BingoBoingo: Oh, crap I went for a walk and missed cazalla
BingoBoingo: <cazalla> ill speak to the new squeeze but she's pretty, not so smart, just as likely to bring me the opposite << What language does her mom speak?
BingoBoingo: Was actually published a few hours ago, but Freenode weather
mircea_popescu: ikr, trilema got one too. speaking of which asciilifeform we actually spent nothing this month huh! (booked the year colo in july tho paid on like 3rd)
cazalla: BingoBoingo, ilonggo and tagalog
cazalla: these girls are tiny little things, no ass, no chest, sweet though
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i have any idea of what you want from the logs, but can we come up with some specifics so i have some kind of framework as to work with
cazalla: i don't wanna be the white foreign guy hitting on young girls tbh
cazalla: i guess i don't have the experience and it makes me feel uncomfortable chatting with someone under 18 even if it's benign, call it conditioning from the west
cazalla: and these taiwanese consider themselves seperate from the chinese, although they are of the same blood
cazalla: they make the distinction where as i don't, but do you if i bring some taiwanese lass in here?
BingoBoingo: Well, what kinds of places are you sleeping on your adventures?
cazalla: i already know what you'll say re: accommodation though :)
cazalla: surprised enough i got a plane and went overseas.. really should've done that shit a long time ago
cazalla: i did get out of my head, i hear (and have read from your own account) what you're saying, went out on a few day trips with the locals and spoke to them etc
cazalla: not much i can say you haven't experienced or don't already know having done it i guess
BingoBoingo: Well, a good chunk of it is the when of being around people
diana_coman: asciilifeform, trinque in case it helps, the kernel option I need to turn on in order to be able to run iptables on the smg machine is networking support/networking options/network packet filtering framework/core netfilter configuration/netfilter xtables support
☟︎ trinque: sounds right to me; there are myriad other kernel options for various rule types for iptables
mircea_popescu: this sounds like a terrible way to go about it. what, fiddling with iptables = kernel rebuild ? why even have a scriptable config if this is how it goes, jaysus
trinque: I can't anticipate every single use case someone's going to have.
trinque: or could otherwise just bundle every single module and driver.
mircea_popescu: we're not even discussing you, here. i was talking about iptables.
trinque: which isn't how I run my own kernels at all.
trinque: ah, yeah, API to hook to some userland filter proggie and be done with it, eh?
trinque: but then the Linux kernel even has in-built TLS support these days (at least optional, for now)
mircea_popescu: it's my understanding that the point of adding scriptability to a program is exactly that : to permit changes in its functioning ("configuration") without requiring a whole recompile. much like the point of adding a steering wheel in a car is to permit the car to take arbitrary curves, as scripted at time of driving. rather than having to driver (how?) car back to factory get a new one with the differently inclined wheelbase.
mircea_popescu: even though a car with fixed wheel inclination would be more robust and cheaper to build.
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, if "iptables" as a module requires recompilation in order for the scripting to work, it's exactly like a car which, upon turning the wheel, puts up an order for a new car via the useful app instead of turning the wheels.
mircea_popescu: now, it boggles my mind that this is how it'd fucking work. is it ?!
trinque: more like "if you want to filter by bandwidth throughput instead of source/dest IP, gotta add new module"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: well this promises to be a serio0us problem that can't be winged, but will require some thought ; in part because i don't directly see the difference ; and in part because i don't really think a machine without a functioning way to limit access to it is actually seaworthy.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i mean, it'd be ok for a terminal. but as a server it gotta have something-like-iptables neh ?
trinque: there is an extremely broad category of possible iptables/netfilter doodads with which to make a firewall, router, etc. I could certainly see use in defining a subset of what's available as standard.
trinque: iirc diana_coman is running an asciilifeform kernel, but I think alf approaches kernels similarly to me: "nothing broke when I turned this off, so off" until that heuristic bumps into something. going to be different bumps in different deployments.
diana_coman: it is asciilifeform's kernel indeed; iptables or something else to limit access though I think is a must on a server
mircea_popescu: trinque kinda what i was thinking here, spend an hour thinking what'd make the cut, put it in, and that's it.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman 's thing above serving as a "no less than" seeing how minigame is a major downstream adopter ; and the usual "more loc ?! fu!" as a "no more than" driver.
mircea_popescu: but yes, evidently the (undiagnosed ; are these people morons ?!) problem is that "anything could be a firewall rule", ie, this is a place where the scripting turns upon the whole machine state. which makes me suspoect there's a more fundamental error at work somewhere (possibly the very attempt to build a pantsuit net, allcomers-based, possibly something else), but until we get a fix on that...
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 14:16 diana_coman: asciilifeform, trinque in case it helps, the kernel option I need to turn on in order to be able to run iptables on the smg machine is networking support/networking options/network packet filtering framework/core netfilter configuration/netfilter xtables support
trinque: diana_coman: mind throwing me your kernel .config for comparison with mine?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, original box did not have iptables support, no
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I have iptables atm; the idea was to have it by default on any new config/box/system
mircea_popescu: the other idea being that apparently it's not even strictly speaking clear what "have iptables" means.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which modules did you end up putting in ?
trinque: aha, "what does firewall mean to /me/ ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you gotta get better at labeling. "old" here is "not april ; but thje later one" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-08-01 21:28 diana_coman: after reading around on this mess with the usb speeds, the summary + questions would be: 1. the dwc_otg seems actually specific to raspberry pi so I don't see how it's directly useful atm; am I missing something? 2. the manual/runtime pill so far relies on the companion mechanism to force a USB port down from "high speed" to "full speed" so basically from ehci to uhci/ohci; wouldn't it make more sense to blacklist ehci, xhci and whatever
trinque: diana_coman: that's going to have speed implications for anyone attaching an external drive, neh?
mircea_popescu: ah right, days of general-purpose kernel also pre-2018 item huh.
trinque: yep that throws out usb 3.0
mircea_popescu: alright. it seems the logical cut here is to disentangle trinque from kernel talk. go ye and make cuntoo ; wtf will we do with the kernels, this is rapidly reverting to 1800s standards of engineering, "die with knowledge"
trinque: except that the product of the build isn't bootable without one, but build takes the kernel config as a parameter, so it can indeed be entirely separate
mircea_popescu: yes, but... "here's one for amd with raid so and so and fg no external ssd" "here's one for the vibrating bulled you gotta wear per mp orders" "here's one for..." we'll catch our ears.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 14:33 trinque: more like "if you want to filter by bandwidth throughput instead of source/dest IP, gotta add new module"
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 14:34 mircea_popescu: well this promises to be a serio0us problem that can't be winged, but will require some thought ; in part because i don't directly see the difference ; and in part because i don't really think a machine without a functioning way to limit access to it is actually seaworthy.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, what did you use then? I'm not a huge fan of iptables in any way and this have-to-recompile-kernel doesn't help but I don't know of anything else that is better
diana_coman: the fact that some still do doesn't really = they have no trouble
mircea_popescu: ie, "the problem with iptables is that as defined can not exist" ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman can i get you behind this "iptables are for amateurs" line ?
☟︎ diana_coman: I am very, very tempted but precisely for this reason still trying to make sure I'm not just preferring the easy way out here
mircea_popescu: diana_coman thinking logically : either this is a problem or it isn't. if it is a problem, then it should be handled upstream not by server.
mircea_popescu: i suspect "iptables" is like "php implementation of ftp" : most people don't have their own isp.
mircea_popescu: i misspoke. i meant "this is a sorry reason to write code."
mircea_popescu: code written to circumvent administrative failure is possibily the source of wank. 20yo who "fought idiot vice-principal" with code rathere than club.
mircea_popescu: if the wrong "rules" of the administrative office get in the way, the only acceptable solutionb is to fucking burn it down.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the rate this is going, i guess nsa will soon be in the business of producing flood-fighters ; considering what the "professional" crapola out there costs...
mircea_popescu: there's nothing saying pizarro isn't building its own dc.
diana_coman: if I understand correctly asciilifeform's solution is essentially not as much kill the pest as make the whole thing pest-resilient
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you understand, item by cisco/friends not amounting to a rockchip plant sells to usg.tards for 100k sorta money.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seriously, since we're apparently not selling the rockchip plant to pizarro : how about you build it and make it a "cyberflood master 9000" ?
mircea_popescu: plugs directly into datacenter's colocation, filters out "bad" traffic.
mircea_popescu: possibly i didn't make it plain enough that SUCH AN ITEM ALREADY IS PLUGGED IN THERE ?
mircea_popescu: since you're not using any hot glue guns, the task is suprisingly easy.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if "av" sold for six figures. it doesn't.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:28 mircea_popescu: do you understand the crystal ball problem ?
mircea_popescu: this has the essential veblen good blessing, being a hardware box.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:07 mircea_popescu: diana_coman can i get you behind this "iptables are for amateurs" line ?
mircea_popescu: and without the hotglue gb nics and without the derpy fpga "we dunno how to use things".
mircea_popescu: (for the newly born : carload of moneys "know tricks". right.)
mircea_popescu: you keep thinking in these absolute terms. sometimes relative terms are important.
mircea_popescu: better in that it will expose pantsuit packets to us, for instance.
trinque: better in that it liberates their cash into your hand so you can goto 10
mircea_popescu: better in that also. better in the sense that it'll use less wattage to do the same ~nothing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would you not want to do this ?! it's beyond comprehension.
trinque: "can't steal and sell sov tanks because to hell with the communists" to my ears
mircea_popescu: more's like "cant steal ~half the gold from this bank until someone comes with a credible plan to also steal the bricks from the walls"
trinque: asciilifeform: I think your mind is set on correctness, which blocks a pragmatic "better" which is only defined by delta with competition
mircea_popescu: i dunno how he's supposed to be from odessa, don't got not a gypsy bone in his body.
diana_coman: from a tech point of view the trouble with "better by delta" is that you are then stuck dealing with the remaining shit anyway; but sometimes it's still the way to go
mircea_popescu: so, you're paying good money to have BingoBoingo on the ground there ; what "on the ground means" is that he can go to dc and say "hey guise, will you test this box we make ? no charge". IF they agree, and IF you have made the tmsruniper, and IF indeed they come out of it thinking they're better off with that, THEN you can sell it for credit, and not need to do more wires. yes ?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, BingoBoingo you ARE making cozy with dc tech people rite ? taking them out to smoke & crimping them to pot or w/e it is they do socially there ?
mircea_popescu: i have not yet encountered a dc which didn't have a waffle list composed mostly of junishits.
mircea_popescu: waffle list here being "well... do we need it ? maybe we need it ? let's get it ? wait a while ? hmm ?"
mircea_popescu: like a social media "wish list", but for people who actually have some money.
trinque: gotta demo to sell these things, and gotta know what causes them pain to know what to demo
trinque: (and is BingoBoingostan buying top shelf?)
mircea_popescu: i dunno what the fuck you think juniper is ; but as a factual matter juniper is the result of exactly this conversation among dumber people ~15 years ago.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: we have TWO metallic squares ; and ours have holes in them!
mircea_popescu: so it's your expert oppinion you can't actually make a better one ?
mircea_popescu: if i've learned anything about you over the years is that you're absolutely never right as to what anything costs.
mircea_popescu: this doesn't sound like more than a few hundred adalines.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:14 asciilifeform: ( 'industrial' telco gear is pretty much 'bsd box with array of GB nics soldered in' + some shitware )
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:27 asciilifeform: trinque: 'competition' box routes 1G/s from 48 jacks, daisy-chains with 10GB/s snakes, compiles ip filter rules into 1mil+ gate fpga fabric. how do i bake a sucks-less without large fpga ? ( we dun have large fpga, tho we do have working tiny ones )
mircea_popescu: actually, i was thinking, the tiny ices you use could be an intermediate step -- think alf, instead of fabric-of-transistors, fabric-of-ice
mircea_popescu: if it can process 100Gp/s rather than juniper's mahahahaybe 10Gp, nobody cares it eats a kw.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, part of the reason i've been working on getting some chinese ppls is that i entirely don';t believe single die fabbing is as expensive today as you think.
mircea_popescu: however, before you make dies you gotta know what you put in ; and i know of no other way to find out.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:48 mircea_popescu: however, before you make dies you gotta know what you put in ; and i know of no other way to find out.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 18:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if we had any fab capacity to speak of, these'd be the priority items : 1) large homogeneous fpga 2) otp roms 3) 1+2
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:14 asciilifeform: ( 'industrial' telco gear is pretty much 'bsd box with array of GB nics soldered in' + some shitware )
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:36 mircea_popescu: i dunno what the fuck you think juniper is ; but as a factual matter juniper is the result of exactly this conversation among dumber people ~15 years ago.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:29 asciilifeform: now what i ~have~ wanted to bake, for years nao, is a box with ~2~ jacks, that tests rsa sigs on specially-defined packets at line speed, and drops all the ones that dun pass. this is imho the Right Thing, for entirely curing the disease in question.
mircea_popescu: which is not coincidentally how everything works, bitcoin, the republic, the lordship, etcetera.
mircea_popescu: you don't really gain so much by having your special packets encapsulated in tcp
mircea_popescu: you know, the 2nd thing i know from watching you is that this conversation suddenly spinning in circles pretty well predicts you knew you were wrong re other call.
mircea_popescu: well yes, but the question before you is, "have i actually sat down, thought this through, and it dun work" or is it a case of "my first impulse was so and so and now i'm stuck with it like any 9 yo" ?
mircea_popescu: at least we managed to come to a narrative that stands to cursory examination.
mircea_popescu: "yes it's true telco gear is mostly openbsd box with nics glued on ; but it's also true that is mostly old ; replacing it, when it happens, is mostly with nobusisms baked by the chinese to order, and it's a tough racket."
mircea_popescu: whether there is a hole there or isn't is an iffier problem. i am not overconcerned with it ; understand that wheever, in the großer generalstab or corporate boardroom, the story's always the same : "and we should send brigadier-general X to reduce the bulge" "it can't be fucking done, are you out of your mind ?!"
mircea_popescu: on one hand people shouldn't be sent to do things that can't be done ; on the other hand somethings gotta can be done or else we're all sunk eventually.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> speaking of which, BingoBoingo you ARE making cozy with dc tech people rite ? taking them out to smoke & crimping them to pot or w/e it is they do socially there ? << Fairly friendly with them now that Rodrigo (Fellow who decided to be the point man in the February affair, ben_vulpes met) is gone.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know i suspect one of the washing machines could do with fixing...
mircea_popescu: yeah, usg supply lines going to shit at a seemingly exponential rate
mircea_popescu: "we have this website, can order anything" "you mean besides plastic cup holders ?" "WHO WOULD WANT THAT!!!"
mircea_popescu: and then when it starts blinking, konsoomer will be in the exact 1989 position.
mircea_popescu: "i know... the way to win is to be as vulnerable as possible!"
mircea_popescu: "let's do new orleans continent-wide, that worked so well for us!"
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform dreams of living in a thing where he could have pit, crane... << Paraguay!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It is mule and dump country. They take old Jap cars and flip the steering to the other side.
BingoBoingo: Likely, they actually import used cars there (Rest of Mercosur only imports new)
mircea_popescu: but take bartholomew, the early 2000s bmw. all it needs is maintenance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform will replace engine with other car's engine at some point.
mircea_popescu: but it's way the fuck better to maintain this car than to try and what, 20k for last year's kia ? noty.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 14:44 mircea_popescu: but yes, evidently the (undiagnosed ; are these people morons ?!) problem is that "anything could be a firewall rule", ie, this is a place where the scripting turns upon the whole machine state. which makes me suspoect there's a more fundamental error at work somewhere (possibly the very attempt to build a pantsuit net, allcomers-based, possibly something else), but until we get a fix on that...
mircea_popescu: scripting fundamentally IS NOT THAT ; moving the steer will result in changes of direction, but will NOT result in changes of tapestry.
mircea_popescu: an attempt to "make tapestry scriptable also" is the sure sign that women-in-general are now involved in that concern.
ave1: trinque, re
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-03#1847167, yes turned out the git that cuntoo uses did not support
https and my ufw settings did not allow an outgoing git port number. Now it fails it a bit further along with dependencies on gnupg-2.2, but I think this was a known breakage...
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-09-03 22:37 trinque: ave1: couldn't reproduce your errors. all I had to do to re-run the cuntoo build was to fix the portage snapshot var.
trinque: no, not known. the thing runs start to finish on my end.
trinque: ave1: however, when I grunt out this genesis vpatch, git dependency evaporates.
trinque: layman (portage overlay manager) is pulling that in
ave1: trinque: I get the error when this line is run: sudo chroot . emerge eudev lilo genkernel gentoo-sources app-crypt/gnupg parted sudo
ave1: asciilifeform: I did not build an arm32 version yet (but should be easier that aarch64), it does have something with different abi that have to be named. I will check this week
ave1: yes, support should be there (one of the most irratating problems I had was with the config.guess scripts not includig a particular system)
ave1: Also the first time that I tried to rebuild a kernel, first try needed 15G of harddisk space and created a 3G kernel (now down to 500mb, which compresses to about 12 or so, but still)
trinque: ave1: I appreciate the testing, will put another version in your hands soon
ave1: Yes, this is when you base the kernel off the ubuntu config (with all modules enabled) and then try to include all modules in the kernel.
BingoBoingo: And thank you hanbot, the V Genesised MP-WP is very nice. Much improved dashboard and editors.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: lobbes: What sort of memory footprint is mysql leaving on your rockchip?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2013-03-11 07:01 dub: there is thousands of retarded children with a handfull of hackers hiding behind them
a111: Logged on 2013-03-11 07:03 mircea_popescu: dub how do you explain most cocksuckers can't use bitcoin ?
a111: Logged on 2013-03-11 07:17 mircea_popescu: actually the plan was to have tcp/ip reimpremented over pigeons
mircea_popescu: smickles was very active, bright and clear minded accountant guy.
mircea_popescu: in five years one'd think "oh, the people from 2018, bought millions' worth of btc, are now rich". to the people of 2018, bitcoin seems, somehow, "expensive". which is necessary -- if it didn't, price'd rise.
mircea_popescu: similarly for people of 2013, you realise ? "it was expensive"
mircea_popescu: i still recall with amusement rassah's story about how he bought a bunch of coins without bf's permission out of their retirement fund, at 8!! and sold it all! at 13!!! RICH NAO FOREVER, because will pay off car.
Mocky: I cpu mined bitcoin when it was under 10. I made hundreds of dollars
mircea_popescu: you utterly misunderstand. all these wankers did 0 work, precise to 6 decimals.
mircea_popescu: get out, rassah spent whole life writing social media crap. like that david gerard animated scarecrow thing.
mircea_popescu: o look at that, "I helped run plenty of conferences. I do have an idea. The priority is to make sure you have a conference that runs well enough that people don't notice the problems, and that everyone who paid to attend it gets their money's worth. Who actually paid to make it happen is a bit lower on the priority."
mircea_popescu: cazalla's comments meanwhile beleted, but lulzy reddit thread he links
mircea_popescu: ("theymos" "rassah" 8 3572807706 "Holds BTC for the forum.") << aaahahaha epic luzl.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:32 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's do a 0cost experiment, why dontcha float the idea to the dc people, see reaction.
mircea_popescu: ^ this was a thing. "bitcoin jesus" was a thing. all sorta lulz lie buried in the everlog.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mercaptans. << Ah, those sulphur smelling wenches with the cloaca and scales!
mircea_popescu: the problem with manufactury is that often the evaluation of cultural artefacts produced is very difficult.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is false, incidentally. amir taaki famously had his 16 yo sister camho for coins.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there was a lot of metals dealing for coin back in the day.
mircea_popescu: sure does. walk into any us conference of professionals
mircea_popescu: be it judges, politicians, realtors or the community of poets from wisconsin
mircea_popescu: not exactly, a lot of foreign derps in bitcoin, esp early 2010s.
mircea_popescu: most of these bums, from taaki to whoever else, are precisely not the us professional class, but the orc dreamer.
mircea_popescu: pretend to make gods of men all ye will, the problems of gods then they'll assail.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> that eternal eldorado, eh << Nah, Miami
mircea_popescu: in other news, /me is working on a monstrous, 70k+ words as it stands nao, work of adnotation.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 19:04 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: does ro have that folk tale, where 'go left, lose your horse, go right, lose yer life,...' etc ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ah, the 3 road forks was "on this road you'll never come back"
diana_coman: the take was take a feather or whatever it was
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I don't recall any explicit fork in harap alb? or what, after he gets into the well, the "choice"?
mircea_popescu: hmm, i'm goping through creanga's cannonical and i don't see it ; but i quite literally recall this "take the left, lose your life ; take the right, lose your quest ; go straight ahead and lose both"
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 17:07 BingoBoingo: And thank you hanbot, the V Genesised MP-WP is very nice. Much improved dashboard and editors.
hanbot:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-04#1847674 << always was and still is fear. everyone i talk to, from parent to phlebotomist to self-imagined "people in crypto" says the same shit: they don't know how, and learning looks too vast, and nobody will issue them certificate of Everything's-Okay.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: and god only had a few million souls at the peak available and the women kept pouring out children, and well...
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The people peddling the outlandish nonsense go out of their way to relieve fear. It's what the swindlers do
BingoBoingo: Sure they don't have souls, but they got some rusty python scripts to follow
mircea_popescu: there is that ; but more common with older folks seems a deep and fundamental ineptitude with the programmable machines
mircea_popescu: watch them at work, the impression becomes inescapable you're trying to teach lizzards writing
mircea_popescu: "but your right honorable greatness! WE HAVE NO OPPOSABLE THUMBS!"
mircea_popescu: to put the matter into proper formalization : the old world, of mechanical contraptions that could be physically debugged, was relatively simple and moreover in certain senses and on some dimensions very strictly constrained. consequently it was possible to build exam-taking rulebooks that allowed a large population of morons to build up, and "work", passibly well, as church wardens, ship righters, what have you.
mircea_popescu: but the more abstract world of representation (aptly described not by the computer, but by the trilema-style referencing, which is more fundamental a computer than the computer itself for the needs of this conversation) suddenly exploded all that. like when you lift a rug, suddenly all sorts of scum was exposed that before passed.
mircea_popescu: "you are not smart enough to be here" certaily means something at all points of human existence, from the eleusine days forward, and before. but WHAT it exactly means depends strictly on how sharp and how effectual tools there are available ti distinguish sense from idiocy.
mircea_popescu: yes, but in a different aspect ; that concerned principally the happenstance that labour is no longer a thing, much like phlogiston is no longer a thing.
mircea_popescu: this has no bearing on the expectations of people to feed themselves through work of their hands ; but it speaks rather on the expectation of people that they can make friends.
mircea_popescu: as a factual matter, i could (and did) pick up women i'd share a bed with on the street, some short two decades ago. even less.
mircea_popescu: today i have to go through millions of "profiles", and the results are overall less satisfactory.
mircea_popescu: it never occured to me to inquire whether, or that i'd care if, 1998 girly wrote anything. who the fuck cares, "sense enough to not get run over" was plenty, then.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i fear that may be just so much wishful thinking.
mircea_popescu: literally this, things are important now that literally did not exist a decade, or a century, or ten thousand centuries ago.
mircea_popescu: dante wisely never asked beatrice if she could read the latin verse. nor did he care
mircea_popescu: which is why renaissance did not start with dante ; it included him, but in effigy.
mircea_popescu: and for same reason he didn't care -- he also didn't start the renaissance.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: besides, one's in a much better position to find comnena in 1200s than 1400s. by the 1400s, nobody in italy could read greek, you realise this ?
mircea_popescu: special greek teacher had to be imported, and was the only and first one in century+
mircea_popescu: (and since we're doing notes : anna porphyrogenita has an ancient name, which approximately meant the same as "comely". Ἄννα Κομνηνή, anna the comely. looks nothing like noether!)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform smelled such that it was specifically a cause of divorce among the jews
mircea_popescu: "stench as lasting as the color" says the ancient source.
mircea_popescu: after the western world brought the benefits of democracy to the byzantines, the latter also stopped using it.
mircea_popescu: byzantium was both richer and larger than rome throughout the entire xtian period
diana_coman: the "kind" people who "won't kill" I guess; I really don't have any other explanation for that shit
mircea_popescu: they came up with a buncha pantsuitisms here ; no smoking in public, no genuine leather... can't even keep a chipmunk pet. not legally at any rate.
diana_coman: o.O what, I broke the law by wearing leather shoes and sandals??
diana_coman: asciilifeform, they have laws and rules but basically they don't really apply them , at least not in the manner you think of "apply"
diana_coman: child had a small ball and apparently there was a rule that no balls allowed in park; so before we even got to the gate, one guard was trying to convince me to hide the ball in a jacket (I had no idea wtf for, it made sense only on hindsight); at the "control" I simply said that ball stays in backpack so it's not a problem and they ..were fine with that
mircea_popescu: if they were rid of the moronic usgistani monkeys on their back, they'd be truly happy people.
mircea_popescu: imagine the reasoning of little girl, "mommy, mommy, isn't my skirt much better now, i put some mud on it"
diana_coman: asciilifeform, their contact is "tourists are american and give us lots of money" from what I can tell
diana_coman: I did hear a lot of dutch and german too,that is true; but all the dollar-prices and loads of English spoken and the baked in assumption - American, I don't know
diana_coman: it's unclear to me only if the similarity goes that far since at least in RO people *wanted* passport or afaik many americans don't see /conceive/think of the need for passport, so possible one up
diana_coman: come to think of it, maybe americans were simply so loud and rather obnoxious that they were more visible, huh; doing some counting here I remember there was even a rather large group of ...italians, lol
diana_coman: so mircea_popescu is probably right re numbers
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> I did hear a lot of dutch and german too,that is true; but all the dollar-prices and loads of English spoken and the baked in assumption - American, I don't know << Lots of Germans passed through the hostel (less than Latinos/Brasileros) they speak English because their hollywood ended in 1940s