phf: ""Polaris" system from MIT's Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Lab accelerates website load-time (34 percent faster!!1) by decreasing network trips." great new advacements from the famous CSAIL
mod6: congrats asciilifeform
BingoBoingo needs to get a pet he can stand for more than a month at a time.
mircea_popescu: phf hey, at least unlike the 15-20 years of "ai research", this ~actually does something~.
mircea_popescu: as much as we might like the (self-unaware) lords involved, it can't be seriously argued that mit actually did much in cs.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the solution traditionally involves starvation & leather belts.
phf: mircea_popescu: csail (mit ai lab then) published "ai memos" from 1959 to sometime in early 2000s where they described a lot of "firsts" in computing in general. scheme spec was published by sussman and steele, lisp 1.5 compiler (first "self-hosting"), lisp machine architecture, etc. most papers are not so much ai as computing in general.
phf: i think "ai research" is a mislabel, because the promise of ai was used to keep the funding going, and there is a lot of failed hacks on the subject, but the bulk of actual work was more about how to do computers
phf: i'm pretty sure that ai memos are enough to rebuild computing from scratch. has architectural descriptions, cpu design, fabrication, language designs, text editors ("emacs" before it was taken over by rms is described in one of the ai-memos, both as a standalone thing and as set of TECO marcos), various algorithms
phf: unix also had a lot more of an organic decentralized approach, beyond mans i don't think anybody actual read anything on the subject of unix (a few key books, like k&r or steven's on tcpip). pretty sure people would just grab the source and learn by exploration
phf: i think it's great if you only use twm/x11 to spawn a couple of xterms, so you can run your mathematica and write your Fortran simulation code. sort of a Dijkstra lisp machine, when exploratory interactivity is not the main goal. building this whole infrastructure on it was a folly
BingoBoingo: "One spark for Jorjani’s missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called “Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi.” The blog’s editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a “Hail Trump
☟︎ BingoBoingo: ” moment, and the organization describes itself as committed to defending "the heritage, identity and future of people of European descent in the United States, and around the world."" << Brian Leiter is a notorious aspie
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 444081 | Current Difficulty: 3.10153855703E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 445535 | Next Difficulty In: 1454 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 22 hours, 59 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: ahahaha! so : according to mp's meticulously kept state archives : yes it's true one josef israel kugelmann from fritzlar-kassel (#29044 born 13may1877, prev residence munsterstrasse 60) was (and died) at dachau. his wife, ~betty~ sara, was nee plaut not rotschild.
Framedragger: (metainfo was supposed to be different but i experienced a derp.)
Framedragger: this was while testing a script to be given to this austrian dude who wrote me, asking how to submit his server's ssh key (ssh server running on a nonstandard port)
mircea_popescu: convertors, not a bad idea. we'll have to fix everything to work with proper rsa format anyways
Framedragger: i think some sysadmins may want to be able to submit their ssh-rsa pubkeys themselves. and phuctor only accepts openpgp format, this needs to be converted (ssh pubkey -> gpg pubkey). so i'm adapting/stealing jurov's script and cleaning it up.
Framedragger: (and yeah, this dude was like, "hey nice project, how do i submit my key for testing" - cool.)
Framedragger: (i clarified to him that it's not my project, dunno how he got the impression)
Framedragger: but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
☟︎ Framedragger: i.e., maybe it's not clear because asciilifeform is too shy
Framedragger: eh, whatevs. i redirect the masses to f.a.q. etc as needed.
mircea_popescu: i don't think you understand how software works. there's a very clear denied middle : it is either the product of a ~lone individual~, or else of a corporation. there is no multiple-people-work-without-usg-foundations-and-crap in most people's minds, because there isn't such a thing is most people's experience.
mircea_popescu: it's like the girl that naturally fucks on the first date, and demands to be fucked in the ass. yes they can exist. no they don't figure in anyone's expectations.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-09 01:44 mircea_popescu: ~if i am~ a drug dealer and i burn down your house, you'll what ? file a police report ? go on the local news network with a teary eyed "no one could have predicted that if i get pissy with people who break the law for a living i might end up with a burned down house" ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 13:37 mircea_popescu: hand operations not worht it
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 13:42 Framedragger: but also asciilifeform's; and if you google phuctor it's.. clear? hm. this goes back to the discussion of kindergarten kids stamping their name everywhere, cf. kids who don't
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 14:15 mircea_popescu:
https://www.quantcast.com/stackoverflow.com << in other lulz, the merchandise&media consumption affinities of "independent", "scientific" and you know, "advanced-civilised-progressive" ustards are pretty lulzy
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 03:58 BingoBoingo: "One spark for Jorjani’s missive was a short post on Leiter Reports, a popular philosophy blog, called “Ph.D. in Philosophy From SUNY Stony Brook Is Also a Neo-Nazi.” The blog’s editor, Brian Leiter, Karl N. Llewellyn Professor of Jurisprudence at the University of Chicago, noted that Jorjani spoke at a recent meeting of the National Policy Institute led by white nationalist Richard Spencer. The meeting included a “Hail Trump
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least media consumption data comes from their netflix boxes spying onthem
mircea_popescu suffers from a chronic inability to distinguish the microsoft vermin.
mircea_popescu: so watever, tivo ? cable top box ? call it what you will, the official-media-consumption-toolkit.
mircea_popescu: are you fucking kidding me ? bad media is becoming deeply universalized ; i made the mistake to try and watch "black mirror" because omsone said here, it's TERRIBLE from a cinematic point of view (the idiots can't act, can't block, can't speak, can't anyfucking thing ; the whole thing's a droned on ted talk, which is the point) and now i see it everwhere. last night tried to watch film with harvey keitel and michael cain, it
mircea_popescu: turned out to be unwatchable - the EXACT same imbecile substance.
mircea_popescu: "oh men are bad and racist and let's all hold hands and have luce irigaray-level issues"
mircea_popescu: put on stage by exactly the sort of lazy, stupid and therefore unfuckworthy nitwit that used to be consigned to the margins of etsy craftsmanship and bad mary sue fanfic.
mircea_popescu: fucking epileptic trees had a seizure and took over us media production department.,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, because
https & assorted crapola of "progress" made it safe to move the box on their pc. and it is cheaper this way.
mircea_popescu: consequently attwood pens excited pieces about how "the golden age of x46 gaming is now".
mircea_popescu: ie, the same idiots who thought clinton can win actually think they got the platform sufficiently under control.
mircea_popescu is particularly annoyed because tried to play torchlight, total clone of diablo ii with ~half the ideas. i'm not sure anyone born after 1980 can even comprehend what a fucking insult to human reason that statement is.
mircea_popescu: "the golden age of all the games suck but we finally don't feel threatened by pgp anymore"
mircea_popescu: o.O sikrit meetings of representatives ? sounds so very november parade-y!
mircea_popescu: do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ?
mircea_popescu: shape looks kinda right and the static collection fits the tube patter
mircea_popescu: how. how the fuck. how do you drink antifreeze it's like the most objectionable thing in nature.
mircea_popescu: the same species that can glossaly grade nafta dies from antifreeze ingestion. fucking diversity of mankind already.
mircea_popescu: oh i bet i know what it is, derps prolly use methyl glycol for antifreeze
mircea_popescu: why the fuck you'd do that is beyond anyone's comprehension, but w/e.
mod6: how's it goin today ?
mircea_popescu: pretty sure various people (myself included) did full trb blockchain download ; but mimi's very open and usefully so.
mircea_popescu: and that looks like ... defensive buffer allocation ? lol.
mod6: i've run it myself since then for sure.
mod6: # LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getgenerate
mod6: # uptime 15:59:09 up 336 days, 17:26, 6 users, load average: 1.21, 0.94, 0.52
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=setgenerate
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> 1 processors
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> Starting 1 BitcoinMiner threads
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> BitcoinMiner started
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> keypool reserve 64
mod6: (15:57) <@mod6> ThreadRPCServer method=getgenerate
mod6: produce a block? quit trollin'
mircea_popescu: no he is right, you can mine it if you stay on a special subnet that's isolated.
mod6: that i do not know. but indeed a good test. set diff to 1, then generate
mod6: totally worthwhile. but the exant code appears to still work on main-net anyway. but agreed, more testing/auditing/investigation required for sure.
mod6: lemme dig something up.
mod6: and if it is required to be attached to at least one other node, then that may be a problem. We could still test on a lan, but you'd have to have two trb nodes on that lan to get past that line of code.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 16:00 asciilifeform: as i currently understand it, you need a 'binary star' system of two lan nodes for either to actually mine
mod6: (still trying to catch up, as you can see haha)
mod6: And yah, that union is scary.
mircea_popescu: its not altogether a bad idea to do this ; on the contrary, it is the sort of thinking process that denotes a healthy, functioning intellect.
mod6: i look forward to ben_vulpes's investgation on this.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> netflix has hardware box?! << Usually "netflix box" is built into newer, shittier tvs
mod6: An update on progress towards the privkey tools feature added [ import private key with scanning from a specified beginHeight ]: I have proven out the edge case previously mentioned, twice, as expected. It can be resolved by doing a -rescan at any time. So far at least.
mod6: Lemme see if I can dig it up, stand by.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-10 19:49 mod6: This edge case being: If pub/priv keypair A, have been sent 1.0 bitcoins on say, tx 123456789, on block 200`000. Then sent 0.5 bitcoins from pub/priv keypair A to pubkey address B on block 250`000. If the uesr only scans back from 300`000, the balance in the wallet may not reflect the 0.5 output still there for that pubkey (from keypair A).
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> do they pump white smoke off the chimney if his dick is on the right side ? << Election by Throckmorton's Sign!
mod6: There are some cosmetic changes I may still make to the handling of the parameters of this function, and further testing, auditing, and validation are still required by third-parties.
mod6: But certainly a step in the right direction. Will update again as they are available. Salud!
mod6: we've discussed this.
mod6: and, we certainly could scan backwards.
mod6: however, this requires further code changes than are actually necessary.
mod6: i don't love this feature as it introduces complexity and an edge-case that mig-pilot needs to be aware of in the first place. but i'll consider it based on the idea that the complexity can be contained.
mod6: my vpatch essentially utilizes this function, which exists in the vpatch that was already sent to the ML:
mod6: pwalletMain->ScanForWalletTransactions(pindexStart, true);
mircea_popescu: tracing all payments to the coinbase will be useful if/when we decide to not accept "segwit" payments.
mircea_popescu: "if your coinbases do not trace to a block subsidy, you did not pay." sort of thing.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah. now that's an interesting argument.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can deterministically verify that segwit doesn't create coins without accessing their proprietary binary blob.
mircea_popescu: by tallying up the segwit inputs and outputs. well, sure, but it can be verified is the point.
mircea_popescu: it also doesn't work for any individual transaction, just for the whole windows abomination taken together.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's in "give them rope" phase of my give them rope to hang themselves with procedure.
mircea_popescu: more's the point, notwithstanding we got a reprieve from "get it done by summer", we still don't have actual alternative we're happy with, so... what's the rush.
mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.)
mod6: mircea_popescu recalls publishing the correct value somewhere (it's not exactly 21mn "bitcoin", it's a satoshi count.) << iirc was a trilema post
mircea_popescu: in other unrelated lulz, buenos aires, one of the largest urban (well, "urban", whatever) agglomerations in the world ... closed down its subway system today. all of it. probem ???
mircea_popescu: this isn't after a fire. this is because... well... the subte employees are protesting.
mircea_popescu: and not like there was an angry crowd at the entryways prepared to set them on fire, either.
mircea_popescu: somehow this bunch of idiots wants me to believe that a bovine constituency that doesn't give a shit about turned off subway somehow actually goes out and protests the government.
mircea_popescu: because i'm supposed to have been born as stupid as they are or wtf.
ben_vulpes: i acquiesed to the inanity and made 2 nodes happen
ben_vulpes: still no mining, and my nose points at the initialblock check
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes bear in mind that there was a non-compatible fork cca v2.0
mircea_popescu: in typical style, poorly documented (satoshi made, too)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was the root of this fork?
ben_vulpes: produced blocks that it wouldn't validate itself? throw me a bone here
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nobody did this publicly EVER afaik ; the non-donedness of which is a variable i keep track of in mah own models.
mircea_popescu: he's seen it in others and is fascinated by the process ; have you noticed he spent the past few weeks trying to commit people to things ?
ben_vulpes: i just demoted the entirety of my todo list in favor of this mining thing, which is actually a subtask on a thing for mod6
mircea_popescu: yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em.
ben_vulpes: so sqlator q1 is feasible but whatever, don't count on it.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-07 22:27 phf: ben_vulpes: that archive has like dozen of access points, half of them regularly disappearing, a project for a lisp aficionado would be to archive it before it disappears completely
ben_vulpes: if anyone wants copies, you know where to write. the recipe, however, is tres simple: wget -mpr www-cgi>
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if you'd like a copy i can get you a link later today
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: actually do you think stuffing entire www-dir behind webserver > gzipped ball?
mircea_popescu: anyway, you should see the early versions, with bitmaps and shit.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: experts also don't have the winner's keen incentive to get rid of the praetorian guard, and permanently.
mircea_popescu: if /me worked for the us secret service, /me would be getting permanently lost in $farcountry just about last week.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 17:36 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes managed to fish it out. so : incorrect txn validation leading to improper coin generation was found on august 6th 2010 ; the fixing version is 0.3.10 (15 aug). because block validation rules change there, i'd expect all blocks prior to that date to not work in any sane eatatron.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 14:30 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
mircea_popescu: blocks ~prior to that date~ ; not the current blockchain.
mircea_popescu: there were at least a dozen blocks including breaking txns. at the time.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and the rules were changed to permit these busted transactions?
mircea_popescu: no, on the contrary, to retroactively orphan what were valid blocks at the time
ben_vulpes: so there's no 'at block XXX use iAmRetardedBlockValidator'?
mircea_popescu: but the discussion wasn't that, it was "rewalk history" bla bla.
ben_vulpes: yeah i hadn't seen one. doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: history-as is has some various peculiarities, such as this.
ben_vulpes: embarassing as it is that i'm only now finding that trb doesn't solipsistically mine, i did determine that it validates the whole chain.
ben_vulpes: thing is broken in very obvious way, news in year 3
ben_vulpes: one man's obvious is another man's obscure rathole broken by shitgnomes
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> yes but you're also experimenting with "interesting objects these people" and it's gonna get you in hot water with 'em. << See steps 8 and 9
ben_vulpes: isn't that sanity check "show me a block with a higher diff and lineage back to the genesis block"?
mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
☟︎ ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i disembark this train shortly, but yes lets
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin
☟︎ ben_vulpes: what rules are these that they might not win?
ben_vulpes: also this 'win' is baked into how the blockchain works.
BingoBoingo: Lesson of latest initial sync in progress, things that were milestone last time this year are but one further year of blocks away from completion
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585867 << fyi i successfully used this method to get the node somewhere into 200k block height on a airgapped libretto by transferring blocks over rsr232/ZMODEM. couldn't get it any further because started getting weird memory issues, i suspect 1.6gb is not enough..
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:10 asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
mircea_popescu: mats us ambassador in manilla sleeping with a buttplug.
ben_vulpes: perhaps, though, 'grandfathers pistols' problem rears its head here.
ben_vulpes: but that the thing won't lan-mine is abhorrent imho
ben_vulpes: and the checkpoints are at the root of that by my read.
ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not that ; the guy was the architect of the dept of state's most recent and most embarassing failure.
ben_vulpes: not only is there state smattered everywhere but it's inscrutably altered by who even knows what when
ben_vulpes: more frequently i just regenerate my tags file.
mircea_popescu: this absolutely requires smarter guy on the usg side shot. and there will be some shooting. thing is there's not that many competent dudes on us side.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
mircea_popescu: if your "choice" manifests itself only after they ask the question, it is improper to call it a choice.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585903 << you can also use ctags that comes with emacs. you do "ctags -e -R ." in the root of codebase, and then M-. will take you to the definition. (M-. first time will ask you for the tags file, which will be in the root of codebase)
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:22 ben_vulpes: also god bless cpp, i want to know where "mapBlockIndex" is defined have to grep the fucking codebase
mircea_popescu: yes, once said martians appear you can make the forced mistake of a or the force mistake of b.
mircea_popescu: there is no provision made to rescue the node that can be stuffed in dark alley
mircea_popescu: just like woman who permits this deserves all the cum she gets.
mircea_popescu: there's no requirement to show ~you~ have a safe heaven in order for something to be law
mircea_popescu: anyway ; checkpoint does exactly nothing to solve the problem. it is more in the same vein of feel good cure, like "mace" spray.
mircea_popescu: except of course there isn't a lot of usfilm agit-footage about how checksum deterred bad white guy.
mircea_popescu: anywya, getting back to mats ' thing, i find it truly amazingthat the ustards actually have the unmitigated audacity to try and rhodesia turkey.
mats: i wonder what excitement is left in the days remaining to current potus
mats: stir the shit-pot real good, mebbe disrupt .ru-.tr-.ir talks
mircea_popescu: the stakes are pretty high, us itself is trying to pivot to an ir middle east. doesn't look like they have enough non-retards in the whole foreign service to pull it off, but hey.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
mats: is your joke-bit still flipped to 'off'
mircea_popescu: if you're even vaguely familiar with the victim it's pretty evident.
mats: you, me, might literally be Hitler if we take ourselves too seriously
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting ; putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: iers, except maybe one in china sea. at which point obama may or may not launch the nukes.
mircea_popescu: so actual man made global warming by jan 15th is a respectable 1% or somesuch as it stands right now.
mircea_popescu: if anyone wants to evacuate to ba i'll get you a place to stay.
mircea_popescu: not really how that game is played. argentina is an entirely agricultural shithole, nukes go after industry.
mircea_popescu: the russkis are prolly going to double-tap anyway owing to fears of "who knows, maybe the dysfunctional shielf works".
mats: nice knowing you guys
BingoBoingo: <a111> Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform << Qntra is available
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that members of various the various states' college of electors < since we're on it
mircea_popescu: but the truth is, this is perfect time for trump to rid himself of the best and brightest of the "progressive" nigger set.
mircea_popescu recalls roman emperor who did this exact thing, had an uncharacteristically smooth rule thereafter.
BingoBoingo: How many days did it take te world to got to shit following Franz Ferdinand?
mircea_popescu: the sad truth of the matter is that the us has spent the past few decades giving most initiative away. the fate of the world is not significantly decided in washington at the present time.
mircea_popescu: the ~entire thing is just how much the chinese want to and can convince the russians that significant and sufficiently humilatory concessions will be forced out of the us side so they forego actually taking scalps.
mircea_popescu: and as per
http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ the absolutely imbecile generation STILL wants to pretend the conversation is about how racist it is to not allow faggots to "marry" ; rather than about how idiotic it is to pretend russia is an enemy and africa's an ally ; or that deindustrialization is a reasonable response to anything.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you're right in that the "free world" is significantly impeded in sane / reasonable reaction by the unwarranted, wholly baseless conceit that "all people matter", so they can't go on tv and tell every woman she has a week to find a master after which will be packed on catle ship and auctioned off in iran.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the less generous one is as set out in "apple could buy russia"
mircea_popescu: we're discussing what software runs on black box. you propose "hey, it's trying to cut gangrene in such a way as to do maximal damage to enemies". yes, this may be, as a generous interpretation. the more common interpretation however is to say there's exactly no cutting.
mircea_popescu: deindustrialization dun enter into this ; de-"personalization" as personhood is currently misrepresented in the west however - does.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:38 asciilifeform: yes but then martian shows up with yottahash or whatnot and you fork off.
mircea_popescu: one who comes with magical unicorn alternative can not thereby pretend to invalidate the rest of the magical unicorn implications.
davout: asciilifeform: bitcoin makes no guarantees that you'll be fine if *all* your peers are compromised
mircea_popescu: yes, i'm aware various magicks are readily transmutable.
ben_vulpes: davout: this is the 'sybil' thread, yes?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you proceed from this very strange place. nobody owes you any guarantees.
mircea_popescu: nor can you extract guarantees. there's no guarantee stamped on gravitaqtion iether.
davout: ben_vulpes: today's thread?
mircea_popescu: your life, in ALL its respects - !!!!IMPORTANT!!! NOT IN SOME RESPECTS YOU AGREE TO !!!!IMPORTANT!!! - is not certain.
davout: ben_vulpes: then no :)
mircea_popescu: listen, randomly transmuting the magical unicorn into magical octopi etc isn't going to work.
mircea_popescu: but it contains a counterfactual of the nature of magical unicorn.
mircea_popescu: if you do this - you may not anymore deny the other implications of magical unicorn. such as you know, someone eating jam and shitting whole plums.
mircea_popescu: that's broadly the idea - "mommy, what should i do if johnny wants to plug my virgin ass ?" "don't let him ?" "what if i can't ?" "you can" "what if magical alien from afar comes and he has magical powers and i really can't ?" "oh, no, HIM you spread for."
mircea_popescu: this whole "humans are inferior ; aliens come ; but humans still manage to somehow" is rank nonsense, not how things play out, nor how things should play out, nor how anyone wants them to play out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i complain that you construct a problem that necessarily may not have a solution.
ben_vulpes: aight so i can drop checkpoints.cpp then?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes iirc the discussion at the time ended with me pointing out it should be made arbitrary to user's choice.
mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: checkpoints.cpp really grates
mircea_popescu: even that aside - there's no "propagation" excuse in this usecase.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:38 mircea_popescu: let user pick checksum. this is the only right way to do this.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 17:05 trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
davout: asciilifeform: have you tried bitcoin-ruby?
trinque: davout: troll not the poar alf
trinque ran the golang one for a long time
trinque: worked fine; I move deedbot to trb to lean on trb
davout: asciilifeform: aha, like 'a decent thai whore' ?
davout: it's by no means peculiar
davout: an airplane flies until it doesn't
mircea_popescu: i recently enjoyed a very credible thai whore. it was quite unsettling ; i never felt so much like i'm fucking a little boy in my life.
davout: 'human factors' is a thing
trinque: speaking of killing yourself, the db design for trb deserves *long* thought
trinque: there are endless abominations that can arise on that path otherwise
mircea_popescu: kinda why the bitcoinfs discussion has been steaming on a low fire for like a year now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hm i hadn't considered this. you mean the tiny girls are for tiny guys ?
davout: asciilifeform: i'm interested in the title
mircea_popescu: and i have nfi how anyone fucks these 100lb, tits smaller than mine twists. anyway.
davout: trinque: are you saying there should be a single design?
mircea_popescu: davout it'd help if there were a good design, how's that.
trinque: davout: ad hoc crapping together database features as needed gets you the last round of idiot fad databases
trinque: one implements a fast in memory key value store, the other transactions but no structural constraints, ...
davout: trinque: i was thinking more along the lines of "different use case classes might warrant a couple different pluggable storage designs"
trinque: because I don't always know what the fuck I want!
trinque: just predicates I want to apply
davout: if it's "the one design to rule them all" were there any objections to simply using a normalized relational design?
mircea_popescu: davout the objection, to be clear, is that too much maintenance. that's the true cost here.
trinque: please to not argue against things I have not said.
davout: asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
☟︎ trinque: the relational model is not impossible to implement
mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
☟︎ mircea_popescu: you add 50 hours of b, so you made a very bad trade-off.
trinque: asciilifeform: I cannot go calculate the current balance of a given address without walking the chain
mircea_popescu: in the case of most modern bright minds, b is "hidden" under the rug and so they don';t think correctly about their environment
trinque: or I go cache it somewhere and that is stupid
trinque: that is a trivial SQL query over transactions
mircea_popescu: which is why no english-speaking, quora-and-stackexchange, wikipedia-and-tedtalk "entrepreneur" can create value.
trinque: again, do not argue against what I have not said!
trinque: you will implement indexes yourself, and so on
mircea_popescu: trinque if you manage to get alf to not do that, let me know what you did.
trinque: and then vast mountain of already researched space put together poorly
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 davout: asciilifeform: don't "sed, grep etc." qualify as "binary dedicated toolset" ?
trinque: not if you have a reliable index that can find every reference to that address
mircea_popescu: trinque you will have to store NlogN data ; and n is like tb
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 10**12 * log(10**12) = 1.1999999999999998E13
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 10**12 * ln(10**12) = 2.7631021115928547E13
mircea_popescu: somewhere there, 12 to 25tb worth of indices for a 1tb worth of blockchain.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
mircea_popescu: davout completely amiss. if you try to rubify this, you will end up with the kubinetes situation. "nobody knows how this works".
trinque: I would not create indices for every transaction
trinque: I'd have it run along indexing mine
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the reason we want ~one~ is that we don't want to find we can't maintain two.
trinque: -or- the wallet is already a catastrophically shitty implementation of this
mircea_popescu: trinque my comment is re a more general case, not just txn, because i am confident you'll end up stuck with a more general problem in practice.
mircea_popescu: the wallet ~is~ that, yes. problem is humanity doesn't mesh well with computability. ppl want a wallet./
davout: aok, you were referring to the 'pluggable' part, not the 'relational' part
mircea_popescu: this is the very important point here - every feature in the toolchain makes programming easier but ~everything else~ (generally here referred to "fit in head" but easily expanded to writing correct tests, maintaining, even KNOWING WHAT BLEW UP when something blows up!) much much harder
mircea_popescu: and the differential is in fact so immense and not even linear, that restrained toolset is huge gain.
davout: a valuable advantage of relational storage is that *the user decides* what to index
davout: "want to import arbitrary keys? cost 5tb of index"
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that it's not really open to his decision. see something like "user decides what checksum" is eminently user-able.
mircea_popescu: but "what to index" is like "user decides when to breathe"
davout: hence pluggable interface
mircea_popescu: this much is true. it's also not really the part in dispute.
davout: sure, no argument here!
trinque: this is an entirely reasonable approach and yields the same things; I would call it a db.
trinque: it's just a question of how much OS you want to eat, and all is a fine answer
mircea_popescu: trinque not only that, but anything other than all is kinda indefensible in practice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bitcoinfs ends up with bitcoin-hdd-firmware.
mircea_popescu: the expectation ot make an os and not have to write drivers is the sweet sort of innocence usually reserved for coed sluts.
mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
☟︎ davout: i'm still not convinced that the relational approach is not the correct one, as far as an arbitrary inspectable DB is required
trinque: davout: idea is that these querying tools could as well use reiserfs or another as the "disk data format"
trinque: as say pg has whatever it shits into /var/lib/postgresql/data
mircea_popescu: but yes, trinque has it, the discussion really is about what a db would call "the disk data format".
davout: did we just add tmsr-db on the todo?
mircea_popescu: think for a moment what immense pile of varying switches the other approach would be like.
trinque: this younger dood already has a pile of ppc
trinque: but yes, am learning amd64 asm currently.
mircea_popescu: we need moar younger... actually , moar younger women plox.
trinque: I've been buying lots of mac mini g4
trinque: yeah, I've got one of those guys sitting here too
mircea_popescu: teh republic will have to commit to in some manner providing lifeline for above.
mircea_popescu: because there's no functioning religion without a strong ascetic line.
mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
☟︎ trinque: huh, maybe I start an armory :)
mircea_popescu: trinque i am saying - depending on exactly what one's life goals etc are ; running a warehouse full of old iron bought on the cheap is a very reasonable lifestyle choice.
davout: computer sommelier position still not filled
mircea_popescu: certainly a LOT more saner than "prepper" idiots storing canned food etc.
mircea_popescu: THAT's what im gonnafucking want, canned peaches. ffs.
trinque will have a monthly buy of this and similar till doomsday
trinque: what am I going to do, buy fucking US stocks?
trinque has at least two phrases branded on his mind by the republic
trinque: "You could've been better anywhere else."
trinque: and "cannot be had for any price"
mircea_popescu: also an ~incredible~ point in case of how ustardian brain damage actually works. the very idiots that advertise captcha breaking... use captcha!
ben_vulpes: entirely unrelatedly to anything else, does trb's `getmemorypool' actually work?
ben_vulpes: i think that i just crashed my node asking for the memory pool.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 20:30 mircea_popescu is open to financing some degree of old hardware buying for share in ownership. re the above g5 sort of thing.
pete_dushenski: hanbot: right you are, my dear. thank you for being the proverbial alert reader! 2016 year-in-review now updated to include resolution of courts circus competition.
danielpbarron:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586263 << i'm trying to get eulora working on some new machines, they came with video cards, official nvidia driver doesn't work on latest linux kernel, (works fine on older kernel) but somehow this is nvidia's fault for not releasing a free fix every time someone comes up with another way to make a driver stop working
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 20:16 mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list.
danielpbarron: from my very limited understanding, something was changed in the kernel that the driver was expecting to be there