700+ entries in 0.182s
Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his
gossipd bed
☟︎ Framedragger: (but then, the newer article clearly states "This is an up-to-date draft specification for
gossipd", so i'm not too sure about that, either)
Framedragger: afaict
gossipd model assumes that some rsa keys had been exchanged out-of-band. traditional challenge-response has been constantly critiqued by asciilifeform via "it's a DoS vector" argument (sorry if too curt, am in bed)
Framedragger got confused from article, too (hence not opining re
gossipd currently)
Framedragger: in fact i'd imagine that
gossipd should ideally allow for arbitrary end to end encryption, would be up to operator?
Framedragger recalls mircea_popescu's archaic use of "for" in context of
gossipd a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 00:54 asciilifeform: phf has a very similar
gossipd in commonlisp, for instance
sina: ok so I implemented some p2p encryption for the
gossipd thingo
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:12 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674379 << introductions aren't intended to be handled by
gossipd. the correct way to do this is for me to say "add 8A56264EAD0BC4BD9CD7AC0086B488AB sina" which is a legitimate pubkey of your
gossipd, AND for you to go whatever re mine. then they can talk, change keys etc. not before./
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:28 asciilifeform: irc is exactly '
gossipd without crypto'.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:02 asciilifeform: for one thing, there IS NO SESSION in
gossipd (either my concept or either of mircea_popescu's two essays)
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 00:57 asciilifeform: sina: one of the things
gossipd needs is a constant-time-constant-space rsa. if you don't have one, enemy can derive your privkeys remotely based on timing.
mircea_popescu:
gossipd should hot be able to discover peers. (if you think about it, the ability to discover peers is another way to say "leaking data").
mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674379 << introductions aren't intended to be handled by
gossipd. the correct way to do this is for me to say "add 8A56264EAD0BC4BD9CD7AC0086B488AB sina" which is a legitimate pubkey of your
gossipd, AND for you to go whatever re mine. then they can talk, change keys etc. not before./
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-02-08 00:06 mircea_popescu: the only assurance to be had here comes from a
gossipd model. where anyone could have written the plaintext, and for all anyone POORLY CONNECTED knows, they probably did.
sina: I got that impression from reading
gossipd logs, obviously I didn't read everything ever because I only learned about the linespeed thing yesterday
sina: can I clarify something? when you say
gossipd are you assuming that all traffic is enciphered?
sina: ok fair point, I get the general need for constant time constant space algo regardless of
gossipd stuff anyway
sina: session may be the wrong term. I just mean, in the spec
http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ "III.
Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 16:32 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << fwiw i carefully read all of it. asciilifeform's verdict: very much a gabriel_laddel-ization of
gossipd. does 0 of the necessary work, and drags in 5+GB of liquishit deps (python, sql, some derp's crypto lib.) the amount of this that would have to be rewritten, from the ground, is 100%. not even useful as illustration of anything, because NONE of the actually complicated moving parts of a
sina: alright. the
gossipd thingo is 0.0.1 implemented. peers can communicate, each session (fetch messages) is mediated by deedbot style OTP with per peer-pair RSA keys (no GPG shell asciilifeform, using libtomcrypt). I wrote a tiny client to add peers, exchange keys, broadcast msgs and view stored msgs. there is a README.
a111: Logged on 2016-03-01 03:53 asciilifeform: mats: the idea is, a kind of line-speed (GB ethernet) wall, where crud goes in, and valid in-wot
gossipd out.
scriba: Logged on 2017-06-25: [03:01:01] <sina> was kind of hoping mp would be around as I have a few
gossipd questions
scriba: Logged on 2017-06-24: [01:45:14] <sina> mod6: heya, not too bad, working on a
gossipd impl!
sina: took me a fair bit of debugging but I got the
gossipd thing going so it sends and receives messages. peer addition and message addition are manual commands atm, but it does work :D github.com/sinner-/
gossipd sina: I.
Gossipd will have access to a read-onlyii databaseiii of identitiesiv known to it.
sina: was kind of hoping mp would be around as I have a few
gossipd questions
sina: just going through those comments again trinque, e.g.
http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119015 "One possible cut of the Gordian Knot re: my "enemy's ability to trigger a response from a suspected-node on demand" would be for every node to have a "lighthouse" - an always-on broadcaster of authentication challenge strings." per the spec I will be implementing this
trinque: cool, was just curious which
gossipd you meant.
sina: mod6: heya, not too bad, working on a
gossipd impl!
mircea_popescu: thyis is a fractally repeating point : the reason "social learning" as modelled by redditards doesn't work irl is the indirection layer. the reason
gossipd is undefeatable in practice is... the indirection layer.
mircea_popescu: review the
gossipd discussions, they're instructive on the topic.
sina: no here.
gossipd, libsodium/nacl, trump...a few other things I searched
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, after writing that i recalled
gossipd design and intentions (need to generate a lot of keys, and if it takes a month - so fucking be it)...
gabriel_laddel_p: But it presents a way to get off of "the web", and then swap the underlying networking implementation for
gossipd, while retaining a usable UI throughout.
mircea_popescu: well, as conclusive as it gets. see the
gossipd design document comment section.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i don't think the discussion about say
gossipd station keys vs 'main key' was necessarily finished? i realise that it ain't pretty
a111: Logged on 2017-04-19 12:43 Framedragger: i could add www endpoint to scriba which would take in encrypt pgpgrams, and scriba would PM them to target. to avoid abuse etc., messages would need to be signed, tho. not sure how useful. (i'd maybe use this. could pgpgram while not connected to irc. maybe overthinking this before impending
gossipd)
Framedragger: i could add www endpoint to scriba which would take in encrypt pgpgrams, and scriba would PM them to target. to avoid abuse etc., messages would need to be signed, tho. not sure how useful. (i'd maybe use this. could pgpgram while not connected to irc. maybe overthinking this before impending
gossipd)
☟︎ trinque: and when
gossipd comes around and asciilifeform can dispense with www entirely, dispense with shithouse *and* shithouse creature
Framedragger: i'm waiting for the day that freenode goes down while datacenters with logotrons are experiencing issues. everyone's gonna freak out, there will be a new more urgent push for
gossipd, it's gonna be great!
Framedragger: but then if things are coded correctly, it shouldn't be hard to swap irc for
gossipd later, imho
a111: Logged on 2016-06-13 01:00 Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for
gossipd without much effort at all
Framedragger: (this is just to juxtapose topics of trb and
gossipd for a second and to maybe show why some folks really like the lighthouse idea) :)
Framedragger intends to set his mind to some p2p/
gossipd stuff come summer, if moon phase aligns with karma etc.
Framedragger: re. priorities and (natural) lack of 'global amazing konsensus priority list of shit to do', in my humble and very noob mind they are something like; 'p';
gossipd or partial iteration towards it; invoicing system; << these three'd useful for outside-tmsr interests fo sho; and nfi re. trb, as on the one hand it's supposed to be super important,
mircea_popescu: it's not altogether clear to me how such a thing is an improvement over "just run your current trb through the future
gossipd"
mircea_popescu: we'll have to have a
gossipd sooner rather than later.
trinque: ben_vulpes: I'd rather get some
gossipd work rolling than put any more effort into hugging the IRC turd tighter
mircea_popescu: and you also don't "must have signed
gossipd lines", either. there was a mega discussion re that also on
gossipd thread
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, it's quite unclear to me that
gossipd need be related to this other thing
Framedragger: but the thing *could* be developed orthogonally to
gossipd's efforts, which is nice.
trinque: I was going to say the same, does require
gossipd ben_vulpes: davout: "impossible without
gossipd" according to asciilifeform
Framedragger: yeah,
gossipd client != browser. market share matters hm.
Framedragger: i guess one may have a database of keys, as well as a table of signed-with-key nicknames which establish someone claiming a nickname for key? sort of gns. alternative scheme is to have any kind of aliasing be local, as per
gossipd. less convenient for things like looking up nickname in wot.deedbot.org of course.
phf: i guess the multiple keys idea was already introduced in
gossipd (in the original spec i suspect it was a solution to "no automatic RSA-ing" problem)
trinque: dedicated
gossipd hardware would be useful, even kbps slow