davout: a mormon?
davout: didn't know
trinque: https://www.mormon.org/matz
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: (message to proberz : probe that is visible to the motherfucking naked eye , regardless of how otherwise original, is an insult to the intelligence of a shoe) << qntra was hit hard with a comment spam cannon. Will take time to clean up approval que.
mod6: <+trinque> somehow that fits << haha
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: sbp: i recommend drinking less - srsly, it worked for some of the folks here... << That step 1
shinohai: After Birthday celebrations tomorrow I shall drink no more for a while.
shinohai just can't quit.
asciilifeform: in other 'news',
asciilifeform: my 'ibm model F 122-key' is here.
asciilifeform: 1/2 cm thick steel pedestal and all.
asciilifeform: the springs, would you believe, sound like shamisen strings when pressed.
asciilifeform: smoothest action i've ever felt.
ben_vulpes: trinque: roger, will do
mod6: oooh, i get this decision table now. if r1=4, r2=6, r3=3, then i yield a final value of 2.
mod6: why was that so hard? i think the example is maybe just not very well, um, explained? i dunno
mod6: ive been lookin at this for /way/ too long.
BingoBoingo: 188.143.234.* and 188.143.232.* shame on you
shinohai: Also BingoBoingo thanks for preserving the "Shapeshit" spelling as I intended.
BingoBoingo: no problem
shinohai: ^__________^
asciilifeform: mod6: what are you trying to do ?
mod6: ok you that decision table for a d6 here: http://pit-claudel.fr/clement/blog/generating-uniformly-random-data-from-skewed-input-biased-coins-loaded-dice-skew-correction-and-the-von-neumann-extractor/
mod6: i need to make one for a d16
mod6: the first step was understanding wtf was going on with the arrows going up/down or up/down/down, up/up/down, down/up/up, down/down/up
mod6: or w/e
mod6: now just need to expand for 16
deedbot-: [Qntra] Bitcoin Difficult Increased ~7.09% - http://qntra.net/2016/04/bitcoin-difficult-increased-7-09/
mod6: dang
davout: BingoBoingo: s/Difficult/Difficulty/
davout: mircea_popescu: report update is up
mod6: I think this would work right? http://dpaste.com/1GP2X8Q.txt
BingoBoingo: ty Monsieur Francois
davout: makes me think about señor chang
davout: EL TIGRE
mircea_popescu: davout so we're at
mircea_popescu: ;;google 134.44868891 -.8
gribble: No matches found.
mircea_popescu: ;;caulk 134.44868891 -.8
davout: lol
gribble: Error: "caulk" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: ffs.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 134.44868891 -.8
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
davout: hahaha
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 134.44868891 - 0.8
gribble: 133.64868891
mircea_popescu: rite ?
davout: no
mircea_popescu: ...
davout: see http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-14#1451749☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-14 12:27 davout: ;;calc (1040.78385211 - 841.33337474) - 50 - (30.00357692 / 2)
BingoBoingo: ;;cawk
gribble: Error: "cawk" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 199.45047737 - 0.8 - 50 - ((30.00357692 -0.8)/ 2)
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
mircea_popescu: what the everloving
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 199.45047737 - 0.8 - 50 - (30.00357692 -0.8)/ 2
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
mircea_popescu: 134.04868891 in any case
davout: ;;calc (1040.78385211 - 841.33337474) - 50 - (29.20357692 / 2) - 0.8
gribble: 134.04868891
mircea_popescu: hey frenchy, you do your math i do mine!
davout: mircea_popescu: see? that's how it's done, just use numbers. NUM- BERS.
mircea_popescu: dumbers!
mircea_popescu: anyway, aite, will be sending it tomorrow. same addy as in your original deed.
billy_mays: but wait, there is more!
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: there was enough of that!
davout: kakobrekla informs me he has something to bring up, details to follow
davout: either way, i'm going to bed, it's late here
mircea_popescu: later
mod6: night davout
mod6: Anyway, so i was re-reading through http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/
mod6: If we basically just tagged bitcoin in V as is today, then we could possibly start working on the implementation of the prereqs above.
mod6: I personally have hardly even begun to look at what/where/how these code changes would need to take place in the current cod.
mod6: *code
mircea_popescu: mod6 well one major question to be decided is : obviously there's the project of cleaning up extant bitcoin code ; by the discussion re july of forks, there's also the proposal to start a separate project to make an "ideal bitcoin". this proposal wasn't ever seriously discussed and i dunno that it ever was actually accepted as such.
mod6: But starting might just be half the battle. We'd have to go through a process of perhaps identifiying first, where to swap out SHA2-256 for SHA3-512. (whatever needs to be included, what structures and fields need to be lengthened, etc)
mircea_popescu: so one thing is you know, to come to some sort of decision on what to do there. strategy-wise, as it were.
mircea_popescu: the other point, whatever may be decided on the previous point, is to make some sort of roadmap or even ideally graph of parts and then see who can do what and so on
mircea_popescu: they're pretty large issues.
mircea_popescu: but you know, i think blind enthusiasm has carried us about as far as it will ; moreover, everything has its time and place.
mod6: fair enough.
mircea_popescu: can't sprint everything forever, it's just not possibru.
mod6: so i guess there are short term and long term initiatives: Short term (for this summer, 12 weeks from now) it might suit us well to have a SHA3 bitcoin in our back pocket. And with some mapped/planned out work there, would still be a long shot, but possible, I suppose. Long term (1+ year or more?), concurrently there could be work towards an actual hardfork with an ideal bitcoin written in something, such
mod6: as Ada. We've all kicked it around a bunch about the lang, and I'm not sure we're all sold on Ada. But seems like a step in the correct direction overall.
mircea_popescu: well, there's two classes of arguments pro iB that i can readily see. one's very fundamental : the code is shit, the "grandfather pistols" thing will only go so far, it is by its nature finite in utility. eventually the trhing will have to be redone well. it is, after all, a misuded prototype.
mircea_popescu: the other's very practical : every halving is a difficult time for bitcoin. it's a more or less homeostatic structure, which means that with some periodicity will go into crisis. you don't know what crisis will rupture a vessel and give it an aneurism, but it is indubitable that the quality of alternative on offer is the best measure of its lfie expectancy.
mircea_popescu: in this sense, a good iB in back pocket as you say plays the strategic role of "fleet in being", in that it protects the old shit from too violent a crisis.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that the incentives of the vermin are modified by its projection. vermin being definitionally captive subject to incentive potential.
mircea_popescu: (yes asciilifeform, "captive by local minima" is not the definition of adulthood, or of civilisation. it is the definition of rat.)
asciilifeform: flea, not rat
mircea_popescu: rat.
asciilifeform: rats occasionally get on boats.
mircea_popescu: for this reason tho.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason why the sort of guy that can't pass the simplest test of manhood, that pons asinorum known as the prisoner's dilemma is known as a rat.
asciilifeform: ah that rat.
asciilifeform: anyway if you ain't captive your pit aint deep enough, is what i say.
asciilifeform: but we could go on re this forever.
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the iB : there's a number of very valuable ideas, at least in my eyes, that discussion throughout has brought out. yes the sha thing discussed on trilema ; also - ada, linked into the c, and slowly driving out the c, much in the way the vermin try to drive out say x11 or rsa etc.
mircea_popescu: there's also - a good db. and other things. a list should prolly be made.
mod6: im missing something, what is 'iB'?
asciilifeform: i suppose possibly it might help if i reveal what i had in mind.
mircea_popescu: mod6 "ideal Bitcoin", ie the 2nd thing. i dunno just came up with it
mircea_popescu: for need of a name.
mod6: ah, ok got it.
asciilifeform: i've been playing with a bare-metal (x86) ada build chain.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to no one's surprise.
asciilifeform: console i/o to serial (emulated, presently)
mircea_popescu: what the fuck else was the incentive there.
asciilifeform: objective is to let go of the whole shitstack.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: what, whne you were raving about ada the specified, what did you think i read, exactly this, "oh, he hopes and wills to make the whole chain"
asciilifeform: presently i can load/store disk blox.
mircea_popescu: it actually worx ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu always grasps what i mean.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for a very narrow 'worx'
mircea_popescu: only when you mean something smart :D
mircea_popescu: so yeah, ada is certainly a good thing in that pot.
asciilifeform: 512b blox. in, out.
mircea_popescu: with any luck, all the way to verilog.
asciilifeform: next thing will be to port my rtlink nic driver to ada (with minimum of asm)
asciilifeform: then we can actually speak of useful wurk
asciilifeform: the nifty thing is that ada standard specifies own scheduler.
mircea_popescu: of course the less nifty thing is that whether this entire pile actually works or collapses under its own haskellweight is an unknown.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what'd that look like ?
asciilifeform: there isn't, note, a haskellian runtime in the thing
mircea_popescu: i mean something peculiar. not of the thing itself, but of the effect it has on heads.
asciilifeform: it builds to a traditional binary, like any other gcc.
asciilifeform: ah you were thinking of complexity collapse.
mircea_popescu: of that particular kind. yes.
asciilifeform: this will depend on ~people~
mod6: Ok, so i had to re-read all of that so im finally caught up here.. i didn't even consider interleaving ada with C really. i dunno why, i was just thinking it would just be its own separate deal.
mircea_popescu: the haskellweight of a project, how likely it is to suck brains and ideas into a black hole of nock.
mircea_popescu: mod6 that was the major point , that they are miscible. very rarely you get so lucky, that you can add icecream to shit,
mircea_popescu: and then gradually push shit out.
mod6: I suppose that makes sense that parts could be re-written async ... ^ this right.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: considering that ada uses no peculiar ('functional') abstractions, and is pretty much a c with 'bdsm'-restrictive pointer mechanics and hard bounds checking - the nock thing is not in the mix
mod6: sort of like we were talkin about with Scheme, etc.
mod6: ok
mod6 thinks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i follow the theory of it, or else i'd be covered in liver spots.
mircea_popescu: practice is always its own thing tho. we see.
asciilifeform: the one risk is that folks might get carried away with the 'belts and suspenders' and write some very slow code (where there are type predicated on everything, etc.)
mod6: Then, i think my initial still holds. Short term C releated work, if it can even be done in time. And meanwhile, new icecream replacing dogshit.
mircea_popescu: mod6 you understand what i mean by "fleet in being" ?
mod6: not exactly.
mod6: oooh
mod6: yeah, i read about this before.
mircea_popescu: ok, it's a concept from maritime strategy, that meanwhile took over mainstream. the idea is that if you have one big battleship, and the enemy has three, you are ill advised to go into battle. because if you sink two, and they sink yours
mod6: "In naval warfare, a "fleet in being" is a naval force that extends a controlling influence without ever leaving port."
mircea_popescu: you have created this situation when the enemy has one... relatively infinitely large battleship.
mircea_popescu: instead, you keep your battleship in port. this ties down the enemy, and they can't go about doing their shit normally
mircea_popescu: they have to keep accounting for your potential activities. hence the "in being" part.
mircea_popescu: \this can end up costing, by the end of the war, way the fuck more than their battleships were wortjh in the first place.
mircea_popescu: it's a basic approach to leveraging local superiority into actual total value.
asciilifeform: sorta the 19th c. variant of the specificity-of-diddling thing.
mircea_popescu: pretty much.
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, active development of an iB is actually useful beyond its use.
mircea_popescu: mod6 you follow the logic here ?
mod6: yeah, i think so.
asciilifeform: in the past i referred to such items as 'parachute'
asciilifeform: i keep a number of'em around
asciilifeform: and did not bother to describe all of them here
asciilifeform: (not all are interesting to all folks)
mircea_popescu: mod6 like i pointed out to davout in the middle of that heated discussion re how things work, this is one of those things that deal with the negative of "works"
mircea_popescu: anyway.
mod6: So, we build a new battleship, and keep it in port. This will make 'em bleed through the purse.
asciilifeform: my understanding is that this role, to the extent it was filled by anything, was previously filled by mpb.
mircea_popescu: if we are in a position to say "we don't want a fork - but if you do, THIS fork will prevaly, no matter what you do, because it actually is the tech schelling point" then that's the end of that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mpb is creaking at the seams.
mircea_popescu: i am not made of infinity.
asciilifeform: i recall this. it is rather like 'cruiser aurora', bottom - is of cement
mircea_popescu: and as the idiots keep investing themselves, no matter how ineptly, they'll eventually build a shitpile large enough, i suspect.
mod6: anyway, this seems to make some stategic sense to me.
mircea_popescu: i guess one good move, and very foundation-like, would be to make lists of what we want, both for cB [cleanning Bitcoin] and iB [ideal Bitcoin]
mircea_popescu: something beyond the very summary skeletons discussed in chat prior and even further summarized above.
asciilifeform: would help also to nail down the exact cryptomechanics of a viable 'iB'
asciilifeform: (rsa? cs?)
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there's anything wrong with proper, full rsa (as opposed to the neutered version implemented by pgp)
asciilifeform: there is the one thing.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: (the utter inefficacy of all of the padding schemes, hence cs)
mircea_popescu: i don't know there's a better alternative than cs.
asciilifeform: i personally do not have one.
mircea_popescu: of course, the discussion re cipher composition is herein included by reference.
asciilifeform: so long as diffie-hellman problem stands up, cs stands.
mod6: i hope not, you got paid for cs submission!
mircea_popescu: no he didn't ?
asciilifeform: mod6: i must point out that i was not paid
asciilifeform: because it is not time.
mod6: oh, thought that you got the 10 BTC?
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: eventually, but not jetzt
mod6: oh my bad
asciilifeform: we settled, iirc, that whoever shows up with ~working~ widget, gets the prize.
mod6: Ah
asciilifeform: then i went off into my pit to produce a cstron.
asciilifeform: pit - is deep.
mircea_popescu: anyway, making a list of all the things seems paramount
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> i guess one good move, and very foundation-like, would be to make lists of what we want, both for cB [cleanning Bitcoin] and iB [ideal Bitcoin] << ok so this is a start.
mircea_popescu: impossible to organize activity otherwise ; or for that matter to maintain any semblance of discipline or morale.
mod6: This is something that ben and I can put together.
mircea_popescu: once it gets started it can be snowballed by chan discussion even.
mod6: sure.
BingoBoingo: Iterlude from the mines: "During the 9/11 attacks, more people died than should have because the obese people in the buildings could not move down 20 flights of stairs as fast as needed. FACT. Obese people moving slow (as fast as they can) in a burning building stairwell absolutely can cause people to not make it out alive. This is the most triggering one for me. I'm one of those people who volunteered in my office to help people escape
BingoBoingo: in case of fire, and during the last drill (my building is only four stories for fucks sake) an obese coworker was out of breath and had to stop half-way with a huge line of people behind her - if this was a real emergency, I'm sorry, but I'm gunna gunt punt that woman to ensure everyone can make it out alive." https://archive.is/7ObHD
mod6: I think this is a good stopping point for today probably. Plenty of food for thought. Getting the list together is a small enough chunk to get us started.
mircea_popescu: word.
mod6: I'll start putting this together, let's check back in on where I'm at say, mid-next week.
mod6: Next friday checkpoint at the latest. Even if it's just a quick update.
mircea_popescu: aite
mod6: anyway, did anyone else rip off that guys Perl CS implementation from his university paper and get it to work?
mod6: I got it to work, kinda sorta.
mod6: It was abomitable, though.
mod6: I think it would encrypt a string. Then decrypt it, but it wouldn't/couldn't take any different input. haha.
mircea_popescu: my perl is marginal
mod6: played with it for an evening or something. this was like right around the time of the contest.
mod6: not that its useful, just was curious if anyone else saw it
asciilifeform: mod6: i saw it. not particularly useful.
asciilifeform bbl, food
mod6: ya aight.
mod6: mircea_popescu: so they've got a lot of cattle in .ar then?
mod6: I thought you were saying once that it was mostly like soy farming or w/e?
mod6: or how did that go?
mircea_popescu: historically, argentina was built by the prussian market for leather.
mircea_popescu: but these days, they mostly do soy. less skilled labour involved, and they're idiots.
BingoBoingo: Is there actually labor in soy beyond maintaining the machinery? Soy is hella mechanized here.
mircea_popescu: not much, no.
BingoBoingo would not be surprised if there were some soy farmers out there who had not intentionally touched a bean.
mod6: i guess it does seem like maybe the terrain out there would be good for grazing. kinda like the mid-west used to be without the fences. ala kansas, oklahoma, texas circa 1800-1880
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: but you can't ranch without cowboys ; and argentines are truly retarded.
mircea_popescu: as the old guys die, there's no young guys to replace them.
BingoBoingo: So that's where the "Argentine Cows ranch themselves" comes from.
mod6: no cojones?
mircea_popescu: eh, they all wanna be carrie bradshaw. except they don't even put as much effort into it as the average midwestern hayseed chick
mircea_popescu: that at least TRIES to hide her hick accent.
mircea_popescu: mod6 but if you ever wanna retire, could prolly buy a thousand acres in cordoba and get a nice ranch going. possibly for less than what retirement costs in the us.
mod6: now that is a solid idea
mod6: i'd love that shit i bet
mircea_popescu: it's really a very mild, slightly drier arizona
mod6: :]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 425.0, vol: 3632.36413865 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 420.551, vol: 4578.73019 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 428.4, vol: 5940.73572926 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.629766, vol: 26549.68400000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 425.9, vol: 532.21485511 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 427.633725, vol: 46.73936602 | Volume-weighted last average: 426.058602215
punkman: https://mastermind.atavist.com/he-got-greedy
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell adlai that inside man crap's unwatchable.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: from the viewing room: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058672/ and 5 hours of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1321865/
BingoBoingo: Reddit measures its self https://archive.is/OL2Jq
davout: ;;ticker --currency eur
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
davout: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 427.01, Best ask: 427.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 427.03, 24 hour volume: 7402.77736424, 24 hour low: 424.03, 24 hour high: 428.74, 24 hour vwap: None
davout: ;;ticker --currency eur
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
davout: ;;ticker --currency EUR
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
davout: ;;ticker --currency EUR
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
davout: meh
davout: ;;ticker --currency EUR
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
davout: meh
davout: so re bitbet what kakobrekla points out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-04-2016#1444031
davout: mircea_popescu: ^
davout: i disagree with the conclusions
davout: anyway, as soon as i receive the additional cash i'll craft the unsigned transaction and publish it for public review
davout: re x.eur -> http://dpaste.com/0080X96.txt
shinohai: http://www.thelocal.fr/20160414/us-france-for-numerous-human-rights-issues <<< project much USA?
mircea_popescu: davout you seriously intend to make one single tx ?
mircea_popescu: davout i have no idea as to what kakobrekla is ranting/raving about nor any interest.
mircea_popescu: there is this theory that his brain at some point worked, years ago. i subscribe to it. sadly he has been silent for years ; his newfound interest in things and verbal flurries on topics may be interesting, but principally to whatever paid medical professional. i'm neither paid nor a doctor, and in any case i am of the firm conviction that he is non compos mentis, and unable to evaluate any statement.
mircea_popescu: shinohai it's part of the us' incredibly lulzy "we may be the dumbest kid in school but this other kid picked his nose" attempt to use the immigration wave their warcrimes throughout the middle east caused.
mircea_popescu: because yeah, they totally don't need france's vote once mexico invades.
jurov: mircea_popescu: pls to mpex
mircea_popescu: kk.
davout: one of the cool things about this chan is that i get to learn a bit of latin every day!
mircea_popescu: lol
davout: pons asinorum, non compos mentis, today's lessons
mircea_popescu: nb.
mircea_popescu: it really burns reddit / the average curve-thrown ustard, also.
mircea_popescu: DONT THEY KNOW WERE DUMB ???
davout: latin is racist, obv.
adlai: mircea_popescu: SORRY TO HEAR YOU DIDN'T ENJOY THE MOVIE oopslock is infecshus i guess.
mircea_popescu: no but seriously... peter hammond derp leaves phone behind to be a hero, has not sufficient familiarity with how the phones work to put it in quiet mode ?
mircea_popescu: you know there's advertisements all over buenos aires for "classes de smartphone". they depict on cheap paper a lock and an ancient brick phone halfmerged.
mircea_popescu: maybe peter hammond would like to participate ?
mircea_popescu: and while we're on it, where the everloving fuck did they find those incredibly pliable, ready and trained set of people of walmart ? i bet you that on a million dollar budget you can't get together actual streetwalkers in new york that strip when they hear "i'ma need you to strip".
mircea_popescu: no stained panties ? nobody had a little girly accident ? nothing ? just, military level americans ? where the fuck.
adlai: my favorite scene was the one with the jewish asthmatic
mircea_popescu: i only made it to about there. buncha idiots with assault rifles running "the most brilliant coup in history". apparently thye missed the "adequacy of weapon to task 101" class at sane people academy. took the hollywood altreality class instead.
mircea_popescu: i'd be shitting my pants if i had to do crowd control in unknown crowd with a fucking assault rifle omfg.
mircea_popescu: what if someone has a knife ? there goes my throat ?
adlai: forgive my brashness, but did you watch it through to the end or quite partway?
mircea_popescu: i fucking wonder why riot police gets billyclubs.
mircea_popescu: adlai possibly 5 minutes past the hammond scene.
adlai: it sounds like you figured out the twist too early, and lost interest in the rest
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "figured out"
adlai: ah well, i'll have to search for a better movie to recommend next
mircea_popescu: anyway, that hammond thing is a nec plus ultram (< davout ) in derpage. EVEN AT THE TIME HIS LIFE WAS ON THE LINE, the shmuck did yet still not know his phone is not on quiet. this person has no children in the house, never had a girfriend he was two timing, grew up without parents, etc.
mircea_popescu: he comes from a fucking vat. method acting ftr!
adlai would rather come from a vat that into a tube!
mircea_popescu: lol k
mircea_popescu: [the subtext here being that who the fuck tells his fucking name omaifuckinggerd. what if he were josh wilderbaum, just for that once ?]
adlai: so mircea_popescu, your commandment will be fulfilled, but i doubt i'll title my blog exactly as you wished. (sosumi)
adlai is reporting live from the playroom
mircea_popescu: does it have an url or are you too special for uniformity of resource locators ?
mircea_popescu: and wait, i wished a specific title ? i r old and forget.
adlai: human-telepathy-transfer-protocol://www.ickylove.co.il/left/right/fightfightfight
adlai has some candidate titles, will mull them over while he procrastinatesthe sysadmination of things
mircea_popescu: ickylove pretty good name
mircea_popescu: sounds like a zappa 10 minute song. "Come on baby come get some of that icky love
mircea_popescu: icky love...
adlai needs to rearrange his physical world, will report back from the next station. peace be unto all!
shinohai: ;;ud Alaskan Pipeline
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=alaskan+pipeline | alaskan pipeline. n: the act of pooping in to a condom, freezing the rubber overnight, then inserting it in to ones anus. Invented at the University of Iowa by Brian ...
shinohai: m'kay den
adlai: $up PeterL
deedbot: adlai may not $up PeterL
asciilifeform: $up PeterL
deedbot: PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
PeterL: ty adlai
adlai: oh damn, this thing is getting smarter every day
PeterL: mod6 http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/7fac0581-f9c7-4082-8243-0869e2303f24/
PeterL: I cleaned up the python snippet you linked for the dice debiasing
PeterL: I took out some of the "sneaky" pythonisms, might be a bit clearer now?
PeterL: and I fixed a couple bugs, like the mismatched variable name and some missing float casts in the test, and I added a rudimentary prompt if you run the script from a shell
adlai: PeterL: Returns False if any of the three rolls are equall. '''
PeterL: aha, had it as false and then changed to 0, oops
asciilifeform: for the record,
asciilifeform: something always struck me as very http://trilema.com/2013/the-danger-of-homebrew-crypto - ish about dice-genning keys
asciilifeform: yes, it is better than using one's mother's name or 'head' (see http://www.loper-os.org/bad-at-entropy/manmach.html for which sense)
asciilifeform: but it is NOT a substitute for modern electric rng
adlai always preferred to use the I Ching ritual, with the yarrow stalks, repeated ad nauseam until you fall asleep from boredom
asciilifeform: and yes, yes, 'everyone has dice'
asciilifeform: everyone also has an arse
asciilifeform: does not mean one ought to generate key with it ?
PeterL: and now they can have "provably unbiased" dice
asciilifeform: PeterL: more complicated than this. play with the von neumann algo, it is not magical
asciilifeform: it only removes reasonably-uniform bias
adlai wonders whether what he should really work on, these days, is completing his "Bitcoin Competence Certification" (the trilema thing)
asciilifeform: e.g., 101010101010 will simply end up 000000
asciilifeform: you can't distil entropy from where it does not exist, with von n
PeterL: I'm not saying you should use this, just trying to fix the mistakes in the linked code so people could explore it more
asciilifeform: adlai: my only advice is that you should work on finding something you ~like~ to work with
adlai likes to read and type, shoot and snipe... the verse is the worste but the rest is the beste
adlai: in other news, i'm seriously considering arranging for a bitcoin miner so i can work on p2pool while in the farm
adlai: that joke would probably even restore david foster wallacefrom the grave
mod6: ;;later tell PeterL hey!! Thanks!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: that was very cool. :]
mod6: <+PeterL> I took out some of the "sneaky" pythonisms, might be a bit clearer now? << looks that way, I'm gonna play with this a bit tonight. But I did quickly try it out. Thanks again.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> but it is NOT a substitute for modern electric rng << hey, i guess to an extent, i totally agree. except, we don't have a modern electirc rng.
mod6: <+PeterL> I'm not saying you should use this, just trying to fix the mistakes in the linked code so people could explore it more << yeah, much appreciated. im on an adventure.
mircea_popescu: phf a) can has 100 rather than 20 finds for search ? b) http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=moon&page=16 is last page notwithstanding that 16 * 20 !> 500
mod6: here's a question. with regard to this (http://pit-claudel.fr/clement/blog/generating-uniformly-random-data-from-skewed-input-biased-coins-loaded-dice-skew-correction-and-the-von-neumann-extractor/), with three d6 rolls of [453] what would be the result?
mod6: I'd say the result should be: 3.
mod6: Anyone else want to make a guess or make a case for a different value?
shinohai: I wound up with eleventeen.
mod6: Eleventeen is out of the range of acceptable values, but a decent guess nevertheless. :]
shinohai: kek
shinohai: Ignore me, I may or may not be slightly intoxicated.
mod6: na, how's it goin shinohai ?
shinohai: Good here mod6, 'tis my birthday so making plans to go out later, and you?
shinohai really needs one of those Suburbans that can hold 7 hookers discussed in the old logs.
mod6: Hey, happy birthday, Sir!
mod6: Oh yeah, seven-hooker-burby is the way to roll.
shinohai: Any new updates on trb?
mod6: The biggest update comes from lastnight's congressional transcript.
mod6: Will be putting immediate effort into a list of discussed problem areas; for both ideal bitcoin, and existant bitcoin.
shinohai: Yeah I'm going to review that when reading comprehension returns to normal lol.
mod6: No worries, it's probably worth a read. Kinda getting things back on track.
shinohai: I'm really glad to hear that, haven't had anything to do much besides hunt for Qntra articles of late.
shinohai: And I miss poking btc with a stick.
mod6: Yeah, my apologies.
mod6: Mine still runs and everything is good. Just been in a "lull."
mod6: You're now experiencing a lull.
shinohai: lulz not lulls
shinohai: :D
mod6: haha
mod6: Anyway, seems like there'll be a lot of things to keep you busy in the near future if you want to work on stuff. So, there's that anyway.
shinohai: I'm ready. Thanks to mats I am not worried about space constraints any longer. Gonna try and order some Ada materials soon and get up to speed with you guise.
shinohai drinks a glass to tmsr [~]D
danielpbarron pours a whiskey
danielpbarron: cheers!
shinohai: Prost!
danielpbarron: what is that, dutch?
shinohai: German.
shinohai: btw danielpbarron didn't you have some info stashed away somewhere on building a gentoo on pogo instead of arch?
shinohai has been meaning to ask.
danielpbarron: the info is that it's supposed to be possible, but I have yet to achieve it
danielpbarron: I can sorta-run a gentoo on a pogo by chrooting from another linux
danielpbarron: haven't gotten it to use its own kernel yet
shinohai: Ah okay I was gonna give it a go for shits and giggles.
BingoBoingo: If you have too much shits, perhaps change that to goggles
shinohai: >.>
shinohai wonders if Qntra would get sued if I wrote a satire piece about Erdogan.
trinque: getting sued by Turkey would be awesome
ben_vulpes: aaa scrollback
ben_vulpes: cannot catch up at th' mo'
BingoBoingo: Ok, I'm starting to get tired of this fucking Freenode weather that's picked up substantially since the channel split. Before I could spend weeks with continuous uninterupted connection. Now, I'm lucky to stay connected a whole day. No other aspect of my connectivity has fucking changed.
BingoBoingo considering to move for a motion of shennanigans on Freenode.
trinque: seconded.
BingoBoingo: Not to mention once disconnecting, reconnecting now takes far more attempts.
punkman: you ever get SSL errors on reconnect?
trinque: deedbot has been disconnecting with them
BingoBoingo: I have not
trinque: http://qntra.net/2016/04/soft-fork-advocate-proposes-harder-type-of-soft-fork/
trinque: $up deedbot-
deedbot: deedbot- voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: How exactly would Ergodan sue?
BingoBoingo: This is not a trivial thing for him to pursue.
shinohai: I suppose he would subpoena usg ?
shinohai: *via
BingoBoingo: Suppose he manages to get papers served and even finds a court that takes jurisdiction. How does he go about taking all of my glorious nothing?
adlai: he could ask mircea_popescu to transfer to himself all your s.qntr!
adlai: or has turkey not yet opened an mpex account
shinohai: LOL
shinohai: Sue in the court of tmsr
davout: if turkey ends up in receivership, give me a ring
shinohai: ^
BingoBoingo: adlai: To be fair, Jurov handles most s.qntr transfers
deedbot-: [Qntra] Docker On List Of Companies Taking Quiet CIA Funding - http://qntra.net/2016/04/docker-on-list-of-companies-taking-quiet-cia-funding/
BingoBoingo: ^ Perhaps of interest to Herr vulpes?
mod6: BingoBoingo & trinque; im not sure how i seem to stay connected for as long as i generally do. but i bet among us all, i have the longest running connection times; on average.
mod6: And I do nothing special really. Have a node for irc, using irssi.
BingoBoingo: mod6: Before the divorce I'd keep connected for weeks at a time. Basically until I did something that closed connection.
trinque: the deedbots are entirely separate source code. one's golang, the other's lisp. both tend to disconnect around the same times, and when the box they're on is minimally loaded
mod6: I propose that we do not move (too hard to get a full net of slave nodes going + ddos mitigation, which, you know we'll need desperately) until we break off with gossip
trinque: I agree with that; there's no solution other than gossipd
mod6: these issues could very well be the node you're connecting to on freenode i guess. *shrug*
trinque: and then, y'know, having our own internet
mod6: right.
mod6: i know. freenode sucks. but, its what it is for now.
mod6: shinohai drinks a glass to tmsr [~]D << here's to your birthday pal
BingoBoingo: I'm just bringing this up because the timing of the enshittening seems suspish
shinohai: thx mod6 cheers!
BingoBoingo drinks shaker of brotein to shinohai's birthday.
trinque: matcha over here
mod6: BingoBoingo: eh, yeah, i doubt it. not saying that you're wrong; just that, you can't dos a channel itself. only its individuals if you know its inhabitants.
mod6: like that dos thing that used to sit in #b-a and collect ips
trinque: mod6: other chans I frequent are seeing lots of disconnects and timeouts
mod6: yeah, that's probably good-ole fleanode degradation
trinque: yup, 'tis a shitpile
mod6: i mean, i think we're pretty special and all, ( ;D ) but i doubt theres a bunch of people who care enough to try to slag down the whole fleanode because of drama.
shinohai: Both my irc client and bot stay connected here pretty good, but both are on same box.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> BingoBoingo: eh, yeah, i doubt it. not saying that you're wrong; just that, you can't dos a channel itself. only its individuals if you know its inhabitants. << I'm not trying to imply anything other than timing of my connection's enshittening seems suspish
BingoBoingo: Who knows? Maybe having one more channel was too much for Freenode?
mod6: ah. could be. i'd venture to guess that perhaps its the node or nodes on the network segment you're connecting to doing something weird, or bad, or being attacked.
mod6: i have like 10 channels open at all times, for decades.
mod6: damn near decades anyway.
BingoBoingo: In other lulz https://archive.is/jJowM
mircea_popescu: shinohai> lulz not lulls << werd!
shinohai: ^____^
mircea_popescu: * danielpbarron pours a whiskey << ron cubano original ftw!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo as they explained, they've learned from lessons of the past and will be doing things differently or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: we're prolly going to actually need gossipd before we have it.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yes you can ddos "a channel itself" in the sense that if it runs on its own infrastructure you just ddos the nodes, ie individual instances running ircd or equivalent.
mircea_popescu: * Welcome to the freenode Internet Relay Chat Network mircea_popescu Your host is barjavel.freenode.net[], running version ircd-seven-1.1.3 << this thing
shinohai: Remember the old days when you could mass kick everyone from chan and take over on some ircd's
mircea_popescu: vaguely
mircea_popescu: http://deedbot.org/deed-403869-1.txt << in which i discover that the original application was never deeded o.O
mod6: hmm
mod6: i dunno. anyway, i just thought, not impossible, just seemed unlikely.
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=4191
deedbot-: [Trilema] BitBet final settlement - http://trilema.com/2016/bitbet-final-settlement/
mircea_popescu: i guess. that's the bidding nick tho.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's the same guy, but w/e
mircea_popescu: in other news, if you send me "notices" ima ignore you. win-win.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo should be interesting once the gods of coincidence arrange for a mob of welfare derps to assault the house of some gonzo or other, resulting in machine gun fire from multiple positions and a few dozen dead innocent bystanders.
BingoBoingo: Maybe routine in 15 years?
mircea_popescu: routine it'll never be, don't imagine the rats are all too brave.
mircea_popescu: but now and again, it should occur.
BingoBoingo: All it takes to become routine is the rats becoming *MORE* ratlike.
mircea_popescu: romania has and throughout history had the about same exact ethnogroup. gypsyes rather than black, but otherwise exactly identical : loud, gregarious, female-centered, easily dominated by a coupla decisive men etc.
mircea_popescu: there's no "more" ratlike. this is, by and large, the golden age.
mircea_popescu: all downhill from here.
BingoBoingo: Ah
mircea_popescu: (oh, yeah, and in a pile of mutatis mutandis lulz, gypsy 'music' [manele] almost exactly replicated the itinerary of black 'music' [rap] except compressed over a decade instead of three. amusingly enough - the participants were extremely fucking EARNEST! in complete and unabashed unawarness of the systemic nature of their deeply personal, thoroughly felt, aesthetico-political choices
mircea_popescu: i had the lulz of my life for an entire decade on the topic. there's, by and large, nothing dumber than people.)
mircea_popescu: everything you ever saw said or thought or felt about rap as a subcultural phenomenon, some romanian somewhere thought, said or felt, as if they were his fucking own words, feelings and thoughts! and the groups respectively map, also!
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/docker/comments/4eyp3e/docker_quietly_taking_cia_money/
BingoBoingo: In various Theo poor https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=146075114225572&w=2
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 407462 | Current Difficulty: 1.7867830767168845E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 409247 | Next Difficulty In: 1785 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 428.45, vol: 4271.41215787 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 425.426, vol: 5788.85884 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 431.44, vol: 15533.2622823 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 429.298392, vol: 32002.23470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 430.0, vol: 596.10021561 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 431.20945, vol: 31.48555609 | Volume-weighted last average: 429.430709964
asciilifeform was just in a marina. long story.
BingoBoingo: Automating longshoremen?
phf: visiting with capital yacht club m'boy
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --currency rmb
gribble: Error: Failure to retrieve ticker. Try again later.
mircea_popescu: lulz
mircea_popescu: and in other "things foodstamp hipsters do not like to hear" news, https://archive.is/VbZJV#selection-1889.0-1889.9
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/tObou
BingoBoingo: $up dooglus
deedbot: dooglus voiced for 30 minutes.
ben_vulpes: i just saw something that looked a lot like CLOS in clojure
ben_vulpes: product of the DoD
phf: http://clojurewest.org/images/speakers/2016/mpatella.jpg http://clojurewest.org/images/speakers/2016/bcovert.jpg http://clojurewest.org/images/speakers/2016/kfellows.jpg http://clojurewest.org/images/speakers/2016/mdrogalis.jpg http://clojurewest.org/images/speakers/2016/bbatsov.jpg
phf: christ man why would you do that to yourself
adlai: ben_vulpes: wait till you see something that looks like javascript in CLOS, product of the adlai department of teenage larvalry
mircea_popescu: cuz i'm just a teenage dirtbag baby...
ben_vulpes: phf: gotta eat
ben_vulpes: (also missed all of those talks, although i am looking forward to the bbatsov talk)
ben_vulpes: (may be hard to not heckle)