mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's really nothing wrong in asking anything.
mircea_popescu: also, i see absolutely no reason why log continuity would be disrupted ?!
ben_vulpes: when i asked, you said "none of you dickbags get off your asses and actually do anything, why would i ask of you one whit"
phf: of snap it's a quote-off! two boys enter, one man leave!
mircea_popescu: well now. alf's easily disposed of : bitbet did in fact go into such receivership ; i have little doubt ben_vulpes is doing things. so that's that.
mircea_popescu: but there's a space between what your quote shows and what "futility-cum-insubordination of a footsoldier asking anything" means.
mircea_popescu: (there's also a difference between asking admiral lord nelson what color are his flags ; or how his cannons work ; and asking him why he put the ships in a line ten apart. but this for another time.)
ben_vulpes: i asked "why did you not bring this before the forum first?", and received "what, /you/ idiots?", from which i derive that i am not to expect answers, and if to not expect answer why ask?
mircea_popescu: the fact of teh matter is that the forum's not there yet.
ben_vulpes: nevertheless, ask i did, and answer of some sort i received.
mircea_popescu: there is an outstanding issue ; i dunno how much you actually still credit the (separate network - not miner cartel) theory. i dunno how to approach that to make it plain to you it holds no water. tho it necessarily doesn't.
mircea_popescu: i would expect it to be dissolvable on purely formal grounds, because the whole thing is nothing other and nothing more than a nominal attempt. but dunno why this isn't obvious.;
mircea_popescu: as you know - the serbs, using very primitive technology, shot down an "invisible" fighter jet.
mircea_popescu: it ~could~ be argued that what they shot down was an ACTOR plane acting the part of being a fighter jet in a film about serbs.
mircea_popescu: that saying would be in no way distinguishable from this other theory.
mircea_popescu: just... you know... "how did actor plane end up in us controlled airspace ?" "well... they were in on it" "so it was a us plane" "uh no.. it was NOT REALLY." "mk ?"
mircea_popescu: (for the curious, the primitive technology was, dumbass plane shading microwave towers. same thing the germans used to fire their rocket plane munitions in ww2.)
mircea_popescu: identify the pairs in this example for my benefit cuz i dun see any relation ?
mircea_popescu: it seems to me any operative model for this dispute will have to be a) item that does something ; b) which would be restricted to members of a priviledged class ; c) which the item is purported not to be a member of ; d) while admitting the priviledged class was necessarily aware of the behaviour and tolerant of it.
mircea_popescu: how c and d can both stand is a very curious thing indeed.
mircea_popescu: to a measurable but in any case low tolerance. sure, 0.000001% hash won't matter.
mircea_popescu: you understgand this "? yes sybil problems will be incredible once that goes away
mircea_popescu: but for now, the miners yet have the upper hand, as long as that lasts.
mircea_popescu: yes, it's true that the naive view of bitcoin network rapidly collapses into your view, on the basis of your theory.
mircea_popescu: in reality however it odes not - because it collapses into a state of even lower energy even faster.
mircea_popescu: your idea with (indepoendent miners very threadbare + sybil) is much higher latent heat than the (miner cartel) situation.
mircea_popescu: it may get a run for its money 3-4-6 halvings down the road. maybe even one for each.
mircea_popescu: at the time it was politically expedient to not admit the possibility ; even as it loomed.
mircea_popescu: smart folk are difficult to persuade to give a damn about anything other than onanism.
mircea_popescu: if this won't be enough instruction to be as slutty as you can as young as you can get your cunt wet...
mircea_popescu: while the man wasn't the bright and fresh messiah we all would have no doubt preferred,
mircea_popescu: but it is altogether unclear the problem can be at all FIXED.
mircea_popescu: troubles you met how, by following the blowups of the fix he did for the problems he did see ?
mircea_popescu: a very poor understanding of actual finance and actual economics, as much as it is the direct cause of floundering of the formerly great american empire ; is also directly evident at work in bitcoin and among the geeks.
mircea_popescu: gavin has nfi idea ; but generally - this stuff is hard, and the people who grok it damned few if extant at all.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform last i checked with the learned monks, they didn't even have a FUCKING CIPHER
mircea_popescu: but that was so long ago perhaps the monastery has meanwhile been rebuilt upside down ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, alf : we share in teh ideals. lemme convict the man for wearing down the rails deliberately after i see the superconducting magnetorail in operation.
mircea_popescu: no, really, their efforts and value are not for a second in question. but the bridge to absolute "a well designed mathematical mechanism" has not yet been made
mircea_popescu: for that matter, the site's nto even picked as of yet.
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima be taking the sluts to a nude promenade, bbl.
trinque: if C-M-\ isn't a hair from C-M-Backspace...
mod6: <+asciilifeform> now i could be wrong, perhaps it ~won't~ become a magnet for the vermin that were previously shot on sight << already is!
mod6: asciilifeform: not talking about now anyhow.
mod6: anyway, re your ddt comment, seems to be an analog for "a hole where the night creeps in"
mike_c: hey :) good to see you
mike_c: not much up - I got my life settled a bit and came back and have been working my way through the shitstorm that hit around here.
mod6: werd. glad you're catchin a break a bit. last we talked you were mighty swamped with stuff.
mike_c: yeah, then it got worse
mod6: not much changed around here; still got coinz, still got that drama
mod6: alf and mp came up with a thing called 'V'
mod6: speaking of which, i literally did jack fuck all this past month on trb
mod6: lol, first SoBA to have literally no activity. i gotta grind hard in April i think.
mod6: bunch of us have been learning scheme and Ada
mod6: so that's been kinda cool.
mod6: alf just sits back and laughs
mod6: i'll catch up by the time im like 394 years old.
mod6: he'll still be in kindergarden.
mike_c: oh, wow. considering a rewrite?
mod6: if its possible at all.
mod6: btc has to work better than a 767
mod6: but not sure if we can make it happen with breaking ourselves off into our own universe.
mod6: could require a true hardfor
mike_c: yeah, hard to reproduce bug-for-bug in another language.
mod6: mp has some neato non-ada ideas surrounding sponges
mike_c: heh, sponges. I've got a lot of log reading to do..
mod6: yah, there's a lot of stuff. trilema will probably get you caught up as a readers-digest
mod6: no worries though, it'll be there.
mike_c: yes, baby is a bit bigger, and new job is settling in. life is manageable again (or will be once I've caught up on trilema + logs)
mircea_popescu: mod6> bunch of us have been learning scheme and Ada << hey, time spent retooling the shop is still work
mircea_popescu: and as an added benefit i'm no longer the young man i used to be, doing 100+ articles/month like 2010
mike_c: sounds like normal bitocin. allocate memory and don't free it.
mircea_popescu: tbh i like the new rested ny-steak&snark mike_c much better than the tired one!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so i gotta write my own malloc every time
mircea_popescu: you know "me", i'm a coder. i'd do anything rather than think.
mircea_popescu: explain this to me. how do i write ada-bitcoin with variable-sized blocks ?
mircea_popescu: this defeats the whole purpose of VARIABLE sized blocks
mircea_popescu: you're not about to tell me the block limit is actually part of ada,
mircea_popescu: i meant more in the sense of you'd have to be an idiot to need it, but neways.
mircea_popescu: it's of the nature of "it is possible, at least by napkin pullulation, that one day we have AI".
mircea_popescu: also ftr pullulation IS an english word. wtf is with these "spellcheckers" omfg
mircea_popescu: what is the fucking point to have a tool that spells worse than the human.
mircea_popescu: have you spent the past week re-reading logs in integrum and doing head-xreferencing ?
mircea_popescu: "how to get girl - first, get her sister. how to get sister - exercise etc"
mircea_popescu: did we ever say the finnish proverb is "even pigeon has a cunt" ?
mircea_popescu: no bird actually has a cunt, but what do the finns know.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, do you know how to fuck the bird in hand ?
mod6: haha, plz link if you find it.
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many fine jewish boys helped the ducks being fattened swallow their peas with the peanis.
mircea_popescu: the animal's overfed to cirhosis over a few weeks, in the traditional process
mod6: <+asciilifeform> as in, re-use the blocks sanely. << ok so we'd have to therefore keep a 'free list' - a list of objects/items that have been deleted and are "recycled" and may be used again or I suppose we could then call 'Ada.Unchecked_Deallocation' on an item in the free list to shink the list thereby reclaiming the memory.
mod6: i think i was just trying to follow that thread in my own sense of it.
mod6: i had to look it all up in the reference
phf: fwiw lisp no consing strategy is same, i.e preallocate things
phf: there's inherent divide between two strategies, anyone who claims bridging it is selling you something
mod6: ok, so ; new block is found. we serve the live block queue (size 64 blocks, oldest (height-wise) is in the front) and recycle the memory, appending it to the end of the free queue. we then serve the free-list queue, populate it with the data from the new block and append it to the live block list
mod6: two wheels, this would keep the overall footprint the same throughout.
mircea_popescu: ro expression, literally "life's hard for all of us". really intraducible in its derisive superlative.
davout: probably the 'office' part if i had to guess
davout: ah yeah, american coffee...
phf: asciilifeform is like a study into usg foot soldier culture, sometimes i feel like he relishes in the role
mircea_popescu: "office coffee" could also be fresh burmese brew by fresh burmese tits!
phf: my building has a coffee machine downstairs, that is loaded, daily by a mexican team, with fresh beans bought from a reasonable supplier. the coffee is passable, but perhaps sounds like mana from heaven compared to "kurig" ors
mircea_popescu: phf you have to have costa rica coffee before you may speak of coffee.
mircea_popescu: it's like... i don't even know. i have it imported here.
davout: in french we refer to american coffee as 'jus de chaussettes', aka 'sock juice'
mircea_popescu: in romanian, we call sodas "apa de la spalatul bomboanelor" ie, bonbon bathwater.
davout: that's actually pretty cute
mircea_popescu: can almost picture a bonbon in a tiny tub, rubbing his back with a tiny brush...
trinque: asciilifeform: gotta get yourself a french press for the desk
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can not buy any desk items lest they have lasers and no fans!
trinque: it's silent at least !!11!
phf: i briefly dated a jamaican girl in college whose grandfather had a coffee plantation, they sold most of it to roasters but roasted some for artisanal resale. i don't know if that was necessarily "best" coffee, but that's certainly not coffee i can forget
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know the feeling. i drink coffee like i smoke, a pot a month. but i am blessed with the company of oyung ladies that are crazy for the stuff,
mircea_popescu: and so like the bum living in the city and benefiting of the subway even if it couldn't be built on HIS tax receipts,
mircea_popescu: i still have my foreskin attached, also. i am untouched by worldly corruptions as a young babe!
mircea_popescu: i don't mean circumcision. i mean the split that usually happens in uncircumcised males once they get into their own and vigurously fuck a damsel.
mircea_popescu: at least for the lower class folk that dun wear condoms!
mircea_popescu: the penile anatomy is that the foreskin is connected to the glans by this skin fold.
ben_vulpes: have you...turned your computer off and then on again?
phf: run on a small nuclear reactor
phf: that is not the precedent you're looking for
phf: should be in quotes, a hypothetical jedi mind trick brought to you by usg
phf: i guess the attempt is to create controversy on account of everyone being weary of usg syndevs, "look! we have some non-compromised companies"
phf: i wonder if the whole charade has anything do with growth of iphone adoption in china
BingoBoingo: phf this social engineering strategy has a long history in USG kingdom. Invented by "St Louis Hegelians" who then moved to Harvard and infected USG. Favorite means of USG for getting desired outcome by letting crowd pick the narrative for how they got there.
BingoBoingo: phf: Thing was a reaction the the civil war and proposed as a solution to avoiding civil wars while still allowing everything to appear contentious
phf: BingoBoingo: i read your post
BingoBoingo: phf: It desperately needs a followup addressing the 20th century evolution of the thing and the obfustication that was heaped upon it.
mircea_popescu: o hey guise, we're ok to do all our terrorism on iphones now ?!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, they got another party to unterrorize the ipnoHe
mircea_popescu: asks every preppy 15yo derp with an iphone bought by helicopter mom and some equally derpy but "terrorist" friends & schoolmates.
phf: 9th european lisp symposium, three invited speakers "Coq, Julia and `complexity of lexical closures`" ffs
mircea_popescu: "I have recently looked at Julia, a new programming language developed at MIT that promises to be a dynamic programming language that is suitable for scientific computing with a high-performance implementation. "
phf: for so can do SCIENCE
phf: thing is 8 years ago dylan people were absolutely trolled at ILC, now apparently it's ok to have julia talk as invited talk. gise gise it's like lisp but with modern mainstream everything
mircea_popescu: "in julia, all mathematical operations are generic functions"
phf: i'm only hoping they mean they have proper numeric tower, rather then straight up "this plus can be anything"
mircea_popescu: so he means "the two basic arithmetic operands are polymorphic by type" rather than "all mathematical operations are generic functions".
phf: common lisp doesn't let you redefine +, it does have somewhat sane numeric tower
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what exactly is the meaning of "sum these three vectors" even ?
phf: asciilifeform: well, you don't have to go to that extreme, you can just import a symbol from own package and shadow cl:+ but that's not to be confused with builtin mechanism of "this function dispatches on many types"
mircea_popescu: well yes generally folk have all sorts of baked in assumptions about all sorts of things,
mircea_popescu: so the problem there is : me and her, crafters of different skills, are trying to figure out how the game computes the output quality of a crafting process.
mircea_popescu: it's directly evident the quality of recipe used ; and the quality of the bundle processed are factors.
mircea_popescu: the numeric properties we have found, however, are out of sight.
mircea_popescu: for instance : going from q50 to q200 blueprints doubles my output quality, from 132 to 264.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well... it's an industrial problem, here are your inputs, predict your outputs sorta thing.
phf: in earlier years i wrote a scripting language where processes will go mad after running too long, i.e. each operation had a correctness probability that will be logarithmically adjust based on thread's age. a boolean expression that returns true at 1, will return false 30% of time at .7, etc. i vaguely suspect something like that was used to write eulora server
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform compartimentalization is the best and most fun part of schizophrenia.
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder you don't play eulora, for these reasons.
mircea_popescu: i have been playing it continuously for like 5-6 months now. just leave the bot what to do.
DianaComan: ftr asciilifeform I routinely leave it on while I sleep
DianaComan: there is some very satisfying quality of "it works for me while I SLEEP" component to it too
DianaComan: no, not really because the bot by itself is basically a dumb robot
DianaComan: and ftr there is Birdman who managed to blow some 10mn using the bot in one night or so
mircea_popescu: DianaComan actually i suppose one could try and make ai for foxybot
mircea_popescu: prolly the auction/trade part the fastest approach for that.
DianaComan: ah certainly, I even had that as first idea, ha
mircea_popescu: it'd be pretty epic you know ? actually a very good ground for ai development, cuz so formalized and well scored.
DianaComan: back when I was more hopeful that I actually have the time for at least half the ideas I had
DianaComan: well, there is a lot to be said about intelligent mining/exploring too for sure
mircea_popescu: for instance asciilifeform : last night i loaded up the 500 abandoned eggs DianaComan sold me, plus some shiny rock shards i had from before, also abandoned birds' nests and disgusting goop, put 500 recipes for flinty toothpaste in my mind, said /bot craft 500 and went to bed. this morning i had like 300 of the things.
DianaComan: asciilifeform, the playing part is a. figuring out what is what and b. crafting your strategy and seeing how that compares (as results ie money) to those of the other players
DianaComan: the bot simply automates the repetitive tasks
mircea_popescu: of course jurov was working at a lisp-based text version of teh client.
mircea_popescu: <DianaComan> and seeing how that compares (as results ie money) to those of the other players << this'd work if we even had any sort of a valuating function!
DianaComan: well, so far it's very crude: are you in the positive or in the negative? then again, for comparing god help us given all the sikriz
DianaComan: aaaand made my wonderful, shiny, new samovar, ha
mircea_popescu: and how do i calculate if im in positive or negative ?
DianaComan: do you mean that bv is now meaningless?
mircea_popescu: well suppose you have 1mn and 1 have 1mn. then tomorrow, you have 100 dead molluscs q 150 and i have 100 bng recipes, q 150.
DianaComan: I don't get what you are on really; I said: to see if I am positive or negative, not even comparing to you, just very crude: today my eulora account is worth 1btc, tomorrow it is worth 1.5btc or 0.5btc
phf: i guess stephenson is on seveneves kick right now, which was pretty torturous reading, but probably goes really well with swj crowd
phf: "Is the security of quantum cryptography guaranteed by the laws of physics?" i have no expertise to make a comment on it though
gribble: Current Blocks: 404860 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 355 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 2 hours, 24 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
phf: asciilifeform: guy had that sword simulation fiasco, perhaps he decided that perky nih bureaucrat types (with rigged tomboy/ethnic/... upbringing) are better future builders. could be worse, could've gone joss whedon altogether
mircea_popescu: there's also no such thing as mathematical proof "by the law of physics".
mircea_popescu: if the dumbass thing weren't a pdf, i might have made a trilema blast piece. which perhaps explains why it is pdf.
mircea_popescu: is there some theorem of the unicity of entanglement that i missed ?
mircea_popescu: granted, i've not gone to school at the premier lightbulb lighting institution in the world.
mircea_popescu: yes yes. lemme summarize the question. IF you can show that two particles are entangled, HOW do you show that you have ALL the entangled particles in your control, for an entangla-tuple.
mircea_popescu: "entanglement is a key resource in the research field of quantum information"
mircea_popescu: it's like fucking politicians "thinking". really, does "entanglement" have the STATUS of so and so ?
mircea_popescu: "poor black mothers are a key resource in the public money spending field of social services"
mircea_popescu: and exactly continuing "shaka-maka is a major deity of great power"
phf: used to be you get a little tick mark in red from your teacher for that sort of writing
phf: asciilifeform: it's not a good kind of tick
mircea_popescu: Abstract. It is often claimed that the security of theoretical quantum key distribution (QKD) is guaranteed by the laws of physics. However, this claim is content-free if the underlying definition of theoretical QKD is not actually compatible with the laws of physics. This paper observes that (1) the laws of physics pose serious obstacles to the security of QKD and (2) these laws are ignored in a
mircea_popescu: actually, the piece is by bernstein, and the abstract entirely vindicates me.
phf: asciilifeform: somehow grant committee on the other hand eat dat shit up
phf: hence post, paper is essentially "what you smoking" but written in academiceese
mircea_popescu: phf yes, i am very happy with it. guy even includes a formal scheme of what the proof should look like, for the benefit of the titrated tykes.
mircea_popescu: that is EXACTLY what it should motherfucking look like. assume l, assume p, therefore s.
mircea_popescu: phf i'm very happy with the guy's statement, both in the fundamental rejection and in the discursive analysis of the claims aspects. more words may be added to beenfit peculiar idiots, but as it stands it contains the first 4k or so words one'd say on the topic.
mircea_popescu: he works for the republic even as he doesn't know it. and the eu printing press is paying for it. wonder of wonders.
mircea_popescu: lol are you publishing inept quyantum blabla pieces under a chinese pseudonym ?
mircea_popescu: at any rate : it is immensely more difficult to actually make a physical proof than the scheme detailed by bernstein immediately makes apparent.
mircea_popescu: to best illustrate this, perhaps : there is nothing in newtonian mechanics that ACTUALLY precludes quantum mechanics.
mircea_popescu: making negative statements on the basis of positively established physical laws is the hardest task available.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only such [class of] statement comes from the laws of thermodynamics (and their mirrors in other fields), which are some of the very few fortunate cases where an actual bound is offered (see, by the way, feynman's excellent introduction in all this, with the reversible and irreversible machines etc), and so negative statements can be had.
mircea_popescu: even leaving aside that people are still enthusiastically building perpetuum-organ-pumpmobile to this very day ; what practical use are they ?
mircea_popescu: by which i mean that a) all use is already in use - sure, an ant can't eat you, because of it - but you kinda already both know and use this and b) all uses not already in use are monstrously cataclysmic and temporally unapproachable. so the kelvin death, really ? oooo, neat, lemme make that into a doorlock!
mircea_popescu: the already very limited class of negative statements one can derive from physical laws is very fundamental, which in praxis severely limits your chances to do something clever.
mircea_popescu: historically though, those tend to collapse inconveniently.
mircea_popescu: they're all basically "you can cross the ocean - it will take six months"
mircea_popescu: and as far as the perversion of nature goes - quantum mechanics actually by its very own rules provides guarantees that it would not be observable by newtonian means. with the very isolated exception of "light through multiple mosquito nets", and fine problems in the perceived orbits of inner planets, there's really nothing to even measure about qm misbehaviour, for purely qm reasons!
PeterL: meh, a couple people poked their heads in, no more than any other time in #b-a, I don't see any corpse-munching yet
pete_dushenski: maybe tmsr just needed a stepping stone between itself and reddit
phf: danielpbarron expressed some concern that the following part of yesterdays #b-a log was an accusation made by me against mircea_popescu. i don't see it, but perhaps i'm missing something?
http://paste.lisp.org/display/311820/raw trinque: strikes me as more of an insult to alf's judgment really...
trinque: I don't see the crazy myself, but perhaps "we're all mad here!"
DianaComan: phf: i'm just saying there was plenty of opportunities to speak up against crazy in the past, and i saw plenty of crazy and i just thought everyone else took it in strides, as part of the game. apparently not! <- at a stretch crazy might be seen as an insult I suppose
DianaComan: anyway, it made me curious: what's the crazy that was plenty and seen but not really digested as it turned out?
mircea_popescu: what's "crazy" ? and plox don't tell me "that which diverges from the consensus of average derps", if possible.
phf: well, danielpbarron is a religious fundamentalist. things that he says have to be recoded from his frame to my frame. if there's particularly prolonged periods of inability to map frames on my part, i can go "well this is crazy" and dismiss it as not bring relevant to me or i can spend significantly more effort to recode
mircea_popescu: makes sense - my "crazyness" is the direct cause of about 99.x% of the times slavegirls get their hide recolored.
mircea_popescu: which i suppose is exactly the common understanding on the topic also!
mircea_popescu: (yes, when i say X is stupid what i mean is, exactly the matching above, except not regexp)
phf: i don't understand it and it matches my construct of other person's framing
mircea_popescu: and while at it, what's "a religious fundamentalist" ?
phf: if danielpbarron started discussing finer points of the bible, like, say, specific choices of food for lent, the entire thread is "crazy"
trinque: "made me unconfortable because $unspecified"
mircea_popescu: what if i started discussing finer points of random minutia, which is 2/3 of what i do anyway ?
phf: there's no judgement involved in calling something crazy!
phf: danielpbarron: we have it in orthodox christianity. a period when you have to eat specific, reduced diet
trinque: catholics say they gave up starbucks or something during
phf: i might find a discussion of lent dietary choices both interesting and not at all uncomfortable, but never the less they are "crazy" because the foundation is understood but not shared
phf: by that definition yes!
DianaComan: not at all, no, I'll troll some with it irl
phf: but so are most people, have specific set of priors that are non-sharable
phf: mircea_popescu: non transferable perhaps
mircea_popescu: i meant private quite in the public/private dichotomy contempated re the defintion of republic/forum.
mircea_popescu: roughly equivalent to "private method" sense in coding.
phf: right, when i say non-sharable, i don't mean, can't be verbalized
phf: but rather, are non-trivial to transfer
mircea_popescu: me either. public is anything that can be stated in such a way so that another can recognize his own in the statement ; private is what can not.
phf: well, danielpbarron believes in god, i (for sake of conversation) don't. that's a non-transferable prior, though of course both can be transferred through various involved mechanisms. indoctrination, dialogues, sudden insight
trinque: nah, didn't see any gods in there myself.
phf: mircea_popescu: i clarified it a bit with "non-trivial to transfer"
mircea_popescu: i took a piss on a woman splayed in the backalleys of cairo. you did not. this is now not-transferrable ?!
mircea_popescu: da fuck, you're not as slow as to not understand pissing, woman, backstreet or cairo./
phf: that's a prior that can be easier transferred, but only to an extent. i've not had that specific experience, perhaps there's some insight there that i'm missing beyond the obvious
phf: but in this case priors are pissing, woman and backstreet of cairo
mircea_popescu: "<mircea_popescu> at any rate : it is immensely more difficult to actually make a physical proof than the scheme detailed by bernstein immediately makes apparent."
mircea_popescu: and another example recently in the logs too, actually one each day.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform often asks pet, 'what does your female coprocessor say to ..X..' << not a bad line, this.
phf: mircea_popescu: i didn't understand that last question
mircea_popescu: even mathematics is not obvious in ALL its implications.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, illustrations abound. from "the ratio of circumference to diameter" plouffe doesn't actually follow.
phf: well, perhaps then transferability has some range values attached to it, "how much effort do i need to go through in order to grok"
mircea_popescu: phf i hope you're not about to put magic numbers in the fucking code!
phf: mircea_popescu: laziness coefficient L
mircea_popescu: "accessible through purely deductive means = obvious ; requiring some inductive reasoning = unobvious"
mircea_popescu: this definition was obtained through negotiation in class ; teacher had speech mania of saying "obvious", we protested, eventually the poor guy couldn't be needled into the ground with it so this solution was agreed upon and upheld by all parties.
phf: well, with that framing my definition of crazy is reduced to "what's not in groupthink"
phf: because it comes out to something like, if the outcome of inductive reasoning differs from my (??) existing conclusions, than the outcome is crazy
mircea_popescu: phf quite exactly. which is why i don't use the term nor think much of reasonings employing it as a rule.
mircea_popescu: but in any case - "that's one crazy babe" is definitely complimentary.
mircea_popescu: it is INDUCTIVELY accessible, if you have the time to induce all the needed factors. which we knew.
mircea_popescu: 1 : "p and q are in this n" ; 2 : "if q is this" then therefore 3. "p is n/this"
mircea_popescu: that's a deduction. you keep changing 2, that's your inductive job.
mircea_popescu: you're thinking mathematical induction, perhaps, which has nothing to see with the logical concept of induction.
mircea_popescu: an ancient, and rather netwonian explanation of the difference is that deduction is all from god ; and induction from sensata.
phf: i assume you're talking not about a mechanism, but rather thinking process, in which case mp's private key is "known".
mircea_popescu: that proggy is still an exericse in inductive reasoning.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.16, vol: 5917.61726372 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.015, vol: 6908.18434 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 415.83, vol: 23507.15126121 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 2.39 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.329677, vol: 40388.02040000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 416.0, vol: 1230.45436811 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 418.5909, vol: 27.43503207 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)