tmsr - Search: allcomers

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: as you can see on my www -- allcomers. just like in e.g. phuctor.

asciilifeform: the protocol is 'fractally retarded' -- i.e. broken on absolutely erry possible level. starting from where it takes exactly 1 trivially forged packet to close someone's connection, to where 'allcomers' get a substantial chunk of memory allocated , and make ddos trivial , to where it forces 9000x moar complicated design of routing gear, to... could continue but why.

asciilifeform: still remains the case that good % of what is typically thought of as the protocol, is actually promise ( i.e. it is trivial for a constructed noad to feed 'allcomers' 1 mempool, with stale shit, while he himself mines from entirely other set, that he dun relay to anyone , etc )

asciilifeform: as for the diplomats , would mircea_popescu even prefer that 'allcomers' could actually find'em ?

a111: Logged on 2019-02-27 09:22 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-26#1899436 <-- no, but allcomers are allcoming and allleeching.

asciilifeform: it's 'sound tradeoff' until it aint (e.g. you have system where 'allcomers' can trigger a grep on a data set they crafted, and yer box grinds to a halt )

asciilifeform: ( and also happen to know why : they 'give to allcomers' in the sense of allocating memory for state of tcp connection. therefore it stands to reason that if one built router that doesn't tcp at all -- it will not fall. )

asciilifeform: but yes, 'allcomers p2p' allows 9000 types of abuses ( if you think about it, the fact that one is able to build a simple mechanism to map out the net, is not actually a win , for that matter ) , noose at 11

mircea_popescu: (have you noticed, btw, back in the days of free !!ups to allcomers, what large proportion of those? "who are you, x ?" "i am x" "but that's nobody" "nevertheless!")

asciilifeform: rereading http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857215 -- if you actually gotta take 'new rsa key' from allcomers, and there is no way to have'em know a seekrit bitstring prior , then yes afaik it is impossible to do better than mircea_popescu's algo. ( it is unclear to me what's to prevent enemy from swamping your system with new acct requests and giving you 9000 TB of rsa keys to store, but possibly i missed a detail ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: to mathematize : if the validity of a received datum can depend not only on past , but on ~future~ data, you have a 'to allcomers' ram giveaway. precisely like the 'orphanages' etc

asciilifeform: one of the dozen foundational idjicies of the arpa people , was permitting 'allcomers' to clog up routing tables with state.

asciilifeform: seems to me that items come in 'allcomers' and 'closed wot', and 'allcomers+bans' is simply recipe for whackamole

a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 14:44 mircea_popescu: but yes, evidently the (undiagnosed ; are these people morons ?!) problem is that "anything could be a firewall rule", ie, this is a place where the scripting turns upon the whole machine state. which makes me suspoect there's a more fundamental error at work somewhere (possibly the very attempt to build a pantsuit net, allcomers-based, possibly something else), but until we get a fix on that...

asciilifeform: the 'allow allcomers but magically filter badness' juniper thing, imho is dead end.

mircea_popescu: but yes, evidently the (undiagnosed ; are these people morons ?!) problem is that "anything could be a firewall rule", ie, this is a place where the scripting turns upon the whole machine state. which makes me suspoect there's a more fundamental error at work somewhere (possibly the very attempt to build a pantsuit net, allcomers-based, possibly something else), but until we get a fix on that... ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'make own fleanode' ( out of e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1837110 ) isn't much of a pill, the 'allcomers problem' doesn't go away merely from standing up a coupla ircd boxen ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836361 << i dunno that a comment's that important. basically it's the "string for allcomers" portion of wot mechanics. ☝︎

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << i'd not distribute anything but trb patches to allcomers ~already~; if i made a useful thing i'd trivially share the source for it with l1 and rely on y'alls judgement as to whom to further share it with but i wouldn't concern myself with preventing leaks-to-kloinkers. beyond that, i share certain specific source with a subset of my own l1 and no further, with a ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-17 13:35 asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform's pov re the retardation of 'open sores' , rms et al, is that they are tards not because they throw open the coad to allcomers but because they have no concept of wot , therefore were unable to conceptualize vtronics .

asciilifeform: the sw repeater item, for instance, only becomes thinkable once you dispense with 'allcomers' and realize that there's no reason to forward anything not signed with l1 key, etc

asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform's pov re the retardation of 'open sores' , rms et al, is that they are tards not because they throw open the coad to allcomers but because they have no concept of wot , therefore were unable to conceptualize vtronics . ☟︎

mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers. ☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ( cuz they're, elementarily, not really 'private', they're ~allcomers typically )

a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 04:23 trinque: other than that, I'd be curious why the hell the kernel wasn't capable of pulling an adult root up itself. usually this is because the kernel was again, built for allcomers, or more specifically for linux users afraid of configuring a kernel (present company excluded, of course). this ends.

trinque: other than that, I'd be curious why the hell the kernel wasn't capable of pulling an adult root up itself. usually this is because the kernel was again, built for allcomers, or more specifically for linux users afraid of configuring a kernel (present company excluded, of course). this ends. ☟︎

trinque: seems upon the man building the kernel for allcomers to justify himself, as my kernels are narrower

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-05#1820744 <-- yes, although I'm personally not convinced one way or the other. my q is, should "allcomers" (e.g. people without WoT presence) even be able to comment? I don't know, maybe the question itself has no merit, mircea_popescu is of course much more qualified than me to establish this. ☝︎

asciilifeform: it is a little bit funny to talk of bogdown and dos 'vulnerability' in a proggy that happily does o(n) operations at the request of allcomers

mircea_popescu: this is a not-negotiable point, bitcoin is the currency of the republic, and payments will be made in it. let allcomers figure out how to buy the bitcoin they absolutely need.

lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-03#1780773 << ftr this is how I'm currently designing "!Qarchive-bulk-download" to work. Bot will check with deedbot for a key registered, then verify good wot standing in my L1. No allcomers allowed! ☝︎

phf: well, we don't really have non-allcomers web systems ourselves. the only example from past is mp's retired token system

asciilifeform: and if you must build a public toilet ( i.e. box where allcomers get to affect the memory addressing sequence ) build it from sram.

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other recent 'to allcomers' lulz , https://archive.is/3OTat >> '...n the Tesla world as a Model S owner built a cryptocurrency mining rig in his electric car... The idea was suggested in order to use the free access to electricity with the Supercharger network. Technically, if someone is able to draw power from the Tesla to power those mining systems... '

a111: Logged on 2017-02-28 13:38 asciilifeform: to wind it up, the casks algo is asciilifeform's attempt at the 'high vacuum pump' from earlier -- to get the max possible removal of something-to-allcomers element , to the extent possible without running an entirely closed wotronic system (and consequently turning into visa or swift)

trinque: the thought re OTP is if I don't force people to verify one, I'm letting allcomers generate "chosen-plaintext" for a particular key

asciilifeform: the tricky bit is how to propagate these without ending up with 'no individual node gives anything to allcomers, yes, but allcomer can ring the whole world as a bell and it never stops'

asciilifeform: did we ever do the 'processing reorgs requires extending some credit to allcomers' thread ?

asciilifeform: ( i will also note, the problem with allowing packet fragging is that frag reassembly is a Something-To-Allcomers operation . )

mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear the faux "empowerment" open-allcomers generates in the allcomers is actually good for anyone.

asciilifeform: it ain't 'to allcomers' though, but to folx with skill and will to assemble the thing.

a111: Logged on 2016-09-09 15:21 asciilifeform: and violates the principle of nothing-to-allcomers.

asciilifeform: to wind it up, the casks algo is asciilifeform's attempt at the 'high vacuum pump' from earlier -- to get the max possible removal of something-to-allcomers element , to the extent possible without running an entirely closed wotronic system (and consequently turning into visa or swift) ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: there are two known solutions to 'allcomers problem' -- proof-of-work; and limited-access (wotronic). tertium ~probably~ non datur.

asciilifeform: if mining were not an intrinsically heathen activity, 'closed network' would solve the 'allcomers' problem. but as i currently understand, it'd simply ~move~ it.

asciilifeform: for as long as the enemy is able to keep up the 'gimme, gimme, gimme' flood of 'ahahaha, you're giving something to allcomers! well where's mine'

asciilifeform: then solves 'to allcomers', because the cpu cycle cost of eating a tx can be determined in O(1).

asciilifeform: trb node is, for instance, continuously engaged in the sin of 'something to allcomers'.

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how do you square this "someone mighta" with "nothing for allcomers", and in particular "a specific thing for nobody"?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here i gotta agree, the 'allcomers can get their tx candidates evaluated' is doomed

asciilifeform: the 'fixed peers' thing is actually the tip of a very nontrivial iceberg, because bitcoin was not in fact designed as a 'wotronic' mechanism, and it is not clear that 'nothing to allcomers' is safely retrofittable on it

mircea_popescu: anyway. the concept of "nothing to allcomers" logically extends to property on one hand ; the notion of holding property outside of a proper signature is utterly nonsensical on the other hand. however you look at things, a reversal of "progressive" innovation in legal matters is unavoidable.

asciilifeform: the other fundamental aspect, other than 'nothing-to-allcomers' is that synchronous comms over lossy media (e.g. radio) do not work well. the thing that works well is 'i'll pour a bucket of luby in your direction, and you - in mine.'

asciilifeform: i.e. if A has to ~ask~ B something and wait for a reply every time they communicate, it violates nothing-to-allcomers.

a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 22:34 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#943 << if you dunno where to send you should go read the logs instead. ha-ha! nothing to allcomers!

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#943 << if you dunno where to send you should go read the logs instead. ha-ha! nothing to allcomers! ☟︎

asciilifeform: this is the basic nothing-to-allcomers principle. for wot - everything. for rando - NOTHING. not even 'challenge packet' or whatever.