haven't even bothered to optimize inkjet firing rate. "boo hoo it overheats and we haven't tried cooling").
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 22:42 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, here asciilifeform i got one for you : drujba in romanian ? chainsaw. and because there was that whole 80s "ask a girl for her friendship" thingee, ... "he offered me his chainsaw".
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:29 BingoBoingo suggests sticking to the basics. P53 overexpression, Myostatin inhibition, and let the dice go on everything else
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 22:44 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703856 << moreover the "effects of loci" thing is rank nonsense of the level of "here's my thermometer-based debugging tool. who wants to measure cpu quadrant temperatures as software runs ???". there's no localisation in that sense.
kanzure: mircea_popescu: specifically do those causes just not interest you (health, lifespan, memory, gene therapy, etc), or is there some sort of confusion about actual feasibility, or what
mircea_popescu: kanzure i doubt there's much confusion re feasibility.
kanzure: certain things are more feasible than others. and there's a lot of morons out there causing lots of noise.
mircea_popescu: it's not that it's not feasible, it's that stretching your anus to accomodate trains is more feasible.
kanzure: so if your feasibility assessment is based on the stupid shit you've heard before, then that's understandable
kanzure: there's signal that provides information about negative results. that's not noise.
mircea_popescu: kanzure appreciate what you're saying here. "mp, you're spending millions to get bad intel". rly ?
kanzure: i'm not that far yet, i'm just saying "if your superpowers are limited to writing blog posts then i'm not sure what you have to offer"
kanzure: e.g. no knowledge of you spending millions on anything at all
phf: it is certainly because you haven't found the right pdfs
☟︎ kanzure: mircea_popescu: your blog posts offer something yes. or are you just babbling for no reason?
shinohai: Rich guys don't sit around in irc all day and make blog posts!
mircea_popescu: well, actually, i'm the authority here, definitionally what i'm saying can't be babbling. you've upgraded your argument from "your intel is broken" to tmsr dun werk, it's a very dubious trek.
mircea_popescu: take a more productive tack, like say something concrete.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:03 kanzure: "productive results" in my book include cheap genome synthesis, the results of which are easily in reach (engineers haven't even bothered to optimize inkjet firing rate. "boo hoo it overheats and we haven't tried cooling").
kanzure: authorities definitionally can't babble? show me how that works.
kanzure: asciilifeform: insufficient money i think. although this might be a bad reason. i could accept that. nobody calls me on this type of thing.
mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎ kanzure: well i'm not one to argue for inflated resources, sure
mircea_popescu: so far it's not altogether clear what specirfically you're arguing for tbh.
kanzure: no i'm still claiming your intel is broken
mircea_popescu: yes but unless you make falsifiable statements of value it's not very useful.
kanzure: dna is relevant. production of synthetic dna is relevant and feasible, even if nobody promises you shakespearen genomes on day 1.
kanzure: yes and then people made cheapo thermocyclers. what's wrong with that?
kanzure: (openpcr actually isn't that cheap. it's sort of annoying.)
kanzure: it's like adobe air + an arduino
mircea_popescu: phf the more amusing thing here is that only last week i was wondering where the 3d printing folk went.
kanzure: and then lasercut plywood because we're all hipsters and our eyes don't bleed
mircea_popescu: shit i wish we thought of this in the early days of "fpga mining".
kanzure: that pic was actually taken from a volunteer birdhouse assembly workshop
kanzure: anyway, the reason for "infeasibility" claims is because people try to do impossible things; there have not been infeasibility claims regarding genome synthesis or assembly.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how does it go around you know, polymerase getting destroyed ?
kanzure: asciilifeform: i rescued a silly open-source nanotech cad program from being deleted and forgotten. however, i did not fund its original development. is this the thing you're tlaing about?
https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer mircea_popescu: ahahahaha wait, they switched to termophillic bacteria polymerase ?! god help us.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i know. the problem with dna amplification with it is that (on tech i recalled) the required enzyme gets periodically destroyed.
kanzure: you insert the reagents at the start of the reaction, the polymerase is not a permanent component of the machine.
a111: Logged on 2013-12-10 01:49 asciilifeform: if i ever strike lucky, i'll write 'fairycad.' create magical gadgets, just need pixie dust fabricator.
kanzure: "normally the left derives semantic authority from threats of mob violence/witch hunts; what does mircea_popescu have?"
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:30 asciilifeform: kanzure: objective was to economically make (by the kg) a (modified) butyrylcholinesterase
mircea_popescu: you can get bacteria to do anything you want them to ; provided you want them to do something they were going to do already. gotta be a metabolic leftover.
kanzure: no i just fed it to my bioreactor person to see what he would design for me. butyrylcholinesterase proposal will be forthcoming.
phf: ah makes sense, for some reason i thought 3d printers went in the direction of spiroligomers, but hackerspace for which i was mocked is running a CRISPR project in their fridge so this is consistent
mircea_popescu: there's no great advantage for "a flying stegosaurus with poisonous spines on every bone!!" sorta videogame items.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's in the last link, re teh HeLa. << For further reading ask Hussein Bahamas about the trechery of Big Headed Yakub.
mircea_popescu: (speaking of which... if what you want is in the vein of yl-cholinesterase, maybe try engineering spiders ?
kanzure: "".. isn’t the only one working to clone a mammoth. There’s also Hwang Woo-suk’s Korean dog-cloning lab, Soaam Technologies [....] He was the one who claimed to clone human cells, but it turns out he had been forcing his students to donate their eggs, and secondly that his clone cells are fraudulent, so he’s trying to resurrect his reputation by being the first to clone ...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im strictly going by the above "woman will do anything you wanrt provided it is what she ewas goping to do anyway". afaik, spiders do actually make variants of it.
☟︎ kanzure: please clarify why apodicticity is not philosophical wankery
mircea_popescu: kanzure calling something "philosophicval wankery" is a political act, no different from saying niggers dun belong in civilised society.
kanzure: is "trying to figure out whether mircea_popescu is just babbling on a blog" also a "political act"?
kanzure: if this knowledge only enables you to feel alright about whatever cause passes your fancy for the moment then i would argue you're engaging in a lot of effort for a rather trivial outcome.
mircea_popescu: kanzure the trying to figure it out, no. the expecting i'll justify myself, yes.
kanzure: that's sort of rude isn't it. wouldn't it be less total noise to just answer instead of either one of us wasting our time?
mircea_popescu: also funny, if not funnier : apparently nature very much favours the republican outlook. "divide teh people into two groups. blender one for the choline, vx the other."
kanzure: i don't really care if it's "justified" by you, i care about correctly understanding
kanzure: you were arguing to me that directed effort is irrelevant (or something) so i'm trying to ascertain what your proposed alternative is
mircea_popescu: i was not arguing at you. we were examining your model together, and it came out unconvincing, and then we were left trying to make something of the pieces.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-07 20:17 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1639964 << one of the (~the~ ?) advantage of tmsr work for intelligent folk is that there isn't a braindamaged/choiceless manager in the loop going "i know it's stupid but it must be done".
mircea_popescu: you're more than welcome to go again, but you'll need a decent definition of effort and some sort of proof it's directable.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in practical terms i am politically powerful because i've successfully protected a bunch of smart people from idiocy for years, and they have the (pewrhaps unwarranted) expectation this may continue.
kanzure: you mean by (perhaps correctly) criticising everything right?
mircea_popescu: because the political power is a super-2 exponential on smarts, whereas cost is a logarithmic on stupidity, it's very easy to be powerful hanging out with smart people. almost as easy as it is to go bankrupt hanging out with many people.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's some work in the log re creating mechanical-mp, but mostly at the lulz stage.
kanzure: i am trying to ascertain what you exercise power for
kanzure: it's just how i work, i internalize things
mircea_popescu: power is a misnomer in any case ; it's arche as in greek not power as in latin.
mircea_popescu: and the bad notation makes you go into walls, as per "since it's power it must have goal"
kanzure: i'd settle for "observed tendencies or use of power that would probably fail without such power"
kanzure: you could safely argue it would look like a plot of the sha256 function against a graph, but i would also be surprised to hear that
☟︎ mircea_popescu: funny you should mention that, there's also a discussion re rng and power in teh logs.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 18:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you.
kanzure: alright so the argument is that to whatever extent there's a modellable aspect, that's a failure mode and not necessarily a preference
mircea_popescu: actually part of republican doctrine, there's no standard policies in all sorts of shocking places.
kanzure: so just hoard a bunch of power and don't provide much signal regarding its application or likely application. is this some sort of gmaxwell-level fear of "unintentionally causing others to agree with you, by unethically signaling to them an idea that they shouldn't have had in the first place" bullshit?
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:32 kanzure: jihan has been quite friendly so far
a111: Logged on 2017-08-09 00:40 asciilifeform: No one else did. Not theymos, not knighmb, not pirate, not silbert, not Jihan Wu. Not satoshi or asciilifeform.
mircea_popescu: kanzure i lean on people all the damned time, what are you talking about.
kanzure: bad abstract parse there. it ends half-way through.
mircea_popescu: lol "while this risk can not be avoided entirely... here's how im not giving up".
mircea_popescu: sane person would have stopped there. "this risk can not be avoided ; abandon du travail"
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:43 asciilifeform: kanzure: mike w promised myostatin inhibitor to me in 2007 !!1111 where is it ?!
mircea_popescu: yeah, and if they grow enough they'll push your eyes ouyt.