▁▁▁▁▁▁⏐︎ 9098
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/the-broad-and-the-million-fireants-a-parable/ << lol check out the antique, from back when ben_vulpes was benkay
mircea_popescu: $s "and the boys mircea mircea after me"
deedbot: $s "and the boys mircea mircea after me" is not a command.
mircea_popescu: oh no search integration as of yet huh.
mircea_popescu: trinque phf this is happening amirite ?
mircea_popescu: (for the curious, the sauce of that lolz http://trilema.com/2013/i-was-right-you-were-wrong-again-feel-the-burn/#selection-323.1-272.53 )
adlai: ben_vulpes: actually i think webapp works just fine: http://i.imgur.com/i0gQuzk.png
mod6: normally i have these dill ones. i don't dig the bread and butter ones much.
mod6: i gotta look and see here...
mod6: yeah, the kosher dills. these look to be like water, vinegar and salt for the brine.
mod6: i'd go as far to say that I've never even had a salt pickle.
mod6: "salt pickles like your great grandmother used to make..." yeah, i'd bet i've never even had one.
mod6: have to give that a try
adlai don't want a pickle... just wanna ride on his motor sickle
mod6: get in line
adlai: and iiii don't wanna die... just wanna ride on my motor sigh. ckle.
asciilifeform revvs up motorsigh
adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPx2t7xoF1k
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-05#1446433 << that was ~cauchy~ ☝︎
asciilifeform: y'know, back in the good ol' dayz
asciilifeform: (def of epsilon)
mircea_popescu: aha. nb.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-05#1446421 << clearly my simpopescu needs wurk!111 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: mod6 salt pickles are really fermented, not vinegared. they preserve because the lactobacillum keeps other bugs out
mircea_popescu: anyone know how the fuck do i wipe dos blank lines in cli ?
mod6: this is neat-o. im gonna have to do some jars of those. i've got a lady who knows how to jar, is gonna show me this summer.
mircea_popescu: sed / grep don't match ^$, awk doesn't match with NF > 0, i'm totally wtf'd.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'dos2unix'
mircea_popescu: can't i not have to do that ?
asciilifeform: sure, awk, l0l
asciilifeform: you'll have to explicitly spell out the cr lf heathenry tho
mircea_popescu: :blank: also dones't catch it
asciilifeform: it dun count as a lineend
mircea_popescu: wyhat is it \r\n ?
mod6: oh like [CTRL+V CTRL+M]? This will yield you a matchable '^M'
mircea_popescu: holy shit, -v "\r\n\" also doesn't catch it
mod6: so you can do like `sed s/^M//` or whatever
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-05#1446423 << i read it as 'here be dragonz' re the continuing but no longer tmsrtronic old logz ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-05#1446562 << surely you meant : sold for ~biodiesel~ ☝︎
asciilifeform: (who wants these slavez?)
mircea_popescu: mod6 crazily that matches nothing
mircea_popescu: wtf.
asciilifeform: try the actual escaped hex
mircea_popescu: sed '/^
mircea_popescu: oops i mean
mircea_popescu: sed '/^\s*$/d' did it eventually
mircea_popescu: i guess ghiost whitespace orf w/e
mod6: huh. yeah weird.
mod6: while im rounding out the lib, any mega-b00k reccos on DFA?
asciilifeform: hopcroft & ullman ?
asciilifeform: or papadimitreou
mod6: hey thanks!
asciilifeform: np.
asciilifeform: get the h&u with the hot chick on cover!111
asciilifeform: http://www.jeanmariechauvet.com/images/ref_automata.jpg
mod6: lol
asciilifeform: unless you're actually mathematicizing, you prolly don't need a b00k re dfa...
asciilifeform: simple enough concept.
mod6: werd. just something for shelve reference.
mod6: *shelf
asciilifeform: in other not-quite-news, http://ideone.com/a1ky4l << ada mandelbrot generator, safely threaded, ~170 lines.
asciilifeform: (by author of the 'random walk in ada' article.)
mod6: cool man
adlai loves the ads for SPOJ claiming "learn how to code" in a site that lets people who know math compete in who knows more math
adlai: but those glyphs have me wanting to learn braille again.
mod6: you learned braille?
adlai: no, but i've wanted to ever since i realized my eyesight (which is pretty damn good) is not good enough.
adlai: learning braile does not play well with practicing guitar, due to calluses.
mircea_popescu: braille is a dead pursuit.
mod6: ah, yeah, like having wax fingertips
mircea_popescu: it had its niche before computers. ~ nobody still learns it today.
adlai: would chetty consume accelerated audio?
mircea_popescu: and all sorts of screen readers and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: she did learn braille originally ; never used it much past the 90s. also of course there's two.
adlai: two?
mircea_popescu: yes, two.
mod6: i had no idea her vision was that bad. i must be oblivious
adlai doesn't understand what mircea_popescu means by "there's two". is this like "another skywalker"?
mod6: hell, sat there and talk to her for a good while, had no clue.
mircea_popescu: mod6 she was EXTREMELY good at taking cues from, say, me. but generally people.
mircea_popescu: adlai ie, two brailles, like they did a braille-ext or some shit
adlai: oic
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah.
adlai: my guess is that much more useful secret tongues are sign language and morse
adlai: although realtime caesar cryptanalysis on permuted morse is probably past even mp-complete
mircea_popescu: ahaha what ?
mircea_popescu: check out amateur sigint
asciilifeform: adlai: caesar cryptoanalysis on arbitrary symbol set is ~literally~ first week's homework at any half-decent school
asciilifeform: second week's - same, with 'rotors'
adlai: "week's homework" /= realtime
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: adlai: a few msec
asciilifeform: srsly this is begging for mircea_popescu's article
asciilifeform: where was it
adlai: 'fits in head' has another interpretation.
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto
adlai unlike trb donators has much more creative paranoiae
mircea_popescu: he seems to propose that he'll takamakatotopipi so quickly you won't know what hitcha!
asciilifeform: l0l
adlai: it's the other way around. haven't you ever realized everybody around you is communicating in front of your face in a language you can't parse?
adlai: cf meta-#t-a
adlai is all about freedom of information; analysis, not concealment.
asciilifeform: adlai is also about lsd ?
asciilifeform: this is not a sin per se but makes it difficult to communicate
mircea_popescu: see ? his crypto wurx
asciilifeform: apparently!
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-03-2016#1436476 << yes, yes, etc. the awakeness knob goes to 11! ☝︎
asciilifeform: adlai: there is a proper log now
adlai: it still doesn't insert quotes, this is not proper
asciilifeform: adlai: e.g., ^ == http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-19#1436476 ☝︎
adlai demonstrates: <asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2016#1436450 << adlai awake? or is he still digesting that kg of lsd. ☝︎
asciilifeform: adlai: click the arrow
adlai: i don't want to click shit, i want text quoted in weechat without me moving an eyeball.
adlai: this is what assbot did back in the good ol' days.
asciilifeform: imho it would be optimal for the thing to spew old-style assbot spew, aha
asciilifeform: so long as the latter doesn't interfere with the log browser's mechanisms re arrows
asciilifeform: i can't be the only one who takes in the log at least half the time from the logtron
adlai: recursing into inner links, across the log.b-a.chasm, left as an exercise to the industrious lisper
adlai goes back to trying to make money make money
trinque: wtf is this disconnected by services shit?
trinque: why is IRC so damned terrible?
adlai: in other news, http://www.learnmorsecode.com/pix/learn.gif is what i didn't even know i needed.
asciilifeform: adlai: aha, huffman
asciilifeform: whatever floatsyerboat
mircea_popescu: trinque noidea.
asciilifeform: so in other 'news', somewhere b/w 1/3 to 1/2 of ~all~ public nodez are ~admitted~ sybils at this point.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That was January, mebbe February news and previously August-September news
asciilifeform: i find it difficult to imagine that mircea_popescu would not have known this. ergo on 'day x' he believed that he was connected directly to a mine.
asciilifeform: (incidentally, the node/mine dichotomy is an excellent illustration of the 'protocol vs promise' principle. in that initially, they were one and the same - cpu miner was enabled. but this was 'promise' in the sense that nothing kept the two tethered together)
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-04-26#1 << new url to first log line, and its 2nd reference :) ☝︎
adlai: asciilifeform: would you argue that satoshi should've switched PoW each time a new optimized (ie, gpu, fpga, etc) miner was released, at least, before he sepukkud?
phf: adlai: i'm half expecting bot to fall over at any second, you want it to spew log lines, you crazy, mang
asciilifeform: adlai: iirc he vanished before gpu even.
adlai: asciilifeform: not quite, iirc he wailed and gnashed teeth at the ungentlemanly conduct of ArtForz.
adlai: http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/20/
asciilifeform: the idiocy is of interest strictly to archaeologists.
adlai sleeps, dreams of ketsaknives
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-05#1446454 << http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-04#700916 << the most referenced line : asciilifeform commenting on some news story that BingoBoingo wanted to scoop before coindesk, saying that they'd all pretend they scooped it first anyway ☝︎☝︎
danielpbarron: the second most reference line : http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-19#983318 << Rozal admitting he lied about whatever ☝︎
danielpbarron: there's a four-way tie for 3rd most referenced log line : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-01#1418803 ; http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-25#1144802 ; http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-07#1090204 ; http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-05#546880 ☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎
phf: incidentally there's a bug in ref counter, only finds one ref
danielpbarron: yeah i just noticed, it didn't like me referring to multiple lines in the same line
danielpbarron: i suppose that means there may be lines with even greater references
phf: i suppose we'll find out soon enough
danielpbarron: yeah you can probably pop the answer out way faster than the way I just found those
phf: well, so far i've succeeded in breaking annotations
phf: or maybe not
phf: well, something's working anyway
phf: danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log-top-refs
danielpbarron: weew, mine were right!
phf: i was frankly surprised you managed to produce them manually ☟︎☟︎
phf: i wonder if assbot quotes should count for annotations though
danielpbarron: yeah, the rozal ones get triggered by the log line being referenced in BingoBoingo's rating on him
BingoBoingo: Which is exactly how a proper public damning should work.
danielpbarron: and by yeah, I mean yeah I had the same thought, that perhaps this is a less legit reference
danielpbarron: heh
phf: aight, check it without bot quotes
phf: rozal now has three BingoBoingo rates and this thread
BingoBoingo: No, you've lessened the damning!
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-19#983318 << The damnation of the guilty is of severe importance ☝︎
phf: this also demonstrated for why "top refs" shouldn't remain a feature :p
phf: otherwise can go ascii route and ref the same post over and over again
danielpbarron: no, that's what WoT is for
danielpbarron: same idea with deeds ; could submit same thing over over, but then get neg-rated out of a voice
trinque: makes sense.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-04#1445593 <<< answered http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-first-progress-report#comment-8406 ☝︎
davout: ;;later tell hanbot ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-04#1445594 <<< what i was thinking is "offer wires as an alternative to a cash settlement to people who presently hold x.eur and to whom i've committed to delivering upon request", and then close it, at least until i have another professionnal setup to handle it properly ☝︎☟︎
davout: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf i find myself agreeing with adlai, the way we have it now, the log is in fact near-unreadable EXCEPT in wwwtron. links oughta dump into the chan assbot-style ☟︎
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: (at least when they are links to the log)
shinohai: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/06/house-of-horrors-police-find-apparent-sex-slave-chained-to-strippers-pole-in-detroit-home/ <<< Police said mircea_popescu was nowhere to be found. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: adlai: asciilifeform: would you argue that satoshi should've switched PoW each time a new optimized (ie, gpu, fpga, etc) miner was released, at least, before he sepukkud? <<< whatever he'd argue, it is a fact that YES, satoshi should have been a man rather than an herb, and once he knew things blew up should have called forth the dragon. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is both what distinguishes children from men, and an absolute bar to leadership.
davout: phf: very cool log you made!
mircea_popescu: phf: adlai: i'm half expecting bot to fall over at any second, you want it to spew log lines, you crazy, mang << no, seriously, this is a must. deedbot must say the logline when it sees the reference, there's no way about it, because seeing the line reminds me of the log directly, but clicking links etc is such a high bar...
mircea_popescu: no way around it*
mircea_popescu: "gentleman agreement" for the love of all that's slippery and wet.
mircea_popescu: how about we get a gentleman's agreement to piss on him and his "discovery" - i know a lot more actual gentlemen in banking and finance than in computing. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: phf: incidentally there's a bug in ref counter, only finds one ref << thanks danielpbarron :D
danielpbarron: yw
mircea_popescu: phf: well, so far i've succeeded in breaking annotations phf: or maybe not phf: well, something's working anyway <<< bwahahaha check out the ada-lisper at work! :D
danielpbarron is currently updating blog posts to reference new log instead of old one
mircea_popescu: what did you do ? update daniel_posts replace(post_content, bitcoin-assets, btcbase) ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log-top-refs << this is a splendidly useful tool, actually!
danielpbarron: nah i'm just doing it manually because it's only a month old ; but it'll be really easy for you to do it that way as the urls are virtually identical
mircea_popescu: i want it to be a flag in the search, so as to search IN IT.
mircea_popescu: (ie, results come out sorted by it)
mircea_popescu: we're actually building a sort of cyber-ai-implant here, it's obvious by now.
mircea_popescu: human memory being obviously the most directly augmentable of all the high cognition functions.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446757 << guy reads teh logs. ☝︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446788 << what 'discovery' again ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: so iirc the way this was solved before is, phf makes the page TITLE of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446757 read "phf: i was frankly surprised you managed to produce them manually" and then trinque makes deedbot fetch the TITLE of all pages and this solves reading loglines into chat. ☝︎
asciilifeform: aha ^
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you linked to the strippers whatever ?
asciilifeform: waiwut
asciilifeform still snarfing up the logz
mircea_popescu: hmm this is odd, clicking on your link lists http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446781 as first on my screen ☝︎
asciilifeform: strippers?
mircea_popescu: phf why isn't linked line first in viewport ?! how am i gonna find what he means ?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform once it became obvious they can gpu mine. that discovery.
asciilifeform: ah!
phf: mircea_popescu: now that's just crazy talk, the behavior is identical to old log
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, not enough content below to have the page scroll to the right spot
mircea_popescu: phf i tell you ?! oh oh! i c.
danielpbarron: could pad with whitespace i suppose
mircea_popescu: nah is ok now that i know wtf.
mircea_popescu: btw, btcbase.org could use some links on it.
phf: it could, but i'd rather not have random durps hitting the domain and then hitting the logs until i'm certain of logs ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446782 << it is not clear that fella had unilaterel workfunction-twiddling auctoritas ☝︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the consacrated words being under the dragon. "i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage X.". with or without the banishment rider.
mircea_popescu: phf word. also, a way to go to arbitrary date should be... oh nm, i can just hack teh url.
mircea_popescu: you'll hafta excuse flurry of nonsense, trying&figuring out new clothes.
phf: nono wait
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what fella what unilateral ?!
phf: so the way it used to address is /?date=06-04-2016, i think that should still happen when you hit /log/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: satoshi
danielpbarron: mildly annoying that old log url and new log url have date in reverse order, but i guess a script can hack around this trivially
asciilifeform: did anyone actually give half a fuck what he thought ?
mircea_popescu: right ? so if i want feb 2012 i go /?date=01-02-2012
asciilifeform: ( i was not tuned in yet, so i have nfi )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform about as much as mp in #b-a.
phf: right, but that will redirect you to /log/2012-02-01 because i like iso 8601
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/01-02-2013 << fanci that ?!
mircea_popescu: hm
phf: right, because endpoint for the log is an iso8601 date
mircea_popescu: ah right, order.
mircea_popescu: but looky, empty pages! http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-03
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he doubtlessly failed to understand both his capabilities and his responsibilities, until later, as is usually the lot of people.
phf: oh that old old log is not there yet, and will probably go in within a month or so
mircea_popescu: kk
mircea_popescu: lol you readin' it first ? :D
phf: have some people transcribe it
mircea_popescu: not machinable huh.
asciilifeform admits that he misses the old checkerboard patter in the logz
asciilifeform: *pattern
asciilifeform: and the timestapmz
phf: the desire for old styling has been expressed and heard
mircea_popescu: lol this guy
mircea_popescu: $rated phf
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated phf 2 at 3644159832 << Fixed our boxen!
mircea_popescu: $rate phf 3 Teh desire has been expressed and heard!
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/995fb18d-4f35-4909-a21f-32dd70b0d96e/
mircea_popescu: $v 8C225EF704922ADE60BE99B4CDC7CC85BB04049F87751A9849FFC35C9AFB2522
deedbot: mircea_popescu updated rating of phf from 2 to 3 << Teh desire has been expressed and heard!
mircea_popescu: im curious how phf does in domestic arguments.
mircea_popescu: did a woman you cared about ever manage to get a satisfyingly loud and wet quarrel witcha ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446775 << makes sense. hopefully the holders will be kind enough to get out of their positions amiably. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-28#774690 << ahh what a quote. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: possibly might be an idea to eschew counting references to a log line made by the same author ?
mircea_popescu: let's also put this in teh record "S.MPOE": {"1d": {"avg": "50504.3351821","min": "50143","max": "51211","vsh": "437407","vsa": "22090949739","cnt": "15"}, "7d": {"avg": "49898.0738545","min": "49008","max": "51211","vsh": "1288832","vsa": "64310234322","cnt": "95"}, "30d": {"avg": "49515.8488864","min": "41707","max": "53882","vsh": "22173235","vsa": "1097926553583","cnt": "1517"}}
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446818 << phf tell you what, ima hold up changing trilema links until you're happy with it then. you say. ☝︎
phf: that sounds reasonable
phf: the web part is fine, but i want a bit more reliability out of a bot, maybe move it into a separate process even. this whole ascii's "does cmucl even has proper threads" is biting me in the ass
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: without importing all the battlefield lulz on the topic : it is rather important for lisp to be used in ACTUAL applications, as opposed to conceptual.
mircea_popescu: this shit is dirty.
mircea_popescu: brits had a very similar problem, "our tank is very well made" "how does it do in the sand ?" "WHAT?!?!?!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is here committing the 'economics is what i see at the grocery counter' fallacy
mircea_popescu: tell.
asciilifeform: as described in his own article re same!
phf: lisp's attitude to threads for a decade now has been "now let's see how this whole `threading' thing plays out, and maybe come up with a solution in a decade or two"
asciilifeform: phf: sbcl exists.
mircea_popescu: phf fwiw i believe "threads" are a miserable kludge, so i can see the angle.
asciilifeform: even mcl has threads.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no threads, no multicpu
phf: asciilifeform: quiters
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform were you gonna explain how the grocery thing relates ?
mircea_popescu: and srsly, what, it's my job to tell the processor how to process ? that's why it's a processor, let it process!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in that most effective software isn't public.
mircea_popescu: but oh, no, "you gotta make this hacky flagging scheme to show us what to paralellize!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd like ada then
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is utterly besides the point, isn't it ? most well made statues were kept in temples, in the dark, untouched and unseen. this doesn't mean they had ergonomic spoons in mass production!
asciilifeform: ada tasks, afaik, is the only sane implementation of parallelism where you ~never~ specify explicit thread ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider, e.g., naggum's oil/gas exploration proggies
asciilifeform: they were 100% commonlisp (allegro) but never will be published or advertised.
mircea_popescu: consider what i'm actually saying : it's one thing to solve correctly a well defined problem ; it is another thing to solve well a nebulous one.
asciilifeform: they are not part of what folks think of as 'software ecosystem'
mircea_popescu: we'll be doing a lot of the 2nd willy-nilly.
asciilifeform: right
mircea_popescu: and it is good that the good tools, derived from 1st, get some battle experience.
asciilifeform: i can't argue with this.
mircea_popescu: so then why are you :)
asciilifeform: my objection was to 'lisp never tested in Serious Business'
mircea_popescu: I DID SAY!!11!! "without importing" did i ?
mircea_popescu: and yes, the more i hear about ada the more i like it, or properly speaking the more it sounds like right thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wish it weren't the right thing...
asciilifeform: but it is.
PeterL: asciilifeform could you make a "right thing" that is better than ada?
asciilifeform: has, e.g., predicated types. (which means, you can declare a variable, where, say, assigning a prime number to it is an error condition in the runtime. which means, yes, a check on EVERY assignment.)
asciilifeform: PeterL: when? by friday morning before breakfast ??
mircea_popescu: PeterL not in a lifetime.
PeterL: no, just conceivably, as in have you identified places where it could be improved?
mircea_popescu: liek that it's a pretty good q.
asciilifeform: PeterL: understand, ada is necessary because we are stuck with the idiot c machine.
asciilifeform: a properly constructed computer would perform ALL of the same checks, and more, IN HARDWARE
asciilifeform: but we haven't such a thing.
PeterL: aha, so if you ditch c-machine then you could do better?
asciilifeform: PeterL: definitionally
mircea_popescu: different and incomparable.
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: there's no "better" in that space.
mircea_popescu: also you can't implicitly sort complex numbers.
phf: well, incremental improvement on ada doesn't seem like a particularly interesting problem, thing comes with a lineage, wirth's pascal, modula, oberon; ada fits into that ecosystem, so simply going over wirth's research you can find a lot of existing ideas for ada improvements
asciilifeform: the 'better' is in the sense of 'less screaming idiocy in the mix'
mircea_popescu: if idiocy screamed in the forest where there's no alf the bee-dog to hear it,
mircea_popescu: would the world be better ?
asciilifeform: phf: there are some very obvious warts in the language - e.g., the compiler is one-pass and you end up having to write c-style prototypes for some functions.
asciilifeform: but there is also a STANDARD
asciilifeform: and if you improve the thing, you break it.
asciilifeform: as in common lisp.
phf: but if you start with scheme-81/cadr or greenarrays or whatever, could probably get more interesting results by a margin
mircea_popescu: incidentally, WHY is the compiler single pass ?
asciilifeform: phf: yes, but we haven't the factory.
asciilifeform: what we have is a great many rusty old pentiums.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why? because it is.
asciilifeform: because it made sense in 1980
asciilifeform: when cpu cycles were precious, and disks - glacially slow.
mircea_popescu: i've been wondering bout this.
mircea_popescu: but might be the lowest fruit.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i recommend the 'random walk' article to anyone with even a passive interest in the subj
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> [...] you can declare a variable, where, say, assigning a prime number to it is an error condition in the runtime. which means, yes, a check on EVERY assignment. <<< now imagine the converse type :D
asciilifeform: at least read the section about pointer leakage prevention
asciilifeform: it is unique, afaik, to ada
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l
mircea_popescu: aha ?
mircea_popescu: but there's a point here. it's not a bounded problem!
mircea_popescu: and yeah, i get the "doc it hurts when i do this" "so don't do it then" thing. but ...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: generally folks will use simple predicates (e.g., 'not equal to 0')
asciilifeform: sorta like c 'assert' but you can attach it to ~anything~
mircea_popescu: hey. is it a thing or is it not a thing! stop giving me jam!
asciilifeform: which ?
mircea_popescu: the predicated types.
mircea_popescu: "all of the same checks, and more, in hardware". what now ? miner core in every cpu, to check for primality ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: basic hygiene.
asciilifeform: as in, arrays live with their bounds
asciilifeform: and ALL accesses are bounds-checked;
mircea_popescu: your idea of basic hygiene differs from the medieval french only in form, not in substance.
mircea_popescu: it's still give or take "what everyone else does".
mircea_popescu: and fwiw most arabs'd be horrified at the notion of not actually washing bunghole after defecation.
asciilifeform: integers are MARKED AS SUCH and tested when arithmetizing;
mircea_popescu: poorest village public toilet still had water implement in working condition.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did not say that basic hygiene is a ~stopping~ place, but a starting point.
asciilifeform: we don't even HAVE the toilet yet.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that it being unbounded, it can't really be hardware.
asciilifeform: we're still at the shit-where-you-stand level.
asciilifeform: the basics ABSOLUTELY belong in hardware.
mircea_popescu: reasoning past the faith ?
hanbot: davout moar for you. http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-first-progress-report#comment-8410
asciilifeform: there is no excuse for buffer overflows to be a thing.
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: why not shit where you stand?
asciilifeform: in your pants?
asciilifeform: do i have to justify that also ?
mircea_popescu: listen : the EARTH permits you to do so.
mircea_popescu: do you propose "not shit where yo ustand" should be a property of earth and standing ?
mircea_popescu: would you buy pants with buttplug ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is a ludicrous analogy.
asciilifeform: the butt plug has a down side. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "as long as these are securely fastened, an absolute guarantee to no pants shitting can be offered by manufacturer". and yes i used such thjings, but for very peculiar purposes.
mircea_popescu: and if it's a shitty analogy blame yourself - you brought it in!
mircea_popescu: ha! what, and hardware has no downside ?!
mircea_popescu: now i understand why you expect the foundries to cost billionz! you're outsourcing!
asciilifeform: sane hardware has no downside other than it not yet existing.
mircea_popescu: ...
asciilifeform: in that respect it has the same downside as eschewing microshit had in 1995.
phf: that's a platonist right there
mircea_popescu: seems altogether easier for you to not shit where you stand than for us to create a new reality.
asciilifeform: not entirely new, examples existed as early as 1969
asciilifeform: (control data corp.'s products)
mircea_popescu: a more general and unrelated problem : why should the specific number of compiler passes be set down in the standard ?
mircea_popescu: i can't write sentences with a count at the end saying how many times you have to read them until you get them.
asciilifeform: 2.
asciilifeform: as for 'why standard' - it affects the semantics.
asciilifeform: ergo a standard is meaningless unless it contains it.
mircea_popescu: wasn't by any means a practical consideration. more of a "thinking about the compiler of the wetware future"
phf: $up a111
deedbot: a111 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: hola a111
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446778 << i also agree, i just politely pointed out that the feature is obviously needed, i just don't trust bot part enough yet to put more functionality on it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-06 12:30 asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf i find myself agreeing with adlai, the way we have it now, the log is in fact near-unreadable EXCEPT in wwwtron. links oughta dump into the chan assbot-style
mircea_popescu: o check it out , also had a bot.
phf: it's all bots sitting there unvoiced
mircea_popescu: juj
mircea_popescu: (ftn, juj = kik ^2 = lol ^ 4)
asciilifeform: what'd be the complex conjugate of l0l ?
asciilifeform: re earlier thread,
asciilifeform: http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/12rat/html/Rat12-2-5.html
asciilifeform: ^ predicates
mircea_popescu: which reminds me of my indignation in 9th grade. THERE ARE TWO COMPLEX CONJUGATES!!11
phf: $down a111
mircea_popescu: -a+bi / a + bi also!
mircea_popescu: "So we see that the predicate in the subtype Even cannot be a static predicate because the operator mod is not permitted with the current instance. But mod could be used in an inner static expression."
mircea_popescu: eh ffs.
mircea_popescu: even can be static irrespective of fucking mod wtf.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you gotta know what mod means in ada
mircea_popescu: "and, in addition, a call of a Boolean logical operator and, or, xor, not whose operands are such static predicate expressions, and, a static predicate expression in parentheses." << right there. a xor maxint-1 > 0
asciilifeform: it means 'takes up this-many bits REGARDLESS'
mircea_popescu: EVEN is wrongly defined is the point.
asciilifeform: where?
mircea_popescu: im quoting from your link.
trinque: phf: http://dpaste.com/1SZ14HH << here's what I beat your example into
trinque: maybe we can collaborate on getting a bot that, y'know, stays connected to an IRC channel
trinque: thing knows how to ghost, has your ping/pong code in it (thanks!)
trinque: and I have no idea if I did terrible things, so say so. I'm just some dude reading books on lisp that washed up on my island
asciilifeform: trinque: neato
trinque: where I (think I'm) headed is the bot being a separate module. code using the bot would pass the appropriate generic function to call for commands into make-bot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically they lazily decided "even" is to be tested by "mod", which is unacceptable if they're going to make mod randomly unavailable ; seeing how there are purely bit-logical ways to test for even-ness.
mircea_popescu: which they don't make similarly unavailable.
phf: trinque: you can forgo the whole nickserv integration by putting password into the irc:connect
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the bitwise thing works. i have nfi why not used in the example.
phf: or better yet add ssl key
asciilifeform: or actually i no
asciilifeform: *do
asciilifeform: say it's an algebraic type (e.g. bignum)
trinque: phf: ah that's simpler
asciilifeform: ada is a civilized lang like commonlisp and there is NOT a presumption that integers are machine words !
mircea_popescu: so you're saying i'm a sinful asm/cobol/c-head ?
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: for shame.
asciilifeform: it is curable tho!
phf: trinque: http://dpaste.com/1SZ14HH#line-549, (irc:connect :nickname *bot-nick* :server "irc.freenode.net" :password *bot-ns-password*)
phf: should solve all your service woes
phf: my ping/pong code was not very good. i reworked it yesterday, but haven't yet enabled on this guy, so if he falls over, it'll be quietly, and we'll know by lack of logs :D
trinque: and that'll just boot the previous instance of "deedbot" if I connect that way?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ada is a merciless thing. e.g., you cannot use two types interchangeably even if 'they're the same inside'; can only take pointers of items explicitly declared pointerable-to; by default, pointers only valid in the context where they were taken
mircea_popescu: aha.
phf: that was my impression since that's how my bouncer runs, and the only time i had issues is when my ssl cert silently expired. but come to think of it, i've not tested it
asciilifeform: the basic philosophy is to take the most dangerous knobs and attach broken glass spikes to them
asciilifeform: so programmer only grips it if he ~really~ must
asciilifeform: and feels the pain.
mircea_popescu: sounds a lot like v!
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so how is this wonder of a mod defined so it works on vectors ?
mircea_popescu: more importantly, if there's no assumption of machine register underlying, how exactly is it that they can always xor but only sometimes mod ?
phf: trinque: nope, there's no free lunch. irc force changes the nick, before there's a chance to ghost
mircea_popescu: seems to me xor is just as un-immediately defined on abstract types.
mircea_popescu: phf you can ghost arbitrary nick no matter what you'rte called.
mircea_popescu: then change your name.
phf: mircea_popescu: yeah, but then you have to write that logic into a bot. i was hoping that using login/password just kicks the previous account off
mircea_popescu: ah. yeah you would. i don't think they can maintain ircd loose network and have it do that.
trinque: phf: my bot-check-nick would still work in that case
trinque: can keep that and ditch the nickserv auth
phf: trinque: nah, your nick will autochange before the nickserv authentication. it's entirely broken, basically if you reg a, and a is already logged in, you get changed to a` and nickserv goes "why you giving me password, a` is not registered" ☟︎
trinque: right, my func is a hook for the welcome message
phf: so the entire nickserv machinery is required
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these were ~examples~
asciilifeform: not built into the language in any sense
asciilifeform: (examples of type-predicates you ~could~ make)
trinque: phf: seems if my nick is automagically changed, my welcome hook would notice that and do the ghost as written
trinque: I could just move the password and remove the case where my nick hasn't been changed
phf brb
trinque: eh I guess you end up doing both, because then you've still gotta nickserv auth
trinque: this protocol is shit
trinque: asciilifeform: pls halp
trinque: seems the voice model pairs with gossipd rather well, where voicing is a matter of message forwarding rules
asciilifeform: trinque: l0lwut
trinque: if one wanted a #trilema on the thing, that would perhaps be a matter of there being a #trilema node distinguishing official vs heathen chatter by what it bothers to send along to other nodes?
trinque: I could of course send you messages I somehow say are intended for #trilema entirely aside the point of whether the official node bothers with them
trinque: so then in this perhaps broken mental model of what the thing is, the trilema node would change whether it's gossiping about received messages based on wot ratings
asciilifeform: trinque: you are still thinking in the old style
mircea_popescu: trinque> seems the voice model pairs with gossipd rather well, where voicing is a matter of message forwarding rules << it doesn't even pair, it IS it. substance of the universe, not even protocol.
mircea_popescu: and yes, the concept of multiple "channels" is entirely user-powered, you can make lists of the people you listen to any way you want.
davout: deedbot: http://dpaste.com/3831YQD.txt
trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3831YQD.txt
deedbot-: accepted: 1
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1447053 << you don't go //msg NickServ identify p, you go /msg NickServ identify a p and THEN you go release a and then you go ghost a and then you go nick a and you're done. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: irrespective of any a'.
davout: trinque: danke schön
mircea_popescu: the protocol is not as bad as it is obscure.
mircea_popescu: ahaha bidding on own auction ? i gotta import this in eulora totally.
davout: not like they're my assets
trinque: bid his fee, heh!
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: when's it close, midnight today ?
davout: yeah, unless bidding action happens, in which case auction continues until no bid for one hour
mircea_popescu: still at what, 1% of historical valuation ? 2 ?
mircea_popescu: mebbe there's more interest.
davout: stay tuned!
PeterL: why are people putting bids in the second progress report comments, when the auction is supposed to be held in the comment section of the first progress report?
mircea_popescu: that's a good q.
PeterL: do those bids even count?
mircea_popescu: i can't see how ? prolly should put a notice to bid in the right place ?
PeterL: davout ^
mircea_popescu: in completely unrelated lolz, http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/the-worlds-most-expensive-book-will-remain-under-lock-and-key-until-the-march-2009-art-dubai-152983575.html
mircea_popescu: considering the alternative is reading the logs, 200mn might not even be a bad deal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l! does that fella also sell own shit ?
asciilifeform: for $trillion / turd ?
mircea_popescu: apaprently he does!
asciilifeform: mega-businessmodel.
mircea_popescu: software expertise, right ?
asciilifeform: aha.
PeterL: how to make a million dollars: sell a million things for a dollar or sell one thing for a million dollars
PeterL: all you need is the one chump who will give you the million
deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] Whatever pretense necessary - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/whatever-pretense-necessary/
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron but are you actually exempt or just claiming ?
danielpbarron shrugs
mircea_popescu: well, poverty is an absolute bar to the workings of law in the us, if you're poor you're priviledged. nevertheless the way this works is that you either say something or go to jail ; and if they decide you didn't say the right thing at some previous point you also go to jail.
mircea_popescu: in particular " Me: He was convicted on fraud charges; not tax avoidance. The prosecution made the case that he knowingly offered false advice in exchange for customer’s money." is a distinction without a difference. writing "extempt" when "you shouldn't have" is exactly what "fraud" means in that context.
danielpbarron: it's my understanding that in order to have 0 withheld, i also have to say exempt
danielpbarron: otherwise they take money out preemptively and I'd need to file to get it back
asciilifeform: if you're poor you're priviledged << waiwut?!
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
PeterL: nah, I did not claim exempt but had no withholdings last year
davout: lol wtf deedbot
PeterL: (but I claime a very high number of dependents)
danielpbarron: so not comparable to my situation..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you are poor in the us, the law doesn't (really) apply to you.
mircea_popescu: in most sane places, the way it works is that if you are RICH the law doesn't really apply to you. but in the us - converse.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only true in the 'blood from a stone' sense
asciilifeform: otherwise entirely on crack
mircea_popescu: and in the beat wife sense and in the won't pay tax/alimony/whatever sense, and in the stalking and raping sense and in all the fucking senses.
mircea_popescu: can go steal from mall sense, what.
davout: PeterL: yes, it's a good point, i'll move my comment and keep an eye open to move those that ended up commenting the wrong post
asciilifeform: if yer poor in usa, merely HAVING TO SHOW UP IN COURT is likely to cost you your job, for instance.
mircea_popescu: job ?
mircea_popescu: gtfo out of here.
asciilifeform: yes?
mircea_popescu: why would poor people have a job. that's the parole officer's problem.
asciilifeform: i'm speaking of poor, not lumpen scum
mircea_popescu: you're speaking of crack :)
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo I need moar qntra shares to prevent this poor woman from dying of overeat: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gastric-band-appeal-amy-murray-11138741
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the crack smokers, as mircea_popescu correctly observes, are more or less invulnerable.
asciilifeform: to anything short of thermonuke.
mircea_popescu: poverty means what it means, not what you dream it to be.
asciilifeform: how is my poverty not a poverty ?
mircea_popescu: the "poor but bright and loyal famr girl" exists in mosfilm propaganda.
PeterL: there is poor, working-class, and rich
PeterL: asciilifeform you are in the working-class
mircea_popescu: PeterL he has a peculiar notion of poor as "under the weather / skilled immigrant / etc"
asciilifeform: no i know about the lumpens.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the way society works is that it's either a crime to be poor ; or else ity's a crime to be rich. alternatives do not exist, it's a strict switch outside of the capacity of convention, like gravity : either motor force or splat.
mircea_popescu: and the us has switched, and that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: we know for a fact it's no crime to be poor, and what follows is that the law doesn't apply to you, just be poor.
asciilifeform: or ' be rat '
mircea_popescu: i'll have to have that rat thing demonstrated, doesn't seem to make much sense theoretically.
asciilifeform: nowhere does law apply to rat.
asciilifeform: rat has no possessions to confiscate, etc
mircea_popescu: all rats have nests.
asciilifeform: how long to set up rat nest ?
mircea_popescu: nfi. bout the same fraction of its life as it takes young male to get his first time house ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: half?!
mircea_popescu: mmmno. you're thinking of a young man that doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: actual young man goes into unrepayable debt, spends altogether maybe a year or so on the thing ?
mircea_popescu: less, really.
mircea_popescu: cue the canuck "renegotiable 5yr rate on 30 yr mortgages", i nearly fell over when i had that confirmed.
asciilifeform: if rats invent debt...
mircea_popescu: besides the point what non-poor, non-rat poeople invent
mircea_popescu: fact remains the3 biological machine will spend the same time doing the same things
mircea_popescu: just like blocks follow at ~the same intervals,
mircea_popescu: irrespective of what chip manufacturers invent
asciilifeform: lumpen is actually ~below~ rat.
asciilifeform: accumulates nothing.
asciilifeform: doesn't even try.
mircea_popescu: we can agree on this once you give your sorting criteria
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: note that philip also accumulated nothing.
asciilifeform: time horizon.
mircea_popescu: a, you got the macedon reference ? good for you!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunno any other philip
mircea_popescu: jus' halping teh reader along with some crumbs.
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: so i'm guessing danielpbarron is getting voted most likely to succeed jail ?
asciilifeform: perhaps we can sit in the same jail
mircea_popescu: afaik that's specifically not how jail works.
danielpbarron: from what I understand, they're supposed to tell me what i'm supposed to have paid, and if i refuse then to pay it -> jail
mircea_popescu: ironically i linked a piece about some other famous tax quarrel guy, who said the same thing (from jail)
mircea_popescu: days ago.
mircea_popescu: of course unlike that guy you don't have either millions in assets nor a wife more than happy to get it all in exchange for paying tax on it
asciilifeform: actually long before jail,
mircea_popescu: course, i suppose a wife could be found for the govt to cut the deal with.
asciilifeform: they confiscate anything you might have
asciilifeform: incl. any wage that is on record
danielpbarron: i wouldn't mind cutting them a check so much if they came and asked for it; I can't stand this whole "you do our work for us" ritual americans do every april
mircea_popescu: lollercopter.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron but if they just asked how would you know it's correct!
danielpbarron: if i think the amount they asked for is incorrect, i'd come up with my own number and challenge it
mircea_popescu: ("you'd have to do it in parallel anyway!" "well if you're doing it anyway, wouldn't it be ~rational~ they don';t do it at all and save the cost ?" << that's the logic.)
asciilifeform: this is not why.
asciilifeform: it is done as DELIBERATE 'let'em trip up and pay fine'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform both colors can be applied, mine's friendlier.
mircea_popescu: gotta appreciate - the us started exactly as a sort of tmsr of rich smugglers in an england province. conceptually it still sees broadly as this "gentleman's agreement" things etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: modern usa, taxwise, and in many other respects, is circa 1900 or so.
asciilifeform: the whole crud orchestra - pestilentially high tax, the resulting cancerous bureaucracy, usg as majority economic actor, the lot.
mircea_popescu: i dunno. who in 1900 had a large bureaucracy ? the chinese, and they got raped.
mircea_popescu: the tibetans. also raped.
mircea_popescu: nobody outside of southeast and central asia tho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ru
mircea_popescu: nah.
mircea_popescu: the tsar's thing was modest.
mircea_popescu: for most of the land barely even had a census mechanism.
mircea_popescu: $up pizzaman1337
deedbot: pizzaman1337 voiced for 30 minutes.
pizzaman1337: mircea_popescu: hey, long time no see.
mircea_popescu: funny, i was thinking the same thing.
pizzaman1337: one day I'm reading bitcoin-assets logs and bitbet is going... somewhere, mpex going private.. what's going on?
mircea_popescu: hey, spring in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: how's teh fiat world been treatin' ya ?
pizzaman1337: this doesn't seem to positive for bitcoin
pizzaman1337: lousy, like always
davout: best bid now stands at 15 btc
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: who ?
davout: mircea_popescu: http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-first-progress-report#comment-8416
davout: znort987 whoever that is
mircea_popescu: curious what this comes to :D
mircea_popescu: tbh, about as exciting as s.mg auctions lol. they always make my sunday.
davout: http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/znort987/
davout: he's in the mpex apparently
davout: mpex faq*
mircea_popescu: davout yeah, was a guy active in 2011/2012 that then disappeared.
mircea_popescu: reappearances of this kind always suspicious to me, but w/e.
davout: 2011? bleh, noob.
mircea_popescu: http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/znort987/
davout: anyway, i'm genuinely curious as to how much bitbet will end up selling for
mircea_popescu: yeah me2.
davout: brb, gonna post my 133.7 btc bid
mircea_popescu: anyway, guy got in faq because iirc he found some typo or something.
davout: :D
davout: which means he *did* read it
mircea_popescu: i don't rightly recall what it was, and i'm not even sure i was yet keeping irc logs at the very early time all this happened.
mircea_popescu: but the way mpoe happened was that basically i threw up the idea in chan and a bunch of the people then-active commented and so on.
davout: at that time i was like "i have nfi what this glbse thing is supposed to do, maybe i should do drugs instead"
davout: nefario asked me if i wanted to write the thing
PeterL: nafario asked me if I wanted to come to some conference to talk about how to use the thing
mircea_popescu: check out the old timer convention.
PeterL: lol
mircea_popescu: but yeah, any indignation at how retarded people are is readily tempered by memory of how fucking insane btcland was five years ago.
davout: i'm pretty sure we'll look back five years from now and witness pretty much the same thing
mircea_popescu: i hope.
mircea_popescu: just as long as it's not "o noes, recall 2016 golden age" we're golden.
davout: this is very true
davout: ;;later tell pete_dushenski you have a point, i did not specify a timezone for "the end of wednesday the 6th of april"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: you're like totally a noob receiver and everything.
mircea_popescu: should have played moar eulora, you'd know.
davout: shut pup
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: was there ever a btctronic auction site ?
davout: asciilifeform: there was, a long time ago
asciilifeform: and?
davout: i /think/ it was called bitmit
davout: apperently, according to condesk it got shut down after a 15 btc theft
mircea_popescu: there was an irc channel auction system. it died.
mircea_popescu: im currently trying to get an eulora player to implement proper auctions and reporting, but it's slow going.
mircea_popescu: davout bitmit was some retarded www.
diana_coman: bwahaha, is that any eulora player in particular?
mircea_popescu: lobbes, recall ?
mircea_popescu: we had this convo a few weeks ago.
mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-02-20.log.html#t16:14:05 << guy who did the #eulora logger / link reader / rss thing.
phf: auction seems like a slow day feature for deedbot
mircea_popescu: eh, let him do wallets.
davout: phf: requires voice, gpg etc. might not always be desired
davout: mircea_popescu: why would one desire such an abomination?
diana_coman: ah, you mean auctions and reporting in chan, I was thinking in game stuff
mircea_popescu: i'd much rather have some separation between things.
mircea_popescu: davout what abomination ?
mircea_popescu: diana_coman well in game-stuff i ideally want to change the chat to irc, but hey.
davout: deedbot acting like a wallet
mircea_popescu: so i can $pay etc.
davout: like a changetip inside deedbot?
mircea_popescu: quite.
davout: might as well use changetip
mircea_popescu: go through the logs, the thing is specced in the prev discussion with trinque.
mircea_popescu: no, might NOT as well.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, those people are schmucks. but even if they weren't schmucks, not in wot.
mircea_popescu: someone pretending to do dev work and not being in wot is ipso facto saying "i am a fraudster trying to sell my shit as software".
asciilifeform: ^
davout: re a better specified auction deadline, i think it's best to precise it to "the end of wednesday the 6th of april, in whatever timezone this event happens last"
mircea_popescu: diana_coman maybe by the time that's on the plate, we actually change in-game chat to gossipd.
mircea_popescu: that'll be a sight.
davout: aka end of wed 6th of april GMT-12
mircea_popescu: davout it's certainly a softfork :)
asciilifeform: but why the fuck would you put a wallet in deedbot?!
mircea_popescu: ie, doesn't break what you said prior.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so i can $pay.
davout: hehe, precisely a soft-fork indeed
asciilifeform: WHY
mircea_popescu: so...i...can...$pay!!1
davout: so noon GMT on thursday it shall be
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you mean so that trinque has to build a castle around the server ? ☟︎
davout: asciilifeform: no you don't it, so we can tip each other!!1
davout: don't get*
phf: davout: easiest option is to always put an iso8601 timestamp on things, 2016-04-06T23:59:00Z or somesuch
asciilifeform: wat
davout: phf: indeed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, i mean so that trinque gets experience with castles, sure.
mircea_popescu: and don't fucking start with the dc current scandal all over again!
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: yea ? what!
mircea_popescu: how the fuck are you going to introduce payment for, eg, deeds ? and if you do, how is it going to beat $pay deed.
mircea_popescu: let it be, it's good.
asciilifeform: http://sworthodoxy.blogspot.com/2015/08/ada-2012-type-invariants-and-predicates.html << re earlier
asciilifeform: 'prime number type'
mircea_popescu: loller!
mircea_popescu: come to think about it
mircea_popescu: $rated lobbes
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated lobbes 2 at 3632157688 << #eulora logs bot
mircea_popescu: a ok.
asciilifeform: http://sworthodoxy.blogspot.com/2014/03/ada-vs-c-bit-fields.html << also of interest
mats: thanks for operating mpex
asciilifeform: re last 2 paras
mircea_popescu: cheers.
asciilifeform: 'As a software safety engineer I find the implementation-defined aspects of C++ bit-fields to be very unsettling. A project may verify that its C++ bit-fields work as intended on a particular architecture, but when a technology refresh is performed in several years, there is no assurance that the C++ program will continue to work properly on the new hardware. The failure of the C++ program to run on
asciilifeform: the new hardware will be received as a complete surprise by most users of the upgraded system and by their management. The surprise may be accompanied by hazardous events because of incorrect control of a safety critical system. People may be injured or die, the environment may be seriously damaged, and very expensive systems may be damaged or destroyed. The root cause of the hazards will not be po
deedbot hands you a broomstick.
asciilifeform: or functional requirements, poor design, or programming mistakes. The root cause of the hazards will be exposure of implementation-defined behaviors in a programming language. Who will the lawyers sue over the consequences of those hazards?'
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: whoever ok'd using c++ i guess.
mircea_popescu: the thing clearly says "no guarantee not even for fitness to a particular purpose". if you use such items in your "safety engineering" you're liable.
mircea_popescu: i don't see hospitals using bags of "saline" that come with a "warning : not suitable for use" on them.
mircea_popescu: "o noes, who will we sue when they turn out to be full of piss!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in usa software cos were EXEMPTED from liability suits
mircea_popescu: yawell.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you explain the concept of "contiguity" as seen in this ada spec discussion ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hm?
mats: i initially started with ~15btc in my coinbr piggy a little more than two years ago, deposited another 15 a year later. today, i'm walking away with 60btc in profit and a 30btc stake in s.nsa
mircea_popescu: "While range specifications are very useful, they are also highly limited in their usefulness. Ada ranges must always be contiguous. This means that you cannot specify an integer data type of only even numbers, for instance. Even numbers are not contiguous."
mircea_popescu: mats pretty cool!
mats: thanks for all the fish
mircea_popescu: how are even numbers any less "contiguous" than say natural numbers ffs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it means you ought to be able to get successor by + and predecessor by -.
phf: asciilifeform: i somehow hosed my gentoo install, everything's giving me 'libstdc++.so.6 no such file' :o
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1447290 << the thing can work without a hot wallet at all, provided there's a reasonable duration to accomodate cashing out. ☝︎
asciilifeform: phf: http://tech.venefyxatu.be/item/57
davout: trinque: a hot wallet is absolute heresy
deedbot-: [fr.anco.is] BitBet auction deadline postponed (slightly) - http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-auction-deadline-postponed-slightly
trinque: davout: yup.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also interesting,
asciilifeform: http://sworthodoxy.blogspot.com/2014/03/watching-world-from-intersection-of.html
phf: danke schön
trinque: davout: no way in hell I'd run such a thing without it involving the airgap dance.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought "mod is not defined because bignum"
mircea_popescu: then we discover that > is nevertheless defined, in spite of EXACT EQUIV OF MOD
mircea_popescu: and now it turns out that + and - are in the same exact situation.
mircea_popescu: 1) how do you get "next" vector with + ?
mircea_popescu: 2) why the fuck exactly do you think you can get 3 as 2+1 in "natural" space but you don't see that you get 4 as 2+1 in "even natural" space ?
mircea_popescu: even numbers and natural numbers are EXACTLY as anything as the other one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i didn't build the thing!1111
mircea_popescu: ima write a trilema piece about this today.
asciilifeform: read 'rationale' 1st ?
mircea_popescu: yeah and other things.
mircea_popescu: will be more of a "inquiring" piece than anything,
mircea_popescu: i'm not preparing to damn ada by any means.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it has sharp edges but afaik it is the best we have short of massive-runtime-turd abominations like haskell.
phf: mircea_popescu: i think it's because whole thing is various degrees of successful abstraction on top of von neumann machine
phf: fixed width natural numbers are implemented at bedrock, so in order to support anything else you have to create an abstraction, keep it consistent with the rest of language features, etc. so you either get overspecialized languages like apl (with their runtime costs) or monsters like haskell ☟︎
phf: lisp's answer is given von neumann what's most flexible model, ada's answer is given von neumann how do we put enough constraints that there are runtime reliability guarantees
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-06#1446968 << Aha, like someone giving you a wedie while you wear buttplug attached pants ☝︎
asciilifeform: phf nailed it.
ben_vulpes: what was it, max dynamicism vs max strictness
phf: haskell's answer was to pretend like von neumann machine doesn't exist, a goal at which it failed in various interesting ways
phf: like the attempts to teach type system about integer overfloats
phf: err, overflows, though float errors are another one
jurov: http://hackingdistributed.com/2016/04/05/how-software-gets-bloated/ ada alone won't deliver us from this ☟︎
jurov: "In my experience, software bloat almost always comes from smart, often the smartest, devs who are technically the most competent. Couple their abilities with a few narrowly interpreted constraints, a well-intentioned effort to save the day.."
shinohai: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160329/15041234047/71-want-dark-net-shut-down-showing-most-have-no-idea-what-dark-net-is.shtml
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 406084 | Current Difficulty: 1.668515132827772E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 407231 | Next Difficulty In: 1147 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 0 days, 6 hours, 13 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: myspace was a knockoff http://fuckyeahstlpunk.tumblr.com/
asciilifeform: jurov: monstrous idiocy
asciilifeform: the solution to 'clever trick makers' is to kick in their teeth
asciilifeform: and if they aren't in range - negrate.
jurov: asciilifeform: ver well, so if you were tasked to do that "family" function you'd started to kick out teeth around?
gernika: If asciilifeform ever accidentally ends up at the same hotel as a rails convention, I expect to see a lot of shattered teeth on the floor.