jurov: in same vein as isis gpg pubkey
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3626 @ 0.00055227 = 2.0025 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 28-01-2016 21:26:18; PeterL: most memory management tricks seem to be directed at retaining what you want, I have never seen anybody talk about throwing out useless stuff. I don't know if anybody has researched whether there is a hard limit to total storage space?
mircea_popescu: but anyway. there has to be a limit, for quantum reasons.
assbot: Logged on 28-01-2016 22:46:24; Linus_: Did you hear about the strategy to subsidize miners to stay on 1MB blocks?
assbot: Logged on 28-01-2016 23:08:48; jurov: some prior art claims were discussed but don't remember nor can't find this exact paper in logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00054945 = 1.8681 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00055286 = 14.9825 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00055515 = 12.7129 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: ok stand-by, going to update the mirror.
mod6: ok all set -- looking good.
mod6: you think it'll be useful at all before we release?
mod6: does any of it touch any of trb's files?
mod6: (so far, i didn't see any that did)
mod6: im thinking that i'm gonna tag the release, and publish the release patch soon. just hoping that if any of it touches trb, that it'll be post-release patch so there are no conflicts.
mod6: ok you should probably wait to run vdiff against the changes until i've got the release patch out then, so you can start from there.
mod6: does that make sense?
mod6: ok good deal. feel free to fire off whatever you like at the ML, just be aware that we may have to re-process the vpatches post-release. that's all. salud.
mod6: im about to publish V [v99996] tonight.
mod6: well, hoping to anyway.
mod6: it'll contain the fix from yesterday about the strictness of one of my regex's when matching up seals to vpatches; the change to look for the .wot dir in the current working directory by default (as well as .seals); and lastly has the post-press hash checker function also.
mod6: all automated tests should pass now that we have your new PVS seal in the mirror ; was failing lastnight because V thought it was 'WILD', and it expected it to be signed by you.
mod6: which is a good thing that the test picked it up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00055946 = 13.8187 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <mod6> you think it'll be useful at all before we release? << nah, fgorget it. consider the release frozen like a week or two ago.
mod6: in your opinion, should the release include any of the three (from recent): PVS, Malleus, or High/Low-S ?
mircea_popescu: i thought you pretty much had all three lined up for it, no ?
mod6: i need to test PVS a bit more actually tho.
mod6: i haven't even touched it yet.
mod6: but yah, if all final tests work that include those patches, we're frozen and headed for a release.
mod6: ok all automated tests for V passed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00055946 = 6.8254 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15450 @ 0.00055949 = 8.6441 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31568 @ 0.00055967 = 17.6677 BTC [+] {3}
mod6: asciilifeform: oh sorry, yeah, about to upload the stuff to the site & then send the emails.
mod6: feel free to send what you like as far as tinyscheme.
mod6: i've got a release vpatch up my sleeve, but no email ready for that or anything. that's coming within a number of days I suspect. but probably after the 1st.
mod6: sure thing, sounds good.
mod6: nice asciilifeform!
mod6: heheh "Now Taste The Meat."
mod6: i'll give it a go as soon as I get the soba out and test the PVS.
BingoBoingo: Fucking Mizzou's still going more Oberlin than actual Oberlin
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Honestly it looks like they should get bonus points for emulating "grown up" candidates so well
ben_vulpes: nifty many-handed work, asciilifeform.
assbot: Getaway driver fatally shot by victim during hoverboard robbery in St. Louis; robber charged : News ... (
http://bit.ly/1NEwEfv )
assbot: Logged on 24-08-2014 21:40:36; *: asciilifeform had a dream many years ago that his grandfather took an ancient grinding wheel from workshop, turned it upside-down, and taught him to ride it. and now people actually do something quite like this.
ben_vulpes: still actually slaving away fixing containerization horseshit
ben_vulpes: so today i open my bezzleputer, and discover a SECOND DOCK
ben_vulpes: consisting SOLELY of a GOOGLE CHROME icon
ben_vulpes: i click this chrome icon out of a morbid fascination
ben_vulpes: and lo a url i was just looking at in chrome on the phone opens in chrome on the browser
ben_vulpes: "it's to ease context-switching" devs in the room witnessing my astonishment attempt to tell me
ben_vulpes: also restarting the computer fixed "Photos"
ben_vulpes: oh and xcode won't build our flagship project on my computer for some completely inscrutable reason
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00055958 = 6.4631 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48278 @ 0.00055836 = 26.9565 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: the WHOLE MOTHERFUCKING WORLD is conspiring to rip the rug out from otherwise entirely stable software
ben_vulpes: ugh mircea_popescu's line about software only working at a point in time is so entirely fucking timely
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14322 @ 0.00055878 = 8.0028 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14578 @ 0.00055878 = 8.1459 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00055269 = 11.4407 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: are these the only two implemented thus far?
mod6: scheme_define(sc, sc->global_env, mk_symbol(sc, "btc-get-best-height" ), mk_foreign_func(sc, btc_get_best_height));
mod6: scheme_define(sc, sc->global_env, mk_symbol(sc, "btc-shutdown" ), mk_foreign_func(sc, btc_shutdown));
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00055644 = 6.2043 BTC [+]
mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
☟︎☟︎☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00055574 = 6.1965 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Prospect of rpc-snip makes me miss web phuctor a bit less
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 111581 @ 0.00055164 = 61.5525 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31450 @ 0.0005589 = 17.5774 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00055959 = 5.8197 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00055334 = 4.4267 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00054993 = 4.1245 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: wow, pretty sure they'd have gotten away if they just ran over the fed that jumped infront of the truck at the last second
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13950 @ 0.00055959 = 7.8063 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: look closer, danielpbarron, watch like three more times
ben_vulpes: unless they shot him before 9:30 his hands are at his waist
ben_vulpes: libruls are gonna say "he was endangering a good honest policeman!"
ben_vulpes: repubtards are gonna say "los federales gunned down a confused old man stumbling around in the snow!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00054893 = 13.1743 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: this'd probably be best delivered as 2 vpatches: one where you rearrange the deck chairs in the log messages, and another where you muntz out the rotator
ben_vulpes: that is a lot of delta to review for i don't precisely know what value
ben_vulpes: and for what it's worth i actually like seeing the function names in the logs. i know i could just grep for the log messages, but it's another way to get familiar with the codebase.
ben_vulpes: one develops a sense for what happens where in the codebase watching logs.
polarbeard: it truly is, as what value it has, it's just a step into better debugging capabilities, for this patch I've not added new log lines on purpose but I plan doing it for the next
polarbeard: nothing, but gdb is for debugging the present state
ben_vulpes: what you want to reconstruct full state at any point in time?
ben_vulpes: the problem with a patch of this size is that my face wearies of reading myriad log lines changed for seemingly aesthetic reasons, and i fear that even a close read will miss an underhanded c contestant.
polarbeard: I just felt it was fair to anounce its existence
ben_vulpes: hell, submit it to the ml for posterity, i believe you have the wot rating for that.
ben_vulpes: "this 2.6kloc patch rewrites every log line in the reference implementation, in support of further work i'm doing on" etc etc
☟︎ polarbeard: somebody has to review it anyway, so I'll wait for any interest
polarbeard: if not that's fine, I built it for me, the categorization was a nice idea from mp, though
ben_vulpes: he also wanted to tabbify the whole thing
ben_vulpes: definitely split the actual muntzing out into its own patch instead of complecting it with the rest of the work. i might be able to read and meditate on that patch.
☟︎ polarbeard: you want to keep it? most people said it never gets activated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46520 @ 0.00054876 = 25.5283 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: removing dead code is good, far better than rewriting the log lines. just split it out so that it can be reviewed seperately from the two thousand five hundred and ninety odd other lines of that patch.
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: do i still fail to make myself clear?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00054871 = 13.5531 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32001 @ 0.00054973 = 17.5919 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.00054534 = 13.8516 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12864 @ 0.00054937 = 7.0671 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30093 @ 0.00054534 = 16.4109 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00055346 = 16.7698 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 08:13:49; ben_vulpes: definitely split the actual muntzing out into its own patch instead of complecting it with the rest of the work. i might be able to read and meditate on that patch.
punkman: so the log lines are now prefixed with two types of things: ERR INF WAR and MEM ADR BLK NET WAL. If you are gonna do this it'd be nice to have the usual log levels on all lines (error,warning, debug, info) , so user can choose how much verbosity he needs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00054685 = 9.9527 BTC [-] {3}
polarbeard: punkman: I wanted to categorize the information before prioritizing but it makes sense, in fact some server software (mongodb for instance) does this with double prefixes using this format: <timestamp> <priority> <category> <message>
punkman: polarbeard: but some lines have <priority> and some lines have <category>
polarbeard: yes, you're right, I'll add priority and category in each line, thanks for the observation
punkman: that said, I'm not sure any trb users will actually want to filter on <priority>
polarbeard: me neither, but for the amount of data it needs to be introduced it won't hurt
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 01:15:23; asciilifeform: or hm, does cpp string class allocate a fresh turd when returning ?
punkman: (by filter I meant "don't save these lines", but I guess still useful when you are grepping or scanning with your eyes)
punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it?
☟︎☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21082 @ 0.00055384 = 11.6761 BTC [+]
jurov: mod6: is the V ..er.. V-ified?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00055428 = 10.4759 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: polarbeard: i've updated ml, you can now post to btc-dev
polarbeard: thanks, I'll wait a bit for reviews I think
jurov: you will get more attention there than in the log, and you can always post an update
polarbeard: I appreciate the suggestion, I'll just finish ensuring each line has priority and category and I'll submit then
jurov: btw, while i'm on it: mod6, does V have any notion of "updates" and "reground" patches?
☟︎ jurov: I know that i should manage the repository myself, but imo a version field would be good to have so that I can easily spot if someone posts revised version of the same patch.
☟︎ jurov: perhaps you're new and full of ideas to improve bitcoin?
Uglux: I'm not new but full of ideas ;)
jurov: care to share and watch them burn?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00054657 = 7.57 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00054597 = 13.5947 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28315 @ 0.00055289 = 15.6551 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6060 @ 0.00055472 = 3.3616 BTC [+]
polarbeard: ftr, I've updated the gist, will send the patch to the ml later
punkman: jurov, how would version field work?
punkman: btw, does the turdatron use v.pl?
jurov: it does not use v yet
jurov: and the version field as just advisory indication which is the more recent patch
jurov: say i post mempool_frobs.vpatch
jurov: and upon feedback i redo it, should i just repost with same name?
jurov: wouldn't that cause confusion when other files stay the same?
punkman: I think it'd be best to name the 2nd patch mempool_frobsv2.vpatch or something like that
jurov: then it will sort *after* mempool_frobs
punkman: they'd conflict, can't be in same toposorted list
jurov: so v will complain and user will have to resolve it by hand
polarbeard: gpg will tell you when it was signed, you can use that to discard old patches
punkman: vit does have interactive deconflict mode
jurov: not anything serious, just throwing some ideas.. looks like this needs to be revisited only when I encounter the situation actually :D
punkman: ideally turdatron would press all the possible HEADs and let us see them in lxr
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12312 @ 0.00054544 = 6.7155 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16188 @ 0.00054416 = 8.8089 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20840 @ 0.00055218 = 11.5074 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> repubtards are gonna say "los federales gunned down a confused old man stumbling around in the snow!" << Old might have been the serious problem. Perhaps these men started too late to get the actual RUF sorta militia mindset. Turns out Kony was right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26860 @ 0.00055956 = 15.0298 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.0005596 = 13.934 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11410 @ 0.00055717 = 6.3573 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00054372 = 17.399 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00055131 = 4.3829 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
BingoBoingo: But the RPC snip possibility is a beautiful side effect
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 07:42:24; polarbeard: I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch:
https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml
assbot: Logged on 14-07-2015 19:24:25; ascii_field: 'why not start small, he said, offering the yoga n00b a single nail'
BingoBoingo: Prolly n00b raised in the school of "EVERYTHING AT ONCE"
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 08:08:31; ben_vulpes: "this 2.6kloc patch rewrites every log line in the reference implementation, in support of further work i'm doing on" etc etc
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:02:07; punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:27:57; jurov: btw, while i'm on it: mod6, does V have any notion of "updates" and "reground" patches?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27053 @ 0.00055964 = 15.1399 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12511 @ 0.0005565 = 6.9624 BTC [-] {2}
mats: 'misra c' is a fun read
mats: of the 'underhanded programming guide' variety
BingoBoingo: So, I'm thinking about returning to linux... maybe. Any idea if RadeonSI drivers would work on a musl kernel?
BingoBoingo: Google is unrevealing on this matter because fucking phoronix spam clogs these keywords
gribble: Bitstamp BTCJPY last: 46124.0706, vol: 11640.70373598 | BTC-E BTCJPY last: 46257.3259985, vol: 7959.8477 | CampBX BTCJPY last: 45469.3125, vol: 5.06 | BTCChina BTCJPY last: 46629.489, vol: 74106.70140000 | Kraken BTCJPY last: 46000.0, vol: 72.27468694 | Bitcoin-Central BTCJPY last: 46462.7425, vol: 114.3093928 | Volume-weighted last average: 46534.5335291
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 379.73, vol: 11582.44765331 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 381.1, vol: 7949.34921 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 380.09, vol: 54857.02272742 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 375.0, vol: 5.06 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 384.820605, vol: 74078.79440000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 379.74001, vol: 414.16996823 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 383.1462, vol: 114.3093928 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
mats: i just noticed pcengines 'apu2c4' will have ecc support
BingoBoingo: mats: AMD tends to have ECC as an available option in all of their chips except the consumer stuff, and even then it usually isn't the chip where ECC is precluded.
BingoBoingo: In other news 'Quantrill' is now synced up to the beginning of 2014.
shinohai: Everyone has spiffy node names but I. I just call mine that thing in the corner.
PeterL: ^ I was just about to say the same thing!
punkman: mats, it says ECC "not working" though now. also saw a supermicro G series board that only has non-ECC
PeterL: my node is syncing, seemed to be getting tons of junk. I restarted it, using -addnode with the nodes from the wiki, seems to be going good again.
☟︎ PeterL: Is there a way while it is running to tell it to switch back to the nodes you started it with?
shinohai: A poor toomlin got his feelings hurt
PeterL: are chinese miners some sort of unit that all must act together?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Even through my lens which is competely illiterate when it comes to the Chinese language, the miners seem to be having very spirited conversations.
PeterL: from the vantage point of the poor, "rich people" are also a unit which acts in a concerted manner
BingoBoingo: And for the bunny rabbit everything that moves and is not a fellow rabbit is acting in a concerted manner and an immanent threat.
BingoBoingo: F2Pool/Discus Fish is probably my favorite Chinese pool.
davout: BingoBoingo: "Qntra is the only Bitcoin news outlet committed to bringing Bitcoin news to Africa." <<< brilliant!
trinque: there is a kiss of death for btcd which halts it in its tracks, does not crash.
☟︎ trinque: I have seen this maybe 10 times by now
fluffypony: have you tried maybe not kissing the computer?
fluffypony: for anyone reading the logs I apologise for not providing a trigger warning
BingoBoingo: And on that qntra page there's a bit more than a hundred KB of text on that page which gets compressed for transit
thestringpuller: GMaxwell is ranting up reddit repeating the Visa is not Comparable with Bitcoin thing.
thestringpuller: I don't even know if I should bother reading r/btc. kills brain cells like drugs.
PeterL: Visa is not comparable with visa, doesn't everybody already know that?
PeterL: ack, visa is not comparable with bitcoin
thestringpuller: Nope. The people focused on traditional payment processing believe Bitcoin should scale to visa levels cuz "Satoshi said so"
thestringpuller: the problem here is I doubt satoshi had any idea how visa and traditional payment systems scaled in comparison to bitcoin.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22977 @ 0.00055926 = 12.8501 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Aha, just don't heat the mouse over 500 degree farenheit
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
ascii_butugychag: which does not allow file rename operation except as a megatonne of add/subtract-lines
ascii_butugychag: and so makes it quite impossible to properly have tinyscheme-genesis FULLY MACHINE-READABLY flow into shiva genesis
ascii_butugychag: (as my instructions note, it is necessary to rename a directory after pressing tinyscheme-genesis to end up with the shiva subdir in shiva patch)
ascii_butugychag: but i will NOT tolerate a megatonne of rubbish in my vpatch just to rename a dir.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: shiva is unabashedly a beachhead to eventually have the whole thing enlisped.
ascii_butugychag: as you probably know, my original interest in 0.5.3* was ~characterization~
ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: they gave me this surprisingly spiffy apple mouse-touchsensor-chimera, but it has gigantic rails in contact with the table, and tremendous static friction. but it turns out that teflon will make it slide aaah so nicely along, like hockey puck..
ascii_butugychag: now i am fighting a compulsion to stick that tape to the bottom of every single object on my desk
ascii_butugychag: mats: so i wanted to go and read misra c, turns out it is payware ?
ascii_butugychag: (quite worthless, i must note, without the aftermarker driver that lets you program new patterns in. need this in order even to have middle-click..)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35867 @ 0.0005586 = 20.0353 BTC [-] {4}
PeterL: does it come with "right click", or do you have to add that?
mats: ascii_butugychag: there is warez
mod6: All: Stand-by I've made some updates to the script referenced in the wiki as to drop in the latest version of V (with the latest 3 patches in the mirror) - im gonna test it, then post it here. It'd be good to have some of you test it too.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 04:27:23; ben_vulpes: arcane linker errors coming from the "pods"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15950 @ 0.00055964 = 8.9263 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 06:06:33; mod6: "Eventually we can migrate the whole RPC orchestra to this." << seems reasonable.
BingoBoingo: lol, the Tor 'Tails' distro switched to systemd now
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 07:18:40; danielpbarron: guy died basically saving the life of the fed
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo this significantly changes the bozo bit on "the tor project" from "don't install that shit" to "don't install that shit".
mod6: One notable change to the build script linked on the wiki: Since we're pressing out V in a directory that gets created by the script, there is no way to have a .wot inside this dir that it can find -- the script ~must~ reference a .wot directory somewhere outside of the entire rotor build area.
mod6: so I'm going to have the script reference ~/.wot -- this seems like a resonable place to put it -- again, V will not expect it to be there, so an additional param is placed in the V command as such:
mod6: ./v.pl p verbose TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch wd ~/.wot
mircea_popescu: the script ~must~ reference a .wot directory somewhere outside of the entire rotor build area. <<< wait wut ?!
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: its "the tor project" they can't fit all of that into a single bozobit. Requires a whole base58 encoded xml bozo turd.
mod6: mircea_popescu: it has to be, there is no way that we can create and populate a .wot directory inside of a directory that is created by the script
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you can have whatever weird lisp "1" you wish for as long as it evaluates to 1 lol
mod6: .wot must be created by hand, and populated by hand.
mircea_popescu: but you're telling me script creating directory $d can't create directory $d."/.wot" ?!
mod6: make note that V does not /expect/ or /default/ to a ~/.wot dir, it just so happens in this case, that it needs to be somewhere accessable outside of the rotor build path
mircea_popescu: or however you denote string addition in that language
mod6: I can do that just fine yes, but i don't think we should populate the .wot directory via script.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35665 @ 0.00055647 = 19.8465 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: but it should still be a subdir of the working space rather than a fixed dir somewhere
mod6: so it should be populated by hand, outside of the build path, and referenced only in the script for access.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, you might wish to run v with diff wotsets.
mod6: I can not reconcile this.
mircea_popescu: (actually half the reason to even have v is to run it with diff wotsets)
mod6: Chicken/Egg problem with that script then.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: I just got one of those mice from the vending machine. (We have vending machines at work for accessories. Slowly replacing IT with robots.)
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 07:42:24; polarbeard: I've timestamped and categorized trb log lines, as well as improved the messages and removed (seeming never activated) destructive log rotation, here is the signed patch:
https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/961aa315c69b89d2e613 in case somebody with a decent reputation wants to review it so I can submit it to the ml
mod6: ok so lets talk this through a bit.
mod6: so the script as it currently exists, creates these directories:
mod6: mkdir -p rotor/toolchain
mod6: mkdir -p rotor/TEST2
mod6: then it moves into these directories to continue all of the gyrations that need to happen to build everything
ascii_butugychag: <+mircea_popescu> for one thing, you might wish to run v with diff wotsets. << YES! ~somebody~ GETs it
mod6: ok. so if we create a .wot in /.../rotor/ (so, rotor/.wot), then it can not be populated by hand...
mod6: the only actual alternative here is to create .wot adjacent to rotor directory, along with the V source
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> why can't it be populated by hand ? << how can you populate by hand while the script is running?
mircea_popescu: the way i see this is, script tries " mkdir -p rotor/.wot " , if it succeeds it says "wot dir created, populate and re-run please" ; if it fails it proceeds with build.
mod6: eh. bad things tend to happen when this script is run more than once.
mod6: this was never really meant to be "the thing" just was initially meant for testing. somehow became "the way"
mod6: so continuing with my thought here..
mod6: if we have V source and .wot adjacent to rotor dir, then we could press like the following:
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag why not ? and stop interrupting the guy!
mod6: ./v.pl p verbose rotor/TEST2 asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum.vpatch
mod6: so I think that could work actually.
mod6: <+ascii_butugychag> i still don't get why a vtron should use the net at all << I'm open to well defined explicit ideas here.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the only concern with "Separate but equal .wot dir root" is that you will end up in a fucking mess of /try1/.wot /tryn/.wot and mix and match them with actual builds takingpart in another place and sooner or later you'll cross them up, or your eyes will, and the net result will be that you run a different security protocol than you intended, on occasion,
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57150 @ 0.00055965 = 31.984 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: so how about the script expects to see .wot in a relative path to the project, and if it doesn't it aborts with an error.
mircea_popescu: put the test sufficiently high up in the program flow you won't have bad things happen.
mod6: that would be fine, but then we're in the situation where every single time that someone runs it for the first time, the script will fail with an error.
mod6: and that is not a one-button-push solution as you asked for.
mircea_popescu: and that error should read "please put .wot sigs in /blabla/derpherp/.wot"
ascii_butugychag: i almost always find myself with fuck knows what at relative-path-depth-n
ascii_butugychag: this was a common complaint about my rotor system also, recall
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag well looky, the problem there was that the dir tree wasn't curated well.
mircea_popescu: mod6 somehow in my contorted worldview what i just described does count as "push button"
ascii_butugychag: i broke my head on this for a while, and settled on '~/.wot by default, user-specified wot whenever you want' when i did vtron.
mircea_popescu: chiefly because I can aforehand know where i need to put the .wot and stick it in there.
ascii_butugychag: and if you don't do variant wots, it can live there permanently.
ascii_butugychag: if you use variants - specify the variant each time, like the laws of man and god demand.
mod6: ok so lets keep in mind that v99996 of V will only look for .wot in the current working directory unless told to look elsewhere for it explicitly.
mircea_popescu: did the entire week long circuitous path start with me bitching / trying to improve on it ?
mod6: and I think this is what we want. So we can stick with that, and probably not break anything -- i'll just move V & .wot outside of the rotor dir.
mircea_popescu: i'm quickly building a reputation for a wrecker of trb aren't i !
ascii_butugychag: having relative wots inevitably leads to keeping 10,001 copies of wot
mod6: that's probably more acceptable than the following: ~/.wot by default (in the script) or stopping the script mid-processing to require human action (action should be taken prior to execution)
mircea_popescu: no dawg, im not done wioth the logs. then reading the #eulora logs which by now are even longer.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 alrighty, seems it's teh consensus here. << ok lemme put this together, and will post in here for you guys to review, and people to test.
mircea_popescu: hey mod6 how would you rate working with b-a vs working with job people ? are we just as enervating ye t?
mircea_popescu: if anyone recalls that joke about how mathematician is the only man who tells mistress he's with wife, tells wife he's with mistress, goes to woods with pen and paper to unwind...
mircea_popescu: me types three letters in editor, hits tabs a few times, is very confused when the required fill-in doesn't occur.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is emacs going to fill in with irc names.
ascii_butugychag: you can specify a tag file it will fill from when tab(or your favourite other key)-completing.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> hey mod6 how would you rate working with b-a vs working with job people ? are we just as enervating ye t? << this beats anything else I've ever encountered by a wide margin.
mod6: b-a has honest and knowledgeable people who care about the innerworkings of the technology, on a low-level, as well as on a meta level.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you know automation of it is actually an unsolvable problem, do you ?
mod6: I wouldn't trade what we have here for anything. If I could work it out, this is all I would do every day.
mod6: Things are moving really fast here sometimes, and that can be hard to keep up with, but it's part of the deal.
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
ascii_butugychag: (fully automating just about anything is an invitation for meltdown)
mircea_popescu: wanna bet you spent more time fucking around with the auto thereof than it saved you ?
mircea_popescu: actually that's the first time someone brought a cogent, well thought out objection to the classic "programmers wanna play and so ruin productivity spending moe time on tools than the tools save" thing
☟︎ mod6: ok the new script, having V outside of the rotor dir seems to be building just fine so far... will update again when its complete, or if fails.
ascii_butugychag: yes, it could take a whole hour to set up whatever, and i might die bfore it saves me a whole hour
ascii_butugychag: BUT those 5 sec the old crud cost me every 15 min. were ~flow-destroying~.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: you should tell this to the leadership here who wants to automate all things.
mod6: ascii_butugychag much appreciates the labours of mod6 << alf, you've put in a lot of effort too, and we all appreciate that very much.
mod6: And honestly, I really look forward to working on these projects every day, and with all of you. :]
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: notice how ~some~ programmers (india!) l00000ve repetitive crudwork. they produce glorious unrolled 10,0001-iteration loops, etc.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: d00d I have to upgrade to el capitan to scroll on the mouse?!?!?
ascii_butugychag: a non-lazy programmer is about as useful as a sedentary sprinter
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: ahahahaha the one that won't suspend-mode, ah
mod6: We've come a very long way, and we've still got some road ahead (we all know), but we can't have a republic with out the sovereigns participants who wish to make it.
mod6: s/sovereigns/sovereign/
mod6: tl;dr we need all of you! you are what make the republic possible!
mod6: I may have had too much coffee...
mod6: That pie looked nice tho!
thestringpuller: and coworkers make fun of me for using terminals and lightweight tools cause they "ain't pretty" the actual fuck. this is exactly why being a web developer is like slow torture.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:02:07; punkman: so shiva patch wholly includes the tinyscheme genesis instead of referencing it?
mod6: anyway, speaking of great things (tm), shiva really was awesome to see working lastnight. very impressive stuff. i just gotta learn scheme now hahah.
mod6: back to CompSci 101!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9850 @ 0.00055969 = 5.5129 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: i'd rather stop people in the street and ask them to make my women babies than reference whatever package maintained by nowot rando.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0005597 = 1.7351 BTC [+]
ascii_butugychag: (there was ~never~ referencing in my tinyscheme thing! it began with a vtronically nailed-down copy of known vintage from my own hdd, and proceeds from there.)
punkman: it was like having two tinyscheme genesises
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 10:29:19; jurov: I know that i should manage the repository myself, but imo a version field would be good to have so that I can easily spot if someone posts revised version of the same patch.
mod6: ascii_butugychag: i'll try to give your new patches a shot tonight.
ascii_butugychag: punkman: now there is 1, from it flows contiguously into the shivatron
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag mod6 if you wish to consider a general problem : what is the ~correct~ thing to do for vtron when it encounters two validly signed patches doing the same thing ?
punkman: mod6, does perl have some good diff library so we could maybe implement sane renaming/deletions?
mod6: punkman: good question, not sure at all. can try to take a peek once we get past the 1st. i've got stuff stacked to the celing right now
ascii_butugychag: 'press to' is how we specify which patches get applied to begin with
mod6 ponders this question for a minute.
punkman: you can't apply two patches that modify the same thing, at least in newer v.pl that checks hashes
ascii_butugychag: so if i submit frobs-x.vpatch and also-frobs-x.vpatch and they both reference patch frobbed-x-before.vpatch, then i can press to frob-x OR to also-frobs-x or to any other leaf.
mircea_popescu: the reason i question all this is because suddenly a possibility formed in my head, whereby v could have an equivalent of "longest chain". bitcoin does not follow THAT heuristic idly. but it must be said that a) it's a poorly defined heuristic and b) there are reasons.
mircea_popescu: merely inquiring what "longest chan" ACTUALLY MEANS is a major point of actually defining bitcoin\
mircea_popescu: (and we'll likely end up stuck in THIS sort of mud pits a lot more than i nthe "obvious" ones everyone thinks about)
ascii_butugychag: 'longest chain' is the trunk of the tree, where the sap flows.
ascii_butugychag: but i will note that introducing a new patch that is binary-identical to an old one, is an error.
mircea_popescu: approach thematter from the other, practical side, maybe it's easier that way. so i made a patch that did X, then i made a patch that did X'. i consider X' to be > X.
punkman: what if two patches change two files respectively, with the same contents
mircea_popescu: a) the presser might disagree and b) the V doesn't really distinguish
ascii_butugychag: (and, as i explained very early on, cycled are an error, and anyone attempting to introduce a graph cycle deserves a good thrashing)
mircea_popescu: or to put it in different terms : currently the V is equivalent to a version of bitcoin where YOU are responsible for downloading blocks. it WILL verify them and form a chain,
mircea_popescu: (for one thing : if IT could find the right ones, add that to gossipd and we have essentially built passive autonomous system software, ie, the evil ai.)
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 13:27:00; asciilifeform:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388268 << absolutely not, the very notion is a violation of vtronics. NOW on the OTHER HAND - human-powered 'gardening' of the vtree is a perfectly fine thing. notice how mod6 is doing a splendid job of it. BUT conceivably it is also possible for archaeologists to take all of the orphaned crud i ever pasted and come up with a correct vtree
ascii_butugychag points out that he has been thinking about vtronics for a VERY long time.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: well magicprefs is throwin an error (has a triangle with exclamation mark in the top bar)
mircea_popescu: so have i. which is what makes the conicidence interesting.
mod6: i wonder if we couldnt find 'the right ones' with some sort of merkle tree that represents the best chain.
mod6: hehehe. interesting thoughts here today. i need to think on this stuff.
mircea_popescu: now, one obvious solution (wasn't obvious to me at the time what it was a solution to) is to INCLUDE COMMENTS in the patches, like i did with my only signed patch i didn't really intended as part of a final pressing
mircea_popescu: this way the human gardener can review and arbitrate the matter and i (at least hopefully) won't get negrated for it breaking shit.
mircea_popescu: so at the least a hook for human debugging to save us from cold equationism IS provided.
ascii_butugychag: but in point of fact, the v-chain aspect prevents a mistake from catastrophically breaking the world
BingoBoingo: <ascii_butugychag> thestringpuller: sacrifice a goat to satan << It's heretic apple, gotta sacrifice satan to a goat since woz is gone.
mod6: not to worry about your signed genesis tho - i gardened it out. the mirror just has the right one.
ascii_butugychag: i posted probably the most kB of unusable but validly signed crapolade to the ml
mircea_popescu: you do a miserable job of comments, btw. the thing with "only four bit state" has its disadvantages.
ascii_butugychag: if had moar time, would write beautiful illuminated manuscripts, sure.
mod6: as far as comments in the vpatch that are mearly just for archaeological or annotative purposes, i think something could be done here especially when we get our own diff/patch.
punkman: comments work in gnudiff too
ascii_butugychag: mod6: gnudiff is a miserable straightjacket (see earlier monologue re: renaming)
ascii_butugychag: ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation
mod6: yup, eventually this could be a thing though, if we build our own tool
ascii_butugychag: so, e.g., mircea_popescu's retabbing, would be a five-line patch
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
punkman: ascii_butugychag: how would we shorten the retabbing?
mod6: <+ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation << ok sure, this could be a separate feature of V i guess... have to think on this.
punkman: well that'd be a fun rabbit hole
mircea_popescu: <ascii_butugychag> ideally a vtron ought to be able to apply ANY well-defined operation << quite this, tho we might have to get there in steps.
mod6: im just excited to use something called 'sexpr'
mod6: i've gotta take a crash course in scheme very quickly or I won't be able to make heads or tails out of these code submissions. eek!
ascii_butugychag: mod6: fortunately it is the world's simplest, possibly, usable language
adlai: mod6: you're already making lisp jokes, even if you don't get them yet!
adlai: (head . tail) === (car . cdr) etc
mod6: how much does actual scheme differ from common lisp or lisp? can i get a book for lisp (whatever latest megabook alf has posted recently) or do I need a scheme specific book?
adlai: ascii_butugychag: yes, i've been following along quietly. not sure what you mean by "a slime", literally interpreted this is rather meaningless as most of the swank-backends is highly CL specific stuff... i guess you mean a less literal interpretation :)
mod6: thats the one 'eh. thx guise.
ascii_butugychag: adlai: 'a slime' in the sense of plugging an emacs session straight into the interpreter, with 'eval-region', 'eval current sexpr', as well as separate pane with repl, etc.
mircea_popescu: mit used to be a very respectable institution, merely a few decades ago.
mircea_popescu: just like oxford used to matter at some point in its history.
ascii_butugychag: mod6: i mark the demise of mit as the moment when they abolished the sicp course
mircea_popescu: (different field, but same principle - you to this day can't beat literature as read at oxford cca 1880ish, just like you can't really beat it from mit cca 1960. the latter branch is obvious here, but the former'd be just as obvious in a literature-powered ba)
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mod6: ascii_butugychag: interesting they would abolish teaching something they created.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying that the nignog "egyptians" abolishing the pyramids is "something they created"
adlai: mod6: new-MIT decided that s/scheme/python/ would welp more fungible cogs
mod6: mircea_popescu: makes sense.
adlai: this was literally their justification
adlai: maybe they didn't use the words 'fungible' and 'cog', but it was justified as what junior devs need to pass interviews
mod6: aight, i better get me some lunch to soak up this coffee. bbs.
mod6: (build is still going, hopefully will be done soon - will let you all know. salud!)
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 11:31:05; punkman: ideally turdatron would press all the possible HEADs and let us see them in lxr
adlai: ascii_butugychag: might be smoother sailing to start off from comint-mode and work upwards, rather than trying to fit slime onto so different a backend
ascii_butugychag: (sussman and abelson were the creators of scheme, authors of sicp, and taught the course)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @ 0.00056037 = 21.0139 BTC [+] {3}
phf: there are slime backends for schemes, the one for mit/scheme locs 800, but probably includes inspect and support for restarts, which are not needed for poc
phf: i briefly looked at writing a backend for pre-shiva tinyscheme, but it lacks network ports
ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: these lisp tentacles are rather spiffy
adlai sets aside comint-mode, seems dead-end idea
adlai: !up ascii_butugychag
phf: is the approach to spin up thread/socket on trb side? current "telnet" could be extended to swank protocol
phf: adlai: contrib/swank-mit-scheme.scm
ascii_butugychag: current thing is useless for swank though because it spins up a fresh lisp for each connection
adlai: phf: comint (and slime's maximal comfort zone) is for interacting with inferior processes that emacs spawn
adlai: `slime-connect` is a better starting point
adlai: slime's repl and inspector contribs are the most relevant bits
phf: adlai: i have no idea what you're trying to say
adlai: slime is a massive turd, most of which is totally irrelevant for shiva (unless bitcoin-os is planned to serve as yet another example of Greenspun's 10th)
adlai: the subset of "all slime functionality", which do seem to me relevant for shiva, are the repl (history, presentations), the fancy-inspector (designed for CLOS objects, might be neutered+mutated deal with C++), and perhaps sldb
adlai: ascii_butugychag: sure, i'm taking slime-the-~idea~ and trying to "take away everything that doesn't look like an elephant"
adlai: to me, and i imagine to programmers who have done CL work recently, "slime" means a lot of things that you do NOT want
adlai also wanders off to eat
ascii_butugychag: adlai: to me it simply means 'i don't have to leave my editor and FUCK NO I AM NEVER pasting code into a motherfucking shell 10000000 time a day'
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> this will have to be dealt with << doesn't seem terribly hard.
ascii_butugychag: whereas a persistent lisp will need a reconnectable pipe and this will require surgery inside tinyscheme's intestines
ascii_butugychag: also it will need some means of restarting it if the repl is hosed
ascii_butugychag: doable yes. but in the same sense as the thing i just did, was doable.
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41450 @ 0.00056174 = 23.2841 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48214 @ 0.00055527 = 26.7718 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85586 @ 0.00054357 = 46.522 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_butugychag: BingoBoingo: once you understand how scheme's tail call optimization works, you are well on your way to actually grasping the thing
ascii_butugychag: (if you have the patience, watch the films, even, they are interesting in a number of ways incl. historically)
BingoBoingo: ascii_butugychag: I guess I got to now. Shiva represents first serious mega-weaponized divergence of trb from prb
phf: i'm confused about how v presses. i thought it was along the shortest path, but it actually does topological sort and then works with resulting list. so if my topo is a b d c f and i ask to press c, then i get a b d c?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ironically, consider the historical aspect. vc's strategic mistake to NOT submit early and well ensured that they don't have a voice at the one time it'd have mattered. now they're getting locked out of bitcoin, which means computing, and what'll mit do, switch back to scheme because THAT is what junior devs will need to get jobs ?
mircea_popescu: you can't switch back. once you've decided to take the hardwood floor and light your stove with it, you can't then decide to take stove ash and make a floor.
mircea_popescu: and so... nobody could have foreseen all the way to chad.
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mircea_popescu: the shortest path thing is not only premature optimization but also a very mangled sort of heuristic.
mircea_popescu: it DOES work for bitcoin (in blockchain terms it's "longest chain"), but altogether it's not clear WHY it works
mircea_popescu: (or even WHETHER it actually works. hence all the - equally unexamined and inept - prb derpage about "blessed" chains)
mircea_popescu: that came in a few different flavours historically, and amusingly all unaware of their communion and unadressing it.
phf: if i have files a b and patches x y z, x is genesis, y does a->a', z does b->b', topo sort x z y. if i were to ask for y press, i also get z, whether i need it or not. conversly if i press z, i don't get y.
punkman: phf, my "shortest path" algo is to recursively find all antecedents of the patch I want to press. it's useful.
mircea_popescu: phf in the example you gave the implication is you NEED z.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:29:59; PeterL: my node is syncing, seemed to be getting tons of junk. I restarted it, using -addnode with the nodes from the wiki, seems to be going good again.
mircea_popescu: im sorry, i mean : if you didn't need y, then y should have been z'.
phf: so in the above example x y z are distinct patches, their effect is to take files through states, a, a', a". so if a patch takes a->a', then it needs a in genesis. if a patch takes a'->a" then it needs genesis and a->a' patch. i was trying to indicate that y and z modify two separate files, i'm trying to see what is there that indicates that state (a' b') is desirable over (a' b)
phf: right now it seems like an artifact of topo sort
☟︎ mircea_popescu: phf nothing in the physical situation as you describe it indicates that. nevertheless, the implicit meaning in how the topo sort owrks is that you need a to a' for b to b' to be meaningful. this could be because one is .h and the other .cpp, fopr instance, or becauise other stuff is coming later or for any other reason
mircea_popescu: because people didn't make both y and z first level nodes of x, people are indicating that whether you know why or not, you need a->a' for b->b'.
mircea_popescu: nothing of course prevents you from taking z and rebasing it as a first level node off x.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00055788 = 15.3975 BTC [+]
phf: a way to indicate (a->a' b->b') would normally be to include them both in a single patch. i think that's how it's done now
mircea_popescu: yes but we for very good reason do not want multi-issue patches.
mircea_popescu: so in full terms, i would say that again, including both in the same patch is both premature optimization and a kludge.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 16:06:03; thestringpuller: how you gonna sell a mouse for 60 bucks
mircea_popescu: just, in a metaprogramming sense that did not exist prior to V putting light on the issue.
ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: rat9 suxx, you can have mine for the cost of postage
ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: supposedly there is an x11 patch to make it go
mircea_popescu: . i'm with punkman in that if you're going to prefix in that much detail, there's going to have to be some sort of filtering scheme. i'm not with him that flags are the solution, it just seems an ad-hoc hack unix did that got carried forward. i'm still partial to my multi-logfiles idea, fwiw. altogether a lot more thought must be put into "how to structure" this, but sadly it depends on a fully specified bitcoin, so it
mircea_popescu: . i'm with ben_v (and apparently ascii too) in that it's really best practice to make patches small and issue-focused. it's not just a matter of review, it's to ease future rebasing and so on. as antidesign it may seem to you personally on the basis of workflow, this is one of those things where individual has to take a small step back to allow society altogether to exist.
pete_dushenski: ascii_butugychag: nor i. rat9 looked spiffy but chewed through swappable battery in ~5 hours. even when 'worked' it twitched and jumped and spasmed and triggered all kinds of inane shit. couldn't even highlight menu bar drop-downs.
mircea_popescu: you two made me google that damned thing. seriously, a mouse ?
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punkman: mircea_popescu: so how would you split polarbeard's patch?
ascii_butugychag: it is heavy, metal, has screws and ratchets for adjustment, etc.
mircea_popescu: punkman the rotating log fix separate from the rest, for one thing.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: it bothered me that polarbeard apparently does not yet fully grasp that every line he writes is a unit of ~work~ for other people to do.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's a lot of stuff in there that will necessarily result in a huge patch (the guy is stuck, willy-nilly, doing a lot of
mircea_popescu: - return error("CBlock::WriteToDisk() : ftell failed");
mircea_popescu: 1601+ return error(SBLK "failure wrting block file %d to disk due invalid stream position", nFileRet);
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: the patch ended up being a bit verbose, yep, but it made sense to me fixing the messages as I was adding metadata, that's why I didn't add filtering, to not add actual logic to an already pretty big patch
mircea_popescu: but it's also immense and should all be one single patch so we can see it more readily.
mircea_popescu: polarbeard yeah, you get the right idea, but seriously, making a single patch consisting of JUST -return error +return error is the right way
ascii_butugychag: so i can ask the same question, line after line, for a whole patch
polarbeard: also I thought you can dump to console and grep until we reach consensus on how we want to do the actual log splitting and filtering
mircea_popescu: note that the only way i got my apparently very controversial /s /t patch to even be considered was showing how it could be machined.
mircea_popescu: note however you should dump to file not to console. because otherwise mess of tee's
mircea_popescu: yes, if you just dump into console i'm going to have to pipe the program throuygh a bunch of different greps
punkman: polarbeard: the thing usually runs as a daemon
polarbeard: xargs -I'@' sh -c 'echo \"@\" |cut -d\" \" -f1,3- | tee \$(echo \"@\" | cut -d\" \" -f2)'
polarbeard: one field forward for the category, if you want both then yes, more piping
mircea_popescu: the point is that people running bitcoind have a whole array of measures, which mostly work as cat logfile | mess
mircea_popescu: or whatevs, tail logfile | mess for teh realtime stuff
polarbeard: yeah, I understand people don't want to run rube-goldberg machines
polarbeard: I'm open to suggestions but now I'm a bit saturated of this, I'll somewhere else for some days...
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: one of the items i have in mind for shivafication is sane event logging
polarbeard: punkman: yes, the rube-goldberg pipe was inteded to be used as a nohup'd tail on debug.log
thestringpuller: "And minoritycoins will be worth much less than majoritycoins, because they are worse in every practical way. They take longer to confirm, fewer people accept them for payment, they are protected by less hash power, and they are much more difficult to transact safely." << Not if majority coin is sunk early on and money flees to minority coin. What "actual" economists is this d00d hanging out with that "vetted his scaling propos
mircea_popescu: polarbeard don't get this wrong, you did a lot of very useful work in that patch.
mircea_popescu: the best way forward, imo, is to restructure it as 1) one large patch consisting of nothing but the return fixes and some smaller patches doing the rest of the stuff built on top of that.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller minority coins may be "worse in every practical way", but they are BETTER in the only way that matters : minority doesn't inflate, majority does.
mircea_popescu: THIS is how bitcoin, the "minority coin" par excellence, kicked fiat's teeth in.
mircea_popescu: and this is how bitcoin will continue to kick the teeth in of any sort of fiat, no matter how superficially bitcoinized.
mircea_popescu: specifically because "majority is better than minority in every practical way" except the one way that actually matters, which the majority is never willing to confront.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45600 @ 0.00056045 = 25.5565 BTC [+] {2}
polarbeard: mircea_popescu: yep, will come back with a task-unified group of patches
mircea_popescu: i'm slowly discovering what an IMMENSE help to debugging and code maintenance this thematic unity thing is, incidentally.
polarbeard: usually there is a lot of blind trust involved
ascii_butugychag: (i.e. part 1 can be mechanically-litmused: 'this only adds the ts genesis material')
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the other point : even if scheme does in the end become an integral part of sane error management a) his work is very important for providing the structure that'll illuminate that and b) will prolly be mostly reused strings in different wrapping anyway.
ascii_butugychag: i see nothing wrong with cleaning up classical error handlers, etc, so long as it is done in line with the flow principle described earlier.
ascii_butugychag: (and questions like 'is this ONLY a format change' ought to be answerable mechatronically)
mircea_popescu: well i'm not willing to stake on that, because what the fuck do you know we'll discover. but at least as an expected ideal, yeah.
ascii_butugychag: the overall idea i am trying to teach is that anybody changing a line of trb ought to be mindful of the work this creates for others
☟︎ ascii_butugychag: i originally did not publish the thing that is now shiva because i was not comfortable with asking friends to read 5,000 lines of tinyscheme.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this harkens back to such a more lovely time in the computer lab.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 16:35:23; mircea_popescu: actually that's the first time someone brought a cogent, well thought out objection to the classic "programmers wanna play and so ruin productivity spending moe time on tools than the tools save" thing
ben_vulpes: imagine you have to wait for your cane to become useful for a minute randomly during a beating
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00054645 = 11.5301 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: punishment doesn't necessarily have to be a spur of a moment thing, i'm not training dogs.
ben_vulpes: programming similarly is not a supur of the moment.
mircea_popescu: sounds like actually an improvbement over current caning best practices.
ben_vulpes: a whole gurl just to supply extra canes in case yours hangs?!
mircea_popescu: hey, the whole thing's predicated on productive waste.
mircea_popescu: that what female enslavement is all about in the first place.
ben_vulpes: just wait the thirty seconds randomly five times per event, having a spare on hand will never pay off.
ben_vulpes: the fifteen second interruption has mega cognitive costs.
ben_vulpes: it is the hole through which distraction slips in and focus dribbles out.
ben_vulpes: it was inadequately articulated for my taste.
ben_vulpes: and deserves more of a place in the lgos.
mircea_popescu: all the shit you boys do just to get to pretend like you don't need any adhd meds.
mod6: ok folks, my build succeeded with the changes to moving V outside of the rotor directory.
mod6: here are my changes, please review and try this out:
mod6: you just need to create a .wot dir and place keys in there, then (in the same directory do this): `./build-bitcoind-v99996.sh`
☟︎ hanbot: oh hey. mod6, i'm ezbake-ovening that now!
mod6: the one I just posted?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:02:40; mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag this harkens back to such a more lovely time in the computer lab.
ascii_butugychag: i confess that i've been using my ancient vtron. but will prolly switch to mod6's industrial-strength one very soon
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag you know, "thinking of the work this means".
hanbot: mod6> the one I just posted? << yeah
mod6: hanbot: ok awesome. let me know how it goes.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: do you recall the article you wrote about the meaning of money ?
ascii_butugychag: the one about what jobs you were willing to take when you were a consultant
mircea_popescu: yeah but it folk's been whores for so many years now...
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:42:20; PeterL: are chinese miners some sort of unit that all must act together?
ascii_butugychag: i just brought a set of sparse matrices to orgasm, for instance
ascii_butugychag: perhaps when mircea_popescu wrote 'it folks have become whores' he was thinking of 'crack whore'
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 14:55:07; trinque: there is a kiss of death for btcd which halts it in its tracks, does not crash.
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag i just meant they've been living in a particular half-world for a while now.
trinque: I... have it on a restart cron job... and I feel dirty.
trinque: am waiting for that one to sync
ascii_butugychag: nah iirc he is actually using a product called btcd, by one conformal co.
ben_vulpes: it looked better than prb back in the day
mircea_popescu: well other than get bogged down in / give a shit about inept nonsense being thrown their way.
trinque: yep, I have a ticket open to have an SSD put in my new box,b ut am awaiting response from the (disappointing) new DC
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 15:08:20; thestringpuller: the problem here is I doubt satoshi had any idea how visa and traditional payment systems scaled in comparison to bitcoin.
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 15:38:47; ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff
mircea_popescu: whoa mom, check me out, i made it through yet another day of these here kiloline logs!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158500 @ 0.00056045 = 88.8313 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: Slashdot Media, which owns the popular websites SourceForge and Slashdot, has been sold to SourceForge Media, LLC, a subsidiary of web publisher BIZX, LLC << o check it out, moar spam.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: what i want is not a gutted corpse of gnudiff, but a turing-complete vtron
ascii_butugychag: and i originally thought 'let's take & clean gnudiff' and barfed ten times.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that article is fucking epic. dude's so pointedly answering from a web-cattle farmer locus it's hysterical.
mircea_popescu: “Our plans for Slashdot include supporting the mission of Slashdot’s slogan, ‘news for nerds, stuff that matters,'” he said. “The site has millions of loyal users that visit and engage on the site each month, and we want to do the things necessary to keep Slashdot positioned as the best technology-centric news and discussion site on the web. We do not plan any radical changes, and will keep the opinions of th
mircea_popescu: “Well, I’m not sure I completely agree that Slashdot is less vital these days or has lost its luster,” he replied. “It serves millions of unique viewers each month, which we think is pretty significant.
mircea_popescu: “We see the Slashdot community as a vibrant community made up of industry professionals and enthusiasts that are extremely passionate about tech, tech news and discussion, many of which have been active and engaged for over a decade,” he added.
mircea_popescu: slash-dottie's first short skirt, slash-dottie's first drunken sexual encounter, slash-dottie's first gangbang, where's that pic of sharon stone
mircea_popescu: "This is one of those things that seem true for those who have gotten spoiled by the windowing environment. The reason this can't be considered true is that at some point, you have to specify (or get down to) a ModelOfComputation, and the one most programmers use is simply different than LISP which is very different since it has no definition of MachineTypes?. See ConfusedComputerScience."
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
phf: you're trying to wire a latex renderer on top of logs?
ben_vulpes: (unrelated: www.northofreality.com/tales/2016/1/27/wealth-appreciation)
ascii_butugychag: in-band signalling (i.e. 'this magic sequence of characters anywhere in the text launches the rockets') suxxxx.
ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: unless it's the magic bits to dump the launch codes back down the pipe
phf: i remember there was a pretty big stink when firefox was magic sequencing xml files as rss feeds years ago
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag would you stop trying to be cute. in band signalling is the only fucking signalling there is, until you invent telepathy.
mircea_popescu: the discussion is whether you're an educated sort of dude with collapsed bands, or a barbarian needing "multiple" but somehow magically not infinity-many bands
ascii_butugychag: there is also 'what follows is N bits which will behave AS BITS' or 'what follows is M bits which are launch code.'
mircea_popescu: consider the epic failuire of private messages to gather import or relevance in the trb and you;'ll have a fine illustration of why multiband is retarded.
ascii_butugychag: is it 'magic code can come ~any time~' or 'magic code specified in WELL-DEFINED place'
mircea_popescu: there is no shortcut to resolve the interpretation conundrum.
ascii_butugychag: there is, however, the ample retardation of the 'any time' variant.
mircea_popescu: just like their unruly, ill behaved irl counter... parts.
ascii_butugychag: when collaborating mathematically, i am stuck with MOTHERFUKING chalkboards
mircea_popescu: i like boards so much im actually going to buy one just for slavegirl training.
mircea_popescu: it also pleases me no end some of teh womenz have reached that pinnacle of intellectual achievement where one's needed.
mircea_popescu: blackboard is a thing of thought. what's on it, less important.
ascii_butugychag: incidentally mircea_popescu will be very pleased to learn that over here we have crappy ersatz american non-chalky boards
mircea_popescu: lol i always wondered why us highschoolers didn't get into toluene huffing\
ascii_butugychag: but i find that there is something palpably... unmathematical, about 'whiteboards'
ascii_butugychag: i still remember the whanging headaches i got just from sitting in front row
mircea_popescu: it's mathematical alright, just i guess unsatisfying for a wholly unrelated biological cue
mircea_popescu: anyway. the value of the blackboard is a sort of peripheral remanence of summary.
mircea_popescu: actually, there's a cartoon of all thiongs that best illustrates what a blackboard is as a device of thought. lemme see if i can fish it out\
ascii_butugychag: ('boogie' is an a5-sized slate thing that changes colour from pressure, and has a button, press and it erases to black. runs on tiny watch battery.)
mod6: hanbot: everything going ok? is it building or, having any hangups/questions?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:13:35; mod6: you just need to create a .wot dir and place keys in there, then (in the same directory do this): `./build-bitcoind-v99996.sh`
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4741 @ 0.00054581 = 2.5877 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: thanks danielpbarron -- hey please give this a try if you can. I figured that you might be a good one to simplify the steps and up date the wiki as soon as we get some confirmation that all is good with the script
mod6: and upon a few others successfully building, trinque, can you work your magic with deedbot and place that guy in there so its like deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-v99996K.sh or whatever?
☟︎☟︎ phf: so we have files a, b and patches x, y, z. x is genesis. y is a->a'. z is a'->a" b->b'. the way v connects the graph is x-y x-z y-z, i.e. patches that have hunks that share state for a file in before and after are connected. it is explicitly not a transition graph, which would be x-y y-z (since you can't apply z on top of x without first applying y)?
mircea_popescu: i guess it would be a transition graph, at least in most cases.
mircea_popescu: note that (as per discussion today and intention throughout) your z should really be stated as z1 a' -> a'' ; z2 b -> b'
mircea_popescu: this remains true even if we go from a, b being files to them being blocks, or themes, or other reasonable division.
phf: i remember ascii suggesting that perhaps we should stick to one hunk per patch, but that's not the case right with existing patches. if z thematically needs to touch two different files (a and b), then both modifications are inside a single patch
mircea_popescu: that situation may occur, and it is a signal that the way code is split into files is broken and needs fixing, i guess.
mircea_popescu: but this line is i suppose not germane to your inquiry so let's let it be.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25720 @ 0.00054369 = 13.9837 BTC [-]
phf: i think it's relevant, but i need to reflect how. fwiw right now there's a bunch of vpatches that modify multiple files at the same time
ascii_butugychag: the reason why i once suggested breaking up all patches into atomic patchons is that right now we have a stricter than necessary dependency flow
☟︎ mircea_popescu: phf well yes but using v as an ideal object vs using v as applied to the world's most patently deranged pile of cathair and wet noodles.
mircea_popescu: i don't think you can find anyone who both read bitcoin source and thinks the file split is sane.
mircea_popescu: for that matter the level of abstraction displayed justifies the use of MAYBE three files, otherwhise it really looks like the guy wrote the whole thing on one scroll so to speak.
phf: ascii_butugychag: i am speaking of vpatches, i'm starting to grok that mp is speaking at a different level of abstraction
hanbot: say mod6 (or whoever else knoweth), given keys in .wot dir are to be named by wot identity a la mod6, what am i to name korsgaard's key, since he's not in wot?
mod6: place that key on your gnupg keyring via --import
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> try just korsgaard << i guess you could try this
phf: we've been through this
mod6: only in the context of verifying the packages signatures
mod6: this is basically outside of V
phf: v is used to press the source only, but there's a bunch of shit happening outside of v, including verifying some third party package signed by this korsgaard guy
hanbot: oh so i don't actually need korsgaard's key in the .wot dir
mod6: hanbot: no, sorry this is confusing.
mircea_popescu: all you should in the .wot atm is what's in the script, ie,
mod6: these are public keys that you need in your keyring
mod6: to verify V, trinque's special patch, buildroot, and other stuff.
mircea_popescu: + # You need to have these keys in your gpg keyring to vertify V, trinque's special patch, buildroot, and other stuff.
mod6: I'll change the comment, standby.
phf: mircea_popescu: anyway, i was speaking of how things are right now in v.py/v.pl. a hunk touches a file, hunks are grouped thematically (i.e. by a single unit of meaning) in a patch. a pairing of antecedent/descendent creates a graph and in combination with topo logical sort produces a press order
phf: having multiple hunks in a patch modify several files at the same time creates a harder transition constraint then simple antecedent/descendent pairing, so i'm thinking it's probably safe to construct a graph in terms of transitions rather then purely a/d. the end result should be the same
kakobrekla: it brings me some satisfaction im not the only one confused
ascii_butugychag: phf: i ~would~ like to see a maximally-granular (split into patchons) version of mod6's flow graph
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla at some point it was discovered configure doesn't configure properly without --host=x86_64-linux given explicitly.
phf: (all this v talk past few days, i decided to sit down and grok, so Writin My Own V (tm)(c) at the moment)
mod6: as soon as i get through the end of this month, a renewed emphasis will be put on ditching this script, and getting to a finished place with trinque's makefiles that'll hopefully be easier to understand.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: phf this is worthy goal and a pretty effectual approach even if it doesn't get used for anything post-grok
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: holy shit, shitgnomes are trying to pervert even greenspun's law ?!!
mircea_popescu: mod6 it's no good because it still doesn't explain WHERE they should go. it's ambiguous between .wot and keyring\
mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag what are you, from a planet of shelf stable cheese, viande and laws ?
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, ok will fix.
mircea_popescu: gotta say, you know, "in keyring", save people a boggle.
mod6: # Required Public Keys to add to your PGP Keyring. This are used to verify V, rotor, buildroot, and trinque's patch:
mod6: # Required Public Keys to add to your PGP Keyring. These are used to verify V, rotor, buildroot, and trinque's patch:
mod6: !up ascii_butugychag
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ah nm, it was the x86 flag << yeah.
mod6: hanbot: still having some probs?
mod6: if you tried to build with this script, and something went wrong, which im pretty sure that it did, you need to blow everythign away (aside from your .wot dir and your keyring of course - have back ups! /me looks at people who blew away their keys) and start over.
mod6: this thing doesn't play nice trying to run it more than one time with old artifacts laying around.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51321 @ 0.00055271 = 28.3656 BTC [+] {3}
hanbot: not really. i've been fucking around trying to get bash to save public key block to file without detritus, giving up for now and just copypasting. i'll letcha know if it goes wrong, thanks for the cleanup note.
mod6: hanbot: alrighty, thanks. sometimes if I don't hear anything, i just assume the worst. heheh.
mod6: just want to make sure you're not stuck.
assbot: Woman says she is a cat trapped in the wrong body - she hisses at dogs, hates water and claims she can even see better at night - Telegraph ... (
http://bit.ly/1PKiW2x )
pete_dushenski: mod6: i have a question about the version string patch... i seem to have applied it correctly but i'm still seeing version "50400" even when trying the '-setvernum' command so i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong. this is a new instance that's in the process of syncing, not 'tevye', which properly shows '99999'. i used the original 99997k script and applied 'version-strings' and 'hearnificarum' manually and both are now
pete_dushenski: y patches directory. should i just wait until it syncs fully and build another rotor (with line 61 updated) or is there something else i can try ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39840 @ 0.00055138 = 21.967 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: pete_dushenski: ok good q. shinohai had some issues with trying to set the value via the command line too - i haven't even tested this yet.
mod6: Now, with mine bitcoind, mine just comes up without setting any flags at all as 99999. so maybe try without any commandline flags first.
mod6: but this needs to be investigated for sure. or maybe asciilifeform has some example we can follow?
pete_dushenski: iirc shinohai was seeing 99999 and was trying to change it to 99997
pete_dushenski: whereas the stock 99997k.sh yields 50400, which is what i'm seeing.
mod6: yeah, i dont know. i'd try building with the new v99996 script, and then see what happens.
mod6: this is of value since I really haven't played with this on my own. perhaps log your results and post.
mod6: in here if nothing else.
mod6: yup, thanks for your patience and willingness to work on this.
shinohai: YEs pete_dushenski and mod6 in my tests it didnt change. Haven't tried setting or doing anything else since then, just letting the node run.
shinohai wants to compile with the new patches posted last night to ml
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 15:48:48; asciilifeform: mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! because said printf ~precedes~ the setting of the custom string. this may explain shinohai's confusion.
BingoBoingo: I believe reddit user's first four characters are "paul" and can't bother spelling the rest because reddit.
ascii_butugychag: pete_dushenski: i was gonna point out the version string thing but you found it in the logz already.
mod6: so if i use -setvernum=99997 it'll show up in the log but not getinfo?
pete_dushenski: but i don't discount that i bunged something up along the way
shinohai: I didn't get it in "getinfo" though myself. Still shows 99999
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 19:05:23; ben_vulpes: imagine you have to wait for your cane to become useful for a minute randomly during a beating
cazalla_: thanks pete_dushenski! came to ask you something about cars actually! are the complaints i'm reading about CVT (noisy, blow up, are shit and to be avoided) legitimate?
pete_dushenski: i'd say that, by and large, that's a fair assessment of cvt transmissions : they're complex to repair and unintuitive to drive, in my experience
cazalla_: looking at getting a toyota corolla, say 2011-2014 and most autos on the market are cvt, not 4spd auto and manuals seem few and far between :\
shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 &
☟︎☟︎ cazalla_: pete_dushenski, any reason why?
pete_dushenski: just keep digging back into history until you're not swimming in shit, it's the b-a way !
pete_dushenski: no reason for 2010 in particular, just earlier than 2011. corolla didn't always have cvt, so just... dig back
cazalla_: so many of the cvts around down under :\
cazalla_: i find something with full service history, low km and then.. cvt :\
pete_dushenski: cazalla_: might be worth it to find an older car, higher km, just to avoid the cvt. then again, maybe you drive the cvt and don't mind it for the kind of routes you frequent, who knows
pete_dushenski: no change to version string after -setvernum command issued
cazalla_: well, the hunt continues, thanks again pete_dushenski
shinohai: I know the patch applied, because bitcoind -? shows it as an option
mod6: pete_dushenski: ya, as soon as we get a couple of people confirming that v99996 builds for them correctly, we'll throw it into deedbot, but thanks!
pete_dushenski: humourously, wp wouldn't allow '.sh' to be uploaded for 'sekoority raisons'
mod6: thanks for testing that out.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00055447 = 11.5884 BTC [+] {2}
hanbot: <mod6> just want to make sure you're not stuck. << looks to be puttering along nicely for me, ftr.
BingoBoingo: In sideshow news, Tommy Chong endorsed Bernie Sanders. Hilary just can't win.
pete_dushenski: in 'go' related nyooz, i spent some time talking to martin muller at the 'physics mixer' i attended last night. he's the associate research chair at the university of alberta in computing science and one of the leading researchers in monte carlo methods and the 'go' game. apparently this 'world-beating' research is happening right in my own very back yard !
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00055805 = 7.0872 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: also related, turns out 樊麾 is a friend of a friend of a friend. word from that channel is there was no handicap in matches
funkenstein_: "look at the statues, entirely different people." <-- it what things look like that's important?
funkenstein_: anybody else's day ruined after watching that spineless nazi demo video?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43950 @ 0.00055884 = 24.561 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ well the question of identity and image is too complex to carry out in the margins of that example huh.
mircea_popescu: and re the games : are they published anywhere ? best way to sort this entire mess
mircea_popescu: nfi why the ORIGNAL announcement wasn't "here's the games!"
mircea_popescu: but instead had to be meta-meta bs about who did what to whom and what it supposedly means.
pete_dushenski: mod6: 99996k built and running. back to scarfing blocks. should be synced early next week.
assbot: 'Spanking' over nude Snapchat photo leads to assault conviction for parents - British Columbia - CBC News ... (
http://bit.ly/1RRCjXw )
pete_dushenski: summary : parents hit daughter with skipping rope and plastic hockey sticks, WHICH LEFT MARKS OMG, because fillie was caught sexting and chose this punishment over being grounded. parents were then not only charged but CONVICTED of assault by provincial court.
pete_dushenski: not like this retardation is sustainable, so enjoy prosecuting jaywalking and other trivial non-crimes, canada, enjoy it while you still have oil and trees and fish as slaves to make 'everyone' worthy of due process.
diametric: pete_dushenski: the article i read didn't say marks, but specifically lacerations.
pete_dushenski: "It came to the attention of police when the daughter showed bruises on her buttocks to two of her girlfriends, who in turn reported what they had seen to the school principal." <<
diametric: deep bruising and lacerations, as in they were beating her severely enough to cause bleeding.
punkman: "To suggest that responding to such acts by a teenaged daughter (14 going on 15 years), by spanking her with an object, would be educative or corrective, is simply not believable or acceptable by any measure of current social consensus." << indeed, gotta encourage the nudes :P
diametric: not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point.
pete_dushenski: punkman: i wanted to cry for the world i'm bringing my children into when i read 'current social consensus'. then i remembered that you have to get caught first !
pete_dushenski: and if you're caught, that you can't afford the best lawyers !
pete_dushenski: and that if that's still not good enough, that you wouldn't burn the court house to the ground and piss on the ashes !
punkman: pete_dushenski: might be cheaper to just move
pete_dushenski: if i got up and moved everytime idiots were idiots, i'd live on the moon already.
mircea_popescu: mod6 your latest pressing away on a new system. will announce it and add to trb fleet once done.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00056036 = 23.0028 BTC [+] {3}
TomServo: It appears I'm somehow wedged at 252450 again. :( Just completed my first restart, so we'll see.
punkman: (not about buying 18yo females, no)
punkman: TomServo: did you adjust db locks?
TomServo: punkman: No, is that required if using the wiki build script?
mircea_popescu: Saving to: “/home/bitcoin/rotor/buildroot-2015.05/output/build/.gcc-4.9.2.tar.bz2.GCAtsD/output”
mircea_popescu: TomServo yeah it's required if you want to sync, bdb as shipped with original btc croaks on larger blocks
mircea_popescu: (this is totally an isolated case and "scaling" bitcoin is totally safe guise, nevermind that nobody seriously tested this)
punkman: TomServo: depends when you built it
danielpbarron: diametric, so what if lacerations? have you seen some of the bdsm pics linked in here?
TomServo: punkman: I used build-bitcoind-99997K.sh, OS install and bitcoind build were on the 27th.
mircea_popescu: <punkman> "To suggest that responding to such acts by a teenaged daughter (14 going on 15 years), by spanking her with an object, would be educative or corrective, is simply not believable or acceptable by any measure of current social consensus." << indeed, gotta encourage the nudes :P << rank nonsense. beatings are quite educative, in practice.
mircea_popescu: what "consensus" ? is this a consensus of the derps that never beat anyone nor have ever educated anyone ?
assbot: Logged on 29-01-2016 21:39:38; shinohai: ascii_butugychag: LC_ALL=C nohup bitcoind -conf=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf -datadir=/home/shinohai/.bitcoin/ -setverstring=bitcoind -setvernum=99997 -logtimestamps -myip=127.0.0.1 -verifyall 2>&1 &
hanbot: i mean is most of that for troubleshooting or is that what it takes each time?
mircea_popescu: ie, infantile delusions of sovereignity through "privacy". this doesn't work. sovereignity behaves publicly and with impunity. that is the fucking point.
☟︎ punkman: hanbot, I think you don't need -conf if you have -datadir
shinohai: At minimum hanbot you need the -myip -conf and -datadir flags
shinohai: I may be wrong but it works for me
punkman: what's LC_ALL=C do for bitcoind?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: no debate. but if i'm sovereign, how can the polizei charge me ? what's next, arresting bahamas for health care insurance fraud ?
mircea_popescu: suppose someone comes in here with proof you stole their shit.
assbot: Logged on 22-12-2015 01:17:06; asciilifeform: LC_ALL="C"
punkman: shinohai: any reason you went with nohup instead of -daemon?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: canuck polizei might charge rando 'religious couple' because xtians are bad mkay, but foreign ambassadors ?
punkman: pete_dushenski: did you start the canadian b-a embassy yet?
shinohai: Always have used it punkman no particular reason I guess :/
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski didn't they kidnap the sitting fmi head over "charged" based on the testimony of a streetwalker that the us district attorney had paid to lie ?
punkman: hanbot, so if you don't use nohup, you can also get rid of the redirection at the end "2>&1 &"
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: sounds identical to the strauss-kahn set-up
danielpbarron: my node (the one i started at the same time as Mircea) is still chugging along happily; now at height=367932
danielpbarron: and it's been going uninterrupted since more-or-less the beginning (i stopped and started it after the first few k blocks for some reason)
shinohai: Only time I have stopped mine is for upgrades. Otherwise it runs merrily along all day.
mircea_popescu: ftr mod6 : i ended up with two rotor.sh scripts, one under rotor the other under rotor/test2
phf: actually that one seems to be buggy? there isn't any branching, they all are linear. hmm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37500 @ 0.0005576 = 20.91 BTC [-] {6}