tmsr - Log 2016-09-13

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#1127 << actually i think it's some chick by the name ingrid mouth

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [23:43:25] <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1540771 << dollars to doughnuts that was hans rickheit, my favourite living artist.

hanbot: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160911/#220 << moar like retribution for that "elena" monstrosimovie, an exhilarating tale of beige and waiting.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-11: [14:50:25] * Framedragger wonders if it's the trilema-following bot army. will check

hanbot: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160911/#226 << i updated it a week ago. possibly there are other guides floating around that still use $ ?

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-11: [14:53:41] <mircea_popescu> hm i thought the wiki got updated.

asciilifeform: sooooo it'd seem like we're pretty close to gossipd schematic

asciilifeform: imho.

asciilifeform: the kind that includes O(1) noise rejection AND repudiatronics.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, trinque, Framedragger, et al ^

asciilifeform: https://madfileformatscience.garymcgath.com/2016/09/08/libtiff-offline << in unrelated lulz:

asciilifeform: 'The Libtiff library, which has been a reference implementation of TIFF for many years, has disappeared from the Internet. It was located at remotesensing.org, a domain whose owner apparently was willing to host it without having any close connection to the project. The domain fell into someone else’s hands, and the content changed completely, breaking all links to Libtiff material.'

asciilifeform: 'For the moment, there’s no primary source for Libtiff on the Web.'

asciilifeform: poor heathens.

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does your trb node's memory usage grow unboundedly? ☟︎☟︎

BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: mine holds rather steady between 1 and 1.1 GB, but different libc and other shit.

ben_vulpes: i've been running this one for 9 days straight (previous box would OOM-kill the process every 2 days or so), and it's currently holding 3846M RES

BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Restart every few weeks to back up blockchain. Is not trb, but other on Openbsd with trb shit bolted onto sides

mod6: ben_vulpes: my test node has ~4gb of ram, it usually hangs out around the same, ~3.5G of ram for bitcoin, then after like a month it ooms. then needs to be restarted.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540863 << oddly enough, it does not. hovers around 3-4GB. which is i came to the fragging hypothesis. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 03:11 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does your trb node's memory usage grow unboundedly?

asciilifeform: fwiw neither zoolag nor dulap have ever oom'd.

asciilifeform: *how i came to the

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: any recollection of how quickly it approaches that upper bound?

asciilifeform: week or so.

asciilifeform: possibly because same proggy, lol

asciilifeform: btw i proved last year that the in-memory block index ~does~ grow unboundedly, but very slowly.

asciilifeform: ( see july 2015 mailinglist )

asciilifeform: well given as ben_vulpes was likely connecting to my boxes, he is seeing a quite similar mempool landscape to mine.

ben_vulpes: i haven't leveled the aws banhammer, so my node's likely collecting all sorts of hilarious crud that yours isn't

BingoBoingo: !~later tell thestringpuller you have been slacking on blogging for a whole month

mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski please add entries to the bot page for !% !Q !W !R !A !S !X !1 !2 !3 !4 !5 !q !w !r !a !s !x with the mention "not currently allocated" or such, and a note at the end saying in sum that if one wants to make a bot for #trilema they're to take the next unallocated string for his bot's UNIQUE control code, and display what it does to us in channel.

mircea_popescu: trinque asciilifeform & everyone : without detracting from the more important gossipd spec work, im thinking of making a bot spec. it'd require bots to answer in pm to help, help json and help sexpr. comments/ideas ? ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#28 < no trb node of mine ever allocated 4gb ram. there's something weird there. ☟︎

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [03:12:59] <ben_vulpes> i've been running this one for 9 days straight (previous box would OOM-kill the process every 2 days or so), and it's currently holding 3846M RES

ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "weird" might be connected to the net at large and hearing all sorts of strange

mircea_popescu: more like, weird might be having a shit malloc implementation or such, so what we do in 3.x ish you do in 4 ? i dunno. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: (yes it adds ~200 bytes per block due to index, but 1 gb is you know, five million of these.)

mircea_popescu: grated, the notion this thing would actually allocate that much, considering what it actually does, is pretty shocking. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#52 << in which we find that i actually qualify for lafond's dindu status ?! ☟︎

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [03:40:40] <BingoBoingo> Oh, news from near ben_vulpes land http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5220

mircea_popescu: but bonus points for his unexamined notions that monogamy-beer-and-watching-sports constitutes some sort of universal moral code. ☟︎

ben_vulpes: is there any particular reason why everyone renders block hashes in big-endian format? ☟︎

shinohai: oh hey ben_vulpes ... re: memory use growth. yes it does at first but seems to stabilize after a restart

ben_vulpes: do you have a ballpark estimate of your nodes memory consumption and restart frequency?

shinohai: mines like mod6's it munches 3 or so ... but i stop and restart it every Sunday.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540909 << mircea_popescu is a wolf in the forest..? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:38 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#52 << in which we find that i actually qualify for lafond's dindu status ?!

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [03:40:40] <BingoBoingo> Oh, news from near ben_vulpes land http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5220

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540897 << sounds like a ~complete spec right here where it stands ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:11 mircea_popescu: trinque asciilifeform & everyone : without detracting from the more important gossipd spec work, im thinking of making a bot spec. it'd require bots to answer in pm to help, help json and help sexpr. comments/ideas ?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540898 << mircea_popescu never used, afaik, the verstring patch, his heathen traffic is small , as prb ignores his nodes. which is one possible reason behind his sometimes isolation on the path to miners. not all - but many - paths lead through prb heathendom. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:14 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#28 < no trb node of mine ever allocated 4gb ram. there's something weird there.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [03:12:59] <ben_vulpes> i've been running this one for 9 days straight (previous box would OOM-kill the process every 2 days or so), and it's currently holding 3846M RES

asciilifeform: at any rate, aside from the 300byte/block index, the rest of the load depends on mempool , and in particular mempool fragging.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540902 << if mircea_popescu built a rotor, he has same STATIC musltronic binary as other people with his patchset. which includes malloc etc. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:15 mircea_popescu: more like, weird might be having a shit malloc implementation or such, so what we do in 3.x ish you do in 4 ? i dunno.

asciilifeform: (trb is 100% static, i hope this is not news to anyone)

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540907 << it doesn't, strictly speaking, good chunk of it is frag ullage ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:19 mircea_popescu: grated, the notion this thing would actually allocate that much, considering what it actually does, is pretty shocking.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540911 << where were these things mentioned? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:41 mircea_popescu: but bonus points for his unexamined notions that monogamy-beer-and-watching-sports constitutes some sort of universal moral code.

asciilifeform: incidentally, i still have nfi what mircea_popescu's patchset is. understandably he can stay mum about it if he likes, but it makes his debugging reports ~useless from a trb pov.

asciilifeform: half the time i do not even know if he is speaking of a trb -- or mpb! node.

asciilifeform: and i have reason to suspect that mpb is catastrophically defective and fails to pass tx to trb (which, recall, is a reference, one does not get to say that it is broken in vs the unpublished mpb) under certain circumstances.

asciilifeform: shinohai: shamaning is easy, engineering - less easy.

asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/8Sb0n : 'Paramount Pictures recently sent a DMCA takedown to Google, listing a copy of the popular operating system Ubuntu.'

asciilifeform: in other other noose, http://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security-intelligence/pokemon-themed-umbreon-linux-rootkit-hits-x86-arm-systems << run MOAR dynamic linking !11

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you might have noticed that in a dispute between wolf and cow the fellow sides wiht... the cow ?

asciilifeform: i thought it was with the farmer.

asciilifeform: vs usg and its fines for shooting 'rare' wolf etc.

mircea_popescu: heh. mno. he fails to say "wolf does the right thing - farmer is a fucking idiot for not shooting it. law ? what fucking law."

mircea_popescu: in the debate of yet-another-flavoured-socialism vs wolf, i'll sit with the wolf.

asciilifeform: wolf is a winner.

asciilifeform: relatedly, i've always wondered if the thing re wolf population post-ww2 were factual.

mircea_popescu: and i'll tell you : he takes issue with, eg, the latin "child goes after his mother", apparently this is "an excuse of deadbeat dads".

thestringpuller: !~later tell BingoBoingo none of the articles on my draft table seem compelling enough yet to publish. call me one of those tortured artists.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty sure they were, many parts in transylvania wolf was only coming back cca 1980s

mircea_popescu: anyway. dude's "moral code" is a vaguely digested version of picket fences, whereby "hardworking man" "should" "get things" "just like all the others". it's a strand of labour thinking from the 1800s that was born out of a very strange, but temporary and self-limiting situation, and otherwise has no place in the world.

mircea_popescu: da fuck i care that he feels equal to the plumber down the street and the banker two streets down and in the legobox that plays the role of his thinker they're "all the same" plastic figurines.

asciilifeform: his thought process, as i gather, was roughly 'there were picketfences. and working men Got Things. and petrol was twopence/gallon. and then the weevils came. and the zombies came. if we could be rid of the zombies, of the weevils...'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems like his trainees have a use

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fella teaches, iirc, boxing.

asciilifeform: for money.

mircea_popescu: i sure as fuck am not about to go watch di maggio pitch with him ; nor drink the beer-flavoured-sprite he guzzles. and i'll fuck his woman, without any concern for him ; while he can't fuck mine, because she won't put up with his dumb head. life is so unfair.

asciilifeform: as i recall, lafond is old man, has no women.

mircea_popescu: was talking symbolicly, of teh "i watched steven segal movies and it gave me an honor code"

asciilifeform: well i did not go to his boxing school, and have nfi if factual or cover story or wat.

asciilifeform: perhaps BingoBoingo knows.

mircea_popescu: what i'd be more interested in is, if BingoBoingo can explicit the "honor code" symbol as used by lafond, seeing how i read much less than him from the man.

BingoBoingo: To the extent honor code exists in my reading of lafond, the lynchpin is Lafond won't give up his wallet to muggers and the people who do have deep failings in their attunement to reality.

mircea_popescu: some questions for you. fucking neighbour's wife - ok or not ok by lafond.honor-code ?

BingoBoingo: fucking neighbor's wife is fine. Keeping your own wife after she fucks neighbor not fine.

asciilifeform: does subj link read like 'cow man' to mircea_popescu ?

mircea_popescu: of course, now i don't like his idiotic position on women, but this is now on the exact opposite side of before.

asciilifeform: 'I will not lie to honorable men, but am committed to lying to women, because they cannot handle the truth and cannot be trusted with it in the face of your enemies.' << this ?

mircea_popescu: i will daresay that if your women can't be trusted in front of enemies you've been wasting your time.

asciilifeform: and where's he to get 'trustable' ones ?

asciilifeform: suitcase, airplane, namibia ?

asciilifeform: make out of what? americans ?

BingoBoingo: In other news the Bureau adds. "Lastly, you could consider modifying your vehicle with a vehicle security system or secure the catalytic converter to the vehicle frame with additional welding."

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all kids are born in shit. as the gypsy wife said to her husband, "do we wash it or do we make another"

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha, anything! but impaling thieves.

asciilifeform: and lafond is basically correct, in any confrontation between honest men and thieves, usg takes the side of the thief.

asciilifeform: recall the copper thread.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and you know why, yes ? thief isn't asking anything from usg.

asciilifeform: not even

mircea_popescu: natural preference for the "quiet" child ; they're all usg's children, cuz modern democracy much like ancient tyranny is definitionally inclusive.

asciilifeform: thief supplies valuable services to usg

asciilifeform: by justifying the existence of the 'catch and release' system of police, judge, jail, etc.

mircea_popescu: it's very much self-flattery of the monogamy-beer-and-watching-sports trabajador, that the usg somehow fears him / cares.

mircea_popescu: it's not even in any way ~aware~ mb&ws trabajador even exists, as any sort of separate or separable entity.

asciilifeform: but it does fear the thief. at the very least, as a class. rulers who interfere with a mass plunder in progress tend to develop 'problems'.

asciilifeform: also the 'thief isn't asking anything' model is quite a bit off. the 'dindus' of bmore are as actively managed and externally fed as the animals in any other zoo. no less so than the white suburban folk. neither sows, nor reaps, etc.

mircea_popescu: yeah. but he thinks 1k in cash is "oprah rich" whereas mb&ws derp expects millions in expenditure and still whines about it.

mircea_popescu: take the following poll : if you were given the choice of living permanently with 1 of : rodger elliot ; trayvon whatever, which'd you pick ?

asciilifeform: the penguins, in antarctica.

mircea_popescu: one can't talk to girls because sex ; the other can't talk to girls because sex.

mircea_popescu: the only difference is that one has "a taste for opulence" and dings your imported german car.

mircea_popescu: whereas the other wants to go to burning man and rub in the human dogvomit.

asciilifeform: something is buggy here, 'trayvon' would not be found withing a cannon's shot of 'burning man' as i understand.

asciilifeform: from yesterday's thread.

asciilifeform: *within

mircea_popescu: burning man is for white wanna-bes, the black dudes have different rubspots.

asciilifeform: ^ perfectly fine chix

asciilifeform: l0l! where was this, 'pussyriot' ?

mircea_popescu: pretty sure a) those neurotic ceramic salesgirls don't matter-of-factly expose their cunt as seen there and b) they've no guns.

asciilifeform: well noshit.jpg

asciilifeform: folks who work with pieces that actually shoot, do not have this stance.

asciilifeform: certainly would not abide barrel in the face as pictured, etc.

mircea_popescu: speaking of, i wonder why not more store robberies perpetrated by nude women.

mircea_popescu: this makes no sense to me. so you've supposedly "given up on society" and everything, right ? why the fuck are you dressed.

asciilifeform: camouflage for getaway >

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, more like "i don't care about what you think enough to not rob the place ; but god damned i care what you may say about my genitalia"

asciilifeform: ~0 robberies by woman on typical day where i live.

asciilifeform: (unless they're all seeekrit)

mircea_popescu: "i think the machine gun works by stabbing its victims ; but you won't notice because tits."

asciilifeform: also won't notice that papier-mache.

mircea_popescu: fact is, average woman willing to give it all away will make more over any period than average convenience store robber willing to give it all away.

asciilifeform: ( i have been told that a surprising number of robberies involves arms that are obviously, to naked eye, shams. evidently many folks lose their shit and fail to notice... )

mircea_popescu: as the police joke goes, "every victim describes the assailant's gun the same way : it was big"

asciilifeform: BIIIG

asciilifeform: in other orlols, 'In terms of where the Soviet Union stood beside the United States for instance, in the '70s during the oil embargo and all of the troubles that the US was going through, the economic troubles at the time, the Soviet Union was looking pretty good. In fact, that's when we left the Soviet Union thinking we were going to this dreamy place. We got there and it's a dump. It was just an unbelievably sad sight.'

asciilifeform: 'One thing I've observed which is interesting which is that a lot of people will not admit that they're going to vote for Trump but you see it in their eyes. ... they're just keeping mum about it because their own family members will turn on them if they announced the fact that they're about to vote for Trump. There's going to be a huge number of men, specifically, angry ones who keep their anger hidden most of the time, who will wal

asciilifeform: k into that voting booth and out of spite pull the trigger for Trump. '

asciilifeform: ( http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/09/kunstlercast-transcript.html but most of it is a snore )

asciilifeform: !!up r00s

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119069 << proposed 'lighthoused' spec

asciilifeform: aaaand happy 128th comment!1111

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ftr, i'm still torn on the unauthenticated lighthouse thing. enemy can still make headaches for folks by silently mutating suspected lighthouse datagrams in transit.

mircea_popescu: eh, the soviets looked good in the 50s/60s only, and strictly because the old austro-hungarian empire was ground to dust by hovitzer fire, literally, and france/low countries etc had been bombed pretty badly. so west europe starved which it hadn't done for 3 centuries while russia starved which it had done each other decade.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'the cow barn looked great after the mansion next door was burned down by drunken sons of old man rockefeller'

asciilifeform: fact is - looked good.

mircea_popescu: not really. just in comparative terms. you know, like the sow looks good next to the goat.

asciilifeform: well yes.

asciilifeform: 'in the great birdlessness, my arse is a nightingale.'

mircea_popescu: and whatever, they had some maybe-promising beginnings in modernist art ; but the narrowminded soviet derps (lenin & gf front and center) fucked it up.

asciilifeform: where did narrowminded derps not fuck it all up.

mircea_popescu: incidentally, i suspect this is the whole recipe of south amercan socialism : "we're just as much a bunch of idiot subhuman iron age farmers ; unlike lenin we won't fuck with proletkult"

mircea_popescu: so there's all these "art" craps that consist of that same image of che etc.

asciilifeform: this cult was a thing quite particular to the time and place - folks who are not making motions to industrialize etc. are not at risk.

mircea_popescu: and industrialize in particular manner - "we'll cull the peasantry and build towns"

asciilifeform: the hammer, if you will, is absent, south amer. is approx. 'sickle-only' place.

asciilifeform: will be known again as soon as chinese tractors quit coming in.

mircea_popescu: (for the innocent : the sickle is the pinnacle of agricultural slavery. it requires one to literally walk bent over and using arms for 10-12 hours. only miner has harder time.)

asciilifeform: there is never an ~all~ monkeys starving - some remain, rediscover sickle, and work.,

asciilifeform: afaik communists have not yet succeeded in actually turning people into rabbit.

asciilifeform: the spaniards were people.

mircea_popescu: and it's an insult to communism to call south american communists. they're not communists, they're just dumb and lazy.

asciilifeform: well yes.

asciilifeform: it was a spanish production originally.

mircea_popescu: but argentina is mostly built out of the italians that couldn't find us army tit to suck in europe. ie, the rejects of rejects, it's dubious italians are people at all.

asciilifeform: where did the smart italians go ?

mircea_popescu: nah. listen, the way these "spanish dominions" worked was that the spanish kind simple claimed the land. there wasn't a 1 spanyard per billion acres.

asciilifeform: there was a venice, (most serene!111), a genoa, etc

asciilifeform: aha! what hole did they fall into ?

asciilifeform: is what i'd like to know.

asciilifeform: probably same hole.

mircea_popescu: think, re the "rediscover sickle and work", that sickle is a necessary product of very intensively worked lands in like europe. it's trying to adjust to pressure.

mircea_popescu: there's no pressure here. they'll just revert to subsistence hunting/gathering.

asciilifeform: dunno that this is still there to be reverted to.

asciilifeform: the necessary ecosystems are ~gone.

asciilifeform: people dun eat grass.

mircea_popescu: yeah, but where's grass there's rodents and bugs. people can live off dung, rodents and bugs.

asciilifeform: at any rate, this will be tested experimentally.

asciilifeform: will not long remain an open question.

mircea_popescu: not particularly an open question even now. since 1966 - 2016, 10 5-year-plans of constant decay.

asciilifeform: i meant the q of 'how many can survive on forest rodent and cicada' etc.

asciilifeform: post-industrial shitholes do not necessarily cleanly fallback to '100k pygmies'

asciilifeform: quite possibly they will fall back to '100k cellar dwellers in stalingrad'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'their' industry, as i understand, is in shanghai.

asciilifeform: exactly like usa's.

mircea_popescu: us and argentina have a lot more in common than the usian would like to think ; certainly much closer to argentina than to europe.

mircea_popescu: anyway - the great agricultural jump between 2k and 1k bc almost doubled world population (from about 60-70 to about 110-120 mn) ; before that, the great move from subsistence hunter/gathering to pastoral lifestyle cca 7k/5k tripled it, from about 7ish to about 20ish. the earth was throughout the same 500mn sq km ; and so you can say that truly primitive men will live about 0.01 to the sq km ; mongoloids (ie, you know, horse

mircea_popescu: riding cattle herders, like the cowboys, or Gingis Khan's men) about 0.04 or so ; and ancient world agriculturalists can get as high as 0.2 people per square kilometer.

asciilifeform: well this is the usual picture, but it presupposes intact systems.

mircea_popescu: then piling up two millenia of advances you get almost 1, about .8 pre-industrialization ; and our current ~8 post, via railroad, refrigeration, sanitation, etc.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nature is very stable. recall all the inept drama about how "chernobyl is permadestroyed" ? people like to flatter themselves.

asciilifeform: sahara ain't getting smaller, aral sea - wetter.

asciilifeform: geological time./

asciilifeform: perhaps gigantic cockroaches will plow it.

mircea_popescu: when you're discussing the earth you're discussing geological time. nobody cares about people.

asciilifeform: well iirc original q was, partially, 'will it be people'

mircea_popescu: depends. do you mean "people" in the sense of monogamy-beer-and-watching-sports, "what my daddy told me" etc ? or do you mean people in the sense of, whoever is on the land is the people ?

mircea_popescu: these two are only confused in the mind of the derpy englisher trying to flatter britannia.

mircea_popescu: "I'm a 23 year old female who believes in all things kinky. I have major breeding fantasies, and have had multiple children already, all whom I have given up for adoption. I'm helping the world and being a slut all at the same time." << deeze internets.

asciilifeform: people in the sense of continuity with the present whoever. vs 'giant cockroaches that replace us' or similar.

asciilifeform: waiwat

asciilifeform: what's 'breeding fantasy'

mircea_popescu: there is nothing contiguous in the present upon which to build future contiguity.

mircea_popescu: an' i imagine breeding fantasy is when she fantasizes about being tied in a barn, fed, impregnated etc. like a human domestic animal mix.

asciilifeform: there was iirc at least 1 american writer dude whose alien invaders had nonsentient, entirely cow-like females

asciilifeform: like meta-greece.

asciilifeform: y'know, the parallel greece that actually ran 'by the book' or however.

mircea_popescu: technology breeds differentiation. pretty sure this is a stable node ; so they'll exist alright.

mircea_popescu: not sure who'd describe average working crack whore as sentient. ~same sentience as cow.

asciilifeform: well yes, niven (and iirc it was niven, otherwise unremarkable hack) did not pull the idea out of his arse ex nihilo.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#225 << if you think that is what spec looks like you must be new here! ☟︎

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [15:28:28] <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al : http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119069 << proposed 'lighthoused' spec

asciilifeform: i'm not convinced that specs have been invented yet.

asciilifeform: (if it were an adequate and total description, it would BE the proggy)

asciilifeform: any statement that can be mechanically transformed into a working program, is a program.

mircea_popescu: maybe ; but a spec is not defined as "can mechanically be transformed into a working program".

mircea_popescu: much like a definition of an apple is not an apple ; just so a spec is not a program.

mircea_popescu: this idea of "code is specification" is on about the same level of intellectual sophistication as "definition by example". ie, something morons with schoolhouse jobs do.

asciilifeform: the impracticality of 'code as specification' is wholly from the nonexistence of sane programming systems

asciilifeform: rather than from same impracticality as 'the 10-34 thread is this here screw in washington'

PeterL: what is the procedure for gettiing a bot voiced? I rewrote scoopbot to get titles of links, do I need to get it talking to deedbot/gpg decrypting things too?

asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119078 << seems like we're back to start, eh.

ben_vulpes: http://discuss.ardupilot.org/t/ardupilot-and-dronecode/11295 << "Due to their overwhelming desire to be able to make a proprietary autopilot stack the Platinum members staged what can only be called a coup. They removed all top level open source projects from DroneCode, leaving only their own nominees in the Technical Steering Committee."

asciilifeform: http://adapilot.likeabird.eu << linked from ben_vulpes's link. ☟︎

asciilifeform: !!up scoopbot

asciilifeform: PeterL: in order to work correctly, this bot would have to know about every other bot, neh ? ☟︎

asciilifeform: otherwise it risks shitting out 'scoops' when scriba, a111, et al shit links.

asciilifeform: which imho would be quite annoying.

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 17:26 asciilifeform: PeterL: in order to work correctly, this bot would have to know about every other bot, neh ?

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 16:36 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#225 << if you think that is what spec looks like you must be new here!

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [15:28:28] <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu et al : http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119069 << proposed 'lighthoused' spec

asciilifeform: i'd say yes. but ask mircea_popescu when he wakes up, iirc he doesn't even like the idea of a scoopbot

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i know 0 about it, it was simply mentioned in thread.

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 17:24 asciilifeform: http://adapilot.likeabird.eu << linked from ben_vulpes's link.

asciilifeform: i did not even bother to look, ben_vulpes

asciilifeform: at this point i have ~0 interest in heathen flying machine controllers.

asciilifeform: if we make one, it will be from 0, and not from them.

asciilifeform: if not - not.

asciilifeform: and it isn't as if we did not go to highschool and did not learn how an ODE is solved.

asciilifeform: ( you do not, in point of fact, even need a digital computer; there were ODE solvers before the computer, and before the transistor. )

asciilifeform: so we do not need fartupilot or whatever, for anything.

asciilifeform: at least i don't.

asciilifeform: i cannot speak, for instance, for diametric, i'm pretty sure he used it.

asciilifeform: one of those ill-fated 'de-facto standards', like gcc.

asciilifeform: 'because no reasonable fella would ever try to write an ... !'

asciilifeform: these are to go away. not be propped up.

asciilifeform: if it turns out that it is impractical for one man to wrap his head around a cpp compiler, it is cpp that will have to vanish

asciilifeform: and not fits-in-head.

ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, asciilifeform: do you have any insight re reversed block hashes per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540912 ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 08:55 ben_vulpes: is there any particular reason why everyone renders block hashes in big-endian format?

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: artifact of 'standards org' idiocy

asciilifeform: for some reason bigendian is considered 'canonical network order'

asciilifeform: pure simonsays.

ben_vulpes: aight well in light of how they come in blocks in little-endian format i propose they also get rendered that way wtf

asciilifeform: to be fair i have nfi how to possibly escape from specifying byte order.

asciilifeform: but to specify TWO byte orders in 1 protocol !

asciilifeform: that is something only a jwz could love.

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i don't think the big-endianness is even in the protocol is it?

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: well where is it then ?

asciilifeform: ask them, then.

asciilifeform: not me.

asciilifeform: i operate 0 block exploders.

asciilifeform: right.

asciilifeform: if i had to guess - i'd guess 'openssl'.

asciilifeform: well, they gotta hash and shit with ~something~, eh

trinque: llvm will never actually implement c/c++ as currently "specified" by the existence of gcc

asciilifeform: correct.

asciilifeform: even gcc5 no longer does. ☟︎

asciilifeform: (it 'optimizes' away essential security checks, as discussed in at least 2 past threads )

asciilifeform: specification-by-program is probably one of those evils that is here to stay, like cancer and airplane crashes.

asciilifeform: it will die with the last programmer.

asciilifeform: (who is probably already born.)

asciilifeform: the reason why we ~have~ spec-by-program is because it is the only actual alternative to fits-in-head.

asciilifeform: you get one, or you get the other, tertium non datur.

asciilifeform: a specification can exist as a real object (which is very painful, consider the standard kilogram block, or trb) or an ideal object.

asciilifeform: however an ideal object that is two+ heads wide is not a thing.

asciilifeform: just like you cannot keep a whale in a bowl in your kitchen.

asciilifeform: or in 10,000 bowls.

asciilifeform: (not, at any rate, a ~live~ whale)

asciilifeform: this is why i suspect that folks such as mircea_popescu are not allergic to the idea of a program specifying a concept, but of a concept that CAN ONLY BE specified by THIS HERE PROGRAM

asciilifeform: granted, these have gone together inseparably for the entire history of programming.

asciilifeform: just as folks allergic to cat often do not know that they are in fact allergic to a certain parasitic mite that lives in the animal's fur.

asciilifeform: the fundamental mistake of 'spec by gcc' is to consider a large computer program as an ideal object.

asciilifeform: it is not one.

asciilifeform: it is merely a real object that can be copied and teleported.

asciilifeform: the only computer program that qualifies to be thought of as an ideal object is one which fitsinhead.

Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#16 << very cool stuff re lighthoused, been following comments, will try to properly grok once i get some time and energy (~tomorrow). very neat work indeed

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [02:32:33] <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes, trinque, Framedragger, et al ^

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 3913MB of what ?

asciilifeform: Framedragger: answr'd.

asciilifeform: Framedragger: answr'd x2.

trinque: shinohai: your bot has precisely zero to do with when it rejoins during netsplit.

asciilifeform: phf's bot looks to be knocked out ?

Framedragger: filtering udp, seriously. so no dns over udp ("dns must die" - well, i guess, fair...)

asciilifeform: Framedragger: all it means is that you need a patched kernel to send and receive.

Framedragger: asciilifeform: right. which is not a super strange thing to require anyway imho; this may be required when IP is dissected for gossipd purposes, anyway. (sure, ideally the whole thing should be (eventually) ditched.

asciilifeform: Framedragger: i'm not yet entirely certain if mircea_popescu understands that the choices on the table are strictly a) use radio b) use ip c) lay own oceanic fiber.

asciilifeform: and that (b) means either being retarded (services built on tcp, such as www and irc) or some variation on udp.

Framedragger: imho one should not start prototyping gossipd on tcp due to the whole stateful nature of tcp. it would make things *appear* to be so much easier - implicit packet ordering and stream control, etc. - and when things eventually need changed it's gonna suck00r bigtime

asciilifeform: Framedragger: i won't touch a tcp 'gossipd'

asciilifeform: not for love, nor money

asciilifeform: who wants - go, do.

asciilifeform: http://www.thescreamonline.com/essays/essays2-1/tsarsthumb.html << see also.

Framedragger: ftr, the relevant capabilities in linux seem to be CAP_NET_RAW and CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/NihIk << claims the railway story was a gag. whatever.

asciilifeform: Framedragger: we all have man pages.

Framedragger: ..and now the relevant stuff is in searchable logs! YOU'RE WELCOME no but, sorry for spam

trinque: spb (~stephen@freenode/staff/spb): [Global notice] We've put a cloth over the self-destruct button so that nobody pushes it again. << ahahaha

asciilifeform: how do we say http://lurkmore.to/%D0%A3%D1%87%D0%B8_%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C in ro ? or for that matter eng.? or any of the languages mircea_popescu knows.

asciilifeform: !~translate RU to EN матчасть

asciilifeform: mno. not quite.

asciilifeform: e.g., what would you say to a dude who demands an airgun that fires supersonic bullets.

asciilifeform: it is pointedly NOT same.

asciilifeform: 'матчасть' (contraction of, approx, 'material part') is a military term of art, refers to, e.g., how far a ru 120mm howitzer shoots when pointed at 45deg, vs 'how do we make a pincer' ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is the domain of things everyone who has direct contact with the battlefield is expected to understand.

asciilifeform: (and to an extent, those who have indirect contact, generals, also)

trinque: heh, this guy expects english to have a phrase for insulting someone lacking knowledge of specifics / experience

asciilifeform: if it doesn't , it is a dire problem

asciilifeform: and not mine, but the language's.

asciilifeform: and it does not have to insult, but to prod - it must.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [01:13:01] <hanbot> http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160911/#220 << moar like retribution for that "elena" monstrosimovie, an exhilarating tale of beige and waiting.

Framedragger: (in truth, can't compare to *actually great* moving long shots etc, not in the same league at all, admittedly)

asciilifeform: eh, заметили, заметили.

phf`: another exciting way in which logging can fail. bot sitting on one split server, znc sitting on another split server

asciilifeform: phf`: it is quite possible for a bot to sit on >1 server. just needs >1 nick.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#342 << no, actually, they're fundamentally different items.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [16:49:30] <asciilifeform> the impracticality of 'code as specification' is wholly from the nonexistence of sane programming systems

mircea_popescu: i suppose effort to bridge the gap has been made, perhaps most notably the "literate code" thing, but still. spec is not code ; code is not spec.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#344 << to limit noise the idea is that whoever puts a link in is responsible to provide context for it ; rather than rely on automatic bot function. bots are to read their own www logs when referenced and that's it.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [17:01:55] <PeterL> what is the procedure for gettiing a bot voiced? I rewrote scoopbot to get titles of links, do I need to get it talking to deedbot/gpg decrypting things too?

mircea_popescu: separately, if you want to register a bot you can have autovoice for it ; but in general it's a good idea to sort out the part where it voices itself as we're headed that way ; the autovoice thing is a stopgap and temporary.

mircea_popescu: you can just take the next control code free from pete's list and go with it. ☟︎

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [17:16:41] <ben_vulpes> http://discuss.ardupilot.org/t/ardupilot-and-dronecode/11295 << "Due to their overwhelming desire to be able to make a proprietary autopilot stack the Platinum members staged what can only be called a coup. They removed all top level open source projects from DroneCode, leaving only their own nominees in the Technical Steering Committee."

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: answr'd.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it ~would~ be a considerably easier job if you answered the q, which is, do you want a description of the thing on all possible physical carriers (radio, pigeon, ip, telex, ...) or just particulars. and if so, which.

asciilifeform: at any rate, i stand by my assertion that a synchronous (if you don't know what this means, look it up) carrier is unsuitable for gossipd.

asciilifeform: i.e. if A has to ~ask~ B something and wait for a reply every time they communicate, it violates nothing-to-allcomers.

mircea_popescu: i generally think everyone stands by their assertions until they say otherwise anyway

asciilifeform: the other fundamental aspect, other than 'nothing-to-allcomers' is that synchronous comms over lossy media (e.g. radio) do not work well. the thing that works well is 'i'll pour a bucket of luby in your direction, and you - in mine.'

asciilifeform: if this is not clear, i do not know how to help, perhaps somebody else ought to try.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#396 << if you don't do it one way, it'll have to be done the other way. either way - it'll be the other way from the other way. what can you do.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [17:41:16] <asciilifeform> to be fair i have nfi how to possibly escape from specifying byte order.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#413 << doh. hence the "wars" (raging mostly in rms' mind)

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [17:46:58] <trinque> llvm will never actually implement c/c++ as currently "specified" by the existence of gcc

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#420 << no, it's a "workable" alternative to go to fucking school and learn to think. which means languages, not math. "but mp, i'm a slut, i have big udders, why should I" oops i was reading from the wrong sheet, i mean "but mp, i'm a mathgeniusboy, why should i" blabla.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [17:51:53] <asciilifeform> the reason why we ~have~ spec-by-program is because it is the only actual alternative to fits-in-head.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from which sheet would you read to herr knuth ?

asciilifeform: 'i won't answer because there is not an answer that doesn't rupture my argument' lolk.

asciilifeform straps on heavy gas mask.

mircea_popescu: no, but because the question is based on a presumption that doesn't hold in practice.

asciilifeform: which presumption ?

mircea_popescu: "what would you say to this mental image of mine which i call by a name i culled from reality and whose existence is here predicated on supporting my position in an inexistent argument ???"

asciilifeform: and the 'mathgeniusboy' with his udders is not a same caricature ?

asciilifeform: or is it somewhere written that mircea_popescu gets to bring in these cartoons and nobody else does.

asciilifeform: aha, was making 'naked' assertion. this is better ?

mircea_popescu: depends how you define better. but it stands in a way the question does not.

mircea_popescu: i can say "the population of argentina has a total sum IQ of 170 over ~40mn people" ; this may be so or not, whatever ; interpreted by the reader. you can ask "o yeah, if you can build things then how would you go about building folded hypercube ?". to which i won't answer. for the reason. are they both caricatures ? maybe so. does that do anything ?

asciilifeform: let's revisit thread - what part of 'fits in head, and speccable, or doesn't-fit-in-head, unspeccable, t. non d.' does mircea_popescu disagree with ?

asciilifeform: can offer item that doesn't fit + is sanely speccable ?

mircea_popescu: the part where you can spec things that don't actually fit in head. for instance, i can specify "a good fuck", or "an acceptably behaved slut" or "a boring housewife"

asciilifeform: or of fits + unspeccable ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's a spec ?!

asciilifeform: is 'tasty' a spec for food ?

asciilifeform: specify, for my education, 'good fuck'

mircea_popescu: intercourse lasting above ten minutes with female capable of orgasm on command with pelvis sufficiently toned to appreciably seal on who is serious about and dedicated to the task of pleasing the cock.

asciilifeform: see, if you say 'fuck so strong that it leaves me unable to get up' then you did not actually specify anything, but merely offered the use of your head as a physical test standard,like that kilogram weight in france.

asciilifeform: robert sheckley even had a hilarious story about a dude who gets conscripted to be the 'standard average fuck'.

asciilifeform: aha, he ends up most-fucked bloke on the planet.

asciilifeform: standard! y'know.

mircea_popescu: anyway. standard allows you to (predictably, ie, unsurprising to third party) accept or reject instantiated examples. this does not automatically allow you to instantiate examples, though it very often helps.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i notice you got an 'appreciably seal' in there. looks like we'll be needing the instrumented standard cock, and a figure in newton-metres ?

mircea_popescu: yes, but that's an anthropological measure, of the ilk of "femur length in humans is 26.75% of height"

mircea_popescu: those two decimals, 4 significant digits, are actually accurate over the fucking population. variations are rare and slight.

asciilifeform: aha. and so it looks like this is a replay of the iq thread - it is quite impossible to specify 'smart', but trivial to specify stupid; impossible - good fuck, easy to describe a useless one; the list of horrible food is easy to make (start with, say, asphalt) but not so of tasties; etc ☟︎

mircea_popescu: and this is rather what a specification is. doesn;t allow you to produce a human ; but it allows me to reject some of your "human" products as not-human.

asciilifeform: aha, it only rejects.

asciilifeform: the problem is that in order to engineer, you gotta have something left after you rejected.

mircea_popescu: large part of spec's job is exactly in the negative. a good spec allows me to construct a complete negative of the item. this is much more important than commonly realised

mircea_popescu: most people approach spec work as a positive endeavour ; which is why mine read so bewildering at first.

asciilifeform: it isn't bewildering.

asciilifeform: but imho it is missing a serious negative - synchronicity - this was 100% of my entire argument.

asciilifeform: synchronicity is incompatible with long-term sanity.

mircea_popescu: possible. the problem there being that the concept itself is like recursivity - poorly understood.

asciilifeform: it so happens that i understand it, and am willing to take on whatever 'you're full of shit, explain turbulence' offered.

asciilifeform: i need a 'you're full of shit, explain ___'

asciilifeform: the part mircea_popescu took issue with was, as i understand, the mapping of 'rng that broadcasts to planet' into 'ip network' (which does not have such a thing as broadcast.)

asciilifeform: yes but patient - barfed. i need to know why.

asciilifeform: i'ma bake a knuth-style recipe and drop it on mircea_popescu's www, but probably not before week is out.

asciilifeform: btw i was hoping for at least a few 'yer full of shit, how about ___' from folks ~other~ than mircea_popescu also.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#502 << i always thought this is what you meant by your lsd / gasmask references.

asciilifeform: approx.

asciilifeform: it means 'dude REALLY demands a pneumatic rifle with supersonic bullet, and thinks that his classical education, 400 chick harem, 9000 battleship fleet entitles him to one' approx.

mircea_popescu: (the joke being, for the physically innocent, that sound is shockwave in gas, and consequently getting gas to move faster than sound is a challenge.)

asciilifeform: euclid had a friend like this also iirc.

asciilifeform: called alex.

asciilifeform: who was pretty great, but wanted 'royal road' etc.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [19:48:48] <trinque> heh, this guy expects english to have a phrase for insulting someone lacking knowledge of specifics / experience

pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1540185 << a10 is only 15 tons it turns out, so just a single order of magnitude off of chopperpistol ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 15:07 mircea_popescu: seems the cannon fires 400gram projectiles, about 70/s. so it expells 30kgs of material per second ; and it weighs 150 tons.

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 20:17 mircea_popescu: you can just take the next control code free from pete's list and go with it.

pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-13#1540863 << i'm seeing closer to 2gb sustained ram footprint with very choosy node and 3-4gb with slutbanger ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-13 03:11 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: does your trb node's memory usage grow unboundedly?

asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you will notice that they did not put the cannon in a chopper.

asciilifeform: ever wonder why not ?

asciilifeform: (american love chopper like no one else)

pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i have no issue imagining the mechanics and forces at play. it's obvious to me why there's no cannonchopper.

asciilifeform: one of the reasons there are no man-sized military quadcopters is that the thing has ~0 INTRINSIC stability

asciilifeform: it must continuously work to stay in the desired orientation.

pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: sure, unless flying machine had 'osprey' like directional boost flexibility and could counter the projectile forces directly

asciilifeform: phf: that's sorta what a recoilless rifle does.

asciilifeform: (in the 19th c variant, one side actually fired sand)

phf: i'm sure that's a long considered designed, but my take on it definitely comes with a trollface

asciilifeform: however a rocket is a considerably simpler device than a recoilless rifle, with the vortex tube, and is the correct solution to 'fire from a floating turd'

phf: incidently before fake-russian did that quadcopter video with guns, there ~was~ a youtube video of a shotgun mounted on a uav, which resulted in the poster being arrested. i can't find it though, was it in logs?

asciilifeform: phf: perhaps you were thinking of the dude who shot a neighbour's flying snoopcam ~with~ a shotgun ?

asciilifeform: looks like pistol

asciilifeform: and apparently http://wtnh.com/2016/06/29/clinton-drone-teen-arrested-for-child-porn

asciilifeform: Can Also Have Problems (tm)

asciilifeform: 'Police say 19-year-old Austin Haughwout never broke the law by putting weapons on drones, but he is in handcuffs now, and it’s all because of what police found on his cellphone. “There were images of children in obscene acts found on his phone,” said Sgt. Jeremiah Dunn, spokesman for the Clinton Police Department.'

asciilifeform: 31333333337 terrorist even though broke no written law? now explain this comp full of cp.

asciilifeform: to the nice jury.

asciilifeform: 'Those videos led to an investigation by the FAA. Clinton police told News 8 that the video didn’t seem to break any laws. Those videos did get Haughwout kicked out of Central Connecticut State University. He is suing over that.'

asciilifeform: lulzy.

asciilifeform: can still sue from the prison when penniless, i wonder?

asciilifeform: seems doubtful.

asciilifeform: i suppose if heemeyer had showed off his killdozer on youtube instead of killdozing immediately when he finished building it, he would have gone to same place as this fool.

asciilifeform: don't build nuke to brag on youtube.

asciilifeform: it isn't what it's for.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [22:03:02] <phf> fire in the opposite directions at the same time

mircea_popescu: check it out, the pistol on quadcopter thing a lot more workable in practice than in alf's theory ?

phf: it is the kind of solution one were to find in yakov perelman books, with a handy back of the napkin classical mechanics calculation explaining how it would work

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hey, can have cannon, just need massive chopper

asciilifeform: and does anyone find it strange that the dude was not tried for the electrically fired pistol, which is banned as 'convertible to full auto' in usa ?

asciilifeform: why did they have to cook up a cp trial for him.

asciilifeform: pistol fired with solenoid is, per my reading, a 5-15 yr offense in usa. (ianal)

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1540616 where's cp department is well oiled and can be deployed at will. that's some fine police work, Lou ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 20:15 mircea_popescu: that this hasn't deteriorated into an endless battle of injunctions is even more shocking. bejewels, not even the lawyers work in the us anymore ?

pete_dushenski: reading all the spec chatter in the logs, it's worth linking the mega-thread on the same topic from june (via levitan) : http://www.contravex.com/2016/06/15/a-brief-discourse-on-specification/

pete_dushenski: frankly, it'd be swell as hell if mp and alf continued this debate in the comments section there - a la gossipd thread model - and then we'd have something to look back on weeks, months, or years from now.

asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: there is such a thing as logs

pete_dushenski: https://www.amazon.com/Proud-Member-Basket-Deplorables-Tshirt/dp/B01LW5XL29 << "i'm with her" has, perhaps inevitably, become "proud member of the basket of deplorables"

pete_dushenski: it's the "make america great again" that's become "proud member of the basket of deplorables"

asciilifeform: i can't wait for the massive rocket 'new mbwebwebwe', which will be named for the first NIGERIAN to 419 around the earth.

asciilifeform: (this in re 'The rocket is "named in honor of John Glenn, the first American to orbit Earth," he added.')

pete_dushenski: "The U.S. government posted a $107 billion budget deficit in August, a 66 percent increase from the same month last year, the Treasury Department said on Tuesday… The fiscal year-to-date deficit was $621 billion through August, up 17 percent from a $530 billion deficit at the same time last year. " << a hundred $bn a month short… fuckin way to go 'world's largest economy', you ARE detroit.

a111: Logged on 2016-03-31 01:55 phf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6q4n5TQnpA via jwz, an old interview with klf after they burned million pounds, for the amusement of #t-a

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [22:22:28] <pete_dushenski> frankly, it'd be swell as hell if mp and alf continued this debate in the comments section there - a la gossipd thread model - and then we'd have something to look back on weeks, months, or years from now.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160913/#692 << it is worth noting that the deficit as accounted for is just about 10% of the gdp as accounted for, which is to say one's probably understated and the oither probably understated.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-13: [23:02:16] <pete_dushenski> "The U.S. government posted a $107 billion budget deficit in August, a 66 percent increase from the same month last year, the Treasury Department said on Tuesday… The fiscal year-to-date deficit was $621 billion through August, up 17 percent from a $530 billion deficit at the same time last year. " << a hundred $bn a month short… fuckin way to

mircea_popescu: which in practical terms means the usg is taxing a further 10% of the whole gdp, on top of whatever it admits to

a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 16:29 asciilifeform: in other noose, 70.33.211.11 (yes, 1 box) has been ddosing trb nodes, in particular zoolag.