mircea_popescu: anyway. the concept of "nothing to allcomers" logically extends to property on one hand ; the notion of holding property outside of a proper signature is utterly nonsensical on the other hand. however you look at things, a reversal of "progressive" innovation in legal matters is unavoidable.
mircea_popescu: it's not just "the right to vote" that goes away upon review and limitation of the franchise. derps simply can't hold property, whether they be "the government of the united states" or "jane doe".
mircea_popescu: mno. conversion, such as through theft, or mere possession, give no title in either law or equity.
mircea_popescu: in general title, and the concept of law, is an instrument of monarchy directed against the peerage.
mircea_popescu: ie, "we don't need lords - here's robotic replacement our bureaucrats devised"
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, a comprehensive counter-imperial offensive will include measures meaningful to it, in its own terms.
mircea_popescu: de-titling of the kulaks, as it were. nobody may hold title to any property, nor be entitled to equitable redress of any claim, unless they are a person, as this is defined.
mircea_popescu: in short, to codify years of extand practice, the "how to participate in the affairs" actually has a lot of bite. one who isn't a citizen has no rights. his complaints have no standing, whatever their content ; and no redress is available.
phf: i think are behind the "Killer" brand
mircea_popescu: 3com ; nvidia apparently makes them too ; something called marvell
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently most usb dongles use something called asix for a chipset
mircea_popescu: there's also adm8515 from "davicom" apparently still in production
mircea_popescu: yeah. and i meant, "probably a realtek clone made in south korea".
mircea_popescu: "independents" all appear to be varying degrees of "serials filed off" ; mostly realtek's
phf: meaning they print in china?
ben_vulpes: > elegant, object-oriented open source framework
ben_vulpes: > written in C using GObject and libsoup
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, phf: i'm giving up on variable length binary-types for now. my personal pons asinorum for this library is the task of defining either a type or a class whose value could be either u8, u16, u32 or u64, plus the headaches of entirely arbitrary-length scripts.
ben_vulpes: worked swimmingly for the headers, though!
mircea_popescu: incidentally Framedragger , how about a survey of response to intel's magic byte ?
mircea_popescu: you have a reasonably fresh list of respondent boxes, feed them 0x32 at offset 0x47f then poll in 5 and 500 seconds see if they're up.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: one of those "not going to find anything" things that experience shows would make a fine first article on your putative blog.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: absolutely - will do! though, those 22mil boxes have ssh running on them; there's prob a semi-quick way to get a broader "is it generally online" list, too. but, gotta start somewhere
Framedragger: i'll prolly do this and make use of vc's cockbox. his /dev/null attitude to abuuuuze complaints is appreciated.
Framedragger: hmm, gotta script this carefully. prolly not gonna be today. but will try and do this.
Framedragger: (i mean, polling and re-polling later to check status etc)
mircea_popescu: by now it's a 5 year old thing, if they were gonna do something about it they've had done by now.
☟︎ Framedragger: actually, half the time you're probably speaking to an overcaffeinated framedragger
Framedragger: yeah for a sec i thought this was new. but totally should be done
mircea_popescu: the deep point here being that this is a fundamental property of usgian "ghidusii" : the long tail of straggling losers.
Framedragger: would be great to have a nosuchlabs observatory lab, with results exposed over sql or w/e, as discussed
Framedragger: but i guess that's what's effectively happening anyway :)
Framedragger: btw regarding "there is no sane NIC out there" problem and appreciating the fact that designing a whole proper NIC may not be an efficient effort ("ip stack should be eventually abandoned", lots of work, economies of scale at work in semiconductor production, whatnot), i wonder why asciilifeform hasn't considered investing time not in seeking a sane nic, but rather designing / using a sane transport protocol via *radio* (i don't mean shi
Framedragger: tty wifi dongles, but rather long distance shortwaves, etc.)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in principle we could have a tmsr radio station. even makes for excellent call sign, TMSR.
mircea_popescu: however, costs money to operate hardware. what's the rush.
Framedragger: it'd be so much fun and would be super educational!
Framedragger: i mean ideally, it'd be a p2p radio station network. antenna + dongle + stuff can be real cheap.
Framedragger: shortwaves bounce around the ionosphere and all that
mircea_popescu: it is on the list, but first gotta have better geographic density of republican lords.
mircea_popescu: not that you can't just go ahead and proof it, if you want to.
Framedragger: that's the thing, i wonder if a few points around the globe wouldn't be enough, in principle!
Framedragger: that's the way it works, i guess. talk is easy
mircea_popescu: in short : it wouldn't be wasted work, we'll certainly use it later ; it's not yet scheduled, but the scheduler isn't blocking in this sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform depends how much it costs. in any case, there's a relationship between required-density and square-of-radius.
Framedragger: but all those radio amateurs happily listening to each other's callsigns around the globe - they don't have powerful stations do they?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: no disagreement, hence the tone (happily masturbating each other, they are). point was, they're able to listen to each other rather easily
mircea_popescu: in any case : 1 mb blocks, 10 minute blocks, you therefore must have no less than
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1 * 2 ** 20 / 10 / 60 * 2 = 3495.2533333333336
Framedragger: 10kbps, imho, would be *fine* for the beginning. enough for lighthoused PoC if there were to appear one later, enough to sync state, exchange keys, etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ~nobody gives a shit about "there in usa". move.
Framedragger: (i know that ideal lighthoused would have much higher throughput.)
Framedragger: yeah i wouldn't transmit encrypted shortwaves from usa, that indeed sounds like doom
mircea_popescu: Framedragger sure ; even noncompliant channels may have their uses. but still, in general you want to aim for a 30 kbps minimum.
Framedragger: i mean personally, to be able to exchange pgp-signed sha512 hashes would make me super happy already - maybe premature ejaculation, yes, but it'd be a *useful facility*.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, this suggests an extremely cheap way to fuck with the empire. produce mini board that outputs salt-hashed counter nonce, rsa and emit it.
mircea_popescu: power the thing off battery, dump a bunch around people's houses.
mircea_popescu: let them "guide the gasenwagen" at $100k to $20mn per guidance, untill they fall over.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. they don't care ; it's you that have mental issues.
PeterL: did we already do thread "transmit from drone flying overhead"?
mircea_popescu: by now it should be pretty self-evident, to you too. the moment one of these preconceived things gets out the mouth and then starts shapeshifting for dear life in conversation, you got an example.
Framedragger: i still don't understand why the hell you need them 100kW
PeterL: drone carrying nuclear reactor ... pretty cool sci-fi
mircea_popescu: are there any stations even left that do 100kw in soviet us ?
Framedragger: you don't need to cover the whole damn globe (ionosphere bounces notwithstanding). it's just a *node*
a111: Logged on 2016-09-22 12:33 Framedragger: tty wifi dongles, but rather long distance shortwaves, etc.)
mircea_popescu: desperately needs it to be 100k because protecting some other unexamined notions this way!
Framedragger: "rather long distance" does not imply 100 kW afaik?
Framedragger: (consider a true radio relay, by which i mean a relay which sends, receives, and *passes on* messages received from one end to the other)
mircea_popescu: something like that. except for the exact definition of short.
mircea_popescu has personally seen 10W station owner with postcards from fucking australia
mircea_popescu: yes, but lottery works for you when you got a lot of them.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: and those will of course not have much bandwidth capacity. but i maintain that to usefully PoC the thing, you don't need much at all. jeebus, having a radio-based key server would be amazing already
mircea_popescu: ie, if you have 10k 10w stations rather than 100kw one, you will, if sanely handling errors, get a better channel from cluj to melbourne.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger this whole convo keeps popping up ; nobody's seriously against it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, because geodispersed. most of the time, sqrt n etc
mircea_popescu: and i do recall it ; which proves that they aren't eh ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: so that's the thing, maybe prototyping gossipd designs over usual packet-switched internet is not even worth it?
mircea_popescu: ah also : re "encryption" : we CAN use the eliza involved in gossipd spec (anyone actually did this or just some quick napkin work and then forgot about ?) to eliza the actual emissions.
mircea_popescu: markov chains can be used for the purpose of symmetrically "encrypting" ; make every byte a different word, it will be "plaintext"
mircea_popescu: as a sort of steganography. who the hell is going to prove that radio chatter is "not really what it seems"
PeterL: mircea_popescu at one point I demonstrated a script to do that, asciilifeform scoffed at it as useless
mircea_popescu: and the alf "useless" signal can be safely ignored. he's decided to shit in own mouth, what can you do.
mircea_popescu: you say useless all the time for absolutely no reason ; and had a year's + worth of warning. too late to appeal this.
mircea_popescu: do not say it anymore ; or do. for all the difference it makes, you can pick either.
Framedragger: i'd risk getting a visit from the spooks here, honestly been interested in viability of low bitrate (plain-encrypted, in my mind) radio exchange for a whole.
Framedragger: myeah, i know. but i also think it's only a matter of degree of effort: if i'm not important enough in their eyes, i'll be fine. if on the other hand i am, then they'll find a way to link me to station and will pay a visit. a.k.a. binary "are you important?" security model.
PeterL: oh, yeah, I think it just lapsed
mircea_popescu: that's the problem here - ideas are exciting, but for lack of practice western man has all but lost any knowledge of the actual excitement of actually doing things.
mircea_popescu: the curse of this language space is that pretty much everything degrades by degrees into this wordy masturbation where people get excited over ideas then agree they can't be done then move on to the next.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: silently and immediately because folks will notice if not, and you'll become a point of interst?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: the sad part is that by "battling out" ideas in this wordspace, one gets a bit of serotonin rush, to feel *as if* they have actually done something material. i know i get this, at least. evolutionary side-effect, this whole "curiosity -> completion" gap used to be much larger, not it short-circuits easily. it sucks, need to make conscious effort to resist sinking into nihilistic bliss, i think. </rant>
mircea_popescu: the only sane way to look at it is over BingoBoingo 's mayo-enabler pair.
mircea_popescu: the fundamental point of reddit & co, and the main reason to avoid them, is that they format people into this specific mode,
mircea_popescu: where they take turns to play the obese and the enabler for each other.
mircea_popescu: it's very much a destructive psychiatric condition ; harmful for self, harmful for others. smoke and don't do this, rather than don't smoke and do it.
mircea_popescu: ballas' celebrated "so you feel strongly about something, strong enough to not do anything" is just as much a statement. there's no lack of observation, it's just that piggy likes his truffle.
Framedragger: mmm. i2c interface, etc. yeah. this is a very neat useful thing.
Framedragger: may as well put a power source on it, even a solar cell, and leave in coffee shop for anon wifi, heh.
Framedragger: need to minimize energy expenditure at $job. "go home tired" sort of case, it's sad. i'd like to, e.g., among other matters (incl mkj log etc of course), write a very initial very to-be-criticized gossipd for udp/ip, using (kill me now) python twisted. i guess many live like this, savouring free time, with personal projects falling behind. [i rant today, because exhaustion + coffee infusion => wee bit psychedelic]
a111: Logged on 2016-09-22 12:28 mircea_popescu: by now it's a 5 year old thing, if they were gonna do something about it they've had done by now.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-22 12:20 mircea_popescu: you have a reasonably fresh list of respondent boxes, feed them 0x32 at offset 0x47f then poll in 5 and 500 seconds see if they're up.
mircea_popescu: word ; i was thinking of proposing exactly this but then i got distracted.
mircea_popescu: the companion to Framedragger 's exploration to be done at home is evidently - there's only 3 chips, right ? get a realtek, an intel and a broad and fuzz them
thestringpuller: "The main cost in the initial synchronization is disk I/O when seeking for transactions in the blockchain. Default cache size (dbcache) is 100MB, and it is too low. I always set it manually depending on the amount of RAM in the system (5GB for dbcache on a 8GB system)." << re: discussions of using SSDs on initial sync.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ideally you want to do it all in ram and dump to disk 2gb at a time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tru, but dollars to donuts they didn't change the magic for each chip.
mircea_popescu: either because lazydumb or because afraid someone might microscope/probe the things and find it.
mircea_popescu: somewhat less conclusive, but more expensive. still, it may turn out very interesting
deedbot: andr1976 voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: YAgi's are cheap and easy to make would that work ?
Framedragger: nice. what of DoS via replay, asciilifeform ? or should this get ignored? i.e. enemy just floods with identical packets (so both checksum and sig ok), and those get redistributed
Framedragger: indeed, indeed. and yet incorporating a lighthouse lifts the scheme from pure elegance to additional complexity. but maybe that's not to be avoided, and such is life
Framedragger: asciilifeform: buffer is a rolling window (or how do you call it), i.e. last N messages? hmm
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i wonder, could this not be predicted by the enemy? (value of nonce - say the enemy is aware of the (likely) packets received by the receiving end.) i'm not sure, just trying out all possibilities in the head, because otherwise sounds nice
deedbot: burnsd03 voiced for 30 minutes.
shinohai: burnsd03: this is the chan where you register your key
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, right, i forgot everything's signed, lol. nice! i guess enemy could replay for a (choosably) small window of time, some degree of flooding possible? but this could be minimized and that's the point, right?
Framedragger: same exact packet - he would assume the nonce in packet refers to a packet that is still in the receiver's buffer
Framedragger: maybe i'm not getting the picture how quickly entries in the buffer can expire, though
burnsd03: !!register E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7
deedbot: Import failed for E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7.
burnsd03: !!register E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7
burnsd03: !!register E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7
burnsd03: !!register E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7
deedbot: Import failed for E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7.
deedbot: Import failed for E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7.
deedbot: Import failed for E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: you mean an initial packet after a period of silence? hm yeah; one way would be to have a scheme in place which i think you may have suggested anyway: to have stations constantly stream packets at some rate, 24/7.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-22 14:46 asciilifeform: you have a nonce in the packet, and the packet only registers as valid when said nonce is equal to hash of some packet that is in the receiver's current buffer.
PeterL: not sure if that makes sense with what asciilifeform was talking about?
deedbot: burnsd03 voiced for 30 minutes.
burnsd03: mircea_popescu could you please make me an account? Just following the quick-start guide :)
burnsd03: !!register E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7
deedbot: E968199C0F1D12E52B9BDB1C8456B3450E01C0F7 registered as burnsd03.
PeterL: hi burnsd03, who are you? name makes me think of burnside, wasn't that the btctc guy?
shinohai: Exactly who I thought of PeterL lol
shinohai: Let's hope not, unless you like scams too.
burnsd03: nope, i stay clear of hyips etc
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: PeterL: ah, good point. and regarding first packet, i wonder if some very light lighthouse version would make sense, a pre-shared sequence of whitelisted nonces between two given nodes, whatnot. in the beginning, interchangeable over internet. and later, updateable over same radio channel ("here's my payload, and also please add to your whitenoncelist this encrypted sequence of nonces for future channel initiations.")
shinohai: neat asciilifeform ... I haven't sourced one of the others yet :/
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, so 'private key' is purely 'station key' - i guess like in latest gossipd discussion
PeterL: could relay messages from one gossipd node to another
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> are there any stations even left that do 100kw in soviet us ? << 50kw is the cap and requires "clear channel" Daytime range of such power not too impressive
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: this isn't any old d00d, either, his b00k is excellent << Hence why very newsworthy. Raises your esteem and that of republic. Harder for a certain sort to ignore than Phuctor.
BingoBoingo: Maybe only a dozen people in actual field, but people likely worth having the esteem of.
BingoBoingo: Right, but the weidos were actually doing something. For that actual field of a dozen there's prolly a fandom of hundreds to thousands because less capable weirdos.
BingoBoingo: nfi about fandom's value here either, but the people doing things worth esteeming with. Attraction rather than promotion as PR strategy.
trinque: asciilifeform: my gizmo 1 gets here tomorrow.
shinohai: To fawn over you incessantly of course asciilifeform
trinque: will take pictures of the kit and write it up
deedbot: veter2601 voiced for 30 minutes.
mats: fella in the field once told me a modern car's center console has 6+ microprocessors, 4+ with radio interfaces (the strictly on-board ones, not counting external stuff like TPMS)
a111: Logged on 2015-05-03 03:48 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: someone decided to use a microcontroller. quite possibly because 29 cents instead of 30 for a '555'.
veter2601: Tell me how I can (Earn 0.01 BTC (one bitcent) per two hours doing computer stuff.) pls
shinohai: asciilifeform: when the tardstalk people come in, just have them msg me or something and I'll point them to the guides
shinohai: They have to come here to register keyz, deedbot isn't in #eulora chan
trinque: I don't see a problem with people coming to the forum to announce their existence as a person.
trinque: or at least a potential person.
shinohai: I mean I usually just don't voice them until they actually produce a key.
trinque: not that I'm opposed to parking an instance in #eulora
phf: what an odd angle, "he lied in order to steal these things", duh, no shit
trinque: if he had any Real Honor he'd come have his ass perforated in a federal CMU
phf: is this like the cry of every school yard loser, "he wasn't fighting fair"
mats: there are lots of folks that still believe snowden didn't act under orders
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [14:31:38] <asciilifeform> 1) every old lappy comes with a high-quality DAC fit for shortwave! the vga card.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: could prolly make 100W emitter strictly out of 200 bucks worth of old lappy +/- old car battery.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [15:31:23] <BingoBoingo> <mircea_popescu> are there any stations even left that do 100kw in soviet us ? << 50kw is the cap and requires "clear channel" Daytime range of such power not too impressive
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [15:54:05] <trinque> will take pictures of the kit and write it up
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [16:08:42] <asciilifeform> ocsp" build time option are not affected. Servers using OpenSSL versions prior to 1.0.1g are not vulnerable in a default configuration, instead only if an application explicitly enables OCSP stapling support.'
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [15:31:23] <BingoBoingo> <mircea_popescu> are there any stations even left that do 100kw in soviet us ? << 50kw is the cap and requires "clear channel" Daytime range of such power not too impressive
mircea_popescu: on current tech sweet spot seems to be somewhere in the 1 to 10 W ; which is how and why wifi is even a thing ; and which drives the question that wouldn't it be much better to just use wifi instead ?
mircea_popescu: moreover, at 10 bux an item, if you end up with sqrt (distance) items to cover a distance expressed in 10 meter increments, you're looking at what, 150bucks per km of comms. this is way the fuck cheaper than laying wires ; and works on all terrain etc.
mircea_popescu: sure. but there's a sweetspot for the wifi, where they're impossible to find from a distance. that same pollution also protects them.
mircea_popescu: " Andrew Sullivan, chair of the Internet Architecture Board, a group that oversees organisations involved in the evolution of the internet" << there's a gavin everywhere!
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [17:03:40] <shinohai> They have to come here to register keyz, deedbot isn't in #eulora chan
mircea_popescu: but honestly, a little bit of exposure can't hurt anything.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160922/#567 << the usg bureaucracy is very much dumb-woman-from-montana as depicted by frances mcdormand in fargo. there's this list of formal sins that's all they comprehend and consequently serve as their only interface wioth the world. "said nigger" "didn't eat veggies" "doesn't recycle" "cheated on spouse" etc.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [17:11:17] <phf> what an odd angle, "he lied in order to steal these things", duh, no shit
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [17:21:35] <mats> there are lots of folks that still believe snowden didn't act under orders
mircea_popescu: experientia docent ; de raadt pre bob beck and post bob beck very much different animals also. list can continue.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude had very little operational foresight, ability or competence.
mircea_popescu: in no small part the point of even having a republic is that the next snowden does a much better job. and having the occasional noob show up in here to work the bots is part and parcel of this same.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, this is the sort of determination that only they who were there can make. just as arguably mengele never existed ; wholly creation of jew victimlobby.
mircea_popescu: ahahaha laura parson kicks all ass! "stem syllabi are gendered because they promote the idea that knowledge can be ascertained through reason, which is a masculine concept that hurts women's feelings and makes it difficult for them to succeed."
☟︎ PeterL: well, black men seem to be targeted most by police, so therefore they have that excuse to run away
mircea_popescu: so the problem isn't the fact that the police machinery of the rogue state is a criminal entreprise ; and people understandably want to avoid them.
☟︎ PeterL: but I think anybody could point to this and say running away was not reasonable cause for suspicion, but IANAL
mircea_popescu: the problem is that the police machinery of the rogue state bestows its blessings particularly on tall women with nice tits, and therefore it's all about ~that~
PeterL: you want rogue state to outright admit that it is a rogue state?
PeterL: what independence? they all get elected by the same people, don't they?
mircea_popescu: i think in texas judgeships are elective, but in mass nominated ?
mats: the country's about split half and half with elections and appointments
PeterL: "The seven justices of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court are appointed by the governor with the approval of the Governor's Council." looks like you are right
a111: Logged on 2016-09-22 18:34 mircea_popescu: so the problem isn't the fact that the police machinery of the rogue state is a criminal entreprise ; and people understandably want to avoid them.
PeterL: police are like the T-rex in Jurrasic Park - hold still and they can't see you
mircea_popescu: i dunno if you've ever heard of the "national sovereignity" thing ; but let me point out it was originally enacted by europeans through the process of deliberately provoking the austrohungarian police.
mircea_popescu: well, nobody's wasp proof. including the derpy archduke.
mircea_popescu: "token's life matters" people seem uncharacteristically well equipped.
BingoBoingo in other news in playing with houseplants and working on invading the indoor portions of my spider hole with gardening.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> gasenlimo <+asciilifeform> gas in style!111 << haha
BingoBoingo: Most people don't use Yahoo to Yahoo. They use Yahoo to do X thing a yahoo attached tool purported to do.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-22 17:49 scriba: Logged on 2016-09-22: [14:31:38] <asciilifeform> 1) every old lappy comes with a high-quality DAC fit for shortwave! the vga card.
phf: wasn't there also a radio hack, using crt output
phf: oh never mind that's what you already posted
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 431038 | Current Difficulty: 2.2583287217945956E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 431423 | Next Difficulty In: 385 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 16 hours, 10 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
deedbot: Bit4u voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: You know alien crop circles to go with alien lizard masters?
BingoBoingo: !!up Bit4u speak and fix your connection or face ignoring!
deedbot: Bit4u voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: Well do you have a better year to live in?
shinohai: preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Except for the part where someone is likely collecting aug_sep_oct16 in real time
BingoBoingo: Likely get promoted to somewhere more boring
BingoBoingo: That's like saying desk cactus is not metal enough for home defense. It has spikes and lives in very tossable clay pot.
BingoBoingo: Nah, purely and formally Byzantine use of language.