BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> we even have something called a 'ground wasp' here << easy to get rid of
☟︎ BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Errored out on loading, but basically they closed the DAOscam bet early with a refund.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 01:43 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> we even have something called a 'ground wasp' here << easy to get rid of
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Do you know where thier hole is?
BingoBoingo: Anyways once you find their holes pour a bit of gasoline down there and then plug the hole with dirt.
BingoBoingo: or there's commercial off the shelf aerosol foams that do the same thing, but that's basically the formula. Or do left coasters just let the ground wasps be?
BingoBoingo ought to just seriously start WoT lawncare service
deedbot: shinohai rated trinque 1 at 3650630430 << Thanks for the help w/ Gentoo
shinohai: $v 74F71E6F46DED7928F1F7847FECA68399346703155CE6A676A7496146460A9AF
davout: "So for your Christopher Columbo detective skills, bravo, partially exposed for no reason, angry, sociopath lady!" <<< win
davout: this guy has it: "Just start a new one. Call yourselves "the official foundation", register a domain and go."
a111: Logged on 2016-05-15 00:03 asciilifeform: i love it when mircea_popescu takes 'my' traditional side in argument - e.g., as seen here, argument ad metacocksucknsa
mircea_popescu: yet some general considerations are possible. like, if the house's in a swamp, safe bet it has none. stuff like that.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't ever speak to the PRINCIPLE of the cellar, however. it's always a discussion of the circumstances of the house.
mircea_popescu: can't believe how much hanbot 's shirt bothered teh free & teh brave interneteer community.
mircea_popescu: one of these days i should get a client that's not retarded enough to split urls.
mircea_popescu: anyway. nothing wrong with that split. i guess eventually "Sane irc client" will be a project.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hot damn, your idea of the irc protocol as implemented'd better not require an irc client the size of an os!
mircea_popescu: anyway. messages should be ordered by protocol, through the fact you can't decrypt the latter without the former.
mircea_popescu: it'll give the "get the fuck out of the boondocks" some very real bite.
mircea_popescu: "bitch, you wanna live in the us, well... learn to ham radio then i guess ?"
mircea_popescu: note that there's no hard limit here. suppose, and again, this is just a blackboard mock-up, not a technical implementation :
mircea_popescu: message contains 10 keys. rule is that you use the lowest.
mircea_popescu: then if i get a message with 3rd key and none with 1 or 2, i put it first
mircea_popescu: if later i get a message with key 1, i put it before the 3rd key one.
mircea_popescu: (this being a problem first encountered by monks with books)
phf: asciilifeform: ircv3 supports backdating (as well as "batch" message spool). i've hacked together backdating for erc, since znc supports it for spooling missed messages, but clients like irssi support it out of the box
mircea_popescu: actually, let me go into detail, why the hell not. ("because derps stalk the logs for examples of how x doesn't understand y" "and ?" "myeah.")
☟︎ mircea_popescu: so : the genesis message, ie, the first communication between a pair (gossipd is a pairwise comms mechanism) includes 10 keys.
mircea_popescu: message A (G3) shows up, if no A(G1) or A(G2) is present, it goes in first. if A(G1) shows up later, it goes before A(G3). which means the list gets reordered.
mircea_popescu: then at the next level, if B(A5(G3)) shows up, it goes in next.
mircea_popescu: once B(A3(G3)) shows up, it goes obviously before B(A5(G3)), so the list is now {A(G1) ; A(G3) ; B(A3(G3)) ; B(A5(G3))}
mircea_popescu: if at this point a B(A8(G1)) should show up, it should be sorted somewhere in the list. but where ?
mircea_popescu: this, i believe, should be a setting exposed to the user. wherever the fuck he wants it to be sorted.
mircea_popescu: could have hard-lowest-level-first sortage, so it goes before A(G3) because it's off G1.
mircea_popescu: could have a binary or decimal scheme where 3 * 2^1 + 5 is compared with 1 * 2 ^ 1 + 8
mircea_popescu: in any case, however the list may be sorted by the peer, ITS peers get the list as it has it at that point.
mircea_popescu: and if in THAT conversation it uses C(B1(A1)) to transmit {A(G1) ; A(G3) ; B(A3(G3)) ; B(A8(G1)) ; B(A5(G3))} then that's that.
mircea_popescu: as a side-effect, the ability to extract political time out of this arrangement reduces to being well connected to well connected nodes that are connected to well connected nodes etc.
mircea_popescu: similarily, the ACTUAL order of message, and the presence or absence of "j/k" messages in there can a) never be established beyond reasonable doubt and b) can only be usefully guessed by people. which is to say, well connected, intelligent nodes.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: so, to belabour this point : if users are u1, u2, u3 and u4 ;
mircea_popescu: and in the relationship u1-u2 G is "Hai u2 howru" and then A1(G) is "fine ty.", and A5(G) is "urmom's a ho!" and A9(G) is "lol j/k",
mircea_popescu: whereas in the relationship u3-u2 G is "Hello u2" and A1(G) is "Hi!" and B1(A1(G)) is "How goes ?" and C1(B1(A1(G)))) is
mircea_popescu: then in the relationship u3-u1 whatever G may be A1(G) will be
mircea_popescu: at which point u1 can verify that HE didn't get the A5 or the A9. And he couldn't care less that it's a "network problem" or intentional withholding, much like MPEx doesn't gas what proxies do or don't do on the way.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile u4 has absolutely nfi wtf went down there, u2 may be an asshole or fucking around or w/e.
mircea_popescu: and there's sure as fuck no way for u4 to prove to u* that u2 insulted u1's mom, or didn't.
mircea_popescu: now something like a111 would run on an "observer" node, which is to say with the rule that it doesn't publish/pass lines not reported by the putative author. because those constitute...gossip.
mircea_popescu: and the (otherwise spurious) concept of "a chan" reduces to "a list of specified broadcast recipients".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: you gotta plox take pix and make a blogpost of this once.
mircea_popescu: hey, that's their problem. you're there on business, gotta have the pics to make a call.
mircea_popescu: landlord can't show the house, his job to fix that. if he can show the house, you're taking pix.
mircea_popescu: you have nfi what pile of people all over think "like in america" is a superlative.
mircea_popescu: i dunno of any country where the students don't THINK ustardians live like in "friends".
mircea_popescu: studends are, at least in most of the world, the people who value their cunt closest to its true value.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck BUYS oceanfront property for instance. other than a hedge fund / the miami mahjongg club
mircea_popescu: even fucking GE sold its own fucking machinery to GF to lease it from them
mircea_popescu: hm ? renting house is exactly the same, lower cost to carry.
mircea_popescu: if you have that money, you find a partner and start a real estate corp, and go rent yourself a house.
mircea_popescu: "women may not hold money" doesn't mean something about women. it means something about money, ie, capital is to be deployed in business not in the household.
mircea_popescu: the fact that you can't find a decent cofee house at north pole does not signify you should give up the cappuccino habit.
danielpbarron: speaking of which I've resolved to stop eating at a local cafe/brunch place because half the time they can't be arsed to use the espresso machine, sometimes claiming that it's 'broken'
danielpbarron: i think i'm the only one that even orders cappuccinos there; everyone else is content to drink the pre-made 'coffee' from those self-serve pump stations
phf: asciilifeform: there are some nice whole house rentals next to walter reed research institute in silver spring. they converted "national park seminary" to condos, can find whole house for 1,6k or so
phf: they have standalones
phf: man, i go there for massage, and it makes me heart ache, all those beautiful ruins, "modernized"
phf: 1,6k is for a standalone, i'm sure rowhouses are cheaper. they have a few standalones for sale, dc- "cheap" 600k or so
phf: i was trying to buy one of the larger buildings to renovate for company's office, they wouldn't sell. i'm sure they can make bank on condos
jurov: "Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Takes $1 Billion Position in Apple" lol the end is nigh!
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: there's nothing wrong with a well-used airpot in theory, but it does require dumping the remains every ~10 minutes for a fresh pot. yes, this means that low-volume shops cannot serve good coffee from an airpot, but since when has that stopped anyone.
danielpbarron: idk i'm kinda of the opinion that if i'm gonna have coffee at a place, it should be served into a ceramic mug by a waitress and come with free refills
ben_vulpes: most places with waitresses, ceramic mugs and delivery use an air pot anyways
ben_vulpes: that is *never* refreshed, only more swill poured atop
phf: asciilifeform: hmm, 1,6 quote is from my massage therapist, who's got two places for rent in that block
phf: generally i suspect you'll have better luck with renting from owners, rather than mgmt companies, since later can allow for dead souls
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> straight bezzle play. << the world over, this.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes, this means that low-volume shops cannot serve good coffee from an airpot <<< girl had one of those filter drip things all her life. the unit she had broke, over weekend, and i taught girl to make turkish boiled coffee. then today "did you want to replace your drip thing ?" "umm... nah".
mircea_popescu: jurov holy shit, yahoo, the mother of all worthless "internet companies". at least activesoft has or maybe had some competent garbagemongers.
mircea_popescu: i subscribe to "the end is nigh" theory, the usg dept of berkshire convened the rich kids for a visit over with obama and they all agreed to donate moar money to the nazi party.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you recall that ridiculous piece ? somehow nobody noticed it.
mircea_popescu: something about the old chap being too "out of touch" for "day to day" decisionmaking
mircea_popescu: and incidentally bobbeck sounds like exactly the right word for it.
mircea_popescu: to bobbeck, to attach a subservient aparatchick to the sort of entreprise lords might have either heard of or outright respect, so as to puppet it along the nazi cause.
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, amazon has buried the ingestion point for ssh pubkeys in a truly obscure corner of their systems
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if they give you keypair they can sign imaginary connection sessions from you. if not, not.
ben_vulpes: it's trivially swapped out once in the machine
mircea_popescu: that if i don't say "obama is a whore's dog" over ssh, aws can't produce a correctly signed token for "mp said obama is a whore's dog" over ssh.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 15:12 mircea_popescu: we had this in the log in detail.
a111: Logged on 2015-12-07 23:34 mircea_popescu: and if you want actual numbers, i just got a coupla girlies an apt. the sale value would have been i guess 160-170k or so. the monthly rent is 750. the first month, the washing machine went, and the owner replaced it. the next month, ac went (brother was that an incredible pos job wow), owner replaced it. so far owner's been making 0 from his property.
mircea_popescu: there's also a large one discussing with some guy his idea of bootstrapping on a shoestring a landlord governing body, because he's a 20yo brogrammer and that's how governance works in his mind.
a111: Logged on 2015-10-18 14:25 mircea_popescu: so let me get this straight, you want to give people too poor to litigate, too stupid / desocialized to talk to the landlord and too scared to act the option "you can either pay 100 to the landlord as deposit or 300 to me and unlike the landlord I PROMISE to give it back (maybe), except im not anywhere near you and you can't burn my house down" ?
mircea_popescu: whole day was ~dedicated to hashing out that steaming pile of 20yo lulzideas.
mircea_popescu: seriously, wtf slum lord is that, doesn't rape the girls and whip the boys ?!
mircea_popescu: myeah. "longer life expectancy" turns out to be a horrible idea.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one place i rented here contained ~6 local derps at the time ; now inhabited by two.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> the mold in the toilet is there to stay, until the place is bulldozed. << nah, copper sulphate will wipe it.
mircea_popescu: even that, yes. this is a whole profession, buying property managed into the dirt by idiots and making it shine. pays pretty well, too, most hands-on types end up doing that.
mircea_popescu: but, as with all things, nobody's going to bother putting in the effort for a shitty apt.
mircea_popescu: too many detached family houses on two levels waiting for the treatment.
mircea_popescu: there's stories in the us proletcult folklore about the regime deciding to socially integrate gypsies, ending up with indoor fireplace fed from what used to be the parquet...
☟︎ mircea_popescu: apparently this is a permanent item, usg-born orcs forcibly integrated by usg, revert to the tribal arrangements that are adequate to their needs and capacities.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but nobody does it for rentals that will be promptly shat in again by the usual clientele << rent control ruins real estate huh.
mircea_popescu: actually most of the stuff ustartds do these days is insufferable. used to be that if you wanted proper floor spacing and decent sized fridges you had to go to the us. which is how people ended up in california.
mircea_popescu: but these days... wtf is with the paper walls, and the attendant fire sprinklers and fire drills and whatnot ? you couldn't pay me to live in a place with firesprinklers.
mircea_popescu: also wtf is with the lulzvoltage ; and with the poorly provisioned water and often inexitent gas pipes. etc.
mircea_popescu: seriously, "water saving shower" ?! because why, i'm in palenque ?
mircea_popescu: bad lightbulbs ; bad flooring, bad carpeting bad walls bad you name it.
mircea_popescu: electric stoves are ok ; but they better be gas-stove standard, not a lulzy teapot warmer + microwave.
mircea_popescu: the insanity of having fixed-above-head showerhead and no bidets makes me fucking wonder how exactly do ustards eat cunt.
mircea_popescu: let's talk of something else. the richest korea makes my stomach turn.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 14:43 mircea_popescu: and the (otherwise spurious) concept of "a chan" reduces to "a list of specified broadcast recipients".
mircea_popescu: gossip irl works exactly the same way, if you just talk to the woman your parents picked and your cousins, it's suicideware.
mircea_popescu: if however you pick the whores you entertain carefully, it's empowering to a degree uknown by nazi derps.
mircea_popescu: in fact, their derpy "secret services" universally aspire (and universally fail) to be exactly this.
phf: how do you deal with situation of in-wot A talking to out-wot B?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. you can not possibly hear the talk to and from outsiders. you just discard all that.
mircea_popescu: no, just, you filter it out. if you want to hear what your friend A says to B, must make B your friend.
mircea_popescu: obviously, nothing prevents you from running firehose mode. but , just like wireshark makes no guarantee as to the literary or poetic merits of random wire captures,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no such thing as "to X Y", gossipd being a pairwise protocol.
mircea_popescu: so if you want to say "hi" to 5 people, you say hi 5 times to one at a time.
mircea_popescu: if you say it in #trilema which is an alias for (me you and phf) then you said it 3x : once to each
mircea_popescu: if you said it in pm to me... then you say it once, to me.
mircea_popescu: and if i'm also friends with phf, phf will report to me having heard you say "hi".
mircea_popescu: but if i'm not, i'll never know. the situation where i'm friends to you, and you say hi to me in a channel of 10`000 people i don't know ; and the situation where i'm friends with you and you say hi to me in a pm are identical.
mircea_popescu: and it's how things work irl, also. that they don't work that way online is because online is fucktarded beyond conception.
mircea_popescu: group of girlies walking down the street, you see one you like, and talk to her. the other idiots you don't care about giggle or w/e. so ?
mircea_popescu: i'm just saying, the way communication works irl is precisely like contemplated gossipd scheme, and exactly NOT like bbs/irc/webetc.
mircea_popescu: those are modelled after stuff like academic communication ; which pointedly is not speech
mircea_popescu: (except englishtards, being idiots as awlays, use "speech" to denote precisely not-speech, ie writ. precisely because they used writ for some legalese arcana five century prior. but we digress.)
mircea_popescu: (but since we digressed - and this ineptitude leads them into all sorts of lulz. for instance, SPEECH was protected by constitution. as in, the activity of gossipd. not WRIT, such as an imaginary right to publish slander. etc.)
BingoBoingo: <phf> 1,6k is for a standalone, i'm sure rowhouses are cheaper. they have a few standalones for sale, dc- "cheap" 600k or so << lol, divide by 3 or 4 for cheap here
BingoBoingo: About 36 hours now, previously a couple months.
ben_vulpes: what is this website that counts nodes
ben_vulpes: i'm supposed to give a shit about 21.co?
ben_vulpes: haven't we had this thread before, of that the network is not paricularly enumerable, and with the malleability of version strings that counting them is somewhat less than pointless?
☟︎ trinque: deedbot.org isn't on there, was
trinque: though as I check its log, there is a great deal of "socket no message in first 60 seconds"
trinque: it is however keeping up with the blockchain, so perhaps I've got say... a curated connection to the network :p
trinque: or perhaps their scanner issues heathen commands
a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 20:46 ben_vulpes: haven't we had this thread before, of that the network is not paricularly enumerable, and with the malleability of version strings that counting them is somewhat less than pointless?
ben_vulpes: dun think mine ooms terrifically often. not in my personal memory at least.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform funny, of the 5, two are kind-of behind also
mircea_popescu: well, i have no idea why my nodes are offline. i also have not the time/patience to check up on them daily like they were carrying my child or some shit.
mircea_popescu: so i'm guessing the restarter failed in some speshul manner.
mircea_popescu: o ffs. neither the 216. nor the 173. that this node's startline wants it to addnode actually exist in that list.
mircea_popescu: so what's the officialdom now, 46.166 54.187 an' what, 72.83 ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, whatever site is only going to know about those nodes that even talk to it.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 21:08 asciilifeform: the quasi-mythical 'seeeekrit evidence' nodes which connect directly to mines, etc. - not.
mircea_popescu: see alf, tmsr is a complaint-driven entity. bitch and thou shalt receive