log☇︎
600+ entries in 0.173s
a111: 222 results for "from:mircea_popescu gossipd", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea_popescu%20gossipd
asciilifeform: !#s from:mircea_popescu gossipd
Ingolfr_Arnarson: And mentioned gossipd was the name of the actual thing. ☟︎
Ingolfr_Arnarson: I was trying to find information on gossipd, followed the 'how to participate in the affairst of the republic' link on the channel automatic text you get when you enter and reached the gossipd design document.
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure i want gossipd lines to be longer than irc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unless the fucking fp can fit in irc, we're stuck building gossipd before using this "Actual thing"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it's pretty lulzy. picture gossipd but 0 even attempt at crypto, and you nearly have it.
mircea_popescu: so i always imagined that to plug web ie blogs such as trilema into gossipd, what'd happen would be that i'd announce what the article is and what the comments were.
mircea_popescu: the reason i didn't start the gossipd discussion with trilema specifically has to do with the comments problem. which is : there's some implicit authority-and-authorship play wrt comments, as reader is more interested in mp's idea of what comments were than in random spew, and by a large factor.
trinque: I'm speaking of publishing, not how gossipd nodes move packets
mircea_popescu: so then why not simply pipe the current apache or w/e into gossipd.
trinque: and yep, derives directly from notions being formed in the gossipd threads
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-27#1730046 so basically publish via gossipd ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: why do we use freenode rather than gossipd ?
mircea_popescu: shit's in gossipd design papers too, and really everywhere.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715867 << damn, i shoulda freaked out when sina wanted to show me his gossipd. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:50 trinque: hypertext on gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely.
trinque: you belch out facts, rest of the world can either hear you or not, can either confirm you said them or not. or wtf was gossipd again?
trinque: so yes, if wot.deedbot.org were on gossipd it'd eat by bot attached to particular station, maybe redundant somehow, but leaving that aside, this contemplated DHT could still make particular states of the thing redundant past the the death of trinque
trinque: by sending you a key over gossipd
trinque: how the p2p networks, gnutella et al, worked, but routed over gossipd wotnet
trinque: hypertext on gossipd may sensibly *lack* the notion of "website" entirely. ☟︎
trinque: this isn't even the gossipd thing I brought up. it's what your computer already does.
AlfredAlfer: ahh yes gossipd
a111: 706 results for "gossipd", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gossipd
trinque: !#s gossipd
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-01#1708277 << right solution to this is called gossipd, one of the items in the works. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701966 << more importantly, and more subtly, it sells you on the notion that "dh is a prerequisite for handshakes", which happens to be false. for one thing, you can shake a friend's hand without the usg being involved. for another, gossipd does not use dh for handshake. in short, the usgtardian nonsense is always there to distract you while it implants simpler points deep into the reptile b ☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701847 << in this case, they actually work on gossipd. you seen that ? sina/peterl made mockups. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and trinque was about to release a payments thing for deedbot by ... end of july yo! and then there's the ffa growing towards a proper tmsr-rsa, and of course the gossipd sandbox, and a coupla yet sikrit items and so on
PeterL: Hi everybody, here is my gossipd with the changes suggested yesterday http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pf24N/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: but yes, for unrelated reasons fixed size is the right choice for gossipd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was discussing a more general rsa scheme, not gossipd specifically.
mircea_popescu: this scheme is both slow and bulky. it is not likely useful for gossipd-style comms. it is certainly valuable for signing material, especially because rsa signature is much more padding-vulnerable than encryption ; and perhaps for some limited encryption work.
mircea_popescu: ime, but the only guarantee the design provides is that it will die out EVENTUALLY. for all you know it can survive years through sheer chance. so weak keys are a very serious potential problem for gossipd.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-08 18:55 PeterL: so I felt like taking a stab at gossipd, take a look? http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ul3Op/?raw=true
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 00:17 asciilifeform: sina: the reason why i am not particularly hot&bothered, is that your prototype does not contain any of the parts that comprise 99+% of the necessary work of an adult gossipd
asciilifeform: i'ma save log space, and invite PeterL to read what i observed re the last d00d's gossipd prototype.
PeterL: so I felt like taking a stab at gossipd, take a look? http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ul3Op/?raw=true ☟︎
PeterL: my last question, is gossipd supposed to automatically share peer information with other peers to build up the network, or is all peer addition supposed to be manual?
a111: Logged on 2017-07-22 22:24 PeterL: (I have been thinking about gossipd, it is a fascinating subject)
PeterL: so for gossipd, I get a message, and (assuming it was encrypted to me) I can tell which of my keys it was encrypted to
PeterL: (I have been thinking about gossipd, it is a fascinating subject) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: what, that they happened over freenode rather than over gossipd ? that the latter is "not properly uci" ?
mircea_popescu: back to the topic : the idea is to have properly arranged owned boxes. this will include gossipd as a basis, uci on top of that if the OWNer opts to, bitcoind on top of that likely, a devenv, whatever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would it be "mirceapopescu os" ? it's just a sane os. he can say hi in gossipd.
mircea_popescu: there is no such distinction. gossipd carries all.
mircea_popescu: you become C for D in gossipd.
mircea_popescu: suppose you have nodes A, B behind a nat. suppose A and B run gossipd, and have been introduced to C. A aiming to connect to B or vice-versa for any reason is accomplished through : A asks C for an ip for B. C provides A with ip for B and B with notification of A's request (at the least, its ip).
mircea_popescu: mno. because gossipd provides IPs.
mircea_popescu: because they get their ips FROM gossipd.
mircea_popescu: but whosoever does connect, puts in tmsr, ie, gossipd + uci whatever.
mircea_popescu: making everything depend on gossipd present and running is the right thing anyway.
mircea_popescu: not intended to work except atop gossipd.
asciilifeform: gossipd dun have the problem
mircea_popescu: basically the operating system of the republic will be gossipd.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's the thing : we don't actually have the problem of nat traversal. in the following sense : gossipd is not intended to work without introduction. as part of the introduction, the introducer server can provide ips. those can then be used for everything, bitcoind, you name it.
asciilifeform: the other practicality is that certain hypothetical uses of rsa -- such as specifically gossipd -- magnify this leak to the point where you are broadcasting the key at a few kHz
mircea_popescu: sina's actually working on something closer to your original idea, gossipd.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 02:19 mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."
asciilifeform: ( i dun know of any compelling practical reason to do this, outside of something like a hand-sewn gossipd packet filter in asm on bare iron, for max horsepower )
mircea_popescu: so more like all-exposed-functionality) -> ((gossipd:all-message-since "give me all the gossipd message since a certain timestamp") ((timestamp fixnum positive "timestamp (in seconds since epoch) since which messages") ...))
a111: Logged on 2017-07-09 16:19 phf: (all-exposed-functionality) -> ((gossipd:all-message-since "give me all the gossipd message since a certain timestamp") ((timestamp fixnum "timestamp (in seconds since epoch) since which messages") ...))
phf: (all-exposed-functionality) -> ((gossipd:all-message-since "give me all the gossipd message since a certain timestamp") ((timestamp fixnum "timestamp (in seconds since epoch) since which messages") ...)) ☟︎
phf: in the WIRE/REMOTE approach you connect to instance, and do a function call that the author told you about ahead of time. in one case it might (gossipd:all-message-since timestamp) in another (ben-vulpes-block-chainer:get-block n)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you are running a computer. (not crap, an actual tmsr is happy with machine). when i start mine up, i want to get some bits from you. maybe it's "what sina said about mp on gossipd". maybe it's "the nth block in the current blockchain". maybe it's whatever it is. how does it do this ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1680903 << moreover fixing this in stone seems like a poorly understood prerequisite for both gossipd and bitcoin itself. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 00:17 sina: yes and it's understood, I'm not trying to make "gossipd for alfs dystopian future" just have some fun for me
sina: https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd/commit/54254c22bdeec2355fea22b069bdeee97a57b1ca << no more sqlite
sina: https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd/commit/6b223735793022b4d6851721663d5cde3ade9014
sina: imagine flatfile example of "assigning" generated key from "available" => "user" state, or "user" => "bogus" state, that's moving a keyfile from gossipd/keys/available to gossipd/keys/users/foo or similar action, now my program has to either invoke "mv" or write mv-like functionality into my app
sina: and now if I want to do it in flatfile, gossipd code becomes gossipd + "sinas shitty db-less attempt"
sina: yes and it's understood, I'm not trying to make "gossipd for alfs dystopian future" just have some fun for me ☟︎
asciilifeform: sina: the reason why i am not particularly hot&bothered, is that your prototype does not contain any of the parts that comprise 99+% of the necessary work of an adult gossipd ☟︎
phf: i suspect the thinking is that you'll be running a local instance of gossipd, to which you connect over irc, so its main interface is some subset of irc (kind of how bouncers or bitlbee do it)
asciilifeform: sina: no remote traffic via irc contemplated at any point in the gossipd threads
sina: mircea_popescu: ssh root@45.77.66.53 in two windows, one 'gossipd'. other 'gossipc --send-message --source whoever --message whatever' and then 'gossipc -g' to view msgs
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677070 << and that's when you realize that the ~adult~ gossipd is a 150x moar complicated item.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-30 15:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677070 << and that's when you realize that the ~adult~ gossipd is a 150x moar complicated item.
mircea_popescu: definitely an item for gossipd.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677070 << and that's when you realize that the ~adult~ gossipd is a 150x moar complicated item. ☝︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: comms over gossipd
mircea_popescu: bitcoin+gossipd+uci -> pretty much time to say goodnight.
mircea_popescu: obviously not. just, you realise, it's a republican artefact, "1st pcap of an early gossipd attempt"
sina: github.com/sinner-/gossipd
mircea_popescu: so, sina , shall we give this gossipd of yours a go ?
sina: especially for the usecase of gossipd, python cannot be the final lang
sina: https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:32 Framedragger: (ah in fact a bit up the stack, http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-121602)
mircea_popescu: notice how it's not even POSSIBLE for the "same" message to be delivered via gossipd. for purely quantic reasons.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675603 << because this imports GPS into gossipd, or most of gossipd history will not contain GPS or anything like it. ☝︎
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, some yrs before being introduced to mircea_popescu, wrote an (unpublished) algo, 'kapelle', that resembled mircea_popescu's gossipd. hence 'strong feelingz'
sina: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is dropped.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: ah, then i confused things by way of saying that "challenge-response needs to be ditched in gossipd model". hmm. i did think that the two items are not conceptually separable anymore
asciilifeform: Framedragger: recall, mircea_popescu and asciilifeform never came to a 'hey we have this 1 algo', so all q re 'gossipd' presume, imho, mircea_popescu's algo, which was actually called so
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah lighthouse discussion does complicate matters, the fact of the matter is, it's the only current (written) alternative to DoS-prone traditional challenge-response (A asks B to plz send challenge, A then response to B with that challenge), within gossipd universe
mircea_popescu: there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to." ☟︎
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i fucking can't reckon right now why output of lighthouse has to be unpredictable. damn it :D *if* all packets are signed with peer keys that receiving peer already has, timestamp with defined validity window would avoid replay... (http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119045)
a111: Logged on 2017-06-28 01:45 Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed
Framedragger: A and B may then decide to enter some different "state" but the general gossipd design is stateless, i.e. there is no session