log☇︎
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asciilifeform: so gossipd is posed to be the first live-fire open air rape of this usg directorate.
asciilifeform: (it was crucial missing piece for gossipd)
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 01:00 Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all
mircea_popescu: it's a pretty dumb solution to a gossipd problem, so only if it's very little work
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-21#1486188 << quite likely never, we will have gossipd and dispense with the lunacy of centralized wot before then. ☝︎
mod6: so it would be something like: /v/, /trb/, /t/, /gossipd/ or whatever.
ben_vulpes: 2016, "put moxie marlinspike in gossipd!"
Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all ☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 00:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481339 << a correct gossipd node processed NOT ONE BYTE unless it is covered by a signature traceable to a known peer.
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481381 << would the scheme of gossipd in your mind as it currently stands allow for signatures by a non-permanent gpg key (by something akin to ephemeral key)? identity (of communicating party) integrity would be within the decrypted contents; but not ascertainable by message header (here's gpg id 0xbabe) ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481339 << a correct gossipd node processed NOT ONE BYTE unless it is covered by a signature traceable to a known peer. ☝︎☟︎
Framedragger: both, i suppose, or either would be interesting. gossipd probably provides decent constraints and framework for thought, so might as well stick to that
mircea_popescu: (if you mean, in gossipd. if you mean in general... ouf, complicated issue.)
mircea_popescu: you ever got to read the many discussions re gossipd in log ? this part is there.
asciilifeform: and certainly not invented by usg stooge, it was in my comment series under mircea_popescu's original gossipd article.
Framedragger: in other news, am casually looking into perfect forward secrecy in *asynchronous* communications. this *may* turn out to be relevant for gossipd enthusiasts and connoisseurs in the long run, too. the most simple way appears to be for nodes to generate a bunch of "pre-keys" (halves of ephemeral key exchange), and store/cache them somewhere (obvs signed by their permanent identity key), a la https://whispersystems.org/blog/asynchronous-sec
mircea_popescu: (uci) -> (gossipd) -> (user).
mircea_popescu: the obvious pill being, of course, point to point encryption via uci on top of end to end encryption via gossipd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually this should work as a proper tor relay for gossipd.
asciilifeform: and flows from gossipd.
asciilifeform: 'great library' is eminently possible, just waiting on gossipd.
asciilifeform: e.g., gossipd.
BingoBoingo: Also riverboats for Gossipd on the water.
BingoBoingo: Gossipd over freight car graffiti
a111: Logged on 2015-01-07 04:44 artifexd: I would think that instead of a list of ip addresses you would have a list of pubkeys and each pubkey has one (or more) ip addresses assigned to it. When you start up gossipd, it calls out to all the ip addresses in the lists and says "I'm bob, proven by this signature. Prove you are alice, with cryptoproof". If the answering box responds appropriately,
Framedragger: i suppose there's no true need, but have you considered moving to a new/different irc network? or can that wait till gossipd saves the internet?
mircea_popescu: there's at least a dozen disparate, independently useful items that go into a gossipd.
asciilifeform: and gossipd is considerably more general than a chat, it is to be a complete replacement for tcp/ip and packet switching as ordinarily understood.
Framedragger: gossipd is more of a federated social chat system i guess
Framedragger: is this https://github.com/luanjunyi/gossipd at all related to the gossipd as proposed on trilema?
mircea_popescu: (but since we digressed - and this ineptitude leads them into all sorts of lulz. for instance, SPEECH was protected by constitution. as in, the activity of gossipd. not WRIT, such as an imaginary right to publish slander. etc.)
mircea_popescu: i'm just saying, the way communication works irl is precisely like contemplated gossipd scheme, and exactly NOT like bbs/irc/webetc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where on planet gossipd do we find equivalent of ' mircea_popescu and asciilifeform in a channel of 10,000 people they don't know '
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no such thing as "to X Y", gossipd being a pairwise protocol.
mircea_popescu: which is what gossipd is supposed to be.
mircea_popescu: so : the genesis message, ie, the first communication between a pair (gossipd is a pairwise comms mechanism) includes 10 keys.
mircea_popescu: gossipd is not server-client
asciilifeform: well actually you need an irc client to operate (my draft of) gossipd
mircea_popescu: i was thinking, "and hopefully it's called gossipd"
mircea_popescu: quite like gossipd works yes
trinque: yeah, not to be a broken record, but had we a gossipd, I'd just give people I trust access to dangerous tools.
mircea_popescu: obviously once gossipd is an actual thing, the only way to talk to your boxen becomes gossipd.
mircea_popescu: basically reduces to gossipd yet again huh.
trinque: so then, perhaps *I* own a computer and he may use it via gossipd if he doesn't piss me off
trinque: gossipd-net?
asciilifeform: as for 'non-repudiability post-hoc', see the epic gossipd thread in the logz.
mircea_popescu: this even worked, back before gossipd.
mircea_popescu: we're prolly going to actually need gossipd before we have it.
trinque: I agree with that; there's no solution other than gossipd
asciilifeform: gossipd article was pretty much complete
trinque: then my gossipd deednode chatters about rating deeds to mike_c after x confirmations
mircea_popescu: diana_coman maybe by the time that's on the plate, we actually change in-game chat to gossipd.
mircea_popescu: trinque> seems the voice model pairs with gossipd rather well, where voicing is a matter of message forwarding rules << it doesn't even pair, it IS it. substance of the universe, not even protocol.
trinque: seems the voice model pairs with gossipd rather well, where voicing is a matter of message forwarding rules
mircea_popescu: trinque> next step ought be gossipd neh? <<< yes. but you know... no cipher yet even.
trinque: next step ought be gossipd neh?
asciilifeform: every man HAD BETTER be prepared to 'write own torah' - because gossipd.
asciilifeform: i kinda wonder how this would be going down if we were using gossipd.
mircea_popescu: a model mirrored in the itnended design of gossipd.
assbot: 0 results for '"tag-gossipd-cipher"' - #bitcoin-assets search
mircea_popescu: technically this exists already, actually, we could do tag-gossipd-cipher and then http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=%22tag-gossipd-cipher%22
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432824 << suppose instead of runnign off to some sort of centralism, you just use the tools available ? they're here for this purpose ; you've seen them at work. gossipd didn't come out of the void, but out of practice based on philosophy honed with practice built on philosophy and so on and again numerous iterations over the years. ☝︎
jurov: i wonder what alf will do when he receives inevitable cease and desist letter wrt gossipd/ada/anythingelse patents
PeterL: also: gossipd implementation, pgp implementation, bitcoin implementation, kramer-shoop implementation, lisp implementation, c compiler, etc
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ? << how about quantum money ?
mircea_popescu: purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ?
mircea_popescu: so you want to have a proper meld here, gossipd-bitcoin
BingoBoingo: What, no faith in hawalla over gossipd? or a well-designed altcoin ever happening?
asciilifeform: (tldr: hawala over gossipd. an end to the 'anyone is a bank' dream.)
asciilifeform: mats: the idea is, a kind of line-speed (GB ethernet) wall, where crud goes in, and valid in-wot gossipd out. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: because the counterparty in this conversation is not thinking of gossipd as a device but a proggy that runs on a computer.
PeterL: trinque: I wonder if we ever get gossipd to replace freenode, will we still have these sorts of connection problems?
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2016 21:09:39; mircea_popescu: but once this is done, the "network outside of gossipd" becomes a mere fiction.
mircea_popescu: the whole point of gossipd, as i was trying to explain it to that torhead dude, is that you can't know.
mircea_popescu: but once this is done, the "network outside of gossipd" becomes a mere fiction. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and gossipd is specifically not a solution to hermetically seal the network.
mircea_popescu: for now curl - after victory, gossipd!
mircea_popescu: eventually you'll have gossipd and will want gossipd-based networking
asciilifeform: the correct way to arrange this crippled gossipd affair is as an mpex-like network of proxies
asciilifeform: 2) the kind that is behind impenetrable and entirely nonpublic wall, a la gossipd, and deals only with cryptoidentifiable peers.
PeterL: just needs a bot here and listening to gossipd to transmit messages between platforms, right?
jurov: gossipd will have irc interface?
trinque: I'll have this done just in time to switch to gossipd
ben_vulpes: more to the point with artifexd he bit off gossipd, claimed progress, and then vanished.
mircea_popescu: the only assurance to be had here comes from a gossipd model. where anyone could have written the plaintext, and for all anyone POORLY CONNECTED knows, they probably did. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: consider what happened in gossipd when i said the line above : "<mircea_popescu> you don't know who he has in his contacts.". buncha nodes that i know went "we heard mp say so" to their downlist
mircea_popescu: anyway, the model gossipd is supposed to use is, you pass along traffic to your peers, if you're satisfied that it comes from either youself or a peer. it's a sort of messaging-over-wot. exactly like v works.
assbot: 239 results for 'gossipd' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gossipd
mircea_popescu: !s gossipd
mircea_popescu: you should prolly also look into the vaporware that still is gossipd.
ascii_butugychag: as discussed in the gossipd thread.
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396374 << if i can't encrypt a 512byte udp (or file off the protocol number as per gossipd thread) single-packet-hello turd, it's useless ☝︎
phf: so in my gossipd attempt i'm basically just slinging gpg packets over the wire. have a little state machine that reads/validates openpgp packets from the wire. that doesn't work for streams though.. (in before eww)
asciilifeform: which is why i predict that bitcoin is condemned to migrate behind the very tall fortress walls of something like gossipd
mircea_popescu: (for one thing : if IT could find the right ones, add that to gossipd and we have essentially built passive autonomous system software, ie, the evil ai.)
thestringpuller: does scheduler require gossipd, or could it be based on manually inputted list from user?
thestringpuller: looks like trb will have gossipd support?
asciilifeform: i've held off attempting to do anything about this because 'usg can diddle packets arbitrarily, we need gossipd' but there is no particular logic to this.
punkman: I like how retroshare provides a platform for various p2p applications, I hope whoever builds #ba-gossipd won't make it too IRC-oriented
mircea_popescu: punkman notably, the one difference between this and gossipd is that it really doesn't require so much trust. the paramount question isn't to make it possible for derps to safely exchange child porn or whatever, the paramount question is to make it possible to run a chan without having to bow down to an isp providing server space.