log☇︎
832 entries in 0.485s
ascii_butugychag: reduced to gossipd, no ?
phf: jurov: i've been playing with the gossipd PoC, and it's entirely possible to get a gnupg packet from the wire, defensively, byte at a time, and know at any point how much more you need to get.
jurov: or gossipd will
mircea_popescu: but be all this as it may, for as long as gossipd.pop | print yields ((1,2),(2,3)) for me while gossipd.pop | mathgraph yields whatever ascii wants it to yield, we're happy.
ascii_butugychag: betcha there will be 1,001 usg gossipd.
punkman: https://github.com/ssbc/docs another gossipd
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367965 << this is actually a mega-l0l - a virtually 100% gossipd WITH 100% NSA CRYPTO ☝︎
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366374 << much as mircea_popescu dislikes 'must x before y!1111' affairs, this really oughta run on gossipd. ☝︎
BingoBoingo: gossipd
mircea_popescu: hey check that out, zimmerman makes nsa-phone and david chaum makes nsa-gossipd. ☟︎
asciilifeform: incidentally a gossipd which conducts tcp pipes would at least threaten to begin to formalize the hierarchy.
ben_vulpes: yes well clearly when we actually have gossipd auth i can wash my hands of auth too.
asciilifeform: (it'll be building, e.g., gossipd, later)
asciilifeform: expect more 'embrace & extend' of gossipd.
asciilifeform: i.e. quite like a gossipd designed at ft meade for chumpatronic purposes
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-12-2015#1347131 << it's sorta like a mildly braindamaged gossipd ☝︎
trinque looks forward to the day he can fiddle around with the concept of hypertext on a gossipd
trinque: ascii_field: we discussed this as well; even assuming a trusted gossipd net, there'd still be connections out to the unwashed nether world
mircea_popescu: and i expect gossipd to be undistinguishable for the phillipino/redditarded eye from current b-a log.
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: mebbe deedbot is afraid of the gossipd similarity to usenet? Fears #b-a.tasteless?
mircea_popescu: looky. a gossipd based on the concept that you keep firewalled clients at home and they connect to a random pile of websites, which simply respond with pgp -w text
mircea_popescu: pull-only gossipd ftw.
mircea_popescu: gossipd must work on a pull model. exactly like old ml.
mircea_popescu: there is absolutely no reason for gossipd to work on a push model of data transfer.
mircea_popescu: also, thinking about it, it occurs to me that the model we've been using to think about gossipd is fundamentally broken.
assbot: Logged on 28-11-2015 20:42:43; phf: ben_vulpes: sure, so you're going to cap the size of ciphertext of what you expect to be nonce, which is fine, but after that you rely on state outside of gossipd (tcp packet from ip such and such) to drop all subsequent
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-11-2015#1333229 << for gossipd, using stock gpg, much less an abomination (time the invocations some time..!) like gpgme, is a monumentally bad idea ☝︎
ben_vulpes: jurov: phf's point though is that then you're relying on state /outside/ of gossipd to run gossipd. if i understand correctly.
phf: ben_vulpes: sure, so you're going to cap the size of ciphertext of what you expect to be nonce, which is fine, but after that you rely on state outside of gossipd (tcp packet from ip such and such) to drop all subsequent ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ascii_field your gossipd node is stuck doing a version of this.
mircea_popescu: but so far we don't even know if we actually want rsa (this for lack of gossipd) nor have we studied shoup etc.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'encrypted connection' item necessarily reduces to gossipd
mircea_popescu: gossipd.
asciilifeform: phf: it only makes sense to do gossipd in cl if you reimplement the crypto
asciilifeform: the answer is gossipd. or, in the short term, an 'octopus' topology with server(s) behind ciphered lines connected to a constellation of private exit proxies, similar to (iirc) what was used in mpex.
trinque: adlai: assuming a gossipd wotnet, and there being some way to retrieve things provided by your wot in a cryptographically sound manner, the logs would always be enough
mircea_popescu: so gossipd is practically going to be lisp hand-compiled ot c ?
phf: i have some code for gossipd, i'm going to by the spec that's published on trilema, rather then follow up conversation about udp and first packet validation. i wrote enough in c to be able to prime gpg machinery and send packets over the wire (which basically coveres things that i wasn't sure how to do before i started), then i switched to common lisp to get a prototype up. what came out of that so far is updated bindings for lisp
asciilifeform: (yet the umpteenth reason why gossipd is a weapon of the apocalypse)
trinque: yep, I think asciilifeform has it, that it'd be something to build around gossipd
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how do you do encrypted connections without gossipd ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: prolly gonna turn this thing into a gossipd-style whitelisted node soon.
asciilifeform: how's gossipd relate ?
v_diddy: *another* killer application of gossipd.
phf: g is presumably ascii's gossipd version
mircea_popescu: phf notice that the gossipd thing was specced, the pgp one has not.
phf: so gossipd is "in progress", but fella's not been heard from in a very long time. gpg has not been started, but ascii presumably has a lot of ideas about it. then there's pie in the sky projects, like fabricating own cpus or rsa over udp routers.
mircea_popescu: there's also a bunch of large-ish stand-alone items, such as the gossipd (which might still be done by artifexd, haven;t heard from him for a while) and a proper redesign of pgp
mircea_popescu: this is what gossipd is built upon, also.
trinque: this is where gossipd deniable statement mode would be great
ascii_field: with gossipd/wot
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-10-2015#1292464 << insert the great gossipd thread here ! ☝︎
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: correctly-implemented gossipd is intrinsically ddosproof.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: gossipd is a computationally very lightweight thing, and also does not suffer from network effect
BingoBoingo: dependence of gossipd (whenever it emerges) may face geater danger
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu lulzy: urbit's bastard gossipd: http://happut-fopnys.urbit.org/home/tree/pub/release-0/materials/whitepaper#a-ames-networking
ascii_field: i had the thought once that gossipd would make this item quite trivial to implement
trinque: I'd build a dedicated box solely for using gossipd, browsing the WoTnet, running bitcoind, and very little else
ascii_field: hardware gossipd, if you like.
ascii_field: jurov: aha. see the old gossipd thread.
ascii_field: some time during the original gossipd thread
mircea_popescu: gossipd the best i can think of.
mircea_popescu: via gossipd, is the closest i can see.
asciilifeform: after which we get to write gossipd with tcp syn instead of udp
mircea_popescu: "onmly way to have gossipd"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there can trivially be gossipd-over-blockchain.
asciilifeform: realize that there can be no useful gossipd except with something like what is described above (i.e. udp but with protocol != 17)
mircea_popescu: what, jam tomorrow, maybe one day ima get gossipd over udp, perhaps, who knows ? meanwhile half the remaining usg online is BASED, and requires udp to survive at all ?
mircea_popescu: ima see gossipd alright. atm, the infrastructure is not the problem.
asciilifeform: and never see gossipd
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very easy to filter: reject anything that isn't a valid gossipd packet addressed to your key
decimation: udp can't be easily distinguished, and this is a gossipd-flavor
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: single-packet auth is the only gossipd worth using.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu check it out, usg read the gossipd logs, and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217682 ☝︎
asciilifeform: it is no 'gossipd'
assbot: 151 results for 'gossipd' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gossipd
trinque: !s gossipd
shinohai: gossipd is golang isn't it ?
trinque: shinohai: I look forward to the day publishing is done over gossipd.
mircea_popescu: and jurov's working on an irc integration thingee, which i intend to upgrade to gossipd once that's done, and generally...
mircea_popescu: but yes, gossipd is the huge sort of project that looks like it'd benefit from a few failure reports from failed attempts before we seriously have a shot.
asciilifeform: this is probably where i confess that ~my~ gossipd is nearly done...
ben_vulpes: trinque: don't bite off gossipd man
trinque: I really don't think not having a b-a satellite network should preclude getting started on gossipd
phf: build FIDO on top of gossipd ;)
mircea_popescu: i guess we're all just holding our breaths for the gossipd
trinque: second, any node accessing qntra has the option of caching the data and making it available for their own gossipd peers
trinque: felipelalli: were there a gossipd, it'd subsume this whole http mess entirely
mircea_popescu: eh, just put things on gossipd and never invite them.
ascii_field: incidentally, if we ever abandon this place for gossipd etc. someone oughta leave shannonized (from logs) versions of us
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i meant - the lot of us. nobody wants to really break a sweat for channel housekeeping because gossipd is 'the right thing'
assbot: Logged on 10-07-2015 17:07:16; ascii_field: my current hypothesis is that all the relevant folks are waiting for 'gossipd' and don't give much of a fuck
ascii_field: my current hypothesis is that all the relevant folks are waiting for 'gossipd' and don't give much of a fuck ☟︎
trinque: trilema and loper I expect to be able to get via hamsterwheel shortwave gossipd someday
ascii_field: decimation: you can do this, and sign the result with your gossipd key, etc. sure
trinque: anybody ever looked at tinc as a starting place for a gossipd?
ascii_field: i am looking forward to hearing of some answer other than soldering iron or gossipd
trinque: hence gossipd
ascii_field: the only solution i can presently think of is a variant of ntp over gossipd.
decimation: emacs-gossipd