BingoBoingo: Tale prolly on Trilema
phf: ""Polaris" system from MIT's Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Lab accelerates website load-time (34 percent faster!!1) by decreasing network trips." great new advacements from the famous CSAIL
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/41eWh/?raw=true
asciilifeform sent 1st crate of FUCKGOATS on its way.
mod6: congrats asciilifeform
mod6: & mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet creature also contributed !
BingoBoingo: Tell her ty
mod6: yeah srsly. ty
BingoBoingo needs to get a pet he can stand for more than a month at a time.
oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/heats/
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: phf hey, at least unlike the 15-20 years of "ai research", this ~actually does something~.
mircea_popescu: as much as we might like the (self-unaware) lords involved, it can't be seriously argued that mit actually did much in cs.
BingoBoingo: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/12/16/stony-brook-philosophy-phd-says-his-department-plans-review-amid-claims-hes-neo-nazi
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the solution traditionally involves starvation & leather belts.
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!!
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html has been updated!
phf: mircea_popescu: csail (mit ai lab then) published "ai memos" from 1959 to sometime in early 2000s where they described a lot of "firsts" in computing in general. scheme spec was published by sussman and steele, lisp 1.5 compiler (first "self-hosting"), lisp machine architecture, etc. most papers are not so much ai as computing in general.
asciilifeform: 1958-78 or so, mit was one of the 2 or 3 worthwhile things happening in computing per se.
asciilifeform: (and i'm not even certain whether to count bell labs)
phf: i think "ai research" is a mislabel, because the promise of ai was used to keep the funding going, and there is a lot of failed hacks on the subject, but the bulk of actual work was more about how to do computers
asciilifeform: aha, it was bait.
phf: i'm pretty sure that ai memos are enough to rebuild computing from scratch. has architectural descriptions, cpu design, fabrication, language designs, text editors ("emacs" before it was taken over by rms is described in one of the ai-memos, both as a standalone thing and as set of TECO marcos), various algorithms
asciilifeform: not only computing, but the ~actual~ computing, not the new jersey garbage.
phf: unix also had a lot more of an organic decentralized approach, beyond mans i don't think anybody actual read anything on the subject of unix (a few key books, like k&r or steven's on tcpip). pretty sure people would just grab the source and learn by exploration
asciilifeform: it was and remains a fungus.
phf: i think it's great if you only use twm/x11 to spawn a couple of xterms, so you can run your mathematica and write your Fortran simulation code. sort of a Dijkstra lisp machine, when exploratory interactivity is not the main goal. building this whole infrastructure on it was a folly
BingoBoingo: "One spark for Jorjani’s missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called “Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi.” The blog’s editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a “Hail Trump
BingoBoingo: ” moment, and the organization describes itself as committed to defending "the heritage, identity and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world."" << Brian Leiter is a notorious aspie
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 444081 | Current Difficulty: 3.10153855703E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 445535 | Next Difficulty In: 1454 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 22 hours, 59 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: Camoflage https://i.sli.mg/CDco9B.png
asciilifeform: ugh
BingoBoingo: http://www.vagabondjourney.com/bad-tripping-fat-crap-low-big-people-using-squatter-toilets-asia/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.od43.com/1941_Eichmann_Rothschild_RB.html << 'your' rothchild chick lived?!
Framedragger: congrats on the shipment asciilifeform :)
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-16 23:46 asciilifeform: btw, ben_vulpes , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'm sorry ?
mircea_popescu: ahahaha! so : according to mp's meticulously kept state archives : yes it's true one josef israel kugelmann from fritzlar-kassel (#29044 born 13may1877, prev residence munsterstrasse 60) was (and died) at dachau. his wife, ~betty~ sara, was nee plaut not rotschild.
mircea_popescu: seems you found an internet fake.
Framedragger: um, i was testing a script, and submitted gpg key to phuctor with luzly metainfo (http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7F1646FA33357FBC152F66E66E297B4F11EF0C3B04438FDF3B254993C3A6F814).. erm, since those specific rsa numbers are already in phuctor db, it'd be safe to remove this one asciilifeform. or keep it for the luls
Framedragger: (metainfo was supposed to be different but i experienced a derp.)
mircea_popescu: hand operations not worht it
Framedragger: this was while testing a script to be given to this austrian dude who wrote me, asking how to submit his server's ssh key (ssh server running on a nonstandard port)
mircea_popescu: convertors, not a bad idea. we'll have to fix everything to work with proper rsa format anyways
Framedragger: i think some sysadmins may want to be able to submit their ssh-rsa pubkeys themselves. and phuctor only accepts openpgp format, this needs to be converted (ssh pubkey -> gpg pubkey). so i'm adapting/stealing jurov's script and cleaning it up.
Framedragger: indeed..
Framedragger: (and yeah, this dude was like, "hey nice project, how do i submit my key for testing" - cool.)
Framedragger: (i clarified to him that it's not my project, dunno how he got the impression)
mircea_popescu: wellyour name's on it
Framedragger: but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
Framedragger: i.e., maybe it's not clear because asciilifeform is too shy
Framedragger: eh, whatevs. i redirect the masses to f.a.q. etc as needed.
Framedragger: (by masses i mean one dude)
mircea_popescu: i don't think you understand how software works. there's a very clear denied middle : it is either the product of a ~lone individual~, or else of a corporation. there is no multiple-people-work-without-usg-foundations-and-crap in most people's minds, because there isn't such a thing is most people's experience.
mircea_popescu: it's like the girl that naturally fucks on the first date, and demands to be fucked in the ass. yes they can exist. no they don't figure in anyone's expectations.
mircea_popescu: and yes if you run into one, you're probably one step removed from a guy who http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-09#1580129 and two steps removed from truckloads of $forbidenitems ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585548 << thing was quite certainly not built to be wound backwards ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 13:37 mircea_popescu: hand operations not worht it
asciilifeform: (removing anything whatsoever, is very very painful)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ?? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 13:42 Framedragger: but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585564 << folx throw in all kinds of nonsense when answering spam surveys, mega-surprise ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 14:15 mircea_popescu: https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy
asciilifeform: 'auto: bmw fuel: hamburger'
Framedragger: asciilifeform: apparently not clear to some.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585532 << it wouldn't be so astonishing if in the process of 'heightening the contradictions', academitards who go against party line end up with revoked degrees. this was sop in the last reich, why not this one. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 03:58 BingoBoingo: "One spark for Jorjani’s missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called “Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi.” The blog’s editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a “Hail Trump
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least media consumption data comes from their netflix boxes spying onthem
mircea_popescu: no surveys involved.
asciilifeform: netflix has hardware box?!
mircea_popescu suffers from a chronic inability to distinguish the microsoft vermin.
asciilifeform: but sure, i can picture how this part might work.
mircea_popescu: much like some people can't tell blacks apart, i can't really distinguish between https-and-unicode flavouring #1 and #2
mircea_popescu: so watever, tivo ? cable top box ? call it what you will, the official-media-consumption-toolkit.
asciilifeform: these are becoming fewer in number, even among chronic tv users
asciilifeform: but yes, i can see how it might work, given as most folx who have these get their ip connectivity from same place as the tv box
mircea_popescu: are you fucking kidding me ? bad media is becoming deeply universalized ; i made the mistake to try and watch "black mirror" because omsone said here, it's TERRIBLE from a cinematic point of view (the idiots can't act, can't block, can't speak, can't anyfucking thing ; the whole thing's a droned on ted talk, which is the point) and now i see it everwhere. last night tried to watch film with harvey keitel and michael cain, it
mircea_popescu: turned out to be unwatchable - the EXACT same imbecile substance.
mircea_popescu: "oh men are bad and racist and let's all hold hands and have luce irigaray-level issues"
mircea_popescu: put on stage by exactly the sort of lazy, stupid and therefore unfuckworthy nitwit that used to be consigned to the margins of etsy craftsmanship and bad mary sue fanfic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ~hardware box~ is becoming less common. most of the derps are watching on comp now.
mircea_popescu: fucking epileptic trees had a seizure and took over us media production department.,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, because https & assorted crapola of "progress" made it safe to move the box on their pc. and it is cheaper this way.
mircea_popescu: consequently attwood pens excited pieces about how "the golden age of x46 gaming is now".
mircea_popescu: ie, the same idiots who thought clinton can win actually think they got the platform sufficiently under control.
mircea_popescu is particularly annoyed because tried to play torchlight, total clone of diablo ii with ~half the ideas. i'm not sure anyone born after 1980 can even comprehend what a fucking insult to human reason that statement is.
mircea_popescu: like "star wars with less ideas".
mircea_popescu: "the golden age of all the games suck but we finally don't feel threatened by pgp anymore"
asciilifeform: speaking of trumplincton, the actual ceremony is apparently today.
asciilifeform: (not the coronation, but the anointment)
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: are you going ?
asciilifeform: the electoral college thing isn't public
asciilifeform: and i dun recall being invited
asciilifeform: the other one, might go to, if bored enough
mircea_popescu: o.O sikrit meetings of representatives ? sounds so very november parade-y!
asciilifeform: aha that's how they do it
mircea_popescu: do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ?
asciilifeform: habemus fuhrer!111
mircea_popescu: i think fuhrer is german. prolly fraulein in latin.
asciilifeform: lel
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/xTr3N << holy mother of fuck, is that... a trinitron ? in there
mircea_popescu: it might well be
mircea_popescu: shape looks kinda right and the static collection fits the tube patter
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: lol idiots drank antifreeze
mircea_popescu: how. how the fuck. how do you drink antifreeze it's like the most objectionable thing in nature.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you gotta be a serious 'alconaut', and accustomed to swallowing strange, to get there
mircea_popescu: must have like <3 tastebuds left.
mircea_popescu: the same species that can glossaly grade nafta dies from antifreeze ingestion. fucking diversity of mankind already.
asciilifeform: 'Did He who made the lamb make thee?' (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: oh i bet i know what it is, derps prolly use methyl glycol for antifreeze
mircea_popescu: why the fuck you'd do that is beyond anyone's comprehension, but w/e.
asciilifeform: in same rag, https://archive.is/pGDLS >> clitlerists go after the 'heil tritler' d00d's mother. his fans - fight back. 'oh noez localhaust'
shinohai: "How did we get hacked? I just don't understand, employee information was so secure!" http://www.nerc.com/AboutNERC/Resource%20Documents/roster.pdf
mod6: mornin'
mircea_popescu: hola!
shinohai: heya mod6
mod6: how's it goin today ?
mircea_popescu: no mal!
mod6: bien :]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 06:55 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584697 << http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0685 ; wonder if funkenstein would be game to regrind his nuke_checkpoints patch
asciilifeform: (specifically, cpuminer thread will sleep forever if there are no peers in the peer table, or if it - through braindamaged heuristic - decides that node is in 'initial block download')
asciilifeform: also imho ben_vulpes has a very spiffy project here and it deserves more brain cycles, he is actually testing the 'bitcoin on alpha centauri' scenario! i.e. replay of time, from genesis and up, in parallel universe, on trb.
mircea_popescu: ^
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0056 << and holy shit what is this.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure various people (myself included) did full trb blockchain download ; but mimi's very open and usefully so.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no, not full download! that's trivial and everyone did it
asciilifeform: he is doing mine-from-0
asciilifeform: in parallel world.
asciilifeform: y'know, to see if trb miner actually works. and if indeed the thing can be put on alpha centauri.
mircea_popescu: what did i say you're no-ing at ?
mircea_popescu: and that looks like ... defensive buffer allocation ? lol.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, you were referring to 'spin up trb node from 0 on real-life blockchain'. which more or less everyone involved has done, multiple times. his current thing appears to be the 'lan testnet' scenario i suggested a while back. where one pretends that the year is 2009.
asciilifeform: and mines from genesis, transacts between toy nodes, etc.
mircea_popescu: i said everyone did x, but y is good.
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, same sentiment.
asciilifeform: it is necessary. afaik trb's miner has not been tested since... 2011?
mircea_popescu: 2013ish
mod6: i've run it myself since then for sure.
mod6: im running it now!
mod6: works fine.
asciilifeform: neato.
mod6: # LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getgenerate
mod6: true
mod6: # uptime 15:59:09 up 336 days, 17:26, 6 users, load average: 1.21, 0.94, 0.52
asciilifeform: mod6: yes but does it produce a block ?
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=setgenerate
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> 1 processors
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> Starting 1 BitcoinMiner threads
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> BitcoinMiner started
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> keypool reserve 64
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=getgenerate
asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine
mod6: produce a block? quit trollin'
asciilifeform: nono, not on planet earth net !
asciilifeform: in mod6's parallel world.
mircea_popescu: no he is right, you can mine it if you stay on a special subnet that's isolated.
mod6: that i do not know. but indeed a good test. set diff to 1, then generate
mircea_popescu: kinda what prb "testnet" tries to be
mod6: totally worthwhile. but the exant code appears to still work on main-net anyway. but agreed, more testing/auditing/investigation required for sure.
asciilifeform: i killed the 'testnet' crud because wtf, why did it use variant rules from main-net.
asciilifeform: it made 0 sense.
mod6: yeah, agree.
asciilifeform: it is entirely possible to test 'bitcoin from 2009' simply by running from empty blockchain on lan.
mod6: i signed it.
asciilifeform: and if not -- then it is broken and needs fixing.
mod6: lemme dig something up.
asciilifeform: ok i'ma quote this atrocity in the l0gz, because so far as i can tell, it works only by accident, and is an epic wtf:
asciilifeform: 0054 // Align by increasing pointer, must have extra space at end of buffer
asciilifeform: 0055 template <size_t nBytes, typename T>
asciilifeform: 0056 T* alignup(T* p)
asciilifeform: 0057 {
asciilifeform: 0058 union
asciilifeform: 0059 {
asciilifeform: 0060 T* ptr;
asciilifeform: 0061 size_t n;
asciilifeform: 0062 } u;
asciilifeform: 0063 u.ptr = p;
asciilifeform: 0064 u.n = (u.n + (nBytes-1)) & ~(nBytes-1);
asciilifeform: 0065 return u.ptr;
asciilifeform: 0066 }
asciilifeform: can anyone tell me how the union here can possibly not result in rubbish?
mircea_popescu: hey, you signed it mofo :D
asciilifeform: afaik this only lives in genesis.
mod6: So i think you pointed at this recently: http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L12379
asciilifeform: mod6: aha, several times
mod6: and if it is required to be attached to at least one other node, then that may be a problem. We could still test on a lan, but you'd have to have two trb nodes on that lan to get past that line of code.
asciilifeform: mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585663 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 16:00 asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine
mod6: ah, thx.
mod6: (still trying to catch up, as you can see haha)
mod6: And yah, that union is scary.
mircea_popescu: its not altogether a bad idea to do this ; on the contrary, it is the sort of thinking process that denotes a healthy, functioning intellect.
mircea_popescu: (the mining ; not the union)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, that union is at best a screaming idiocy, and at worst a boobytrap, it is a way to straight-out arithmetically munge a pointer without provoking gcc warning
asciilifeform: interestingly, it is used only in the miner.
mod6: i look forward to ben_vulpes's investgation on this.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> netflix has hardware box?! << Usually "netflix box" is built into newer, shittier tvs
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that would do it
mod6: An update on progress towards the privkey tools feature added [ import private key with scanning from a specified beginHeight ]: I have proven out the edge case previously mentioned, twice, as expected. It can be resolved by doing a -rescan at any time. So far at least.
asciilifeform: mod6: which edge case ?
mod6: Lemme see if I can dig it up, stand by.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-10#1580953 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-10 19:49 mod6: This edge case being: If pub/priv keypair A, have been sent 1.0 bitcoins on say, tx 123456789, on block 200`000. Then sent 0.5 bitcoins from pub/priv keypair A to pubkey address B on block 250`000. If the uesr only scans back from 300`000, the balance in the wallet may not reflect the 0.5 output still there for that pubkey (from keypair A).
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ? << Election by Throckmorton's Sign!
mircea_popescu: heh
mod6: There are some cosmetic changes I may still make to the handling of the parameters of this function, and further testing, auditing, and validation are still required by third-parties.
mod6: But certainly a step in the right direction. Will update again as they are available. Salud!
asciilifeform: mod6: as i understand it, the cure is to scan backwards until the search tree terminates in coinbases for all branches.
asciilifeform: (which could indeed take you through the entire history of the universe, but chances are -- it won't)
mod6: we've discussed this.
mod6: and, we certainly could scan backwards.
mod6: however, this requires further code changes than are actually necessary.
asciilifeform: probably. i imagine the use case for this knob is simple, 'i want to know if i've been paid, and the counterparty has no time machine, so it'll happen some time after $lastblock'
mod6: i don't love this feature as it introduces complexity and an edge-case that mig-pilot needs to be aware of in the first place. but i'll consider it based on the idea that the complexity can be contained.
asciilifeform: so mod6's simple 'search after $blocknum' worx.
mod6: sure.
mod6: my vpatch essentially utilizes this function, which exists in the vpatch that was already sent to the ML:
mod6: pwalletMain->ScanForWalletTransactions(pindexStart, true);
mircea_popescu: tracing all payments to the coinbase will be useful if/when we decide to not accept "segwit" payments.
mircea_popescu: "if your coinbases do not trace to a block subsidy, you did not pay." sort of thing.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L25189 << scans forward from an index pointer
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unless i catastrophically misunderstand, for so long as we continue to count gavinistic payments as actual coin, and forgo 'trace to coinbase', there is a hole wide enough to drive a tank through, for conjuring coin from thin air
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah. now that's an interesting argument.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can deterministically verify that segwit doesn't create coins without accessing their proprietary binary blob.
asciilifeform: only by tallying up the circulating coin, neh ?
asciilifeform: which is agonizingly O(N^2)
mircea_popescu: by tallying up the segwit inputs and outputs. well, sure, but it can be verified is the point.
asciilifeform: has anybody publicly carried this out ?
mircea_popescu: it also doesn't work for any individual transaction, just for the whole windows abomination taken together.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's in "give them rope" phase of my give them rope to hang themselves with procedure.
asciilifeform: true, wouldn't want to knock out the stool from under the gavin until the noose is properly on.
mircea_popescu: more's the point, notwithstanding we got a reprieve from "get it done by summer", we still don't have actual alternative we're happy with, so... what's the rush.
asciilifeform: it would still be interesting to have alarm bell in trb , connected to 'i booted and it looks like >$maxcoin bitcoin are circulating'
mircea_popescu: true.
mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.)
asciilifeform: sum(unspent)
mircea_popescu: no i mean the max.
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0037
mod6: mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.) << iirc was a trilema post
mircea_popescu: in other unrelated lulz, buenos aires, one of the largest urban (well, "urban", whatever) agglomerations in the world ... closed down its subway system today. all of it. probem ???
asciilifeform: we had this early in the year here in mordor, after a fire, it was a kind of test-run for collapse, road jams as far as eye could see
asciilifeform: ( a substantial portion of who is in washington on a business day, leaves at the end of same day in the underground train )
mircea_popescu: this isn't after a fire. this is because... well... the subte employees are protesting.
mircea_popescu: they can do this here. somehow.
asciilifeform: lul
mircea_popescu: and not like there was an angry crowd at the entryways prepared to set them on fire, either.
mircea_popescu: somehow this bunch of idiots wants me to believe that a bovine constituency that doesn't give a shit about turned off subway somehow actually goes out and protests the government.
mircea_popescu: because i'm supposed to have been born as stupid as they are or wtf.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585630 << and specifically, i believe isInitialBlockDownload ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585541 << afaik your real problem is with http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790 >> and no, i do not know of any justification for this crud, imho it oughta go away and no one will ever miss it
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the peer thing also
asciilifeform: srsly, wtf, why
ben_vulpes: yeah we did this
ben_vulpes: i acquiesed to the inanity and made 2 nodes happen
ben_vulpes: still no mining, and my nose points at the initialblock check
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: quite likely it is stuck in the 'initialblock' idiocy, yes
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes bear in mind that there was a non-compatible fork cca v2.0
asciilifeform: gavin et al definitely did not want anyone to experiment with replaying the universe, no.
mircea_popescu: in typical style, poorly documented (satoshi made, too)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was the root of this fork?
mircea_popescu: satoshi up and fucked up the client one day.
ben_vulpes: k thx
ben_vulpes: produced blocks that it wouldn't validate itself? throw me a bone here
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack, when is the last time that anyone verified that all of the circulating coin (i.e. unspent outputs) can trace their descent to valid coinbases ?
mircea_popescu: not in theory.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nobody did this publicly EVER afaik ; the non-donedness of which is a variable i keep track of in mah own models.
asciilifeform: say we drill'em and -----
asciilifeform: tungsten.
mircea_popescu: hey, you're the tungsten expert, go ahead.
asciilifeform: betcha this'd be, what, 3 new lines on top of ben_vulpes's proggy.
mircea_popescu: indeed.
ben_vulpes: stop committing me to things
asciilifeform: hey you wrote it, ben_vulpes , so i'ma save the glory of the discovery for you!111
mircea_popescu: he's seen it in others and is fascinated by the process ; have you noticed he spent the past few weeks trying to commit people to things ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you suck as a pm alf, give it up.
asciilifeform: 'you were woodland animals all along!' (tm) (r) ('oglaf')
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm experimenting with not-attempting-every-possible-thing-with-own-hands
ben_vulpes: i just demoted the entirety of my todo list in favor of this mining thing, which is actually a subtask on a thing for mod6
mircea_popescu: yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em.
ben_vulpes: so sqlator q1 is feasible but whatever, don't count on it.
asciilifeform: lol, nobody has to do the homework if they dun want.
ben_vulpes: subj of homework
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579351 << i have archived everything on that www-cgi endpoint now ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 22:27 phf: ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely
asciilifeform: neato ben_vulpes , is this mirror somewhere /
asciilifeform: ?
ben_vulpes: if anyone wants copies, you know where to write. the recipe, however, is tres simple: wget -mpr www-cgi>
ben_vulpes: thanks, tmux
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if you'd like a copy i can get you a link later today
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: actually do you think stuffing entire www-dir behind webserver > gzipped ball?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, gavin&friends nuked the historical codebase (was on sourceforge, http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/bitcoin-0.3.19/ was first announced version) because "moving to github", gotta be proper usg tools and all. then github of course includes nothing but their current crap.
ben_vulpes off. pants; train
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever diff'em?
mircea_popescu: diff who ?
asciilifeform: original vs gavin
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you should see the early versions, with bitmaps and shit.
asciilifeform: bitmaps??
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha!
asciilifeform: this was in the 'complete words of satoshi' deadtree i bought some years ago
mircea_popescu: !~google addressbook16mask.bmp
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: zcash/ui.rc at master · zcash/zcash · GitHub: <https://github.com/zcash/zcash/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; sidecoin/ui.rc at master · AugurProject/sidecoin · GitHub: <https://github.com/AugurProject/sidecoin/blob/master/share/ui.rc>; quark/ui.rc at master · MaxGuevara/quark · GitHub: <https://github.com/MaxGuevara/quark/blob/master/share/ui.rc>
asciilifeform: ah the gui crapola
mircea_popescu: no, this is pre qt.
asciilifeform: wx
mircea_popescu: above appears eg in 0.1.5
mircea_popescu: right
asciilifeform: originally wx (which is the 'pepsicola' to qt, there were and are precisely 2 cross-os gui libs that work at all, wx and qt. wx is the c lib)
asciilifeform: wx is gnarly but at least doesn't require entire preprocessor!
asciilifeform: (qt, believe or not, does, a standard cpp compiler won't eat raw qt code)
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/kEEmw << apparently brownshirts!1111
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: 'But the experts could not think of another example of a president-elect continuing with any private security after Election Day, when Secret Service protection expands dramatically for the winner. In fact, most candidates drop any outside security the moment they’re granted Secret Service protection. Trump’s spending on private security, on the other hand, actually increased after he was granted Secret Service protection in Nove
asciilifeform: mber 2015.'
asciilifeform: ohnoez, EXPERTS COULD NOT THINK!1111
mircea_popescu: experts also don't have the winner's keen incentive to get rid of the praetorian guard, and permanently.
mircea_popescu: if /me worked for the us secret service, /me would be getting permanently lost in $farcountry just about last week.
asciilifeform: loooong knives!111
mircea_popescu: pretty dangerous thing to be in january 2017.
asciilifeform: elsewhere, in nearby monkeystans, https://archive.is/5Q1U8 >> 'Venezuela’s president said Sunday that the sudden decision to scrap the country’s most-used currency bill was an economic triumph over the country’s enemies even as the government sent troops and police to cities where riots and looting broke out over the measure. In a national radio and television broadcast, Nicolas Maduro said his abrupt action had flooded the cou
asciilifeform: ntry’s banks with currency deposited by Venezuelans racing to get rid of the paper bills while also devastating Colombian-border currency traders he blames for the bolivar’s precipitous plunge in value against “the criminal dollar.”'
asciilifeform: full-bore india
mircea_popescu: more like full bore korea.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585810 << asciilifeform didn't you do a whole run of eatblock? 'deterministic sync'? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 17:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i did, several times
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: worx great
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585568 << he means it's missing link to twitter and hackernews profiles :} ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 14:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
mircea_popescu: blocks ~prior to that date~ ; not the current blockchain.
ben_vulpes: because 'new' validation rules?
mircea_popescu: there were at least a dozen blocks including breaking txns. at the time.
asciilifeform: i even had it eat a blockchain that mircea_popescu gave me, from some box he had, iirc, continuously ran since the old days
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and the rules were changed to permit these busted transactions?
asciilifeform: incidentally all of asciilifeform's public trb nodes descend from that one.
mircea_popescu: no, on the contrary, to retroactively orphan what were valid blocks at the time
ben_vulpes: aah
ben_vulpes: so there's no 'at block XXX use iAmRetardedBlockValidator'?
mircea_popescu: well, "valid". what had been accepted.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes not afaik.
mircea_popescu: but the discussion wasn't that, it was "rewalk history" bla bla.
ben_vulpes: yeah i hadn't seen one. doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: history-as is has some various peculiarities, such as this.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all of the blocks in my chain validate per trb. (at one time i suspected that they would not -- but they do.)
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: mine too
ben_vulpes: embarassing as it is that i'm only now finding that trb doesn't solipsistically mine, i did determine that it validates the whole chain.
mircea_popescu: how is this embarassing
ben_vulpes: thing is broken in very obvious way, news in year 3
ben_vulpes: one man's obvious is another man's obscure rathole broken by shitgnomes
mircea_popescu: tru.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html << the deterministic sync thing
asciilifeform: for reference.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em. << See steps 8 and 9
asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
ben_vulpes: aha
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174408 also somewhat relevant ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-06-24 18:15 ascii_field: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?
mats: http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/19/europe/turkey-russian-ambassador-shot 'Russia's ambassador to Turkey assassinated in Ankara'
ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html
asciilifeform: mats: usg certainly would not like anything like diplomacy to carry on between ru and tr
mats: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/745297/US-Embassy-security-incident-attack-Ankara-Russian-ambassador-shooting
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have nfi why you and mod6 did not pick it for a release, can only answer for myself. yes, the hardcoded header checksums thing is ridiculous. but no, there is such a thing as a historic, immutable planet earth blockchain, and trb ought to include default-on sanity check of ~some~ kind for long-ago blocks.
asciilifeform: mats: lolnoshit, 'seekoority incident', the backstage folx who helped mr.pistolero do his thing, needed to cover their retreat
ben_vulpes: isn't that sanity check "show me a block with a higher diff and lineage back to the genesis block"?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: let's do gedankenexperiment.
mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
mats: i'd read it
asciilifeform: say martians show up with magical comp that can orphan 2009 blocks
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i disembark this train shortly, but yes lets
asciilifeform: you will let'em ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin
asciilifeform: iirc we had a thread with mircea_popescu , who remarked that it is not obviously wrong to 'let'em'
ben_vulpes: 'cold equations'
asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
ben_vulpes: what rules are these that they might not win?
ben_vulpes: also this 'win' is baked into how the blockchain works.
BingoBoingo: Lesson of latest initial sync in progress, things that were milestone last time this year are but one further year of blocks away from completion
asciilifeform: well not per current trb!
ben_vulpes: aha tru
asciilifeform: current trb, by default, nails down the early (300k?) blox
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585867 << fyi i successfully used this method to get the node somewhere into 200k block height on a airgapped libretto by transferring blocks over rsr232/ZMODEM. couldn't get it any further because started getting weird memory issues, i suspect 1.6gb is not enough.. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:10 asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
mircea_popescu: mats us ambassador in manilla sleeping with a buttplug.
ben_vulpes: i do not see this 'win' as bugful.
ben_vulpes: perhaps, though, 'grandfathers pistols' problem rears its head here.
ben_vulpes: but that the thing won't lan-mine is abhorrent imho
ben_vulpes: and the checkpoints are at the root of that by my read.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: sometimes 'grandfather's pistol' problem is complicated when it becomes evident that grandfather never actually shot anyone with his pistol
asciilifeform: and no one has any idea whether it even fires
ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you can use jurov's viewwe
asciilifeform: *viewer
asciilifeform: i do
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not that ; the guy was the architect of the dept of state's most recent and most embarassing failure.
ben_vulpes: not only is there state smattered everywhere but it's inscrutably altered by who even knows what when
asciilifeform: e.g., http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=mapBlockIndex
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i too, on occasion.
ben_vulpes: more frequently i just regenerate my tags file.
mircea_popescu: this absolutely requires smarter guy on the usg side shot. and there will be some shooting. thing is there's not that many competent dudes on us side.
ben_vulpes off again, chiral train operation
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585887 << it is very wrong, on the level of braindage wrong, to imagine that there can be such a thing as an ex post facto choice. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'choice' in the sense of that you're stuck choosing how to operate a node.
mircea_popescu: if your "choice" manifests itself only after they ask the question, it is improper to call it a choice.
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: it isn't a choice.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585903 << you can also use ctags that comes with emacs. you do "ctags -e -R ." in the root of codebase, and then M-. will take you to the definition. (M-. first time will ask you for the tags file, which will be in the root of codebase) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:22 ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
mircea_popescu: yes, once said martians appear you can make the forced mistake of a or the force mistake of b.
asciilifeform: well presently trb nodes ~aren't~ operating strictly on 'race to the swiftest', they have the ancient checkpoint thing.
mircea_popescu: this is true.
asciilifeform: where history happened a certain way and blocks <300k or what it was, are physically unorphanable
asciilifeform: just as how the genesis is hardcoded.
asciilifeform: btw the checkpoints were certainly not there against martians with infinitely fast miner, but against more elementary syncing-node-mitm.
asciilifeform: which remains as simple today as it ever was.
mircea_popescu: yep.
asciilifeform: so it is not obvious that 'race -- to the swiftest' is correct answer, anyone who can stuff a node into a solipsist cave, can replay time and orphan early blocks, if there is nothing like 'checkpoint'.
asciilifeform: the real question is whether any type of checkpointing is really a permanent pill against this.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/democrats-attempt-to-threatenbribe-electors-in-bid-to-stop-the-great-again/ << Qntra - Democrats Attempt To Threaten/Bribe Electors In Bid To Stop The Great Again
asciilifeform: a mitmer has, theoretically, ~infinite~ time to munge any particular block of his choice
asciilifeform: regardless of difficulty
mircea_popescu: race is to the swiftest ~and~ idiots must die.
asciilifeform: so he picks today's, say. and so what if he needs entire year to come up with an orphanator for it. a year from now -- he can feed it to 'in a cave' victims.
asciilifeform: and they WILL eat.
mircea_popescu: there is no provision made to rescue the node that can be stuffed in dark alley
mircea_popescu: just like woman who permits this deserves all the cum she gets.
asciilifeform: afaik it remains to be seen if the 'dark alley' can ever be ruled out.
mircea_popescu: that has ~nothing to do.\
asciilifeform: (or rather, whether there can be such a thing as a mechanical test for 'am i in an alley')
mircea_popescu: there's no requirement to show ~you~ have a safe heaven in order for something to be law
mircea_popescu: anyway ; checkpoint does exactly nothing to solve the problem. it is more in the same vein of feel good cure, like "mace" spray.
asciilifeform: quite possibly
mircea_popescu: except of course there isn't a lot of usfilm agit-footage about how checksum deterred bad white guy.
asciilifeform: incidentally, recall the blockchain-in-maskrom ?
mircea_popescu: well not yet anyway.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: at what point can one produce the rom ?
asciilifeform: if 'any' block is theoretically subject to revision.
mircea_popescu: once bitcoin's finished.
asciilifeform: and of what use it'd be then
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: it still isn't clear to me what'd be lost by considering, e.g., blocks that happened a proper, physical year ago, not-in-rom.
asciilifeform: or rather, in rom
mircea_popescu: anywya, getting back to mats ' thing, i find it truly amazingthat the ustards actually have the unmitigated audacity to try and rhodesia turkey.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing, really.
asciilifeform: well theoretically it does violate the 'thou shalt neither add, nor subtract' thing
mircea_popescu: how you store the blockchain is your decision
mircea_popescu: it being your node.
asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
mats: i wonder what excitement is left in the days remaining to current potus
mats: stir the shit-pot real good, mebbe disrupt .ru-.tr-.ir talks
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.
mircea_popescu: the stakes are pretty high, us itself is trying to pivot to an ir middle east. doesn't look like they have enough non-retards in the whole foreign service to pull it off, but hey.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585879 << mats, lemme get this straight, i'm supposed to believe that obummer DIDN'T sign off on every round in that pistol? and exactly why? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: from whence this 'presumption of innocence' for usg scum.
mircea_popescu: it's certainly an us assassination job.
mircea_popescu: i dun think anyone disputes that.
mats: is your joke-bit still flipped to 'off'
mircea_popescu: if you're even vaguely familiar with the victim it's pretty evident.
asciilifeform: mats: it's flipped to 'spoke with kako in past month' gear, still, takes a while to move it
asciilifeform: https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2016-12-13_Too_Cool_for_PGP.html << elsewhere in monkeystan
mats: you, me, might literally be Hitler if we take ourselves too seriously
asciilifeform: also wtf is 'OpenPGP'
asciilifeform: (other than the rfc)
asciilifeform: http://openpgp.org/software <<< aaaah apparently not only koch liquishit but 'here pick from this long list of shitwares, ALL GREAT!111'
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting ; putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr
mircea_popescu: iers, except maybe one in china sea. at which point obama may or may not launch the nukes.
mircea_popescu: so actual man made global warming by jan 15th is a respectable 1% or somesuch as it stands right now.
mircea_popescu: if anyone wants to evacuate to ba i'll get you a place to stay.
asciilifeform: eh mircea_popescu probably earned the place a spot in target grid
asciilifeform: for 1st time since hitler got his new flat
asciilifeform: or when.
mircea_popescu: not really how that game is played. argentina is an entirely agricultural shithole, nukes go after industry.
asciilifeform: in american grid
asciilifeform: naturally.
mircea_popescu: the russkis are prolly going to double-tap anyway owing to fears of "who knows, maybe the dysfunctional shielf works".
mats: nice knowing you guys
mircea_popescu: *thumbsup*
mircea_popescu: would tmsr again.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-assasinated/ << Qntra - Russian Ambassador To Turkey Assasinated
BingoBoingo: <a111> Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform << Qntra is available
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş
mircea_popescu: the turks released dataz.
BingoBoingo: ty
BingoBoingo: fxd
mircea_popescu: uh he's in custody.
BingoBoingo: fxd again
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/fP5Ce >> 'Trump’s insistence on channeling Putin’s propaganda may reflect a more permanent and creepier mindset that refuses to see Russia as a foe of the West. If the latter, how far will this go — blocking sanctions? Acceding to Russian aggression? The suspicion that Trump is Putin’s lapdog has cast a shadow over his secretary of state nominee, who is distinguished only by his chumminess with Putin.' << t
asciilifeform: he 'national security' caste is shitting bricks
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that members of various the various states' college of electors < since we're on it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha.
mircea_popescu: but the truth is, this is perfect time for trump to rid himself of the best and brightest of the "progressive" nigger set.
mircea_popescu: have the russians shoot them.
mircea_popescu recalls roman emperor who did this exact thing, had an uncharacteristically smooth rule thereafter.
BingoBoingo: fxd x3
asciilifeform: his obummeristic majesty sits on throne for another month.
mircea_popescu: this matters less than you'd think.
BingoBoingo: How many days did it take te world to got to shit following Franz Ferdinand?
mircea_popescu: the sad truth of the matter is that the us has spent the past few decades giving most initiative away. the fate of the world is not significantly decided in washington at the present time.
mircea_popescu: the ~entire thing is just how much the chinese want to and can convince the russians that significant and sufficiently humilatory concessions will be forced out of the us side so they forego actually taking scalps.
mircea_popescu: and as per http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ the absolutely imbecile generation STILL wants to pretend the conversation is about how racist it is to not allow faggots to "marry" ; rather than about how idiotic it is to pretend russia is an enemy and africa's an ally ; or that deindustrialization is a reasonable response to anything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the death of the 'fat consumer' system is not optional, it's an exponential/runaway growth hallucinatory nonsense. the lizard deindustrialization program is in re the ~controlled demolition~ of same.
asciilifeform: such that the bricks fall on designated untermenschen when possible.
mircea_popescu: this is the most generous interpretation.
asciilifeform: let's have the less generous one? for education
mircea_popescu: anyway, you're right in that the "free world" is significantly impeded in sane / reasonable reaction by the unwarranted, wholly baseless conceit that "all people matter", so they can't go on tv and tell every woman she has a week to find a master after which will be packed on catle ship and auctioned off in iran.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the less generous one is as set out in "apple could buy russia"
asciilifeform: 'apple' already tried to 'buy russia' in '41.
asciilifeform: it'll try again, again, why not, why should, from its pov, dirty orcs lord over 200-300 additional years of nonrenewables.
mircea_popescu: we're discussing what software runs on black box. you propose "hey, it's trying to cut gangrene in such a way as to do maximal damage to enemies". yes, this may be, as a generous interpretation. the more common interpretation however is to say there's exactly no cutting.
mircea_popescu: be that all it may, the ~correct~ reaction is strictly http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-133.333-133.381
mircea_popescu: deindustrialization dun enter into this ; de-"personalization" as personhood is currently misrepresented in the west however - does.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, 'An Army major general has been stripped of his stars and forced out of the military after a 30-year military career because of a long extramarital affair and "swinger" lifestyle. An Army spokesman says Maj. Gen. David Haight was demoted by three steps to the rank of lieutenant colonel, a steep and rare downgrade for a senior officer. The demotion will cost him more than $40,000 in annual retirement pay, based on pay scale
asciilifeform: s for a lieutenant colonel and a two-star general with 30 years in the Army. And it slams the door on what was once a promising career. Army Secretary Eric Fanning approved the board's recommendation and made the final decision. The spokesman was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly so spoke anonymously.'
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares who some guy fucks ffs.
asciilifeform: evidently d00d drank a bit too much, dropped some loose lips re heiling tritler or such.
asciilifeform: nobody cares until 'must have problems'
mircea_popescu: http://christianfighterpilot.com/2016/08/29/army-major-general-david-haight-fired-for-who-he-loves/ << of course trump can undo it :)
asciilifeform: in other monkeystans, 'Joanna Palani, a 23-year-old Danish woman, was facing a 6-month prison sentence after fighting alongside Kurdish peshmerga forces in Iraq and Syria, The Local reported. Palani had her passport confiscated last year after she returned to Denmark, and was hit with a one-year travel ban, for violating the nation's so-called "foreign fighter" rules. The regulations were aimed at stopping Danish citizens from joinin
asciilifeform: g terror groups, but could punish people who fight on the other side, according to analysts. ... “How can I pose a threat to Denmark and other countries by being a soldier in an official army that Denmark trains and supports directly in the fight against the Islamic State?” she wrote on Facebook after officials took her passport. The potential 6-month prison sentence stems from the travel ban violation. Palani admitted to traveli
asciilifeform: ng to Qatar in June and was detained last week...'
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585962 <<< in this case there's quite a few other ways in which the can fuck you ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:38 asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
asciilifeform: davout: besides the point
mircea_popescu: notrly.
asciilifeform: davout: see the mitm point further down in the thread. a ~simulated~ yottahash is just as good for the purpose.
mircea_popescu: one who comes with magical unicorn alternative can not thereby pretend to invalidate the rest of the magical unicorn implications.
asciilifeform: it isn't magical in any sense, you and i can do it right now -- e.g., mine an alternate block #300,000 and feed it to a cornered node.
mircea_popescu: the cornering is magical.
davout: asciilifeform: bitcoin makes no guarantees that you'll be fine if *all* your peers are compromised
mircea_popescu: yes, i'm aware various magicks are readily transmutable.
ben_vulpes: davout: this is the 'sybil' thread, yes?
asciilifeform: show me the guaranteed noncornered node.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you proceed from this very strange place. nobody owes you any guarantees.
mircea_popescu: nor can you extract guarantees. there's no guarantee stamped on gravitaqtion iether.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dunno about you, but my nodes are blackholed more often than not.
asciilifeform: and i have nfi what, if anything , is to be done about it.
davout: ben_vulpes: today's thread?
mircea_popescu: your life, in ALL its respects - !!!!IMPORTANT!!! NOT IN SOME RESPECTS YOU AGREE TO !!!!IMPORTANT!!! - is not certain.
asciilifeform: noshit
mircea_popescu: so then what are you talking about.
asciilifeform: about entirely feasible attack on real-life nodes..?
mircea_popescu: show me this feasibility.
mircea_popescu: see, now we have the burden on the right side.
ben_vulpes: davout: no, ancient one
davout: ben_vulpes: then no :)
ben_vulpes: aok
asciilifeform: it is in re the earlier gedankenexperiment. say trb operators stuck to the 'grandfather's pistol' principle entirely, and kept no record, other than current copy of blockchain, of the past. no checksums, etc.
mircea_popescu: magical type 3
asciilifeform: ?
mircea_popescu: listen, randomly transmuting the magical unicorn into magical octopi etc isn't going to work.
mircea_popescu: i am aware magic readily transmutes.
asciilifeform: where is the 'magical' ?
mircea_popescu: in the memorylessness.
asciilifeform: it's a thought experiment ! of course it contains a counterfactual. no one afaik is dumb enough to actually do this.
mircea_popescu: but it contains a counterfactual of the nature of magical unicorn.
asciilifeform: which was my only argument - that it would be stupid.
mircea_popescu: if you do this - you may not anymore deny the other implications of magical unicorn. such as you know, someone eating jam and shitting whole plums.
asciilifeform: somebody ( ben_vulpes ? ) ~did~ advance the argument that if martian lands and has enough hash, and wants to use it to orphan block # 2, he ought to be able to and we ought to live with the result, iirc.
mircea_popescu: that's broadly the idea - "mommy, what should i do if johnny wants to plug my virgin ass ?" "don't let him ?" "what if i can't ?" "you can" "what if magical alien from afar comes and he has magical powers and i really can't ?" "oh, no, HIM you spread for."
asciilifeform: as i understand, mircea_popescu objects , that this is an imaginary solution to the quadratic, that there is no physically plausible scenario that follows this path.
mircea_popescu: this whole "humans are inferior ; aliens come ; but humans still manage to somehow" is rank nonsense, not how things play out, nor how things should play out, nor how anyone wants them to play out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i complain that you construct a problem that necessarily may not have a solution.
ben_vulpes: aight so i can drop checkpoints.cpp then?
asciilifeform: well yes, in the literal martian scenario, 'what do i do if a shell hits my trench?' 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice.
mircea_popescu: this is still the correct thing.
ben_vulpes: ah
ben_vulpes: i recall now
mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: add '--solipsist' and be done with it..?
asciilifeform: or mircea_popescu's method.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: checkpoints.cpp really grates
asciilifeform: (except fuck the idiot blockheaders thing! hash entire fucking blocks)
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: it should be implemented as full block hashes.
asciilifeform: the 'headers' thing is abominable.
mircea_popescu: even that aside - there's no "propagation" excuse in this usecase.
asciilifeform: and it is quite regrettable imho that it cannot be entirely bulldozed in bitcoin as it is.
mircea_popescu: don't sweat it alf, eventually there will be a fork.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586084 <<< "show user checksums on demand so he can burn the system down if it doesn't match" sounds sufficient to me ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:38 mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
trinque: isn't this another http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-06#1578431 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 17:05 trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: sorta where i wanted to go with 'shiva', gimme a console
asciilifeform: where i can query ALL state
asciilifeform: of running node.
asciilifeform: every single fucking flag, variable, whatever.
asciilifeform: if i want to know where tx # .... is --- let's have it.
asciilifeform: none of this 'last six digits' nonsense.
mircea_popescu: also works.
asciilifeform: if i want to flush the mempool, ditto.
asciilifeform: flush motherfucking mempool.
davout: asciilifeform: have you tried bitcoin-ruby?
davout ducks
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: none of this ~everything-linked-to-everything~ tumour mass plox.
asciilifeform: davout: what's it do
asciilifeform: davout: chances are there is a crackpot pseudoimplementation of bitcoin in every language, cobol, malbolge, befunge, by this point. they are of 0 interest because not trb !
asciilifeform: why would i give half a fuck what some rando thinks bitcoin is !
asciilifeform: (or worse: wants me to think that it is!)
trinque: davout: troll not the poar alf
asciilifeform: nah but srsly as if i did not know about crackpot clients
asciilifeform: iirc there was even a ~decent one (as far as anyone could tell) in python, in 2012
asciilifeform: and another in some proprietary D-like language used at google
asciilifeform: and possibly else.
davout: these were 'decent' ?
asciilifeform: there was a curated list of these at one time
trinque ran the golang one for a long time
asciilifeform: davout: 'decent' in the sense of having no ~obvious~ catastrophic bomb
trinque: worked fine; I move deedbot to trb to lean on trb
trinque: *moved
davout: asciilifeform: aha, like 'a decent thai whore' ?
asciilifeform: exactly as.
asciilifeform: it is the sad peculiarity of life of the programmer that a proggy 'works perfectly' -- until not
davout: it's by no means peculiar
mircea_popescu: wife, same.
davout: an airplane flies until it doesn't
trinque: my arse, also.
asciilifeform: davout: i recently enjoyed a very old b00k on pilot mistakes
asciilifeform: was quite enlightening.
mircea_popescu: i recently enjoyed a very credible thai whore. it was quite unsettling ; i never felt so much like i'm fucking a little boy in my life.
davout: 'human factors' is a thing
asciilifeform: programming would perhaps be a similarly honourable profession as piloting, with similar calibre of people, if only it were possible to kill yourself just as easily with mistreated computer as with airplane.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ergonomics!11111
trinque: speaking of killing yourself, the db design for trb deserves *long* thought
mircea_popescu: what ergonomics ?!
trinque: there are endless abominations that can arise on that path otherwise
mircea_popescu: trinque aha.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you wouldn't sit in a kindergartener's chair, wouldja
mircea_popescu: kinda why the bitcoinfs discussion has been steaming on a low fire for like a year now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hm i hadn't considered this. you mean the tiny girls are for tiny guys ?
davout: asciilifeform: i'm interested in the title
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have nfi what the dimensional tolerance is , in practice.
asciilifeform: but the 'boy' comment suggests that it is finite.
mircea_popescu: and i have nfi how anyone fucks these 100lb, tits smaller than mine twists. anyway.
davout: trinque: are you saying there should be a single design?
asciilifeform: davout: 'Вам - взлет!' (Анатолий Маркович Маркуша.) it's a childrenz' b00k
mircea_popescu: davout it'd help if there were a good design, how's that.
asciilifeform: davout: about, yes, piloting. with, yes, how pilots die.
trinque: davout: ad hoc crapping together database features as needed gets you the last round of idiot fad databases
trinque: mongo et al
trinque: one implements a fast in memory key value store, the other transactions but no structural constraints, ...
davout: trinque: i was thinking more along the lines of "different use case classes might warrant a couple different pluggable storage designs"
mircea_popescu: holy fuck no.
asciilifeform: trinque: it is not clear that any feature set aside from 'get anything by anything-else in O(NlogN)' is necessary or justified.
trinque: because I don't always know what the fuck I want!
trinque: just predicates I want to apply
asciilifeform: and guess where THIS IS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED
asciilifeform: :
asciilifeform: your disk fs !
asciilifeform: any of'em. even ext3.
trinque: I could not disagree more
davout: if it's "the one design to rule them all" were there any objections to simply using a normalized relational design?
mircea_popescu: me repeats bitcoinfs in his corner.
trinque: davout: apparently so
asciilifeform: trinque: what can, e.g., reiserfs, not do, that you need done to your tx index ?
mircea_popescu: davout the objection, to be clear, is that too much maintenance. that's the true cost here.
davout: what's "too much" ?
asciilifeform: the mega-win from 'use files on disk, in directories' is that i can explore the index with sed, grep, etc.
asciilifeform: instead of relying on gigantic binary turd and dedicated toolset.
trinque: please to not argue against things I have not said.
asciilifeform: (does anyone understand why i put, e.g., 'v', together, the way i did? or the lamportron?)
davout: asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
trinque: the relational model is not impossible to implement
asciilifeform: trinque: i promise not to argue until you say exactly what needs doing that cannot be done with stock fs
trinque: I didn't say link sqlite
mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
mircea_popescu: you add 50 hours of b, so you made a very bad trade-off.
asciilifeform: davout: not dedicated. and arguably if you're using an os 1000 yrs from now that doesn't have exact equivalents of these tools, you have serious problems
trinque: asciilifeform: I cannot go calculate the current balance of a given address without walking the chain
mircea_popescu: in the case of most modern bright minds, b is "hidden" under the rug and so they don';t think correctly about their environment
trinque: or I go cache it somewhere and that is stupid
asciilifeform: trinque: this is a physical impossibility
asciilifeform: of course you can't do it!
trinque: that is a trivial SQL query over transactions
mircea_popescu: which is why no english-speaking, quora-and-stackexchange, wikipedia-and-tedtalk "entrepreneur" can create value.
asciilifeform: trinque: it's still O(N)
asciilifeform: think for a minute
asciilifeform: how could it not be
trinque: again, do not argue against what I have not said!
trinque: you will implement indexes yourself, and so on
mircea_popescu: trinque if you manage to get alf to not do that, let me know what you did.
trinque: and then vast mountain of already researched space put together poorly
asciilifeform: trinque: it remains O(N), and yes, you can reduce your N, but you traded away correctness for speed.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586179 << certainly not ; i can read sed. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 davout: asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
asciilifeform: a full, canonical 'how much is this addr worth' requires O(N) chain walk.
asciilifeform: always will.
trinque: not if you have a reliable index that can find every reference to that address
asciilifeform: trinque: if you write how to do this, i give you my word that i will read .
mircea_popescu: trinque you will have to store NlogN data ; and n is like tb
asciilifeform: and answer cannot be 'sql command'
asciilifeform: i meant - ~algorithmically~ how.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 10**12 * log(10**12)
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 10**12 * log(10**12) = 1.1999999999999998E13
mircea_popescu: lulzy.
mircea_popescu: !~calc 10**12 * ln(10**12)
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 10**12 * ln(10**12) = 2.7631021115928547E13
mircea_popescu: somewhere there, 12 to 25tb worth of indices for a 1tb worth of blockchain.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586183 <<< are you saying that relational storage is nice, but has the high indexing cost? or am i completely amiss? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
asciilifeform: btw, p=?=np esoterica aside, 'never say never' in re algorithmic complexities. it is possible to make a number-theoretic 'blockchain' where you check for unspentness by euclid's gcd, for instance. many things are theoretically possible. but this thread afaik is about traditional bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: davout completely amiss. if you try to rubify this, you will end up with the kubinetes situation. "nobody knows how this works".
trinque: I would not create indices for every transaction
trinque: I'd have it run along indexing mine
mircea_popescu: the reason we want ~one~ is that we don't want to find we can't maintain two.
trinque: -or- the wallet is already a catastrophically shitty implementation of this
mircea_popescu: trinque my comment is re a more general case, not just txn, because i am confident you'll end up stuck with a more general problem in practice.
trinque: reasonable
mircea_popescu: the wallet ~is~ that, yes. problem is humanity doesn't mesh well with computability. ppl want a wallet./
davout: aok, you were referring to the 'pluggable' part, not the 'relational' part
mircea_popescu: davout aye verily.
mircea_popescu: this is the very important point here - every feature in the toolchain makes programming easier but ~everything else~ (generally here referred to "fit in head" but easily expanded to writing correct tests, maintaining, even KNOWING WHAT BLEW UP when something blows up!) much much harder
mircea_popescu: and the differential is in fact so immense and not even linear, that restrained toolset is huge gain.
mircea_popescu: in spite of making first-pass coding utter pain.
asciilifeform: the algo where you 'wallet' by keeping privkey AND index-of-last-block-where-this-addr-was-input-or-output are kept around, works until , in 'typical human' fashion, [l]user asks for 'fried ice', and wants MOAR, e.g., 'oooh i found a privkey in my underpants drawer, how much is it worth' or 'i want to keep priv on 2+ boxes' or, or.
mircea_popescu: and that's just scratching the tipsurface.
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: simplest example that ~everyone is personally familiar with.
mircea_popescu: ayup.
davout: a valuable advantage of relational storage is that *the user decides* what to index
asciilifeform: davout: in point of fact you can decide on fs also
davout: "want to import arbitrary keys? cost 5tb of index"
asciilifeform: by choosing a different fs to plant the thing on
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that it's not really open to his decision. see something like "user decides what checksum" is eminently user-able.
mircea_popescu: but "what to index" is like "user decides when to breathe"
asciilifeform: having the db hardlinked in bitcoin is lunacy
mircea_popescu: noty.
asciilifeform: it does not belong in there.
asciilifeform: how to arrange bytes on hdd, is why we even tolerate the misery of having an os, to begin with.
asciilifeform: so that different proggies can use same disk turds.
asciilifeform: for entirely different, and unplanned, things.
davout: hence pluggable interface
mircea_popescu: this much is true. it's also not really the part in dispute.
asciilifeform: davout: pluggable ~without bitcoin having to know about it~ is the key.
davout: sure, no argument here!
trinque: this is an entirely reasonable approach and yields the same things; I would call it a db.
trinque: it's just a question of how much OS you want to eat, and all is a fine answer
mircea_popescu: and so we are back to the original bitcoinfs.
mircea_popescu: trinque not only that, but anything other than all is kinda indefensible in practice.
asciilifeform: the one caveat that i can think of is that it may very well turn out to be unusably slow (as in, >10min block verify), on anything but reiser. (if there even.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bitcoinfs ends up with bitcoin-hdd-firmware.
asciilifeform: if it must -- it will.
mircea_popescu: the expectation ot make an os and not have to write drivers is the sweet sort of innocence usually reserved for coed sluts.
asciilifeform: not same as hdd fw omfg
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
asciilifeform: btw if anyone can come up with a WORKING 'crab' (realtek) nic driver in pure long mode asm, we can have, e.g., scheme on iron, and usefully so, in a couplea weeks.
asciilifeform: i wasted... dun even care to say how long. on this chore.
asciilifeform: with 0 result.
mircea_popescu: didja ask the finn ?
davout: i'm still not convinced that the relational approach is not the correct one, as far as an arbitrary inspectable DB is required
mircea_popescu: how would you be convinced ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most folks run for the hills when i say 'yes in asm, and no you don't get to use any existing code'
trinque: davout: idea is that these querying tools could as well use reiserfs or another as the "disk data format"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but did you ask the fin.
asciilifeform: and i'm pretty sure it came up when the finn was here. he vanished.
trinque: as say pg has whatever it shits into /var/lib/postgresql/data
mircea_popescu: dude...
mircea_popescu: ask the fucking fin.
asciilifeform: how am i to ask him, lol, he disappeared.
mircea_popescu: he left an email or something iirc.
asciilifeform digs for d00d's mailbox.
mircea_popescu: but yes, trinque has it, the discussion really is about what a db would call "the disk data format".
davout: did we just add tmsr-db on the todo?
asciilifeform: btw i dug out, long ago, a crackpot implementation in one 'baremetal os' (actual title) of supposedly-it. it dun work on any actual iron i was able to buy.
mircea_popescu: was there since long ago.
asciilifeform: and i bought a dozen cards of various vintage.
davout: right
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that 'normal people' drivers rely on there being a working pci bus, interrupt controller, etc. stack in the os, rather than programmed-bare-io
asciilifeform: so they are of 0 interest to me.
asciilifeform: (e.g., the one in linux. or bsd. or mac.)
mircea_popescu: more or less.
mircea_popescu: hence my comment re fw above.
asciilifeform: i studied the one in coreboot
asciilifeform: it ALSO DOES
asciilifeform: yes, the pxe boot rom.
mircea_popescu: it would.
asciilifeform: has whole motherfucking os.
asciilifeform: megatonne of 'idiomatic c'
asciilifeform: rubbish.
mircea_popescu: think for a moment what immense pile of varying switches the other approach would be like.
asciilifeform: it'd be a few 100 lines of asm
asciilifeform: particular, yes, to the card.
mircea_popescu: to work on all the consumer
mircea_popescu: right. lol. not what coreboot tries to do.
asciilifeform: i actually got hold of msdos driver
asciilifeform: for netware.
asciilifeform: believe or not, for a card made in 2011.
asciilifeform: it was the closest thing to what i want.
asciilifeform: now must reverse it. will take a while, and only can even begin when hands again are free to do this
asciilifeform: (and when?!)
asciilifeform: it is in, yes, 16bit asm.
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: one problem with asciilifeform in particular is that his patience with x86 crapola has become very short
asciilifeform: a younger d00d like, e.g., trinque , might get more result.
trinque: this younger dood already has a pile of ppc
trinque: :p
asciilifeform: well it doesn't have to be trinque .
trinque: but yes, am learning amd64 asm currently.
asciilifeform: but somebody who isn't walking with years of radiation damage from reversing x86 for money.
mircea_popescu: we need moar younger... actually , moar younger women plox.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: trinque: if it isn't megaseekrit, where'dya get a hold of a ppc ?
asciilifeform: or is this a vintage box
trinque: loads on ebay
asciilifeform: aaah
trinque: I've been buying lots of mac mini g4
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform: for a while, local uni surplus here was selling g5 monsters (big iron things) by the pound
asciilifeform: boxes that cost 3-4k usd new, in mid 2000s, going for pennies
asciilifeform: (crapple dropped all support)
trinque: yeah, I've got one of those guys sitting here too
trinque: and an xserve on the way
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform: pick up some old sgi iron, if doing this, it has even better bang/buck ratio
asciilifeform: i saw an 'origin' sold once, for price of scrap, and it worked
trinque: kk
asciilifeform: of course this all comes with a very real risk of turning into theo de raadt and moving into a cave, muttering, wearing hair shirts, sleeping in coffin
asciilifeform: but perhaps -- worth it
mircea_popescu: teh republic will have to commit to in some manner providing lifeline for above.
mircea_popescu: because there's no functioning religion without a strong ascetic line.
asciilifeform: i will send potatoes! and old microchannel NICs!!111
trinque: lel
asciilifeform: (pretty sure i ~still~ have 1 or 2...)
mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
asciilifeform: i have 2 dec alphas that are available to my l1 for cost of postage.
trinque: huh, maybe I start an armory :)
asciilifeform: if anyone needs.
mircea_popescu: trinque i am saying - depending on exactly what one's life goals etc are ; running a warehouse full of old iron bought on the cheap is a very reasonable lifestyle choice.
asciilifeform: (both, iirc, circa '04 or so)
davout: computer sommelier position still not filled
mircea_popescu: certainly a LOT more saner than "prepper" idiots storing canned food etc.
mircea_popescu: THAT's what im gonnafucking want, canned peaches. ffs.
trinque will have a monthly buy of this and similar till doomsday
trinque: *til
asciilifeform: davout: there can be >1. in fact, if we're ever down to 1, it is trouble.
trinque: what am I going to do, buy fucking US stocks?
mircea_popescu: ikr.
trinque has at least two phrases branded on his mind by the republic
trinque: "You could've been better anywhere else."
trinque: and "cannot be had for any price"
mircea_popescu: heh. i can see it.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/dfGeO#selection-224.0-243.15 << lulziest fucking shit
mircea_popescu: also an ~incredible~ point in case of how ustardian brain damage actually works. the very idiots that advertise captcha breaking... use captcha!
asciilifeform: i think that is the longest list of spampaypals-and-demonstratively-not-bitcoin i've seen since 2009.
asciilifeform read it several times, thinking 'probably missed it...', and.
asciilifeform: dafuq is, e.g., 'giropay'
asciilifeform: or 'pay-easy'
asciilifeform: or the dozen hieroglyphic crapolades.
asciilifeform: what is a 'weemoney' ?
asciilifeform: pay with jars of piss ?
asciilifeform: (or was it a 'b')
asciilifeform: who has heard of 'bleue' ? can pronounce without gagging?
asciilifeform reads on, in sidebar, 'Dec 13: For your Bitcoin payments, remember that we need the Coinbase transaction ID in order to track your deposit. We encourage you to write down that ID to avoid delays in your Bitcoin payment processing. Thanks for your comprehension.'
asciilifeform: they take ~only~ coinbase?!
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-truck-idUSKBN148287 << moar bowling for cucks
mircea_popescu: lol
shinohai: When your security track record is so bad, you can't even secure your forums: http://archive.is/2nvH2
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/german-truck-attack-stikes-market-in-front-of-kaiser-wilhelm-memorial-church/ << Qntra - German Truck Attack Strikes Market In Front Of Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church
mircea_popescu: lol
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/adobe-releases-first-linux-flash-player-update-in-4-years/ << Qntra - Adobe Releases First Linux Flash Player Update In 4 Years
ben_vulpes: entirely unrelatedly to anything else, does trb's `getmemorypool' actually work?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i, for one, do not know the answer
ben_vulpes: i think that i just crashed my node asking for the memory pool.
ben_vulpes: either that or blackhole?
asciilifeform: post log?
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YmlTD/?raw=true
asciilifeform: ^ obscure box with ssh on nonstandard port
asciilifeform: persistent little bugger.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: will
danielpbarron is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 20:30 mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
pete_dushenski: hanbot: right you are, my dear. thank you for being the proverbial alert reader! 2016 year-in-review now updated to include resolution of courts circus competition.
pete_dushenski: shinohai: l0l!!
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/12/president-elect-trump-passes-270-votes-in-state-electoral-colleges-is-once-again-president-elect/ << Qntra - President Elect Trump Passes 270 Votes In State Electoral Colleges, Is Once Again President Elect
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 20:16 mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: doesn't force-load either ?
asciilifeform: (standard linux kernel won't load mods that aren't versioned for it. unless 'forced')
danielpbarron: from my very limited understanding, something was changed in the kernel that the driver was expecting to be there
danielpbarron: something about symbols
asciilifeform: something other than version?
asciilifeform: or hm, lemme guess, MTRR
asciilifeform: ( http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=2baa891e42d84159b693eadd44f6fe1486285bdc )
danielpbarron: that sounds familiar
danielpbarron: 4.1.35-gentoo is what i had to go back to
asciilifeform: in recent orlolz, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/12/brain-parasite-gonna-eatcha.html