BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: A is powered up as are the fans. Added a few more 5v ports
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Drive for C placed in dulap as well
mod6: workin' on the pizarro stuff here...
mircea_popescu: in other not really news, there's something very pretty about a slavegirl examining her welts in disbelief.
mod6: i know what that's like
mircea_popescu: nah, there;s this special plastic thing, leaves these... love kisses, let's call them.
mircea_popescu: especially made for hurting girls, really. gets say the oh-so-delicate inner thigh to perfection.
mod6: oh yeah, lot of nerve endings there. that smarts.
mod6: hippos in these parts just disgust me
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 18:47 asciilifeform: i've found that i personally think palpably smoother when on balcony, in sunlight. but atm can only do this with printouts..
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 18:53 Mocky: imo current eink refresh rate wants applications that have slightly different display semantics than what we have today which is based on 'full screen refresh has no cost'
mircea_popescu: then a) no moar unicode and b) full screen update ~costless.
mircea_popescu: ro generic is "bici", whip. cnut is specifically weighted item
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 18:53 mod6: are there any colors on ink-screen?
mircea_popescu: if we ever end up doing our own network, i utterly want this patched out.
mod6: Don'tcha remember mod6's irssi?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 18:58 asciilifeform: but i currently suspect that this is 1 of those 'only asciilifeform wants' items, and hence won't exist any time soon.
mircea_popescu: yes but i don't have problems with the elements at my desk.
mircea_popescu: i can also position girls with palm leaves on balcony, or just mere tits. but we'll skip this.
mod6: the spines on the palm leaves tho, ouch
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 19:04 asciilifeform: aside from sunlight, the other win from 'eink', mod6 , is that it draws 0 current when not drawing.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 19:07 asciilifeform: phf: wouldja program on a 3" screen ?!
mod6: i don't know how the fuck they did that shit. my girl could do it blind
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 19:19 phf: there's probably an upper bound of availability of thinking man's technology, kind of like strugatsky's "za milliard let do konca sveta". once you start hitting those limits suddenly "my baby is in hospitals these days" etc.
mircea_popescu: so you know, "usa is the powerfulest thing ever" "reheheally" / "oh, #metoo matters" "where ?" and so on ad infinitum.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "we are the premiere science and technology nothingatall in teh world!" "then how come the world series is always in fucking iowa"
mircea_popescu: exactly! i agree, this is the icon of the problem. lithium batteries, everywhere. precisely-so.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 19:21 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Rockchip package in hand
mod6: I'll get to ya in like a week or so.
mod6: well, as soon as I get this report done.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 20:01 mod6: holy shit, they packed a cookie in there after they opened the bag?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> nice. << New drive cases transfer substantially more heat, have much more mass, surface area, etc
mircea_popescu: kinda what the whole thing is all about ; moat made of earned knowledge and so on.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: photo grabbed, will upload when I return to coffee pot. Juggling enough memory devices as is
BingoBoingo: Could be done, but not while fitting another drive in dulap
BingoBoingo: Can reach, no need to power down to do this. Can't really power down safely at the A/C feed either. Individual lines are all D/C
BingoBoingo: Aite, pulling out. Still ping when it finishes. Will prolly be up a while tonight.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: oh nice, gonna put them heat-sinks on top and bottom 'eh?
BingoBoingo: Right, second heatsinks going on when they make it into the RockChips
mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Session keep alive packet not recieved: BingoBoingo to sleep
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 06:54 mircea_popescu: i never heard of obesity miscarriage before.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 21:14 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , let BingoBoingo & asciilifeform know when is good day to take down yer units and copy contents to new drives.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 01:45 asciilifeform: btw lobbes in case you care, it's almost all apache error log...
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 21:17 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , also give signal re whether you want the newer iptables-enabled kernel to go on your boot sd , when we take the boxen down ( iirc we already did mod6's )
diana_coman: the thing is though that at any rate, it won't get the same type of use as it did as main disk so I don't know whether much can be found out from that really
ben_vulpes: those reluctant to diddle /etc/hosts without seeing signed material first may: curl --header 'Host: cascadianhacker.com' 216.151.13.77/dns_update.txt
diana_coman: I suspect there might be more to find out from dissection of the thing
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: Sent 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> lobbes's drive ready to plug
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 03:10 mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
mod6: ben_vulpes: I am shutting down 'lovelace' (the second tbf node) now.
mod6: I have also pulled '216.151.13.78' off of the Advertised Node list.
mod6: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is bringing this with him to texas. He said he'd be able to have it up and running in a rack down there by mid-November.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 20:37 asciilifeform: yea i can't picture for what might need variable masses in production
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the item originally for gossipd experimentations. udp gives a max practical packet length ( what it is , remains to be determined ) and if given proggy's protocol needs variably-sized ones, you can pad with rng.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, clients pay for traffic though so dunno
diana_coman: it's not the isp, lol; it's eulora-internal because client can choose how much traffic it generates
diana_coman: but if you force it to pad everything to maxlen it's a bit iffy
diana_coman: every time they simply ask for an object you force them to send over 2048 bytes, ugh
diana_coman: there IS some padding, i.e. it's not entirely arbitrary lengths, no
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, cool; well, it's been 4 months being digested hopefully by everyone around so evolution makes sense!
mircea_popescu: so far, productive activity, but only made it up to 3.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it certainly makes the code simpler! if only I could always choose by this criteria though...
mircea_popescu: anyway, re "client pays for traffic" -- yes, but message traffic not packet traffic.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, serpent payloads really; rsa is meant for single use when registering with server pretty much
mircea_popescu: padding wouldn't cost in principle, except if crypto produced then entropy costs.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, the above wasn't clear until now, it's clarified ...now
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because the largest packet we ~need~ is 16kb
mircea_popescu: and forcing all packets 16kb may lose us on some routes.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:12 asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage'
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:57 asciilifeform: imho if you want large messages, oughta have own fragger/reasmer, not the ??? in linux/ciscolade
mircea_popescu: 1. server must be able to acquire RSA key of client. 2. the rsa key of client will have to go in a rsa message, because they presumably don't have serpent keys agreed upon ; 3. the payload for one chunk of rsa key is 1960 bytes, fixed ; 4. the size of a key is 3.x such 1960 byte chunks, meaning 4 chunks. 5. the size of a 4 payload message is 16kb.
mircea_popescu: 6. if you pertmit this 16kb item be chunked, you basically rebuild the tcp ddos bs long discussed here. if it has to be in 1 piece, you can always use or discard on sight.
mircea_popescu: now, if it also has 1 single size, that means the size of all packets is 16kb
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevermind that. to re-asm you gotta keep chunks.
mircea_popescu: doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, but what's the problem with that? client sends and waits (for as long as it wants) for a reply; whenever it has enough of waiting...sends again; until it makes it
mircea_popescu: this must-have magical packet of 16kb is extremely rare -- basically only sent when new client making new account.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: meanwhile if every single 13 byte posupdate takes 16kb... that's insanity.
mod6: ben_vulpes: bitcoind has been stopped, and lovelace has been shutdown with `shutdown -h now`. Feel free to pack it up whenever you're ready. Thanks.
mircea_popescu: my problem is that i can't ~not~ have 2 sizes of udp packets.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the attacker sends you sequence-1 packets. and you hold them. and as i said, "doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks."
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i am not so interested in holding on to chunks of future.
mircea_popescu: looky, we're discontinuing this discussion, because you've not taken the time to familiarize with priors and i don't judge it's worth your time to do so, or mine to make you do so.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 14:30 mircea_popescu: this must-have magical packet of 16kb is extremely rare -- basically only sent when new client making new account.
mircea_popescu: see ? it's not that i hate you, but we gotta talk of the same things to talk to any sort of productive end.
mircea_popescu: here's the bojum with that : soner or later, you gotta meet new people. the DEFINITION of "new people" is "no way to secret prior". so...
mircea_popescu: server as it stands now doesn't talk to any new people, hence the "talk to mp" thing in client.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem degrades gracefully : even if you do have shared rsa key, client sometimes wants to send serpent keys (which go to rsa) and some other times wants to send plain cruft (goes to serpent). so two sizes again
mircea_popescu: i can't have as many interfaces as packet types for crying out loud.
mircea_popescu: well, rsa packets are 4096 bits multiple ; serpent packets are multiples of 128. rsa key exchange is 16kb fix.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 05:07 Mocky:
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855218 >> players in sight of each other, all getting position updates for all others is *THE* central scaling 'n squared problem' for mmo. 20 byte position sent 4 times per second to 100 players is 8k/s per player. and 4 updates per second is really not enough for good playability when you factor in the round trip lag. 15/s is less draconian (many games send 30-60). 100 players gathered with 15 updates
Mocky: if you accept 16k new-acct packets seems just as easy to
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857229 but further, if you rely on external frag-reassm it's even easier for attacker to prevent you from accepting *any* new account packets
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 14:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the attacker sends you sequence-1 packets. and you hold them. and as i said, "doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks."
Mocky: frag reassembly in-program can use a buffer of specified size, just as is done externally. so excess chunk memory overhead is known up front
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 14:53 asciilifeform: this is that 'bit-packing variables' thing all over again.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:27 mircea_popescu: what it is is certainly <1kb say. wasting the occasional portion of a kb is not so unlike wasting the occasional portion of a 64 bit register to represent a boolean value.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-22 23:03 mircea_popescu: it's bullshit all the way down, "the 4096 bit block gets cut into 16 sub blocks to be fit into rotorizers that cut each block into 64 bits and process with their 4 bit s boxes". because we're from the fucking cartoons.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 20:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform typical pc has the following situation : 64 bit registers, 128 bit memory, 1024 bit disk sectors, 64 mb video buffers, and atop sitting a drunk driver who thinks 8 bits are a byte.
mircea_popescu: there's more, somewhere i say "meanwhile people figured out the complexity's not worth the saving" and etc. recurrent topic.
diana_coman: Mocky, if I get this right you argue that it's better to do frag internally because can't trust externally to not fuck up the line entirely as attack vector?
Mocky: e.g. attacker floods with packet frags prevents legitimate frags from ever being reassembled, instead silently dropped, server is none the wiser
diana_coman: he is talking of the new rsa packets that are biggest
Mocky: 16k packet -> 1500 MTU
diana_coman: but honestly I don't see that to be such a huge problem
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm, they made it through - presumably fragged though?
mircea_popescu: ie, mtu is two things : no smaller frame shall issue from interface ; and larger packets MAY (but don't have to) travel as multiple frames.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman well, possibly. iirc we didn't specifically check for that.
diana_coman: precisely; I think that in principle there is a possibility of that "attack" but I fail to see that it's worth much really
diana_coman: so basically what, for as long as attacker can keep flooding , presumably no new accounts although there might still be some that make it through?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so interface silently and timely reassembled 50kb packet out of 30 fragments ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, i have no intention to deal with udp flood at gameserver level.
☟︎ Mocky: I'd expect frag and auto reassemble to work well in low volume conditions
mircea_popescu: of course... if we used smaller rsa keys we could fit in the mtu...
mircea_popescu: i mean, really, 2048, not 1460 ? written in heavens or what ?
mircea_popescu: suppose i make the rsa packet 1498 bytes. this then means 2996 bit rsa. problem ?
Mocky: well including udp header, like 1470 to 1480 of payload available
diana_coman: from a practical point of view it does mean that Eulora doesn't use directly TMSR RSA keys though
mircea_popescu: im not sure anyone'd want to use his main key for this anyway
mircea_popescu: but yes, as far as anyone knows 2048 bit keys perfectly safe, now and for the foreseable future (this isn't a comment on koch faux-pgp, which unsafe at any length as well documented in logs qntra and so on).
diana_coman: yes; anyway it's basically a knob to turn, not a big issue in itself
mircea_popescu: i'm going to re-write the rewrite of comms protocol with this new paradigm.
mircea_popescu: let's calculate this precisely. so what size is my actual payload here, 1468 reliably ?
mircea_popescu: ( and btw diana_coman it's entirely possible this will mean republic might well inherit the format, seeing how the problem we are dealing with isn't of our own make -- others will run into it too.)
mircea_popescu: am i absurd in wanting to start from 1499 rather than 1500 ?
mircea_popescu: alright then, ima put 1472 bytes helo packet ; meaning 2944 bit rsa keys.
Mocky: 1472 is what i've used in the past
mircea_popescu: diana_coman 2944 bit rsa keys, meaning 1384 bit usable message space in the rsa packet ? with oaep and everything ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 15:50 mircea_popescu: anyway, i have no intention to deal with udp flood at gameserver level.
mircea_popescu: rsa-size and serpent-size packets handled, rest discarded (and sources punished)
Mocky: ok but if size matches still have to attempt decryption even if contains garbage?
mircea_popescu: the thing is -- new accounts handled "as resources permit" anyway, so...
mircea_popescu: ok, so this back of a digital envelope seems to suggest we want : 1. fixed size 1470 byte rsa packets, made to work with 3920-bit rsa (of which i presume the useful message size to be 1872 bit, diana_coman plox to confirm maffs ?). such a packet has then 1696 bits spare for e and bullshit.
☟︎ diana_coman: mircea_popescu, 1872 useful bits in 3920-bit rsa, confirmed
mircea_popescu: in other very sads, the new p.bvulpes machine is VERY fucking slow.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah, no need, by now i mostly suspect my route was bad.
deedbot: nicoleci voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile @birdcage, "<nicoleci> im getting so frusterated with these logs <mircea_popescu> yssat ? <nicoleci> i understand every 45th line"
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 16:21 asciilifeform: and i'ma never recommend to anyone the use of heathen 'rsa chips'. not even because they all, without exception, work with only 'toy' key lengths, but because srsly wtf.
lobbesbot: nicoleci: Sent 16 hours and 5 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> s/to/too
mircea_popescu: nicoleci rsa keys are useless when the key is short. do you understand how rsa works ?
mircea_popescu: alright. can you tell me the prime factors of the number 6 ?
mircea_popescu: now, can you tell me the non-trivial prime factors of 221 ? (but without looking anywhere online).
mircea_popescu: right. this is then the rsa problem : it is relatively easy to multiply prime numbers ; it is exceedingly difficult to get them back out of the multiplicated soup
mircea_popescu: this is especially true the larger the prime numbers become. rsa uses this disparity to produce an undefeatable encryptio scheme. the two prime factors (13, 17) are the private (ie, secret) key. their product (221) is the public key.
mircea_popescu: some clever bits of math permit one to encrypt a message with the use of that 221 so that only he who knows 13 * 17 =221 can ever get it back out.
BingoBoingo: Ah, slave priviledge in action. Countless ninjashoguns weep as the combination of right behavior and right parts allows the priviledged to learn in hallowed logs.
nicoleci: yeah thanks, Master. privilege in knowledge, torture in a chromebook
mircea_popescu: the 1 in 6 far exceeds the 1 in 20 or so females worth the fucking in ~anyone's estimation.
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile from other mines: "I’m active in supporting LGBT causes. My boyfriend recently said that “this whole LGBT thing has gone way too far” and that he’s no longer sure what to think about same-sex marriage, even though he had thought he supported it. Worse, he said that maybe the original civil rights movement went too far, and perhaps businesses should be allowed to racially discriminate if they want to. In fairnes
☟︎ BingoBoingo: s, that was in response to me pointing to that as a precedent for LGBT rights, but I’m not sure that makes it better. I’m just aghast. How can I make him see how wrong he is?"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo doh. let's check back with the aghast lonely hearts club when we're discussing how business can keep slaves (ie, them) if they feel like it.
mircea_popescu: im really only using it as an adhoc crc ; possibly should either get rid of it altogether, or implement a proper ec.
mircea_popescu: in ~principle~ eve can't even know what serpent keys either server or client are using.
mircea_popescu: anyways, i shall now torture girls @ beach. will read all comments and everything tonite.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, keccak can spit out as many or as few bits as you want it to, not sure what is you q there re keccak
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 18:17 mircea_popescu: ok. 1 and 6 we ignore, as they're trivial for our exercise.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 18:53 diana_coman: asciilifeform, keccak can spit out as many or as few bits as you want it to, not sure what is you q there re keccak
diana_coman: asciilifeform, int8 is indeed meant to be on 8 bits so no idea what that thing there is ; fwiw I added it to my comment on the article with ref to your q here in the logs too because I'm puzzled by it too
diana_coman: re collision yes, it's clearly not collision-resistant
diana_coman: the eucrypt keccak implementation uses an out parameter for output and so it will fill whatever the caller provides
ben_vulpes: sad fate to be remembered for failing to take out agents of the imperium given ~unlimited time and inclination to prepare.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: the many sleepless nights of the rural amphet didn't help.
BingoBoingo: Sure. Its the sort of thing you'd stick in a lobby to let people check the weather.
BingoBoingo: The big difference between Haiku and ReactOS is in Haiku spreading works (TM)(R). Reactos hasn't made it that far yet.
BingoBoingo: Well, it isn't novelty for the sake of novelty. Novelty for the sake of highlighting how broken Ubuntu is.
BingoBoingo: This piece of weird with all of its flaws... still works better than Ubuntu
trinque: huh, I ran one of the early x86 Be versions for a bit, didn't hate.
trinque: but yes, can't disagree with asciilifeform
BingoBoingo: It ran openbsd fine, runs a linux fine now, FreeBSD was flakey last time I tried it on this one
BingoBoingo: Well, Uncle Terry is the Saint everyone thought Linus was
BingoBoingo: Terry didn't let his daughter's feelz get in the way of his cause
☟︎ BingoBoingo curious if gabriel ever got that amputation
BingoBoingo: It doesn't appear to be at the moment, but it could have been
BingoBoingo: It's also possible there's another trb node I haven't put my own eyes on running on a residential connection in this country
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Have an eta on when to do the diana_coman switch?