BingoBoingo still greatly prefering phf's lowwwg to Framedragger's
☟︎ phf: cheers, i just refreshed the stack so should be less random bot timeouts
phf: i'm pretty sure cmucl's networking/threading interaction is busted. it shouldn't be, for all practical purposes it's an erlang model (green threads, and async io on vm level), but in practice the code is dodgy..
BingoBoingo: Nah, danielpbarron doesn't have that droopy eye
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 604.95, vol: 5639.70819372 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 606.03, vol: 6108.4073 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 611.9, vol: 9773.78534644 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 603.20118, vol: 533758.22160000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 611.3, vol: 791.43526673 | Volume-weighted last average: 603.414412468
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 429383 | Current Difficulty: 2.2075590833037228E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 429407 | Next Difficulty In: 24 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 hours, 32 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
pete_dushenski: obviously a 'cap' of 1.5x surge pricing is retarded and doesn't prevent drivers from being yahoos and scamming riders, as happened to yours truly last month in mtl when driver intentionally disobeyed my command and that of his gps toy and intentionally took wrong turn 'by accident' that led to a detour almost doubling the mileage of the trip
pete_dushenski: to uber's credit, i wrote them an email explaining the situation and they refunded me the fare with almost no hassle to speak of.
pete_dushenski: speaking of making use of blogs, i've taken the liberty of compiling the various #trilema bots, their calls, and their functions onto a single page >> bots.contravex.com
pete_dushenski: bash.contravex.com is also in beta. shinohai and i will be working on it going forward :)
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 01:43 BingoBoingo still greatly prefering phf's lowwwg to Framedragger's
ben_vulpes: is that girl going to fix her irc ever?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 18:52 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i am quite curious re how you would summarize the point of contention in subj thread.
BingoBoingo: !~covertress pls to fix your IRC flouncer? consider hosting it on a different interwebz pipe? Preferably one with more consisent pressure and brazed copper fittings?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Error: "covertress" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: !~later tell covertress pls to fix your IRC flouncer? consider hosting it on a different interwebz pipe? Preferably one with more consisent pressure and brazed copper fittings?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 03:54 ben_vulpes:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539662 << you know i had a whole thing typed out but i think the core is that mircea_popescu is talking connections and asciilifeform is talking blobs
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Error: "s" is not a valid command.
phf: no that last one should've worked let me check
a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 16:22 mircea_popescu: the point ~everyone, from the propellerhead ethidiots to yours truly, prefers to not observe the fact that bitcoin can not be part of economic activity as is, because unspecified machinery with unpredictable behaviours are exactly not the substance of contractual agreements.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i recall. and without the nukeforkpocalypse, i thought that using mod6's '-lows' flag was sop...
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have no idea how challenge/response is stateless
ben_vulpes: one of the other things i had scribbled down is that asciilifeform wants a crypto-hard wall against "teh ddos", and mircea_popescu appears satisfied that uninformed idiots who can't find keys are enough of a pill against the ddos. i don't see how this is an improvement on the ip address, which the average netizen is entirely uncognizant of.
ben_vulpes: can't imagine my failure to understand belongs on trilema
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it belongs there inasmuch as the explanation belongs there.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#9 << a) that dude looks too much like a dork to be dpb ; b) notice how many of these schmucks are wanted for "the dpr crime", aka "said heretic things to usg agents while unaware of their being usg agents, facts to which usg agents swear" ?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [03:10:19] <pete_dushenski> speaking of making use of blogs, i've taken the liberty of compiling the various #trilema bots, their calls, and their functions onto a single page >> bots.contravex.com
mircea_popescu: should have a proper list of commands rather than a few words description of what it does though.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-08-29 15:13 mircea_popescu: no, !#
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:10:01] <asciilifeform> #!s tropos
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:10:57] <asciilifeform> can we have a perma-moratorium on this nonsense ?
mircea_popescu: memorialized examples include you bitching about phuctor's hosting for spurious reasons, which resulted in enemy thanking us for a year of downtime. i had hoped you learned lesson, but ferrocranium is severe with you.
mircea_popescu: it also includes in recent memory you bitching about a111 logging, only to discover presently that actually you love it.
mircea_popescu: ima skip the endless deluge of similar idiocy in between the two quoted points. stop whining like an impotent retard who has internalized his impotence and consequently whines as loudly as he can and does not stick to his whining a moment later. it's unseemly.
Framedragger: (may put in additional commands but those are lower priority)
Framedragger: yeah meknows, it should first do the hostmask and only then enter room. will need to check innards of bot.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#76 << i recall explaining then, but i guess it didn't stick : the fact that transactions are malleable means no such thing as a "high only" pool may exist - others can malleate your "high only" txn and mine them as lows. meanwhile network effects prevent you building a mining farm that mines high-s txn : unless you control a significant portion of the hash, you will just mine orphans.
☟︎ scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:59:38] <asciilifeform> but no takers, mega-surprise.
mircea_popescu: and these two points aren't unrelated. the keystone of maturity is an ability to pick fights judiciously.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, a good measure of power is the overlap between "judiciously" and "it fucking pisses me off".
mircea_popescu: with the caveat, of course, that it's one of those "greeks, exactly backwards, exactly right" : the infantile mind will expect the sentence speaks about the world. in fact, it speaks about the self.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: regarding gossipd, aside from the central point of disagreement, regarding a "lighter" matter: what about subscribing/unsubscribing to "topics" (a kind of pubsub model)? because there's no discussion of multiparty chat as of now; or is there not to be, in gossipd?
☟︎ Framedragger: topic-based publish/subscribe has been sorta well researched, but i guess this problem is on another 'layer': gossipd document would leave this for 'implementation'. even though it may not be trivial at all, to make decisions regarding such matters, choose best spec, or design it from ground zero. but of course makes sense to discuss the foundations first
Framedragger obligatory swear towards paywalled PDFs. two evils at the same time, "CS" "academia" ftw
jhvh1: adlai: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 04:21 asciilifeform: danielpbarron: your www appears to be dead ?
Framedragger: summary by one lucb1e, "people that can run queries on your MySQL server, either by legit access (shared webhosting or something else) or via an SQL-injection vulnerability, can execute commands that might root your server. Looking at the PoC, it seems possible to overwrite any file that the MySQL user (or whichever user MySQL runs as) can write to."
☟︎ Framedragger: and also from the cve, "The vulnerability can be exploited even if security modules SELinux and AppArmor are installed with default active policies for MySQL service on major Linux distributions."
shinohai suddeny remember why he detests MySQL
Framedragger: (the PoC seems neat, with a custom bogus malloc library that mysql is told to use by a malicious config file loaded by malicious mysql trigger)
shinohai: Maybe I should switch to an ethereum-based database >.>
jurov: nor other branches/releases
jurov: does not look like "vendor fixed"
davout: danielpbarron: you still hosting on a tamagotchi or sthg?
shinohai remembers this scam site called "mybitcoinjob.com" that was being hosted on a cellphone and could be dos'd with a simple nmap scan.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 11:08 Framedragger: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: regarding gossipd, aside from the central point of disagreement, regarding a "lighter" matter: what about subscribing/unsubscribing to "topics" (a kind of pubsub model)? because there's no discussion of multiparty chat as of now; or is there not to be, in gossipd?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 04:33 mircea_popescu: otherwise - hole, night, creeps in.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [11:08:04] <Framedragger> mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: regarding gossipd, aside from the central point of disagreement, regarding a "lighter" matter: what about subscribing/unsubscribing to "topics" (a kind of pubsub model)? because there's no discussion of multiparty chat as of now; or is there not to be, in gossipd?
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, why the heck are we discussing this here rather than there ;/
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, shit. for some reason the first time i've read the message storage format (in the general sense), i.e. "time, X, Y, text", i read it as from X directed towards Y. my shitty fault
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: because i thought the question may have been truly stupid, and turns out it sorta was!
jurov: scriba: that's message format on application level, but not even network level is resolved yet
mircea_popescu: yes, but now if i want to say "i suppose if one wants channels he can just prefix his lines with #trilema or whatever, but this is deliberately left to implementation" i don't have where to.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: but you don't think there may be a problem with flood of messages in the network across all "channels" / topics? it'd be neat if there was a way for a node to specify that it's only interested in things (specified by prefix, as in your example) under #trilema
a111: Logged on 2016-09-07 23:51 asciilifeform: this happens, just like at your university, in the manner the elders decide. and not the manner the novice prefers.
jurov: Framedragger: irc also floods you with everythign in all channels, it' responisibility of your client to neatly sort it out
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: gotcha. i felt shy because all these other smart people don't comment on the article, damn their restraint
mircea_popescu: moreover nothing prevents emergent/de facto specs. the job of the gossipd spec is to keep people from doing world-breaking idiotic stuff. how they handle their own wives is their own problem.
trinque: one bot saw the other's link.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 09:42 mircea_popescu: !#s buttseks
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 09:32 mircea_popescu: Framedragger be a darling move it to !$ thanks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, truly there isn't, and truly tis a problem. but your question wasn't "hey, shouldn't we have a canonical manual of commands or something ?" to which the answer would have been "go, write" rather than tomato.
trinque: I recommend each bot implements botname: help
trinque: point being then can discover prefixes and commands.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 10:00 mircea_popescu:
http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#76 << i recall explaining then, but i guess it didn't stick : the fact that transactions are malleable means no such thing as a "high only" pool may exist - others can malleate your "high only" txn and mine them as lows. meanwhile network effects prevent you building a mining farm that mines high-s txn : unless you control a significant portion of the hash, you will just mine orphans.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [04:59:38] <asciilifeform> but no takers, mega-surprise.
trinque: new prefixes are worth it in that they allow command name overlap.
trinque: so then no one mine's atop your block, and what
mircea_popescu: (notice also, for the sake of stating the obvious - that what glyphs one's monitor displays is a matter of local configuration ; that if one wishes to type ζ and have a certain bot respond with a search that someone is encouraged to look into macros, keybindings, or whatever solution of this problem his locale prefers ; finally that nothing keeps asciilifeform from getting phf to have a111 behave any arbitrary way in #asciil
mircea_popescu: the "secret tx pool" thing is trivial in theory ; in practice it opens you to a whole cat and mouse game and it didn't seem to me we're there yet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i know. but this is the nominalist axion. you're stuck with some level of simon says
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's to expand though ? the thing with secrets is that someone will be leaking them ; much like the thing with chastity vows. now find him, etc.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 11:44 Framedragger: summary by one lucb1e, "people that can run queries on your MySQL server, either by legit access (shared webhosting or something else) or via an SQL-injection vulnerability, can execute commands that might root your server. Looking at the PoC, it seems possible to overwrite any file that the MySQL user (or whichever user MySQL runs as) can write to."
mircea_popescu: a good part of why "shared hosting" as a fiction for the masses moved to "cloud hosting" as a fiction for the masses being that there was already no way to secure a lamp environment enough to multiuser it.
mircea_popescu: gotta start somewhere. and that somewhere is always the same : everyone steps out of his mother's cunt covered in blood and guts, not to mention shit half the time.
mircea_popescu: "we don't have identity" "well... cattle dun need identity"
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [13:16:34] <trinque> I recommend each bot implements botname: help
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [13:16:53] <mircea_popescu> nah, should answer in pm
mircea_popescu: trinque i know i brought this on myself, but an unsubscribe will be useful so i don't get everything on gossipd spec twice lol
mircea_popescu: and in other irrelevant news, that article's the weirdest thing i ever saw. apparently it attracted huge interest - but is linked virtually nowhere.
mircea_popescu is starting to suspect darknet larger than previously estimated.
mircea_popescu: well, it's the 2nd most read article this month, which i've never seen before for a recent piece.
mircea_popescu: no, we're talking 17k different ips, plenty with garbled or no user agent, so you know. linked behind a password "protected" forum or w/e.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in any case more than what slashdot provides. so there could be a dark slashdot somewhere ?
Framedragger: .onion forums (they still exist, yes) deliberately exclude
http referrer header fwiw
mircea_popescu: incidentally, how the fuck did the "butterfly" misspelling of a flutterby catch on ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (pretty obvious to me : if you run finger over winds, the sensation is of buttery smoothness, esp if expression is restricted to the field of experience at the time.)
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [11:46:17] <Framedragger> and also from the cve, "The vulnerability can be exploited even if security modules SELinux and AppArmor are installed with default active policies for MySQL service on major Linux distributions."
Framedragger: (phenomenological clarity notwithstanding, it's not super clear. word may come from old english butere (wiktionary), but that's only one explanation. no/few cited sources it seems)
mircea_popescu: now you know what "baby i'm spent but if you wanna come over we can watch porn and do the butterfly" means.
Framedragger may have been hinted at this very night. the laziness is sometimes frustratin'!
mircea_popescu: coming next on trilema, a butterfly classification by preferred wrist motion. learn to distinguish the circular girl from the more common sideways girl and the very rare vertical motion girl.
Framedragger: wouldn't exactly object to reading that. girls sometimes are not in the know, either, which is pffft.
mircea_popescu: i was just being facetious! no such article is being prepared! sorry to disappoint.
mircea_popescu: but in the meanwhile, why not try everything see what works. you could call it fuckd-dc
mircea_popescu: (it's also a wonder why they don't teach girls to masturbate in sex ed / have special sherub camps etc.)
Framedragger: entirely unrelated: wouldn't it be somethin' to test out some gossipd ideas over *actual* cheap long wave or whatever wave radio devices between these here people?
mircea_popescu: once we have some sort of acceptabru spec all sorts of prototyping work can begin
mircea_popescu: but honestly, gossipd as a finished product can not possibly come other than with a mesh-over-wifi and mesh-over-radio ready made.
mircea_popescu: as people (alf, mostly) pointed out in the intervening coupla years, there's absolutely no sane reason to marry gossipd to extant-internet, or tcp/ip or etc, as the original draft was trying to
Framedragger: indeed, indeed. hence an itch to try things over radio whilst reading those comments there
mircea_popescu: truth being that this is a historical occasion, with actually correct, well designed internet within grasp
Framedragger: yawell, don't forget, routing is not a trivial problem. this is only the very beginning, i think. an occasion nonetheless though, surely!
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 14:23 Framedragger: i think rtl-sdr dongles may be enough, no?
mircea_popescu: another thing i'd like to see prototyped is quadcopter mediated data exchange. have the guy plug out a usb stick from one back panel, fly it over, plug it into another back panel.
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is quite viable, if the animal spends ten minutes in flight and carries say 32 GB sticks you're looking at
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 32 * 2 ** 30 * 8 / 10 / 60 = 4.581298449066667E8
Framedragger: ah yeah, the "terabytes of USB keys in truck" data rate
mircea_popescu: the thing with the 10minute / 2km range is that in most circumstances, this is a half hour distance. if you have to drive it - gotta park, unpark, holy shit. most people live within 2km of their friends anyway.
Framedragger: cool stuff. same with films, vinyls etc as i understand it
shinohai fondly remembers all-night lan parties in his neighborhood.
Framedragger: there exist very small HABs with basically just a transmitter/repeater and super small solar cell, fwiw
Framedragger: i think you may be disappoint at the amount of stationkeeping time you can do on quadcopter or w/e, even with a large solar cell which then surely will render a larger radar profile; but maybe i'm mistaken - interesting
Framedragger: asciilifeform: a month >> "stationkeeping time", so there's that. and they can be super cheap. and mass-produced. a HAB army anyone?
trinque: why chopper rather than small plane
trinque: same-ish size, but generates lift.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the beauty of bitcoin is that it actually allows one to permissionlessly serve.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i wanted it to stay put i'd simply add a baloon.
mircea_popescu: this is calculable, energy loss to course correction vs energy saved from buoyancy.
mircea_popescu: also top of balloon makes the perfect surface for solar cells.
Framedragger: microhabs are like a chip with cell, mass in grams
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the copter itself would be most of the mass.
mircea_popescu: anyway. this sketch of a discussion should suffice to show that the enemy has no hope of ever getting a perimeter around the network again.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ideally you want it to empty the balloon and return "home" sometime.
mircea_popescu: shinohai i don't think anyone seriously contemplates importing the aferations of random soi dissant sovereigns.
mircea_popescu: re plane vs chopper : afaik per watt, chopper offers more flight than plane.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as implicit here, "be a station in flight"
mircea_popescu: eh, the plane-to-glider conversion is a sort of "my car is also a submarine"
BingoBoingo: <Framedragger> unless, you know, you removed the copter! << THermocouple, epoxy, car exhaust!
mircea_popescu: yeah BingoBoingo is right, we also had the "add to people's cars, without asking the people, have it powered from heat exchange etc"
mircea_popescu: also, a chopper fleet able to do anon cctv takeout missions is something with a future.
mircea_popescu: the expense of servicing cameras is getting crew to mount pole etc. not the parts. the parts are all cheap - great satan just prints to cover.
mircea_popescu: and coupled with gossipd, it becomes impossible to establish "whose chopper this is". owner reports his choppers stolen, good luck "enforcing".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh, what, it can't handle a few g's ? why not ?
PeterL:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1539987 << obvious to any schoolchild - insect has ~0 to do with butter, but clearly you can see it flutter as it goes by, therefore many kids have separately come up with genius transform to flutterby
☝︎ a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 14:02 mircea_popescu: incidentally, how the fuck did the "butterfly" misspelling of a flutterby catch on ?
BingoBoingo: PeterL: No, the reverse. Thing should be called Flutterby, but retards insist on calling it butterfly
mircea_popescu: anyway. 38 shot is about 300 W at barrel exit. for a 3kg shooter this translates to say 10 m/s
mircea_popescu: big whoop, over ten seconds friction + your engines reduce it to .5
PeterL: gyroget: cool futuristic weapon that does not actually perform as well as classic rifle. Would have been useful if instead of firing bullet-sized thing would fire slightly larger grenade type thing.
mircea_popescu: hey, warthog does manage to fire those "girl you'd fuck" sized bullets...
mircea_popescu: seems the cannon fires 400gram projectiles, about 70/s. so it expells 30kgs of material per second ; and it weighs 150 tons.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: meanwhile the scheme contemplated here expells 100 grams of material per second, and weighs 3kgs.
mircea_popescu: however, the constraints are material durability and relative density, because the main factor is atmospheric response.
mircea_popescu: also the chopper not being a plane, it can tolerate a lot more than the warthog could.
mircea_popescu: but really - using plastic for a serious (as opposed to toy) chopper is stupid, you want duralumin anyway
mircea_popescu: yeah, but plastic is heavier than duralumin per strength.
mircea_popescu: whatever vynil toy store uses has what, 60 ? if you're lucky and it's very good, pvc has like 15
mircea_popescu: so basically, a beam made of 1kg of plastic could be made of 1gram of duralumin.
mircea_popescu: serious application chopper will be made of aluminum alloy, not vinyl.
mircea_popescu: and a kg of duralumin hull will cut a hole through a pile of plastic choppers.
mircea_popescu: !~later tell diametric do you know of a good reason a 2-3kg chopper couldn't be built on aluminum alloy frame ? not whether it is, nor why afficionado's don't, but whether couldn't.
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: so. that item above : for 200 bucks, can fire a 38. you will have to add some software for it to fire in a convenient direction for itself while also hitting target.
mircea_popescu: in fact, this is a study on ballistics. fire from center of mass at 3pi/4 angle, go for a parabolic ride.
mircea_popescu: (why 45 degrees ? maximum distance. which means maximum friction.)
mircea_popescu: quite reminescent of the "man half penis" medieval things.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 15:53 asciilifeform: heads, leucrota, manticores, vultures, paranders, weasels, dragons, hoopoes, owls, basilisks, hypnales, presters, spectafici, scorpions, saurians, whales, scitales, amphisbenae, iaculi, dipsases, green lizards, pilot fish, octopi, morays, and sea turtles.' -- eco's 'name of the rose'
mircea_popescu: ancient marine warfare thing. like linked shot but smaller.
mircea_popescu: basically "cannonball made of chain, unwraps in flight."
PeterL: why not just drop bullet from above rather than firing?
PeterL: how high would it need to be to be lethal?
PeterL: (I probably calculated that in HS physics class, but I am too lazy now)
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1000 * 2 / 2 / 10 = 100
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 1000 ** 2 / 2 / 10 = 50000
mircea_popescu: 50km gives you 1000 m/s (ie, gau-8 muzzle velocity) for arbitrary item discounting air friction.
PeterL: add some fins to get it spinning, avoids tumbling
a111: Logged on 2015-02-14 05:25 asciilifeform: 'You can drop a mouse down a thousand-yard mine shaft; and, on arriving at the bottom, it gets a slight shock and walks away, provided that the ground is fairly soft. A rat is killed, a man is broken, a horse splashes.'
PeterL: looks like a bullet terminal velocity is about 100 m/s, so you would reach that anywhere over 500 m.
PeterL: not saying it is new, just that it might help with quadcopter armaments, using gravity to assist rather than trying to think of shooting like guy standing on ground
PeterL: I guess if it is cheap enough/target is high value that could be useful
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: So. Turns out your Drone thing is a reality.
thestringpuller: i kno. but i've talked with a hobbyist turned "professional" and does discreet delivery with drones in this manner. they've gotten highly advanced.
thestringpuller: his master idea is having a mobile charging network for long distance flights
ben_vulpes: could be ~entirely autonomous barring loading of landing strip coordinates
ben_vulpes: small market of remote delivery could be served by a fleet of autonomous, gas-fueled fixed-wings.
ben_vulpes: make the recipient fuel 'em back up, what
ben_vulpes: "discreen delivery with drones in this manner" is a quadcopter per the guardian link
trinque: said a bunch of vague and refueling in spookyquotes
ben_vulpes: and just how does one 'refuel' a qc in flight, hot swap lipo?
ben_vulpes: do please cite where you said anything re fixed wing or ice
thestringpuller: the ArduPlane project is old af, but requires actual brain to use.
thestringpuller: "drone" is a general term ben_vulpes NO NEED to get all riled up
ben_vulpes: "drone" is a made up product category by mattel
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> discreet 2 stroke! << :Launch and Retrieval vehicles double as lawcare truck!
PeterL: I thought "drone" was just a less-TLA-y version of "UAV"?
thestringpuller: For one two stroke engine planes are from the fucking 50's. Those are antiques. Most advanced hobbyist used nitro powered planes. They are slightly noisier than RC model, but given how high you can fly them in practice it's kinda whatever. Second, the autonomous part has been around since the arduino became "mainstream" albeit asciilifeform may find it a snore fest the APM unit can fully control an RC plane. If programmed properly it
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: But large amounts of nitro fuel can not be excused as "occupational necessity" as 2-cycle gas/oil mix can.
thestringpuller: You'll see a few muthafuckers with those things on the airfield. I dunno how "reliable" they are tho. Then again, I'm not enough of a pilot to even call myself a hobbyist.
thestringpuller: The only reason the RC plane-UAV dropoff service became a thing was due to insurmountable traffic.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [15:46:35] <asciilifeform> and in particular, '...a large bird such as an eagle or kite does not keep in the air mainly by moving its wings. It is generally to be seen soaring, that is to say balanced on a rising column of air. And even soaring becomes more and more difficult with increasing size. Were this not the case eagles might be as large as tigers and as formidable to
scriba: man as hostile aeroplanes.'
thestringpuller: was a joke. the one you sent is a pretty advanced version :P
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [16:01:39] <ben_vulpes> and just how does one 'refuel' a qc in flight, hot swap lipo?
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: large amounts of nitro fuel << hobby shops don't seem to care. People go through barrels of the thing during a nerdy weekend with friends on the airfield.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Yes, but when going out to landing strip one doesn't deal with shopkeeps. WHich is why you need to have stringtimmers on truck.
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the usb-bandwidth drone could in principle be designed with two batteries. it starts using one, then when dead moves to other. and design could allow for drone tango - where they connect, as per ancient thread with alf, to make bigger drone - which could conceivably allow them to swap batteries, in a strange sort of robomating dance)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: Um. I met a hobbyist once who spent 10 grand on a plane. Point for Traffic Delivery Bypasser is to be resusable not "disposable".
mircea_popescu: i paranthesized mostly for the ... robomorphical interest. SEX! for machines! increases their lifespan, just like for people, but differently.
mircea_popescu: "why do drones prefer to fuck young drones ?" "fresher batteries"
mircea_popescu: incidentally, what's the current list of public trb nodes ? i have -connect=108.31.170.49 54.187.227.228 46.166.165.30 91.218.246.31 172.86.178.46 50.168.67.12 of which a coupla be answering.
mircea_popescu: oh and re the "it's not hillary" conspiracy theory : it'd be fucking epic if they actually... switcher her with trump. "you dun wanna vote for clinton ? fine, vote for trump then!"
shinohai: From tardstalk "News: Due to DDoS attacks, there may be periodic downtime."
mircea_popescu: yeah imagine that, you'd expect obama'd have upgraded to a recent model sometime in the past 8 years.
BingoBoingo: At is age and weight the edema has likely already capon-ized his cajones. All that's left of historical Trump the bankruptcy artist is a stimulant habit and sorry for his loss.
BingoBoingo: lol, next time I gotta make the "candidates are old" declaration in press will have to wheel that out.
phf: asciilifeform: are you using breadboarded/soldered version, or you ended up printing the pcb too for the keyboard controller?
☟︎ phf: i was thinking of just doing a mess of wires, but there was that shop floating around in the logs, that would print a pcb for you and put chips on it
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
PeterL: phf is there a way to make search on logs non-case sensitive?
phf: PeterL: not until i fix the algorithm, that was on my backlog but got overtaken with all the stability issues
phf: i wanted to fix the unicode search in the process, but i'll punt on that for one. it kind of works, but not surprisingly doing boyer-moore correctly with unicode is ugly and suboptimal.
phf: like in that russian joke "i got two"
phf: picked them up from a retrohardware person i know. pretty sure i burned some respect points for being "the retrokeyboard faggot"
phf: both are 6110xxx, but i'll know for sure once i start poking at them. in either case they were free
phf: i'm having hard time figuring out how to even raise those legs without repainting
phf: nah, i'm just going to dremel the thing and replace it with cherry switches
phf: i think the goal really is to read paino forte from capacitance. at fortississimo keyboard should start injecting random "fuck" and "motherfucker" into stream as you type
thestringpuller: phf: Did you see the raid on that camp at burning man? Shit's gotten crazy there. Inhouse fighting.
phf: didn't see the raid itself, but yeah much talk was about it on arrival
phf: bezzlers come to burn, pay for overpriced accommodations, act like assholes. this year one of those overpriced accommodations places got raided. water tank poured onto audio equipment, electric lines cut, tires punctured, etc.
thestringpuller: out of the other 70k people a group of them were probably like "fuck deez guys" went ot their camp and fucked it up
thestringpuller: 70k people go to burning man and establish camps. a small few who aren't really burners just, SF-folk who wanna do drugs and "party" would buy rvs and stuff
thestringpuller: and then have basically burning man "Hotel style" which fine, but it was a "closed camp" which
thestringpuller: is considered extremely rude to the hippie folk who embrace the spirit and principles of burning man
phf: asciilifeform: well, i don't know the details of "white ocean" camp in question, but it usually involved souped up rv's, a staff of paid employees to do your cooking for you, often direct flight from wherever to black rock city airport, etc.
phf: asciilifeform: sort of nobody cares if you're reach, but there's already been tension between people who are roughing it and people who are doing it in comfort.
PeterL: "Glamping" instead of "camping"
thestringpuller: phf: well when you commodify the experience it goes against the spirit of the thing.
phf: thestringpuller: burning man is not a TAZ, so i've no idea what you're talking about
thestringpuller: phf: Decommodification In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships
phf: asciilifeform: the california weirdo concept from which "burning man" sprung up.
thestringpuller: from >> burningman.org/culture/philosophical-center/10-principles
thestringpuller: full thing: "In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience."
thestringpuller: ^- the camp in question was turning the experience into a commodity...
ben_vulpes: yeah i mean if you buy that i've got a ticket to this other desert festival to sell ya
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [16:59:58] <asciilifeform> dunno about you BingoBoingo but i'm lookin' forward to the sovgeriatric era of usa
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [18:07:19] <phf> i think the goal really is to read paino forte from capacitance. at fortississimo keyboard should start injecting random "fuck" and "motherfucker" into stream as you type
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [18:31:52] <thestringpuller> 70k people go to burning man and establish camps. a small few who aren't really burners just, SF-folk who wanna do drugs and "party" would buy rvs and stuff
mircea_popescu: sane country'd have rounded up the 70k people, beat the shit out of them, made them re-make audio equipment, tyres etc by hand
mircea_popescu: the fucking entitlement in that land, it's something else by now.
mircea_popescu: optionality follows wealth not will. this is a point young dicklets love to eschew, which is why violence is a societal requirement.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [18:35:03] <phf> asciilifeform: sort of nobody cares if you're reach, but there's already been tension between people who are roughing it and people who are doing it in comfort.
thestringpuller: there are plenty of rich people who go to burns with open camps :P
mircea_popescu: for the same money they could try to become a cat-dragon or w/e. try with all their might, they still don't get to.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller optionality follows wealth not will. rich people can do whatever they want. poorfags however - poorfag.
mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what the point is once money walks in.
mircea_popescu: ie, they're upset at the lucky crabs, not at the guy putting them all in the pot.
mircea_popescu: if were gonna pour water, could as well poured it there as here.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: ideally a burn is based on willing participants following a set of principles i.e. decommodification. Traditionally this results in wealth being "non existent". But ideals and actuality are usually different.
mircea_popescu: anyway. an inept, unskilled AND DISOBEDIENT populace. in the quaint words of the virgin mary, "holy shit dude"
mircea_popescu: but children and young adults are different populations. i only fuck the latter.
mircea_popescu: so yes, if need be or fancy strikes, i will break through the delusions of interesting piece of meat.
mircea_popescu: that i am one of the few (hopefully i'm not the only one!) who also bestows the gift of cognition in the process does not change the fact.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what else could it conceivably be used for ? you gonna hire people for your sf start-up ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose at a young age merely rubbing on a large aggregate of human bodies counts as a use.
phf: fwiw, we're not talking about mp coming to the burn and fucking shit up
mircea_popescu: but with time it becomes uninteresting, and then tedious.
mircea_popescu: phf yeah i know, buncha fucktards on mom's credit card, elliot wanna-bes.
phf: it's very much an act from cause place by design, and if mp comes as mp and does his mp thing, only people who will complain should and must be fucked with.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem is evidently that the few were afraid of the many ; and the many smelled this and fucked them. wealth isn't actually involved, tis a matter of fear.
phf: bm has always been bezzle rich, it's the big party for jwzs, and the actual confrontation is between bezzle rich san francisco hippies who "get it" and bezzle rich new york preppies who want their van fulls of paid-for bored and disinterested supermodels
phf: the core of the argument "if you bring your supermodel, she must be covered in alkaline dust by friday, otherwise she looks `too clean`"
mircea_popescu: yeah right, because i'm going to fuck roadkill to pacify the natives now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at a young enough age though, it easily passes for "age specific idiocy" and you don't notice.
trinque: thestringpuller: where the fuck is this "decommodification [sic]" in the ticket price of going, lol
trinque: shouldn't it be free because wealth is bad?
trinque: they don't get to apply the filter of cost and then deny it!
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: contemptible money
jhvh1: Last 12 lines bashed and pending publication
mircea_popescu is very happy he sat down to try and pin down that spec.
trinque: mircea_popescu: nope. you have to buy a ticket to go to equality camp.
trinque: dunno how or if they police it. I don't go.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, i was recently invited at some "theatric performance" in a very nice old building here, i suppose the local best-effort equivalent of one of those ny things, artsy chicks daughters/wives of lawyers etc.
mircea_popescu: we show up, it's like a locked door. but i happen to know the doorman, so he opens up and we go in, at which point girly wants... to see id.
mircea_popescu: i tell her i dun have any ; she explains that... "it's not her rules". i turn around, ask guy to open door as we're leaving, they go frenzied on the phones, eventually girly is like "no problem, no problem".
mircea_popescu: we didn't stay anyway, i have a very short tolerance for pompous idiocy these days. but i imagine the whole "ticket to go to desert camp" must be very much the same thing. what, they got chicken wire around the perimeter and watchtowers ?
phf: it's a very large and flat desert, there's no "just walking in" without being noticed. all they need to do is line of sight the perimeter more often than it'll take you to get to perimeter
mircea_popescu: gensets for spotlights for to make sure gets $$$ from ustards ?
phf: a moving object on such a flat space will light up with even most cursory of sweeps, so you can keep the whole concentration camp aspect under the radar
mircea_popescu: what if you park your van right NEXT to their invisible fence, and start giving out free beer for tits ?
phf: i think the way it works is that bmorg technically rents out the entire black rock desert, and then puts the festival somewhere in the center
mircea_popescu: that this affair hasn't spontaneously degenerated into about 500 different, vaguely connected camps is testament to the sheer and amazing lack of testosterone in that population.
phf: usg, as represented by bureau of land management
mircea_popescu: and you'd better not say "us govt" because then i expect proper bidding yes ?
phf: i suspect blm are the first one to get your
mircea_popescu: so how much btc would it cost me to organize burning man instead of "bmorg" whatever the fuck that is.
mircea_popescu: that this hasn't deteriorated into an endless battle of injunctions is even more shocking. bejewels, not even the lawyers work in the us anymore ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: almost worth it to do it and then exclude all black people.
phf: i suspect nobody cares enough to bid on a desert at $7 million bezzles, what would be the appeal?
mircea_popescu: what's worse, to outbid teh inspektion der konzentrationslager and then insult the ~11.5% slice or the ~2.5% slice ?
phf: it's already the de facto rule. i think i saw maybe 5 black people in the whole 7 days. (one said that his nickname is "nerdy digger")
mircea_popescu: or you know, not gays because chicks might not show up. how about transshitheads and people with disabilities.
mircea_popescu: lose out on that whole "i want to fuck a quadriplegic" crowd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you should prolly write a lighthouse thingamajig spec and ping trilema.
Framedragger: (heh nice nod to uk nuclear submarine policy asciilifeform)
deedbot: kenpat07 voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: i guess the idea is that you do "$help" and all the bots harass you with pm's of what they can do?
trinque: why do I need to see your command that results in PMs ?
trinque: send the bot in question a "help" pm
shinohai: asciilifeform: mine has page coming soon 9tm0
shinohai: You dont like individual help commands?
shinohai: I'm just following republic consensus accord to the laws of the bickening
trinque: the prefixes were a good idea *because people's fucking bots wont stay up*
trinque: and I can for example implement everything everyone else has over time and when theirs goes away, we shrug
trinque: I'm not adding a bunch of retarded state to my bot to be polite to phf's et al
trinque: would if freenode weren't a lying sack of hanno
trinque: but it'll just mean later someone says to me "a111 was gone and deedbot silent, fuck you!"
trinque: then later we're on gossipd and "online" doesn't mean anything
trinque: asciilifeform: so I have to mother-may-i to each other bot then
trinque: lol, oh fuck we're about to concensus protocol!
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 13:58 mircea_popescu: no, we're talking 17k different ips, plenty with garbled or no user agent, so you know. linked behind a password "protected" forum or w/e.
phf: PeterL: search now case insensitive, but for english only. lmk if there are still issues. i kind of hacked it up by mapping A-Z to a-z during read. pretty sure last time i read the paper i had some elegant solution in mind, but it's been so long, i've forgotten what it was
phf: proper unicode search (rather than octet matchin, the way it's doing it now) particularly with case-insensitivity takes like 40% performance hit.. so deferring on it for now
phf: hmm, i'm thinking maybe "grep" search should stay case-sensitive..
jhvh1: Last 8 lines bashed and pending publication
trinque: wow, how did I ever manage in one go
trinque: so hatch chiles, they're delicious
trinque: chopped a bunch of them and went ahead and touched my eye
trinque: where does putting hatch chile on my dick before sex fall in the prank to assault continuum?
deedbot: kenpat06 voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: holy shit did you get a bouncer?
ben_vulpes: i went to later you and your nick completed
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 03:05 pete_dushenski is glad to see ben_vulpes blogging again
ben_vulpes: pdx insider baseball. twitter account in question is a good bit of "ted wheeler is a rich white out of touch dipshit" agitprop.
a111: Logged on 2014-03-11 17:30 mike_c: wheeler & dealer
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: bits and pieces. it's well over my paygrade.
pete_dushenski: speaking of which, phf could a111 read out url titles ? or has mp nixed this function ?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: anyways, why do you ask about the mega-thread ?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:08:38] <phf> i guess the idea is that you do "$help" and all the bots harass you with pm's of what they can do?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:30:19] <asciilifeform> what if i want ~all~ ?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:33:04] <asciilifeform> not if i have nfi where to send'em, shinohai
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 09:28 mircea_popescu: should have a proper list of commands rather than a few words description of what it does though.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#949 << not just that ; but botmastering threatens to become a rite of passage. i'd much rather go from 1 to 2chars control seq now, when the inconvenience is mostly baseless bitching ; than in 18 months, when i actually run out of single chars and moving is the worst utter nightmare
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:36:00] <trinque> the prefixes were a good idea *because people's fucking bots wont stay up*
phf: pete_dushenski: i'm sure there's a whole bunch of people who'd want to implement url reading, i suspect it's first come first served
pete_dushenski: it came to me not in a dream but just as i was falling asleep. i didn't write the 'bot directory' idea down because... same reason einstein didn't carry notebook
phf: pete_dushenski: don't you have a bot running? maybe a way for you to reclaim that lordship ;)
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:37:23] <trinque> I'm not adding a bunch of retarded state to my bot to be polite to phf's et al
pete_dushenski: phf: hehe i don't have a bot atm. though by xmas i'll be in better shape to take that on.
mircea_popescu: i suspect we'll have no url readers ; with the exception that all logreaders may read the line in their own www.
☟︎ scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:49:09] <phf> proper unicode search (rather than octet matchin, the way it's doing it now) particularly with case-insensitivity takes like 40% performance hit.. so deferring on it for now
mircea_popescu: i'm certainly against if it means significant performance degradation for proper alphabet searches.
phf: later ones are picking up the searches themselves
mircea_popescu: phf i know, i'm just thorn whether quoted should be case sensitive or not. aanyway, minor point.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160912/#993 << i had a very pleasantly mild red hot chilli in a stu last week. cut it in hand, above the pot as it was simmering. thought nothing of it, ate the stu, moved on with life. that night, i took a hot bath, and i drew the conclusion my hand had somehow gone frostbitten indoors.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [22:04:15] <asciilifeform> !#s chemists wash
mircea_popescu: eventually girls figure out it's the chilli. crazy shit.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [22:06:45] <trinque> where does putting hatch chile on my dick before sex fall in the prank to assault continuum?
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [21:33:04] <asciilifeform> not if i have nfi where to send'em, shinohai
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 22:46 mircea_popescu: i suspect we'll have no url readers ; with the exception that all logreaders may read the line in their own www.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes pretty lulzy but some would benefit from a strategic misspelling or two.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-12 21:39 shinohai: !~help.bash
shinohai: i still got a few bugs to iron out, so patience is appreciated.
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-12: [22:40:57] <phf> pete_dushenski: i'm sure there's a whole bunch of people who'd want to implement url reading, i suspect it's first come first served
mircea_popescu actually took the trouble of specifying asciilifeform 's disorganised-six-comment-idea , lemme know if i fucked it up.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: she probably has the kind of pneu-monia typical of those with a, ahem, spare tire
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: At her age aspiration pneumonia is a concern. As a Clintion chemical induced pneumonia can not be dismissed either. Even a fungal Aspergillis infection is possible due to dope smoking.
pete_dushenski: it's prolly also been a while (decades?) since hillary went for a jog or had a good shagging
deedbot: covertress voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: That's why I'd put a bet on aspiration pneumonia from inhaling food and beverages