mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'll give you another mindfuck, by explaining the baez reference mentioned en passant.
asciilifeform: hm?
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, i am readying the bernsteinatronic phuctorer for blastoff.
mircea_popescu: so this schmuck is an "entrepreneur", whatever, typical socialist state constructed leech, like they have in ro ru us etc. a peter thiel (speaking of which, anyone actually recall the x.com thing ? which is how he became famous in the first place ?)
mircea_popescu: now, he's also an argentine. he was the main man of the ex-president, govt changed, he would have to be thicker than the law permits to not realise they're coming to steal his shit next.
mircea_popescu: he has had almost half a year, during which he failed to drive the 200 "automoviles de lujo" ie, upmarket consumer crap across the border into chile.
mircea_popescu: HE COULD HAVE DONE THE DEED HIMSELF. did not.
mircea_popescu: "hid them" through the process of throwing a tarp over the shit.
mircea_popescu: then "el fiscal marijuan" (i kid you not) discovered that there are "a lot more properties than previously known". ie, looked under the tarp.
asciilifeform: who the fuck 'saves' in ... cars
mircea_popescu: argentines.
mircea_popescu: this is not even a joke. they believe cars are "an investment"
mircea_popescu: they also believe "de lujo" means 60k crap from the us, fucking ford fiestas and whatnit
asciilifeform: and not museum cars...?
asciilifeform: but generic?
mircea_popescu: generic.
asciilifeform: l0l!!
mircea_popescu: about 1/3 of the country's trade defficit is rich idiots "investing"
mircea_popescu: and with a country that invests like this, famine should surprise no-one.
mircea_popescu: they readily agree with me when i say "argentina is horribly managed". they have not the fucking inklest of an idea wtf they mean,
mircea_popescu: seriously, that woman put a million dollars into cars.
mircea_popescu: and when i say she looks like a used up old whore people go "o how could you say this about la presidenta"
asciilifeform: sounds like an egypt
mircea_popescu: she's no fucking presidenta, she's an old whore from west texas. looks, ~and thinks~ like she did the trucker routes all her life
mircea_popescu: supreme accomplishment is a retirement full of cars. "luxury" cars.
asciilifeform: i dun see the famine tho, it'll be a usg/cn recreditatron
mircea_popescu: right, BECAUSE THEYRE WHITE
asciilifeform: serbs were white
mircea_popescu: no, serbs were slavic.
asciilifeform: point
mircea_popescu: you may think that's white. anglos don't. meanwhile spanish folks, fucked by the arabs into a shade barely distinct from maghreb's, white as the queen's own milk.
asciilifeform: tho slavs only blackened because there was no lizard investment in'em
mircea_popescu: it's all a mental issue.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's no way to recreditatron this bubble. they're about 5 bn short. nobody's sp[ending 50bn to buy 40mn inept turdheads.
mircea_popescu: there'll be some famine.
asciilifeform: some. but not enough that i can walk in and buy one.
asciilifeform: they will be sold, as slavs were sold, in pallets
mircea_popescu: the problem there is still entirely mental. their reaction to famine is to further oppress young females, so you won't be able to buy one not because all she does all day is sit in a concrete jail and watch youtube vids
mircea_popescu: but because she doesn't believe there's anything else for her.
mircea_popescu: sucks old woman cock and counts herself happy.
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: anyone seen "the piano teacher" btw ?
mircea_popescu: "civilised" female imbecile, ends up so fucking dry she has to go to jackoff booth in porn store and sniff discarded cumrags.
mircea_popescu: very much argentina. "fambly!!11"
mircea_popescu: (the movie is very illustrative of old cunt poison, actually. girly buys herself a better looking dress, old woman (who she lives with!) tears it, then withstands the coming assault (which is what women do ftr), and then gets the victim to cry and then they paradoxically bond further (also what women do) and, AND, for the grand finale, the coup de grace, comments that "forgiveness comes easy BECAUSE THEY ARE HOTBLOODED.")
mircea_popescu: NOT you see, because i got you just where i want you, you stupid cow.
mircea_popescu: but because, in the naive girly's imagination, there's no difference between that FAILED act of liberation and the genuine article. she after all never succeeded.
asciilifeform: nuttery.
mircea_popescu: so she's more than happy to THINK she's a terrorist, all the more as she isn't even close.
mircea_popescu: and by this fundamental act of nominalistic equivalency, the insanity preserves itself.
mircea_popescu: a mechanism described by clinicians since close to two centuries ago, but who the hell cares amirite.
asciilifeform: the 'no difference between that FAILED act of liberation and the genuine article. she after all never succeeded' is... guess what: perl
mircea_popescu: i recall you saying.
adlai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-16#1453024 << "paper says" does not imply "person eats"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-16 03:41 BingoBoingo: Oh, adlai is on Abilify
BingoBoingo likes the alliteration, at least eat one.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell felipelalli you have good taste what can i say
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: they should make disabilify.
adlai: it's called neurolepsia
adlai is on 5mg olanzapine, in case anybody is curious... 0/10 do not recommend, taken only to placate concerned folk
mircea_popescu looks at the local pharma experts to explain what that one does.
BingoBoingo: It's like seroqel, induces beetus
adlai: tl;dl: atypical (aka 'modern', as in "we don't yet have the faintest clue ~why~ this one does") antipsychotic (aka 'disabilify'), perscribed for telling people too much truth, of the paranoid flavor
adlai: sometimes meat-people prefer to hear calming babble. this makes me "gentle meek and mild" (tm)
BingoBoingo: Hey, thorazine was the first 'atypical'
BingoBoingo: Seriously shoulda done risperidone so MP could have milked you
deedbot: [Qntra] Bitcoin Difficulty Drops A Smidge - http://qntra.net/2016/04/bitcoin-difficulty-drops-a-smidge/
adlai has discovered that staying up all night sufficiently counteracts the boringness. vox resumica ca 30th hour, so s'all good, man!
adlai: dat editorial improvement :D
adlai had the gall to ask for pharmaceutical cannabidiol... "maybe next year. right now you need zyprexa!!!1!1!"
mod6: Ok, made some changes here.. updated for 80 cols, added a thing to print with HTML, made the code a bit prettier, it's still have some work to do. But if anyone wants to check it out: http://dpaste.com/22Z34X5.txt http://dpaste.com/0TA7AD2.txt
mod6: shinohai: if you wanna test something ^
adlai waits for the State of April address
trinque: BingoBoingo │ It's like seroqel, induces beetus << seroquel is nasty shit; a quack gave me that for a misdiagnosed vitamin d deficiency about a decade ago
trinque: felt like most of my brain was off
BingoBoingo: trinque: That's how hamplanets feel all the time
mod6: adlai: ya, will be Saturday for sure.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 449.09, vol: 7263.52795861 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 443.96, vol: 9217.833 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 448.84, vol: 15774.15244501 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 445.0, vol: 22.8893402 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 447.393375, vol: 34459.94740000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 450.886, vol: 1379.74341163 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 456.061363, vol: 37.96430783 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 447.519375638
mircea_popescu: i guess i'm like the only english speaker that never indulged in the chem weird ?
adlai: you don't know the half of it, just the other day my ptsdogenic fund paid for my university catharsis
mircea_popescu: heh.
adlai: !up scalpl
gribble: Error: "up" is not a valid command.
adlai: $up scalpl
deedbot: adlai may not $up scalpl
adlai: looks like it's a level-two loop-whole!
adlai: scalpl, having enjoyed mircea_popescu's options emporium during the dying throes of its public trade, will henceforth enjoy the dying throes of vitalik_buterin's nonsense polonium. more news once it actually loses money.
punkman: poloniex?
adlai: yep.
adlai: it's already well along the well trod path - the SCIA has already reported withdrawal difficulties
adlai: although they assured me that my coupla bitcents were safe there, seeing as they're all "investing" double-digit btc in swaps
adlai: these idiots who never heard of functional APIs prefix every side-effect-free call with "return". nuts! https://poloniex.com/support/api/
adlai: sadly my cost basis is already pessimal due to abysmal timing of buying an ethercent to play with before vitalik pooped
mircea_popescu: $up scalpl
deedbot: scalpl voiced for 30 minutes.
scalpl: thank you mircea! i'm alive.
mircea_popescu: lol. enjoe.
scalpl: i'll enjoy this more if people actually start shorting, or longing, or whatevering, this nonexistent fifth element
scalpl: mircea_popescu: how much noise may i make in the channel while voiced?
adlai: "gotta dilute something"!
asciilifeform: "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98)" ('Tokyo, JP') << holyfuq
mircea_popescu: ?
asciilifeform: from phuctor visitor logz
mircea_popescu: yea but... so ?
asciilifeform: so long time no see ie4.
asciilifeform: on win98.
asciilifeform: (or joker pretending to be same)
mircea_popescu: oh oh.
mircea_popescu: not possibru, "mozilla" didn't exist then
asciilifeform: iirc it supported w98
asciilifeform: at some point.
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, libpq refuses to link statically.
mircea_popescu: more nss joys ?
asciilifeform: for no currently detectable reason, even
asciilifeform: just doesn't seem to exist in static variant
mircea_popescu: ;;google libpq
gribble: PostgreSQL: Documentation: 9.1: libpq - C Library: <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/libpq.html>; PostgreSQL: Documentation: 9.3: libpq - C Library: <http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/libpq.html>; GitHub - brianc/node-libpq: Simple, low level native bindings to ...: <https://github.com/brianc/node-libpq>
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: jesus fuck, this fucking cult already.
mircea_popescu: they do EVERYTHING the same way.
mircea_popescu: how is this even possible irl ?!
asciilifeform: 'konsensoos'
mircea_popescu: dude how the fuck.
mircea_popescu: ok, i understand the part where in order to participate in the bizarro cult of whatever the fuck you gotta abandon any possibility of independent thought, even in principle, and preferablty before puberty. fine.
mircea_popescu: HOW THE FUCK do they get them all aligned ?!
asciilifeform: with money ?
mircea_popescu: billions of seemingly normal humans, entirely hollow husks filled with piss, all shambling in the EXACT same direction of the same mecca.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is in that kaaba stone already!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform money doesn't work like this.
asciilifeform: not mircea_popescu-style money
asciilifeform: rent-and-rice money
mircea_popescu: look : i fucked money, she begged me to stay so she'll cook me breakfast.
mircea_popescu: i know what money does and this ain't it.
asciilifeform: because not same animal!
mircea_popescu: there's only one money.
asciilifeform: turns out not
mircea_popescu: it turns out alright, but yes.
asciilifeform: just like lion is not the same animal to kid staring in the zoo vs kid in africa being chewed
mircea_popescu: but it IS same animal.
asciilifeform: in principle.
mircea_popescu: not a matter of "to". i fucked her. this means i rearranged its essential oils with my penis.
mircea_popescu: like, to guy who fucked lion, lion is same animal. kids at zoo or zamibia irrespective.
asciilifeform: to hunter - same, aha
asciilifeform: to the eaten - not.
mircea_popescu: this is not possibru
asciilifeform: it is the answer to mircea_popescu's riddle of 'why they all walk in same direction' tho.
mircea_popescu: incomprehensibru
mircea_popescu: i shall now retire to meditate upon this most unexpected development.
asciilifeform brb, committing unspeakable atrocities for money
shinohai: https://github.com/timbowhite/botbouncer <<< a javascript extortion bot LOL
jurov: that's actually not so bad idea
jurov: like, my IP got banned by incapsula (some cloudflare ilk) for no discernible reason and all sites that use it just blackhole me. even "pay here" screen would be better than this.
shinohai: Hopefully something a bit more robust however.
jurov: no ennumeration of badness can ever be robust
mircea_popescu: so you mean you want web to work like email does.
mircea_popescu: i'll spend a thousand to ddos incapsula off the internet before i spend a dollar for such bullshit.
jurov: what? email behaves the same way. once you're on blacklist, servers mostly won't bother to inform you
jurov: but email blacklists you can check yourself. no such recourse with incapsula
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-29#1459281 << killed 'gmail' yet ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-29 14:05 mircea_popescu: i'll spend a thousand to ddos incapsula off the internet before i spend a dollar for such bullshit.
asciilifeform: where is the funeral ?
asciilifeform: and recall, they are in the process of the exact same 'embrace & extinguish' for bitcoin, e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-21#1454505☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-21 12:43 asciilifeform: 'Based on the information I have available to me, it appears that the MIT ChainAnchor Project is in part an attempt to get Bitcoin users to register their real world identities and associate their transactions with those identities. Initially this would be on an opt-in basis, however it appears that ChainAnchor has a longer-term plan to bribe and coerce miners into only mining transactions from registered users, eventually prohibitin
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i said "i'll do x before y", has exactly nothing to do with what you're talking about mr. cheapshot
mircea_popescu: jurov wtf ? a) i've been getting offers to "Whitelist" my mail server for the low low price of whatever for a decade now. b) you just said you checked yourself, what do you mean.
asciilifeform: offers from whom? 419 sp4mz0rz ? afaik no organization credibly offers such a thing
mircea_popescu: buncha fucktarded scammers running the concern troll angle, "oh, subscribe to our service to protect yourself from spam"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform plenty do, including yahoo.
mircea_popescu: ;;google whitelist email server
gribble: The Spamhaus Whitelist: <https://www.spamhaus.org/whitelist/>; Whitelisting website email so it is not rejected as spam - Stack ...: <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2629614/whitelisting-website-email-so-it-is-not-rejected-as-spam>; Whitelisting Email Servers and IPs | GoDaddy Email Marketing ...: <https://www.godaddy.com/help/whitelisting-email-servers-and-ips-15910>
mircea_popescu: spamhaus also, apparently. for anyone actually believing the "we are here to halp" angle.
mircea_popescu: which reminds me - wikipedia back to "not advertising", right ?
asciilifeform astonished and even more disgusted than previously
jurov: yes a) is irrelevant b) pls reread. you can check why your *email* server onj your IP was blacklisted. you can't easily check what incapsula thinks about the same IP
mircea_popescu: how did you find out ?
asciilifeform: http://stackoverflow.com/a/4817290 << gold
asciilifeform: 'Google does not permit whitelisting!
mircea_popescu: seems to me b works exactly the same way for both services ; and a is irrelevant because you opted to go into blockhead mode as far as that goes.
asciilifeform: '"unlike many other providers that automatically let through all mail from certain senders, making it possible for their messages to bypass spam filters, Gmail puts all senders through the same rigorous checks"'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at some point i actually had proof yahoo sold the content of inbox to spammers.
jurov: easy. for example https://wiki.kde.org/ hags here, but not throuh proxy. and it resolves to incapsula
jurov: *hangs
adlai: isn't this basically the google business model?
asciilifeform: ^^
mircea_popescu: more or less yes.
asciilifeform: was the only google business model !
adlai: this = selling insider info to spammers
asciilifeform: if yer 'insider info' is plaintext in a mailbox...
adlai: er sorry, i said the dirty word... back to the lulzmines for me
mircea_popescu: anyway. the emai lthing is run 100% like a scam, with some periodicity some derpass "provider" or other randomly blacklists me, starts sending offers, waits 5-6 months or so for complaints to pile in, then un-blacklists me.
mircea_popescu: bout every 18-20 months since at least 2005.
mircea_popescu: "business", as america understands the term.
asciilifeform: complaints?!
mircea_popescu: well someone somewhere isn't getting his mail.
asciilifeform: normally this someone doesn't ~know~
mircea_popescu: back when i was younger i'd actually crusade to get various "customers" to terminate the arrangement. worked about as well as anything involving teh consumertard works.
asciilifeform: (and if you only talk to known folks who have strong relations with you, it is unclear to me why to use email)
adlai: wait, isn't the goal of email to "inbox less"? i thought not getting mail was the whole point?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sooner or later they figure out, some at least.
adlai: clearly the hashcash targets are too low, somebody get bitcoin-godpapa on the phone!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: back when i was doing the robot thing, i (far too late) learned that we lost at least one strong lead solely on account of 'spam' filters.
mircea_popescu: true olympian sez : "strong".
punkman: maybe that is why all the ustards are always on "a call" or scheduling one?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'strong' in the very bare bones sense in that it was a convo with someone who actually ~had~ the machine
asciilifeform: (rarity)
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://stackoverflow.com/a/17330725 << moar lelz
shinohai: Dafuq
mircea_popescu: "modern" eh ?
mircea_popescu: ;;ud modern
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Modern | Modern, in this respect, suggests a person, commonly a female, and more commonly of Sino-Asian lineage, who accepts, or at least doesn't readily condemn, ...
mircea_popescu: i must have missed the memo redefining "modern" as shitpiss.
mircea_popescu: fucking amodernicans.
deedbot: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Pete’s guide to investing in cars. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/04/29/petes-guide-to-investing-in-cars/
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu guess how long grinding 1678436 moduli took
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-29#1459124 << apparently no-one recalls the x.com thing ? back in the early days of the internet, an unknown derp made an "internet bank" which was promptly owned and lost some money.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-29 01:00 mircea_popescu: so this schmuck is an "entrepreneur", whatever, typical socialist state constructed leech, like they have in ro ru us etc. a peter thiel (speaking of which, anyone actually recall the x.com thing ? which is how he became famous in the first place ?)
mircea_popescu: the ensuing publicity made it worth ~100x what it was worth before, and made peter thiel a vague internet celebrity.
mircea_popescu: which is how the whole thing started.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me guess, 90 minutes.
mircea_popescu: o boy teh suspense is killing me.
asciilifeform: doing another run with all 16 cpu
asciilifeform: 1679650 mods.
asciilifeform: brb
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/y7T
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2016/04/28/for-some-embarrassment-is-rare-for-some-its-sous-vide/ << i lollered the healthly lol of schadenfreunde, for while i loathe the inept orcs i live among, it consoles me to read orcish adventures in the northern lands. you got some grammar issues in teh letter tho.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu 815.614s (1679650 mods ---> 205 phuctored) but not posted to db yet, this was test.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wtf why so fast!
asciilifeform: because bernsteinatronic.
mircea_popescu: you gotta write the man a letter.
asciilifeform: didntcha invite him here once
asciilifeform brb m33333t1ng
mircea_popescu: i dun recall. if i said i did, but anyway. deeds of this nature deserve to be properly congratulated.
mircea_popescu: in other news nobody cares about, dude walks into a store on bucharest's poshiest street yesterday, pulls out a 10 inch blade and stabs a sales girl, heart and all. love story.
mircea_popescu: oh, and also http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3565120/Kim-Jong-pleasure-squad-teenage-virgins-tyrant-forces-troupe-schoolgirls-life-servitude-North-Korea-s-elite.html
shinohai: ^ nice
mircea_popescu: such lulzy derpage. "Kim Jong Un is surrounded by weeping members of the Korean Children's Union. Some schoolgirls (not pictured) are picked from classrooms to join the so-called 'Pleasure Squad' that serves the country's elite"
mircea_popescu: "here's a random publicity of the photo showing obama being fucked in the ass by donald trump (not pictured)"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: factors appear to be correct superset of old. i'ma hook the thing up to live db tonight.
mircea_popescu: cool. i'm working on a little horror of my own, will rfc teh esteemed lordship later on.
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we can blast the thing nightly (or, perhaps even hourly..)
mircea_popescu: hourly seems fine if it's 15mn sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: epic shit, this.
asciilifeform: eh, bit of a downer to me
asciilifeform: i was expecting to find moar.
asciilifeform: (this, realize, is a total pairwise gcd, every-at-every)
asciilifeform: gotta make the 'eightball'
asciilifeform: (what i'm calling a synthetic 'rsa key' where modulus is product of 1st N primez)
asciilifeform: oughta knock out some moar.
asciilifeform: (does anyone not grasp why it needs 'eightball'..?)
adlai still awaits the fabled 8ball that'll keep him up all night doing euclid's algo by longhand
adlai: it's always just at the edge of my social circle, and frankly i should probably leave it there
asciilifeform: $up Apocalyptic
deedbot: Apocalyptic voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: $gettrust deedbot Apocalyptic
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 5 by 5 connections.
trinque: Apocalyptic: tried $up lately?
Apocalyptic: thank you, apparently deedbot wasn't correctly fixed as i'm still unable to up myself
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic ought to be able to up
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: yes just before I asked you
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/introducing-permanence/ << rfc diana_coman hanbot trinque BingoBoingo mod6 danielpbarron mike_c asciilifeform davout ben_vulpes phf
Apocalyptic: got "21:05 <deedbot> You must be registered."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how does para#2 work ??
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform: the modulus of what you're referring to as 'eightball' is actually called a primorial in math literature
asciilifeform: para#1 reads a bit like earlier project 'eternity'
mircea_popescu: phase 1 ? we just feed it a list of ips and root credentials.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: i know what it is called
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform link for that thing ?
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: but in our context the primorial has to take the shape of rsa key so the proggy can display it
Apocalyptic: naturally
trinque: $key Apocalyptic
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what thing
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> para#1 reads a bit like earlier project 'eternity'
adlai: mircea_popescu: whatever happened to the gsm modems sucking power off dushenski-reject autos?
adlai got the ol' meshnet boner from that one
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/eternity/eternity.html << it
mircea_popescu: adlai nothing much.
mircea_popescu: ty
asciilifeform: adlai: i still have the bag full of esp8266
adlai: meshnets, because ip versions can also go to eleven
mircea_popescu: adlai the only odd thing here is why do you ask me "what happened to x" ? this isn't what #trilema is for. #trilema is for you telling me "here's what i did with X".
adlai: mircea_popescu: i thought this was the one that didn't know how to shut up?
adlai: (for the judaically challenged - http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/1486118/jewish/The-Four-Children-Explained.htm )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sounds rather indistinguishable from 9999 other general similar derpage from the pre-dot-com boom era. could just as well be the early scribblings of jimbo "i do children" wales.
mircea_popescu: im bailing halfway through section 1.
adlai: Unfortunately, there is, in our time of confusion and obscurity, another kind of a Jewish child: the child who is conspicuous by his absence from the Seder Service; the one who has no interest whatsoever in Torah and G???d's commandments... who is not even aware of the Seder, of the Exodus from Egypt and the subsequent revelation at Sinai. ... sounds like ferrante!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was not very good, no
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally i will confess that your proposal, at least in so far as para#1, was actually the original point of my 'bitcoin in '06' thing
asciilifeform: (which went nowhere)
asciilifeform: but that was precisely what i wanted, yes
mircea_popescu: the better part of P is where it starts doing its own mining bots.
mircea_popescu: the rest is just fluff leading up to it.
asciilifeform: there was another project, which did go somewhere a bit, called 'owner free file system'
asciilifeform: also pertinent
adlai: in my utopifanfic, the first commandment is Thou Shalt Not Mine
mircea_popescu: ahahaha this "did go somewhere a bit" thing :D sweet.
adlai: kinda like weeding your garden and drinking your vitamins
mircea_popescu: adlai and why not ?
adlai: because it accelerates graygoo!
mircea_popescu: wotgoo is the point.
adlai: graydy-algo-goo.
adlai: wot doesn't need mining, wot is the solution to the mining bug
trinque: $key Apocalyptic
deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/9c199327-6915-420a-a97f-1189455b8bf4/
adlai: but mining is the solution to the whence-of-trust bug
mircea_popescu: this makes no sense. wut ?
trinque: ok Apocalyptic, try again. I missed a case sensitive -> insensitive.
adlai: it's another blog post from the future, i'll shut up now. let trinqui take over.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://offsystem.sourceforge.net << their ancient www
diana_coman: hm, I'm not sure I fully get it, gotta read it again with a clearer head, but so far: do I read that right that you are proposing in the end to trust the machine ?
mircea_popescu: i am actually proposing to remove ability of action from people incapable of controlling such a machine.
mircea_popescu: but in principle there's no reason each lord can't run his onw P, and even war with another's.
mircea_popescu: the whole point however is for any non-lord to be as incapable of action as lobsters at the market.
mircea_popescu: rubber bads on the clippers and all.
asciilifeform: we sorta have this re bitcoin.
diana_coman: ah, that sounds better
mircea_popescu: no further governments, elections, civil or human rights or any of the jazz. got P ? shall be the whole of the law.
adlai: mircea_popescu: a comment - you mention homomorphic encryption with out qualifying part- or fully. the former exists! the latter...
asciilifeform: as i understand, this is the ancient dream of 'run program nowhere at all but everywhere'
mircea_popescu: adlai the thing needed here does not exist.
shinohai: $rated trinque
adlai: the idea being, running pnodes as seemingly innocent processes on, say, aws/gce/etc?
deedbot: shinohai rated trinque 1 at 3650630430 << Thanks for the help w/ Gentoo
mircea_popescu: the thing needed here is, "here's meaningless token X which really means 2 ; and here's meaningless token Y, which really means +, and here's meaningless token Z, which really means 2." and you respond with meaningless token K, which really is 4, and never know 2 or + or 4.
asciilifeform: this is trivial until you also want the enemy to not be able to infer which token means, e.g., '+' in reasonable effort
adlai: interesting, extending the homomorphism to the operations themselves
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i did say "and never know..."
asciilifeform: then it is called 'indistinguishable obfuscation'
deedbot: [Trilema] Introducing [P]ermanence - http://trilema.com/2016/introducing-permanence/
asciilifeform: the lulzy bit is that it is currently my day job, to test schemes for this.
mircea_popescu: not so lulzy as much as coincidental
mircea_popescu: for god teh lord doth not throw dice.
asciilifeform: now, none of said schemes work, but they are all built with braindamaged assumption
asciilifeform: namely, that proggy runs on ~singular box~
asciilifeform: rather than n-of-m net.
Apocalyptic: trinque: works now
trinque: good deal
mircea_popescu: the only important thing there really, is to offer 100% guarantee that sepukku rather than dishonor.
mircea_popescu: defined like that, the problem is (i think) significantly more tractable.
mircea_popescu: the tru braindamaged assumption is to assume everlasting life, like we're in heaven or some bs
asciilifeform: elaborate plox
mircea_popescu: the only, or at least the first guarantee P must make is that it will destroy itself before being subverted.
mircea_popescu: as long as no P can ever be captured, P makes an unbeatable army.
asciilifeform: gotta define 'subvert'
mircea_popescu: EVEN IF it's "not very useful".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform enemy extracting as much as 1 bit of non-entropy.
mircea_popescu: (this is currently the situation, ftr. all the Ps are dead)
asciilifeform: enemy can simply record the bits passively from a captured node, unless the thing is a ~physical~ fort
mircea_popescu: this recording a) should be detectable and b) should not be useful.
asciilifeform: and if he does this for n of m, whatever the magic n, you've been undetectably owned
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this then reduces to 'tamper-proof box'
adlai: the human taboo against theft does bitcoin a poor canary make.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps. i am unsure.
asciilifeform: other observation is that extant hardware is very poorly suited to self-destruct (as in permanently losing bits on demand)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider a simple scheme : n of m, where every $timeinterval k of m are discarded.
mircea_popescu: now enemy must gather more than k per $timeinterval units to eventually reach n.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in general, i would prefer a version where "destruct" === "abandoned by P".
mircea_popescu: (the simple scheme above lulzily reduces to... mining!)
asciilifeform: with sufficient % of sybil, enemy can reconstruct history
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "abandoned by P" might mean "fed spurious data".
mircea_popescu: we're under no obligation to tell the truth ; merely to keep impervious track of all the lies.
asciilifeform: sure
asciilifeform: and this is sorta what happens in a bitcoinatron
asciilifeform: (chain forklets)
mircea_popescu: kinda ya
mircea_popescu: not so good tho - it's a tree.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's scheme orthogonalizes into several separate axis
asciilifeform: one is that it is a generalization of bitcoin
mircea_popescu: maybe. does it have to ?
asciilifeform: in fact, same one i originally tried for, and was quite disappointed in bitcoin not being
asciilifeform: but the other is the 'obfuscated' thing
mircea_popescu: anyway. P-G-V-iB and we're getting somewhere.
asciilifeform: the funny part is that there is already a comical nazi version of this
asciilifeform: (urbit!)
mircea_popescu: aha. tmsr might give the clown a 2nd lease on lyf.
asciilifeform: sorta why i followed the project for as long as i did
asciilifeform: it was fundamentally the right idea but implemented with inconceivable degree of braindamage - and - at least in the last few yrs - by the Professionally Sad
mircea_popescu: for my own curiosity, does c. yarvin figure on the list of good citizens & old bolsheviks that were yehzov'd by stalinmp or notrly ?
asciilifeform: more of a sun yatsen
asciilifeform: or hm
asciilifeform: chiang kai-shek.
mircea_popescu: i always kinda liked that guy.
asciilifeform: prolly the most recent leader to boil derps
asciilifeform: in actual pots
shinohai: ;;later tell mod6 i cannot make t display a single ticket, only the whole lot. Plz advise.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell trinque can haz phuctor rss hookup in deedbot plox ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: hey shinohai: should be something like this `./t.pl ticket.txt pid 18`
mod6: something might be broken in there though, im currently trying to wrap up some clean up stuff right now.
shinohai: OH ok i didn't use `pid`
mod6: so if it doens't work right, no big worries.
mod6: ah, ok.
shinohai: nah still shows them all even if i add `pid`
mod6: hrm. ok will look into it.
mod6: seems to be fixed on my side.
mod6: just hang tight, will have something for you to test here shrtly.