tmsr - Log 2019-05-29

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spyked: good morning, #t! following up on the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915244 thread: I've started reviewing hunchentoot, the first step would be to figure out which code base to use as a starting point from the genesis. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 21:36 lobbes: http://www.thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html#selection-197.31-205.258 << I wager there's a good chance you'll publish a genesis of tbnl/hunchentoot before I eat through mod_lisp, but I agree: as pieces emerge, we can sync up, regrind as needed, etc.

spyked: so far I've been looking at the project changelog and the patch history and the patches seem like a mixed bunch, with (perhaps) some useful things and breakage a la sslism. so before going further, I'd like to get some idea of what version of hunchentoot the lordship and the L2 are using

spyked: in particular, I saw trinque, phf and ben_vulpes have been using it in the past, so I'd appreciate any input you have on the matter ☟︎

spyked: and I guess I'd prefer starting from code already battle-tested by L1 (in the form of a tarball + ksum?) rather than shithub, and turning _that_ into a genesis. although I suspect I'll have to dig deeper into the heathenpits of git commits anyway.

spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915245 <-- in other c coad, /me spent his last 2-3 weeks looking at the tcp stack implementation in linus' kernel. it is truly a fungus, macguyvered with duct tape and rubber bands, such that changing one line almost anywhere breaks shit all over the place. ☝︎☟︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 21:36 lobbes: As it stands I have two full pages of hand-written notes with various c and apache-stack likbez, and that was just so I could understand up to line 152 of https://github.com/mbattyani/mod_lisp/blob/master/mod_lisp2.c (only 900 or so lines left to eat). I most likely will publish these notes as a blog post once all is said and done

a111: Logged on 2019-05-22 19:44 mp_en_viaje: spyked, some very sad http://trilema.com/2017/the-world-has-changed/ shit right there.

diana_coman: by now I suspect most code out there is the fungus sort as that's how things "naturally grow"

spyked: the weird part is that the linux tcp stack ~works~ for the most part. I imagine the maintainer of that particular subsystem must be a neckbeard with 20+y experience in tcp (because sure, it's not only the implementation, the protocol itself is a mountain of complexity) ☟︎

spyked: and then looking at e.g. https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v3.10/source/Documentation/CodingStyle , one can readily notice that half or maybe more of the tcp code doesn't meet that minimum set of criteria. and yet... it's there. so, I guess re. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902966 he was prolly dumb from the very beginning ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 21:44 mircea_popescu: made slightly mroe interesting by it having been written before rather than after linus went dumb.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916143 << https://archive.is/BPeGN , lol. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 09:06 spyked: the weird part is that the linux tcp stack ~works~ for the most part. I imagine the maintainer of that particular subsystem must be a neckbeard with 20+y experience in tcp (because sure, it's not only the implementation, the protocol itself is a mountain of complexity)

asciilifeform: the usual megatonne-of-c-liquishit style of 'works'.

spyked: asciilifeform, sure. it's surprising that it works "for some values" even, imho. to illustrate: http://archive.is/9Ssvh#selection-71637.0-71641.16 <-- saucerful of barf

asciilifeform: spyked: not only is the implementation what it is, but tcp per se is massive pile o'shit, where it aint even possible to implement it w/out 9000 tonnes of state machine gnarl

asciilifeform: i vaguely suspect that it may have been the original usg-'standards committee'-powered explicitly-organized nobus generator

asciilifeform: the protocol is 'fractally retarded' -- i.e. broken on absolutely erry possible level. starting from where it takes exactly 1 trivially forged packet to close someone's connection, to where 'allcomers' get a substantial chunk of memory allocated , and make ddos trivial , to where it forces 9000x moar complicated design of routing gear, to... could continue but why.

asciilifeform: see e.g. old thrd re subj . ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-26 13:34 asciilifeform: tcp is evil, fundamentally because it violates the 'NEVER something-for-nothing-to-all-comers-FUCKOFFRANDOS' principle.

asciilifeform: ... and here ; and elsewhere. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-03-14 14:31 asciilifeform: Framedragger: the problem with tcp isn't simply that enemy can insert an RST packet and make you blame your peer. (and whitelists do 0 against this.) but that it is very expensive , computationally, long before you have any idea who you're talking to.

asciilifeform: tcp shows erry possible sign of having been designed, from the start, to extend the ease of snoopage from traditional circuit-switched telco grid, to the packet world. consider e.g. the 'helpfully' plaintext sequence numbers. ☟︎

asciilifeform: or how routers on erry hop of a connection are forced to maintain a 'circuit' state in memory, as if they were telco switches

BingoBoingo: And routers on network borders need the entire BGP table in RAM

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in alert readers, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2118&cpage=1#comment-19800

BingoBoingo: In other news, the Cafetera died. An autopsy will be performed.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wassat

BingoBoingo: However I am curious how the cheapest model on the local market failed.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: get a https://archive.is/UQmLg . cheap, and you'll never want 'machine coffee' after tasted from it.

asciilifeform: + ~indestructible.

asciilifeform: thing makes up in concentration what it loses in volume.

asciilifeform: can even pack 1:1 volumetric like the turks themselves do.

BingoBoingo: Sure, but that involves breaking a bunch of rather ingrained habits.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: s/owing/owning

BingoBoingo: In other news, the flooding back home is approaching 1993 levels

mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-29#1916138 << this incidentally is as fine a measure of code quality as could ever be hoped for : DLC, "disentangled lines count", the number of lines which can be changed. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 08:51 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-22#1915245 <-- in other c coad, /me spent his last 2-3 weeks looking at the tcp stack implementation in linus' kernel. it is truly a fungus, macguyvered with duct tape and rubber bands, such that changing one line almost anywhere breaks shit all over the place.

a111: Logged on 2019-05-29 15:27 asciilifeform: tcp shows erry possible sign of having been designed, from the start, to extend the ease of snoopage from traditional circuit-switched telco grid, to the packet world. consider e.g. the 'helpfully' plaintext sequence numbers.

mp_en_viaje: being a common "private" email service recommended outside the republic > being a "private" email service commonly recommended outside the republic ? ☟︎

BingoBoingo: In wankers "nuclear capacity operating in advanced economies would decline by two-thirds by 2040, from about 280GW in 2018 down to just over 90GW in 2040" << If the capacity is declining, they aren't "advanced economies" unless "advanced" means Africanizing