mircea_popescu: "Someone once claimed to me that the problems with standards work is that the process is so exhausting that no one who ever finishes the task wants to try another, so everyone involved is always brand new and no knowledge ever propagates from cycle to cycle. This isn’t literally true, but there is still some truth to it." << and THE REASON FOR THIS is that, quote from same source, "This is a story about personal hist
mircea_popescu: ory and growth. It might on occasion appear to portray certain individuals—primarily myself, but perhaps others—in an unflattering light. Part of the point of this paper is that we have each grown through our respective experiences. There is no intent to disparage anyone."
mircea_popescu: but many comments! visits! uniques! Social media! progress! apple could buy russia!
mircea_popescu: tell you what - the problem is not unlike "getting mp to look at bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: in the form of sane people and an impressive channel to join into.
mircea_popescu: "ne day while working with the MACSYMA group, I was around when someone was assigning offices—or desks, really, since offices were generally shared. “Where is mine?” I asked, somewhat jokingly. As far as I knew, only graduate students were entitled to offices. The person doing the arranging didn’t realize I was joking and responded in seriousness that he didn’t know and would try to find one for me. Of course
mircea_popescu: , I immediately went to the several other undergraduates working on the same project and said, “they don’t know we’re not supposed to have offices.” But soon we all did have offices, or at least desks in offices with dedicated VT52 terminals atop them. My office was shared with Guy Steele, co-inventor of the SCHEME programming language, and JonL White, author and maintainer of the MACLISP compiler.
mircea_popescu: I spent nearly all of my hours at the Lab, often to the detriment of my class work, which is why I took 5 years to graduate. During my time there, I worked mostly for credit, only very occasionally for tiny amounts of money—about $5 per hour for a small number of hours a week programming MACSYMA, as I recall. Most of my time was as a volunteer, and in that time I did some additional work on MACSYMA but also some pers
mircea_popescu: During all of this, I picked up a lot of trivia about the MACLISP language, which was not very well-documented. David Moon had written a manual a few years earlier, but it was out of date and featured primarily the Honeywell Multics implementation of MACLISP, not the PDP10 implementation. Also, as it happened, Don Knuth had just come out with TEX typesetting language and I was looking for possible uses for it, so I att
mircea_popescu: empted to set up some formats for writing a manual. When that produced something pleasant to look at, it occurred to me that I should just make a whole manual about MACLISP."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25183 @ 0.00057136 = 14.3886 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "As of next Thursday, ITS will be flushed in favor of TOPS-10. Please update your programs."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just so you know, ima refer to this thing liberally whenever you bitch at me about things.
mircea_popescu: "Much later, in 1993, the specific online design processes we used were later studied and written up by researchers at the MIT Sloan School [Yates93]." << word.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo " for it's New Madrid, Missouri smelter " << ty fxd
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the definition of "nonstandard tx" is iffy.
mircea_popescu: so far it'd be a knob connected to not very much. once we have an actually meaningful protocol, then.
☟︎ BingoBoingo thinks rather than 'malleus II' this would be 'malleus differentpersonium'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28900 @ 0.00056712 = 16.3898 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6755 @ 0.00056712 = 3.8309 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26133 @ 0.00056357 = 14.7278 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00056624 = 8.2954 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00057179 = 6.4898 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: "At least, if you pay Apple’s premium for Apple design, you do get more design than you get from Microsoft, Google and other laptop manufacturers. It’s not design created in your interest or for your convenience, but there certainly is plenty of it."
assbot: Guidelines for the use and interpretation of assays for monitoring autophagy (3rd edition). - PubMed - NCBI ... (
http://bit.ly/1T2A4Q8 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00057615 = 2.8231 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00057661 = 5.6508 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6244 @ 0.00057695 = 3.6025 BTC [+]
gribble: Current Blocks: 397535 | Current Difficulty: 1.4411644784734866E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: None | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
punkman: diff only tripled last 12months, bitcoin's dead
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 16:20:52; punkman: terminal: just salty that we didn't buy mp's cheap eth
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:42:56; BingoBoingo: Spoiler alert, it was a trap.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Nah, blew too much money on that when I was drinking. Gotta hodl.
shinohai: I stay away from the Bitcoin ladies meself. Gotta save and buy new equips.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 04:30:17; mircea_popescu: so far it'd be a knob connected to not very much. once we have an actually meaningful protocol, then.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ALready got it deployed and refresh banlist occasionally. Just like the lulz of their image only existing for single AWS site in Oregon.
BingoBoingo: Seriously, because fuck Dave who buys old mining equipment at a loss and has his powerbill paid by Satan
BingoBoingo: Dave, lesser partner previous asic scam venture fronts it.
BingoBoingo: Back in late 2012 there were 4 kinda serious presenting operations promising Asics. Asicminer, Avalon, and BFL. Dave was with the other one.
BingoBoingo: Blame for the failure went to the venture's major partner Tom
☟︎ punkman: except it no longer "actually works"?
ben_vulpes: takes a rather lot to override apple-scale stockholm
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:01:24; ben_vulpes: takes a rather lot to override apple-scale stockholm
ben_vulpes: not apple stockholm i suppose nearly so much as usa stockholm
ben_vulpes: i for instance just bought three of the things, but only because of the Apple Developer Ratchet
ben_vulpes: i need a workstation for doing work, and a comms box for doing comms.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:35:02; punkman: diff only tripled last 12months, bitcoin's dead
shinohai not having much SSD experience.
mircea_popescu: but then because of that very increase, ironically, even if they eat 2x as much the 2nd year, they can only maange a measly 3x
assbot: Logged on 01-02-2016 23:00:43; BingoBoingo: SSD market pretty much consists on Samsung, Intel, and other firms that just use surplus parts from samsung
shinohai: Good I must be on right track.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Should be fine. If used for sensitive purposes RAID it up per alf's advice
mircea_popescu: anyway, looking at the graphs bitcoin ~was~ actually dead march to about sept 2015/
shinohai: I figured why not go ahead and shop for 1TB drive since I am using it for node purposes, though pricier than I had imagined.
mircea_popescu: people are fucking late. shoulda derped about how dead it is back then.
mircea_popescu: shinohai for that reason! 500gb is enough for now. 1tb in a few years, will be cheaper.
BingoBoingo: Newegg has 500 for about 150 and 1tb a bit over 300
shinohai: Will do. Also anyone needing me for menial tasks such as proofreading or Spanish-to-English translations contact me plox
mircea_popescu: shinohai do you charge a lot and is your spanish very good ?
BingoBoingo: A bit over, but as cheap as I've seen them
shinohai: mircea_popescu: nope I'll do my best to undercut anyone. pussyfreak can vouch for my Spanish if he comes back, being from Spain and all lol.
mircea_popescu: how about you vouch for your spanish. pick any of my articles that discuss argentina and show me!
BingoBoingo: shinohai: The price amazon is selling the evo for is about the price amazon is selling the pro for. The difference between the two is apparently pro gets bigger warranty, hotter running controller (potential point of failure) and derp about longer write endurance
mircea_popescu: write endurance is notably not a major point of interest for bitcoin node ssds. the way it works is that most of the files are stable forever, and you have a hot end you keep adding to. this is a match made in heaven for ssds, they can use the spare capacity to compensate for your rewrites and once done it's done.
shinohai: I was concerned about write endurance because some folks have said ssd's aren't suitable for nodes. :/
mircea_popescu: oddly enough, the io constraindness of the bitcoin makes for better ssd fit.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 12:14:06; BingoBoingo: Blame for the failure went to the venture's major partner Tom
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I believe so. Isn't he the one who did the FPGA thing with BuzzDave and professed to be doing the ASIC thing?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the winds have pointedly turned against apple. the time when they did that "we'll brick your device if you used other parts in it" thing i'd arbitrarily pick as the jumping the shark moment. but in any case : apple is for the next decade a company to sell, not to hold and CERTAINLY not to buy.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeh. course, fpga thing even then counted more like amateur hour than anything.
mircea_popescu: which i suspect is the proximate reason no blame attached to buzzdave
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2016#1400259 <<< i'm with ben and the whole rest of the world on this. you display a very entrenched form of stockholm syndrome. not just here - but in all points of confort. can't move out of dc because it's the only swamp in the world with lid suspension and hotplugging something or the other, gotta use apple because insanoarcana, etc.
☝︎ mircea_popescu: it's all fine and dandy, makes up the very characteristic weird we've come to love under the label alf, but do not expect it's a consideration (or even meaningful) for anyone else.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: who is john w. wilkinson and is there any reason to keep his json spirit license around?
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:21:54; asciilifeform: this is sold by... one vendor.
mircea_popescu: eh, wipe all licenses. tmsr does not honor agreements between parties not attached to the wot.
mircea_popescu: it's just the plastic wanna-be crap, has nothing to do with bitcoin
ben_vulpes: paging mod6 to the preactor control room
mircea_popescu: as you can see my dear vulpes, it's not that we're BORN any better. it's that we've been doing something about it since then.
mircea_popescu: in other news of no particular interest, long sloppy blowjob the night before means you'll be picking red hairs out of your crotch for the rest of the morning.
ben_vulpes: in other news we call this occasionally-accumulating infant smegma "neck cheese" because mothers milk comes back up as ricotta
ben_vulpes: ahaha mircea_popescu yours is funny too!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57924 @ 0.0005778 = 33.4685 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: pete_dushenski was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 13 hours, 38 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <pete_dushenski> off to pickup new specs. if i'm not back this evening, i'll be around under 'pete_d_out' over the coming days. cheers!
gribble: pete_d_out was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 0 hours, 5 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <pete_d_out> well, my clock's running out. i'll check back in soon :)
gribble: I have not seen pete_dior.
ben_vulpes: doesn't that get you on some kind of vile criminal list in canada?
☟︎ gribble: I have not seen fabulous_pete_dolcegrabanya.
gribble: I have not seen hot_stuffs_pete_chanel.
mircea_popescu: i never expected him to not show up under his PROFESSIONAL names...
☟︎ gribble: I have not seen pete_driver.
mircea_popescu: ;;google the mailman always petes the door three times
ben_vulpes: this alphabetical sorting of patches in v flow grates on me for some reason i'm struggling to articulate.
PeterL: they should be in the order they get applied?
ben_vulpes: PeterL: the list of patches gets alphasorted before toposorting in all implementations i've seen to date.
☟︎ PeterL: but why should the alphasort matter?
ben_vulpes: if a v implementation recurses up from the pressed head, it doesn't.
ben_vulpes: from the desired head to press, it doesn't.
ben_vulpes: if instead a v implementation presses each patch in the flow...
PeterL: I guess alphasorting is a cheap way to ensure consistency between presses of equal sets?
PeterL: meh, I guess thinking about it, I guess if two patches are of equal level, then it does not matter which order they get applied?
PeterL: sort of by definition of equal level?
PeterL: or am I totally confused?
ben_vulpes: draw the graph, it's a useful exercise.
PeterL: so we should not need to alphasort anything?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32400 @ 0.00057604 = 18.6637 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: artifexd , asciilifeform , ben_vulpes , bingoboingo , cazalla , chetty , danielpbarron , davout , diametric , dignork , fluffypony , hanbot , jurov , kakobrekla , mats , mike_c , mircea_popescu , mod6 , mthreat , nubbins` , pete_dushenski , punkman , thestringpuller , trinque , phf , diana_coman :
http://trilema.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year/ mircea_popescu: you can thank ben_vulpes for making work for everyone!
mircea_popescu: PeterL> or am I totally confused? << a patch can only be safely applied to its antecedent. two patches at the same level CAN NOT be both applied by definition.
☟︎ PeterL: if they affect different files, they could be the same level?
mircea_popescu: well i have nfi what you mean by "same level", but to my eyes and from graph theory considerations it would mean "patches applied atop the same one patch"
PeterL: well, trying to decide order of patches to apply, if they affect different files then it does not matter which order you use?
mircea_popescu: thye chain you see, X is applied on "that patch with hash h1", ie G ; and in turn Y is applied to "that patch with hash h2", ie X
PeterL: so even if different files are affected, you have to specify the order?
mircea_popescu: you necessarily and always specify the order when you write the patch, because it includes the hash of the thing you want it applied on top of.
mircea_popescu: understand, this "different files" is flimsy as fuck. for all you know the "same files" are not really the same at all - their content changed.
ben_vulpes: more to the point with artifexd he bit off gossipd, claimed progress, and then vanished.
mircea_popescu: hey, when richard was gone to the crusades forever they put john on the throne.
mircea_popescu: then he came back there was a bit of trouble, but nothing we can't handle.
ben_vulpes: sure yeah people have been inquiring politely for...
gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 46 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell artifexd yo it's going to be much harder to get back in than it will be to preserve your seat now
mircea_popescu: my doctrine is that it's the simplest thing in the world for a lord to get his seat.
mircea_popescu: and if one isn't a lord... well... why would they want it ? fucking milstone around one's neck of the first degree.
diana_coman: I am honoured to be proposed to the list; I might add that I am quite likely to be of the silent type indeed at least for the time being
mircea_popescu: in any case we're early here, two months til april, and then all of april.
ben_vulpes: legendarily long lead time for feedback here, just getting ahead of things.
ben_vulpes is open to being sold, grew up in america after all
PeterL: only one female on the lordship list? you guys are so sexist! Clearly we need some affirmative action around here?
mircea_popescu: either that or more women that went to school for purposes other than talking about boys.
mircea_popescu: also, i thought kakobrekla was a girl ? no ? because -a ?
mircea_popescu: thanks got PeterL was confused earlier eh ben_vulpes ?
diana_coman: ^^^ ftr I can't remember ANY setting later than nursery in which I wasn't in a setup of at least 1:2 female:male
phf: shinohai: Can any asseteers tell me if this is a worthy SSD? << i've been using it's precursor, 250gb 830, as my primary drive for three years now, have nothing to complain about it. unless samsung fucked something up, an 850 will be my next purchase
PeterL: my high school calculus class was 3 boys and about 18 girls
PeterL: meh, i don't talk with any of them, that was like 15 years ago
ben_vulpes: i have a completely unbacked theory that the further you go down the american income/class ladder the more girls you'll get in those classes.
PeterL: actually no, I don't see everybodys problem?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you know for everyone from europe public school = best school. private school is where people with money send their retarded offspring to keep up the pretense.
mircea_popescu: PeterL "nobody kept in touch with the smart women they met so they have no proposals to make so the list is mostly guys"
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: and you know that public school in america is just daycare.
phf: my highschool class from about grade 8 and on was 16 girls and 5 guys
diana_coman: hm, we were 11 girls: 22 boys precisely in high school (cs class ie maths+physics+programming)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: diana_coman cluj suprareal cca late 1990s had exactly ONE girl in the set of 8 people that were accepted on merit, and about 14 in the set of 17 others who were accepted to pad the class so it may be made.
diana_coman: bwahahaha, our class was simply and unashamedly skimmed as "top 33" based on admission exam results
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the way this worked was, "gpa over X", which meant 8 people out of the region. then everyone went into the normal-great classes. but THEN it came word from the miniostry that they won't run a class for 8 people
diana_coman: after which they proceeded to bash us that "you will end up washing the floors in supermarkets"
mircea_popescu: and so the highschool admitted 17 more people into it, off the end of the list.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> press a patch without hashes in the headers << i've actually got that one covered in the patch im about to put out there tonight.
phf: there was a slightly different ratio in the B class, which was everyone who didn't make the A class.
mod6: if/when you can get the new patch applied, give it a try and let me know. thx.
mircea_popescu is vaguely envious of phf's adolescentine paradise. i expect they were all lanky slav coughars with uncharacteristically large tits for that type, and spent a lot of time doing stuff in the nude
diana_coman: aha, the 8 class thing would've been a great thing though
mircea_popescu: diana_coman actually the way it played out was imo the best possible outcome.
ben_vulpes: mod6: what kind of patch are you shipping? ri patch or v patch?
shinohai: thx phf and congrats to all who have made the Lord's list.
mod6: shipping? it'll just be a whole bundle once we do a bit of testing -- but tonights patch will be a squashed patch of the one from last week, and the additional changes here.
phf: but the school was already selective, was ran by a strong Georgian woman. if you didn't perform would get a visit with the principle. "your child will have a very hard time next year. a ~very~ hard time. we advise you move schools immediately". i know because my parents got the talk once or twice
mod6: will basically encompass what will be v99995
mircea_popescu: it's funny how good education ~always~ comes down to a woman with a whip.
mod6: i updated alot of the automate tests, and added a number of them, to ensure that i didn't regress anywhere. so far, seems good.
punkman: opinions: +1 to both additions. would be nice to see artifexd return. fluffy and nubbins can keep their lordships unless they wish to abdicate.
ben_vulpes tries to reconcile 'lord can have seat back for asking' with the booting of fluffypony and nubbins`
assbot: You have not rated phf.
PeterL: maybe you need a "lord emeritus" status for people who are not presently active?
mircea_popescu: PeterL no such thing! they can self-apply that, easy enough to verify.
assbot: You rated user phf on 16-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: lisper..
ben_vulpes: PeterL: i was thinking about a deadbot- !
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes wasn't a matter of [person who was once branded a lord] [can have seat back for asking]. it was a matter of [person who was born with the mettle and greatness of being a lord] [can have a seat whether they had one or never did just by basically existing in their grandiose state].
phf: hehe, my +v workhorse rating, ty ben_vulpes
trinque: !rate phf 2 provided example CL code for next deedbot, made excellent v-patch viewer, intelligent fellow
thestringpuller: trinque: I think you're right about the whole SSD thing. I'm going to resync on my giga-box for more tests, but it seems bootstrapping performance is increased more by adding SSD than adding more CPU's (unless you're adding like 20 cores to the thing but even then)
assbot: You rated user phf on 24-Jun-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Fixed our boxen!.
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.rate.phf.2:5167af628daff6a6257f3d4a95319406f789276d76fa8ef57ca1946b511a5add
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for phf with note: provided example CL code for next deedbot, made excellent v-patch viewer, intelligent fellow
trinque: thestringpuller: yes, it's quite IO hungry
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it still mostly uses one core no matter what you do
shinohai: Is there an official court jester post?
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Just wait for vexual to hit your pm's
shinohai: I used to get pm's from Vexual EVRY GODDAMNED SATURDAY
mod6: ben_vulpes: here's a peek at the squshed beta 1 & beta 2 vpatches - unless something changes between now and tonight, i'll be sending this one to the ML. All you need to do to apply is get V [v99996], copy `v.pl' to `v.pl.v99996`, then place this patch in the same dir and do: `patch -p0 < V_v99995_beta2.vpatch` and give it a go
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea, my P4 that's overclocked has had the best performance in bootstrapping.
mod6: anyway, will re-walk through this all again tonight, etc. then will sign and send to ML.
shinohai: mod6: new trb is at height 284171
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> doubt i'll get to it today tho << "there's all this delicious administrative shit to fuck around with early, who has time for codings!!!"
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 13:55:09; mircea_popescu: it's all fine and dandy, makes up the very characteristic weird we've come to love under the label alf, but do not expect it's a consideration (or even meaningful) for anyone else.
mircea_popescu: "shitting i nthe soup is not a problem, not all the floating turds are mine!"
mircea_popescu: the discussion is whether the cause is problematic or not.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes you know for everyone from europe public school = best school. private school is where people with money send their retarded offspring to keep up the pretense. <- +1 to that; I might add the only exception to this rule I found in northern Italy where "private" meant in fact province (autonomous, German-speaking-and-doing province) funded
mircea_popescu: and this matters in the sense that ximenez of spain really was interested in whether the witch had or hadn't orgasmed with the devil.
mod6: <+shinohai> mod6: new trb is at height 284171 << good deal, thanks for reporting :]
ben_vulpes: it has *chips* out of it asciilifeform, thank you for asking.
ben_vulpes: pretty standard decomposition pattern i think now
ben_vulpes: leading edge just torso-ward of the hands starts chipping after some time
ben_vulpes: i am a barbarian though and it must be my fault somehow for expecting my tools to be robust
ben_vulpes: i give precisely zero fucks about lightweight laptops.
ben_vulpes: if it's made of METAL i want to HIT PEOPLE WITH IT
ben_vulpes: and not worry about the delicate internals
BingoBoingo: Aluminum D cell maglite I've used as hammer does not have chips out of it.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is it blizzarding like dairy queen up there
BingoBoingo: Shoveled at about 4 am and brined concrete. Now snow has doubled, concrete still clean.
shinohai: I have snow here as well, just strong flurries nothing to write home about.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Roads here are clusterfuck because no one could anticipate 2nd round of snow coming this morning
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha, it is the source of where it starts.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:17:35; ben_vulpes: PeterL: the list of patches gets alphasorted before toposorting in all implementations i've seen to date.
mircea_popescu: like it or not, part of us, like the iliterate mother part of napoleon.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: I'd expect midwesterners to know how to drive in snow belt weather... Here we get 2 inches, the roads freeze and everyone freaks out like its The Walking Dead or some shit.
mod6: to asciilifeform's point tho, i'm not too sure what even exists in the lxr thing, and if is congruent with what's in the V mirror
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Problem is water under snow. Dept of Roads does not brine as generously as I do.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: aha. so even there you'll see cars in ditches with people telling cops "i dunno what happened, i just slippped and ended up in here"
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Yes. Very little snow, but enough to cull weakest drivers.
BingoBoingo: If alarm was raised in time those drivers would have normally stayed home, but because they were not explicitly told road is slick all suffer
PeterL: this morning we had a bit of snow, I slid about 10 yards past the entrance to work, antilock brakes kicked in, had to shift to reverse and go back to turn into parking lot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is nonsense. by that rule you should hang.
mircea_popescu: i don't want anything, whatsoever. and i still don;t care what the effects would be.
mircea_popescu: the notion itself, of the basis you propose, seems to me problematic.
mircea_popescu: why should a tool become a means by which you may pretend to enact determinism out of absent such ?
mircea_popescu: this nailing down... stick to nailing the mechanical gfs. reality has no holes.
mircea_popescu: what specifically would prevent me from later making a non-alpha-sorting V ?
mircea_popescu: that is not hte protocol, that is the spec of one implemen tation among many
mircea_popescu: and if you want everyone to change his, you are basically building on promise.
mircea_popescu: well the feature isn't interesting in itself, other than for this discussion.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 14:57:13; mircea_popescu: PeterL> or am I totally confused? << a patch can only be safely applied to its antecedent. two patches at the same level CAN NOT be both applied by definition.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform my idea of "level" was "all patches taking a certain hash as input"
mircea_popescu: im not sure what his idea of level was, prolly not too strictly defined.
mircea_popescu confesses to still thinking of v tron in terms of tree not exactly dag.
mircea_popescu: i also confess to mentally having an imaginary pre-G as a master node for all the various G's such as shiva's bitcoins v's etc.
jurov: If they can come to unanimous agreement, which one is the longest, praps.
mircea_popescu: how would it be among "Current" leaves. we don't have a notion of time.
mircea_popescu: but this is not really a cogent consideration. as far as levels are concerned, this "current" one would be just qas much l1 as all the other direct-G descendants.
jurov: and to press the "last pressable" I do what command?
jurov: alf said there is!!!!11
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that longest per se is meaningless.
BingoBoingo: V like everything else only exists in the present
mircea_popescu: so by latest you really mean something like "virgin nodes"
mircea_popescu: aite, i see. really should drop the latest it's confucksing
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 15:16:19; ben_vulpes: press a patch without hashes in the headers
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider this problem for a moment if you will : have people a, b and c ; have nodes as follows : G(a,b,c) -> N1 (a, b, c) -> N2 (a, b, c) -> N3 (a, b) / N3' (c) -> N4 (a,b) / N4' (c) -> N5 (c) -> N6 (c).
mircea_popescu: in this situation, "longest chain signed by ab) is 4, longest chain signed by c is 6. what is longest chain signed by abc ? 6 too ?
mircea_popescu: of what ? no, it's not a tie, is c running off with the count
punkman: i'd say longest by abc is N2
mircea_popescu: this gets to the core of what i was asking of phf to do with those lists.
phf: it's not, i need to reread relevant threads, and this one
mircea_popescu: what i said then phf was, i must be able to tell a) which people in total contributed and b) on what sets of people does the present press depend.
mircea_popescu: this is the counterposed thing. in this case, i would wish for N6 to know that a) abc and b) c ; whereas for N4 that a) abc and b) a OR b and finally for N2 that a) abc and b) a Or B or C
mircea_popescu: i could hash out a more complex example if it may help, since this NOTATIONAL FORMALISM (see that alf!!!) actually solves the problem of saying graphs. something i wasn't going to do before not because you can't display them, but because im too lazy to draw em.
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http://bit.ly/1Q5ohLG )
mircea_popescu: G (a, b, c, d, e, f, g) -> N1 (a, b, c, d) / N1` (e) / N1`` (f, g) -> N2 (a, c, d, e, f) / N2` (b, g) -> N3 (f, c) / N3` (a, b, c) / N3`` (a, d, f, g) -> N4 (a) / N4` (b, c) / N4`` (a, c, d, e) / N4``` (a, f)
mircea_popescu: the task is : to compute a) and b) for N2`, N3`` and all N4s.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "storage cups" that go into tubular aluminum flashlight body... Come with replacement end cap featuring drilled hole.
mircea_popescu: because there's a humongo market of ... flashlights, of all things, in the us. and trying to invent value for it so the assburger'd males keep buying them
mircea_popescu: it boggles the mind, what the fuck people are doing with flashlights over there these days.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Homebrew silencer for people without machine shop or work ethic
mircea_popescu: actually to risk going on a limb : the us is an ex-industrial pwoerhouse, made pseudo-rich by uninspired finalcial arrangements. the degeneracy that necessarily came from that picked a tiny topic and is making the glory of past days play out all over it. that topic is flashlights.
mircea_popescu: they can't make a plane or maintain the roads, but by god have you seen how superior their flashlights are over the orcs' ?
mircea_popescu: it took me a while to buy one that wasn't uv-led powered.
BingoBoingo: But flashlight are the only thing US does, so now cottage industry around making them into other things
phf: i thought police carries those oversized maglites for the purpose of using them as batons in a pinch
BingoBoingo: <phf> i thought police carries those oversized maglites for the purpose of using them as batons in a pinch << yes. For this 4, 5, or 6 D cell models
BingoBoingo: Also thinner C cell model for people concerned about weapon retention
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: There's a full range of them
BingoBoingo: But seriously these things are useful for beating down most things. Better made for that than some hammers I've seen
phf: extended version usually deployed by short and fat female cops in american tv shows. "sir, SIR, sir. sir!"
BingoBoingo: They also make AA and AAA versions likely for nostril fucking
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 15:20:58; diana_coman: hm, we were 11 girls: 22 boys precisely in high school (cs class ie maths+physics+programming)
jurov: "nor is it clear that it is a useful thing to do" but lxr must show it!!1 lmao.
mats: you callin me fat, ben_vulpes
BingoBoingo actually rather surprised mircea_popescu doesn't already have 6D club in his dungeon, for appearances if nothing else.
jurov: the last trb release is a WRONG thing nao?
jurov: ok, i'll look into -test2
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> where? antarctica ? << no, atomic diriglandia. it's a wonderful place!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re: codebabez you should totally come visit sometime
mircea_popescu: anyway, how about you know, downtown. afaik dc is about 60% female by mass
mircea_popescu would pay money for snapshot of alf awaken at 6:30 am by baby ; after having slept on guest bed over @ portland.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i chastise, yes, but i don't believe in destroying the woman. canes, not clubs.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: What about for penetration?
ben_vulpes: and our covered wagons aren't even hauled by oxen any more but horse
BingoBoingo: Also to chase away wild Obeasts who happen to glomp in
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, it took 12 (!) tugs to get the HK boat ungrounded from the elbe
mircea_popescu: wait this hk boat / elbe thing was a sexual innuendo item ?
mircea_popescu: my foreskin generally retracts on the first pass, just how wide IS this woman ?
ben_vulpes: mega container ship grounded in the elbe for FIVE DAYS
ben_vulpes: i am now renaming my cock to CSCL Indian Ocean
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Just deserts from the mines "With an ax rather than a scalpel, Australia's federal science agency last week chopped off its climate research arm in a decision that has stunned scientists and left employees dispirited. Why? Because the science is settled, there is no need for more basic research, the government says. No doubt many will experience a case of schadenfreude as they see those who have long claimed "the science is settle
BingoBoingo: d" face the inevitable and logical consequence of that stance."
mircea_popescu: well, the science is setled alright : there is no science in "climate blabla, back to more productive uses.
mircea_popescu: such as i dunno wtf these schmucks did before becoming "scientists", but i imagine revolutionizing keyboards and inventing better paper clips
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> how about disrupting the blowjob? << picking the long hairs out of the short hairs?
ben_vulpes: subject of sv, it looks like i'll be on hold with intuit until the halvening
ben_vulpes: but intuit goes so far as to lobby against simplifying the american taxtuation so they can do 'ez' taxes for derps
ben_vulpes: all i want is a form for hours and a button that remits appropriately
ben_vulpes: and apparently i have to go through intuit for this
mircea_popescu: move to romania, run it from there ; small biz costs you a few % in taxes and you get a person to do all your filings + basic legal support for a coupla hundred dollars/month.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 11:42:56; BingoBoingo: Spoiler alert, it was a trap.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 15:10:58; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes next month's s.mg filing might clarify.
ben_vulpes: "The cybercriminal reached out to Motherboard through an apparently compromised DOJ email account earlier last week, and claimed to have obtained the stolen data by compromising that account and then using it to access a DOJ portal."
☟︎ ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: i mean how am i supposed to know what's going on in the far-flung provinces
ben_vulpes: have been following the public feedz, yes, but much happens below the surface
ben_vulpes: "go sit in the corner! you've been bad."
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:14:13; ben_vulpes: "The cybercriminal reached out to Motherboard through an apparently compromised DOJ email account earlier last week, and claimed to have obtained the stolen data by compromising that account and then using it to access a DOJ portal."
ben_vulpes: i had a pertinent question before the payroll people distracted me
assbot: BitBet - Parties SMER-SD and SNS to win supermajority in Slovak parliament :: 0.37 B (46%) on Yes, 0.43 B (54%) on No | closing in 3 weeks 2 days | weight: 84`005 (100`000 to 10`000) ... (
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jurov: it's not going to be v-ified or somesuch
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the suggestions continue to stack up
ben_vulpes: an appealing thing about irssi is that it has a solarized light mode
ben_vulpes: i could get my whole experience into solarized light
danielpbarron: highly customizable, simple, runs on command line, in screen
ben_vulpes: i motherfucking hate switching over to a dark terminal after using a light text editor
danielpbarron: you can color it however you like; I color nicknames based on my rating of them in the WoT
☟︎ ben_vulpes: switching from light to dark and back is very painful for my head.
BingoBoingo: It's a shame no one still connects to IRC by touching two wires together rhythmically
ben_vulpes: light terminal, yes. specific color scheme at that. and no no fucking dark text editor because i have to pull up web pages and am right back at the original problem!
phf: ben_vulpes: what's wrong with erc!
ben_vulpes: phf: it's fine, great, doesn't bouncer well though.
jurov: kakobrekla: please remove it completely, it's completely misleading
ben_vulpes: phf: the best erc setup i've come up with is to run it through mosh in a terminal
jurov: it changed "ÁNO" to "NO" which is the opposite
kakobrekla: not a single comment ever got removed and i dont think we will start now
kakobrekla: cant you elaborate it differently with a subsequent comment?
BingoBoingo: jurov: Which side of the election are we rooting for?
ben_vulpes: phf: this means i have to maintain a mental map for "emacs on my server" and "emacs on my desktop
phf: i don't have an opinion on it. i have znc, bitlbee and erc all very lightly configured to work together, and i basically don't use anything else for comms
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Give up and just open up your NIC buffer in ed to irc
ben_vulpes: i think i even did erc-znc mode at one point
jurov: BingoBoingo: I listed the biggest douches, rooting against them
BingoBoingo: jurov: Aha. So like the local version of the Trump-Clitler alliance
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have a *million* complaints against znc
ben_vulpes: let us start with the completely fucking retarded web admin panel
jurov: Interesting there are some bets despite I have not advertised it yet. Local bitcoiners do follow bitbet :)
ben_vulpes: then there's some default password implementation the specifics of which i forget but was miserably bad
ben_vulpes: oh can't edit conf files and reload iirc
BingoBoingo: jurov: How do you know that those bets aren't all from a degenerate like myself who just wants betting action?
jurov: you dream shatterer, you!
phf: kill -hup presumably works
jurov: znc indeed is prone to overwriting conf, best to stop it and then edit if you must
phf: somebody here i believe sponsored otp for znc plugin
jurov: kek. but it's true somebody here sponsored otp for znc plugin
punkman: where is this znc otp plugin?
jurov: iirc it went into official distribution
jurov: heh somebody read otc?
trinque: my setup was much like phf's, had a few znc crashes/freezes and trashed the lot for weechat in a tmux somewhere
trinque: tried weechat.el, will probably end up using that when I bother to do something sensible around hightlight notifications
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trinque: I'll have this done just in time to switch to gossipd
trinque: along with the new deedbot, lol
jurov: gossipd will have irc interface?
PeterL: just needs a bot here and listening to gossipd to transmit messages between platforms, right?
trinque: jurov: naw, just in time to rewrite
phf: asciilifeform: it actually speaks a subset of irc then?
jurov: count on alf to have unreleased prototypes for everything :D
phf: asciilifeform: is the whole thing in c?
jurov: rly? i thought it's cuz of the lotions they use to tan the hide
mircea_popescu: i suspek the only effectiveness of the lotioning is that it keeps them from doing stuff / touching the spot for a while
mircea_popescu: not that anyone agrees with me on the topic in teh household(s)
phf: as demonstrated by outside-bombai indian woman feet, walking around barefoot all the time doesn't do your skin any sort of justice
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:25:39; danielpbarron: you can color it however you like; I color nicknames based on my rating of them in the WoT
danielpbarron: wow BingoBoingo the most clickbaity title you ever qntra'd. I was very confused to find it wasn't about the game company 'Steam'
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: What, guy can't spend 28 words on a joke?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah seriously, none of that. it's ok for blogs but not q
PeterL: you could put it on your personal blog?
danielpbarron: i've seen the game thing pop up on social media, something about they are or might be accepting bitcoin
BingoBoingo: Something derping about them and Bitpay. Been spending much of the morning looking for stories of steam explosions or other disasters.
assbot: Logged on 09-02-2016 17:53:11; asciilifeform: and irc frontend makes sense, thinkaboutit, nobody wants to use a cruddy ui hacked up for the occasion, everyone already has something reasonable that is irctronic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64350 @ 0.00056847 = 36.581 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75897 @ 0.00057458 = 43.6089 BTC [+]
PeterL: don't you collect commenters' emails, do you have to ask?
BingoBoingo: PeterL: We do, but it would be bad journalism to disclose such things. And really how often are we actually going to test emails anyways.
BingoBoingo: As long as the email hasn't been used in spam, email isn't going to be the thing that makes or breaks a comment's journey past the spam filter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i on the other hand am more than willing to die by this imaginary "quantum" computing.
PeterL: how is that comment troll-y?
mircea_popescu: it has exactly 0% chances to exist. if it did exist, however, the changes would be far reaching enough to render any present arrangements void anyway.
BingoBoingo: PeterL: It mentioned the Bern, just kinda assumed it was. Didn't read too closely.
mircea_popescu: was specifically discussing "quantum" as the literary fanon concept
PeterL: BingoBoingo but the comment agrees with your article
mircea_popescu: it is pointedly NOT a scientific notion, for the record, not anymore than communism is ; and in no danger of ever becoming one, such as occasionally sf items did become.
mircea_popescu: it belongs in the same heap as the audible / visible lasers, the bullets that spark off rock walls & al.
BingoBoingo: Ah. I guess a point could be made that if Obama's Hope and Change didn't fix the problem Bernie's isn't likely to either.
mircea_popescu: and so no, i'm not paying anyone anything to add "lightsaber armor" to my clothing.
BingoBoingo: PeterL: Maybe It's just getting late. My troll/humor doesn't seem to be calibrated right.
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't per se object to girl wearing "lightsaber armorer" cocktail dress, if that's the fashion, as long as it grabs her tits and waist right etc.
BingoBoingo: PeterL: I woke up at 22:00 local time. Hazard of working Internet full time.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3831 @ 0.00057244 = 2.193 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: it is not a bad paper. it is also not a bad thing to look for. unlike "cold fusion" and like "dark energy extraction", it has no actual merit for fundamental reasons.
mircea_popescu: crypto MAY compose usefully. assuming composition is a solution is in itself braindamage.
mircea_popescu: also asuming that A USEFUL WAY TO COMPOSE is always available is nonsense. and certainly asuming that the obvious composition is correct.
mircea_popescu: just as long as this a) doesn't invalidate assumptions required by one in a way operator couldn't verify and b) they are actually independent, as opposed to "i thought they were"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42400 @ 0.00056825 = 24.0938 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82400 @ 0.00057415 = 47.31 BTC [+] {6}
PeterL: asciilifeform re hasty pudding cypher: didn't you say key tables are evil?
PeterL: hi minzie_ who are you?
minzie_: looking for some brokerage in btc
minzie_: he isnt online at the moment, is he?
mircea_popescu: ➃ << i didn't even know slut brands were a html character.
mircea_popescu: "Bath Salts: As of July 22, 2011 possession of Bath Salts is a Class 4 Felony with the same sentencing as above." ahahaha wut.
PeterL: methylenedioxypyrovalerone
PeterL: sort of like a bulkier version of amphetamine
PeterL: nah mag sulphate got demoted from the name, it's fine to use
PeterL: isn't it great when people take one word with a definite meaning and slap it onto something completely unrelated?
minzie_: anyone know some good bitcoin trading software??
mircea_popescu: minzie_ can you be specific ? what are you trying to do ?
minzie_: want to trade in exchanges
mircea_popescu: "Most modern publickey ciphers are designed to reduce or at least relate closely to some long
mircea_popescu: studied problem that is believed to be difficult, such as factoring or finding discrete logarithms of
mircea_popescu: large integers. Modern symmetrickey ciphers, on the other hand, can rarely be reduced to widely
mircea_popescu: studied hard problems and so are frequently designed specifically to resist known cryptanalytic"
mircea_popescu: absolute paydirt. WHY "can rarely be". who told you ? etc.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between "can rarely be" and "never is". they do not speak of the same world.
mircea_popescu: what i wish to know is how did he establish his ought.
mircea_popescu: when people go all scholarly and shit on me, and start with the "We show" bullcrap i fucking expect them to use the words they mean to use.
mircea_popescu: btw, how's the "ethereum ecosystem" doing these days ? all the shit they were going to launch months ago... just around the corner!
mircea_popescu: well this item is from mid 90s, sat buried for the interval.
mircea_popescu: smells to me like long dead bait job some 3rd line derp is trying to spring back to life on us, but hery.
mircea_popescu: i'd almost be mildly insulted, if it weren't for the fact that my fucking spam filter identified it correctly on the first pass.
mircea_popescu: hey, btw, did THAT vc powered bs mix ever come to anything ?
mircea_popescu: i thought you had just went from a comment i just published. except i hadn't.
mircea_popescu: so you were independently looking at this and from before ?
mircea_popescu: im sure that he had his fill of those. talk of interesting things to him instead.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, another thought occurs : maybe the way to go is make the key a matrix and go for something like the maximum volume submatrix problem somewhere in there.
mircea_popescu: have the message specify the conditionation, and then how the fuck are you going to extract it if you don't know what you're starting from
mircea_popescu: what we want is some actual methods to calculate the difficulty curve over the space
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00056769 = 44.7907 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the more i think about this tyhe more im convinced our problems are really one problem : the absence of a proved mechanism to create the difficulty graph of a primitive.
mircea_popescu: and this should NOT in general be as hard as to actually break any one key.
mircea_popescu: but you know what i want ? i want it to output a fucking graph!
mircea_popescu: looking exactly like this :
https://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chs=240x45&cht=ls&chco=FFFFFF,FF9900,FFFFFF&chd=t:100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,1 mircea_popescu: 00,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100|43,49,55,55,57,64,67,65,65,65,65,66,74,74,74,74,74,74,74,75,75,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,76,75,75,75,75,75,74,74,73,73,73,73,73,73,72,72,72,72,72,71,71,71,71,71,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,73,72,73,71,65,64,65,63,63,63,63,62,62,62,55,55,54,54,55,64,64,64,64,64,64|14,15,17,17,18,22,24,24,
mircea_popescu: 24,24,24,25,33,33,33,34,34,34,34,35,35,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,42,43,43,43,43,43,43,43,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,44,45,45,45,45,45,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,50,51,55,57,63,64,65,68,68,68,68,69,69,69,78,78,78,79,80,99,99,99,99,99,99&chls=1|1|1&chm=B,3699a3,0,0,0|B,d01135,1,0,0|D,555555,2,0:0,2
mircea_popescu: oh wow, bitbet uses google charts, i forgot. anyway. likew one of the bitbet charts!
mircea_popescu: you know, so this algo has N keys, fine, the space is N. caqlculate the complexity for all of them, sort the weakest to the left, draw it for me.
mircea_popescu: in principle, at 100% granularity this would then result in an image 2^256 or however many pixesl wide. fine.
assbot: Logged on 07-03-2015 18:12:58; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'for your convenience we have packaged the defective transistors separately' ? (famous)
mircea_popescu: but currently, a box wherein you input code on one end, and it outputs this peculiar graph at arbitrary zoom level is the most valuable computer i can think of.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70305 @ 0.00056331 = 39.6035 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: and yet we deeply wonder why would anyone fix a large key and block requirement!
mircea_popescu: stupidity of this caliber can't be naturally produced, has to be learned.
mircea_popescu: but herein we find the elixir of my tolerance of orcs that perhaps bedazzles you alf. this is it : they may be stupid, but at least they're not TRAINEDLY dumb.
mircea_popescu recalls how friendly arabs were once it was established he has whiskey and doesn't mind sharing.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: today from the mines. I'm setting up puppet which uses openssl
thestringpuller: but apparently it doesn't know how to find the right .so to link
thestringpuller: so I get this error " EC_GROUP_new_curve_GF2m symbol not found at runtime link blah blah"
thestringpuller: the one that shipped with the product that uses it doesn't even have the symbol in it?!?!?
thestringpuller: like wtf are these people doing when the put together package management
thestringpuller: "Don't wanna deal with this bullshit? Buy puppet enterprise today!"
thestringpuller: removes itops out of the equation in lieu of developers slowly losing sanity to ruby
jurov: mod6: ben_vulpes got an email "bitcoin-foundation.info expires in 60 days"
jurov: should i renew it?
ben_vulpes: stop paying lizard hitler for entries in his global lookup table
mircea_popescu: " everything looks like a boolean satisfiability problem. This problem, also called SAT, is NP-complete, which means that every instance of any problem in NP can be efficiently reduced to a SAT instance. And, importantly, there are SAT solvers out there which are very efficient for many problems encountered in practice."
mircea_popescu: 1998-10-18 W T Shaw: "In Bruce's work, there are sinful omissions and comissions, but the subject is so large that this would always be a surity in some form. To judge his character, we will see if he mentions in the future any things he has previously ignored and have been pointed out directly to him." << no. as confirmed throughout and including 18 years later.