▁▁▁⏐︎▁▁ 3915
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes so you went like from oregon to washington ?
ben_vulpes: mhm
mircea_popescu recalls the time oregon was in the same way
mircea_popescu: and cigarettes were 10 cents
shinohai: http://archive.is/JGgow <<< I trust this report, since this guy is the world's leading authority on viruses and all.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3974.25, vol: 17426.72326171 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3966.6, vol: 62412.87882297 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3754.576517, vol: 1861.21940000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3974.9, vol: 7766.73859145 | Volume-weighted last average: 3964.39982983
ben_vulpes: california hep outbreak continues to be totally contained: ¸http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-san-diego-hepatitis-20170918-story.html
mircea_popescu: goes great with the bedbugs and syphilis.
BingoBoingo: bedbugs are no where near peaked yet
BingoBoingo: relatit 14 year old lulz http://articles.latimes.com/2003/sep/11/home/hm-ants11
BingoBoingo: Spoiler: Chalk contains hella deltamethrin and other pyrethroids making it incredi-safe, US still has no better approved alternative
BingoBoingo: Compare to 13 years later: "In response, this week Michigan officials are considering new rules to limit the use of the pesticide. If the rules are approved, as expected, Michigan would join a growing number of states and the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in trying to prevent the misuse of methomyl, in part by restricting who can buy it and requiring new warning labels. But some observers fear the labels—which depict a
BingoBoingo: raccoon in a red circle with a slash through it—might unintentionally make matters worse."
BingoBoingo: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/02/regulators-move-limit-wildlife-deaths-misuse-deadly-fly-killer
BingoBoingo: ^ EPA approved
BingoBoingo: More for the posteriority: "“It’s indiscriminate, intentional poisoning of wildlife,” says Brian Rowe, who recently retired as pesticide section manager at the Michigan Department of Agriculture & Rural Development in Lansing. “Some of them die with their face in the pan that they’re licking out of. I mean, it kills them that quick.”"
BingoBoingo: Actual field research shows consumers read no pesticide labels whatsoever and just look for aeresol cans, then cycle cans until one has desired effect: "EPA officials say no such testing occurred, but are confident that people will read the new labels as intended. The agency notes that text below the symbol reads “it is illegal to use this product with the intention to kill raccoons, skunks, opossums, coyotes, wolves, dogs, cats, or an
BingoBoingo: y other non-target species.”"
mircea_popescu: lol illegal intentions
asciilifeform: why not straight to sarin, lol
asciilifeform: why settle for small change.
mircea_popescu: well, racoons are a very successful sort of rat. as a result, they don't have any friends among the people they interact with on any kind of regular basis. kinda like pigeons, actually.
asciilifeform: we have'em here, gigantic rat aha
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Because sarin, like malathion and vx has a repellent effect for the lucky to get a whiff from sufficient distance
asciilifeform: but not a bigger rat than the fucking corn eaters.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> well, racoons are a very successful sort of rat. as a result, they don't have any friends among the people they interact with on any kind of regular basis. kinda like pigeons, actually. << Aha, like their namesake. For people interacting with them occasionally "entertaining", in constant contact universally nuissance
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but not a bigger rat than the fucking corn eaters. << raccoons are corn eaters!
asciilifeform: there's no limit to whom or what the cornfed 'civilization' is willing to poison, to keep the nonsense going for another day
asciilifeform: ( recall mircea_popescu's 'ban on trees' piece. )
BingoBoingo: AHA
BingoBoingo: Anyways the Chicom repellent chalk by comparison is peak sanity
BingoBoingo: Mild neurotoxin with strong repellent properties in solid binder... as opposed to atomizer mist device
trinque: or folks could put away their food, even.
asciilifeform: naah trinque that's clearly Not Possible !1!! instead idjits will exterminate large mammals so we can be beset with fast-breeding, small ones, like in rat temple in india
BingoBoingo: Hey, when's the last time you've seen deer attack adult human out of hunger? Mouse WILL!!!
asciilifeform: rats will clean invalid, infant, other immobile meat, like pirannha.
trinque has a cat for murdering those, roaches, w/e crawls and therefore mustest die.
trinque: and hell I'll keep a spider around too if it's not bothering me
trinque: there's a little wolf guy living in my truck somewhere at the moment
asciilifeform: trinque: how'd you react to neighbour cornfuck leaving poisoned bait for your beast to find ? ☟︎
trinque: not kindly
mircea_popescu: trinque the blessings of the plains folk. up here, there's no flies, no roaches, no nothing.
mircea_popescu: i do have a lot of geckos, but tbh they're great.
asciilifeform: the astonishing thing is that even here there are geckos.
asciilifeform: or something quite similar, not wholly sure
trinque: lots of them here too, cute little bastards
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> trinque: how'd you react to neighbour cornfuck leaving poisoned bait for your beast to find ? << 90% of successful pest control is geography
BingoBoingo: Including neighbor selection
asciilifeform: 'don't like lice? don't live in gulag' -- such breakthrough!11
BingoBoingo: Another 9% is in critters you keep.
trinque: ^
BingoBoingo: 0.9% is pyrethroid repellents
BingoBoingo: The remaininder is unrestrained chemical warfare with organophosphate nerve agents on known problems.
trinque: not like I don't spray a perimeter around my home, but other than that, if there's nothing to eat, there's nothing to eat
BingoBoingo: But sometimes you wanna grow a tomato and there's a fucker growing corn within 85 miles which puts you within a day's flight of stinkbug horde
trinque: you're gonna get the occasional wood roach flying through the room, but then the girl screams and free comedy
trinque: BingoBoingo: tru
trinque: original thread was (or I'm tired) that chicom area denial chalk (TM)
trinque: if growing outside, probably going to need sprays
BingoBoingo: Yeah Safe Chicom Chalk, vs. US fly/coon bait mega poison
trinque gonna go park brain for the night
trinque: cya
BingoBoingo: Have fun.
BingoBoingo: In other, more recent ripped from the headlines: "Woman complains Hobby Lobby’s raw cotton decor is racially insensitive "
BingoBoingo: And a laff:"On Sunday night, as police officers marched downtown, a Post-Dispatch photographer heard them chant a refrain most often heard at Ferguson protests: “Whose streets? Our streets.”"
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/09/actual-healines-found-on-mainstream-fake-news-publications/ << Qntra - Actual Healines Found On Mainstream "Fake News" Publications
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: perhaps meant headlines?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Fuck, ty, fxd
BingoBoingo: In other news, there's a new season of South Park
BingoBoingo: Only heard about if 4 days after it started
BingoBoingo: The mine where I found out https://www.alternet.org/culture/why-south-park-perfectly-armed-fight-alt-right
deedbot: deeds online
trinque: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
asciilifeform: in other trilema-plagiarism arts , https://archive.is/M7Mse << '...many of these self-styled online radicals were actually military contractors, drawing salaries with benefits from the very same U.S. national security state they claimed to be fighting. Their spunky crypto-tech also turned out, on closer inspection, to be a jury-rigged and porous Potemkin Village version of secure digital communications. What’s more, the relevant so
asciilifeform: ftware here was itself financed by the U.S. government: millions of dollars a year flowing to crypto radicals from the Pentagon, the State Department, and organizations spun off from the CIA.'
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/09/19/strawberry-creek-wunderland/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Strawberry Creek Wunderland
asciilifeform: !!up acataleptic
deedbot: acataleptic voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: acataleptic: who might you be ?
acataleptic: nobody of any importance. friends of friends of friends directed me here.
trinque: IP out of good old san francisco
trinque: has the forum yet digested a calitard? ☟︎
ben_vulpes: not afaik
ben_vulpes: g_l will protest the claim
trinque: popcorn kernel stuck in throat isn't digestion, lol
asciilifeform: !!up fromdeedbot
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
fromdeedbot: who owns this service ☟︎
ben_vulpes: fromdeedbot: which service
fromdeedbot: deedbot.org
ben_vulpes: trinque does
fromdeedbot: I want my information removed from your site ☟︎
ben_vulpes: haw haw haw
asciilifeform: ahahahahahahaha
ben_vulpes: well who are you?
fromdeedbot: wouldnt you like to know
trinque: lol? so how am I to know "my" then?
asciilifeform: a tard, apparently, who else
ben_vulpes: ahahaha this is choice
fromdeedbot: eheheheh
fromdeedbot: neckbeards
trinque: !!down fromdeedbot
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/little-miss-pretty/ << Trilema - Little Miss Pretty
BingoBoingo: lol @ motto of the day!
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/09/us-president-trump-makes-first-address-to-un/ << Qntra - US President Trump Makes First Address To UN
trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Go1za/?raw=true << so get this
ben_vulpes: did not even bother to specify which information?
trinque: "but I have lifelock!"
ben_vulpes: gotta lead em on a bit for max lulz, "hm, what informations are we talking about here?"
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-23#1249399 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-08-23 05:06 trinque: I demand for this to never have happened at once!
shinohai: Same individual in #otc trinque 14:21:52 -- [day___] (5ac0f111@gateway/web/freenode/ip. - http://webchat.freenode.net
asciilifeform: i suspect trollage
asciilifeform: otherwise it'd look moar like 'hi i am magicaltux and i demand that you unnegrate me at once!'
BingoBoingo: Could be Equifax!
shinohai: Equifags
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715795 << that part was pretty lulzy. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 18:02 fromdeedbot: I want my information removed from your site
shinohai: rm -rf myinformation/*
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715785 << hanbot was born and raised in san diego. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 17:22 trinque: has the forum yet digested a calitard?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715791 << bwajhahaha o lordy. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 18:00 fromdeedbot: who owns this service
trinque: even teh pantsuit law reads: "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."
trinque: something really must be done
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure what the claim is supposed to be. prolly grubles dicking about.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, there's a by now lengthy comet tails' worth of idiots who WERE NOT CONSULTED.
asciilifeform: there was goat or somesuch
asciilifeform: who was the d00d with the ddostron
trinque: I guess we'll never know; guy assumed I read thoughts.
shinohai: 15:13:42 +mimisbrunnr 486018: 000000000000000000ef605f3c5d45bb1228223474e8d2870bd82c2d52f556cb (6h, 52m, 0s) <<< jeez
asciilifeform: nsa had to swap tapes on the splice, wat
ben_vulpes: heh i've been waiting for that
ben_vulpes: was reporting 20+ connections and exhibiting no signs of blackhole
ben_vulpes: just...no new blocks. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: mouth now open, waiting for them to pour in; found a non sybil i guess.
asciilifeform: trinque: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/76xSb/?raw=true
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'mouth open' is exact description of the block pull mechanism
asciilifeform: srsly , thing makes NO active effort to snarf new blox, other than at boot time
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: lol i got it from you
trinque: asciilifeform: ack, ty
ben_vulpes: and in other things american hospitals are willing to charge a tidy hundo to use a single item of: http://www.ebay.com/itm/McKesson-Rapid-Diagnostic-Test-Kit-Medi-Lab-Performance-Strep-A-CLIA-Waived-2-/122676899273?hash=item1c901cedc9:g:DzcAAOSw9ENZpvbV
ben_vulpes: lol and earlier today this read "Emacs and VIM users 2X as likely to pass technical interviews as Eclipse users": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15285927
asciilifeform: somebody still does technicalinterviews ?!!
ben_vulpes: people still fuck goats, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: i thought that at this point everybody just does the 5min litmus test ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( put whatever in d00d's hands, say snipped of x86 asm, or the like, and watch if eyes/hands light up in obviously correct motions, or if cow stare )
asciilifeform: *snippet
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/JHUvM/?raw=true << in other lulz. i'll skip to the money shot: 'It is the sense of Congress that WikiLeaks and the senior leadership of WikiLeaks resemble a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors and should be treated as such a service by the United States.'
asciilifeform: other lulz include 'Section 402 requires the DNI, within 30 days of enactment, to sponsor a security clearance for each eligible chief election official of a State, territory, or the District of Columbia (and up to one eligible designee), up to the top secret level. Section 402 also requires the DNI to share appropriate classified information-related threats to election systems and to the integrity of the election process with chief
asciilifeform: election officials and their designees who possess the aforementioned security clearances.'
asciilifeform: ( translation from usg limba de lemn : 'there will now be concrete penalties for exposing dnc diddling of elections' ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: also didjaknow, 'Section 609 requires the DNI, in coordination with the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of FBI, the Director of CIA, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, and the Secretary of the Treasury, to develop a whole-of-government strategy for countering Russian cyber threats against United States electoral systems and processes'
asciilifeform: and finally, bonus 'bill of attainder' - 'Section 614 requires the Secretary of State, in executing the advance notification requirements of the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017, to ensure the Russian Federation provides two business days of advance notice to the Secretary prior to Russian diplomatic or consular travel...'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: qntra fodder ?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715850 << i stopped doing even those. i've had a couple of months of lulzy 5 minute litmus tests that resulted in 100% failure rate, which made me think that perhaps the whole "teach everyone!1 to program" basically means that s/n has finally approached 0. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 19:34 asciilifeform: i thought that at this point everybody just does the 5min litmus test
asciilifeform: phf: it was fascinating, i saw same thing, walk in 50 people and not 1 actually has ~any idea how to solve basic pons asinorum
asciilifeform: incl. folx with all imaginable paper 'qualifications', masters of sciences, perfect marks, whatever nonsense
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580642 << see also. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 19:36 asciilifeform: phf: to quote one such 'speshul trainflake' i encountered once, 'you should be making me an offer, and not asking me to do tricks'
phf: oh yeah, right, we did have a thread
phf: same thread as a guy who freaked the fuck out, because i told him to ssh into a box for the interview ☟︎
asciilifeform: that seems quite posh, vs usual chalk dust
phf: i was trying to be ~polite~. if you put "10 years of unix" on your resume, i sort of assume "tell me your favorite editor and then ssh into the box for interview" is a bushido level of politeness ☟︎
phf: i now realize though that "X years of unix" only works if it rolls over into the 90s. otherwise it's an irrelevant factoid
asciilifeform: this unfortunately applies to ~everything and ~anything else just the same
phf: asciilifeform: also i'm not sure if you've seen http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/tools.html
asciilifeform: phf: iirc it popped up in the 'bsd cat' thread
phf: ah i see
asciilifeform: but obvious q : how to square 'Support for multibyte characters in UTF-8 and many East Asian encodings.' with 'Derived from original Unix material released as Open Source by Caldera and Sun' and 'heirloominess' ??
trinque: also "this here cpio does zip"
asciilifeform: aaaaha
asciilifeform: btw 'bitcoin-heirloom' by mikehearn, gavin et al, when. ☟︎
phf: it's not republic software, so it's never going to be fully aligned
phf: but ~i think~ naive multibyte (though i haven't looked at particular implementation, i'm judging by something like nvi2) is less of an issue than outright gnuisms
asciilifeform: phf: it's the root of 90% of the bloat and outright retardation in the currently extant utils ☟︎
phf: i don't think that's right, since plan9 does _utf-8_ at fraction of complexity
phf: 90% of bloat and outright retardation comes from there being retards in the process. it's like cancer, it doesn't limit itself to only this type of tissue
asciilifeform: 'string length is now O(N)' is not compatible with concept of healthy tissue. period.
asciilifeform: not only length-finding, but subsectioning, search, just about any op
asciilifeform: variablybytedcharism is retarded, and sane folx don't push it.
phf: i don't know why you explain to me things that ~i argued in the past~. fwiw, i argued "utf-8 is a whole spittoon" back when the question of encoding first came up, to somewhat fierce opposition ☟︎
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Maybe?
asciilifeform: phf: you were quite right in the past. comment is re 'fraction of complexity' item
asciilifeform: it doesn't matter how variablebyteism is implemented, or by whom, is is simply badnoose.
asciilifeform: !!up barpub
deedbot: barpub voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: oh hey trinque we have a fella from yer favourite geography
asciilifeform: iirc.
barpub: it strikes me that variable-length encoding and ropes are natural complements
asciilifeform: barpub: ropes?
barpub: if you're stuck representing strings as flat arrays, yes, o(n)ism is a necessity
barpub: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_%28data_structure%29
asciilifeform: barpub: if you know where i can buy ram that ain't a flatarray, please tell
barpub: yes, only problem with content-addressable memory is I can't buy it
asciilifeform: presently EVERYBODY is 'representing strings as flat array', but some folx are lying to themselves about it
barpub: sure any binary tree has an underlying flat representation, because hardware itself enforces this
phf: i've actually tried putting ropes in a bunch of projects and they never have good performance characteristics. in fact for text editors no one has invented anything better than "one string per one line", and if you want to be fancy you split it at point (what emacs does) ☟︎
barpub: xi editor is pretty snappy, i've used it on multi-gb csvs
asciilifeform: ... and if you've decided to 'be fancy', go the whole hog and write a structure editor
asciilifeform: rather than some sad hybrid of bulldog and rhinoceros
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
barpub: agreed, but even a structure editor has, or should have, a prose mode
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 3890.73, vol: 15807.63131920 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 3892.5, vol: 50019.87163725 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 3780.807709, vol: 1356.96030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 3900.0, vol: 7148.02952009 | Volume-weighted last average: 3890.80583792
barpub: in which case the ast is just a rope and has no further semantics
phf: barpub: nah, real structure editor doesn't. but then i've no idea what asciilifeform is talking about. there's not really any real structure editors in production. i know of a dead one, and it's an interlisp programming environment
asciilifeform: that's the only 1 i know of aha
barpub: if there was a structure editor whose structures include free text, and one whose structures do not, i would pick the former
barpub: since i do write ordinary English from time to time, and would need in the latter case two programs when i want only one
asciilifeform: 'ropes' text not only replaces O(1) ops with O(log n), but introduces pointerism and the inevitable overflow ( when implemented, as all unixen are, in overflowlang ) and thus possibility of ill-formed structures , whereas ALL conventional strings are well-formed at birth
phf: i suspect xi trades snappiness for multi-gb use, which you don't notice, since you have to run it on the most recent mac (at least mac front end requires maxver xcode)
phf: asciilifeform: but you write it in rust, see!
asciilifeform: if i were to randomly flip a bit in a bitstring representing roped text, it will quite possibly turn it to liquishit. if i do the same to normal string, you have 1 bad char in 1 particular place.
barpub: it's the only example of a rope i've actual experience with
barpub: and robustness is a cogent and reasonable objection to using them
asciilifeform: incidentally anybody who really yearns for 'ropes', can approximate the effect on his box right now: go and directly edit a gzipped text...
asciilifeform: barpub: are you familiar with the concept of complexity-as-environmental-pollutant ?
barpub: i've read your blog if that's what you mean
asciilifeform: i'll take that as a yes then
barpub: so perhaps waiting until someone reboots the scheme chip, thus hardware-enforced cellularity, thus avoiding pointerism
barpub: is a reasonable prerequisite to having nice things, like ropes, and variable-length encoding
barpub: and if your bedrock is the byte, use ascii and hope for the best
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/09/latest-bitcoin-network-difficulty-adjustment-up-19-58-percent-to-new-all-time-high-as-chicoms-push-out-local-fiatbitcoin-trading-interfaces/ << Qntra - Latest Bitcoin Network Difficulty Adjustment: Up ~19.58 Percent To New All Time High As Chicoms Push Out Local fiat/Bitcoin Trading Interfaces
phf: additional point is that traditionally when someone said "multi-gb" what was really meant is "file bigger than can fit in memory", and suddenly(!11) your whole underlying editor algorithm changes drastically, because you have be doing partial updates, and temp files, and all kinds of cut-and-paste trickery. that's why emacs has a special cased "big file" support. with ropes if you want to achieve multi-gb that way you basically have to ☟︎
phf: make your ropes persist on disk, and then have a single pass that build ropes out of the complete contents of file (which you already have to do), and then you offload rope subtree that doesn't fit in memory, and then you edit the whole monster by swapping rope subtrees in and out, and FINALLY you have to walk the whole rope structure, file and memory alike, to serialize it back into file
asciilifeform: barpub: actually i've been having a pretty good time avoiding pointerism in, e.g., ffa, on ordinary pc
asciilifeform: phf: i never understood what's wrong with mmap for text editor of 'larger than memory' items
phf: asciilifeform: you can't insert
phf: and yes you have to use mmap, but that's not the end of the story by a long shot
barpub: memory should cache disk, implying the filesystem rep should also, yes, be a rope
barpub: or ast as case may be
barpub: again, predicated on hardware-level bedrock support for treelike structure
phf: i regret wasting time explaining
barpub: phf: up to you. i've already conceded the basic point: on actual hardware you can buy, ropes are fragile and corruptible and represent incidental complexity
asciilifeform: phf: string insert is O(N) troo!! but i can't escape the notion that if you're manually inserting INSIDE multi-GB strings, Something Is Wrong with yer process
asciilifeform: what is it exactly that HAS to be multigb, AND human-editable text, AND cannot be split into files in any way ?
phf: hand patching binary blobs before you write a tool for it, traditionally
asciilifeform: 13337cr4x lol
phf: !!:D
asciilifeform: i typically write a perlism for those, with a seek()
asciilifeform: dun think i've ever done one for a >coupleaMB bin tho
asciilifeform: ( btw i always found it interesting that the unix authors never saw it fit to include a binary equivalent for diff/patch . but iirc we had this thread. )
phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue; i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine) ☟︎☟︎
phf: it would eliminate the need for a very large number of data structures
ben_vulpes: and in Autotranslation Today: http://archive.is/9t3Zb
shinohai: lol
shinohai: !~translate es to en dios mio
jhvh1: shinohai: OMG
shinohai: xD
mod6: evenin'
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715948 << cons cell is prolly the simplest physical realization of this item ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-19 22:15 phf: it would be interesting to try and design architecture where you have an insert operation on a memory region (cons and lisp machines is kind of it, but that's done by sidestepping the issue; i'm talking a traditional von neumann machine)