botneko-chan: The main principle of cool ddos is: you give $ for bandwith and $ for us and we have fun all month
mircea_popescu: botneko-chan anyway, prolly should read the logs.
botneko-chan: Who (or what?) is prolly?
mircea_popescu: probably, shortened.
kakobrekla: as far as we discussed he understands the blockchain size problems or the lack of there of.
botneko-chan: ah, ok. I'm non native speaker, shortened eng sometimes hard for me
mircea_popescu: just in general speaking.
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/02/foscam-internet-of-shit-seekoority-camera-phones-home-peers-with-other-cameras/
assbot: Foscam Internet Of Shit "Seekoority" Camera Phones Home, Peers With Other Cameras | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qej0ok )
botneko-chan: yay
botneko-chan: like internet of shit so much
BingoBoingo: ty
botneko-chan: have botnet of routers more than 2 times bigger than Core's network
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.00058232 = 10.0741 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: !up adlai
punkman: is anyone making smart-tv/fridge/microwave botnets yet?
kakobrekla: add wifi laundry washing machines to the list.
botneko-chan: These aren't so widespread
BingoBoingo: Yet
botneko-chan: yep
punkman: pretty sure this was in the logs, but couldn't find it http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-24707337
assbot: Russia: Hidden chips 'launch spam attacks from irons' - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1QejMS2 )
mircea_popescu: lol. FLATTENED BY IRONING IRONS!
mircea_popescu: oh the irony.
adlai: good morning #b-a
asciilifeform: punkman: ancient news
asciilifeform: the teapot case.
asciilifeform: some electric tea kettles were found to be 50g overweight each at customs.
asciilifeform: spamatron, searched for open 802.11.
asciilifeform: !up molz
botneko-chan: they banned me on /r/Bitcoin_Classic
botneko-chan: booooring
molz: asciilifeform: thanks :)
asciilifeform: molz: and who might you be ?
botneko-chan: ant then they say that there is no censorship on classic/xt while core is censored
molz: asciilifeform: a bitcoin fan
molz: what's this channel about?
asciilifeform: molz: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com
assbot: start [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1T3HRP6 )
punkman: this month's cellar pick: https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6171/6179728104_4e701c0f30_b.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1T3HVyo )
punkman: get it before the venezuelans burn it all down
mircea_popescu: molz ideally, read the logs.
molz: mircea_popescu: very interesting, love it
kakobrekla: fast reader
molz: are you guys on bitcoin core slack?
mircea_popescu: !s trb
assbot: 516 results for 'trb' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=trb
mod6: ben_vulpes: re shiva, cool that you're getting into that!
mod6: asciilifeform: re yesterday (line 47) of some version of the V99997 build script.... I took a look at the one that was deedbot'd and that line was correct.
mod6: i dunno where that other version came from.
mod6: i'll dig it up, but none the less, everyone should be using v99995 now
mod6: thanks to whomever updated the wiki
mod6: anyway, here is the deedbotted v99997K (http://deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-99997K.sh) -- but this is obsolete. DO NOT USE.
mircea_popescu: how was teh vacation mod6 ?
mod6: nice :]
mod6: really quite helpful to just relax for a couple of days.
mod6: shinohai: cool! maybe take a backup at somepoint before you get to 100% so incase of power-cycle you won't have to start over from genesis.
mod6: mircea_popescu: how's everything been around here
mod6: ?
mircea_popescu: pretty good, actually.
mod6: good deal.
mod6: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 435.69, Best ask: 435.7, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 435.69, 24 hour volume: 16224.04349694, 24 hour low: 422.1, 24 hour high: 437.89, 24 hour vwap: None
mircea_popescu: heh you're even richer than when you left!
mod6: haha.
mod6: my favorite.
mod6: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 400471 | Current Difficulty: 1.6349165490895926E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 401183 | Next Difficulty In: 712 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 12 hours, 27 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mod6: it's been weird to even be afk for 24 hours.
mircea_popescu: breaks do a body good.
mircea_popescu: and in other pre-porn news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/2b8e16a7eb6146a88171856b7b971dbd/tumblr_mniti61WFw1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1OGxhG4 )
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> breaks do a body good. << yeah for sure. and i think it totally helps to step back and see the entire forest through the trees.
mod6: in scheme news, i learned how to read a file and print it out the screen. lol
mod6: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-02-2016#1417559 << we're gonna need a whole lot of procedures. I'm excited to see all of your submissions.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-02-2016 17:13:58; phf: we don't have a way to serialize/deserialize yet, so the point is moot, but probably not for long
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.00058001 = 23.2004 BTC [-]
mod6: i'll check back in later all! <3
punkman: http://www.madcowprod.com/2016/02/22/dripping-blood-a-severed-arm-67-tons-of-cash-on-a-cia-plane/
assbot: Dripping blood, a severed arm, & 67 tons of cash on a CIA plane | MadCowNews ... ( http://bit.ly/1XU07d5 )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1417816 << now i ~really~ would like to know where hdbuck got it.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 01:07:38; mod6: i dunno where that other version came from.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform does readelf ever run the elf ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no, why?!
asciilifeform: not as printed on the box, at least!
mircea_popescu: because weird reports from guy re eulora lol.
asciilifeform: let's have it ?
mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-02-29.log.html#t02:33:25
assbot: #Eulora log for Monday, 2016-02-29 ... ( http://bit.ly/1XU2axZ )
mircea_popescu: i never heard of such thing in lyfe.
asciilifeform: oh for fucks sake
asciilifeform: the highlight.
mircea_popescu: what ?
asciilifeform: nm, found with manual grep
mircea_popescu: dun tell me THIS doesn't work either
mircea_popescu: oh come on.
asciilifeform: nope.
pete_dushenski: "danielpbarron: It autocompletes ./euclient" << top line on my box
mircea_popescu: a href="#t00:21:04" class="time">00:21</a> << your browser is VERY broken
asciilifeform: srsly i have six boxes here with 6 browsers and not one.
mircea_popescu: i don't care. if it doesn't select correctly on a href anchor it's so broken it wouldn't qualify as a browser in 1995.
asciilifeform: but at any rate, if indeed 'readelf opened the game', this is a discovery and ought to be reproduced.
mircea_popescu: yeah but dun work here.
mircea_popescu: course i'm not installing fucking zorin or w/e the thing is called
asciilifeform: wtf even is that
mircea_popescu: "ubuntu more like windows"
asciilifeform: try and at least persuade him to post his readelf binary.
mircea_popescu: a yeah
pete_dushenski: fwiw b-a logs always and everywhere seem to link correctly. maybe eulora logs need some of that kako magic pixie dust ?
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-02-2016#1417045 << weird. this works.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-02-2016 00:05:52; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ben_vulpes and everyone else into supercute de-windows-ization : http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-02-27.log.html#t23:38:19
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: say at least where you actually saw the highlight thing ~work~
pete_dushenski: it works on archive.is, does it not ?
asciilifeform: (on what wwwtrons)
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i suspect that it is a js thing
pete_dushenski: as it is on trilema iirc
asciilifeform: same one ?
asciilifeform: bitwise ?
pete_dushenski: ^ mircea_popescu
pete_dushenski doesn't know, wasn't there.
pete_dushenski: "SSD UBER rates are higher than disk rates, which means that backing up SSDs is even more important than it is with disks. The SSD is less likely to fail during its normal life, but more likely to lose data." << from punkman's link.
asciilifeform: soooo in other nyooz,
asciilifeform: i recently built what i believe is an exact replica of rms's laptop
asciilifeform: 'thinkpad x60' with libreboot and replacement ('atheros') nic
asciilifeform: it is unusable.
asciilifeform: cpu overheats when building gentoo.
asciilifeform: almost certainly because the compatibility was a bold-faced lie, and the cpu 'frequency scaling' thing doesn't work.
asciilifeform: (explicitly admitted to in the docs, but somehow 'this doesn't matter')
BingoBoingo: Is the heatsink appropriately copper colored or is it laminated with tar?
asciilifeform: solid cu.
asciilifeform: and, again, this is not something that happens normally.
BingoBoingo: ah
pete_dushenski: http://www.rbc.ru/business/12/09/2015/55f41c069a79470d63db37df
assbot: Автор теории «черного лебедя» назвал причины для инвестиций в Россию :: Бизнес :: РБК ... ( http://bit.ly/1XU46GH )
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: is rms hawking these turds himself ? cui bono from this misdirection ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> pete_dushenski: i suspect that it is a js thing << look at the page source. no js, just a href anchors.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you are still thinking of rms as a self-aware creature, having a thought process
asciilifeform: i am no longer sure that this is true.
pete_dushenski: perhaps so eh
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Perhaps he has become a lichen as he aged. Half man half malassezia since the toe jam incident.
punkman: are there any alt-RMSes?
asciilifeform: wtf would that even mean ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: when confronted with the idea that his life's work is an utter failure, man tends to wander into some very peculiar corners.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.0005826 = 2.2139 BTC [+]
punkman: asciilifeform: wtf would that even mean ? << other crazy fsf people that want to be rms
pete_dushenski: in other cultural news, http://archive.is/ZxUaw
assbot: Jean-Marie Le Pen on Twitter: "Si j’étais américain, je voterais Donald TRUMP… Mais que Dieu le protège !" ... ( http://bit.ly/1VMgzuD )
asciilifeform: punkman: you cannot 'be rms' without the history
asciilifeform: it is pretty much all he has.
asciilifeform: https://www.mail-archive.com/trisquel-users@listas.trisquel.info/msg46322.html << aaaaaaaand apparently i am not the only one to notice.
assbot: [Trisquel-users] X60 Libreboot Trisquel 7 Overheating ... ( http://bit.ly/1VMgF5y )
punkman: what, the history of "utter failure"
asciilifeform: punkman: the history of emacs and gcc
asciilifeform: and the miscellaneous (e.g., ai lab) legends.
asciilifeform: etc.
mircea_popescu: !up DicePower
mircea_popescu: you can voice yourself by pm-ing !v to assbot
DicePower: Ahh okay, thought I had to decode that hash thing.
DicePower: (which didn't work for some reason)
mircea_popescu: you will, yes.
asciilifeform: https://twitter.com/bejaranodelgado/status/589634676093943808 << cargocult idiots.
asciilifeform: flea as in fleadom.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you use tghe wifi ?
asciilifeform: i threw the intel wifi in the trash and installed atheros.
asciilifeform: but yes, i use it.
asciilifeform: its a motherfucking laptop.
mircea_popescu: ah right
asciilifeform: and i own an ir thermometer.
asciilifeform: and fucking hate idiots.
mircea_popescu: maybe i'm thick, but...
asciilifeform: the original card heats, yes. new - no.
mircea_popescu: ah
asciilifeform: plus there is apparently no remnant of doubt that coreboot (aka linuxbios) does not properly handle the variable cpu clock thing, nor the fan controller
asciilifeform: and people just live with this.
asciilifeform: phun phakt, the x60's original bios has 'computrace' infection, though this is mentioned nowhere in the docs, nor in the original 'bios setup' (normally, they do.)
phf: most of the time i spent setting up linux on macbook pro was tracing and eliminating overheating problems
asciilifeform: eliminated how ?
phf: cargoculting /proc and disabling almost everything. on mbp issue is mostly with discrete ATI card
asciilifeform: 'almost everything' being, e.g., what ?
mircea_popescu: what's cargoculting ?
phf: ati card, bus that it sits on, wifi, sd card slot, firewire slot, hdmi, bus that those sit on
asciilifeform: phf: what is even the point? why not throw whole thing in the trash ?
asciilifeform: what is the use of the box without these parts ?
phf: manually forcing cpu to run in save as much battery mode
asciilifeform: ick
asciilifeform: go and gentoo on that.
asciilifeform: what rubbish.
phf: well, that's why i'm back on mac os x in defeat
phf: i gave up because integrated intel card and ati card combination required some fancy grub PEEK/POKE combination, and i didn't want to do grub
asciilifeform: i would have said 'there is a less atrocious machine, the legendary x60' but now i WON'T ...
phf: oddly enough doing that same PEEK/POKE after the linux framebuffer kicked in would blankscreen the machine.
asciilifeform: dual gpu boxes will never work, don't even bother.
phf: i'd probably persevere but it was interfering with my work, only so much you can do with cli emacs, without a proper browser
phf: mircea_popescu: extreme case of "tom knight and the lisp machine", doing things with no understanding hoping to produce desired effect
asciilifeform: at some point (not any time soon, i've elementarily no time) i will replace the thermal paste in the x60 with industrial diamond
asciilifeform: it often helps.
asciilifeform: but srsly wtf.
phf: i have a borrowed carbon x1 that i'm hoping to make use of. guy was running ubuntu on it, and clean slackware install at the very least doesn't exhibit particularly aberrant behaviors
phf: but the whole exercise feels a bit hair shirt
asciilifeform: i draw the line at 'randomly crashes during compiles'
asciilifeform: this is not tolerable.
phf: maybe i can get away with running 10.9 for the next five years at which point b-a will have its own scheme-81 clean room, yeah?
asciilifeform: woah that thing runs at 80c.
asciilifeform: (at 50% cpu utilization)
phf: well, yeah, all those hoops i jumped through, compiling anything non-trivial would kick in fans at 60000
asciilifeform: at least your fans ~work~
phf: ahaha
phf: i see
asciilifeform: libreboot just sort of runs it at mid-rpm at all times.
asciilifeform: and hopes for the best.
asciilifeform: this immediately tells me something about the authors
asciilifeform: namely, that they do not actually use linux (i.e. gentoo) on their boxes
asciilifeform: or the idiocy would have become immediately apparent
asciilifeform: as it dies in the first 20 min. of setup, during the very first compiles
asciilifeform: l0l and randomly looking for this, found something that could be straight out of mircea_popescu's zoo,
asciilifeform: https://www.aspiescentral.com/threads/hello.13236
assbot: Hello | AspiesCentral.com ... ( http://bit.ly/215ej2U )
asciilifeform: 'My laptop is a Thinkpad x60 running the LibreBoot bios and Debian GNU/Linux, it overheats alot, especially when viewing Star Trek outtakes of Captain Picard. It survives though, even at 90 Celsius... It should die, but it's strong.'
asciilifeform: 'Basically I've accepted a life without physical friends, except family.'
phf: ahaha
pete_dushenski: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7O7ia86qD_Y/VtJ2uau5siI/AAAAAAAAktI/pNIw6qWK0qQ/s640/lSWpaqG.jpg << kim jong furry
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/215eqf0 )
asciilifeform: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9816994 << l0ltr0n
assbot: MacOS is the new Windows | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1QPWiGv )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3196 @ 0.00058001 = 1.8537 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27204 @ 0.00057916 = 15.7555 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/3df1b14e966c727a62ef37f7b04ab97f/tumblr_meo8gnZO971qcl6pmo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/215mkFb )
BingoBoingo relishes in that feeing of power that follows one's presence ending a turf war.
BingoBoingo: the turf, one well lit front yard. The combatants a vocal orange neighborhood cat and a fox
BingoBoingo: I go out front to see what the fuss is and the cat shoots out of the tree and under a car while the fox shoots off into a the park
phf: BingoBoingo sets own yard on fire to settle a long running dispute between cat and fox in favor of man
BingoBoingo: Nah, just smoke a cigarette and pissed on some bushes
BingoBoingo: They gotta understand that when man can mark territory with their weight in piss it is man's world.
phf: i'm always reminded of that movie where i guy was living among wolves, every morning he'd drink a lot of coffee and make rounds
BingoBoingo: Well coffee helps when keeping up with all the rest of nature
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CcWsxw8UMAAI2El.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1pjL2pr )
phf: that evokes images of a decisive cup, rationed coffee as a boost for man's will in harsh conditions. most of the coffee experience i'm surrounded with is not like that at all. office workers on a litre a day, hipsters with artisanal pourovers, three jobs just to keep up crowd on a dunken donuts extra large. not much keeping up with nature
mircea_popescu: you should see the coffee here.
BingoBoingo: Wait, you don't drink it all by the pot?
mircea_popescu: nah, i drink a pot of coffee in like a month
phf: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/08/04/t1larg.business.coffee.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1pjLkwG )
phf: i don't mind the idea, but, if you need this much coffee, why not just take amphetamines?
BingoBoingo: phf: Because that would be bad for my sobriety
phf: i thought aa mostly object to other substances only as much as they trigger alcohol abuse. unless you have a history of mixing alcohol and speed, there shouldn't be any crossover
BingoBoingo: How would I know if I did have a history of that?
phf: some good parties you go to
phf: it was mostly a rhetorical question, i just think that once you cross certain line with a substance, perhaps it's worthwhile to try something different. but since coffee guzzling is mostly done from lack of attention, perhaps it's not a good idea
BingoBoingo: Well, supposedly coffee is good for the liver
phf: in a correlation/causation world of pop medicine here's ten things that you need to know about new use for an old drug that's all the rage
BingoBoingo: Well, the mechanics make sense
phf: so does any other arbitrary chain of biochemical events that some team somewhere decides to investigate. it's the mutual interaction of those events that makes the entire system not amenable to reasoning
phf: throw in statistical ranges and often shoddy studies and you might as well go quoting ayurvedic doctors
mircea_popescu: well nobody seriously wants to contemplate that hey, 19 haplogroups, 100+ subgroups each, subgroups of subgroups, and serious test of "is coffee good or bad" needs 1mn+ subjects
mircea_popescu is vaguely bracing himself for discovery that tobacco essential for healthy, cca 2050 or so
BingoBoingo: Well, grandpa did smoke into his late 60's to early 70's
phf: from the study of dynamic systems, "researches put more wood on kindling, create big fire. more wood is good for fire!" "researches put more wood on massive fire, fire suffocates. less wood is good for fire!"
BingoBoingo wonders what could be so harmful about drinking less coffee con a daily basis than I often did vodka
mircea_popescu: !up b6
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol so apparently r/btc moderator turned out to be con man, took donations to hash, kept donations since classic doomed anyway.
BingoBoingo not surprised
BingoBoingo not sure if news
mircea_popescu: kinda so-so.
mircea_popescu: notrly. more like a logline at best.
phf: BingoBoingo: oh i wasn't saying it's harmful, i was saying that when coffee stops working, perhaps it's time to take amphetamines, since it's a cleaner and longer productive high. of course with a history of substance abuse of any kind it is perhaps not a good idea (same people who drink coffee by the litre, start eating amphetamines, etc.)
phf: but i'm going to drop the subject, i'm being tedious and i need to pass out anyway
mircea_popescu: phf amphetamines are not a good idea in any case.
BingoBoingo: Eh, coffee still works
mircea_popescu: contrary to a whole lot of gargle, the list of +ev usage is ~empty.
b6: Oh my, i have voice
mircea_popescu: so you do. who're you ?
b6: Just someone interested in bitcoins, and related interests.
mircea_popescu: aha.
b6: Found you guys in a weird way, not gunna lie.
b6: Through the most recent f2pool ddos, to be exact.
ben_vulpes: how through a ddos did you get here?
ben_vulpes: b6: ^^
mircea_popescu: how through an english did you speak that
b6: Icebreaker was claiming something about coming from La serenissima
b6: Googled that, found MP's article, googles them, found this channel
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: gutter cascadian lingo
ben_vulpes: straight from the streets yo
ben_vulpes: homie
phf: all dat dank ass portland weed
ben_vulpes: b6: what is an icebreaker?
ben_vulpes: phf: i humbly bring lolz: http://www.everetthousehealingcenter.com/
assbot: Everett House Healing Center ... ( http://bit.ly/21uRprj )
b6: The guy on BTC-T claiming he shut down f2pool this week
b6: In response to them allowing miners to use classic
mircea_popescu: and what's btc-t ?
mircea_popescu: anyway b6 make yourself a key get in teh wot.
BingoBoingo: !up eth2
eth2: ohai
BingoBoingo: hai thur
eth2: i guess you've had quite a lot of visitors today haha
eth2: them logfiles
BingoBoingo: it happens
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00057919 = 6.7765 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49305 @ 0.00058034 = 28.6137 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57850 @ 0.00058034 = 33.5727 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54078 @ 0.00058165 = 31.4545 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8622 @ 0.00058345 = 5.0305 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 698 @ 0.00261992 = 1.8287 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00058301 = 11.7768 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65016 @ 0.00058612 = 38.1072 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25283 @ 0.00057919 = 14.6437 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: 'Even without adding D-Bus to the default runlevel it often will get started by D-Bus dependent services. This should explain why D-Bus mysteriously gets started even though it has not been added formally added to a system runlevel.'
asciilifeform: (gentoo docs)
asciilifeform: and apparently emacs will no longer build without it.
asciilifeform: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-992146.html << fascinating read
assbot: Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Uninstalling dbus and *kits (to Unfacilitate Remote Seats) ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQ8p6l )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00058648 = 28.2097 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: by the author of https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7558880.html#7558880
assbot: Gentoo Forums :: View topic - Air-Gapped Gentoo Install, Tentative ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQ8rv1 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11375 @ 0.0005892 = 6.7022 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: interesting stuff asciilifeform
punkman: "basically, Grsecurity fixes what Linus leaves open and unprotected for whichever reason in the GNU/Linux kernel, and that seems to annoy the genius very much... It's a real though subdued war out there, and Grsecurity had a moment of mild failure for a few days, exactly after a major contribution by, wait, wait!... by the Dear Leader himself..."
asciilifeform: http://www.croatiafidelis.hr << herr rovis himself.
assbot: Udruga Croatia Fidelis ... ( http://bit.ly/1QQ9drP )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can you get him in here somehow ??
asciilifeform: 'Somebody seems to have been joking with portage, and not in a nice way (maybe they aim at hurting the feelings of some pizza delivery guy, because that's not illegal like hurting animals)... '
asciilifeform: 'Most of those are conditional dependencies (useflag ? ...), and I checked and all of those with dbus ? sys-apps/dbus) have -dbus or no dbus at all in the output of emerge -p. But if I try and check dependencies on those that do depend on dbus...: ...it appears that if gtk+ with useflag X can't work without accessibility/at-spi2-atk ...'
asciilifeform: '... why should, say, Emacs depend on dbus? '
asciilifeform: 'Do I really have to be forced to use accessibility if I want just the gtk gui? I don't have the time needed to learn to modify ebuild, and keep a separate overlay... I want to use Gentoo, not keep building it forever. Do I really have to accomodate for remote seat to be able to use Gentoo? '
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171400 @ 0.0005796 = 99.3434 BTC [-] {6}
asciilifeform: gold from the commentz:
asciilifeform: 'Launching Tor Browser Bundle for Linux in /tmp/tor-browser_en-US XPCOMGlueLoad error for file /tmp/tor-browser_en-US/Browser/libxul.so: libdbus-glib-1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory'
asciilifeform: ^ 'tor browser' eats dbus
asciilifeform: rovis reminds me more than ANYONE of dragos ruiu.
asciilifeform: but there are really not so many folks soldiering on to keep the last usable linux quasi-alive.
asciilifeform: 'go to war with the army you have.'
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418055 >>>>> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1402410 ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 07:22:50; ben_vulpes: phf: i humbly bring lolz: http://www.everetthousehealingcenter.com/
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2016 20:28:39; asciilifeform: or everett's solution !
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418017 << there are devil knows how many people who would be on dope if they had any way of getting to it.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 06:37:37; phf: it was mostly a rhetorical question, i just think that once you cross certain line with a substance, perhaps it's worthwhile to try something different. but since coffee guzzling is mostly done from lack of attention, perhaps it's not a good idea
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418038 << does mircea_popescu remember the sleep ad libitum thread ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 07:13:02; mircea_popescu: contrary to a whole lot of gargle, the list of +ev usage is ~empty.
asciilifeform: yes, it is better to sleep ad libitum, and wash yourself in the morning with fresh virgin tears and panda milk.
asciilifeform: than to take dope.
asciilifeform: and works best on a dirigible, also.
asciilifeform: caffeine etc. users are not typically faced with a mircea_popescutronic choice of 'should i dope or should i sleep how much i want and bathe in virgin tears.' more often, it is a 'i WILL get 4 hrs. of sleep and there is nothing to be done about it. will it be 4 hr and then i fall asleep at my desk and get sacked or 4 hr of being reasonably awake.'
asciilifeform: *4 hr and
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-08-2014#808005 << related thread.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-08-2014 03:08:03; asciilifeform: busy as a bee << funny that they show an idiot sow scrubbing, and not, e.g, paul erdos crapping out theorems
asciilifeform bbl
trinque: wtf happened to freenode this weekend?
trinque: deedbot- was connecting to adam.freenode.net successfully, then never appearing here.
trinque: switched to the chat.freenode.net rotation, joins.
trinque: https://freenode.net/ << "Making freenode great again..." lolwut
assbot: freenode - supporting free and open source communities since 1998! ... ( http://bit.ly/1T45tDn )
PeterL: trinque: I wonder if we ever get gossipd to replace freenode, will we still have these sorts of connection problems?
mircea_popescu: not globally.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418119 << quite psychanalizable, ftr. notice the spurt of "make x great again" ever since 2015 or so.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 14:36:29; trinque: https://freenode.net/ << "Making freenode great again..." lolwut
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, water infrastructure has decayed to the point nobody involved EVNE KNOWS you can't drink from lake then switch to river
mircea_popescu: and new york has been failing to maintain it's nuclear power plants.
mircea_popescu: think about it - by the time a nuclear plant starts crying out for lack of maintenance, how badly maintained was everything else ?
mircea_popescu: and for how long ?
PeterL: It wasn't clear in the story, is the nuclear problem in New York leaking into their water system and poisoning everybody?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418089 << how lol.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:31:04; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can you get him in here somehow ??
mircea_popescu: PeterL no, the water thing is re michigan.
PeterL: yeah, I know about MI water, but NY is leaking into their river, are they taking river water into their drinking water?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla jurov either of you doing on the side the gfs of any croatian nazi leader doods ? that might know this guy ? lol.
mircea_popescu: PeterL you are aware NOBODY KNOWS what ny water does, not anymore. shit in there that hasn't been touched in 50+ years.
jurov: doing what?
mircea_popescu: it's "unmaintainable" ie, unmaintained. once it goes, it goes. start trucking water bottles for 5mn people.
mircea_popescu: jurov "doing on the side" means, fucking, as an extra, other than current relationship.
jurov: there's a nzi leader in slovakia but im not doing his bfs
PeterL: I guess my question is: where does NY city pull it's drinking water from? Is it at all connected to the Hudson River?
mircea_popescu: i do not believe anyone alive today can answer this question cogently.
PeterL: millions of people live in new york, and they all just assume somebody else is keeping their stuff running for them
PeterL: world would be better off if they all get sick and die
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418093 << accessibility , for the record, is another dns/ntp/font bs.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:35:07; asciilifeform: 'Do I really have to be forced to use accessibility if I want just the gtk gui? I don't have the time needed to learn to modify ebuild, and keep a separate overlay... I want to use Gentoo, not keep building it forever. Do I really have to accomodate for remote seat to be able to use Gentoo? '
thestringpuller: PeterL: prob why they used to make a lot of escape from new york movies.
mircea_popescu: PeterL no argument there.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418097 << doh.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:36:35; asciilifeform: ^ 'tor browser' eats dbus
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418108 << sfyl.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 13:45:59; asciilifeform: yes, it is better to sleep ad libitum, and wash yourself in the morning with fresh virgin tears and panda milk.
thestringpuller: 5k more blocks on node
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418117 << they have to put in some emergency patches once people here have started blocking dns autoresolution.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 14:35:18; trinque: deedbot- was connecting to adam.freenode.net successfully, then never appearing here.
mircea_popescu: sorry, should have announced trilema article in advance for cia/nsa/blablabla.
mircea_popescu: i must have misplaced my copy of the agreement.
PeterL: in other news, my trb node (syncing since January) is now up to July 2014
mircea_popescu: nb.
deedbot-: [serialized delusions] Embedded Common Lisp for Eulora - http://explo.yt/post/2016/02/29/Embedded-Common-Lisp-for-Eulora
jurov: ;;later tell fghj ^
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 5.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b1
phf: i think emacs has dbus support to do fluff like message notification, last time i built it on linux it built without dbus just fine, but i prefer xlib/athena widgets (i know ascii hates them), since i basically disable menu/scrollbar/etc. not sure if maybe gtk widgets now have dbus hardwired
phf: of course fact that emacs supports dbus but not a generic ffi goes back to thread about rms and wreckers
asciilifeform: not simply 'supports'.
asciilifeform: pulls in.
asciilifeform: i am seriously fucking pissed
asciilifeform: because, among other things, i mistakenly blamed openbsd for this.
phf: you mean in gentoo parlance? an emacs ebuild doesn't respect -dbus flag, and pulls it unconditionally?
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2012-08/msg00014.html << the rot goes way back.
assbot: bug#12112: 24.1.50; Starting emacs without dbus ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPVHwN )
asciilifeform: http://changelog.complete.org/archives/9317-has-linux-lost-its-way-comments-prompt-a-debian-developer-to-revisit-freebsd-after-20-years << in other nyooz.
assbot: “Has Linux lost its way?” comments prompt a Debian developer to revisit FreeBSD after 20 years | The Changelog ... ( http://bit.ly/1LPWGNH )
asciilifeform: well, oldz
asciilifeform: or nm, i think this is in the logz.
asciilifeform: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=108616&start=60#p577538 << far more interesting.
assbot: Debian User Forums • View topic - Grsecurity/Pax installation on Debian GNU/Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/24x4gZ4 )
asciilifeform: ^ moar rovis
asciilifeform: ;;google "emacs without dbus"
gribble: Re: Emacs insists on starting dbus? - Lists - GNU: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-07/msg00715.html>; Re: Emacs insists on starting dbus? - Lists - GNU: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2012-07/msg00687.html>; bug#12112: 24.1.50; Starting emacs without dbus - Lists - GNU: <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2012-08/msg00014.html>
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b4
phf: tuomo valkonen has been ranting about that stuff back in 2005 or so
phf: "why is this freedesktop shit being compiled in with no way of disabling it"
phf: his (and mine) pet peve at the time was mandatory freetype (i think that linux's dodgy hinting and antialiasing are worse then running it aliased and at the time i wanted bitmap fonts everywhere)
phf: not to mention that freetype pulls in the whole dodgy freedesktop stack. why do i need 5 different libraries to support arabic ligatures?
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: you don't understand universalism.
mircea_popescu: the reasoning goes, that if arabs have no way of knowing they're arabs, such as for instance if the use of THEIR script happens transparently everywhere, then they won't be able to maintain a sense of nationality and consequently jena bush's tush will remain unmolested.
phf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmpMO2dJQ6Q
assbot: Barney - I Love You (Extended Play 15 times back-to-back!!) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1RfEi2m )
phf: ^
mircea_popescu: this of course means you must support arabic ligature in your kkkapp made specifically to scrawl white supremacist nonsense on virtual toilets in gta4.
mircea_popescu: but it also means you needn't worry about it - as a consumer, it'll just be done for you, automagically!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45397 @ 0.00059164 = 26.8587 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: and to take the discussion up a coupla levels of abstraction : this is not a technical problem in any sense. in fact, the only thing that a classification of problems into technical and otherwise says is that ~the classifier~ is broken in the head.
mircea_popescu: or if you prefer, poorly socialised. still entertains the delusion that he'll make a nice woman out of marble and invent a lock that'll keep rats out of his granary.
mircea_popescu: !up deupork
asciilifeform: so at this point i'm satisfied that rms either 1) does not actually use an x60 machine with 'libreboot' ~~or~~ does not program.
mircea_popescu: all he does is prepare conference slides. for 20+ yearsn ow
asciilifeform: proving that it is eminently possible to be eaten alive by fungus ~without~ working directly for usg.
asciilifeform: fungus is available to all.
mircea_popescu: ie, old age ?
asciilifeform: not only.
asciilifeform: (rms was, what, 40, 20 yrs ago ?)
asciilifeform: my current understanding is that he didn't really psychologically weather the hurd thing.
mircea_popescu: what thng again ?
asciilifeform: he had a thing that was supposed to be what linux was
mircea_popescu: oh
asciilifeform: called gnu hurd
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: for various reasons, rms et al were unable to produce a usable kernel.
asciilifeform: then linus appeared, and did
asciilifeform: and 'stole' the gnu userland, to go with it
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: various reasons = being flaming imbeciles with no inclination towards work
mircea_popescu: he basically saw himself as a sort of jimbo wales. except forgot the part where tardpedia can contain anything, epistula non erubiscit, but the compiler doth complain.
asciilifeform: as i recall, the original plan was to use some bsd variant
mircea_popescu: and if a community vote is held to silence the complaints for racist and whatrever,
asciilifeform: and rms wrote, later, that not doing this was a catastrophic mistake
mircea_popescu: the system just hangs.
asciilifeform: instead, he went with 'mach', which was owned by - iirc - CMU, and stuck in legal limbo
asciilifeform: and while the latter hashed out, the project withered.
asciilifeform: so no, this was not a pediwikian sort of catastrophe, but worse.
mircea_popescu: environment not yet ripe for "fuck you - breaking the law by license!" alexandrine solution
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: it being the 80s and shit.
asciilifeform: it was the '80s, and the man was 'dependently wealthy.'
asciilifeform: (rms won some sort of prize for gcc, but it was only enough for a few yrs, apparently, and parasites helped to eat it faster)
asciilifeform: i do not know where it went, but afaik he still lives in a repurposed closet at mit.
mircea_popescu: afaik.
mircea_popescu: "being flaming imbeciles with no inclination towards work".
punkman: relevant http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384117 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2016 12:42:16; punkman: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/history_of_gcc_development.shtml
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't see the 'no inclination towards work' thing
asciilifeform: rms was working on catastrophically broken priors, but worked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60450 @ 0.00059164 = 35.7646 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: interesting, from punkman's link:
asciilifeform: 'Even when the SC is asked to decide something, they never go to RMS when they can help it, because he's so unaware of modern real-world technical issues and the bigger picture. It's far, far better to continue postponing a question than to ask it, when RMS is involved, because he will make a snap decision based on his own bizarre technical ideas, and then never change his mind in time for th
asciilifeform: He can be convinced. Eventually. It took the SC over a year to explain and demonstrate that Java bytecode could not easily be used to subvert the GPL, therefore permitting GCJ to be checked in to the official repository was okay. I'm sure that someday we'll be using C++ in core code. Just not anytime soon.'
asciilifeform: e new decision to be worth anything.
asciilifeform: ^ rms when seen from the gnome pit
asciilifeform: stung from all sides by vermin who want him to 'get with the times', is it any wonder rms turned to stone ?
asciilifeform: 'real-world technical issues and the bigger picture.'
asciilifeform: 'his own bizarre technical ideas'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how does a man work who can't support himself ?
punkman: ah there'[s more http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/index.shtml
assbot: Richard Stallman ... ( http://bit.ly/1UupnXv )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how does prisoner in butugychag work ?
mircea_popescu: masturbation is not work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform with the axe.
asciilifeform: it is when you're masturbating ~someone else~
mircea_popescu: mno.
asciilifeform: at gunpoint
punkman: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/philosopher.shtml#Lab%20Dweller
assbot: Part I. Philosopher ... ( http://bit.ly/1Uupylz )
punkman: "Here at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, he has made his home - literally, sleeping for 13 years on a narrow cot in a cubbyhole that resembles a nest, littered with candy wrappers, food containers, papers and magazines. Garbage tumbles off every surface, piles up in corners, allowing only a narrow track through which to navigate a life."
mircea_popescu: also, the proper quote is "modern real-world technical issues and the bigger picture". gotta get that MODERN in there, it is a key element of the belief system of idiots that the problems they encounter are novel.
asciilifeform: http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/prophet.shtml#An attempt of hostile takeover of glib << l0l drepper gold
assbot: Part IV. Stallman as a Prophet ... ( http://bit.ly/1VNbn9V )
asciilifeform: pretty sure this was in the logz at some point
mircea_popescu: wtf is with all these urls with spaces in them
asciilifeform: 'Stallman recently tried what I would call a hostile takeover of the glibc development. He tried to conspire behind my back and persuade the other main developers to take control so that in the end he is in control and can dictate whatever pleases him. This attempt failed ... '
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nfi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this was in the log.
asciilifeform: yeah iirc.
phf: is that drepper quote?
mircea_popescu: yeah.
phf: back against the wall
mircea_popescu: anyway, the ridiculousness of form aside, i can readily see the twin point that rms is catastrophically blind and strategically worthless.
mircea_popescu: enough illustration - he went to fucking glbse conference.
trinque: rms strikes me as a few rounds of imitation back from poettering and that ethereum kid
asciilifeform: srsly?
mircea_popescu: yes srsly.
asciilifeform: glbse?!
mircea_popescu: !s from:nefario stallman
assbot: 0 results for 'from:nefario stallman' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Anefario+stallman
mircea_popescu: pff
asciilifeform: 'In 1990, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation granted Stallman a MacArthur fellowship. The grant, a $240,000 which is more then $500K in 2000 dollars provided Stallman with a source of income and health insurance for five years. That made it less necessary to do consulting work to support himself. Although RMS now can devote more time to the writing GNU software, but actually h
trinque: playing the role of slovenly hacker guy who chews his toenails
asciilifeform: e was almost 40 and his best years as a programmer were in the past. Programming is a young men game and such grants usually are a clear signs of a starting decay.
asciilifeform: 'Unpleasant surprises followed. As leader of the GNU Project, Stallman experienced the first fork of Emacs in 1991. As we will see below by 1993, the GNU Project's completely lost the initiative due to an inability to deliver a working POSIX kernel. In March, 1993, a Wired magazine article by Simson Garfinkel described the GNU Project as "bogged down". GCC fork occurred a several years late
asciilifeform: r (1997) and was the last straw... '
trinque: same as any other chief scientist or wannabe religious nut leader
asciilifeform: nobody lives forever.
asciilifeform: some folks just spend longer time walking around as a zombie before burial, than others.
mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/0H4QRZ4.txt << flavour of history, sep 2013.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1VNbQc1 )
asciilifeform: so we're taking nefario's word for it ?
mircea_popescu: the guy was actually there.
phf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pube5Aynsls
assbot: Soulja Boy dance, MIT style - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VNc7fe )
mircea_popescu: to put this in proper perspective : "genjix" is the garbage-eating, underage-cousin-pimping, imbecile on a stick amir taaki.
mircea_popescu: stallman has reduced himself to the position where street urchins are pulling the "i'm paying you, stand up to attention" trick on him
mircea_popescu: in 2013.
kakobrekla: afaik it wasnt 'glbse conference' per se, however nefario had a talk there as well as stallman. https://sites.google.com/a/bitcoin2012.com/homepage/speakers / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN6Q--zqroM / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmPD_YSQ--k
assbot: Speakers - Bitcoin Conference London 15-16 September 2012 ... ( http://bit.ly/1VNcd6D )
assbot: Bitcoin 2012 London: Richard Stallman - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VNcdmT )
assbot: Nefario - Bitcoin capital markets - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1VNcdmX )
mircea_popescu: and i do mean street urchins quite literally, the sort of mostly-nude eastern flesh that'd follow europeans begging for candy, either as a freebie or in trade for butthole.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla tell you what, if maddof has a talk there as well as obama, it'll be the ponzi conference.
asciilifeform: public toilet is, well, public
mircea_popescu: not how this works.
mircea_popescu: you have to BUY A LICENSE to run a public house and be protected by this "publichouse" theory.
mircea_popescu: and i sold them no such license.
asciilifeform: rms, as i understand, goes to all kinds of crud ('phreeee palestine!1111') to play at relevancy
asciilifeform: *relevance
phf: well, it's an opportunity for him to get his talking points in
asciilifeform: some intern, likely, told him a five minute spiel re: bitcoin
mircea_popescu: well, it's an opportunity for him to make nice for 500 bux.
asciilifeform: and he looked up 'bitcoin conference' and went.
mircea_popescu: but, back to the original point : catastrophic blindness and strategic worthlessness. the embodiment thereof, this is it.
kakobrekla: rms was on nefarios conference as much as nefario was on rms conference
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: but i suspect that mircea_popescu is operating on the 'spoon of shit in barrel of wine' theorem
kakobrekla: aha
asciilifeform: but did rms even know that he was bathing in shit ?
kakobrekla: if i had to guess mps argument here; 'shit doesnt know/care about itself bathing in shit, only actual person does'
mircea_popescu: well no, actually, it's moreover related to
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-02-2016#1416038 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2016 14:55:06; mircea_popescu: everything is on the exam. including stuff from the future.
mircea_popescu: oh, he "didn't know" what was in front of him ? that's the definition of blindness. and he didn't know WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ?
mircea_popescu: well wtf, i get the same results from my dog. i don't make the dog a strategist. FOR THIS REASON.
mircea_popescu: if dog could see future, dog would also be general.
asciilifeform: actually rms is the most consistently and accurately long-term doom prophet i'm personally aware of.
asciilifeform: beats the shit out of everyone else.
mircea_popescu: prophets are not strategists.
mircea_popescu: they're a sort of singers.
asciilifeform: ~accurate~ prophet.
mircea_popescu: ~good~ singers.
kakobrekla: yeah, his talks have been a carbon copy for a very long time on all the confs.
asciilifeform: so what's the operative difference ?
mircea_popescu: between what and what!
asciilifeform: prophet / strategist
asciilifeform: is it that the latter tells you what to do ?
mircea_popescu: listen to prophet, be entertained ; follow strategist, survive.
asciilifeform: well yes.
asciilifeform: but i was asking, what they do differently.
mircea_popescu: because why, anything can be expressed in pascal ?
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: remember, i don't deal in inexpressables. or i'd be hanging at the dirigible club with mircea_popescu, and not here in this ditch
asciilifeform: i'm stuck with expressable.
mircea_popescu: you'll have to one day tell me what's the "operative difference" between peach and pear, but not in the sense of "one has a wooden pit". instead, in the sense of "what do the trees do differently"
mircea_popescu: and i presume "everything" doesn't suit you.
asciilifeform: i can arrange this but the answer will be a few MB long.
asciilifeform: but certainly not inexpressable.
mircea_popescu: don't flatter yourself. you can't arrange this, and the answer would provably be > petabytes long.
asciilifeform: MB if we get to #include from the genus.
mircea_popescu: but you UNDERSTAND the meta point, which makes you lie to yourself about your capacities, because you really really want things to be a certain way.
asciilifeform: otherwise mircea_popescu has it.
mircea_popescu: so basically this discussion just became 'explain this to me, and if you do i'll just pretend the explanation doesn't exist"
asciilifeform: actually i have a suitably grim picture of the capacities.
asciilifeform: having actually been tasked with attempting something quite like the peach/pear before.
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: note in any case that "operative" in that context specifically seeks "wooden pit" type answers.
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu misunderstood, i have no intention of pretending that the inexpressable distinction does not exist. merely stating that i am not equipped to deal in it.
mircea_popescu: and who is.
asciilifeform: possibly mircea_popescu ?
asciilifeform: whose profession it is.
mircea_popescu: sadly, nope.
asciilifeform: ( strategist )
mircea_popescu: o, it is ? maybe when i'm having a good day.
phf: goes back to cause/purpose thing
mircea_popescu: now, granted, in re the trees, while it stands that you can't do it, i suspect you're right in suspecting it CAN be done.
mircea_popescu: which makes it perhaps a substantially different bojum.
asciilifeform: i can't personally, with own hands, put a satellite in orbit, either.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: but i know people who put satellites in orbit ; i know no one who made the answer to the tree question.
mircea_popescu: "step towards" is you know... another ledge.
asciilifeform: the tree question is approx. where rocketry was in 1930.
mircea_popescu: mebbe.
mircea_popescu: note that cold fusion has been approx where rocketry was in 1930 for a good century now.
asciilifeform: mno.
asciilifeform: it was where transmutation was in 1500.
mircea_popescu: what's the operative difference ?
mircea_popescu: they're both where virgin teen is on prom night. is it going to be a good experience/marriage/life ? who knows ?
mircea_popescu: who even cares ? take it off!
asciilifeform: the difference between 'needs moar engineering' and charlatanry that can absorb $trillion with not a blip of result ?
mircea_popescu: note that mom and dad of virgin teen can liberally hold either of these views, interchangeably.
asciilifeform: also fusion is very much the wrong term.
asciilifeform: you can go and fuse in your kitchen right now.
asciilifeform: (see, e.g., farnsworth's device)
asciilifeform: the boojum is ~ +EV fusion ~.
mircea_popescu: i think that's what the "cold" part is trying to suggest.
mircea_popescu: otherwise... all sorts of "more expensive than it's worth" methods are known
asciilifeform: you can also cold fuse right now.
asciilifeform: whack palladium deuteride with hammer.
mircea_popescu: in a different take of "cold".
mircea_popescu: ie, not high temperature, cold. but the meaning contemplated in the expression is, i suspect, quite, "+ev, ie cold"
mircea_popescu: as in cold ownage.
asciilifeform: well there are two schools of fusion crackpottery, the 'hot' (tokamak, but really is just refinement of hbomb codes) and 'cold'.
asciilifeform: both have delusions of '+ev any day now'.
mircea_popescu: i like the laser pumping people.
mircea_popescu: lasers are fun.
asciilifeform: the 'hot' folks managed to strangle the 'cold' for the usg pig trough fight, yes.
asciilifeform: the laser thing is really the quest for the 'clean thermonuke' in disguise.
asciilifeform: (i.e. thermonuke that doesn't require a fissile initiator, ergo no need for refining U)
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: usg has an interesting relationship with the thing
asciilifeform: on one hand, it is the last thing a lizard wants to see appear.
asciilifeform: anywhere.
asciilifeform: on other hand, nobody can resist asking the question.
mircea_popescu: "ideally, it would want it not to exist ; but if it must exist, it wants to be the only one to ever have it"
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: in a very "sf" take of the thing - actually workable, and perhaps miniaturizable laser-initiated compression would put the nuclear issue on about the same terms the war on drugs finds itself.
mircea_popescu: ie, anyoen can make drugs and you won't be able to detect them and fuck you.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: "here's where washington used to be, that crater to the left. oh, you never saw that 100cc of methane gas, did oyu ? awww!"
asciilifeform: and it won't cost much, either.
mircea_popescu: shoulda looked for methane instead of 2,3-blablatronium.
asciilifeform: quite possibly everything else that usg does is preparation for this exam.
mircea_popescu: unlike the qc thing, i can't even say this is not in the cards.
asciilifeform: since '53 or whenever ulam realized that you don't actually need the fissile firecracker.
mircea_popescu: besides. gotta explain all the other lifeless planets out there ~somehow~.
asciilifeform: i can see hitler and dulles nodding to one another, 'yeah it'll be better to create a planet of castrated zombies'
mircea_popescu: i don't see that better.
asciilifeform: ~they~ see it.
mircea_popescu: as the romanian expression goes, "apai atunci nu-i prea vad in clar"
asciilifeform: i'll take the lifeless crater, plox.
mircea_popescu: literally, "thus therefore, i don't see them to clearly", but that "not see clearly" really means, "it won't end up well for them". sort-of like prophet not seeing your future too clearly.
mircea_popescu: "in clar" also denotes plaintext, ie, immediately accessible. no need to explain and mediate their carcass into being, as it were.
asciilifeform: yudkowsky, of all people, wrote some story where there was a planet where they learned to make fusion device with ancient greek level tech. and the survivers evolved. into something strange.
asciilifeform: (into some monstrously happy/dopy/cooperative beast)
asciilifeform: at any rate, even orwell had his fingers on it
asciilifeform: !s you and the atomic bomb
assbot: 16 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb
asciilifeform: as in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923509 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 07:02:37; asciilifeform: 'Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to p
mircea_popescu: fortunately, it is not MERELY the atomic bomb that is rare and costly and as difficult to produce as a battleship.
mircea_popescu: ~CARING~ about the otherwise irrelevant item is ALSO rare and costly and difficult to produce. moreso than a battleship.
mircea_popescu: hence why the meanwhile-barbarianized new yorkers couldn't care less if the nuke plant blows.
mircea_popescu: so what if it does ? more varied tail for the lot of them!
asciilifeform: phun phakt, seems like 'genkernel' won't allow you to disable flag SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEYRING .
asciilifeform: y'know, the one in http://perception-point.io/2016/01/14/analysis-and-exploitation-of-a-linux-kernel-vulnerability-cve-2016-0728 .
assbot: Analysis and Exploitation of a Linux Kernel Vulnerability (CVE-2016-0728) | Perception Point ... ( http://bit.ly/1WSlv1p )
mircea_popescu: but at any rate, notice how the "worldwide peace" movement seamlessly morphed into the "antiatomic movement" seamlessly morphed into the "ecology" movement.
mircea_popescu: and recall tlp's wunderwaffenwords,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was a kgb golem, and this is amply documented.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker, there's some ad on his page that blocks the loading.
asciilifeform: l0l i thought you had his complete worx cached.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/SzW0e#selection-181.0-100.74 will have to do
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: You Are The 98% ... ( http://bit.ly/1WSlL0i )
phf: i think the "advanced user" workflow is to pick up genkernel config, menuconfig it, put the config back into genkernel, recompile
asciilifeform: phf: well yes, but the result is usually that the compile barfs
phf: in before asciilifeform finally goes all LFS
phf: ah
asciilifeform: lfs ?
phf: linux from scratch
asciilifeform: ah
asciilifeform: that'd be merely gentoo without portage.
asciilifeform: wtf is the point.
trinque: decent as a learning tool and not much else.
trinque did it once
asciilifeform: i'm beginning to understand why the enemy is not particularly scared of trb.
asciilifeform: we don't actually have a kernel that isn't fully, certifiably porous.
asciilifeform: the mice have been in the granary for... 20 yrs ?
asciilifeform: and there is scarcely any grain at all to be found there.
asciilifeform: only mouse shit.
asciilifeform: and we (or at least i) are still baking bread from it.
asciilifeform: because there is not another granary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86051 @ 0.00058627 = 50.4491 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: http://www.cvedetails.com/product/163/Openbsd-Openbsd.html?vendor_id=97 << >> http://www.cvedetails.com/product/47/Linux-Linux-Kernel.html?vendor_id=33
assbot: Openbsd Openbsd : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed reports ... ( http://bit.ly/1TLLuYK )
assbot: Linux Linux Kernel : CVE security vulnerabilities, versions and detailed reports ... ( http://bit.ly/1TLLuZ0 )
trinque: yes, I understand I just said "this food has less shit in it!"
trinque: worth mentioning too that one's referring to an entire *usable* operating system and the other to only a kernel
trinque: I personally would far sooner deal with a shitty package management system than a swiss cheese kernel
trinque: and obviously the hardware's all rotten too; I get that, but that's not an argument in favor of linux.
trinque: tbh bitching about the openbsd ports tree is a matter of having missed the point; pester the maintainer or become him if you want something changed.
asciilifeform: trinque: 'want something changed' is not the right description for granary full of mouse shit.
trinque: actually most of the remote code execution exploits in recent OpenBSD were the fault of X
asciilifeform: kernel exploit is not usually a remote but more privesc thing, anyway
trinque: it seems to have done pretty well across the board
trinque: whether that's due to it being a less prevalent target, I do not know.
asciilifeform: i have a brick here that also did pretty well.
asciilifeform: no remote exploits for it !1111
trinque: heh, I'll have to try running my emacs env on your brick sometime
asciilifeform: anyone ever build a working trb on openbsd ?
trinque: !s from:phf openbsd
assbot: 20 results for 'from:phf openbsd' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aphf+openbsd
asciilifeform: i don't recall a ~rotor~ trb working there.
asciilifeform: phf, is there one ?
trinque: it doesn't run linux binaries, which would preclude buildroot, wouldn't it?
trinque: in openbsd's case the operating system's version number refers to an entire base system
trinque: could just target one of those and results should be the same on same arch
asciilifeform: buildroot, theoretically, ought to work on bsd.
asciilifeform: (recall, we're not building a kernel with it, only the toolchain)
trinque: lemme see what it does and I'll paste; I've done it before and it barfed.
asciilifeform: understand why i went with buildroot.
asciilifeform: we need a thing that will 1) let us 'vendor' gcc and the WHOLE toolchain
asciilifeform: 2) GUARANTEE that a build pulls in NOTHING from outside.
trinque: yep, sensible
asciilifeform: there may be other ways to achieve this, e.g., a bsd 'jail'
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 17.40000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b126
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49800 @ 0.00059163 = 29.4632 BTC [+] {2}
phf: asciilifeform: there's no rotor
phf: i think i wanted to figure out how to package openssl/db/boost as buildroot native packages, rather then doing adhoc, which is a task in itself
phf: once i do can probably produce buildroot for mac os x too
phf: i'm though confused, i thought buildroot is explicitly a cross-compilation mechanism?
phf: "Buildroot is a tool that simplifies and automates the process of building a complete Linux system for an embedded system, using cross-compilation.
phf: In order to achieve this, Buildroot is able to generate a cross-compilation toolchain, a root filesystem, a Linux kernel image and a bootloader for your target."
ben_vulpes: > verify with text message (most secure)
ben_vulpes: mhm sure
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-02-2016#1416923 << this girl i'm rather fond of convinced me that it wasn't a half-bad way to spend thirty years while my brain rots building apps for various usg tentacles.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-02-2016 20:00:05; asciilifeform: in this particular case, why offspring
ben_vulpes: sure as hell beats drinking the horror at my own existence away
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-02-2016#1415503 << mount her on a bicycle, pilfer a bottle from the office, mash around the city on bikes, break onto the in-decomissionment sellwood bridge and fuck on it? iono man what does one do with random girls anyways☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-02-2016 18:22:46; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-02-2016#1415189 << inquiring minds would like to know what you'd have done with her if you caught her !
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-02-2016#1418499 << we abuse it...☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 21:41:44; phf: i'm though confused, i thought buildroot is explicitly a cross-compilation mechanism?
phf: oh so it's not even crosscompile?
asciilifeform: well we cross-compile.
asciilifeform: from derplinux to ideallinux.
phf: :)
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit.
asciilifeform: and, originally, i picked up buildroot to make pogotron.
thestringpuller: everytime I see pogo reference I think of butt plug
phf: http://www.toysrus.com/graphics/tru_prod_images/Fisher-Price-Grow-to-Pro-Pogo-Stick--pTRU1-2909797dt.jpg
assbot: 200 OK ... ( http://bit.ly/1TMcE1C )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> << quite psychanalizable, ftr. notice the spurt of "make x great again" ever since 2015 or so. << It's a Trump slogan, that's why it went meme
asciilifeform: hay mas futuro!
BingoBoingo: <trinque> it doesn't run linux binaries, which would preclude buildroot, wouldn't it? << Last week Openbsd killed linux_compat on i386 which is the last platform they supported it on
phf: oh ffs
phf: i was hoping to get intellij idea running on that
BingoBoingo: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20160227163716
assbot: Linux Emulation goes to the great bitbucket of the sky ... ( http://bit.ly/1RBvhU8 )
asciilifeform: phf: l0l! are you slaving in a java mine ?!
asciilifeform used 'idea' as a student, many years ago.
phf: nah, actually use it for day to day development
asciilifeform: how is that not slaving in a java mine ?
phf: err, i mean, python mostly
asciilifeform: or does idea do other langs now
asciilifeform: hm
phf: it does, and it has very elaborate python plugin (can be had separately as "pycharm")
jurov: they have a sibling of idea named pycharm
jurov: i use, too
phf: it does things for you, autoimports, large scale refactoring, working jump to/from functionality
phf: it's got some other niceties, like a db integration, where it introspects into the scheme and then does static analysis on your sql code, including sql code that's inline somewhere in python
phf: *schema
asciilifeform: this is spiffy, but closed source crud belongs in a specially-designated leprosorium (malware box, or at least, if you like living dangerously, a vm) rather than on naked civilian box !
phf: i don't know what constitutes naked civilian box
asciilifeform: depends.
asciilifeform: 'don't shit in the kitchen' is valid, despite different folks having different kinds of kitchen
asciilifeform: i.e. places where definitionally one ought not shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4882 @ 0.00058647 = 2.8631 BTC [+]
jurov: that it's good thing to dream about :)
ben_vulpes shits in sink, eats from toilet bowl, never knew to do anything else before 2013
ben_vulpes: AM PASHTUN
jurov: As long as you use the proper hand for each.
ben_vulpes: american pashtun!
ben_vulpes: i have tp ffs jurov
ben_vulpes: sheesh this is like when i moved to new york and people were astonished to learn that there's electricity west of the rockies
deedbot-: [Ossasepia] Coordinate Eulometry (or Tomb of the Dead Mollusc) - http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/03/01/coordinate-eulometry-or-tomb-of-the-dead-mollusc/
phf: toilet paper is barbaric
ben_vulpes: at mp's prompting i added a plastic handheld thing to the shower
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: isn't that for old people?
deedbot-: [Qntra] Google At Fault In Motor Vehicle Collision - http://qntra.net/2016/02/google-at-fault-in-motor-vehicle-collision/
phf: asciilifeform: i guess i can't seem to find a baseline that doesn't suck in all kinds of obvious and non-obvious ways. for all practical purposes i operate out of a semipublic terminal that i don't own. various attempts to establish non-superficial ownership were unsuccessful for reasons amply discussed here
phf: i found my way here to begin with because i was following your loperos project and your conclusions were then correct, only to be re-confirmed as part of b-a research
asciilifeform: phf: iirc several people did
asciilifeform: (adlai ?)
phf: probably all the common lispers
asciilifeform: not all, ben_vulpes was here before me.
phf: ah, i think that's from before i was paying close attention to logs
phf: but anyway, chuck moore probably has clean kitchen and terry davis :p
asciilifeform: iirc he was named benkay in those days.
phf: i think he renamed himself during my 6 months
phf: my current goal is to have better compartmentalization, like have a gaming machine (i.e. libretto running dos, i've been unwinding with ~~'95 games), a work machine (i.e. a thing that can run intellij and which is compromised for all the practical purposes) and a b-a machine whatever that evolves into, because i don't think the future of a computer as a progrock moog station is panning out
phf: ^- http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/2015/list/50-greatest-prog-rock-albums-of-all-time-20150617/199927/medium_rect/1434559354/720x405-GettyImages-74702183.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1oU2hxL )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> not all, ben_vulpes was here before me. << iirc benkay you and myself were part of the 2013 #b-a cohort
phf: that must be right because that's when asciilifeform published the mpex review, so i must've been reading mp since then, but ben_vulpes renamed himself quite recently
phf: sometime summer last year
mats: http://i.imgur.com/gJj95hz.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1XWn5jS )