assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45813 @ 0.00042487 = 19.4646 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:29:33; jurov: from today's log i have learned that it's important to report *all* expenses, otherwise the "did this or that for free" arguments become another nail in the coffin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> phf: they never quite got to this point << i dun think this was the case either intended or implied.
mircea_popescu: obviously anyone reading is free to color what they read any way that suits them, but still.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:35:13; jurov: and also if the "trash disposal" fees were acknowledged, bitbet's precarious financials would be talked about and resolved much sooner
mircea_popescu: obody's thanking anyone for giving up his spleen to MAKE UP the ground on which he walks - it's just ground, a given, forget about it) you want to credit rather than charge, so as to give things a chance.
mircea_popescu: but yes, if you're curious, the reason i might blast at you when you go into a patented jurov tailspin while i'm simply bitchslapping him into oblivion is that you WERE here then, and your spleen is actually part of that same ground. and yes these things matter, at least to me.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93000 @ 0.00042675 = 39.6878 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:35:40; asciilifeform: would there even have been a marriage to divorce from ?
mircea_popescu: this is the same kakobrekla, you recall, who went on a trip to check out a hungarian asicminer on a day's notice, also in these very logs. the sort of rationality of old people is not particularly relevant to the young - and same is true of bitcoin.
jurov: apparently you intended bitbet as a tool to establish The Order in bitcoin, while kakobrekla unawares thought it's usual business
mircea_popescu: it is eminently difficult to reconstruct what people thought years ago ; famously - one can't actually do this for oneself, which is how proust got to be famous.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:39:47; phf: that was an answer to a solrodar's intentionally pointed question about costs of hosting vs. mp's "time", which was in term prompted by my attempt to understand how bitbet works
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432731 << this idea seems good in theory. in practice, this is exactly never happening. easier to understand why not, is to understand why there IS something categorically preventing a market in women ; like a supermarket where you go buy one. the ones that are above average have no incentive to participate - see the discussion about lemon laws and the death spiral except
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:47:25; trinque: there's nothing that precludes a market of v implementations categorically
mircea_popescu: which is why the only time a market in women exists is when it's maintained by significant outside force.
mircea_popescu: the interests of that force will never align with your naive market theory, and so no, categorically, market in v's isn't happening.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:48:11; jurov: well, that "someone" whose work "cannot be traded" still has to eat
mircea_popescu: or whatever, read the various bleeding heart reenaction about the fate of the proletarian in the pre-1900s.
solrodar: now that I see that kakobrekla has also agreed to liquidation, I am applying for the job of receiver
solrodar: obviously I'm not well known enough to be trusted with the site funds, so I have a proposal
solrodar: mircea_popescu would continue to hold them in trust, and agree to pay them out in accordance with my ajudication, unless that ajudication was rejected by (say) 10 people currently in assbot's L1
solrodar: whatever else he's been accused of, nobody's called him a thief
mircea_popescu: i'm sure somebody somewhere has, why not. anyway : what do you plan to do to maximize shareholder revenue from bitbet assets ?
☟︎ assbot: The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1phuhuR )
mircea_popescu: do you have any sort of particular assets that'd likely help ? prior experience in doing this sort of thing (selling online properties) ? connections or otherwise some power putting you above others in some way ?
☟︎ solrodar: firstly, that I might deviate from the seniority indicated there
solrodar: and secondly, that in the interests of settling this before the end of the year, I might choose to refund some bets rather than waiting for them all to resolve
mircea_popescu: i don't think you take my meaning. have you for instance ever auctioned a domain name successfully ? are you well known in those circles ? anything ?
☟︎ solrodar: I got your meaning, just catching up
mircea_popescu: well, what do you contemplate setting as a fee and what sort of time interval do you see this taking roguhly speaking ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.00042487 = 7.5627 BTC [-] {2}
solrodar: I would also provide a third-party verification that in my judgment the codebase for sale is complete and working
solrodar: for complete closure, 10 BTC, 2 months
mircea_popescu: ok, but in order for such a seal of approval to be worth something, you'd have to be known by someone neh ?
solrodar: asciilifeform inspected my previous work
mircea_popescu: well good, but i don't think he's buying. at any rate, so what do you plan to do to actually get cash out of the goods ? list them for sale somewhere ? simply run an auction here ? details help.
solrodar: I haven't sold anything of this nature before, but I have managed a number of domain names including one I bought at auction
solrodar: so I am familar with that field
solrodar: I think an external auction would provide the best price for the domain name
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432744 << this is a complicated proposition. the traditional avenue of the dedicated tramp is to join a group, liberally fuck anyone but the alpha of that group, insist that the alpha marry her. this presses a very strict choice on the alpha that's not trivially resolved - if he kills her everyone else loses a fuckdoll ; if he marries her he's fucked, not only stuck with
☝︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:48:47; trinque: it is not categorically impossible to buy your time
mircea_popescu: a wife but stuck with one that actually owns him. third options aren't really very easily accessible. so - no, don't make that assumption, it'll run you to ruin.
solrodar: for the codebase, potential buyers are likely to be fewer, so my initial thought would be to conduct the auction in #b-a with bidders solicited from forums likely to be interested
mircea_popescu: so you're going to try as a package first, then just the domain on a 2nd pass, and advertise this on forums - how many, which, do you have good standing accounts in any (which) or is this going to be just some drive-by spam thing ?
mircea_popescu: anyway - i appreciate your offer to help, and i don't think it can be summarily dismissed. it has its obvious weaknesses which you may consider improving.
solrodar: my personal standing is irrelevant, as interested buyers are likely to already be familiar with the site
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 20:51:39; asciilifeform: 'v' did not actually take very long to write.
solrodar: the proceeds would be paid to you and added to the pool
solrodar: I would suggest that the domain remains in kakobrekla's hands and temporarily pointed to an address under my control
mircea_popescu: i suppose the "what's the value of code" item is a very vague thing on the internet still huh.
solrodar: much less than the value of a going concern with a reputation
solrodar: which is why I think it's still in both of your best interests to sort this out between you
solrodar: I liked bitbet, I'd be sorry to see it go
☟︎ mircea_popescu: who was that guy anyway, famously told judge that "he can be born wherever he wants to!" ? painter, accused of passing off a "too shitty to be sold" painting, late us reverberation of the school wars.
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 01:12:32; solrodar: I liked bitbet, I'd be sorry to see it go
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432761 << it's entirely unclear to me what you think this'd do. let's work an example. you sign up for one of those newfangled internet thingees. provider sells you it, you meet the girl of your dreams in australia, keep in daily email touch. provider hikes the rate. you... what, go to a judge, to order the provider to charge you less ? not something the judge can do - an
☝︎ mircea_popescu: d if he tries, they'll disconnect your thing an hour a day. at which point what, you go to your congressman to sponsor a law making it illegal for provider to disconnect shitty users ? are we trying to rebuild the great nation of america or something ? would be cheaper to just go with the one extant.
mircea_popescu: a judge may decide what a contract means if there's dispute between the parties, which here is what the [judge] sindic aka receiver is going to do anyway. other than that - he can't order for "the world" to satisfy any party's perceived comfort, no matter how dressed up.
mircea_popescu: i'm aware that they do these weird "can't throw X people off premises" in the us, but the excision of that sort of nonsense is no small part of what tmsr is all about.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:00:41; phf: jurov: but overall, all that is for us to figure out, yeah? the "judge" in this case is one of our peers, can look at what transpired, present an opinion, "it is the opinion of this judged, having considered all facts available, that mp done goofed". mp can go "well fuck you judge", you can go "that's a fair assessment", negrate mp and move on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00042549 = 13.0625 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: what's next, you know, ima negrate trump for not voting kanish or w/e that ohio derp's name is.
mircea_popescu: (and since we're on it, this important point seems perhaps lost and is still paramount : "It is important to remember that the score associated to a relationship does not mark the direct trust of the scorer for the scoree, but merely the scorer's confidence that the information he has about scoree is correct, accurate, relevant and complete. All four." from the ever-fascinatingly counterintuitive
http://trilema.com/201 mircea_popescu: 4/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/#footnote_4_53927 )
mircea_popescu: which is how and why chetty's passing bumped her trust in my eyes to 10 : not because she's "very good" now, but because she lacks any further capacity to surprise anyone. at least so goes the logic.
☟︎ solrodar: bbl, will keep an eye on the logs
adlai catches up on 6mo logs, should take Two Weeks(tm)(s)(r), give or take a halving~~
mircea_popescu: at least is better than waiting in traffic listening to dayradio.
BingoBoingo: The problem to selling in a way that maximally recoups value is my chief barrier to bidding. Hard problem I have little experience or connections to do.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:02:38; asciilifeform: jurov: i suspect that if you were to suggest to mircea_popescu that a group of lordz could, or ought to, make a collective decision, he would break out in hives and barf
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo every day we discover another planet the republic must build eh ?
mircea_popescu: moreover, and more importantly, if you give over to the government the franchise to interpret private agreements, you provably construct a government even more far reaching than the welfare state, sitting in ~an equivalent position of the miner cartel but for contracts, and soon to issue "licenses to contract" or somesuch insanity.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously. I have suspicions on how this could be done, but... given the necessary ugliness in this sort of brokering solrodar's bid seems awfully cheap.
mircea_popescu: (perhaps this is obivous to me only for some god-forsaken reason, but the next step after the view on the bitcoin protocol that it permits miners to arbitrarily reject txn and the collusion of miners is - you gotta get a license to bitcoinate. why hardfork to increase their revenue, even.)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (and this being future china, you'll be getting six addresses or somesuch, typed out on paper. with misprints.)
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:02:48; phf: instead the solution is what? to spend a bunch more days repeating same positions over and over again until you leave in disgust, people who are already on the mp side are galvanized, etc.?
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:03:36; asciilifeform: phf: sadly this is prolly how it will go. at least no mexican ice pick is yet involved.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432792 << perhaps the darkest voodoo involved in all of this, and one which i openly confess i struggled with for the entire interval and never managed to even comprehend let alone do a iota towards breaking was - that there seemed to be ~infinite ammount of bitcoin ready to COVER bets, but very little interest to fund them. somehow, for some reason, even with the strict
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:16:41; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: one of the problems is that apparently it was already not being carried.
mircea_popescu: knowledge that you can drop 1, 10 or 1000 bitcoin on an arbitrary proposition and be covered fairly, people did not wish to do so!
☟︎ mircea_popescu: it STILL boggles my mind that this was the case ; but the case it was. and weren't it the case - bitbet'd be to this day and forever swimming in a pool of dough.
mircea_popescu: because yes, the thing as it worked is STILL a major improvement over traditional gambling anything, and there's no sane reason i could possibly see that bitbet wouldn't carry a majority of the world's 10bn to 1 trn dollars worth of yearly prop betting.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:13:56; asciilifeform: also it is not clear to me what the folks in the dispute actuall want.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:17:09; asciilifeform: given as it was structured in such a way that ANY unexpected ding would destroy it utterly unless carried by that month's profit.
BingoBoingo wonders what if any L1 or L2 interest in bidding for BitBet software/domain is out there
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:19:16; jurov: asciilifeform: one ought to try to value everything. otherwise end up looking hungry to these pies
mircea_popescu: they get good results in different fields but a) they're alwyas approximations and b) none of them even cover the whole field - not in the sense of being close but in the sense of EVER OFFERING a value function that may take any inputs.
mircea_popescu: so, like it or not, it is still very much a research project for the human race.
mircea_popescu: trinque's very basic notion above about "categorically your time" thing is just an axiomatic (if erroneous) pillar supporting one of these methods.
mircea_popescu: and yes - for as long as pick one and you carefully sit under its umbrella, never leaving that domain "it works for me!". except we're in bitcoin specifically to see what's out there.
mircea_popescu: one should prolly look through eulora logs for some lulzy examples re the failure of the auction - the free market's revered, holy relic of a chief tool. guess what ? it... doesn't work!
mircea_popescu: (none of this is to say that one ~oughtn't~ try. sure, one ought to try. but also understand that this is exactly like "one ought to try and fuck every woman that can walk within his visual radius". in a veeeheheheheeery theoretical principle, sure. in practice - there is such a thing as penis friction blisters.)
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:21:59; asciilifeform: bbet was ~the~ bet machine, as far as i'm concerned, fwiw, and now there is none.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:23:52; asciilifeform: i suspect that mircea_popescu would rather burn it than let it go to hitler.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432824 << suppose instead of runnign off to some sort of centralism, you just use the tools available ? they're here for this purpose ; you've seen them at work. gossipd didn't come out of the void, but out of practice based on philosophy honed with practice built on philosophy and so on and again numerous iterations over the years.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:26:03; phf: jurov: you're right, there's not much that can be done as far as bickering. i find some of the positions rather petty or outright alarmist, but i can't keep people from talking. i'm only thinking that an arbitration procedure could produce tldr that at the very least will focus the attention.
phf: mircea_popescu: jurov pointed out the error of my ways, but i believe that i might've accomplished what i was fumbling for already
mircea_popescu: ytou'll have to excuse me, i run parsed not compiled logs.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, what's the consensus of code wizards, compiled >>> parsed ?
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:44:17; asciilifeform: anyway my original point was that much of what we think of as 'tmsr economy' is not actually tmsr in any reasonable sense of the word, in that it is not effected by folks having a wot presence, nor does it even have so much as iceberg tip in the public forum.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:44:51; assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 19:10:37; asciilifeform: the failure of such a miner to exist is a game-theoretical smoking gun.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 21:47:54; asciilifeform: phf: from rereading the logz, seems like mircea_popescu admits this, even.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 22:07:26; phf: jurov: i wonder if there are referees besides kako and mp. owners got at least 75btc each plus sales of shares, plus payouts from unsold shares.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 22:22:18; phf: but as an advertisement platform for mpex and steady stream of income for investors i don't see ~anything~ wrong with bitbet. my current interpretation is that a lot of various people overreacted and a sure thing was killed.
phf: mircea_popescu: 50% non-transferable shares split between owners, about 301btc in profit?
mircea_popescu: ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: tho eulora is slowling clawing itself from underwater. but the usual vc crapolade is nowhere near bitbet, or where bitbet was in its first month.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 22:59:52; mats: asciilifeform: 'SuperH'
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2016 13:49:06; mircea_popescu: "noisehole, bullshitter, blowhard, drunkard, sadist, rapist, all-around disgrace to the sad sad State of Bitcoin (and a passive-aggressive plagiarist, too, to top a cherry on the shit-pan-kake!)" da fuck did you do adlai !
mircea_popescu: "superb how". freudian slip of all time, alf would like a workable dasmer.
mircea_popescu: specifically - who did you hurt for pleasure and what text did you steal.
adlai: i hurt my 'reputation', for my own pleasure (and that of lurkers), and got the private keys stolen from under me fingers. oh well.
adlai finds that he has nothing further constructive to add to the bitbet receivership saga; wishes mircea_popescu and kakobrekla best of luck resolving it in shareholders' best interests.
adlai: and 'solrodar' too, who has bigger balls than... who knows, maybe she wears them on her chest
adlai: i dunno, we're all a bunch of text here, except for the chicks that get their nickles one dime at a time
adlai for once, shuts himself up, to go sleep. putting preorders for morning popcorn, please keep the logs a-churnin (but do read them, too many idiots showing up here asking for summaries as though people are paid to write them)
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 23:25:56; kakobrekla: anyway imho it would be best for everyone for this mess to be cleared by me and mp - however while im making myself available in full capacity it seems to me mp is unwilling
kakobrekla: i dont see where time went but if you say so ... i cant do it alone.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19219 @ 0.00042487 = 8.1656 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 23:45:07; humanoidity: kakobrekla: on the technical issue that bit you guys (re-issuing a tx multiple times IIUC), and the conspiracy theories it spawned, I am wondering if you guys raised the issue with the devs to see if they reach the same conclusion ?
phf: i thought you guys used a valley startup to build it???
phf: like one of those ben_vulpes shops, $300k bezzle a website
mircea_popescu: no, bitbet was, at least the first incarnation, shivad together by kakobrekla in... whatr was it, two weeks or something, i don't recall exactly.
phf: i'm making fun of humanoidity's assumption that you guys need to go talk to devs elsewhere, by pretending to assume that bitbet was built in a very hackernews bezzel way, i.e. by outsourcing to an agile consultancy
phf: i've also been reduced to explaining lame jokes in log!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47700 @ 0.00042549 = 20.2959 BTC [+] {2}
hanbot:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432955 << not to get ahead of myself with you guys, but it seems to me that if these 17 btc were in fact the problem, then you acted reasonably by refusing to sign...whereas if a putative, later loss was the real problem here, a more reasonable approach might've been to sign this report, and work together to ensure that there won't be such a further monster.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 23:02:31; kakobrekla: whats next, he loses 170 btc next month and make bbet pay for it too?
kakobrekla: hanbot to me this was 'unforeseen' event even if mp did it deliberately (by his own words) - there is no way that one could foresee further unforeseen events
mircea_popescu: hanbot the problem with your take on what's reasonable is that the other reasonable view is to simply say that everything's fine, nothing's wrong and there isn't nor could ever be any cause for expenditure, alarm or ultimately death. in principle this is a view that can not be dislodged, every living thing's expectation to live forever in a functional world is, misguided or not, nevertheless part and parcel of biology.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: phf: it's 400k for a mobile app if you bring your own designer, 50-200k if we design it, 10-40k for a single-purpose webapp with minimal frills and if you need a website, well, squarespace is over there. heck, they even do ecomm, and better than any wordprex.
phf: this is almost the opposite of what my previous company would charge
ben_vulpes: phf: i clearly have no business being in business.
phf: ben_vulpes: i suspect they don't know what they are doing
ben_vulpes: saving people from software is mostly thankless and rewardless.
ben_vulpes: phf: that's an advantage. i can't fleece people effectively with software, being too honest.
ben_vulpes: "are you sure you wouldn't rather secure a loan with that 50k and set up a shop on squarespace?"
ben_vulpes: "great idea! i guess we don't need any custom software after all."
ben_vulpes too depressed about lemon markets to dance for old men and 'rounds' this quarter, probably ever
ben_vulpes: on only a tangentially related topic, when do we get the B.H.-style AN1 that retains all earnings /in/ the corp?
phf: ben_vulpes: you can't trick me, i've been to portland, and i gotta tell ya, there's not much starving going on there
assbot: Accounting for the nonzero asset corporation. The MPEx standard. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1UuNpRO )
mircea_popescu: ("but hey mp, you should have moved bitbet to this or something!" "yes yes, aren't you a great visionary, man from the future.")
ben_vulpes: "assetti null" or some such well-coined whatever.
mircea_popescu: just a spot of bitter retrospective jewish humour isall.
ben_vulpes: something must be on the books for there to be any book value, etc.
ben_vulpes: anyways phf, yes, alphabet corp friends and acquaintances are all having a grand party with the low cost of living.
ben_vulpes: 'tis not quite yet a place where one makes 130k predicated on 140k in living expenses, more like 80k in living expenses.
ben_vulpes: the 'umble shoemaker, dedicated to sitting on his ass and never doing anything, will starve in this town until he turns to making fashionable shoes with heels and lace instead of the sturdy things in which men tromp through mud.
☟︎ phf: seems like most places
mircea_popescu: except those where alf lives and a permanent rain cloud rains bricks upon an acre centered on his head.
ben_vulpes: you don't *have* to do /anything/, mircea_popescu!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8391 @ 0.00042487 = 3.5651 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38842 @ 0.00042487 = 16.5028 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00042342 = 11.39 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00042327 = 14.2007 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23350 @ 0.00042349 = 9.8885 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18451 @ 0.00042327 = 7.8098 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38845 @ 0.00042327 = 16.4419 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39165 @ 0.0004228 = 16.559 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00042278 = 19.4902 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12037 @ 0.00042275 = 5.0886 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34073 @ 0.00042275 = 14.4044 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54721 @ 0.00042186 = 23.0846 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48611 @ 0.00042183 = 20.5056 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49382 @ 0.0004256 = 21.017 BTC [+] {5}
cazalla: vexual, snorera, w/e ya name is now, shoot me an email, u turned up in log search re: minelabs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00042318 = 5.057 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39483 @ 0.00042318 = 16.7084 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107450 @ 0.00042175 = 45.317 BTC [-] {9}
nubbins` checks his own pulse, attempts to catch up on logs
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 01:55:04; mircea_popescu: knowledge that you can drop 1, 10 or 1000 bitcoin on an arbitrary proposition and be covered fairly, people did not wish to do so!
nubbins`: the three major problems that beset bitbet were (a) mp was involved with it, (b) it had zero room for contingencies or unexpected expenses and (c) train-wreck PR
nubbins`: on its own, separate from these three things, great website, great idea. prolly would be thriving.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 17:38:00; asciilifeform: nubbins`: was it really meant to live only until the first disaster, however small? e.g., stolen server ?
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:26; phf: nubbins`: it's a shame that you chose this approach for your denouncement. some people are here (myself, maybe ascii) not to make money, but to fuck around with novel ways of doing things. it would've been nifty if, as a "lord" if you will, you picked up the game and made your accusations formal, maybe solicited a judge from the wot, made it interesting somehow! you don't have to obviously, but the approach tha
nubbins`: phf: "solicited a judge from the wot" is meaningless, unless you know something i don't.
nubbins`:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432301 << i also didn't think it was a worthwhile conversation to have, but i wasn't about to just watch mp make the ludicrous claim that bitcoin has been forked by a chinese mining cabal, ostensibly with the intention of tranferring all the suckers in this chan over to MPCoin, just because his 0-fee tx got bogged down.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:27; phf: nubbins`: i think it's a pointless to discuss (and takes away from the core of the issue) whether or not miners are conspiring against bitbet. ascii's been known to say that lizard hitler personally disconnected his node, nobody cared to pipe in then, because it's an established local way of talking and thinking (не веришь прими за сказку). miners are a cartel, they can collectively decide
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:28; phf: into a controversial protocol behavior, mp called it "miners are conspiring against bitbet". you can personally call mp stupid for that, but there's no "crime" there.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:30; phf: nubbins`: the core of the issue (the way i understand it) is whether or not mp can use personal funds to pay out bets, and whether he can later ask for those funds back from shareholders. that seems to contradict the contract, so the accusation goes, he's in breach of contract. seems simple enough.
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:33:32; phf: i think this question is receiving far less attention then the alleged miner collusion. i would've liked to see it approached through a judge (perhaps moon is a harsh mistress style "would you be our judge?"), a carefully constructed paper, an investigation, rather than bickering in logs. i think the question is also separate from receivership and is about ensuring that the rest of tmsr maintain a shared vision
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 16:40:41; PeterL: mircea_popescu what about the part of the listing that says shares will be paid out a minimum of 0.00001 ? If selling the domain+code does not cover the 17btc shortfall and this minimum, are you and kakobrekla expected to pay this out of pocket?
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2016 17:39:26; asciilifeform: i must agree with phf. and i think this is how nubbins` ended up killfiled by mircea_popescu, for the 'i speak for trees, for the trees have no tongues' thing.
mircea_popescu: assbot> Fire – The Anti-American Hate Narrative Of The Anakbayan << wait, wait, the anti-gaddafi hate narrative of the usg is not a "hate narrative" ?
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 02:35:50; mircea_popescu: ironcally, bitbet is not merely "a sure thing" - it's the only actually profitable, legit bitcoin business to date. THE ONLY.
mircea_popescu: in other news - something that appears as a legitimate outfit from rochester, new york ( thepremierpartners.com ) has apparently managed to lose control over its [email] servers, because they're now sending run of the mill "due bill.doc" spam but from
http://dpaste.com/2MV15W2 it seems to be actually sent by them.
nubbins`: nubs selling btc posters on the forums is a profitable, legit btc business by this definition.
cazalla: does this drama add to reduce the value of the limited edition posters you made nubbins`?
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 03:21:23; mircea_popescu: hanbot the problem with your take on what's reasonable is that the other reasonable view is to simply say that everything's fine, nothing's wrong and there isn't nor could ever be any cause for expenditure, alarm or ultimately death. in principle this is a view that can not be dislodged, every living thing's expectation to live forever in a functional world is, misguided or not, nevertheless part and
nubbins` idly wonders if hanbot saved or spent all her mpoe-pr wages
cazalla: imma suggest it might raise the value given some may have been now destroyed, so fewer copies remain out there
nubbins`: cazalla FWIW i'm selling another run of posters right now, and i bumped up the price by about 50%
nubbins`: sold 8 so far, which should pay for the entire run of 100 plus a couple of prime rib roasts
nubbins`: i rarely dabble in retail sales, but when i do, it's generally worth it
cazalla: diff ones or a second run of that bitcoin game you made?
nubbins`: cazalla same text, updated design. yin/yang sort of duality
cazalla: did you mention this earlier? don't recall reading it in logs
cazalla: that original one would've been nice to frame and hang on the wall in this room in hindsight
nubbins`: cazalla the20yearircloud has about 40 of them in his closet, ask him for one
nubbins`: TECSHARE on the forums bought something like 10 of them too, and he fucking hates me, so he might sell you one
cazalla: were they not meant to be distrubted by the20year along with btc vouchers or something from memory?
nubbins`: yes, each one has a voucher for 0.1 btc, at mp's direction. he later rescinded the offer
nubbins`: i think he got mad because a bunch of poor renters who don't own computers weren't able to find the time to get on irc, find #b-a, take a photograph of themselves holding a sign, set up a btc wallet, &c &c &c &c &c
assbot: 3 results for 'elbow* button from:asciilifeform' - #bitcoin-assets search
nubbins`: did karpeles elbow a button when he deployed test code to gox production servers?
☟︎ nubbins`: did goat elbow a button when he pushed pirate-backed assets?
☟︎ cazalla: thestringpuller, it's only 11:30pm here
cazalla: thestringpuller, you're up early?
thestringpuller: not early enough though. i should have been in office about an hour and half ago, but whatever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27000 @ 0.00042602 = 11.5025 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00042501 = 16.7241 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00042501 = 7.9902 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: in the "i bet you don't understand what the bayesian approach to spam filtering turned into pretend-ai after its failure to filter spam" means for your country : the next step is for most all the jobs that are still left to be replaced by this kind of ai - it's cheaper. so you go to the hair salon and you get a hairdo - 80% of the time. hey, accidents happen, here's a free coupon for another one. and yes, you want a we
☟︎ mircea_popescu: bsite made ? no problem. 72% of the time it even works!
mircea_popescu: you ARE willing to pay 50% of the money for a 72% item, and so there it is.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98350 @ 0.00042177 = 41.4811 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: obviously, you won't be having any money at all to pay for anything at all on the grounds of not being born rich and there not being any further jobs at all; but whatevs, the consumer has got what it came to expect.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19598 @ 0.00042414 = 8.3123 BTC [+] {3}
PeterL: nubbins` I was under the impression that bitbet shares get either a part of the sale of assets or 0.00001, whichever is higher, are you saying they get both?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45500 @ 0.000421 = 19.1555 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.0004232 = 4.1474 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 12:31:44; nubbins`: did karpeles elbow a button when he deployed test code to gox production servers?
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 12:33:48; nubbins`: did goat elbow a button when he pushed pirate-backed assets?
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 13:22:03; mircea_popescu: in the "i bet you don't understand what the bayesian approach to spam filtering turned into pretend-ai after its failure to filter spam" means for your country : the next step is for most all the jobs that are still left to be replaced by this kind of ai - it's cheaper. so you go to the hair salon and you get a hairdo - 80% of the time. hey, accidents happen, here's a free coupon for another one. and
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 13:22:14; mircea_popescu: you ARE willing to pay 50% of the money for a 72% item, and so there it is.
jurov: then why central planners allowed win 3.x to happen? everyone was supposed to run X11 over dialup!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74600 @ 0.00042075 = 31.388 BTC [-] {5}
thestringpuller: hahahaha! what a familiar feeling. if internet goes out at small shop that does "web dev", everyone pretty much goes home.
thestringpuller: except the most resilient who set up the "web environment" on the LAN and then do dev that way.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00042051 = 26.7865 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00042051 = 9.5876 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00042051 = 17.7876 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 01:03:18; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432744 << this is a complicated proposition. the traditional avenue of the dedicated tramp is to join a group, liberally fuck anyone but the alpha of that group, insist that the alpha marry her. this presses a very strict choice on the alpha that's not trivially resolved - if he kills her everyone else loses a fuckdoll ; if he marries her he's fucked, n
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 01:34:13; mircea_popescu: which is how and why chetty's passing bumped her trust in my eyes to 10 : not because she's "very good" now, but because she lacks any further capacity to surprise anyone. at least so goes the logic.
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 01:45:38; mircea_popescu: (perhaps this is obivous to me only for some god-forsaken reason, but the next step after the view on the bitcoin protocol that it permits miners to arbitrarily reject txn and the collusion of miners is - you gotta get a license to bitcoinate. why hardfork to increase their revenue, even.)
ben_vulpes: "the blob is like 10kb -- is that too much?"
ben_vulpes: i cannot imagine what is going on over there.
ben_vulpes: holmes i can read 10mb of json into memory naively and not even begin to sweat the phone.
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 02:28:33; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432848 << for the record, this is a lot weaker than it seems, for reasons discussed but perhaps worth repeating : it is so trivial to transform all txn into a high/low-S of one's choosing, that there exists no actual barrier due to it.
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 03:49:42; ben_vulpes: the 'umble shoemaker, dedicated to sitting on his ass and never doing anything, will starve in this town until he turns to making fashionable shoes with heels and lace instead of the sturdy things in which men tromp through mud.
phf: ben_vulpes: i dunno, i've seen some pathological cases in json readers, "too nesty" at 10kb could be one of them
phf: also might consider "too dopey", "too sleepy" and "too sneezy"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3967 @ 0.00042051 = 1.6682 BTC [-]
jurov: JsonParserExceptionTooTesty
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 16:34:43; asciilifeform: operator would ritually take out, re-seat the cards, kick the thing, etc.
phf: i've been to education conferences, and i hafta tell ya, it's not very good
mircea_popescu: (institutul de tehnica de calcul, one of cluj's tallest buildings, certainly its only proper office building for a few decades (complete with cubicals!) and one of the places where ro was going to be defended informationally from the us!)
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 16:40:39; asciilifeform: from the pov of the 1970s central planner lizards, the turn from 'pay per cpu cycle' timesharing phyootoore to personal comp was a mistake
mircea_popescu: shoot as many as you'd like, the sort of sniveling cur that'd become a preacher is abundently provided by the perl cunt.
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 16:44:44; asciilifeform: already i work in a shop where the modem hiccups and 80% work - stops...
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 18:18:07; asciilifeform: what's it got to do with time..?
mircea_popescu: the fact that this model exists and is of anthropological relevancy proves that yes, categorically impossible.
phf: BingoBoingo: i've not read the article yet, but truth is, i'm yet to meet a teacher at a conference who's at all qualified to teach computing to kids. at best the approach is entirely experiental, "when you see a tiger^W^Wa popup, you should run away^W^Wcall a teacher" or "
https stands for secure!", and the educational tooling is at best an inferior rip off of Scratch but more likely a scattershot gamification of hodge podge algorithmic
phf: concepts "IF you see a wall THEN turn left!"
mircea_popescu: when i was a kid, computing class consisted of prince of persia.
mircea_popescu: i am unpersuaded better curricula could have been devised.
BingoBoingo: phf: The qntra is actually being written on a medical topic, but I was googling the "war on computing" link and was pleasantly surprised when qntra was #1
mircea_popescu: of course, meanwhile usability and friendliness and utf and reddit happened, so that no longer works.
phf: prince of persia would be a step up from the "haaweeey kids i'm ratty the friendly rat and i'm going to teach you, 15 year old adults, about long division. it's haaaaard!"
mircea_popescu: ~1/3 of the kids figured out how to give themselves infinite lives by trashing the ram.
BingoBoingo in k-12 watched computer training degrade from turtle graphics on Apple II, to adobe dreamweaver/flash on Crapple OSuX
mircea_popescu: INCLUDING a variant which worked on peek and poke in gwbasic.
mircea_popescu: i guess the point i'm getting at is that teaching technology is always and everywhere a secondary concern to the human quality of they being taught.
phf: i've been coding gwbasic on my libretto. i remember a bearded su closed research facility forth guy was telling me "basic rots the brain, man, we get these developers who are forever ruined, i tell you" that was in 96. i wonder what he thinks of present crop...
mircea_popescu: only to implement gotos by another name in everything all the time
phf: the purity of scheme continuations! so they let you move execution context into an arbitrary location in the past? yeah! congratulations, you just implemented haf a goto
mircea_popescu: like it or not - the prince of persia curricula is how a country the size of oregon ended up providing half the engineers hired by microsoft.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo incidentally, since you're maybe the only guy here that actually gas re us politics : admitting for the sake of this argument that trump really is the you know, tell-it-how-it-is, fight back against the system independent bla bla : what does the fact that he isn't making "electronic votes are not a sufficient way to settle this election" a central part of his campaign ?
phf: i started my purposeful computing education by accidentally nuking windows 95 install while trying to get rise of the triad to work!
mircea_popescu: you'd expect the anti-lizard fellow to be anti-diebold definitionally and before anything else. "either paper trial or no vote took place",
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: My position is and continues to be that Trump is merely and agent of Clinton
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo on the basis of that tidbit alone you'd be logically correct.
jurov: lol so then my education was started by trying to free conventional memory by moving a virus to the highmem
BingoBoingo: Anyways I cast my ballot on paper that was machine read.
BingoBoingo ended up voting for the creepy cuban cowboy in the absence of useful polling data
BingoBoingo: Useful would have broken Illinois down by congressional district.
BingoBoingo also seriously considered voting Bernie for the lulz
phf: jurov: HIMEM.SYS is where it all began
assbot: A Werewolf Problem in Central Russia: Victor Pelevin, Andrew Bromfield: 9780811218603: Amazon.com: Books ... (
http://bit.ly/1RMsuVC )
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phf: soviet joke. americans purchase a sukhoi airplane from soviets, comes in parts, there's assembly instructions though. so they go through the process, result is a working tractor. wtf. they break it down, assemble again, tractor again. so they call russian, "wtf, tried assembling all we get is a tractor", su responds "please read fine print, `the product needs to be finalized with a judicial application of hammer and file`"
jurov: maybe he really meant murican lawyers should do it
mircea_popescu: in other news, i'm kinda curious what comes of this danielpbarron blog in the end.
mircea_popescu: "Yea so you are an idiot. There’s no need to comment and make these shitty articles. Who are you to determine what “false churches” are? Religion is something an Indevidul believes in. It is what the said person puts their faith and trust in. I just think you should read up and do your research before posting nonsense. Thanks."
BingoBoingo: I suspect it will have to graduate from a pogo to an "edgerouter lite" sometime in the next few months.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Or he'll have to graduate from Wordpress and lead #b-a to a new blogware planet
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda waiting for the lulzy moment when "the community" decides he's you know, religious nut bla bla, then it's revealed he hangs out just fine with flaming iconoclasts such as yours truly, famous stake-in-butt practitioners like alf, sunni muftis like yourself, cascadians and what other scandalous outrages there be in this here menagerie
mircea_popescu: it's only THEM that don't get along, it's not about him.
jurov: and *gasp* roman catholics
☟︎ mircea_popescu: those are heretics even according to the orthodox (which literally says - TRUE FAITH. in the name!)
BingoBoingo: Oh, crap! I didn't realize I'd become muslim
BingoBoingo: I thought it involved collecting more devil worshipping redheads than I've managed to cage
BingoBoingo: I guess #b-a is the most ecumenical religious gathering around
mircea_popescu: btw danielpbarron here's a nice idea for article : step by step guide to run your own wp on pogo.
mircea_popescu: in other news, holy shit selma hayek's an obnoxious, annoying bitch.
mircea_popescu: i saw it in frieda and i thought it's prolly the role, right ?
mircea_popescu just watched the velocity of gary, holy shit she has no problems regular whippings wouldn't have fixed long ago.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi who told the dumbass that sort of behaviour is independent or whatever the fuck she thinks it is.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the first ten-fifteen minutes are not bad, for the sheer deluge of omnisexual crazy.
mircea_popescu: the credits certainly look like a 70s sexploitation thing ; music idem.
assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 10:43:46; mircea_popescu: in any case we should prolly have a strategy discussion here. paging mod6 asciilifeform jurov trinque phf an' the other interested parties.