a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 22:39 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: megabux are not allotted by 'buttcount', you know this.
mircea_popescu: there's bonus points for the "right kind" of jobs - for instance hiring black people detracts from the fundamental racism of the entire scheme (really, why should schmuck be deemed entitled to "fair wage" because his mother dropped him on his head in new jersey rather than golania ?) and so it's + points etcetera.
deedbot: snowbound33 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: this is the forum of the most serene republic. and who might you be ?
snowbound33: I was invited here recently by someone online. I'm here under an anon account trying to figure out what it is, and if I will regret joining under my real freenode account
snowbound33: depends what /whois says about this account
snowbound33: yeah it me. I'm not aware of whatever discussion that is
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a whole pile of stuff. but no, i didn't think you wrote the book you reviewed.
snowbound33: no, sorry, I didn't write that article about the book. That was a guest post
snowbound33: I'll come back here at some point in the near future. I'm holding off for now, I want to set up a bouncer first if I'm going to be active in irc again
davout: well actually, the three revisions seem to reference the same vdiff.sh, which apparently works, but gives me some error messages
davout: so with the eventual goal of cleanly amputating the wallet off of TRB I'm kind of wondering what the best approach is here,
davout: either remove the wallet and everything that depends on it in one go (pretty much everything that uses keys stored by the client)
davout: or remove the dependencies one by one until removing the wallet is merely a "rm wallet.cpp" away
☟︎ davout: i've started by simply removing the signmessage and verifymessage functionality
davout: mostly as an exercise in vtronics
davout: getting a feel for the whole patch authoring process without touching anything very sensitive
davout: i suspect something's broken in my vdifftronics
mircea_popescu: davout even if the whole bundle is released in one go, it is probably best practice to do the snips one at a time in that many patches.
davout: probably easier to merge multiple patches into one than unmerge a hairball
mircea_popescu: let the job of merging be done later, that's the idea. eventually as the chains get long and review has progressed significantly, people can rebase multiple patches into one.
mircea_popescu: this activity would be the v-equivalent of "stable release"
mircea_popescu: and in other news, some dude apparently goes and pours aluminum into fire anthills, sells the resulting casts.
davout: probably catches lots of dust too
davout: kinda bijective with "let's put a wallet in bitcoind", catches dust too
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, at some point someone thought "hey, i know, we'll wear shit on our heads and go break people's doors". the obvious "then people will wear shit on their heads break your door" however got handwaved, because there's nothing specialer than a special snowflake.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is a police station for, other than l'attaque d'une bande cagoulee ?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2014-02-17 19:02 asciilifeform: 'some demented people in gulag during the years of the cult, for their amusement, would select women from the contigent of 'enemies of the people' and for 'some sin' sit them down upon anthills.' bottom: 'young women who refused to become lovers of their executioners in gulag would be sat upon anthills, tied to trees, 'for the mosquitoes and ants.' sometimes a pipe would be inserted, made from a reed or a birc
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 10:29 davout: or remove the dependencies one by one until removing the wallet is merely a "rm wallet.cpp" away
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 12:41 mircea_popescu: what the fuck is a police station for, other than l'attaque d'une bande cagoulee ?
mircea_popescu: when i die i'll be shown the list of everyone's favourite trilemas and spend the rest of the afterlife in shock.
mircea_popescu: and in shocking today, trump has ~madonna~ apologizing and complaining about "being taken out of context". fucking madonna.
mircea_popescu: i read through the english speaking press wrt trump's first week. qntra is by far the better source.
mircea_popescu: the shedding of 500k federal jobs in dc is underway, by the way. people are making financial arrangements, such as getting out of mortgages.
mircea_popescu: economy was pretty strong under clinton by comparison.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "The most notable public opposition came from Senate Armed Service Committee Chairman John McCain, who promised to block any such move. Senator McCain’s objections were primarily procedural and not substantive (i.e., he was upset he learned about the recommendation almost second-hand at the hearing, instead of by official channels)."
mod6: <+asciilifeform>
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608062 << that looks like an ordinary unix diff << yup. and if you got an error when running vdiff, some of us have run into this on various linux boxes. iirc the solution was to install a newer version of gnu-awk.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: however many. the woman's barren owing to advanced age and abundant curetages in youth, there's nothing coming out her rotten eggs regardless.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i read through the english speaking press wrt trump's first week. qntra is by far the better source. << ty
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: similar thing happened under clinton, 'brac' << BRAC took "Jobs in congressional districts" pissed off congress.
trinque: he's going to have a blast
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
davout: mod6: ty, will try the gnu-awk thing
davout: asciilifeform: to me trb just has to provide "return txouts spendable by arbitrary set of addresses", "add this transaction to mempool"
davout: rest can go in external proggy
davout: and just like vtrons, everyone should be able to write its own easily
ben_vulpes: davout: trb cannot exist in a state where "user must supply code for x"
davout: asciilifeform: can use same openssl as trb
davout: i'm really not sold on this "has to be able to alpha centauri" requirement
davout: it really depends on what you mean by "reference client"
ben_vulpes: davout: why would you even consider releasing a patch that leaves trb unable to cook and transmit transactions? keep it on your table where it's useful to you.
davout: is it like the platinum "one meter" buried somewhere for "reference" or is it "the bitcoin implementation that is the reference because it's sane, it works, and can be used in production"
trinque: ^ would be entirely reasonable
davout: asciilifeform: i never said this wasn't on the table
davout: yeah, really not very hard to be in agreement here
davout: but also appreciate the fact that i'm a fine position to know what is painful, retarded, and needs to die in bitcoin when it comes to issuing transaction
☟︎ davout: asciilifeform: i don't think you understand what i'm after, what i'm trying to get to is "sane and explicit knobs" instead of "here use this $magicfee"
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 18:53 davout: but also appreciate the fact that i'm a fine position to know what is painful, retarded, and needs to die in bitcoin when it comes to issuing transaction
davout: i'm really not sure where this "no equivalent replacement" comes from
trinque: gotta define for example how cut-wallet keeps balance
davout: trinque: wallet has keys, asks for unspent outputs to bitcoin client, deduces balance
davout: asciilifeform: there's a difference between "not yet" and "never"
trinque: asciilifeform: gotta define the cut to define the replacement
trinque: guy's entirely ready to discuss the thing
trinque: and you're making it out to be something he never argued
trinque: this whole thead could've been "I will not sign the excision unless it brings also the replacement wallet" ... "k" ... fin
trinque: I can't find davout saying he refused to provide such a thing in his patch
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 18:47 davout: not yet
thestringpuller: davout: wallet has keys, asks for unspent outputs to bitcoin << don't you have to be "watching" an address while indexing to get this info?
davout: thestringpuller: UTXO set is ~2gb tops, indexing might be nice but necessary to scan for UTXOs that match a given set of addresses, also the wallet part can cache them if that particular wallet is the only one able to actually spend those UTXIs
☟︎☟︎ trinque: there was a decent thread on how 'wallet' end up being 'arbitrary declared index of declared addresses'
davout: trinque: text files with private keys sounds like the sane approach to me
trinque: were you going to interrogate the utxos every block or something?
trinque: now I see what lacks definition here.
davout: asciilifeform: tbh i haven't measured it, but scanning 2gb of ram shouldn't really take that long
davout: also the UTXO set might very well decrease
davout: asciilifeform: yeah well, if we're going to debate what "we don't have yet" we're not going to get very far
thestringpuller: is there a way to scrape the UTXO set in TRB or do you have to do that manually as of now?
davout: asciilifeform: take 20 UTXOs spend them in one go to a single address, poof! UTXO set has shrunk
davout: thestringpuller: you're asking me what trajectory i'm going to take at 200mph for that turn, i'm at the point where i'm still wondering how to turn the goddamn car on
davout: asciilifeform: a sane wallet would make it very easy to avoid dust fragmentation
thestringpuller: davout: no. I'm just curious if there is a way to scrape UTXO's now, cause for my wallet tron I'm scraping blocks themselves. Def not O(n). (don't laugh)
davout: asciilifeform: granted, is it ok with you if i give it a goddamn shot?
davout: asciilifeform: granted
davout: but appreciate that i'm a fucking noob and i need to have something to get started, at least with the toolchain, not that it has to make official release until it's actually done you know
davout: thestringpuller: i'm not sure what you mean by "scraping the UTXO" ?
thestringpuller: i'm using the blockchain itself to get the UTXO for forming new transaction when creating raw TX with bitcoin, this requires searching teh blockchain or using ben_vulpes tool
davout: asciilifeform: well for example, the "remove signmessage and verifymessage" patch could very well be considered ready for production, it cuts something, not something anyone sane would actually depend on
davout: thestringpuller: i see, currently it's really not practical
davout: asciilifeform: my emulated mp would answer that a dork that signed that way can't possibly sign something important
trinque: I don't see that it'd be a terrible sin to have multiple branches descending from current trb
trinque: one of which strips the thing bare; another which is the reference
ben_vulpes: perhaps a low-dough point: vpatches ensure that functionality will always be available, regardless of weight of "current" version
☟︎ trinque: the former might help clear up the latter
davout: asciilifeform: archaeologists can build a verifymessage-capable trb, couldn't they?
thestringpuller: davout: that's why I think the UTXO probing is interesting. Easier to search ~2GB and ~100GB for the information you want.
trinque: I am aware of that, or what I said next would make no sense
davout: what version of gnu-awk are asciilifeform, trinque et al. using to have a usable vdiff.sh ?
trinque: asciilifeform: consider our conversation about the openbsd patches in another castle
davout: asciilifeform: the trb tree has a "continuity-preserving" mission, not "current trb official version"
ben_vulpes: davout: consider #!/bin/bash and set -e to make the thing die if any subprocesses return non-zero
davout: asciilifeform: with this kind of reasoning we'd end up keeping the "accounting" feature around
trinque: I don't think it's a sin for davout to go slashing and cauterizing in one direction, meanwhile reference client proceeds in another
trinque: and eventually there's a process of regrinding and so on
davout: asciilifeform: well, if you want to "keep everything" you end up keeping everything
trinque: "nothing but this particular arrangement of driftwood counts as actual reference trb"
trinque: there are goals at odds here. to fix the nightmare that is current trb, gotta start slashing til you have something that's able to be comprehended
davout: asciilifeform: well, maybe for forensic purpose you want to open up an accounts-enabled legacy wallet? i don't know, sounds equally likely as "want to check signature some derp made in weird ways during ancient times"
ben_vulpes: please no backwards compatibility holy shit
trinque: this ends up meaning slashing probably everything that doesn't keep the current network protocol running
davout: and i really don't understand how keeping stuff around is sane when the functionality is an operator knob-turn away anyway
trinque: it'd probably be better to be hollering at a patch than all this
davout: maybe we can have trb-classic then trollface.jpg
davout: asciilifeform: we're talking about verifymessage and signmessage
davout: if you ~must~ verify one of those sigs you pull up a trb that can ~fin~
davout: asciilifeform: you're conflating signatures on txes with signatures on arbitrary messages
davout: it's in the "bells and whistles" box, not the "hot wire functionality" one
trinque: I don't think anyone brought his cock into the matter
davout: asciilifeform: no, was this comparison ever contemplated?
trinque: you gotta communicate more on-subj man; this is exasperating.
trinque: guy was using the sign-message as an example for a smaller cut than the wallet
trinque: and now we're on the n-th conversation fork
davout: asciilifeform: to me there is and remains a difference in kind between "the thing that defines what money is" and "the particulars of your personal wallet"
davout: the way i see things, the "fee estimation" code must die
☟︎ davout: not "be moved in external proggy", it must. die.
davout: wallet tells you what coin you can spend, you select the particular outputs, you define the outputs, it may warn you if the implied fee is ridiculous but that's it
davout: asciilifeform: if trb provides sane endpoints the wallet can be written in whatever floats anyone's boat
ben_vulpes: i am still not sold on moving the wallet outside of what compiles as "trb"
davout: i'm not really sure whether transaction signature itself should stay in trb or be extracted out
davout: ben_vulpes: can compile as separate binaries
ben_vulpes: now /that/ i am sold on slicing from the node.
ben_vulpes: davout: what /currently/ compiles as the single binary "trb"
trinque: does sbcl also not only have to be able to interpret / compile common lisp; it must also provide a UI for you to generate statements in it?
ben_vulpes: i don't see the benefits to the increase of binary compilation targets to 3 from the one extant.
trinque: for someone with such unwieldy metaphors, allow me that one. whether it was an RI was not my point
davout: ben_vulpes: but even if separate binary i see this more as a "reference wallet" in the same way the "reference miner" demonstrates what a miner does, but isn't actually used by anyone professionnally issuing transactions
trinque: nothing helps me generate a valid lisp statement for sbcl other than I pop one in
trinque: and it tells me "fuck you" or "yum"
trinque: it doesn't have miles of hair just in case you wanted help writing a loop, or ...
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: no argument, but i do not see the point of moving output indexer into a separate bin given that it needs a live blockchain anyways.
davout: ben_vulpes: yeh, not that the miner-snipping doesn't itch
ben_vulpes: davout: there are many parts of a kalash that are not strictly ergonomic.
trinque: look man, your condescension switch is jammed on.
davout: asciilifeform: trb is about keeping the core, prb is about "moar featurez"
trinque: must be right next to the "fork topic" button
trinque: the wallet does in no way define the operation of the protcol or validating blocks
trinque: "are you secret wreckers" ?
trinque: the wallet merely generates inputs trb will validate or not independently of it
trinque: the guy already said ok to shipping a txn maker with the patch!!
davout: asciilifeform: i have no particular interest in indulging strawmen
ben_vulpes: phf: may i have a copy of your log backups?
ben_vulpes: phf: and on this, the third consecutive day of asking, would you kindly acknowledge receipt?
☟︎☟︎ jhvh1: asciilifeform: phf was last seen in #trilema 1 day, 22 hours, 3 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <phf> so if you have a system that you implemented fast, but it's slow, but you know how to now slowly make it fast, you have a strategy. if you're chasing corner cases, running a profiler and get mostly flat distribution, writing in special cases, etc. you don't have one
ben_vulpes: unless i misremember, the man is in the habit of at least mentioning prolonged absences.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: which, subject to opsec constraints, is a fine thing to do.
ben_vulpes: was this before or after taking responsibility for critical infrastructure?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i can scrape btcbase as well as the next feller.
ben_vulpes: is it not bouncer logs -> html transform?
Framedragger: nothing pretty. if any use, could give tarball of bouncer logs
ben_vulpes: i *have* put some thought into this project, asciilifeform.
Framedragger: bouncer is actually quite nice, as phf said; that's what he had before, he wanted db for xrefs etc
ben_vulpes: yes well i may as well just scrape btcbase at that point asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: no, i'm ready to eat the whole wad.
Framedragger: (i personally like the pink highlight, it's immediately noticeable but still readable)
Framedragger: asciilifeform: yeah pure primary green, crt, i figued! hah
ben_vulpes: i have very little appetite for futzing with css.
ben_vulpes: am wasting time fixing the wp comment threading shitshow already.
ben_vulpes: but the use of a friend's backhoe to put in a septic system to replace the outhouse.
ben_vulpes: but yes, fix the javascript only to find that it never worked in the first place, and the replytocom query parameter doesn't set the parent_id variable apparently at all
ben_vulpes: sure, whatever. geotherm heated seat even.
ben_vulpes: fact of the matter is that wp 2.7 does ~everything a person needs from a personal cms afaict.
ben_vulpes: except of course threaded comments, and this and that and the other thing.
☟︎ trinque: anything touching the web is an outhouse
trinque: be ready to fill with dirt and dig another, and everything will be fine
ben_vulpes: outhouses and trenchfoot. that's webdev!
Framedragger: i'm still preferring
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-15#1503181 but granted, don't have a working "moderated but without captcha" comments solution. best i can think of is, write very light backend service to handle comment post requests, store them somewhere sensible, allow operator to accept/deny comments (could be flat text files)
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-07-15 10:31 Framedragger: regarding LAMP stacks and blog software: static site generators are there for a reason. significantly smaller codebases and attack surfaces cf. wordpress. just sayin'.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: you missed the good old days when i exported raw html from an org file
ben_vulpes: eventually grew to over sixty seconds per export run.
Framedragger: why's that bad? i understand if the 'time it takes to render' function is exponential in some way or another, but if linear growth and less than say 30 min - what of it, really
ben_vulpes: and i wanted comments, but did not want to bake myself further into an ossified tower of software retardation.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: because it is wholly unacceptable that i not be able to see the effects of changing one tag in the source files immediately.
Framedragger: that does break the 'change, see immediate effects' loop, hm.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: for all of the time i have spent losing my mind in radioactive webtech mines i a) do not like the domain b) have zero desire to build half-baked solutions when ~fully baked ones exist
Framedragger: re. a), i totally hear ya. i mean, who does. re. b), yes i can see that.
ben_vulpes: logs and search will at the least provide interesting lessons in postgres design and optimization. writing my own disqus, not so much.
☟︎ Framedragger: on the other hand, i could see the latter being *really* useful for many. granted, neither you or me are altruists.
ben_vulpes: it's not even an altruism thing, it's a "do you serve a churning vat of cockroaches or kings with names"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: on the "oh noes apple broke more shit" thread, not only do pageup/down not work, but apple's own messenger wastes all the CPU that "Slack" left on the table
trinque: jobs may have actually killed someone with his hands if he saw the "o look mother I put the apple watch inside the mac"
mod6: <+davout> mod6: ty, will try the gnu-awk thing << ok, gl. let us know how it goes. i've had this issue before myself. i ~think~ that's what I did to resolve it on my african box.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notrly. isn't it more fearsome in $trangelang ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 18:04 asciilifeform: but in latest lulz,
http://archive.is/8G35m >> 'O’Grady was mistakenly identified this week as a Secret Service agent (also named Kerry O’Grady) who is under investigation for posting a statement on Facebook that appeared to indicate she preferred jail over being shot and killed for President Trump.'
mircea_popescu: this #1 disease of the failed female, "if i were your wife i'd poison your coffee."
mircea_popescu: bitch, you're nobody's wife and there's a reason for that.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 18:51 asciilifeform: it'd be one thing if davout proposed the cut ~in tandem with~ a standalone walletron. even if it were made entirely out of the old one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but there's no clean way currently for me to replace old-wallet with davout-wallet. so in that sense, modularize the wallet out of the code.
ben_vulpes: wait no i don't, why is tx-gen box to be offlined and not the signing box?
ben_vulpes: "coinbases" in this post means something rather different from what i've come to know them as eg the block subsidy
ben_vulpes: let us sweep the floor then, and settle the semantics. "unspent transaction out" is now "coinbase" according to mircea_popescu ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:00 davout: thestringpuller: UTXO set is ~2gb tops, indexing might be nice but necessary to scan for UTXOs that match a given set of addresses, also the wallet part can cache them if that particular wallet is the only one able to actually spend those UTXIs
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes an "uxto" discusses an aspect of a coinbase.
ben_vulpes: i am under the impression that a coinbase would not need to be injected, but that the individual utxos do need to be.
mircea_popescu: all coins, in the sense of agglomerations of satoshi, exist as descendents of an original block subsidy, and in that sense ARE coinbases ; much like electrons or photons are wave functions. they manifest verifiably in certain points, as "unspent transaction outputs" ; muych like waveform collapses. they interact with matter, in certain ways,this is called a transaction.
mircea_popescu: now this ontological preoccupation is of no great practical importance, which is why people don't generally gas past "hey it's an uxto"
mircea_popescu: much like nobody seriously bothers to say "the wavefunction that is office chair"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the defragging is an antientalpy movement.
mircea_popescu: technically speaking sticking people back into their mother's cunts to get two people out of a litter of 12 also costs the same.
mircea_popescu: as time wears on, more and more tinier and tinier bits of coin carry irreducible meaning, and can't be defragged
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform think of evolution of holy roman empire. currently, block of thousand btc all carry the same meaning, "we belong to holy roman emperor".
mircea_popescu: three generations later, all of saxony is 500 duchies, princely domains etc the size of your yard.
mircea_popescu: from the pov of the network, glueing together is technically speaking a loss.
mircea_popescu: of "value" in a very novel, post-bitcoin, deeply information-theoretic interpretation of the term.
mircea_popescu: tell you what, to the stupid cunts getting pregnant at 13 and failing to learn how to wash or twerk by 16, the little details of their dirty interiors are relevant.
mircea_popescu: yes, but as they progress so does the bitcoin fragment.
mircea_popescu: anyway. war in this sense, as in napoleon invading, is a loss of information. ie, library burning.
mircea_popescu: depends on factors and things but as degree of magnitude it's there.
mircea_popescu: so yes, if we aim to go from "all coinbases = 1 satoshi" through merger to "all coinbases = 2 satoshi" we're looking at a whole shitload of blocks.
mircea_popescu: this is the only part of the system that's truly badly designed. the node/miner thing, meh, that's iffy.
mircea_popescu: but this one ... well, the numbers actually don't work.
mircea_popescu: note that the per-block value is liable to stay ~constant ; it certainly varies less than the price of bitcoin for instance. so those satoshi will always be worth a lot in fiat terms anyway
mircea_popescu: anyway, the issue of fees hopefully limits the smallest practical unit to maybe 1k or so, which blessfully shaves 3 zeros from the problem, and at the right end
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gold is worthless for the exact reason goldbugs/idiots think it better than bitcoin. no scaling, because anchored to irrelevancy
davout: seems to me like defragging could be a thing given the correct tools
davout: i make pretty much all of my txes by hand and fragmentation is something i try to avoid as much as possibru
davout: and in this regard, doing-by-hand certainly has value, in the sense that i don't end up with dust
mircea_popescu: davout the problem discussed is where the most serene republic spans 85 million stars and a trillion planets and everyone involved holds a few satoshi and ten thousand times more slaves.
davout: and whenever i do i manage to glue it to sane txen in order for it not to be dust anymore
davout: mircea_popescu: i can see that too, not much that can be done though
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is like thinking if universities stopped stupidifying girls tomorrow you'd get good service at the diner.
mircea_popescu: davout the thing that SHOULD be done about it is make it work in such a way it doesn't choke in its own fumes. not that i know how to do that.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (and such not knowing is a large part of what moderates any interest i might have in greenlighting i-b work_
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did i tell you about the led crotchless "underwear" ?
mircea_popescu: it's actually pretty cool ; can't possibly miss even in the dark. also cunt looks good in it.
davout: mircea_popescu: what's i-b ?
mircea_popescu: davout ideal bitcoin. a putative v2.0 / replacement / fork.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, all the ones i've seen use normal 1.5v watch battery.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-31 18:02 mircea_popescu: until the coinbase halves, you can only use 50 btc ; then 25 and 12.5 etc.
mircea_popescu: still, none of this solves the fundamental problem, which is : as more and more people get involved, the cost of reporting each transaction to everyone else balloons.
mircea_popescu: yes, property is functionally as well as fundamentally "this is mine which means it's not yours nor yours nor yours nor - i see you there hiding in the back, yours either!"
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, once the headcount crosses millions into billiosn, well... forgetaboutit.
a111: Logged on 2016-03-05 18:53 asciilifeform: ditto address-generation from mining.
ben_vulpes: i never successfully worked through how transacting would work
ben_vulpes: is there some amount of "mine for privkey" involved?
ben_vulpes: "address-generation from mining" literally does not compute for me unless there's some amount of "pubkey hash must meet this criteria" a la bitcoin
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:10 asciilifeform: there are historical signatures floating about, and one might wish to verify them
mircea_popescu: in my extensive practice as a major economic agent i never either wanted to or did bother to verify one.
mircea_popescu: "signatures" has as much business being part of bitcoin as sink has being part of car.
ben_vulpes: heat flux through butt on gold toilet turns out -- not pleasant
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how do you square this "someone mighta" with "nothing for allcomers", and in particular "a specific thing for nobody"?
mircea_popescu: i think he was just being contrarian, isn't seriously holding the position.
mircea_popescu: it's a cheap and welcome cut, reduces the codebase, that and the idiotic "alert messages" are certainly next to snip
mircea_popescu: the thing gavin thought constitutes the basis of his importance.
mircea_popescu: omfg the original code is priviledged what part of this is hard to grasp!!1
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you mind ? i'm having a quality moment here with the alf.
ben_vulpes: i excised my humor subsystems last year
mircea_popescu: well there is that but nevertheless, guy said plainly he's noob tring to learn.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 22:17 asciilifeform: i killed those right after baking the genesis
mircea_popescu: i gotta see this wonder, ch display possibly one of the more atrocious
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes dawg you aware your articles go in this 160px column ?
ben_vulpes: i will not defensively css against the width at which archive.is renders websites
ben_vulpes: There were already 188 screenshot requests for cascadianhacker.com today.
ben_vulpes: Please create a user account for more screenshot quota.
mircea_popescu: Browser shots Sorry service is down for maintanence << dude they're not even trying anymore, the web's deader than shannen doherty's career
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:12 ben_vulpes: perhaps a low-dough point: vpatches ensure that functionality will always be available, regardless of weight of "current" version
ben_vulpes: i didn't know anyone browsed the web with browsers anyways, i thought the en vogue thing to do was just to read the source and sort of intuit where the boxes went
ben_vulpes: guessing at definitions from context, but with all the excitement of html css and js
mircea_popescu: i thought you wrote all this shit on a touchpad anyway.
ben_vulpes: highly prehensile, or prezhensile as the tenderqueers would say
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why the fuck are you so obstructive anyway
mircea_popescu: in the time everyone spent arguing with various phantoms they could have actually done all the work that was therein contemplated.
mircea_popescu: the two items discussed were "modularize wallet" and "remove btc address signatures". they're in the 2-5 hour range for a very careful single engineer.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at issue is your very poor (through being inflexible) best scenario/worst scenario context switching. so : it is the habit of engineers to consider the worst scenario when building a house, which is how houses end up 3.5x structurally stronger than thyey need to be. because holy hell, what if rocks fall or the ground moves or there's very wet snow or some idiot gets confused and parks his car on your roof. howev
mircea_popescu: er, when discussing things people do, especially their plans, a best scenario is to be employed, becuause people aren't fucking amelia bedelia and if they are we want to find out.
mircea_popescu: it's safe to assume he's not about to do something stupiud in all the places it's not exhaustively clear what he actually means to do. and if he does do something stupid all the better, we get to laugh at him later.
mircea_popescu: people aren't objects and vice versa, you gotta context switch.
mircea_popescu: everything in the us is 2.2 these days. but whatever the actual value might be.
mircea_popescu: do you have any fucking idea how many bridges we crossed when we got to them to get here ?
mircea_popescu: there is some merit to this view. not as much as you imagine though. gavin was there, in 2012, and giving "talks" to the nsa, in 2011, and wondering out loud if that's certainly not why satoshi stopped talking to him.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> make macs great again <+ben_vulpes> install openbsd on them << :D
mircea_popescu: perhaps your understanding of incentive is not so strictly correct. pedophile who primes 9yo girl is not necessarily wrong in evaluating her sexual value a few years before it customarily becoems apparent.
mircea_popescu: and plenty of people knew it would take off, which is how we're here.
mircea_popescu: now, this excursion in unrelated scary things complete, let's get back to it : give people the benefit of the doubt. if they fuck it up it's their problem not yours.
ben_vulpes: moreover there is no harm in bringing a patch for discussion, and all of this durm and strang will discourage "patches alf doesn't like" even if just in the patcher's mind
mircea_popescu: consider the fine case of mod6 's vtron since he said something. so he built a vtron, then later we decided didn't like how it works, he put the time in to understand the thing, fix it... all this happened because he made the first one ; and wouldn't have happened if we were just sitting 6months ago holding dicks and discussing it theoretically.
mircea_popescu: it's always way the fuck better to say "i don't like what you did because" than to say "i don't like what i think it might be the case you say you intend to do because".
mircea_popescu: there's no need for that tight coupling of intent anyway, not like we're trying to drive through an intersection here.
mircea_popescu: the more time people spend ~actually reading~ the same piece of code, the better. "i might have read it so it's as good as read" open source bs doesn't qualify here.
mircea_popescu: piece of code A which has been read 8 times by 5 peoiple is thereby better, no questions, more valuable and more useful, than the SAME EXACT piece of code A read by its author alone.
mircea_popescu: nobody's forcing anyone, they just get gently encouraged.
mircea_popescu: at some point the pile of chain overweighs the disinclination to read code.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:27 davout: the way i see things, the "fee estimation" code must die
ben_vulpes: aaaand we've exhausted the wp stack :D
ben_vulpes: everything must be free, including 401k contributions BUT NOT SPEECH
ben_vulpes: on the other hand "b-b-b-but not real retirement plan because no employer match!"
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608353 << it'll very likely stay there forever, for the simple reason that a bitcoin miner that's proper is worth money so can't be given away for free, and if it's going to be improper then alf's 2012 argument prevails and just keep the old one.
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:32 ben_vulpes: davout: reference miner is still in trb bin.
ben_vulpes: you f'r instance can't seem to get colander right
ben_vulpes: if you accept the thesis, it ain't a hook it's a free meal.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:49 ben_vulpes: phf: and on this, the third consecutive day of asking, would you kindly acknowledge receipt?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: make no mistakes, i bite zero hooks myself
ben_vulpes: "being of sound mind and body, i'm spending my money as fast as i can"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i dun see the hook, have staff on call 24/7. no harem, granted, but "ride or die bitch" worth a million hausfraus.
mircea_popescu: buy : 1 month rent in slum ; 1 typewriter ; 1 stack of paper ; 1 sugar bowl, fill with pure cocaine ; 1 medium dildo.
mircea_popescu: use the dust for lube, write your life's novel / memoirs / whatever.
ben_vulpes: or good old fashioned frontier bride, why all the haet
mircea_popescu: anyway. i'm not proposing your life choices are invalid. i am saying the form of the argument is broken. it's easy to pretend like you know better than fish while not being fish. in point of fact fish does as best he can
mircea_popescu: (you're invited to go fishing, discover fish will eat your bait and not bite)
mircea_popescu: did i recount the famous episode of my mother fishing btw ?
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:55 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: Framedragger oughta have same l0gz, let's ask him.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure he published a log backup url somewhere.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: perhaps under explained in "if you accept the thesis" where <thesis> is entire stack of usgola. yes, 401kholder seeks to eat cheese, turn around put money into house do all the clever tricks with it. also many don't! and many like myself look at the whole thing as a stupid intellectual complexity trap not worth entertaining.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you also don't have the sort of job they do. what's office drone in heart of usg do, something TO STAND OUT ? holy shit.
ben_vulpes: although i suppose enough do it that none of them risk ostracization for it now
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i am i shit you not considering moving the brood back into the family domicile in 2019
mircea_popescu: the funny thing being that nonsense converges. "civil" and "common" law systems end up giving almost identical "solutions" to the same problems notwithstanding they start from opposite priors. similarily, life of usg mandarin is very much like life of say japanese company man.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform rd is definitionally not heart of usg. try "health and human services expert analyst"
mircea_popescu: most chemists active in research today would greatly benefit from having half of brain cut out replaced with programmer.
mircea_popescu: their fucking problems are "how to put this into excel"
mircea_popescu: send them all back to fucking school, 90% of their time ends up spent doing insane chewing gum and spittle equivalent of unix pipes.
mircea_popescu: and most research anything have the numeracy of a stripper.
mircea_popescu: no fucking concept of analysis, i'm not discussing hyperpeels or any nuttery, just merely the concept of hey, if it's a function i can derive it, find the inflections, DRAW IT. yes with the fucking draughtsman kit.
mircea_popescu: no serious familiarity with statistics, nothing even remotely useful.
mircea_popescu: no ~serious familiarity~. just the average came-with-apartment bipedal cat's "hey, open fridge door, take out food it's how food works"
mircea_popescu: yes well. by the time "scientist" is unable to ~comprehend~ what the fuck the numbers say about his data, i don't care what fucking calisthenics he does.
mircea_popescu: if i wanted to arab i'd be in cairo, they have fine mosqs.
mircea_popescu: it's fucking annoying, too, "dude, whenever you increase your dataset your correlation goes down" "so should pick better data, right ?"
mircea_popescu: yea einstein, you got yourself a nobel prize in global warming in the making there.
mircea_popescu: they insulted his ancestors or something, i dun recall.
ben_vulpes: no such nasa makes sugar rockets that launch sideways
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 20:12 ben_vulpes: except of course threaded comments, and this and that and the other thing.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 20:16 Framedragger: i'm still preferring
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-15#1503181 but granted, don't have a working "moderated but without captcha" comments solution. best i can think of is, write very light backend service to handle comment post requests, store them somewhere sensible, allow operator to accept/deny comments (could be flat text files)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes. you are asking yourself to come up with a number which will be larger than the largest number of nested comments people may wish to make. if you're going to think like this might as well become a c++ specialist.
mircea_popescu: "if i allocate what i think it should be the program crashes"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which is the problem. if it's gonna happen at all, then why not have it happen right off.
ben_vulpes: what means fortranism in this context?
mircea_popescu: he didn't want to say naggum-c because i said it already.
ben_vulpes: > "is renewable energy news at risk of becoming clickbait" bwaha
mircea_popescu: yeah, and derpy "liberal" chicks who don't know how to dress or be useful in the house are in danger of becoming sought after.
ben_vulpes: yaok i get it. wp nesting limit even existing boggles my mind
ben_vulpes: threaded replies is new to php devs? have never been on mailing lists?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it can't not exist because monitor is finite and it stupidly decided to nest by magic number allignment.
mircea_popescu: so if "nested = 12 pixels" then you get a limit of 100 or so.
mircea_popescu: "but what is monitor size ?" "dunno, best add a js lib"
ben_vulpes: i am offended at the inadequacy of everything in this world
mircea_popescu: if computers-were-magic(tm) then the thing would produce a virtual infinite space and the viewport would be dragged around across it, so you could follow diagonally
ben_vulpes: the only thing that even halfway works is cunt.
ben_vulpes: "ben_vulpes in for the layup, mircea_popescu with the duuuuuunk!"
mircea_popescu: get up an' down an' layup all' around, move your ass to the left move your ass to the right...
ben_vulpes: isn't that what you call that thing in basketball where one dood drives in and puts the ball up for someone else to net?
ben_vulpes: or did he grow up on comics and not spoarts
ben_vulpes: i would say "fight me irl" but you're the one #t denizen i don't think i'd have reasonable odds against
ben_vulpes: entirely unrelatedly, ms beat the street
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 21:09 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: pgup/pgdown work on the box i have here
ben_vulpes: looks like apple's in for another lost decade
ben_vulpes: you're absurdly tall and made out like a bandit in post-ussr ro
mircea_popescu: drives teh wyminz nuts also, they work out till they drop, i never do, then i can you know, lift one in one arm and for some incomprehensible reason i got biceps the thickenss of their thighs. "BRO!!!" "hey, i got testosterone, it's great."
☟︎ ben_vulpes: i only recently realized that i needed to be doing the heavy lifting on family outings
ben_vulpes: yeah let me just *oof* move this *hrunph* truck over *hurk* here baby