log
▁▁▁▁▁▁⏐▁
asciilifeform: and thereby force the use of secondary stack
mircea_popescu: ha!
asciilifeform: just as easily it is possible to give it a 'here's an empty string of length L to take a shit into, for each cmdline param, and if the actual exceeds it, trigger constrainterror'
trinque cheers
asciilifeform: dunno why i didn't think of it earlier
mircea_popescu: malicious ? :D
asciilifeform: well i have nfi , but it entirely needlessly drags along the secondarystack thing
asciilifeform: it sits on the edge between outright wrecking and simple down's syndrome
ben_vulpes: i had to laugh last night; someone at the table wanted to stake out the position that "people with downs syndrome aren't defective. you can't have defective humans!"
asciilifeform: here's the original, appreciate the horror : https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/a-comlin__adb.htm + https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/a-comlin__ads.htm
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're missing the point. perhaps the reason YOU didn't think about it before is that YOU are malicious ?
mircea_popescu: or perhaps people just don't think of things.
asciilifeform: and new orders from moscow, were to think of it, lol
asciilifeform: at any rate i dun presume to distinguish.
asciilifeform: here's the trisomy artifact itself : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PlehJ/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: would make a pretty great sf/steampunk/altsovietrealism item
asciilifeform: i'ma paste , for the hall of fame:
asciilifeform: declare
asciilifeform: Arg : aliased String (1 .. Len_Arg (Num));
asciilifeform: begin
asciilifeform: Fill_Arg (Arg'Address, Num);
asciilifeform: return Arg;
asciilifeform: end;
asciilifeform: this is the , in mircea_popescuine parlance, 'hole where the night came in'
asciilifeform: if you return a String, that's 2ndarystacktronic . no escape.
asciilifeform: ( the 2ndarystack is used to keep around the lengths of this variable-length turd that got thrown on the primary. )
asciilifeform: and hats off to the 1st reader here who immediately thought, reading the ads earlier, 'wtf does it mean and who ever heard of ~removing~ arguments from cmdline ?!'
asciilifeform: it's like encountering a toilet with a reverse gear, is what this is.
asciilifeform: what was author thinking...
mircea_popescu: ahaha
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: dare i ask at what sort of table
mircea_popescu: that's a great image
ben_vulpes: just my dinner table
ben_vulpes: a few short seconds later the same person practically pulled a 'halt and catch fire' when attempting to use a word that doesn't mean broken to describe f. ex. chromosomal abnormalities
ben_vulpes: not even use, but locked up trying to find
ben_vulpes: it's wildly entertaining watching people thrash in their own contradictions
ben_vulpes: "humans can't be defective!" "well what do you call it when they're missing a chromosome, eh?"
mircea_popescu: it's not defective, it's effective!
asciilifeform: aaaaand here: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tPv4l/?raw=true << is the tentative pill.
asciilifeform: ^ used in place of , rather than in addition to, Ada.Command_Line
asciilifeform: it relies , as is obvious , on the guts of gnat's main() initializer, that sets the turds . but in so far as i can tell , it is the same in all known gnats
asciilifeform: if anyone knows otherwise, plox to write in.
asciilifeform: aaand if anyone can think of a less revoltingly-tasting pill, plz to also write in.
asciilifeform: ( there is not, notably, any possibility of a pill that dun force cpointerism ; as gnatv is at birth a cpointeristic turd )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: grep http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ilkka.txt for 'Adagietto'
asciilifeform: on subj.
asciilifeform: '...this linguistic battle is inherently non-winnable, as can be seen from how every term that was originally meant to be non-offensive, such as “moron”, “retarded” and “imbecile”, always became a schoolyard insult in short order. ... This is inevitable because the underlying reality that these words refer to is horrifying, and everyone can see how bad it would be to get hit on the head ...'
asciilifeform: '...Accepting or rejecting this phenomenon marks a fundamental divide between those who believe that words create reality, versus those who believe that objective reality exists and operates independently of how we happen to speak and think about it.'
ben_vulpes: the real fun is in asking "what word do you want me to use instead?" and then using it in such a way that all the partizans wince, knowing that word means The Bad Thing now.
ben_vulpes: in other top notch lolz, the redhat "totp" ios "app" does not provide for backing up the shared seeds.
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: i had nfi this existed
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yr defectively steeped in security theater
asciilifeform: only ever encountered google's variant of this idiocy
ben_vulpes: here i was, thinking that a redhat product would have features like 'backup'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: naturally they'd rather lusers not have 'lift the seekrit out of the pnoje' button, or they'll push it and write on postitnote
ben_vulpes: im astonished this idiocy made it past the enterprise sales people; 'IT will want to know how to back these codes up'
ben_vulpes: or 'IT will want to know how to upgrade users devices without revoking every key and leaving accounts 'unsecured' during the TOTP rotation"
asciilifeform: why would the admin want to back it up ? if luser luses his pnoje, he goes to beg and be issued new code, neh
asciilifeform: who the fuck 'backs up' per-luser pw.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why wouldja give all of the monkeys one shared key?!
phf: ben_vulpes: before i finally gave up my ios, i was using pythonista for almost everything, including totp. there's some python totp implementation that i lifted from somewhere, that can be easily ported. i gave up writing a barcode recognizer, though it's not a particularly daunting task with numpy
ben_vulpes: phf: oh that's nifty
ben_vulpes: i guess this is new as of the lifted ban on interpreters and compilers?
asciilifeform: yea i missed this
phf: pythonista has been around for a while. it's literally the only useful application for the iphone
asciilifeform still doesn't get why one would program ~on~ ipnoje
asciilifeform: ~for~ it, i can even picture, nintendomarket, etc. but ~on~ ?!
phf: both times i wrote anything on pythonista was when i was traveling without a computer, and i do it semi-recreationally. with automatic indentation and completion it's not particularly painful, if the goal is to get some interesting computations going, rather then you know "programming environment". it's more of a turtle kind of exercise
asciilifeform: aa sorta how asciilifeform sometimes travels with a hp48
asciilifeform: that makes moarsense.
asciilifeform: phf: i've always wondered if it is possible to make a 'programming toy' proggy for touchpnojes that actually makes productive use of the fingers , rather than torturing user with simulated kbd
phf: one thing i wrote that i was really happy with is a very simple gps coordinates to atlas grid mapper. the thing would basically draw a rectangle with atlas grid number, like p34 A7 and inside the rectangle it'll draw a large red dot which roughly indicates where in the quadrant you are. i was using it extensively on a trip through alaska, because the toy catches gps readily, but naturally can't catch internet connection. so it was a kind of navigation
phf: aid
asciilifeform: something like interlisp's structureeditor, perhaps
asciilifeform: neato, notbad
asciilifeform: on subj : asciilifeform also wonders if anybody's 'liberated' google et al's spysat jpgs
asciilifeform: for offline use.
asciilifeform: primo use of a good spam-ip farm
phf: would make for a lovely torrent dump
asciilifeform: there's no particular reason why one couldn't put it all on sd card and make passive pocket maptron.
phf: because their maps are certainly shit for any kind of navigation that's not by road.
asciilifeform: ( and the oblig. terrain-tracking icbm... )
asciilifeform: forget the street maps, speaking of raw photo
phf: right
ben_vulpes: let's just continue with the apple idiocy: "try the new safari! fast, energy efficient, and with a beautiful new design."
ben_vulpes: energy efficient, dontchaknow!
ben_vulpes: probably tastes great with a dash of "selectively run js load from google.com, facebook.com after everything else because trackers are js dogs"
phf: major reason i gave up ios is because getting a working connection proxy requires a full blown vpn going
ben_vulpes: phf: rocking the 'mp01' or what
phf: jesus what the fuck is this
phf: no, one sec
phf: samsung sgh-t139
ben_vulpes: ah looks like a classic
ben_vulpes: how's the t9?
asciilifeform: speaking of this, anybody know of a 'dumb' pnoje that has whitelists ?
asciilifeform: apparently none made in ~decade
asciilifeform: i was buying one, for someone else, not long ago, and ended up with ye olde 'razr'
asciilifeform: astonishing how such elementary feature is unknown today. i.e. 'NO ring unless one of numbers N1, N2, ... Ni'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: hey, t9 implementations suck now too. no auto-updating dictionary, statistic-based wordguessing...
asciilifeform: i'd buy a pnoje that supports... morse input
asciilifeform: fuck t9.
asciilifeform bbl
ben_vulpes: you're happier hammering each numpad up to three times for a single letter?
phf: ben_vulpes: t9's not bad, it has an auto-updating dictionary which i only use for names, because it also amuses me to write like i'm from a different planet.
mod6: t9, lol
ben_vulpes: pretty tragic that one even has the basis to ask 'how bad is the t9', given how well it worked two decades ago.
phf: "a face book? i do not poses a face book, i have many regular books though!"
ben_vulpes: lol hah
ben_vulpes: i have developed an allergy to bending myself to fit my tools over the last four years; ios is one of the last bits of sand in me gears
phf: i recently threw out a perfectly working dual-sim nokia something or other, because i thought i lost the battery, but just yesterday i discovered that i had whole two batteries stored elsewhere.
phf: amusingly though http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-28#1214723☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-07-28 03:18 phf: asciilifeform: my point was that feature phones are not particularly good at their claimed purpose, that buying an old nokia is a hemingwriter, and compared to them iphone has a good sound quality.
phf: unlike the nokia though this t139 sound quality doesn't suck, so i retract my previous statements!
mircea_popescu: !!up cblgh
deedbot: cblgh voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: ahaha when did you show up
mircea_popescu: i've been here all day.
ben_vulpes: not you lol
phf: ben_vulpes: here's a phone for you https://www.ebay.com/itm/282003650097
ben_vulpes: anyways cblgh logs are in channel title, if you're going to not wash out at least register a gpg key with deedbot
ben_vulpes: phf: you know me so well
ben_vulpes: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOKIA-N90-Type-RM-42-Smartphone-Cellular-Collectible-GSM-Mobile-N-Series-Vintage/132438876949?epid=100040237&hash=item1ed5f8e315:g:MvYAAOSwDKtY2ZB1 << shit was my jam in 06
phf: you want to be ready for when "i don't have a smartphone" thing is in full swing in portland. you can be a full blown hipster avantguard
phf: haha, that's pretty cool, reminds me of transformers my parents brought me from amsterdam in the early 90s
ben_vulpes: a) don't live there or care too much about barista fashion anymore b) already lead that charge by toting the mp01 for a few months c) wake me up when "i don't have facebook" is actually popular
ben_vulpes: phf: total transformerphone
ben_vulpes: had display on the outside, could read texts without opening the thing. had google maps; internet over cell; a marvelous little device. great camera for the time as well.
ben_vulpes: actually just dug out some photos from that era, oh gracious me. macs with cameras were all the rage and boy howdy did we have fun taking photos of ourselves misbehaving.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, does anyone know how to beat a trb into coughing up the actual raw transaction it sent?
ben_vulpes: aside from dumping the mempool and parsing each?
mircea_popescu: suck it out of the add-to-mempool procedure
phf: you mean any and all transactions, or just wallet transactions you generated?
ben_vulpes: phf: the latter
mircea_popescu: anyway, in re smartphone, kids today have seriously diminished executive function, roughly speaking incapable of communicating in any manner other than arbitrary-app-reimplementing-irc
mircea_popescu: most of them are too anxious to actually answer a phonecall (too much pressure! i only talk to my parents!) ; most of them are actually unaware of the web as such.
mircea_popescu: let alone the internet.
mircea_popescu: in short, two thirds or so of the neet population would actually meet mongoloid criteria cca 1917.
ben_vulpes: even pantsuits know: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/
phf: ben_vulpes: you could hook somewhere like hereabouts http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/wallet.cpp#L1117 to open a new file and << wtxNew to it
mircea_popescu: neglect has destroyed a generation. when 50yos don't fuck 15yos culture takes a hike.
mircea_popescu: there;s relatively little to differentiate white teenager born 1990/2000s from african teenager born at any point. which i guess was the point, or something.
ben_vulpes: phf: i was thinking something in this area http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#L1320
ben_vulpes: and cwallettx has the kooky IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE so it should be possible to hex to stdout through the rpc machinery?
phf: yeah, it'll automagically serialize itself when you put it into stream (obviously not hex, but raw binary)
phf: that gettransaction code seems to do everything that you want, you could probably just have something like "dumptransaction <txid> <destination>" and then it'll write to destination (and bail if destination exists)
ben_vulpes: sure, could be reasonable to dump to <txid>.bin in my mind as well
ben_vulpes: s/could be/is/
ben_vulpes: eh, insufficiently explicit
phf: i think correct method would really be to get the transaction out as a binary array into shiva, and then have a transaction parser in shiva itself that'll break it down into a sexp or whatever
mircea_popescu: !!up BingoBoingo_
deedbot: BingoBoingo_ voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: phf: well i'd like to get something out of trb that i can dump into a txrelayulator
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone with a twitter acct still ?
shinohai: I got mine back mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: see if @bridneus wants to work for eulora ?
ben_vulpes: "A federal judge declared a mistrial wednesay in the riminal conspiracy case against rancher Cliven Bundy and three other defendants, saying government laywers suppressed key evidence..." https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/judge-declares-mistrial-in-case-against-rancher-cliven-bundy-sons-and-militiaman/2017/12/20/49d91c24-e5c8-11e7-a65d-1ac0fd7f097e_story.html
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755692 << think about it: no need to look at screen☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 00:54 ben_vulpes: you're happier hammering each numpad up to three times for a single letter?
asciilifeform: same reason why normal kbd is great, while 'virtual' is agony
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755730 << africans have problems talking ?!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 01:38 mircea_popescu: there;s relatively little to differentiate white teenager born 1990/2000s from african teenager born at any point. which i guess was the point, or something.
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, what is the context for the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755741 problem ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 02:17 ben_vulpes: phf: well i'd like to get something out of trb that i can dump into a txrelayulator
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755750 << consider http://trilema.com/2015/facebook-sends-traffic11eleven/#comment-123260 ; how do you distinguish wordmagic 1 from wordmagic2 as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755597 ?☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 03:53 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755730 << africans have problems talking ?!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 00:07 ben_vulpes: i had to laugh last night; someone at the table wanted to stake out the position that "people with downs syndrome aren't defective. you can't have defective humans!"
mircea_popescu: !!up Cerber248
deedbot: Cerber248 voiced for 30 minutes.
Cerber248: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODErlpxbbo: gribble lobbesbot de
Cerber248: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEuexlrbx: webbyz pete_dushenski ave1 lobbesbot kjj asciilifeform adlai whaack shinohai jhvh1 mats mod6 tb0t Framedragger
mircea_popescu: lol still ?
Cerber248: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODEgstuxett: gribble mimisbrunnr manamex whaack webbyz candi_l
mircea_popescu: !down Cerber248
mircea_popescu: !!down Cerber248
mircea_popescu: kinda old news.
mircea_popescu: what ~exactly~ is "complaining" gonna do ?
shinohai: I guess the world needed a spambot for that
mircea_popescu: african fucktards.
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16885.93, vol: 25794.54155397 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16841.0, vol: 67097.14176572 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16470.0, vol: 4690.64507853 | Volume-weighted last average: 16835.0431779
mircea_popescu: !~calc 20 / 16835.0431779
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 20 / 16835.0431779 = 0.001187998141059404
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755741 << I have been fighting stuck/slow transactions more frequently in the past month, leading to the last week where I have been completely unable to get connected nodes to take my txn.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 02:17 ben_vulpes: phf: well i'd like to get something out of trb that i can dump into a txrelayulator
trinque: the version number appears to be a factor which ends up isolating trb nodes, hypothesis being that the version number being set high invites nodes to insult the malleus patch.
trinque: my own nodes have begun lagging far behind the chain tip, other folks report the same.
trinque: for now, I can report that setting the version number to 50400, a trb node will catch back up, txns will unstick.
trinque: not a proposal for action, but those are my observations.
mircea_popescu: there was a lot of spam pre block 500k.
mircea_popescu: may alsoi be a factor.
trinque: was on 50000x, within 10 or so of top now, after version change and restart.
trinque: prior to that the lag was increasing every time I checked.
trinque will be comparing multiple test subjects.
trinque: and there's 500358
trinque: ah, and 9. topped out.
BingoBoingo: Spanish test a success. Was a wonderful opportunity to get forced into a prolongued stretch of not head translating. Thankfully the test was very patient and ergonomic.
BingoBoingo may have cheated a bit on the test leaning on the whole "animal magnetism" applied Trilema business.
BingoBoingo: The accent on the test though, the single most challenging encountered so far.
BingoBoingo: Cada dia, hacer algo por su Trilema. Lo trabaja cuando vos trabajas
diana_coman: congrats BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: tyvm
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16329.54, vol: 21602.60607456 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16248.0, vol: 59133.22186753 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16022.0, vol: 4129.91578854 | Volume-weighted last average: 16257.7579482
BingoBoingo also this morning returned to the consultora to sign more forms on the road to having a bank account.
BingoBoingo: And the data center has sent draft contracts to review
BingoBoingo: Y en otra inglesas: "In other news, The Times reported that, for the first time in modern history, no Royal Navy fighting ships – destroyers, frigates, amphibious assault ships or carriers – would be operating away from Britain over Christmas and New Year."
BingoBoingo: Inglaterra es un pais pobre
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755775 << i dug into this item last yr, and found that the version thing is mostly a red herring : when you set 50400, the same derps drop ~you~, a millisecond or so sooner than you would've dropped ~them~ via malleus. the real culprit is always http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-23#1702558 .☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 05:20 trinque: the version number appears to be a factor which ends up isolating trb nodes, hypothesis being that the version number being set high invites nodes to insult the malleus patch.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-23 13:09 asciilifeform: the reason why mike_c's node appears 'stalled' is that it stopped fetching blocks. trb's block sync behaviour is unspeakably moronic, it will attempt 'long sync' ONCE, on warmup
asciilifeform: aside from brief period at bootup, a trb node DOES NOT TRY TO SYNC AT ALL, passively waits for someone to come and feed it. forever.
asciilifeform: concretely : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1621858☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 00:52 asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1364 and http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1735 are the only times a trb node asks for blocks explicitly from peer
asciilifeform: + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1621865 , and really whole thread worth reviewing.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 00:55 asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu , as you can probably tell, if node misses the window when $block was being actively thrown at it, then it has only these two knobs for attempting to get it
asciilifeform: so trinque , yer node synced on account of being reset. as in more or less every previous case of 'my node stalled, i changed knob K, and reset, and bam! , synced , knob K must be reason' -- it's the reset.
asciilifeform: i'ma put this in the l0gz, ftr :
asciilifeform: the ONLY 2 times PushGetBlocks is called ( i.e. to explicitly ASK a peer for new blocks ) is :
asciilifeform: 1) inside if (strCommand == "version") { .... that is , command processor for peer's commands :
asciilifeform: // Ask the first connected node for block updates
asciilifeform: static int nAskedForBlocks;
asciilifeform: if (!pfrom->fClient &&
asciilifeform: (pfrom->nVersion < 32000 || pfrom->nVersion >= 32400) &&
asciilifeform: (nAskedForBlocks < 1 || vNodes.size() <= 1))
asciilifeform: {
asciilifeform: nAskedForBlocks++;
asciilifeform: pfrom->PushGetBlocks(pindexBest, uint256(0));
asciilifeform: }
asciilifeform: the very FIRST connected peer who issues 'version' gets asked to help sync. and when THAT connection breaks -- that's it.
asciilifeform: 2) inside the bastardry handler, in ProcessBlock(...) :
asciilifeform: // If don't already have its previous block, throw it out!
asciilifeform: if (!mapBlockIndex.count(pblock->hashPrevBlock))
asciilifeform: {
asciilifeform: printf("ProcessBlock: BASTARD BLOCK, prev=%s, DISCARDED\n", pblock->hashPrevBlock.ToString().substr(0,20).c_str());
asciilifeform:
asciilifeform: // Ask this guy to fill in what we're missing
asciilifeform: if (pfrom)
asciilifeform: pfrom->PushGetBlocks(pindexBest, pblock->hashPrevBlock);
asciilifeform:
asciilifeform: return true;
asciilifeform: }
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1621894 << see detailed discussion.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-04 01:11 asciilifeform: note that ProcessBlock() only ever asks ~the bastard-supplying peer~ for the bastard's prevblock.
asciilifeform: apologies for the clutter, but this item really ought to live in the permarecord.
asciilifeform: because it is imho a major open problem .
asciilifeform: much of what the 'power rangers' did to their bitcoin, was an elaborate dance around this problem, with a dozen pseudosolutions that guzzled memory, and -- more importantly -- destroyed the integrity of their sync ( the orphanage bullshit, the headers-first bullshit , etc )
shinohai: !!up andreiislost
deedbot: andreiislost voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: !!Up freetlas
deedbot: freetlas voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: freetlas: Habla! Quien es tu papa y Que lo hace el?
freetlas: BingoBoingo: Mark? Is it you?
BingoBoingo: Quien es Mark?
freetlas: Zuckerberg
BingoBoingo: Yo soy El senor Bingo de los Republica.
BingoBoingo: !!up mquander
deedbot: mquander voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: freetlas: Quien es vos?
freetlas: I have not the least doubt it
BingoBoingo: Y mquander, Quien es vos?
freetlas: I am an individual who sometimes reads trilema
mircea_popescu: ello freetlas
freetlas: i mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: no, i mircea_popescu ; you freetlas
freetlas: lol
freetlas: make sense
BingoBoingo: Te registra una llave con deedbot de el senor trinque
mircea_popescu: registra-te
mircea_popescu: imperative reverts
BingoBoingo: Ah, gracias
BingoBoingo: That would explain a bit
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/12/21/bitcoin-year-in-review-2017/ << Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Bitcoin Year-In-Review 2017
freetlas: I wish I knew how Spanish grammar works
BingoBoingo: The only way to really learn is to move, live among the locals, then report back to one's betters
mod6: <+asciilifeform> apologies for the clutter, but this item really ought to live in the permarecord. << thanks for posting this.
freetlas: BingoBoingo: I do speak Spanish, but I do not know rules. Do you have an Uruguayan accent?
mircea_popescu: or rather an uruguashan accent.
BingoBoingo: freetlas: Not yet. But I am starting to get a hang of ll y Y sound like Shhhh
BingoBoingo: lol
freetlas: Damn
mircea_popescu: it's funny how ll works as j[olly]j[oker] : it's sh in the south, moves to g in colombia, it's y normally...
freetlas: mircea_popescu: You have an Argentine accent, don't you?
BingoBoingo: When Colombians pass through the hostel though, very easy accent for my ears to process.
mircea_popescu: nah.
mircea_popescu: i deliberately avoided adapting to the idiots.
freetlas: mircea_popescu: be honest. DOn't be ashamed lol
mircea_popescu: normally i'm a total phonetic slut, but in this case i made an effort.
BingoBoingo: freetlas: mircea_popescu has a Roman accent
mircea_popescu: can't learn the accent of a despised herd of subhuman filth.
freetlas: BingoBoingo: It is. I mean, there are more than 4 different accents in Colombia.
BingoBoingo: freetlas: I man the accent on the columbians con dinera sufficient por vacacciones en Pocitos, Montevideo
BingoBoingo: *dinero
mircea_popescu: dinero lol. it's not like plata.
mircea_popescu: aha.
freetlas: gonna say the same lol
freetlas: BingoBoingo: that's where you currently living?
BingoBoingo: Correcting a/o is what the Venezualana dentist makes her side gig doing
BingoBoingo: freetlas: Living yes, But in a way that challenges what i considered living before. Much more living aca.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755787 << lol what did you do!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 13:30 BingoBoingo may have cheated a bit on the test leaning on the whole "animal magnetism" applied Trilema business.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755798 << this does *not* explain what I put in the log, though it is also a problem.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 14:52 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755775 << i dug into this item last yr, and found that the version thing is mostly a red herring : when you set 50400, the same derps drop ~you~, a millisecond or so sooner than you would've dropped ~them~ via malleus. the real culprit is always http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-23#1702558 .
asciilifeform: trinque: hm plox to expand then ?
mircea_popescu: trinque hey, i'm all ears.
trinque: it is not as though I restarted the trb node once, said "oh ok, worx nao"
trinque: mats also reported to me that his nodes *will not keep up*, ben_vulpes also
asciilifeform: trinque: ( and this is not specific to this case ) plox to describe, in pedantic detail, the events
trinque: I already put it in the log, what
asciilifeform: what i saw was http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755777☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 05:23 trinque: for now, I can report that setting the version number to 50400, a trb node will catch back up, txns will unstick.
mircea_popescu: you got a blog, you saw teh fetlife/okcupid/whatever write-ups, knock yourself out in a mead of fermented detail.
BingoBoingo: Well, I just stayed a playful friendly extranjero and let the laughing and the context do the not heavy at all lifting
asciilifeform: but did not see , e.g., 'did 7 resets with 9.999... but only the 8th, with 50400, did the trick'
mircea_popescu: trinque the problem with "mats also reported to me that his nodes *will not keep up*, ben_vulpes also" is the ambiguity attendant. two guys walk into a diner, agree that coffee sucks there -- one's a colombian, local brew is swill ; the other's from alaska, can not stand hot beverages.
mircea_popescu: yet they "agreed". but what was meant ?
trinque: what was meant is that I want others to study their nodes while I study mine
trinque: and not simply go "alf says it isn't so, lets not look"
mircea_popescu: yes but you did not specific a study paradigm
mircea_popescu: at least not public
trinque: I plainly said what I was going to do about it
asciilifeform: one useful item would be a 'from whom this came' log prefixer patch
mircea_popescu: "study this room" rarely works in my experience (and yes, i experienced ; we have small toys for hiding etc)
mircea_popescu: trinque i gathered you moved from knob set to x to knob set to y ; that's not the same as a "do this experiment".
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: for instance, what specific variable was to be measured, and how.
asciilifeform: trinque: one way to turn this into an experimental setup would be to make ver knob adjustable ~without reset~
asciilifeform: then could genuinely say 'it wasn't the reset, it was version mask'
asciilifeform: after certain # of shots
mircea_popescu: reset does add some noise ; but it can be also filtered out otherwise.
trinque: asciilifeform: clearly.
mircea_popescu: statistics works on anything, is the thing.
asciilifeform: it isn't 'some noise', mircea_popescu , reset triggers the one and only sync-catchup routine
asciilifeform: ( see the massive log turd earlier )
mircea_popescu: i'm aware, i'm aware.
trinque: I was brief on details because I fully expected that others are seeing the same behavior with the trb nodes they maintain. public indexes of nodes report that just about every single one is far behind.
asciilifeform: trinque: the 1 common thread in asciilifeform's lab notes from birth of trb to today, is that once they fall behind, they stay behind, until reset. (often more than one reset.)
mats: i've had some luck syncing with 'btcwire' nodes, when all of the advertised nodes were ~30 blocks behind or unreachable on sunday
asciilifeform: and i'm satisfied that i found the reason for it. ( and no i do not have a ready pill, the ~algo~ is broken )
asciilifeform: what's btcwire ?
mats: and at that time i just fed those blocks back to the advertised nodes, it caught up
mats: some golang thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform half-admitted sybil.
mircea_popescu: was something-network before that
trinque: one which probably doesn't implement enough of the prb protocol to get banned
asciilifeform: mats: hand-feeding always works, yes. but it's not a practical means of keeping a node up in regular practice.
trinque: think for a sec, that with the high version number you're advertising support for protocol "features" you then immediately issue a ban for.
asciilifeform: trinque: this is not wrong , but it's a pov that concedes to the powerrangers the privilege of owning version#s
asciilifeform: why should they get to filter us out by doing e.g. 'nothing below 0.7 can connect'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in his case, because he wants to at least occasionally get txn out
trinque: this sort of thinking creates gigantic blind spots in which ways 0.5.4 is broken will hide.
asciilifeform: if it in fact has become impossible to get a tx out without emulating all of prb, we have a Problem
mircea_popescu: dude...
trinque: I reported this in the log
mircea_popescu: we have had A PROBLEM for longer than i can recall.
mircea_popescu: we have no isp. we can't as much as fucking hire a chinese girl.
mircea_popescu: somehow nike manages to get its shoes sewn ; but not us
mircea_popescu: we're afloat in problems.
asciilifeform: troo!
mircea_popescu: so then.
mats: in regular practice i'm uncertain how to masquerade as prb without running a heathen node and plugging trb into that
trinque: in the case of the version number (which I will obviously test extensively, and said so) it's possible it's a bad move to crank to maxver, because it's a lie saying "we support all misc novelties below this int"
trinque: mats: my node.deedbot.org node *immediately* synced to top after weeks of restarts and praying to satan when version number was set.
asciilifeform: trinque: that knob is there, to be turned. i've no argument that 'version dun matter', it may well matter. but oughta be tested correctly, as indep. variable.
mats: trinque: who did you ask for blocks?
trinque: I have the republican list in addnode and that's it.
trinque: asciilifeform: where was that in argument
asciilifeform: iirc recent prb ( as analyzed by jurov, still digging for the thread ) will simply drop you if you connect and report <0.7 .
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755783☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 05:34 trinque will be comparing multiple test subjects.
asciilifeform: you gotta compare without reset tho.
trinque: I agree with that as well.
trinque: should be trivial to add an rpc to change the var
asciilifeform: needs a patch.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: another patch experiment whose time imho has come, is 'prod' rpc command : trigger the boot sync behaviour at arbitrary time.
asciilifeform: i'ma produce it this weekend, if no one else has.
trinque: indeed, should be tested independently of this, can possibly preserve the high version.
asciilifeform: incidentally when i wrote the versionknob patch, i did not expect that everyone here will run with ~same~ , default ver
mircea_popescu: yes for srs. prod!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform meaningless magic number got set to the "closest ot inexistence" available.
trinque: asciilifeform: I don't blame the patch, only "now I have an observation which suggests touch the knob"
asciilifeform: aha , ^ is how i came up with the value
trinque: suggestion may be wrong
asciilifeform: trinque: item very much deserves proper test.
asciilifeform: and as 'ship is made to sail', knob -- is made to turn.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's point was not 'don't turn', but 'gotta turn them knobs independently of one another, or 9000 years will not suffice'
trinque suddenly realises that there are two intuitive items, tit.. and cock
trinque: the second, stick everywhere!
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: Where's that trilema about cock eating rock
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755797 <<< Pero si es lleno de recursos humanos, no?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 14:37 BingoBoingo: Inglaterra es un pais pobre
trinque: BingoBoingo: how goes rackquest?
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Para hacer biopetro.
shinohai: Mah corn
BingoBoingo: trinque: More slowly than I would like. The whole US citizen bullshit is giving the accountant quite a workout when it comes to making banking work to pay for the racks.
mircea_popescu: in other sads : one trb node was dead since fucking 22nd of august, because -- it ran into the fabled "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbRunRecoveryException' what(): DbEnv::txn_checkpoint: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery" which then kicked in a script to clean it up, which it did, but couldn't boot back up because for yet-unknown reasons there was a spurious .lock leftover ; corner case u
mircea_popescu: ncovered, 1k man-hours worth of spuriously idiotic automation down teh drain.
mircea_popescu: we have, as the man says, A problem.
BingoBoingo: trinque: As far as the racks themselves. Ready within 72 hours of signing a contract and paying for them, but IP address block from LACNIC will take 2 weeks from application to allocation.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what was yer bandwidth, again?
mircea_popescu: shaping up BingoBoingo !
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The quote is for 100 MBPS decicated symmetrical. If there's more traffic in one direction, asymetrical dedicated lines are also available.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: gracias
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's getting his foot in tyhe door ; it'll scale.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: should hope so. because 100mb ain't enuff for even 1 trbtron
mircea_popescu: measure it soemtime.
asciilifeform: i did.
asciilifeform: !#s incitatus
a111: 40 results for "incitatus", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=incitatus
asciilifeform: ^ subj.
trinque: BingoBoingo: would easily host my sites and botworx
asciilifeform: prolly would work for, e.g., qntra, aha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't see a number in there ; be moar useful and speak the value.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 1e6 * 3600 * 24 * 30
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1e6 * 3600 * 24 * 30 = 2592000000000
mircea_popescu: 2.5 petabytes is many times over trilema, so.
BingoBoingo can't recall running a trbtron I could touch on a connection faster than 3 mbps until in Montevideo
asciilifeform: hey, slow modem beats no modem
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, router rule
mircea_popescu: by the time your trb node eats 10 MBps even, you've more serious problems than "buy more pipe". and that's inst not sustained.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: well yes, i'm aware that there is not a literal 100mb/s modem, lol
BingoBoingo: Once trb gets enough network speed to work, extra doesn't offer much
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most painful spot is prolly the bringup of new node with its 200G
mircea_popescu: that 200G is over a little more than 20 minutes.
mircea_popescu: bb broadfly has it, there's a narrow sliver of bw trb/prb can even use ; more than that it generally wastes.
asciilifeform does the arithmetic, yea mircea_popescu is prolly right
mircea_popescu: and the narrow sliver in question is in the kbps range
mircea_popescu: ie, unless you got a good reason running a centralizing node, capping the bw for the damned thing doesn't do anything observable.
asciilifeform: the bottom limit is what it takes to move in a block every 10m . i.e. ~2kB/s.
mircea_popescu: in practice more like 15x that, because it gotta chatter like a boring housewife.
asciilifeform: aha, mempoolism
mircea_popescu: aha.
BingoBoingo: 1-1.5 mbps cap tends to allow resonable block reception time and support a number of connections, and keeps pipe faily clear outside of block time
BingoBoingo: with an under 512 kbps cap, not many other nodes will want to be friends
asciilifeform: and speaking of all of this, asciilifeform has a gentootronic box ready to crate up and enthrone immediately when BingoBoingo proclaims his rack.
asciilifeform: ( and soon 2 moar )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: very nice
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755987 << i have seen this item a grand total of twice, and both times -- dying hdd☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 16:44 mircea_popescu: in other sads : one trb node was dead since fucking 22nd of august, because -- it ran into the fabled "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DbRunRecoveryException' what(): DbEnv::txn_checkpoint: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery" which then kicked in a script to clean it up, which it did, but couldn't boot back up because for yet-unknown reasons there was a spurious .lock leftover ; corner case u
mircea_popescu: i see it on occasion ; and yes decent predictor for ssd death.
asciilifeform: afaik it's entirely impossible without rotting iron
mircea_popescu: this is bitcoin, errything's possible.
asciilifeform: all i can say is, to date only observed db death on boxes with actual bit rot.
mircea_popescu: the db is actually fine.
asciilifeform: i.e. copied it elsewhere, and it mounted ?
mircea_popescu: here, also.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> all i can say is, to date only observed db death on boxes with actual bit rot. << Aha, saw when trying to start trb from blockchain loaded onto box from corrupted thumb drive
mircea_popescu: lmao watching BingoBoingo spanish is amusing. los republica ? how many of it are there!
mircea_popescu: and why is it masculine allovasudden
mircea_popescu: teh republic's a bitch.
BingoBoingo: Because the venezualana is too busy to deliver suffient humilation on her own.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, as many republicitas as los senors.
BingoBoingo: But consider "vos sos [adjective]" mastered.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, accomodating the truth that most people want a friend more than I do, and letting them shoulder their share of the burden helps make BingoBoingo spanish functionally amusing in person.
BingoBoingo: Blog post baking.
mircea_popescu: cool.
BingoBoingo: !!up freetlas
deedbot: freetlas voiced for 30 minutes.
freetlas: Indeed, it is. Btw, Venezuelan* or venezolana/o
freetlas: In case you're talking about people from Venezuela
BingoBoingo: Si
BingoBoingo: Una persona, una odontologa
freetlas: Conoces una odontologa venezolana?
BingoBoingo: freetlas: Para vos, Yo soy usted!
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: he got it, and he ain't affraid to use it!
mircea_popescu bbl
freetlas: BingoBoingo: It ain't fucking usted in Argentine Spanish bastard lol
freetlas: , bastard*
BingoBoingo: Uruguay no es Argentina.
BingoBoingo: Y aca los senores son usted.
freetlas: You're right. Uruguay is part of Argentina. It's just another state. :)
freetlas: Los senadores?
BingoBoingo: Los caballeros.
freetlas: Are you a Lord? :o
freetlas: I apologize, Lord BingoBoingo. Usted conoce a una odontologa venezolana?
BingoBoingo: Gracias, si la conozco.
freetlas: Gracias. Si, la conozco.*
BingoBoingo: !!gettrust deedbot BingoBoingo
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 8 by 8 connections.
mircea_popescu: anyway, continuing the trinque discussion, it seems entirely unavoidable that trb will become 3 things : a wallet node, optimized for pumping out local signed tx ; a block node, optimized for keeping the blockchain, getting blocks, no mempool nonsense ; and a spy node, optimized to keeping track of the lies and nonsense flowing through the relay network (mempool, timing nodes, what have you).
mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no conceivable reason to have all these 3 items in the same place.
mircea_popescu: key to the split is a rewrite of the db so it's less fucktarded.
asciilifeform actually has the db item, based on 'horsecocks' routine posted earlier ; but not ready for primetime and on hold pending ffa/p release
asciilifeform: i.e. giant mmap.
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea, at that.
asciilifeform: O(1) fetches.
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: ( and writes, for that matter. )
asciilifeform: btw 'block node' per mircea_popescu's cut , doesn't have to be a 'daemonic' process at all, even. can run as 1shot cmdline util, that can be asked to eat a candidate-block ( and report success/failure ), or disgorge a previously-accepted block (by header , or by height) ; then terminates
asciilifeform: it dun need to persistently grind.
mircea_popescu: possibly.
mircea_popescu: could even be a bash one-liner
asciilifeform: bash-driven, at any rate. ( still pretty massive cpp ball behind the scenes, considering that all of the remaining 'grandfather's pistol' logic lives ultimately in the is-this-an-actual-block evaluator )
mircea_popescu: and evidently the power rangers made the wrong cut. it is FINE to have a "light node" consisting of block and tx ; no spy.
mircea_popescu: but they cut out the essential part and left the nonsense.
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: without is-this-a-block-based-on-all-known-blocks-down-to-genesis, it ain't a node, it's used cumrag
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, it can be said "it makes no sense to have A without B", which is true. though it DOES make perfect senser to have B without A, which is why they are to be cut.
mircea_popescu: because exactly, B is the basis of all things ; upon which basis A or C or both or neither may live.
asciilifeform: will even observe, that it is possible to have a bitcoin net with only sneakernet connectivity, with cmdline eatblock-ing nodes.
asciilifeform: and hand-carried payloads.
mircea_popescu: cut like this, yes.
mircea_popescu: and as it should be.
mircea_popescu: then B can simply send PushGetBlocks until it falls over and entirely ignore mempool idiocy
mircea_popescu: thereby having nodes forever on the brink of the chain no matter what.
asciilifeform: B in the 'cmdline' model wouldn't ever on its own power send anything, or act autonomously
asciilifeform: it'd be 'supreme court' for the whatever As connected.
asciilifeform: ( but contain no networking code on its own )
mircea_popescu: could be a peer too, why not.
asciilifeform: idea is that it should not be gummable by anything that happens on the net.
asciilifeform: could be a peer, but 'lan peer'
mircea_popescu: i guess. better have it capable and let operator design than have it incapable and no choice.
mircea_popescu: lan-only knob eminently useful.
asciilifeform: ideally reference-trb is capable-of-everything, incl. cpumining ( see the dozen or so threads at this point )
mircea_popescu: no more "reference" bs. functionality.
mircea_popescu: consider the following point : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755759☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 04:03 Cerber248: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10308021/filing-history christel sold freenode to Private Internet Access Andrew Lee WHO ALSO OWNS SNOONET AND IS MOVING FREENODE TO THAT SERVER (NEXT MONTH) AND CLOSING DOWN OPEN SOURCE ROOMS PLEASE COMPLAIN IN CHAN FREENODErlpxbbo: gribble lobbesbot de
asciilifeform: yes functionality but gotta be careful that the cut parts sum to at least the customary functionality.
mircea_popescu: you know FOR A FACT that it's nsa-bs, because if it weren't, they'd have sold it to me not to some obscure mortodifame.
asciilifeform: how else.
mircea_popescu: but it wasn't a "sale", it was a "mommy calls children home".
asciilifeform: they have a whole fleet of these shills, 1000s
mircea_popescu: NOW, the first, and naive, thought, would be "o noes, all those poor but intelligent engineer minds who will lose their freenode ; we should try to help them"
asciilifeform: starting with 1940s crypto-ag and going on to today.
mircea_popescu: no. we should not. fuck them with a barbed stick. how DARE they be anywhere but here ? and why help such scum ?
mircea_popescu: they'll get what they deserve.
mircea_popescu: reference ? FUCK YOU.
mircea_popescu: "reference" is altspeak for "proof proofiness investigation"
asciilifeform: it isn't as if the heathens read, or ever read, it
asciilifeform: !!up mircea_popescu
deedbot: mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: !!up mircea_popescu
deedbot: mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: there's 0 reason to think in these terms. let the self-important impotent judges-of-all-things-makers-of-nothing wash their heads with their reference rights.
mircea_popescu is in car, will v later on.
asciilifeform: i gotta ask, in what terms instead
asciilifeform: as i understood trb historically was 'and here is bitcoin minus the post-2011 barnacles, deviate at your own risk, derps, it will still be there an' working'
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> no more "reference" bs. functionality. <
mircea_popescu: trinque needs so and so for so and so, let him have it.
asciilifeform doesn't disagree.
mircea_popescu: what we need is all that matters ; anyone else's "rights" are indistinguishable from hallucinations.
mircea_popescu: show a need and get at the least a go ahead, ideally some help.
asciilifeform: sorta where i was going with experiments such as 'wires' etc
asciilifeform: 'fuck the scum'
asciilifeform: ( btw did everyone grasp why 'wires' dun work ? )
mircea_popescu: i'm absolutely NOT going to sit here and say to trinque yes you're here and doing things but your item should be even an iota less usefull to you than it could be "because public"
asciilifeform: aa yea
mircea_popescu: the public is henceforth a byword for they in the dungeons.
asciilifeform: the 1 caveat is that if the tx dun cut through the kilometre of prb and get to china, it dun get mined
mircea_popescu: it's always cheaper to deal with china without idiot white cucks than with.
asciilifeform: hence 'cut through'
mircea_popescu: true in 1817 as today
mircea_popescu: anytway, this car has been idliong in parking lot long enough. i will bbl fo reals.
asciilifeform: i'll admit ftr that this item was one of the underlying seekrit crackpotteries behind asciilifeform's interest in shortwave
asciilifeform: theoretically a miner who gives a damn re max rake, oughta tune in when if e.g. mircea_popescu were to pump out a fat tx on sw.
asciilifeform: rather than waiting for 10,000km of usg.cisco and usg.fiber relays to churn.
asciilifeform: ( as well as dozen hops of prb nonsense )
asciilifeform: whatever else ionosphere does, it doesn't 'bitbetate'.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 15450.0, vol: 22162.77034256 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 15429.0, vol: 68944.99232496 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 14891.3, vol: 4117.38791642 | Volume-weighted last average: 15410.6382406
asciilifeform: waterlolfall
shinohai: `Long Island Iced Tea shares soared 500% after the company rebranded as Long Blockchain. The decision came at 3 AM, during a long "product testing" meeting, after one executive mentioned that his son had made a lot of money on "Betcoin [sic].`
shinohai: toppest of keks
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder how mircea_popescu squares pictures like this with 'net worth is proxy for intelligence', 'executives are skilled professionals', and similar
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1756072 << I have already split the wallet from trb in a patch I'm testing.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 17:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, continuing the trinque discussion, it seems entirely unavoidable that trb will become 3 things : a wallet node, optimized for pumping out local signed tx ; a block node, optimized for keeping the blockchain, getting blocks, no mempool nonsense ; and a spy node, optimized to keeping track of the lies and nonsense flowing through the relay network (mempool, timing nodes, what have you).
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Likely by recognizing the damaging effect of wreckers and the despicable kind of theif. Pic unrelated, features the honorable kind of thief http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/P1000070-1-768x576.jpg
trinque: the cut turned out to be very clean, delete wallet.h/cpp, rip all references out, and item syncs just fine. it of course breaks getmempool and GenerateBlocks, whatever else.
asciilifeform: trinque: this is neato and i'd like to try it
asciilifeform: ( i assume it also sheds various mempoolisms ? )
trinque: nah, mempool cut can be a separate patch
asciilifeform: aa
trinque: kept this strictly to wallet
asciilifeform: a 'pistol only' cut , as discussed earlier, would be interesting
trinque: I will post an experimental patch soon, when fit for other hands
shinohai: Neato trinque .... had discussed with mod6 before how divorcing wallet rpc functions from trb would be so much better.
trinque: what's needed is, say, a shivatronic script compiler for txn.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-21#1755738☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-21 01:52 phf: i think correct method would really be to get the transaction out as a binary array into shiva, and then have a transaction parser in shiva itself that'll break it down into a sexp or whatever
trinque: that, but both ways.
trinque: asciilifeform: beauty of v is that these paths can diverge cleanly, operator can choose which lineage to press. patches appropriate for multiple lines, ground onto multiple lines.
asciilifeform: aha!
phf: “Romanian Hackers Infiltrated 65% of DC Outdoor Surveillance Cameras (cnn.io)”
asciilifeform: lol, for spam
asciilifeform: where were these folx on '9/11' !111
phf: cheering on?
asciilifeform: ( famously, all cams near pentagon 'oops, stopped working' that day )
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/d2YLr/?raw=true << plaintxtization of the lulgem from phf's link
asciilifeform: !!up freetlas
deedbot: freetlas voiced for 30 minutes.
freetlas: I'm very disapointted with myself for not even being a Beginner of The Republic.
asciilifeform: so go and fix
asciilifeform: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
asciilifeform: ^ reg with deedbot
asciilifeform: then follow the intro linked in chan subj, on mircea_popescu's www .
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-20#1755450 << i've picked up a book in new orleans, “Symbolic computation : applications to scientific computing”, it's all macsyma and various sussman style scheme hacks for exploring dynamic systems, but an interesting trick that almost all the code uses, which i guess was sop in lisp world at some point, is to do visualization and control on a lisp machine, but do the heavy numeric simulations in fortran 77. the in☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-20 18:35 asciilifeform: this is possible. when's the last time you saw a cpu-bound proggy in cl tho
phf: teractive environment is basically there to parametrize, and then it spits out a fortran code that crunches the numbers as it is
asciilifeform: oyea phf pretty sure i saw this
asciilifeform: 'compile to fortran'
asciilifeform: this was even used quite recently, in certain schemetrons
asciilifeform: 'compile to c'
asciilifeform: really the endgame of this is 'compile to fpga'
phf: like there's a paper on a multibody simulation system "implemented in zeta-lisp on symbolics 3600" with symbolic part done in macsyma, but the "numeric simulator" is implemented in fortran-77 running on a lisp machine
asciilifeform: for those annoting little cpubound problems like hbomb implosion contours etc
phf: there's a separate differential geometry package for non-linear dynamic systems in macsyma, likewise does analysis in macsyma, and then spits out fortran 77 code
asciilifeform: at one time asciilifeform was a meat version of this, for a living
phf: right, i guess you were doing industrial robotics and such?
asciilifeform: that was at same place, but later
asciilifeform: earlier was , them crunchings. inner loops in asm etc.
phf: ah
asciilifeform: btw, ftr asciilifeform considered f77 as close runner-up for 'in what to write ffa and all from nao on'
asciilifeform: it loses to ada in re: clarity and bound-guarantees
asciilifeform: but otherwise strong alternative to the bell labs idiocies.
asciilifeform: and quite well-standardized.
asciilifeform: and compiles pretty cleanly.
phf: i have to admit, my math is so weak, it's reading these papers i realized that Proper Engineering actually uses something called state-space representation for discretizing dynamic systems, and that behaviors of, say, robotic manipulators, have time independent, closed form solutions. also of explains that scene from anathem, at the workshop
asciilifeform: aha!!
asciilifeform: it!
asciilifeform extends imaginary cylinder hat.
asciilifeform: state-space representation << recall lagrange's mechanics.
phf: well, i have an intuitive understanding of what's going on now, i just need to work through calca. i've also simultaneously understood why lapack is so valuable. and yes, i see how that ties to lagrange's mechanics.
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/21/he-tenido-una-cita-en-la-ciudad-vieja-a-lesson-in-applied-trilema/ << Bingo Blog - He Tenido Una Cita En La Ciudad Vieja: A Lesson In Applied Trilema
BingoBoingo: Ah, forgot to link http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686062☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 18:42 mircea_popescu: rooster sees hen and runs towards her. hen reflexively starts running away. after a short space the hen thinks "if i stop he'll think me a slut, if i keep running he'll think me stupid... how about i stumble."
shinohai is thoroughly enjoying these new pieces on the BingoBoingo blog ....
BingoBoingo: !~tyvm
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "tyvm" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: !~ty
jhvh1: You are very welcome Daddy
deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/12/21/eucrypt-correcting-mpi-implementation/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt: Correcting MPI Implementation
asciilifeform: o hey hey hey , lbj!!!
diana_coman: it seems I also found a difference in press behaviour between asciilifeform's v99 and mod6's v: this new vpatch of mine si correctly identified as leaf and otherwise descendant of ch1_mpi.vpatch by both v ; however, when pressing ch2 vpatch, mod6's v presses this other leaf too from what I see, while asciilifeform's v99 does not press it; to me v99's behaviour seems correct but I don't know if this is something that was discussed before
diana_coman: ch2 vpatch is *another* leaf, sibling of this vpatch
mod6: ugh.
mod6: i'll have to take a look a bit later here diana_coman
mod6: i simply curse the day that i ever wrote the thing
diana_coman: mod6, no rush at all; I just reported it because unexpected to me; let me know if there is any other info I can provide to help
diana_coman: fwiw mod6 I'm rather happy you wrote it though, as it helped me a lot in the beginning when I was trying to get my head around v itself; having at least 2 implementations to compare is not a bad thing
mod6: yeah, it's not good though. literally everytime someone uses it, there seems to be some sort of ... 'it doesn't work'
mod6: i'll take a look and see what your thing is doing later. will report back.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the v99 behaviour is the correct one : pressing 'siblings' automagically, is a mistake; if you want the contents of both 'siblings', you oughta have a 'unifier' patch that pulls both in.
asciilifeform: v as i originally devised it, specifically 'grasps' by ~1~ leaf, when calculating a press
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, I plan precisely a unifier; that makes total sense to me, see above where I already said I consider v99 behaviour as correct
asciilifeform: aha