600+ entries in 0.15s
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I was trying to find information on
gossipd, followed the 'how to participate in the affairst of the republic' link on the channel automatic text you get when you enter and reached the
gossipd design document.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure i want
gossipd lines to be longer than irc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unless the fucking fp can fit in irc, we're stuck building
gossipd before using this "Actual thing"
mircea_popescu: so i always imagined that to plug web ie blogs such as trilema into
gossipd, what'd happen would be that i'd announce what the article is and what the comments were.
mircea_popescu: the reason i didn't start the
gossipd discussion with trilema specifically has to do with the comments problem. which is : there's some implicit authority-and-authorship play wrt comments, as reader is more interested in mp's idea of what comments were than in random spew, and by a large factor.
trinque: I'm speaking of publishing, not how
gossipd nodes move packets
mircea_popescu: so then why not simply pipe the current apache or w/e into
gossipd.
trinque: and yep, derives directly from notions being formed in the
gossipd threads
mircea_popescu: shit's in
gossipd design papers too, and really everywhere.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:50 trinque: hypertext on
gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely.
trinque: you belch out facts, rest of the world can either hear you or not, can either confirm you said them or not. or wtf was
gossipd again?
trinque: so yes, if wot.deedbot.org were on
gossipd it'd eat by bot attached to particular station, maybe redundant somehow, but leaving that aside, this contemplated DHT could still make particular states of the thing redundant past the the death of trinque
trinque: by sending you a key over
gossipd trinque: how the p2p networks, gnutella et al, worked, but routed over
gossipd wotnet
trinque: hypertext on
gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely.
☟︎ trinque: this isn't even the
gossipd thing I brought up. it's what your computer already does.
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701966 << more importantly, and more subtly, it sells you on the notion that "dh is a prerequisite for handshakes", which happens to be false. for one thing, you can shake a friend's hand without the usg being involved. for another,
gossipd does not use dh for handshake. in short, the usgtardian nonsense is always there to distract you while it implants simpler points deep into the reptile b
☝︎ mircea_popescu: and trinque was about to release a payments thing for deedbot by ... end of july yo! and then there's the ffa growing towards a proper tmsr-rsa, and of course the
gossipd sandbox, and a coupla yet sikrit items and so on
mircea_popescu: but yes, for unrelated reasons fixed size is the right choice for
gossipd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was discussing a more general rsa scheme, not
gossipd specifically.
mircea_popescu: this scheme is both slow and bulky. it is not likely useful for
gossipd-style comms. it is certainly valuable for signing material, especially because rsa signature is much more padding-vulnerable than encryption ; and perhaps for some limited encryption work.
mircea_popescu: ime, but the only guarantee the design provides is that it will die out EVENTUALLY. for all you know it can survive years through sheer chance. so weak keys are a very serious potential problem for
gossipd.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 00:17 asciilifeform: sina: the reason why i am not particularly hot&bothered, is that your prototype does not contain any of the parts that comprise 99+% of the necessary work of an adult
gossipd PeterL: my last question, is
gossipd supposed to automatically share peer information with other peers to build up the network, or is all peer addition supposed to be manual?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-22 22:24 PeterL: (I have been thinking about
gossipd, it is a fascinating subject)
PeterL: so for
gossipd, I get a message, and (assuming it was encrypted to me) I can tell which of my keys it was encrypted to
PeterL: (I have been thinking about
gossipd, it is a fascinating subject)
☟︎ mircea_popescu: what, that they happened over freenode rather than over
gossipd ? that the latter is "not properly uci" ?
mircea_popescu: back to the topic : the idea is to have properly arranged owned boxes. this will include
gossipd as a basis, uci on top of that if the OWNer opts to, bitcoind on top of that likely, a devenv, whatever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would it be "mirceapopescu os" ? it's just a sane os. he can say hi in
gossipd.
mircea_popescu: suppose you have nodes A, B behind a nat. suppose A and B run
gossipd, and have been introduced to C. A aiming to connect to B or vice-versa for any reason is accomplished through : A asks C for an ip for B. C provides A with ip for B and B with notification of A's request (at the least, its ip).
mircea_popescu: but whosoever does connect, puts in tmsr, ie,
gossipd + uci whatever.
mircea_popescu: making everything depend on
gossipd present and running is the right thing anyway.
mircea_popescu: basically the operating system of the republic will be
gossipd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's the thing : we don't actually have the problem of nat traversal. in the following sense :
gossipd is not intended to work without introduction. as part of the introduction, the introducer server can provide ips. those can then be used for everything, bitcoind, you name it.
mircea_popescu: sina's actually working on something closer to your original idea,
gossipd.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:19 mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a
gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
mircea_popescu: so more like all-exposed-functionality) -> ((
gossipd:all-message-since "give me all the
gossipd message since a certain timestamp") ((timestamp fixnum positive "timestamp (in seconds since epoch) since which messages") ...))
a111: Logged on 2017-07-09 16:19 phf: (all-exposed-functionality) -> ((
gossipd:all-message-since "give me all the
gossipd message since a certain timestamp") ((timestamp fixnum "timestamp (in seconds since epoch) since which messages") ...))
phf: (all-exposed-functionality) -> ((
gossipd:all-message-since "give me all the
gossipd message since a certain timestamp") ((timestamp fixnum "timestamp (in seconds since epoch) since which messages") ...))
☟︎ phf: in the WIRE/REMOTE approach you connect to instance, and do a function call that the author told you about ahead of time. in one case it might (
gossipd:all-message-since timestamp) in another (ben-vulpes-block-chainer:get-block n)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you are running a computer. (not crap, an actual tmsr is happy with machine). when i start mine up, i want to get some bits from you. maybe it's "what sina said about mp on
gossipd". maybe it's "the nth block in the current blockchain". maybe it's whatever it is. how does it do this ?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 00:17 sina: yes and it's understood, I'm not trying to make "
gossipd for alfs dystopian future" just have some fun for me
sina: imagine flatfile example of "assigning" generated key from "available" => "user" state, or "user" => "bogus" state, that's moving a keyfile from
gossipd/keys/available to
gossipd/keys/users/foo or similar action, now my program has to either invoke "mv" or write mv-like functionality into my app
sina: and now if I want to do it in flatfile,
gossipd code becomes
gossipd + "sinas shitty db-less attempt"
sina: yes and it's understood, I'm not trying to make "
gossipd for alfs dystopian future" just have some fun for me
☟︎ phf: i suspect the thinking is that you'll be running a local instance of
gossipd, to which you connect over irc, so its main interface is some subset of irc (kind of how bouncers or bitlbee do it)
sina: mircea_popescu: ssh root@45.77.66.53 in two windows, one '
gossipd'. other 'gossipc --send-message --source whoever --message whatever' and then 'gossipc -g' to view msgs
mircea_popescu: bitcoin+
gossipd+uci -> pretty much time to say goodnight.
mircea_popescu: obviously not. just, you realise, it's a republican artefact, "1st pcap of an early
gossipd attempt"
sina: github.com/sinner-/
gossipd sina: especially for the usecase of
gossipd, python cannot be the final lang
mircea_popescu: notice how it's not even POSSIBLE for the "same" message to be delivered via
gossipd. for purely quantic reasons.
sina:
http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ III.
Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is dropped.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, then i confused things by way of saying that "challenge-response needs to be ditched in
gossipd model". hmm. i did think that the two items are not conceptually separable anymore
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah lighthouse discussion does complicate matters, the fact of the matter is, it's the only current (written) alternative to DoS-prone traditional challenge-response (A asks B to plz send challenge, A then response to B with that challenge), within
gossipd universe
mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a
gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:45 Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his
gossipd bed
Framedragger: A and B may then decide to enter some different "state" but the general
gossipd design is stateless, i.e. there is no session