tmsr - Log 2019-09-14

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-13#1935941 << notbad idea for a follow-up patch. I'll have to shelve it until I deliver the main product tho

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-13 17:53:40 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-13#1935874 << when lobbes bakes a phpistic parser for these, could put in mp's-wp then ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 03:29:14 mircea_popescu: holy shit i had to take out [] style links from my latest trilema draft.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-13 18:13:40 asciilifeform: lobbes: added ericbot to colourizer list .

deedbot: Not registered.

lobbes: trinque: seems like this fella was having issues registering his key http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UFHE

lobbes: In other news, I wish this mp-wp-bot already existed. I've been trying to locate a Trilema piece for this post I'm working on, and I must've gone through a few dozen by now with no luck.

lobbes: I believe it talks about the limit of existence in a socialist world. There's a specific phrase in it that goes something like "You'd better make sure you negotiate for what you want, because that is *all* you are getting. Ever." Any Trilema-ologists in know it?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 00:25:35 lobbes: trinque: seems like this fella was having issues registering his key http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UFHE

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 00:21:30 jfw: I seem to be having trouble registering with deedbot, but in the mean time I'm http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc and a bridge from a prior key

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935529 << there's about zero chances i'll tell someone what to do with things that don't interest me. i mean it's not even fucking possible, altogether, by reason of logical inconsistency : if you're not interested in a toy, how the fuck can you summon the basis upon which to tell others what to do with it ? if you're interested then the same thing upon which that interest

mircea_popescu: is based will inform the ought discussion, sure ; but absent that... just, how ?!

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 09:23:33 diana_coman: there is always (and still available and I'd like to see it taken by phf, yes) the place in other castles; so I suppose, if one must answer the question, the threshold as I see it atm = reaching to ban from *other* castles.

mircea_popescu: in fact, breaking this distinction is truly the one deep problem with all sorts of "religious" thinkers in their own view, aka unmitigated morons in reality : the traditional position of the mula, intellectually impossible as it is, stands as "i'm not interested in sin therefore here's what you must do about it".

mircea_popescu: this shocking bit of imbecility unites across all times and all geography idiotic old women from george fox to cioran's hag with dirty feet.

mircea_popescu: notwithstanding its manifest popularity among the most perdurant and pervasive type of hostis humani generis, it's still impracticable insanity.

mircea_popescu: if i'm gonna want to learn about sex ima ask rapists not "careerwomen", and if i'm gonna want to learn about war ima visit hitler not "pacifists", "global hunger fixers" an' the rest of that very sad lot.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935538 << it'd have been very hard to do, also, considering he never published anything.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 09:44:24 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935455 - fwiw I don't think anyone contested the quality of the technical work done by phf.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 00:43:20 asciilifeform: trinque: orig. contention, which i disputed. phf was 1 of the very, very few people whose hands grew from right place, and it will take very long time to replace , not even speaking of the full functionality of the orig. bot ( still not had ) but of e.g. the vpatch viewer, which i use erry fucking day of the week

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 05:21:49 mircea_popescu: imagine, all this flurry of exciting new development could have been occuring in 2017, if i had the sense to kick phf out on his rear in 2017, rather than let him sit his dumb ass on us for two years.

mircea_popescu: but yes, to say it plainly : i don't agree phf was some kind of technical monument or example to be followed. making things that work does not enact one into such ; observe that every frog makes things that work, extremely fine things that work extremely well, viz the very fucking frog in question. yet a frog that can breathe is an ordinary frog, not an exceptional engineer.

mircea_popescu: there's http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-03#856336 / http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-03#856338 distinction bearing here : if one's notion of technical acument doesn't include "describing the things", every dog's an engineer nonpareil for having fleas. ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2014-10-03 04:07 mircea_popescu: this is the difference between invention and daydreaming, something my mother explained to me when i was like 6

a111: Logged on 2014-10-03 04:08 mircea_popescu: and i wanted to know if when someone invents something, they have to also say how it's to be made

mircea_popescu: one can't quite make fleas in the lab as things stand right now, so in this utterly jeffersonian view the ploughsman's the only true scientist.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 01:38:41 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935538 << it'd have been very hard to do, also, considering he never published anything.

asciilifeform: afaik was the 1 and only properly vpublished piece of his tho ( unless count '15 ext. to asciilifeform's 'shiva' proggy.. )

asciilifeform: d00d was ( and past tense, seems to have stopped twitching ~mo. ago? ) strangely phobic of posting progs

mircea_popescu: (incidentally, for the linguist interested in the natural evolution of alphabetic language into hieroglyphic, such as both egyptian and chinese naturally ended up in the shit after being used as languages for long enough, tironian notes provide the necessary bridge)

mircea_popescu: ^ link above should be alf's "only so many lines of code within before madness", but i can't find it.

mircea_popescu: why's the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-06#1921930 returned, it has no "a b" in there ; and why's it not bolded ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-06 04:42:12 BingoBoingo: The particular election rabbit hole I've just about completely explored is how "book club" party with an uncontested internal managed ~50 kilovotes for recently fired former commander in chief Guido Manini Ríos Stratta whose only firm platform position seems to be no "reform" of the military retirement system and softer position declaring "Army on streets is good"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, didactica aside, i dunno any of his production was even vaguely visible. i mean, you realise trilema still runs to this very fucking day on code published in what was it, 2015,

mircea_popescu: whatever, just as soon as it was even vaguely possible one might've had some use for it. and this is ~deeply unsexy~, mind, i ain't publishing boihood-conventional "cool stuff & frank zappa" here. i'm publishing the most shameful thing known to the wankastery collective, and then end up having to "battle" nonsense of "oh, mp is intellectually stunted, can't install linux" because of it

snsabot: Logged on 2019-02-07 14:22:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a greybeard once told asciilifeform , 'you dun know it, but you got finite # loc in you, once you've written them will stand the machine no moar and have to move to forest and eat bark'. i'm not even convinced that it was joke.

asciilifeform: ftr i cannot, try as i might, understand the publication-phobiac folx. when you sit on the proggy, all yer doing is making sure that others will spit on your grave, 'grr, fucker, because of him i have to write the 17th logotron nao'

mircea_popescu: the reason so much misdesign exists in the world is the imbecile puritan "think positive" nonsense.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936012 << 'describe' is very difficult. or maybe i'm thick. but i wrote pieces that were >50% commentola by weight and when rereading still sad, 'this is not properly described'.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 01:42:47 mircea_popescu: there's http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-03#856336 / http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-03#856338 distinction bearing here : if one's notion of technical acument doesn't include "describing the things", every dog's an engineer nonpareil for having fleas.

mircea_popescu: correct thinking consists of thinking ~about the negative space~. not about the positive space. not "oh hurr durr it works", ffs.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, standard wasn't ~properly~ described. standard was described at fucking all, i don't need to explain the difference between your logger which diana_coman 's running now and phf's alleged logger which, for all anyone knows, consists of one mechanical turk who meanwhile got sad / ran away.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when wrote 'm', actually spent many days rewriting the commentary. but today when looking at it, 'who can read this? why?' and sad.

asciilifeform: it was enheartening tho when diana_coman ate ffa 1-19 and commented. apparently it was edible by at least 1 . (even if took a maffs doctor )

mircea_popescu: to continue "publication-phobic folks" thread : difference between mouse and man is that moue will eat itself into overweight to the point where can't, famously, get back out through the hole it came in.

mircea_popescu: man will consider, "oh nice, there's nine pies here, i'm still going to have ONE SLICE".

mircea_popescu: and like this in everything -- man will say "i can't fucking sit on all this, people will spit on grave IF ONE DAY IT HAPPENS i'm incapacitated".

asciilifeform writes proggies as a kind of will / seppuku haiku. 'friends, here is how to operate, for i am not among...' flavour.

mircea_popescu: man will say "i can't sit about pretending to myself i've a gf, if in case something should happen this Maddy Humphreys woman doesn't know enough of me to mention the circumstance in the one place that matters in my life"

mircea_popescu: not "do i want a jetski" but "what will i do with a jetski in akron, ohio" and "how will i pay the cc bill or why should i have to".

mircea_popescu: negative fucking space ffs, it used to be called thinking back when my grandfather could barely read ; now that all everyone does all day is "read" facebook somehow magically nobody can think anymore ?

feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/the-next-phases-of-escape/ << lobbesblog -- The next phases of escape

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935541 << i suspect this is exactly right, actually ; at least it was read so, judging by the natural rejoinder the immutable machine readily produced.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 09:52:19 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935464 - hm, this sounds to me like the fundamental difference causes/purposes all over again; you are looking at what is needed (work done and done well!) and that's your start, so you build backwards, ending up with basically "too needed to fail" sort of thing.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 11:53:01 mircea_popescu: it'll solve all the world's problems regardless : either through zeroing, or else through solving.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 00:49:58 asciilifeform: it is very easy to say 'they were weak, fughet'em'. but fact remains, they were not replaced , of yet .

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 11:19:51 asciilifeform: diana_coman: let's reformulate. it takes a very long time to produce 1st class people. (as a pedagogue, you know this.) if they burn up faster than they are produced -- this is a problem.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935554 << it's not like it's fucking arbitrary, might as well ask sums to "moderate themselves", why not, write letter to factorial, "dear factorial, your results are computationalyl challenging, and it is unfair to most numbers above 10 or so that they can never feel safe in being followed up by an exclamation point like their single-digit bretheren. why won't you moderat

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 11:52:55 diana_coman: asciilifeform: for the other thing, the situation you describe can indeed very well happen and yes, a problem, but the solution can never be "restrain your adverse reaction"

mircea_popescu: the only law is this : that if you don't want to have to write 3600 digits, don't fucking start with 1337!

mircea_popescu: Yes, obviously, as per long standing republican doctrine (and standing as such since long before this particular republic was even declared) the lord can get away with bloody murder. Of course he can. But this doesn't mean it's not murder, or not bloody."

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 12:14:35 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935555 << take for instance this. very easy to condemn phf for losing logger for week; but what about errybody else, who happily put up with a single-machine, unpublished-src logger for years ?

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935561 << unlike phf, holding a torch of oneitis for some pantsuit chick that likely couldn't pick him out of a line-up, i should hope the texan has enough fucking sense to actually manage his household as his own.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 12:15:28 asciilifeform: for that matter, we still have a system like this -- deedbot. is trinque doomed to same fate as phf, if he ever 'gets lucky' and trapped on cannibal island , and it takes him a week to knife his way out ?

mircea_popescu: and if he doesn't, yes, very much exactly beheaded in the same way for the same reasons.

snsabot: 0 results for "phenolphthalein won't forgive" in #trilema

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935562 << he has this weird approach to discussing all approaches to problem that'd pass for offensive anywhere else. here it's just weird -- but yes, it is fucking weird.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 12:20:12 diana_coman: asciilifeform: that wasn't at all the issue and it has been already pointed out to you several times, here and on trilema.com

mircea_popescu: i suppose it is also terse, missing out on about 2/3 of the introductions does save some space.

mircea_popescu: i don't expect anyone can actually talk to alf who isn't both very intellectualyl lively and has a lot of experience talking to alfs. which technically is the definition of autism, i guess.

mircea_popescu: come to think about it ... yo asciilifeform , do you realise about 9/10ths of trilema the blog by mass is spurious introduction, which i could very well "do without" by employing a similar tironian process, except then nobody in the whole fucking world could follow what the fuck's being said anymore ?

mircea_popescu: not that very many manage even as it is -- but i'll be fucked with thistlestalks before i make that 9/10ths 19/20ths, holy hell, i'll need spare wrists.

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935581 << of course the trigger was the trigger. what's in a trigger ? my neighbour has this eight year old dog. it's a large dog, and in large dogs eight is pretty much the end of the line. it's coming for her, too, three or four times already she passed out running / fell over, sat there squirming in desperation. heart's giving out.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 12:56:02 asciilifeform: diana_coman: the trigger for the entire episode. was the loss of the logger .

mircea_popescu: it's how large dogs die, as this one'll die. and when it dies, whatever the fuck will have been ~the trigger~. whatever the fuck inconsequential event, a car honking, a cat jumping, a bad dream, things that happen daily to other dogs to no ill effect.

mircea_popescu: it's a dog, though, it has no fucking idea it's walking about looking for that final trigger.

mircea_popescu: it doesnt' even understand what the fuck's happening to it when it passes out, seems rather like a ~momentary~ inexplainable nonsense / witchcraft best not ever considered past the moment, forgotten as soon as it passed as part and parcel of what being a dog even is ; there's no anxious dogs because dogs have no memory in this reflexive sense.

mircea_popescu: in fact, the whole http://trilema.com/2013/for-lack-of-a-nail/ thing is exactly this : a succession of triggers.

mircea_popescu: in any case, let's just say that trigger avoidance is a comparatively poorer strategy

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935593 << traditionally the process in dealing with personal failure is 1. "here's what i did wrong" ; 2. "here's what ima do to not do that again in the future".

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 13:17:36 asciilifeform: diana_coman: changed how ? grow extra pair of hands ? a tree-proof arse ?

mircea_popescu: coversely, the process of being an imbecile is 1. "here's what i don't like about you" initiating half of the retard's handshake.

mircea_popescu: dood to this fucking day imagines himself a "basically decent" fellow who "was oppressed" by the meanies of this world for "his bad luck". because idiocy comes in layers, lucifer went straight to hell thinking himself i nthe right on the same exact process also. it's a thing.

mircea_popescu: as a sure-fire heuristic, only dumb cunts discover "they were abused" as a disavowed result misrepresented as driving cause of contemplating how they fucked up.

mircea_popescu: and THIS is what's meant by "if you hang out with retards you'll become retarded" : dude spent so much time with the ustards, he is now behaving like a stupid cunt. his discovery of having fucked up doesn't lead to "omfg, i fucked up SO BAD". it leads to "oh, republic is abusive".

mircea_popescu: and it's self-perpetuating, too. if i take the trouble to actually write a trilema piece for his dumb ass, something absolutely nobody's entitled to expect, the result's more elaborate disavowal and general cuntery, rather than an awakening to sense.

mircea_popescu: because duh, "nobody ever got hanged for being a stupid cunt", the foundational myth of the inca state.

mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : hey trinque, now that there's actually multiple functional castles the time's prolly come to update the deedbot voice model into awareness of this situation. so how about a patch making voice in #trilema dependent on ~my~ wot, rather than deedbot's own ; and similarily in any castles that ask for it / you come to an understanding with the lords thereof, so they can use the voice model there if they wanna.

mircea_popescu: this way the ad-interim imaginaria of a bot's wot can be put back on the shelf where it belongs.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1935997 - makes sense; and it's precisely why I'd see it as a sign of disease btw because it... is.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 01:39:18 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935529 << there's about zero chances i'll tell someone what to do with things that don't interest me. i mean it's not even fucking possible, altogether, by reason of logical inconsistency : if you're not interested in a toy, how the fuck can you summon the basis upon which to tell others what to do with it ? if you're interested then the same thing upon which t

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936040 - hey, glad to hear it actually! it was wholesome food (and no maffs-doctor here, fwiw the maffs in it are undergraduate level I'd say, not more).

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 02:24:17 asciilifeform: it was enheartening tho when diana_coman ate ffa 1-19 and commented. apparently it was edible by at least 1 . (even if took a maffs doctor )

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935597 << that's kinda lulzy, seeing how you're the only one who did this iirc ?! no need for the guilt trip though : only children organise their movement through the world by the path of less beatings.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 13:19:15 asciilifeform: diana_coman: no, i actually buy your summary, 'd00d wouldn't fucking talk'. but i'm also willing to ask ~why~ didn't talk ? maybe because erry time he opened the door, there was a beating behind it ?

mircea_popescu: kinda the importance of beatings in the harem -- it sweats the women out of the little girls.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936099 - this would be great because I've been quite apprehensive of rating pageboys at all because it comes with talking-rights here while they are not yet ready.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:06:31 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : hey trinque, now that there's actually multiple functional castles the time's prolly come to update the deedbot voice model into awareness of this situation. so how about a patch making voice in #trilema dependent on ~my~ wot, rather than deedbot's own ; and similarily in any castles that ask for it / you come to an understanding with the lords thereof, so they can use the voice model there if the

mircea_popescu: where the fuck's that lobbes comment re calling girls/sluts/etc ? not on blog not in log wtf, it was lik last week

mircea_popescu: it's obviously to be done by the master's hand and none other, which is why that entire lisp obscura grilling was so bizarre ; but whatever, growing pains.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:09:41 mircea_popescu: where the fuck's that lobbes comment re calling girls/sluts/etc ? not on blog not in log wtf, it was lik last week

mircea_popescu: diana_coman, might still have to make soem kind of two-tiered system, because im not going to either unrate most everyone i have rated now nor let any and all talk. so i guess ima have two keysets ? nfi.

mircea_popescu: that scary moment when one notices the TWO most recent items in trilema comments queue are trackbacks from other people's blogs.

mircea_popescu: i mean, i see the merit, but isn't this rather tcp-style overloading of adhocisms ?

mircea_popescu: is there actual substantial meaning translated thereby ? /me shall have to meditate

mircea_popescu: nothing wrong in principle with giving numbers names, i guess. at least, human practice to date hasn't found it so far.

mircea_popescu: will run into the usual problem, when will want to insert thing between 4 and 5 and there';s no number there.'

diana_coman: well, the roles are what matter, no? ie it's peers talk; if today peers are marked with 9 and tomorrow with 11, such is history

mircea_popescu: and i can see the "hey diana_coman if you dun wanna rate johnny 9 then don't knight'him" ?

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935600 << i however was there at table (twice), and the way it got left off, last i heard, was a vague "of course will definitely dedicate seriously to republic work nao" / "had trouble in the past of various extractions but all better now / financially comfortable" and so on.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 13:20:48 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i wasn't there, at the tea table, so can't say. but fwiw i suspect he thought 'already written off' .

snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-24 09:50:27 mp_en_viaje: hey phf, did you disappear ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-07-28 19:01:07 mp_en_viaje: as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1806991 tradition i don't even have enough information to distinguish between the case where "phf bleeding to death in a minsk ditch" ; "phf in love forgot all about world" ; "phf kidnapped by unreported alien invasion" or literally any other alternative. nfi how to approach it, either, tried everything i could think of.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-02 02:14:00 mp_en_viaje: o look at that, phf logger also quit sometime last night. hey!

snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-23 05:17:58 mircea_popescu: "Needless to say, I am unamused ; and, to answer the original inquiry in firmer terms containing no ifs or buts : no, I personally have no further interest in hearing what phf may have to say on any topic. The time for "ok then, I will get my logger to spec by X date and hope to have my blog up by Y date" came and went, sometime yesterday.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 13:29:43 asciilifeform: fwiw 'talk directly to mp' when 'i'm in a corner' moar often than not , in my experience, gives this output. i accept this, he's a 'sink or swim' sort of guru. but also not surprised that phf hesitated to ask him for an evac chopper .

mircea_popescu: the quote in particular is misleading -- it discusses a stupidity of young women, whereby they very much as discussed above misrepresent their "needs" as "support for escaping the consequence of their idiocy without needing to substantially review theyr cunthead".

mircea_popescu: this ain't a proper need ; and will get no support. it's what the "need" in there denotes, rather than the plain need.

mircea_popescu: that's the big problem with "helping", teenagers especially, but not just : they dun wanna be helped, they just wanna be insulated from the consequences of their idiocy.

mircea_popescu: #metoo and all that is merely contemporaneous expression of ~same eternal thing.

diana_coman: fwiw I always end up scratching my head at this "mircea_popescu won't help" because I haven't seen more people that are more helpful than mircea_popescu ; the only way that "won't help" makes sense to me is if it's fully qualified as in "won't help your stupidity"

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935607 << that thing's one of the few things that if can be shaken loose was never there in the first place.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 13:43:52 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935499 << it also shakes other things out of people. when , e.g., lysenko had vavilov confined to dungeon, the other academicians went 'gulp', 'he MUST've been traitor' , etc.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 13:53:57 asciilifeform: stalin is remembered as effective king strictly because the war forced moderation of leukocyte. otherwise, he'd be remembered as exactly like e.g. emperor qin shihuangdi, who beheaded succession of 9000 alchemists for failing to produce elixir of immortality, until finally gave up in frustration and ate one , fulla hg salts

mircea_popescu: also, comparison with iliterate peasant / highwaty robber's bound to break down at SOME fucking point.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 14:35:19 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935524 << this is worth making a full copy of. trinque can you spare some disk space ?

mircea_popescu: lobbes, i wasn' taware indigence is a bar to re-entry in the zone (i'm putting this here rather than in a comment for visibility, so moar informed folk can see an' comment)

mircea_popescu isn't specifically any kind of usgistani expert, hasn't visited in nigh on two decades by now, hasn't cared to for same interval also.

feedbot: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/09/logotron-active-disconnect-vpatch/ << bvt's backtrace -- Logotron: active_disconnect.vpatch

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/concedo-hoc/ << Trilema -- Concedo hoc...

ave1: So I'm working on genesis of gcc and the second test build is running. First failed, I expect some more failures before done.

ave1: One problem so far is that the executable flags are not perserved in vdiff, so I have added a script to restore these. Is there any other option?

diana_coman: ave1: a script to set the flags seems fine with me; I don't really see any other sensible option either.

ave1: I could not find any other solution in the logs, except for removing for example configure, but that's one step too far for me for gcc.

diana_coman: ave1: that sounds like a later step really; it makes sense to first genesis as that's quite some work too anyway.

BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936171 << Some kinds of debt including unpaid child support and certain debts to the IRS will prevent leaving the zone after re-entry. This list may expand in the future.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 06:09:39 mircea_popescu: lobbes, i wasn' taware indigence is a bar to re-entry in the zone (i'm putting this here rather than in a comment for visibility, so moar informed folk can see an' comment)

mircea_popescu: not student loans tho, at least as it stands. for one thing, they're mostly commercial paper ; for the other thing, such a ban'd be pretty much equivalent to banning youth from travelling, afaik most are in some kind of default.

mircea_popescu: then again, i suppose with per capita consumption in the us at the lowest levels in the place's history, way below ww2 levels and only commensurate with the economic puritanism of the 1600s... banning tourism might not even be an outrage.

BingoBoingo: At least not student loans yet. There's been noises produced by folks in the halls of retardation suggesting delinquent student loans may get passports revoked, but so far only whisperings

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, going fast towards "los recursos se dolarean automaticamente", no dobut about it.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeed. And the common folk in this part of the world get put to the screws because they measure inflation primarily against the dollar. "dollar doesn't move"

BingoBoingo: Anyways, that's why I find "Ernest Talvi - He identifies as a US trained economist. His voter base is mostly reddit dorks." << http://bingology.net/2019/05/26/overview-of-local-electoral-politics-heading-into-the-impending-party-internals/ more offensive than the PCU, MPP, and Mujica. The commies steal, but the "identifies as economist" wants to steal being stolen from and package it for sale in New York.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 03:03:50 mircea_popescu: it's a dog, though, it has no fucking idea it's walking about looking for that final trigger.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936099 << this also imho good idea. tho afaik none of the other castles carry enuff load yet to make voicetronic model appealing there

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 03:50:52 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : hey trinque, now that there's actually multiple functional castles the time's prolly come to update the deedbot voice model into awareness of this situation. so how about a patch making voice in #trilema dependent on ~my~ wot, rather than deedbot's own ; and similarily in any castles that ask for it / you come to an understanding with the lords thereof, so they can use the voice model there if the

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936104 << in asciilifeform's eyes, ought to be edible by anyone who passed arithmetic in grade school. or, so was the design.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 03:58:56 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936040 - hey, glad to hear it actually! it was wholesome food (and no maffs-doctor here, fwiw the maffs in it are undergraduate level I'd say, not more).

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 02:24:17 asciilifeform: it was enheartening tho when diana_coman ate ffa 1-19 and commented. apparently it was edible by at least 1 . (even if took a maffs doctor )

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936106 << i thought it was clear, but yes, was asciilifeform who whacked phf with stick in regular installments. ( other folx, to whom were promised e.g. the file-movement knob in vdiff -- could have beat, but took mercy )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 03:59:47 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935597 << that's kinda lulzy, seeing how you're the only one who did this iirc ?! no need for the guilt trip though : only children organise their movement through the world by the path of less beatings.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936112 << to me he promised diff. knob, which granted nobody else wanted, and i still have nfi why took 2y of fighting with inner devils to disgorge. ( did, in the end, disgorge, after continued prods out of band. )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:10:47 mircea_popescu: it's obviously to be done by the master's hand and none other, which is why that entire lisp obscura grilling was so bizarre ; but whatever, growing pains.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936126 << this is imho workable, if not very fine grained (the 1-10 dial wasn't very fine grained to begin with, but does it need to be? )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:15:34 mircea_popescu: 10 is dead, 9 is peerage, the rest's the rest.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936145 << somewhat reminiscent of shinohai ( who also , iirc, solved the 'day job problem' ) but somehow to this day not found the strength to actually do sumthing constructive w/ the freed time

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:21:39 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935600 << i however was there at table (twice), and the way it got left off, last i heard, was a vague "of course will definitely dedicate seriously to republic work nao" / "had trouble in the past of various extractions but all better now / financially comfortable" and so on.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936169 << dulap's been short on disk for a while. ( atm it's a raid5 of 4 x 256G , i.e. 750 usable ; ~90% full at this time )

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 05:11:31 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935623 << what, because you don't ?!

asciilifeform: imho The Right Thing there would be to build new array on dulap-spare , w/ cuntoo. ( naturally after crate flies )

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936188 << they're traditionally moar interested in 'kulaks, who surely have gold squirreled away somewhere!' than the stones with certifiably 0 blood to squeeze

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 12:06:35 BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936171 << Some kinds of debt including unpaid child support and certain debts to the IRS will prevent leaving the zone after re-entry. This list may expand in the future.

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-catie-reloaded-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thelastpsychiatrist.com - CATIE Reloaded. Adnotated.

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936160 << verily. Furthermore, the inescapable truth is that one day mircea_popescu will shuffle off this mortal coil. Why anyone would not want to eat as much of his brain while he is around is completely unfathomable to me, especially since he is willingly offering it to eat! The Republic will one day need to stand on its own feet and produce

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-14 07:57:52 diana_coman: fwiw I always end up scratching my head at this "mircea_popescu won't help" because I haven't seen more people that are more helpful than mircea_popescu ; the only way that "won't help" makes sense to me is if it's fully qualified as in "won't help your stupidity"

lobbes: in other words, I definitely do not get the "abuse" angle / "does not help" angle either

feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-catie-sigh-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thelastpsychiatrist.com - CATIE: Sigh. Adnotated.

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936194 << hmm, yeah I guess it wouldn't prevent me today at least. Still, not sure if I'd be willing to take that risk that the list won't expand as the end days of the empire march onward. Meh, moar thinking to do for me it seems

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-14 15:25:35 BingoBoingo: At least not student loans yet. There's been noises produced by folks in the halls of retardation suggesting delinquent student loans may get passports revoked, but so far only whisperings

lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936225 << makes sense, though I could see them expanding it to student loans for pure ceremonial reasons.

ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-14 16:13:13 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936188 << they're traditionally moar interested in 'kulaks, who surely have gold squirreled away somewhere!' than the stones with certifiably 0 blood to squeeze

asciilifeform: lobbes: as i understand it, the current regime of leave/enter in usgschwitz is 'liberal' strictly b/c there is much larger 'invisible fence' that keeps zeks comin' back

asciilifeform: starting with the fact that ~80% of'em never even had an external passport at all, nor can think of why to ask for one

lobbes: this is true. Most who do leave, do so to fenced in resorts where they do not need to learn local tongue even

lobbes: hrm, though I just thought of another rub: my mom actually cosigned my student loans. Which means if I default they will come after her for the money. Those damn octopus arms are everywhere

lobbes: perhaps I should look into the 'renegotiation' thing after all. maybe can shield her that way.

asciilifeform: lobbes: as i understand, the paper 'defenses' are increasingly dead letters naodays

snsabot: Logged on 2017-06-29 13:32:13 BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8142 << "Her attorney informed us this morning, that although the deed is being assigned to my sister, my brother and I, that if my mother requires nursing home care through Medicare at any point over the next five years, that the Feds will take the house to pay the bills. "

asciilifeform: lobbes: i.e. if you 'own' sumthing in usaschwitz that dun fit in a suitcase, and you have no working plan to liquidate into btc -- consider it lost to enemy

asciilifeform: lobbes: in re elderly relatives ( and asciilifeform also has some ) -- if you have the budget, and they're reasonably portable, you can try to evacuate'em. bitter pill, but gotta point out, lotsa folx went to the ovens in prev. reich who otherwise didn't have to, because they did not come up with a timely decisive cut of this knot.

asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936176 << holyfuq! was this ~just~ gcc, or also the 'toolchains' crapolade ?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 07:33:53 ave1: Patch file weighs 387M

asciilifeform: ( aaand, cannot resist to pose the q, what % of this mass is autoconf liquishit ? )

asciilifeform: ( typical gnutardism, historically, is coupla 100kB of actual sores, and several MB of autoconf ! )

mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936235 << by now you're in pure lunatic with a bloodied axe territory, though. "No man's life, liberty or fortune is safe while our legislature is in session" as per franklin, and so for all you know it'll just as well perhaps become illegal to be named eric.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 15:27:11 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936194 << hmm, yeah I guess it wouldn't prevent me today at least. Still, not sure if I'd be willing to take that risk that the list won't expand as the end days of the empire march onward. Meh, moar thinking to do for me it seems

mircea_popescu: not like there's no precedent. it was recently illegal to be named ito, sato, suzuki &c

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 15:45:52 lobbes: hrm, though I just thought of another rub: my mom actually cosigned my student loans. Which means if I default they will come after her for the money. Those damn octopus arms are everywhere

mircea_popescu: then again, ~all old folks are broke anyway as far as the eye can see, so it makes little practical difference.

mircea_popescu: (you may think she has home equity or w/e, but in practice see the medicare threads, it's on loan)

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 15:58:06 asciilifeform: lobbes: in re elderly relatives ( and asciilifeform also has some ) -- if you have the budget, and they're reasonably portable, you can try to evacuate'em. bitter pill, but gotta point out, lotsa folx went to the ovens in prev. reich who otherwise didn't have to, because they did not come up with a timely decisive cut of this knot.

BingoBoingo: In local news: Uruguayos stripped down and humiliated in the Plaza Independencia https://i.redd.it/dsjaoraybmm31.jpg

feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/09/14/eulora-client-data-hierarchy-v20/ << Ossa Sepia -- Eulora Client Data Hierarchy v2.0

BingoBoingo: But yes, the plaza in front of the President's tower, the National Standards Institute, and the National theater is being occupied by Hollywood adjacent forces with some pretty shitty looking tanks

BingoBoingo: Tanks https://i.imgur.com/lZPZUtw.jpg << Do not appear to be a match for Uruguay's actual tanks

feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/09/richard-stallman-targeted-for-depersoning-and-mit-eviction-over-defense-of-minsky/ << Qntra -- Richard Stallman Targeted For Depersoning And MIT Eviction Over Defense Of Minsky

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in lulz BingoBoingo might appreciate, asciilifeform was clearing , i shit thee not, jungle, w/ machete

BingoBoingo: I remember when finally, after a couple years of terraforming, the jungle corner of mom's yard was rendered mowerable.

asciilifeform: 'Motherboard has obtained a copy of the email thread, but has censored the names of its participants besides Stallman. ' << bonus lulz

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1935983 << like I say to the 20somethings at work, NOT ENOUGH CONTEXT TO DO ANYTHING BUT KNOW YOUR EMOTIONAL STATE, about which I don't care. jfw get at me and give it a try while I'm at battlestation so I can see wtf. also next time say how you're attempting so some amount of useful activity can take place async

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 00:25:35 lobbes: trinque: seems like this fella was having issues registering his key http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=UFHE

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 02:06:51 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, standard wasn't ~properly~ described. standard was described at fucking all, i don't need to explain the difference between your logger which diana_coman 's running now and phf's alleged logger which, for all anyone knows, consists of one mechanical turk who meanwhile got sad / ran away.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 00:31:02 asciilifeform: trinque: cuz we're both recluses .

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936059 << the curious thing to the squishy humans is how this man is mathematical instead.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 02:41:53 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935554 << it's not like it's fucking arbitrary, might as well ask sums to "moderate themselves", why not, write letter to factorial, "dear factorial, your results are computationalyl challenging, and it is unfair to most numbers above 10 or so that they can never feel safe in being followed up by an exclamation point like their single-digit bretheren. why won't

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936066 << I trolled the shit out of girl earlier, "babe, we're moving to Portland" and "What the fuck?! I'm not living in blue-haired hell!" panicpanicpanic before I started cackling. I think I'll be ok.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 02:46:27 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935561 << unlike phf, holding a torch of oneitis for some pantsuit chick that likely couldn't pick him out of a line-up, i should hope the texan has enough fucking sense to actually manage his household as his own.

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936099 << couldn't be more behind this. if nothing else, you learn whether anyone else has gravity worth a sparrow's fart.

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936114 << I'm thinking let the owner of chan set his/her threshold of voice, whatcha think?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:11:35 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, might still have to make soem kind of two-tiered system, because im not going to either unrate most everyone i have rated now nor let any and all talk. so i guess ima have two keysets ? nfi.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 04:15:00 diana_coman: if you say it's not any and all to talk, the q is : who to talk?

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936168 << I've been long curious when. If mp wanted to be Stalin, he'd already be, or so the derp texan's opinion goes.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 05:10:06 mircea_popescu: also, comparison with iliterate peasant / highwaty robber's bound to break down at SOME fucking point.

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-11#1935524 << sure in theory; what do you know about ilb.ru that makes it distinguishable from when I made the snapshot?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 04:08:46 dorion: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934639 << I came across http://bbgentoo.ilb.ru/ , which appears to do a decent job of preserving distfiles. e.g. has nearly entire php-4.x series, except ~actual weightlifter~. even has php 2 and 3 tarballs. there is also what appears to be a portage tree dated 2011-01-31. I downloaded, but haven't yet cracked it open.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 07:33:25 ave1: So I'm working on genesis of gcc and the second test build is running. First failed, I expect some more failures before done.

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936203 << I intend to badger you about hardware p until silenced by brick wall. what load now?

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 12:27:44 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936099 << this also imho good idea. tho afaik none of the other castles carry enuff load yet to make voicetronic model appealing there

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936229 << lol, the dude's 40 something, not 80. and yet, a-fucking-men.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 14:52:11 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936160 << verily. Furthermore, the inescapable truth is that one day mircea_popescu will shuffle off this mortal coil. Why anyone would not want to eat as much of his brain while he is around is completely unfathomable to me, especially since he is willingly offering it to eat! The Republic will one day need to stand on its own feet and produce

trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936245 << heh, my parents had the good sense to shove me out the airlock re: student debt. So I had the good sense to not take any.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 19:03:20 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in lulz BingoBoingo might appreciate, asciilifeform was clearing , i shit thee not, jungle, w/ machete

asciilifeform: btw trinque ( and possibly BingoBoingo ) : what's the barest starvation tooling with which weld aluminum ?

asciilifeform: ah, i was pretty certain that someone mentioned doing it, and was trinque . maybe that someone writes in.

asciilifeform: trinque: see, stock chasses are usually ~1mm mild steel. which welds ok w/ ordinary 1940s electrode style. but was thinking, for next batch, aluminum, lighter crate -> moar boxen

asciilifeform: somewhat oddly, perhaps, vs traditional comp-building culture , mechanical strength is needed, the crates are abused rather heavily by the porters ( last time BingoBoingo and asciilifeform had to straighten the 'ears' with hammers )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cost of renting tools there is such that makes moar sense to buy, if anyffin smaller than bulldozer, normally

asciilifeform: trinque: in theory , the long-sought 'pure gcc4 bringup' set could be in there.

trinque: on the subj of multi-channel deedbot, that already exists. I need to tweak the wot/voicing code a bit to support, but otherwise not so hard.

trinque: can the lords and ladies let me know if they're interested in such a thing, and if so I'll get cracking.

lobbes is currently not sure if should apply for official castlehood, on grounds that a) castle is currently deserted and b) technically I resigned from lordship about a month ago

lobbes: Of course I'm already regretting that resignation thinking I did that with my classic 'jumpy reasoning'; I think what I really needed was clarity, which comes from communication, which has been working pretty well so far.

trinque: you have your relationships, whatever they are, and you're peered into whomever else.

lobbes: hm, yeah I guess this makes sense. Sort of a "cross that bridge when come to it" type of deal