tmsr - Log 2018-07-13

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in abominably rubbishy toolchains, the practice of 'doing the checks the compiler oughta have but author was dropped as a baby and so it doesn't', roughly.

asciilifeform: ( iirc orig 'lint' came with k&r's c compiler )

asciilifeform: or , some later ver of same.

asciilifeform: such joys, he's missing!11111

mircea_popescu: oh i see, need something to warn about missing license headers. now it all makes sense.

asciilifeform: misgenderings!

asciilifeform: misspeciesings!

ave1: trinque, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833848, working on it but this is going slowly (so not very soon) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 15:14 trinque: ave1: how far away is bit-identical build in your gcc?

ave1: btw the most recent version will only build static executables! so no support for shared anything. Does the musl / gentoo overlay depend on shared libs? (Python usually builds statically and depends for installable modules on it, etc.)

asciilifeform: ohai shinohai !

asciilifeform: shinohai: wb

asciilifeform: shinohai: i've been enjoying your www

shinohai: ah ty asciilifeform ... been busy with irl stuffs but hope to resume shortly.

asciilifeform: shinohai: issued 1st cuntoo box to pizarro customer the other day ( see l0gz )

asciilifeform: shinohai: otherwise pretty busy, currently with ffa reignition

asciilifeform: shinohai: almost ? what was the obstacle ?

shinohai: my obstacle is that erl has trouble reading some usb drives, gotta get another sandisk

asciilifeform: shinohai: iirc it has a very modest max current, you need a small/slow drive, like the vendor's original

shinohai: but it is tucked in neat beside the pogoplug, still chugging along and rsyncing blocks

asciilifeform: it is, but worx for so long as you dun write to it, lol

asciilifeform: shinohai: mine's been running ye olde freebsd, for 3yrs nao, 24/7

shinohai: oh neat. i already got a 32G sandisk with bsd working, din want to overwrite since i had no spare

asciilifeform: shinohai: prolly the best result re trb on rockchip would be with 'adult' samsung sata ssd via usb3-sata snake ( you can buy short one, that fits in box )

asciilifeform: shinohai: it is possible to buy e.g. 512G usb stick, but it is poor bang for bux proposition, it will quickly burn

asciilifeform: shinohai: trying doesn't hurt. and iirc somebody actually got a mechanical-hdd node to stay synced more or less decently with aggression patch

asciilifeform: ( currently failing to dig up in the l0gz; going from memory )

asciilifeform: rk3328-roc-cc + usb3sata snake + 1tb mech hdd -- might potentially make a working ~100bux trb node. worth a shot, shinohai , if you have a free hand.

diana_coman: asciilifeform> shinohai: trying doesn't hurt. and iirc somebody actually got a mechanical-hdd node to stay synced more or less decently with aggression patch -> yes, I did ☟︎

asciilifeform: oh hey

asciilifeform: diana_coman: didja ever post block timer readings from that node ?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: and has it stayed reliably in sync ?

diana_coman: asciilifeform, no, I didn't; and yes, it has stayed as far as I can tell (i.e. I check it daily to see if it's in sync and it has been in sync for several months now); if you have somewhere a step-by-step thing with what would be interesting to publish, I can go through it and do it but otherwise tbh I'm so swamped with other stuff that it's waaaay at the bottom of any queue

asciilifeform: aite, this is not a desperately urgent q or anyffing of the kind

diana_coman: asciilifeform, no, but it might even help at a later time; it wouldn't be wasted time at any rate

asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000256.html << for reference; the block timers.

diana_coman: i.e. noob comes, wants to run node, can point him to minimal reporting guidelines sort of thing

asciilifeform: i expect that soon n00b will be able to revv up a trb box simply by making use of trinque's builder and then 'emerge trb' or the like.

asciilifeform: ( i.e. the old 'rotor'-on-conventional-linux process will finally be obsoleted )

asciilifeform: diana_coman: reporting block r/w times currently requires pressing with the little patch that takes the times. ( it is not part of 'flagship' trb )

asciilifeform: notably , the patch started life as a general-purpose profiling of a whole buncha things in trb, but i ended up cutting out all but block timing, given as that was where something like 99% of ~active~ (i.e. as opposed to waiting for rain to fall, this was pre- aggression) cycles are spent

asciilifeform: at any rate, the block processing delay was a kind of red herring, turned out that 'wait for rain to fall' was in fact the culprit in all ( known to asciilifeform ) cases of 'trb node won't stay in sync'

asciilifeform: the longest block-processing delays i ever measured were 4-5 minutes, still well below the 10min magic mark

asciilifeform: ( on mech hdd )

asciilifeform: actually stike that, there were a few 10-15 min data points

asciilifeform: but rare.

asciilifeform: *strike

asciilifeform: ( point being, it may very well be feasible to run a reliable infrastructural trb noad on mech hdd. certainly worth test. )

asciilifeform: i suggested it specifically to shinohai because he's apparently still experimenting with trb and afaik isn't tied up with anyffing else.

asciilifeform: conceivably, even 256MB-pogo-cum-mech-hdd-cum-swap-partition-cum-aggression might work.

asciilifeform: ( admittedly a stretch )

asciilifeform: shinohai: consider taking a short at porting cuntoo to pogo, oughta be relatively simple

asciilifeform: *shot

asciilifeform bbl,meat

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834133 << probably just get sane logging in there, then can have noob paste from the respective logfile. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: iirc ben_vulpes was working on something like that prior to pizarro adventure.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he actually baked a patch, about same time as my aggression item, http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-December/000282.html

asciilifeform: afaik it doesn't auto-timestamp tho, iirc ben_vulpes , trinque , and possibly others, use linux system log to 'cheat' and get timestamps from trb

asciilifeform: aha. ( imho a Trooly sane log oughta even have separate log, for : block # / time received / time verified & written to db / from where received )

asciilifeform: the mempool crapola oughta be separate log ( even while we do not yet have mircea_popescu's mempooltron-blocktron cut )

asciilifeform: btw , while on subj, how are mircea_popescu's 'aggression' nodez doing ? i.e. stay in sync ?

asciilifeform: mine - yes, iirc mod6's also, and diana_coman's

asciilifeform: i recall at least 1 episode specifically with mircea_popescu's node, was stuck for, what , 6 wks

asciilifeform: but that was a while ago

asciilifeform: ( i vaguely suspect there exists even a 'herd immunity' of sorts, where aggressive trb helps other peers, of whatever config, stay in shape )

asciilifeform: re iptables, asciilifeform's old 'ban all aws' trick worked wonders for asciilifeform .

asciilifeform: ( a surprising % of the moar outrageous prb & quasi-forkolade derps, are stingy, parked on aws )

asciilifeform: lol! they also have shitnodes?!

mircea_popescu: they're involved in about half the efforts to make the net a shittier, slower, stinkier, buggier place.

asciilifeform: naturally. but thus far ~all google activity asciilifeform's observed is centered on port80

asciilifeform: ( formerly i banned it from phuctor, but after the db optimizations i let it live, shows up occasionally & crawls the broken keys, it dun create any particular problem to date )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: moar specifically ?

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The deal where email was a thing and then google made Gmail and ate it

asciilifeform: aa BingoBoingo , i dun expect to see a resurrection of email tho.

asciilifeform: it was eaten and digested and shat long ago.

asciilifeform: gmail was a usg victory aol et al could only dream of, if you're stuck sending email today you're more or less stuck doing it from shitmail, or watch it silently vanish somewhere on the way.

asciilifeform: ( in ~both~ directions )

asciilifeform: i have a classical email box, complete with 'squirrelmail' etc, and pretty much only one i was able to have reliable 2way traffic with, was mircea_popescu -- back when he had a similar box

mircea_popescu: anyway, tbh i can't find a use for email. if it's not a trilema-article-and-link nor a p.bvulpes-and-link then why isn't it in #trilema.

asciilifeform: the 1 remaining use case is reaching out to heathens who can't be pinged through anything else, but i haven't had any result worth half a shit with that in aeons , so that leaves just about nuffin

asciilifeform: i'm inclined to agree with mircea_popescu's item re the salvation of the drowning.

mircea_popescu: i find fetlife sluts are about 10kx more interesting than hikikomori bois a la whatever set we've been contemplating, from curtis yarvin to rms.

asciilifeform: well for starters they answer the fuckingmail, neh.

mircea_popescu: in droves. and for other starters, they got tits, and i got pliers, and if they're annoying i twist nipples.

asciilifeform: even http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833889 , is moar fun than talking to /dev/null . ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-12 15:48 mircea_popescu: aand in today's dose of manilla humour, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bEMvL/?raw=true

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tbh i'm surprised that email lived as long as it did. it was exactly 'dodo bird', 0 defenses against predation at all.

mircea_popescu: strongly relies on implicit wot enforced by "not give tards net access"

asciilifeform: aha, but somehow managed to outlive the tard flood by almost decade.

mircea_popescu: the fact that people pretended "it still works" for longer is imo one of the best points of illustration of anglotards retardation.

mircea_popescu: they have serious privacy issues, in the specific sense that the hole in the church roof bothers them a heck of a lot more than the hole in their outhouse

mircea_popescu: notwithstanding a) nobody cares about church and b) getting drizzled on while shitting is the #1 distinction between nation of africa and nation of human.

asciilifeform: word 'privacy' in application to email, was always a stretch

mircea_popescu: i just mean, because they're being groped in the privacy of their own bedroom, rather than in the publicity of the subway, they tolerate it much better.

mircea_popescu: and in the same way, pretend email is still a thing in 2010, while given up on pretense bbs is still a thing in 1995.

asciilifeform: funnily enuff, most usa zeks couldn't bbs today even if wanted to, the faux voicetel-over-fiber thing they have won't carry modem

asciilifeform: ( nor will cellpnoje )

mod6: <+asciilifeform> mine - yes, iirc mod6's also, and diana_coman's << aha, mine have been good, when the hardware has been sane. so, if I can find the time still this month, I want to add that vpatch to the main vtree @ thebitcoin.foundation

asciilifeform: tho asciilifeform was actually able to make 300 baud go , over '2g'

asciilifeform: ( at one time asciilifeform bought a number of cellmodems, of various makes , bag of 'sims', and did experiment )

asciilifeform: '2g' , notably, is being phased out in usa, in many places ( and on most of the carriers) nao impossible to make a connection at all with these

asciilifeform: ( '3g' and newer , mostly not available in inexpensive chinese modems, because they are made for civilized world, where different bands and protocol are in use )

mircea_popescu: i'm not specifically defending bbs or anything. just making the point, comparably useless/dysfunctional approaches, one lived much longer.

asciilifeform: bbs -- in so far as it represented 'can talk without necessarily going through nsa backbone in london' -- was a greater loss than email.

asciilifeform: it was, if you were calling local, you would go through 1 hop, local pbx.

asciilifeform: ( still largely 1970s iron , over here )

asciilifeform: if you have the 'latest and greatest' faux-voice-over-fiber -- then invariably.

asciilifeform: sorta why they tightened the noose on old-school copper telecom.

asciilifeform: ( it did not play well with 'put EVERYTHING through london' derpitude )

mircea_popescu: soviets had a helluva time tapping them, and all ye olde school "use phone booth" worked wunderbar.

asciilifeform: ( copper telco exchanges are still , last i knew, stuck on nixon-era 'police tap box' , writes to... tape )

asciilifeform: these are slowly getting the axe, 1 after another, most of the ( very solidly built, 2metre-thick walls etc ) exchange houses in usa, today largely empty

asciilifeform: they put a 4u cisco thing in the basement somewhere and it replaces whole thing

mircea_popescu: the zek herd has no fucking idea how to defend anything. kinda why they're not worth taking seriously.

mircea_popescu: "oh, give me reasons to" "bitch... you'll just do it and like it, stfu."

asciilifeform: jwz!!

mircea_popescu: they're exactly ready, if tomorrow i start hanging "activists" the population will just clap along. just like the last time around.

asciilifeform: afaik the 'fu, we'll make own internet, with hookers and blackjack, even if we gotta throw cables from window to window' thing had a brief life in usa, in '80s, then silently evaporated

asciilifeform: today all that remains of it , is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-15#1825757 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-06-15 16:47 asciilifeform surveyed what remains of shortwave , it's mostly empty, and what remains is largely these derps, 'texas can you hear me' 'this is utah, we can hear you' etc etc

asciilifeform: aha. 'fidonet' reportedly still exists in ru.

mod6: I'm happy to announce that The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd TRB node is fully sync'd and will be added to the list of Advertised Republican Nodeds.

asciilifeform: congrats mod6

asciilifeform: funnily related story, back when asciilifeform was a uni student, cellpnojeism was beginning to spread among plebelands, and asciilifeform noticed that folx were paying telco fiddycents/minute to talk over 1-2km ! so asciilifeform went, like naive idjit, to engineering profs, with 'p2p telephony' proposal thing, reaction was the exact sort of through-the-teeth laughter of today's bernstein re phuctor . ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'It Would Be Wrong'(tm)(r)

asciilifeform: this was asciilifeform's 'intro course' to inca/star topology/etc.

asciilifeform: nowadays they've 'progressed', happily pay not merely per minute but monthly ~lease~ on ipnoje, to talk across a street (via packets, via london, etc)

asciilifeform: at uni we had a p2p lan warez thing, that somebody cobbled together. lulzily , however, ~searching~ relied on a central point of failure, at any given time 1 or 2 particular boxes, and they would live for 2-3 months until some rat ratted'em, then cycle repeated.

asciilifeform: ( payloads were mostly pr0n , plus buncha 700MB-traditional film rips )

asciilifeform: right. but nowadays there's also bonsaikitten-students.

mircea_popescu: just saying, the "p2p protocol" as a broad construct seems pretty well fleshed out.

asciilifeform: aha. item however was an ultra-lowtech ad hoc thing, low-effort.

BingoBoingo: At uni there was a little java program called "mytunes" which turned iTunes LAN shared music (a feature only used because of the pirate thing's popularity) into a sort of anon ftp

asciilifeform: the much later, public 'p2p sharing nets' succumbed to wotlessness ( i.e. seeded with infinite fakes and crapola )

asciilifeform: they solved peer discovery, searching, etc. but not sybilism.

BingoBoingo: Well this thing failed because at somepoint everyone ended up with all the same music.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that ain't a tech failure, that's a meat failure.

BingoBoingo: There was a parallel meat/tech failure Junior year which ended it. Wifi routers were just starting to become a thing and people kept plugging the WAN cable into the wrong ports. This happened repeatedly in casacades of failure because "Internet doesn't work, port must be bad"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a good point, huh. eventually "private tracker" w/e was supposed to sorta-bandaid this

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta where state-of-the-art got stuck, to present day.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'private tracker' is really a step backwards, to the central-failure uni lan days. they live for a spell, then get killed/coopted/etc

asciilifeform: ( cuz they're, elementarily, not really 'private', they're ~allcomers typically )

asciilifeform: there is not a techno-pill against the requirement of wot, just as there is not a system of magnets and pulleys that gets you a working perpetuum mobile.

asciilifeform: ( in either case, naturally there will be found folx who keep right on trying and trying.. )

asciilifeform: 'maybe haven't found the right magnets yet!'

asciilifeform: anecdote : some time in 2004 or so, asciilifeform described , to a frustrated-with-lan-warez gurl, how proper p2p net might work, 'picture if each user only connects to folx he knows personally, and queries can hop if there's transitive trust', ~gossipd, etc , reaction : [horrified] 'omfg, like terrorist cells?! how couldyou!'

asciilifeform: incaphilia, turns out, afflicts not only elderly greybeard profs. ☟︎

asciilifeform: how's the butane fridge treating ya, BingoBoingo ? do i need to include a flammable hydrocarbon sensor in next crate ?

asciilifeform: maybe, for double lulz, it's an adiabatic (heater-driven) fridge...

BingoBoingo: The isobutane appears to be a vastly superior refrigerant compared to R134a

asciilifeform: eh they're all 'quiet and cold' when new.

asciilifeform: !#s fram

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1733947 << subj. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-11-08 02:05 asciilifeform: in related lulz, http://oldschgarage.blogspot.com/2014/11/old-fram-fridge-project.html << same fram ! i had no idea that it was an adiabatic cycle thing

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Back in old country there weren't even quiet and cold on the sales floor

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there used to be this thing, mostly in orcistans ( 1950s su, ro, elsewhere ) where starvation-cheap fridge, no compressor, but driven by heat ( typically ammonia as working fluid ) , could even run off kitchen gas

asciilifeform: err, adsorption, not adiabatic ( the latter's a different bag of crackpottery )

BingoBoingo: They remain a rural crackpot thing in USistan as well along with R-22 to propane conversions

asciilifeform: 'envirowhinerism trinity : expensive, shoddy, deadly' (tm)(r)(uncle al)

diana_coman: asciilifeform, HA, a fram exactly like that was actually IN USE at the countryside 10 years ago; for all I know it might even still work if anybody plugs it in

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i saw one at museum, in timis

asciilifeform: ( wasn't plugged in, but prolly worked, supposing the coolant is still in. 0 moving parts. )

asciilifeform: fwiw su fridges ( with compressors ) largely still work, and are prized items, healthy 2ndhand market believe or not exists

asciilifeform: we had a 1950s 'zil' that still worked in '92 when we left. ☟︎

asciilifeform: https://krsk.au.ru/10190430/ << subj. ( visually superficially like that 'fram', but 'modern', i.e. with compressor )

diana_coman: the sad part being that really, it's not *just* tech stuff that used to work for ages, it's ~everything

asciilifeform: aha !

asciilifeform: su vacuum cleaners, also prized today

asciilifeform: 100% steel, ~eternal motor, etc.

diana_coman: eh, I have some *clothes* that are older than me and look better than new stuff, what can I say

asciilifeform: i have this, also.

asciilifeform: overcoat from 1970s, etc

asciilifeform: lost atlantean tech...

asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1832119 << recent thread on subj ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-07-05 22:14 asciilifeform: and on subj, not long ago asciilifeform repaired, for relative, ancestral clock, what looked like cheap alarm clock but is actually an enlarged sov copy of ~swiss~ movement , made to 'cosmonaut' specs, believe

diana_coman: not that much; I can make such clothes just like I can still make bread by hand; but the time needed to make them....

mod6: mircea_popescu, diana_coman : Ben and I have been pouring over the numbers (as i'm getting an education here), and the prorated cost for the rest of July for UY3 will be: 0.03542985 BTC

asciilifeform: diana_coman: in principle you can make just about anyffing by hand. in practice...

asciilifeform eats bread made by-hand also.

asciilifeform: aaaha.

mod6: I'd like to remind everyone here that Pizarro still desperately needs a manager, please inquire within if you're interested.

diana_coman: mod6, BingoBoingo aren't you though in the best position to work this out?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: we have a pretty serious shortage of skilled hands.

diana_coman: mod6, ok, but this doesn't strike me like a position that you can interview for exactly just like that, you print the ad in the newspaper and interview applicants or something

asciilifeform: diana_coman: it really has to be a l1 person, and so far no takers.

diana_coman: asciilifeform, well, who exactly do you think would fit the bill anyway?

asciilifeform: phf, trinque , danielpbarron ^ ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2018/the-rivers-of-blood-article-or-the-lordship-list-fifth-year << for ref

asciilifeform: hanbot, davout ^ also

asciilifeform: iirc jurov already declined, as did mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: ( i omitted diana_coman because presumably hands full, but whoknows... diana_coman ? ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: ... lobbes ? ☟︎

asciilifeform: oh yes

asciilifeform: ... spyked ?

mod6: mircea_popescu, diana_coman : Give me a thumbs up if you believe the box is ready for you to do your testing, and I'll invoice mircea_popescu.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: also then signal BingoBoingo to remove the kvm cables, the kvm box is in no real sense secure , having it plugged in for extended time is a small but definite liability