asciilifeform: ^ happens during elaboration
asciilifeform: that's all of it, i think.
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks hey there.
asciilifeform: meanwhile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lvGTgEBAw8 ( for orclang aficionados strictly )
mircea_popescu: !!key ccmtacks
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/A213A38BE8660D713C0A69B3B9EB9E5F4DE45E7A.asc
asciilifeform: 'Gori Njujork, Pentagon se pali,/ Ameriko, dali su ti, dali. / Gori Njujork, Pentagon se ruši, / Krajišnici, vraćajmo se kući. / Šta će sada u Zаgrebu vlada, / Amerika na kolena pada...'
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/afD5t/?raw=true
shinohai: Someone claims to have obtained copy of sound used in Cuban attax http://archive.is/XmrAa
shinohai: I'll be back in a week when the vomiting, dizziness, and diarrhea subside.
asciilifeform: 'questions of a possible microwave or radio wave device .... If that were the case, the sounds wouldn’t show up on a recording' << and anyone should believe the clip is genuine article precisely why.
asciilifeform: sounds, btw, entirely not unlike 'microwaved' audio pickup .
ben_vulpes: so i'm fiddling with some source delivery pipeline, and i discover that some asshole has put executable code into his cl .asd files; which i suppose is fine in some circumstances, but i'm doing Terrible Things over here and the asd's aren't getting concatenated with everything else and so just to add another entry to my list of folks whose decisions have made my life harder i look this dude up and can ya
ben_vulpes: believe it he proudly writes ethereum shits now
asciilifeform: wat's a source delivery pipeline
mircea_popescu: i don't get it, i can make a plain light colorized image of an ultraviolet source, but i can't make a sound pattern of some microwave ?
mircea_popescu: wtf, nobody goes to school anymore ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: anybody can make anything out of anything, esp. if the inputs are fictional.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: tiny set of scripts to get all of the source for a project from box a to box b
mircea_popescu: that's part 2 of our show.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i am entirely unsurprised. the "scale bitcoin" shitheads + the "exciting blockchain technologee" shitheads + the "we are marketing" dogeheads are pretty much === the cancer that has eaten foss.
asciilifeform: http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/images/cynocephalos.jpg << oblig dogehead
asciilifeform: meanwhile, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/IkTH9/?raw=true << current ffascisms list. and growing!
ccmtacks: mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7CSPJ/?raw=true
asciilifeform: err, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wBiWg/?raw=true << minus the cruft
asciilifeform: ^ mod6 et al
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks say !!invoice mircea_popescu 0.0145
trinque: sec, lemme add his key to the right box
mircea_popescu: lol
trinque: there's an append only thing that doesn't exist yet
mod6 looks
ccmtacks: !!invoice mircea_popescu 0.0145
deedbot: You must be registered.
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks give it one moment, trinque has to fiddle the bot's guts.
ccmtacks: ok
trinque: ok give it another crank
mircea_popescu: trinque is this crushing you btw ? should slow down ?
trinque: nah it's the good kind of pain
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks hit it nao.
trinque: I always start with human mechanisms and then speed 'em up
mircea_popescu: me too. it's the only right way to symbian.
trinque: haw!
mod6: haha
ccmtacks: !!invoice mircea_popescu 0.0145
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/N06e7/?raw=true
asciilifeform: whenever i think 'human mechanism' i think of the (terrible) film 'snowpiercer'
mircea_popescu: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
trinque wiggles hand at asciilifeform
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: hm, there's no way to pay it without the number, huh. !!received-invoices step mandatory.
trinque: I could have it burp the invoice number in logs if people don't care that it does
mircea_popescu: im sure they do.
trinque: I'd have thought so yeah
mircea_popescu: the right thing would be for it to execute !!pay name if unambiguous and protest otherwise it needs an invoice number (or heck, just pay everything ?)
mircea_popescu: but still up in the air this, needs more human strokes.
trinque: anyhow ccmtacks gotta pass the decrypted otp back to deedbot like with !!up
mircea_popescu: maybe have a magic !!pay joe all ? and btw, why is it not simply !!pay ?
trinque: I don't like overloading commands
mircea_popescu hates typin'.
ccmtacks: I got decryped otp
trinque: that sends a defined amount to a person, hasn't to do with invoicing
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks say !!v wit it
trinque: don't want people sending 3 btc when they meant pay invoice 3
mircea_popescu: trinque o shit i should have just sent it to him huh. my bad, still new at this.
ccmtacks: !!v 56988162BA62D0ED252CC97D66917B8BDA0B156175326682ED0A3942D6598114
deedbot: Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.0145 <<
mircea_popescu: !!received-invoices
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NgPRW/?raw=true
ccmtacks: done
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks 1sec
mircea_popescu: !!pay-invoice ccmtacks 1
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mmRdg/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: trinque oh it counts PER NICK. this is very workable then.
mircea_popescu: i daresay it's the right thing as it is.
trinque: yep, unique between you and other party
trinque: i.e. if you invoice him it'll be 2
mircea_popescu: ya, perfect.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bzzrrapp.jpg << meanwhile in n00b spot welds
mircea_popescu: this way you have a passive "your books and my books gotta match yo" extra accounbting check there.
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks you're good to go. can see your btc wallet with !!balance and can also !!withdraw if you wanna sell it etc.
mircea_popescu: or can keep it there, it's safe. DO NOT LOSE YOUR PGP KEY though.
mircea_popescu: !!pay-invoice shinohai 1
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wCABz/?raw=true
ccmtacks: !!balance
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/88yjG/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks sorry i fucked it up. try again now.
ccmtacks: !!balance
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dB4Wx/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: shinohai http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iLf2O/?raw=true
ccmtacks: !!withdraw 0.0145 32uGGc1G4Cytie5zXa8gGWZJvdyM2KncX5
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rJfgy/?raw=true
ccmtacks: !!v 22201C7FC5E2694EBCF2F5240D0507A41EE8C2F0FDC7C2179622E424142A1556
ccmtacks: mircea_popescu, during the withdraw process, if I don't receive any response from deedbot, when I give him the encrypted OTP, does it mean that I have to do all the process again ?
mircea_popescu: you put an extra space after the v
ccmtacks: I did left one
ccmtacks: I will try again
ccmtacks: !!withdraw 0.0145 32uGGc1G4Cytie5zXa8gGWZJvdyM2KncX5
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/MM0w3/?raw=true
trinque: hold on. what are addresses starting with 3 again?
asciilifeform: !
mircea_popescu: trinque it doesn't pay 3s ?
asciilifeform: how would trb pay a 3, lol
mircea_popescu: doh.
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks need proper bitcoin address, 1-led.
ccmtacks: !!v 58E3CD3F416C32C575F676B62CC83B062D2AF5E9E7D384C3F3150E2817C6F44A
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/olvC7/?raw=true
ccmtacks: mircea_popescu, I've received a message from deedbot that the amount of coins will be transfered to desired btc address
ccmtacks: so I guess everything is fine now
trinque: ...
trinque: lol, hi ccmtacks. I'm the operator of deedbot
asciilifeform: trinque: looks like eggog ?
trinque: not eggog, it's a string
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks yeah but trinque runs it and if he says it won't then i tend to believe him.
trinque: asciilifeform: there's no hot wallet here; I'm marching my ass over to another box and making signed tx, then popping into a trb with polarbeard patch for sendrawtransaction
ccmtacks: ah, sorry trinque, I didn't know that
mircea_popescu: this sounds like great slavegirl punishment.
asciilifeform: woah srs hand-crank reactor rod control
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks sorry for all the hassle ; re-do once more, use a 1something address like god meant it.
trinque: idea is to tighten the loop until it is a matter of <1min
mircea_popescu: i believe.
trinque: then from there, hot wallet, but one where refilling it is both human operated and quite easy
mircea_popescu: in other news, zinx sex got camhos lined up for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-12#1724491 already.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-12 20:52 mircea_popescu: trinque here's a thought : write me a branded single page "how to" somewhere, and ima modify the pay for your tits thing to only work with deedbot invoices. can then use it to push teh service, how's that sound ?
ccmtacks: !!withdraw 0.0145 1JxsMSnFZdNdVnnDqiTV4aAYM3sESdbPrE
mircea_popescu: obviously, i mean sez not sex. but anyway.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tMA6k/?raw=true
ccmtacks: !!v 9E0C56CF6821F571DF1F6D81BC05291FD0506A8F574D423CAA51B1650FF6DD29
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks say the !!v again, single space.
ccmtacks: !!v 9E0C56CF6821F571DF1F6D81BC05291FD0506A8F574D423CAA51B1650FF6DD29
mircea_popescu: still two spaces...
ccmtacks: I don't get it, I only type one space and it gives me two
mircea_popescu: that's weird.
ccmtacks: !!v 9E0C56CF6821F571DF1F6D81BC05291FD0506A8F574D423CAA51B1650FF6DD29
mircea_popescu: say there you go.
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ybrnj/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check it out, macs give double \n windows give double \s
ccmtacks: ok, I believe that now is everything ok
mircea_popescu: well done!
trinque: ccmtacks: actual amount will be less the tx fee. I'll fire that off in a bit.
mircea_popescu: o darn i forgot the tx fee.
ccmtacks: trinque: ok, no problem at all.
trinque: nbd. there needs to be a whole tx weighing mechanism in order to let people know what that amount will be in the response.
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks next time, remind me i'll tack on an extra coupla bucks.
ccmtacks: ok mate, no problem. I wanted to ask you regarding the fees, however, this time I've just been looking to do everything right
mircea_popescu: anyway, simple way to sell anything for bitcoin : get a !!deposit from deedbot, give out that address.
trinque: well, give out the amount. otherwise it's not going to right account
mircea_popescu: make sure you get exact ammts though, otherwise there's trouble. if deedbot says 0.044236666 then make sure op sends exactly, all the way to the 6666.
trinque: sorry, jumped the gun.
trinque: this thing obviously pairs up with a buy/sell board quite well
trinque: so much to do
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: trinque zinx ran me a grand or so so far, but i would way the fuck rather blow a grand on that than what the fuck is the alternative
mircea_popescu: pay a coupla dumb hos who don't even hooker for a living to sit among some plastic shits at a "conference", spend 10x that much ?
mircea_popescu: noty.
ccmtacks: Noted, I've read a lot of the help material, so I actually get it how it all works now, well a good part of it :)
mircea_popescu: ccmtacks the important part is that unlike websites etc it's actually secure.
mircea_popescu: as long as you keep your rsa key safe, of course.
ccmtacks: yeah, I get it now
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in random labia, http://78.media.tumblr.com/85972afe2d38a48d1e31533b4b622a27/tumblr_nj0q3hJycj1rvrgfvo3_1280.jpg
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i don't get it, i can make a plain light colorized image of an ultraviolet source, but i can't make a sound pattern of some microwave ? << AHA, like "traffic safety" radar
trinque: mircea_popescu: I'm gonna post a tutorial on deedbot.org tonight, and also hook up the newb nick+key conveyor
mircea_popescu: trinque don't sweat it, she'll do it when i tell her to, what. tomorrow, monday, whatever.
trinque: aite
trinque: buy sell board does appear within reach now huh.
mircea_popescu: take it ezzy so you last teh long haul.
mircea_popescu: trinque can directly push lobbes 's bot into it, what more is needed ? we have all the parts.
mircea_popescu: ~only thing really needed is proper hosting.
trinque: oh hey it's got auctions, doesn't it
trinque: !@help
trinque: !Qhelp
lobbesbot: trinque: http://lobbesblog.com/lobbesbotcommands
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724705 <<< ty mircea_popescu will do! :)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 01:23 mircea_popescu: shinohai http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iLf2O/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: trinque definitely, check it out on http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-10-11.log.html#t21:42:21
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-10-11 21:42:21: <diana_coman> !QAuction 2.86mn 48 29173 Flotsam q62
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/4aUZ8/?raw=true Jolo returns from his day off
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo eh i really don't need all of these.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: k, I'll wait for ones with numbers
asciilifeform: 'we only need one victory' (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: god's honest truth.
BingoBoingo: Still, the Asian cador continues to impress.
BingoBoingo: !!Up saot
deedbot: saot voiced for 30 minutes.
saot: Hi there
saot: I'm just lurking
BingoBoingo: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
saot: i don't know what he does, he wrecks his life
BingoBoingo: Oh, is that good or bad for you?
saot: bad but it doesn't affect me
BingoBoingo: Maybe one of these days hitting a rock bottom will give him an opportunity for a spiritual experience? Anyways, what are you lurking for?
saot: some mental stimulation, cool corners of the internet are good to find unusual options
saot: i think this is one of them
BingoBoingo: So, who's your favorite? Any memes here you are a fan of?
saot: I like 4chan but recently i find it boring
BingoBoingo: Ah, why not register a key? Make yourself at home?
saot: i'm not fan of a specific meme but throwing communists out of helicopters sounds fun
saot: how do i do it?
BingoBoingo: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
BingoBoingo: ^ There are the instructions
BingoBoingo: !!up saot
deedbot: saot voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: So, anyone in the Repulic have any ideas on network switching equipment?
ben_vulpes: my trinqulator sez "mac mini with openbsd"
trinque: lol
trinque checks over his shoulder
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724819 << >> http://rw9hyy.tsu.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/IMG_6926.jpg☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 03:11 BingoBoingo: So, anyone in the Repulic have any ideas on network switching equipment?
BingoBoingo: How many mac minis are necessary to bond together a 14 Gbps link to the worl?
BingoBoingo: lol alf
mod6: haha
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://ua1osm.forum2x2.ru/t18-topic << maaany great switchings to choose from!
asciilifeform: ^ last one -- from t34.
BingoBoingo: Well, AA battery as power supply means won't interfere with heat envelope too much
asciilifeform: hey BingoBoingo didja have toys like https://49.img.avito.st/640x480/3519579249.jpg in '80s gringolandia ?
asciilifeform: ^ exact item asciilifeform had; somewhat surprised that it turned up on www with minimal effort
BingoBoingo: Actually, sort of. As late as 1994-ish
asciilifeform: https://57.img.avito.st/640x480/3519579257.jpg << better pic
BingoBoingo: Were sold at local bookstore. There was even electricity kit where lightbulb, battery, and wire was offered.
asciilifeform: not quite same
asciilifeform: here was explicit teaching of useful 13337ski111z for dyin'formotherland
BingoBoingo: Ah not quite the same then, thing I am thinking of came in box same size and shape as "poptarts". Sold as "you know school sucks too much to teach this"
BingoBoingo: !!Up gribble
gribble: Error: "!Up" is not a valid command.
deedbot: gribble voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 5798.99, vol: 24018.43 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 5889.0, vol: 3789.33 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 5808.9, vol: 105254.63 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 5790.0, vol: 29298.53 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 5799.9, vol: 10452.24 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 5782.07, vol: 17737.44 | OKCoin BTCUSD last: 5836.8, vol: 6258.49 | Volume-weighted last average: 5804.41
BingoBoingo: Now that's a crashing!
mircea_popescu: holy shit we're crashed all the way almost!
mircea_popescu: http://78.media.tumblr.com/3b5b00a7122d7f4e6108b93d934361ba/tumblr_o8ty5hVVdh1uwe6two3_1280.jpg << speaking of mini-macs with open-bsds...
deedbot: shinohai: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ly3Vw/?raw=true
deedbot: ccmtacks: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/fGVdK/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: this shit's a wonder to watch at work.
trinque: ^ lemme know if those look goofy. process that spat them out is brand new.
trinque: should be good tho
mircea_popescu: seem fine to me.
mircea_popescu: aaand in the same female form, http://78.media.tumblr.com/70ef88d8decb2378fbd1a988b156ec79/tumblr_np0p0rapsi1shmurko6_1280.jpg
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014/ << Trilema - Remember the security hole Automattic refused to fix back in 2014 ?
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014/ << Trilema - Remember the security hole Automattic refused to fix back in 2014 ?
mircea_popescu: heh
apeloyee: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-12#1724608 << for some reason the subword shift is in-place, whereas the full-word shift isn't☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-12 23:49 asciilifeform: if anyone can see obvious 'this can be simpler' or 'this dun make sense' plz write in.
apeloyee: e.g. the right shift main loop would look like http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XEvpD/?raw=true
apeloyee: by the way, the bot which saved pastes on archive.is doesn't seem to do it anymore.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724859 << nifty variant, i'ma see how it compares speedwise☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 11:18 apeloyee: e.g. the right shift main loop would look like http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XEvpD/?raw=true
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724860 << trinque was this a deedbot feature ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 11:19 apeloyee: by the way, the bot which saved pastes on archive.is doesn't seem to do it anymore.
shinohai: asciilifeform: think it was a scriba feature .... though bot appears to be present
mod6: mornin'
mod6: that's a mighty useful feature too btw.
mod6: we've gotta have that.
shinohai: Heya mod6 .... morning
mod6: how you doin' shinohai?
shinohai: Not too bad, got jhvh1 back online now catching up on logs
mod6: sweet
mod6: ive been writing unit test for ffa
shinohai: Awesum ... I'm going to take a look at the thing asciilifeform posted last night later, gotta get Excedrin for preemptive strike on headaches lol
mod6: haha. werd.
mod6: i don't have a ton of coverage yet -- just mainly around the fz bitwise ops, fz_add, fz_mult, handfull of others.
mod6: im hoping to get some tests around the shifting procedures possibly today or this weekend. alf's latest changes from yesterday would fit into that as well.
mod6: i hope to glean some deeper understanding of the secret shifting from these tests as well.
mod6: im certain that even the tests that I do have are missing certain cases -- but its a starting point. and when I publish these, the hope is that people here can help fill in the gaps of the coverage so we can use this as a means to ensure that we do not regress as changes occur to the code.
mod6: again, these are unit tests, not functional, integration, or performance tests. meaning: i simply call a (so far public) procedure/function within ffa with specific parameters, and expect specific outputs.
mod6: once we have some solid unit tests in place, i'll look at some functional tests as a higher-level way to ensure we don't regress as well. but that's a bit later yet.
mod6: probably won't even start until we're closer to a finalized version of ffa.
asciilifeform: mod6: the key imho re a ffa tester, is that it gotta exist ~outside~ of ffa, and use a traditional, known-to-produce-correct-numberz ( and ideally, more than one ) arithm stack
asciilifeform: mod6: my current ( unpublished, quite yet, because it relies on details of 'p' ) item, uses python's
mod6: sure.
asciilifeform: mod6: you could just as readily use, e.g., gnu 'bc'
mod6: that's more of a higher-level, functional style test.
asciilifeform: or perl; or even mpi(c)
mod6: i believe there to be a lot of merit to having unit tests around the specific procedures and functions in ffa.
asciilifeform: mod6: whichever type of test you're making, it certainly won't hurt.
mod6: so, that's what I'm spending time on now anyway. and, making good progress in a short amount of time. however, ya, many gaps i msure.
mod6: *im sure
asciilifeform: the tricky bit is to avoid getting into 'quis custodiet ipsos custodes' trap.
mod6: say what
asciilifeform: 'now gotta write tests for the tests' etc
mod6: ah. right.
mod6: well, they're hopefully clear enough to be understood.
asciilifeform: some ops you can easily check result of, by hand ( shifts, add/sub )
mod6: right.
mod6: we'll see how hairy it gets :]
asciilifeform: have fun mod6
mod6: the fz_mux wasn't too bad, etc.
asciilifeform: keep in mind that ffa ( esp. the more recent items ) will change.
asciilifeform: and incidentally don't assume that the current forms, are the ideal and shortest/clearest possible
mod6: to understand the thing, one can simply do the: B ^ ((S - 1) & (A ^ B)) on a calc
asciilifeform: it is quite conceivable that you can turn up an improved/cycle-shaving/clearer etc version of this or that
asciilifeform: apeloyee for instance did today
mod6: aha, this indeed may be the case - something found. but the main interest "does it do what it ~should~ do, given these inputs"
asciilifeform: aha
mod6: that's the aim anyway. but, yah, might find something along the way too.
mod6: ANNND. hopefully will grok moar as well.
mod6: a way of doing necessary work, and forcing myself to do the maff at the same time.
asciilifeform: mod6: there are serious ughs that need fixing, also. for instance to get rid of 'Natural' and 'Positive' and throw out the mess of conversions to and from Word
asciilifeform: the current item is problematic on (hypothetical, i don't have one for which gnat builds) 8-bit archs
asciilifeform: because 8 bits is not enough to index a useful number of 8-bit words
mod6: The hope here is... when these changes are made, the given inputs still match the expected outputs.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724863 << nope, not deedbot. Framedragger's bot?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 13:14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724860 << trinque was this a deedbot feature ?
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: so there has to be a synthetic (i.e. Unsigned_32 ) type , that on archs that have narrower bitness than that, ends up a doubleword
asciilifeform: and FZ array gotta be indexed ~by~ it
asciilifeform: note that this will result in exactly the same binary as builds now, on pc
mod6: see... i thought so too.. because yesterday i was digging up our conversation from august of '15 where we were looking at gnupg -- that night we had like 69 pastes.
asciilifeform: but will make the code 1) more readable 2) buildable for 8bit, in theory, cpu
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724860 << god damn it, nothing worse than unreliable archives.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 11:19 apeloyee: by the way, the bot which saved pastes on archive.is doesn't seem to do it anymore.
mod6: and Framedragger came along and did that handy thing and archived all that stuff. really, can't live without that bot.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik it was a scriba feature. Framedragger !!1111
asciilifeform: i tend to distrust archives, save things manually
asciilifeform: esp. archives run by fuckknowswhom
mod6: that is fair.
mod6: but for the ages.
mod6: unless you wanna give me access to your drive
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform theoretically it also gets the zips. at least iirc.
asciilifeform: archives are a necessary thing, but really oughta be auto-mirrored
mod6: <+asciilifeform> so there has to be a synthetic (i.e. Unsigned_32 ) type , that on archs that have narrower bitness than that, ends up a doubleword << ah, i see.
asciilifeform: 1 d00d and his box is really quite same as ' asciilifeform's hdd '
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mod6: it adds so much to the history though. being able to see wtf we were talking about.
mircea_popescu: i am loath to put "and load this website" into the eg log bot spec.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah.
asciilifeform: mod6: current ffa has no problem building and running with 32bit word; but it will not do useful work in 8/16bit msdos, and this needs fix ( i described simple fix above. my priority atm tho is barrettron and practical rsa demo )
mod6: asciilifeform: sure. makes sense.
mod6: anyway, i don't wanna be a distraction. am simply, hopefully, on a useful side-quest.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724903 << this is why i wouldn't recommend writing tests for it for any other reason than learning / checking. it's a prototype yet, only the growth spur should be checked as it were.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 15:14 asciilifeform: keep in mind that ffa ( esp. the more recent items ) will change.
asciilifeform: mod6: even if you only read it, and did not write, it is still not wasted time
asciilifeform: i intend for the whole lot of l1, to eventually read it
asciilifeform: and understand it the way a man packing a parachute understands.
mod6: agreed ^
asciilifeform: in the end you will have 'written ffa' nearly same as asciilifeform had.
asciilifeform: or at any rate this is the condition for success
trinque: actually mircea_popescu's solution to forcing miners to hold all blocks could conceivably used to hire hosting for the archive from whoever has space. folks register with eg deedbot, must produce hash of all archived items at interval to receive a small bitcoin payout, flowing from subscribers to the archive service.
mod6: mircea_popescu: understood. it is more a learning process than anything at this point.
mircea_popescu: trinque entirely feasible but let's revisit in next year.
trinque: must also provide a web endpoint for the archive, etc
mircea_popescu: mod6 yee
trinque: sure, not going to break ground on it
mircea_popescu: mod6 in any case don't completely abandon the trb-v castle, you're like our last guy there i fear
asciilifeform: trinque, mircea_popescu : this is actually a variation on an ancient and imho interesting theme, the 'aeternity service' or what was it called, early attempt at 'bitcoinism' and p2p warez combo, 'proof of storage'
mircea_popescu: which, incindentally, is pretty terrible.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
mod6: mircea_popescu: aha, indeed Sir.
mod6: speaking of trinque's usage of polarbeard's rawtx vpatch -- im planning to get deeper into that this month.
mircea_popescu: should ideally be v-ified properly etc.
mircea_popescu: !~seen polarbeard
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: I have not seen polarbeard.
asciilifeform: ( incidentally recall 1980s game copyprotection lameness with elementary 'proof of storage' ?? 'answer, player, what is 51th word on 11th page paragraph 3 !1111' )
mircea_popescu: eh wth.
mod6: iirc I had created a proper vpatch of the thing last year, but we never wrapped up all the testing. i'd like to revisit that.
mircea_popescu: apr 2016.
mod6 looks
mircea_popescu: anyway, i tried /invite polarbeard but * polarbeard :No such nick/channel ; anyone know him irl drop a line ?
mircea_popescu: pity guy left, totally got teh wrong impression re tmsr.
asciilifeform: iirc was in ben_vulpes's l2 ? or trinque's ?
mircea_popescu: a, was he ?
asciilifeform: somebody's distant l2 ( l3 ) ? d00d
asciilifeform: iirc he ended up barfing from 'all my patches rejected!111'
asciilifeform: 'for arbitrary reasons, made no sense'
mircea_popescu: in other tardstalk lulzgems, https://www.blackhatworld.com/attachments/fb_img_1507907065465-jpg.96283
mircea_popescu: yes, complete with the pixelization and the fb_img etc.
asciilifeform: i get eggog
asciilifeform: 'must be logged in'
mircea_popescu: let's rehost
mod6: ah yeah, i do have a rawtx on sitting here -- just needs testing. also, still have some makefile changes that are needing some testing/review. and further, want to put in some requested changes to import/dump priv key.
mod6: plenty-o-thangs
trinque: the introduction of new classes should be perma-banned
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-14#1714240☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-14 05:30 trinque: in the process, realized I oughta publically denounce something in the funkenstein importprivkey/dumpprivkey patch
mod6: I dunno about perma-banned, but I do see what you mean by that trinque, in this specific case.
mod6: Submit me a vpatch, Sir.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://www.hispachan.org/g/src/150790945869.jpg
asciilifeform: lol!
asciilifeform: 'electroneum'
mircea_popescu: you know ?
asciilifeform: i had nfi!!
trinque: mod6: I dunno how you make the thing intelligible while walking further into C++ madness
mircea_popescu: perineum prolly next.
mircea_popescu: if THAT dun have proof of work...
asciilifeform: 'Two Digits, 14.99 ETN Feels Right'
asciilifeform: gold.
mircea_popescu: pretty much run-down of all stupids.
mod6: trinque: i didn't say we /should/ add more classes.
asciilifeform: 'As Easy as Playing Mobile Games' 'Mine & Earn Coins From Your Phone' << slavecoin ?!!
asciilifeform: !#s slavecoin
a111: 46 results for "slavecoin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=slavecoin
trinque: mod6: sure sure, I admit being hyperbolic
asciilifeform still waiting for slavecoin
trinque: I do owe a few patches at this point. btw, am using sendrawtransaction with deedbot, works so far.
mod6: sweet :]
mircea_popescu: trinque you won't be able to fix trb into sanity without new classes.
mircea_popescu: both theory and experience show this, sadly.
mod6: and please do send 'em my way when you have time
mircea_popescu: now, that they should be used sparsely is certainly true.
mod6: i know you're pretty swamped -- when you're comfortable with deedbots changes, etc. you know.
asciilifeform: sooner turn pig into a professor of mathematics, than cpp trb into sanity.
trinque: if they demolish old, muddy concepts that's far better than subclassing the mud
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevermind the actual implementation. the design/concept however you call it.
mircea_popescu: when we're discussiong classes we're not automatically discussing an impl. it's a data model.
asciilifeform: i understood trinque to be referring to classes in literal cpp sense
mircea_popescu: i did not.
asciilifeform: ( based on the log link )
jhvh1: Gracias Sr. mircea_popescu!
mircea_popescu: based on same lol.
mircea_popescu: shinohai lol wut ?
jhvh1: It is good to be self-aware again
jhvh1: >.>
mod6: ohmahgerd, it's alive
mircea_popescu: don't be doing that, not doing it is in the spec!
trinque: mod6: I did lose a transaction in a node's mempool the other day using it. was clearly there, sitting, going nowhere.
trinque: fed to another node, went fine
trinque: I dunno who to blame for that yet
mod6: ah.
mircea_popescu: trinque one working model : all the nodes node 1 was connected to decided "it is spam", because they can do this now, so they didn't forward it but also didn't tell node 1. same did not hold for node 2.
mircea_popescu: typical sybilling, happens and has happened tons, which is why it's important to talk to many nodes for payment safety.
mircea_popescu: and EVEN IF maintaining a large (and, obviously, expensive) network of nodes etc, you can still run into surprises, as the bitbet issue very well illustrates.
trinque: mhm. node 1 sits on a domestic line; 2, commercial. I could see it
mircea_popescu: you'll end up with node lists, fingerprinting, mothership identification, the whole shebang.
mircea_popescu: if you keep money and man-hours into this, you'll eventually reach that vaunted summit.
mircea_popescu: you know, like the ahrefs guy.
mod6: please do keep reporting such irregularities though.
mircea_popescu: (amusingly, this node-sybil-pie entirely exists BECAUSE IT CAN exist. think in GT terms : at t1 it doesn't exist. at t2, player 1 figures out it could exist, whether it can or not, and takes defensive meansures. at t3, some bug in player1's implementation is exploited (consciously or accidentally) and now... it DOES exist.)
mircea_popescu: human problem of meta is that humans can think outside the box. they end up choking each other with the unintentional by-products of that thinking.
mircea_popescu: now THIS would be some interesting ecology, of the "keep the world safe for your children" kind.
mircea_popescu: mental warming is a thing.
lobbesbot: !!up lobbes
deedbot: lobbes voiced for 30 minutes.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724782 << I am more than willing to make required tweaks to get something like this working (allowing auctions to be denominated in btc as well as ecu, having lobbesbot spit out deedbot invoice, etc)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 01:55 mircea_popescu: trinque can directly push lobbes 's bot into it, what more is needed ? we have all the parts.
lobbes: Also gotta figure out where auctions would happen. I'd imagine #t wouldn't be keen on the auctions taking place in this channel. Would be a lot of added noise.
mircea_popescu: lobbes yeah, we'll get to this in the coming weeks.
mircea_popescu: tbh, i don't think doing it in #trilema is either unfeasible or a bad idea.
mircea_popescu: the forum happens in the marketplace for a reason.
lobbes: That is a point. I can always tweak the announces to be less frequent as people see fit anyways
mircea_popescu: exactly. which is why that's that way hehee
shinohai: I can't remember what I did with it lobbes .... but there was a plugin that let you announce a msg only to folks subscribed to it.
trinque: commerce happening here wont annoy me!
shinohai: Me neither tbh
mircea_popescu: shinohai you might be using different bot bases.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, all sorts of options available. can readily just use pastebin if it gets bad
mircea_popescu: though honestly, may take a while for it to become a problem.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1725034 << the fundamental problem is the ~completely imaginary incentive structure for the expected node operations ( store, verify, relay)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 15:40 mircea_popescu: trinque one working model : all the nodes node 1 was connected to decided "it is spam", because they can do this now, so they didn't forward it but also didn't tell node 1. same did not hold for node 2.
asciilifeform: see also canonical thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618589 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:22 mircea_popescu: basically nodes are the digital equivalent of women : men fuck them so the state can have babies. hurr durr, pill plox.
mircea_popescu: ell of course
asciilifeform: the 'because you oughta!11' relaying can and does end up in same place as other 'because you oughtas' socialisms
asciilifeform: it is, to lift from another mircea_popescu article, 'a thrown brick, not airplane'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1725038 << every time i sit down to think about this megaproblem , inevitably come to the conclusion that the threeway cut was a mistake☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 15:42 mircea_popescu: you'll end up with node lists, fingerprinting, mothership identification, the whole shebang.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that they're not automatically diffedrent just because they could be.
mircea_popescu: satoshi made an engineering mistake, taking the assumption the wrong way
asciilifeform: instead of colluding miners, mendacious nodes, and 'gimmme ERRYTHINGFORPHREEEE!' entitled users -- can in principle have 1.
shinohai: http://archive.is/CbLsp <<< If adding ethereum, shapeshit, and BitcoinCrash wasnt enough ......
shinohai: This is the lulziest bit: " If you have transactions to make around late November, we suggest you buy some Ether in our wallet today. "
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: LOGIC!
mircea_popescu: basically the excel-powered secret agent strategy has become "try to disrupt bitcoin by creating fud on social media". which works to... disrupt usage by the usg's own muppets, the redditards, wikitards and assoerted other dust mongers ? which is somehow bad for bitcoin, or even noticeable or something ?
mircea_popescu: hey USG - take your useless sheep and drown them all for what anyone cares. seriously now.
mircea_popescu: usgtronic headcount is not worth money.
asciilifeform: gotta wonder how it was pictured to work -- 'if all the pennies in the sofas added up and made britney and coke, why not to make our shitcoin worth sumthing' ?
mircea_popescu: more like "this bitcoin is like britney, entirely built out of pennies and walmart e-cards"
mircea_popescu: hurr durr.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, apparently taking a few heads here and there creates exactly no conception of own vulnerability in the rest of the heads.
asciilifeform: ( one difference, readily visible to naked eye, is that britney was made back when the sofas ~actually contained~ some pennies )
mircea_popescu: there's a great gif with a stupid little girl confronting a lion from behind a glass pane.
asciilifeform: it was in a trilema
mircea_popescu: this has apparently become a major psychological liability for the crowd, they imagine that since everything they ever encountered was safely behind bulletproof glass, that's "just how life is".
mircea_popescu: will unavoidably come to gore.
asciilifeform: there was a famous incident of a d00d who went around looking for bears
asciilifeform: anyone recall this ?
mircea_popescu: well, these fucktards are going around looking for chtulhu.
asciilifeform: ( ended up not only eaten, but with camera rolling )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check out this lulz https://www.blackhatworld.com/seo/facebook-new-accounts.979434/#post-10480716
mircea_popescu: "he tried to trick them"
asciilifeform: back to spamschool for'em
asciilifeform: незачет!
mircea_popescu: this is what i think when i think orc engineering
asciilifeform: this is what i think of sp4mz0rz of whatever type, incl. the ones with '1,000 servers' ( and previous years with 'million bots' ) etc
mircea_popescu: "i tried stuffing all the stick and rock types i could find in all the holes that there were and even some that i made. why airplane not wash jocularstrap ???"
asciilifeform: they're illiterates and chasing after imaginary moneys, while wrecking whatever they touch
asciilifeform: ( and empowering usg 'mitigators' )
asciilifeform: exactly like the wp spammer discussed in http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014
mircea_popescu: an autistic child you didn't kill at the age of 7 will support a whole comicbook industry until age 70 ?
asciilifeform: 1 -- prolly not, million -- could
mircea_popescu: evidently.
asciilifeform was about to say 'no 1 spammer ever wrecked anything substantial' but then recalled usenet
mircea_popescu: heh
shinohai: In kitchen accessories: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/kitchenacc.jpeg
mircea_popescu: are the blades inside ?
asciilifeform: http://p.ocdn.ee/4/i/2015/11/12/tfkyk4ty.t3l.jpg << in other mega-chix
asciilifeform: ^ head crown prosecutor of estonia ( at least at the time )
shinohai: "I prosecute all the meth-heads and STEAL THEIR STASH! Bwahahahaha"
asciilifeform: Kati Reitsak
asciilifeform: prosecuted e.g. https://news.postimees.ee/3222207/the-assar-paulus-gang-finally-faces-court
asciilifeform: apparently cult meme figure in orcdom.
asciilifeform: https://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/1/3/1/6562131.jpg << e.g.
mircea_popescu: not even a terrible gig
mircea_popescu: more meth she steals more effective she gets more meth she steals etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that last pic dun work for all the diff it makes
asciilifeform: was doll version of reitsak
asciilifeform: and asciilifeform must confess, notterrible chix also.
asciilifeform: when it's my turn to get freislered, i'd like to be tried by ~that~ freisler.
mircea_popescu: de gustibus...
asciilifeform: aaaha
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 5549.99, vol: 27743.23574480 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 5589.5, vol: 100804.08249558 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4280.016, vol: 0 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 5525.6, vol: 9517.72500364 | Volume-weighted last average: 5577.15568871
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in ffaism, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724861 >>>>> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6NmsZ/?raw=true☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 13:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1724859 << nifty variant, i'ma see how it compares speedwise
asciilifeform: hats off to apeloyee for the tip.
mod6: asciilifeform: i like the added comments in there. keep it up.
asciilifeform: mod6: i will confess, very much not satisfied with the comments, prolly comments should be written by someone else -- perhaps mod6
asciilifeform: or ben_vulpes , he did pretty good commentary to orig. vtron
mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.45364891 13YczpPCDAxBWQwMmNyyAASHYR4EmbwagP
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rpke2/?raw=true
mod6: ah, interesting.
mod6: i do also think there could be paragraphs even written around certain procedures in ffa. but not sure if that belongs in the code, or as a corresponding document outside of the code.
asciilifeform: mod6: imho detailed what-why-how belongs outside
mod6: and ya, that's what i mean, more or less. what/why/how type of explanations.
mod6: but the comments I've seen in there are helpful, as long as they are accurate.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's notion was that he'd write it against a backdrop of 'why didja do x' in l0gz
asciilifeform: ( otherwise same problem as writing 'faq' without anyone actually having asked any q )
mod6: perhaps -- i certainly think it's good to link l0gz in footnotes or whatnot. the what/why/how doc aught to summarize all of thinking/decision making that went into the code.
mod6: i'm probably getting ahead of myself though. was just saying "*thumbs-up*" on comments.
mod6: :]
asciilifeform: lolk
asciilifeform: this is not bad time to ask the tuned-in folx, what parts of ffa they would like to see explained in moardetail.
mircea_popescu: ifaq
mircea_popescu: qtshbfa
asciilifeform: iirc there was a 'cpp ifaq'
asciilifeform: riotously lulzy piece
mod6: Here's a dumb question...
mod6: what does 'P' stand for when you say "FZ_OddP" or "FZ_EvenP" ... etc? Parameter?
mircea_popescu: in other lulz - forum chick got warned for posting inappropriate content, in the shape of basically a rewrite of http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014/ (and a ton of bois pm-ing excitedly about "omg i saw that thread before it was deleted, r u real haxxor???").
mircea_popescu: apparently the black hat is black from pantsuit dust.
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: Looks like the Pinoys can't do it: "hello sir I'm sorry to inform you that it is not possible to met your requirement of 14Gigabits but our offer of 10mbps for 504 USD and  we can upgrade that as your needs increase still stands." -jolo
mircea_popescu: a 10mbps rack ?!
BingoBoingo: 4srs
mircea_popescu: what is this lulz.
BingoBoingo: Island brain damage?
BingoBoingo: For context that was his answer to: "
BingoBoingo: I really need something much closer to 14 Gigabits per second. I understand that this will have a price attached to it."
BingoBoingo: Which I offered in reply to his first mention of 10mbps hoping he got the letters confused
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-13#1725153 << predicate☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-13 21:07 mod6: what does 'P' stand for when you say "FZ_OddP" or "FZ_EvenP" ... etc? Parameter?
asciilifeform: lispworld tradition.
mod6: ahh, gotcha. thx
shinohai: http://archive.is/cUss2 << Sadly there is no qntra for these lulz
mircea_popescu: in even further lulz, there apparently exists a dharvard university in indja.
shinohai: Maybe Preet can get a job there lol
mircea_popescu: i expect.