tmsr - Log 2016-04-22

phf: ben_vulpes: to be fair common lisp tumor is mainly perceptible only to a special kind of basket cases. it is still one of the healthier ecosystems.

asciilifeform: phf: the emacs tumour (see logz, the 'flycheck' thread) is what really blew my mind ☟︎

asciilifeform: traditionally, the populist chickenbrains folks avoided emacs like plague

asciilifeform: but then somebody realized that it was next on the 'embrace & extinguish' chopping block, and the 'flychecks' appeared.

a111: Logged on 2016-01-19 04:28 phf: asciilifeform: you know they produced a whole series of those, f.el, dash.el, s.el. "modern"!

asciilifeform: there is apparently nothing more alluring to the vermin than a not-yet-verminized ecosystem ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is like crack cocaine, to them.

asciilifeform: common lisp verminization will proceed on the same schedule as the emacs one, i imagine

phf: although i wonder where you should start the emacs tumour countdown, sometime around MULE

asciilifeform: e.g., in a few years a n00b looking for 'web server' will find ten qeergendered flycheckesque atrocities and - if he is very very lucky - one 'hunchentoot' in a state of disrepair

asciilifeform: phf: definitely mule

asciilifeform: the case of flycheck was especially instructive because, near as i could tell, the thing provided ZERO advantage over flymake

asciilifeform: of any kind whatsoever

asciilifeform: it was a shit sandwich ANY WAY YOU CUT IT

asciilifeform: and yet if you go ~anywhere you will read 'flymake is OBSOLETE!1111 use flycheck'

asciilifeform: then you try it and find that if you need custom compiler flags (or, satan forbid, a non-x86 gcc) you're SHIT out of luck

asciilifeform: whereas flymake uses your own makefile, which can be ANYTHING.

phf: well, emacs is not outside hostile to "obsolete". iswitchb-mode greets me with "this function is now obsolete" on each load. why? who the fuck knows.

asciilifeform: but oh noez it already existed and predated the flies

asciilifeform: so Must Die

asciilifeform: according to flies.

asciilifeform: phf: you gotta understand their modus operandi

asciilifeform: they HAVE to break your working box.

asciilifeform: or nobody in his right mind would consider their crapolade.

asciilifeform: just as i would have never even known about 'flycheck' if i didn't come across a broken (since fixed, by hand) macos emacs.

phf: oh i understand. it's like the cl mode. they've been fighting cl mode for years, without success, because it's hellof useful. not only has cl mode now been replaced with cl-lib which prefixes ~everything~ with cl- (cl-first, cl-defstruct, cl-fuck-your-mother) but they also disabled highlight of all the cl forms. so cl-defstruct highlights, defstruct doesn't. to discourage the sins of the flesh, y'see. ☟︎

phf: can still (require 'cl), and it will work, but discouraged from writing since there's no highlighting. next release using cl functions directly is going to produce deprecation warnings.

asciilifeform: the only solution to this kind of shit is to BURN it out with HOT IRONS.

phf: there's no solution to this kind of shit outside of "i use cmucl with emacs 19 and ilisp" or whatever, which is programmer's equivalent of mp's 2005 thinkpads

phf: naggum tried to maintain his own versions of everything (i.e. burn it out with hot irons) and... ☟︎

asciilifeform: this is pretty much the only answer.

asciilifeform: and yes, people try to dodge it because it requires work.

asciilifeform: but there is not actually any escape from it.

asciilifeform: once the gangrene sets in, you either freeze your toolchain or give up work. ☟︎

asciilifeform: and a buncha other turd also

asciilifeform: hey that worked

asciilifeform: worked for ~everything minus a few proggies

asciilifeform: (chromium, wireshark)

phf: at the very least the demarcation lines become ~very~ obvious. it's either an old unix hand with one or two libs in dependency tree, or a modern monster that pulls 50 libraries and fails to install because of some poetterlib

asciilifeform: this should surprise no one

asciilifeform: just as, walking on the street, you meet men, and flies, but never a man-fly hybrid of questionable species

asciilifeform: (outside of the mega-film)

asciilifeform: and yeah, you will know the idiocies by their mile-long trails of 'pango', 'bonobo', and other strange deps

phf: well, it reveals that core infrastructure is rotten, i assume "few proggies" is what's needed on your battlestation, because on a laptop i'm still for example missing power management tooling. even shell script based stuff depends on dbus or somesuch

asciilifeform: at the heart of something like power management there is normally a 500-lines-of-c util that mostly worx, but surrounded for some reason by hairball of rubbish scriptolade

asciilifeform: whosoever can be arsed, can try to strip it away.

asciilifeform: if your stomach is strong, and little else to do (who?) can go, try.

asciilifeform: at any rate my gentoo-depoetteringizer does not magically fix the ecosystem, shat to all hell, no. but what it ~does~ do is to hard-nuke the autopullin crapolade and reveal who is your enemy and who is merely passive victim.

asciilifeform: as in, what needs to be fixed, and what - burned with hot irons until not even wet spot remains.

asciilifeform: actually carrying the exercise to a usable-to-other-people, well-documented conclusion is somewhere Nth on the list of things i would do if i had mircea_popescuesque levels of free time

asciilifeform: so there is ~no one to do the burning.

asciilifeform: presently.

asciilifeform: thing is, someone will have to maintain the forked (and, in practice, re-write, most of them are quite nearly unmaintainable) proggies. there is not actually a substitute for, e.g., wireshark.

asciilifeform: trinque: because nothing else is likely to exist in our lifetime ?

phf: wireshark is a kind of IDA or intellij, can just have them running on your most-sane-dev-box-du-jour

asciilifeform: phf: presently there is nothing else to do

asciilifeform: ida is a particularly interesting case because it is a TOTAL monopoly ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: as in, nothing else even remotely approaches it.

asciilifeform: i know of no even vaguely similar item elsewhere.

asciilifeform: it is a collective-failure-of-everybody-but-one-guy - sorta like mpex.

asciilifeform: it is precisely mircea_popescu's story about zeus throwing the other gods

asciilifeform: a race where not only first place but places one through ten thousand went to a single winner.

phf: i'm ok that there exists a superior tool that solves a class of problems. kind of like right now paying for intellij ensures that i can do a certain paid work in the most effective way available. perhaps if i have another interesting lisp project, i'll call alegro people again, etc.

phf: i'm more concerned that there's very little ground left that's unpolluted on which i can build a house or possibly raise a barn with other people

asciilifeform: the most concerning bit is the hardware extinction.

asciilifeform: described here on many occasions.

asciilifeform: it is especially concerning because the 'end times' situation, where usable computer hardware is expensive and you cannot rely on other folks having same one as you, etc. is actually how we ended up with the unix braindamage to begin with.

asciilifeform: (how rms left the lisp world, think.)

phf: end times situation is that there's not going to be usable hardware, because "nobody" needs it

asciilifeform: well in practice the only usable hardware ALREADY is out of print.

asciilifeform: (see thread re 'opteron' etc)

phf: naggums have a fit, for obvious reasons, but you can still keep on using that emacs, until "they come for me and noone's left"

asciilifeform: this is why the sane fpga will have to be produced.

phf: i.e. my cmucl runs on a clearly compromised intel cpu and can even do interesting things. imagine future(tm) where only way to run cmucl is by crosscompiling into x86 emulator inside your web browser ;] ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is the only thing approaching a general-purpose pill against the garbage.

asciilifeform: it is worth elaborating re what 'sane' means in this case.

asciilifeform: it means that 1) design is published and is likely to remain available, no reverse-engineered americrud plox

asciilifeform: 2) toolchain is not a closed x86 turd, and in fact can run on an arch implemented on SELFSAME CHIP itself.

asciilifeform: this is a ~basic, necessary step~ to sanity of whatever any other kind.

asciilifeform: (re: 1 - e.g., reversed xilinx 4000 series, is ~useless~, as you cannot buy it in any kind of qty)

asciilifeform: phf: that 'future' is here already for iPnohe users, who have to run the js pc emulator in the browser to play gamez

asciilifeform: if they want classic msdos gamez

phf: standardize on 2010 hardware, buy n+1 replacements for all the parts, write program to talk to god

asciilifeform: this is a computerized version of the traditional american 'survivalist' lunacy

asciilifeform: where you seal yourself into a cave with 10,000 cans of 'spam' and 100,000 rounds of kalash

asciilifeform: and then ... .

phf: i didn't realize it until you said it, and it's fucking hilarious, because i'd mock the strategy elsewhere

asciilifeform: when romans sealed up a vestal virgin who had a fuck, they gave her a loaf of bread and a glass of milk

asciilifeform: but when we do it in usa with 10,000 loaves it is called 'survival' somehow.

asciilifeform: it is quite the same with 10,000 opteron cpu.

asciilifeform: does anyone recall the jet fighter thread ?

asciilifeform: where we talked about the junkyard in the airport in timisoara

asciilifeform: consisting of a tall pile of MiGs

asciilifeform: which had been cannibalized, largely, to feed their dozen or so working ones

asciilifeform: i went to the house, where this was done

asciilifeform: and had a machine made

asciilifeform: it was quite like that airfield, yes.

asciilifeform: i haven't switched the thing on in some years

asciilifeform: because, among other reasons, if the disk dies, there is literally NO WAY to restore it

asciilifeform: even if i find identical disk elsewhere

asciilifeform: contents can only be loaded onto it from tape, and i have neither the tape, nor the tape drive !

asciilifeform: (though schmidt did sell me an ~empty shell~ of a tape drive, in case i can ever locate the drive raw !)

asciilifeform: the shell - before anyone asks - has the requisite cabling, ALSO unfindable.

asciilifeform: this is what machine extinction is like

asciilifeform: like to watch ww2 films ?

asciilifeform: then you probably know that NONE of the tanks or planes appearing in ones made in past 40 or so yrs are genuine period.

asciilifeform: real, e.g., 'zero' airplane, exists, in flying condition even somewhere, but do you think it will be wasted on a ~film~ ?!

asciilifeform: i actually spent the first ~6 mo. after i bought the lisp machine, trying to rig up, with fpga, a mechanism to read the fucking disk ☟︎

asciilifeform: gave up from lack of time.

asciilifeform: st-506 incidentally.

asciilifeform: wanted to not merely read the disk, but emulate

asciilifeform: so i could get rid of the brick and replace with $1 sd card.

phf: i know some folk who can restore 3620 drives, but's that's because that's what they do. i'll ask them what their solutions are at the moment

asciilifeform: the man who did it for a living, had no solution.

asciilifeform: other than a tall (shrinking, as i understand, today - to nothing) pile of drives.

asciilifeform: some outfit in texas makes an emulator gadget, it costs 4 figures.

asciilifeform: i have nfi how well it worx.

asciilifeform: used, as i understand, in critical infrastructure which runs on 1980s minis.

asciilifeform: at any rate, all of these problems are solvable IF SOMEONE CARED TO

asciilifeform: the protocol was documented, i sat down, started doing it

asciilifeform: it is all brute labour

asciilifeform: would have ended up with a result, too, if 'life had not gotten in the way'

phf: well the man who (still) does it for living is not necessarily the ultimate authority, he just does what he needs to do to get those mil contracts cashing in

asciilifeform: recall the pdp emulator thread ?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-02#1222211 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-08-02 16:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall that pdp emulator fella ?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-02#1222246 << related. ☝︎

phf: some problems are probably better solvable than others, can perhaps build a st-506<->sd gadget in garage, can't do same with the cpu

asciilifeform: it depends on what means 'cpu'

asciilifeform: can build cpu for certain purposes out of 74xxx.

asciilifeform: but not for, e.g., bitcoin.

asciilifeform: but ok for, e.g., calculating dynamics of the tamper in hbomb.

asciilifeform: or - at a stretch - pgp.

asciilifeform: (this is mainly academic exercise, 74xxx do not grow on trees any more than 'opteron' does.)

asciilifeform: for a while i got into the question of cupric oxide and other exotic semiconductor

asciilifeform: with the aim of, ideally, finding a way to make integrated circuit in similar ways to how hobbyist can make pcb

asciilifeform: (modified b&w photo process, or at least something not more complicated than doing colour photo at home)

asciilifeform: but i did not - to date - get far.

asciilifeform: made a sorta working cu diode.

asciilifeform: that was it.

asciilifeform: the most discouraging part is the utter lack of anybody giving half a tinker's damn.

asciilifeform: (last i recall mircea_popescu gave somewhere close to 1/10th of a damn, he is to be commended for this) ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is even worth considering that one could, in principle, compute on something ~other than a semiconductor~

asciilifeform: e.g., an optical delay line arranged in some clever way.

phf: define giving a damn. most people would see something like that as a hobbyist project along the lines of building a cpu out of nand gates, but funding it as an militarized alternative to modern computing?

asciilifeform: there was a whole world of approaches that people spent their lives on, before cheap semiconductor, and entirely forgotten now

asciilifeform: e.g., magnetic logic

asciilifeform: (see logz!)

asciilifeform: phf: 'give a damn' in the serious financial sense.

asciilifeform: as it stands, it has a good chunk of the difficulty of space colonization but with ~none of the 'sexappeal'

asciilifeform: unenviable field to live in.

asciilifeform: costs of chip fab as we know it, and of orbital launch, are even comparable. ☟︎

asciilifeform: and as it stands, 'hobbyist' semiconductor is roughly in the same place as hobbyist space travel.

asciilifeform: not even.

asciilifeform: if i could make one thing, on a traditional si process, it would be an fpga.

asciilifeform: the by far least idiotic item to make.

asciilifeform: unfortunately it would have to be on a reasonably recent density, to be useful.

asciilifeform: (fpga only became a seriously practical thing, really, in 2000s. you will find them from '90s but on MASSIVE boards with dozens of the same unit)

asciilifeform: fpga also plays well with my 'specificity of diddling' theorem.

asciilifeform: i.e. there is no effective way to subtly sabotage the thing if you do not know the victim's intended circuit layout.

phf: for example i don't quite grok why can't press low density vlsi at home. seems like all or nothing kind of proposition.

asciilifeform: phf: it again depends.

asciilifeform: do you need to melt and refine the si ?

asciilifeform: cut the wafer ?

asciilifeform: chemically prepare the cut wafer ?

asciilifeform: or did someone do all of this already

asciilifeform: (in many modern plants, the things are purchased pre-prepped)

asciilifeform: conceivably if you start with a sufficiently prepped product, you can 'vlsi at home'

asciilifeform: but then the act is only scarcely different from using fpga.

asciilifeform: you did not make anything, really, and you relied on a supply chain that is quite likely unstable, esp. if you become 'interesting' ☟︎

asciilifeform: quite.

asciilifeform: my take on it, is that if you are using some industrial product in this, it absolutely has to be something available in MASSIVE qty, readily

asciilifeform: just as afghanis make kalash with hand tools, yes, but do not worry about getting ammo, it is gettable

asciilifeform: (if they had to try to make ~it~ they would quickly fight with swords again)

asciilifeform: analogously, the correct thing to make today would be not merely fpga,

asciilifeform: but one where the physical package is brought out to a 'nuts and bolts' thing that you can screw into an aggregate, tiled, without making pcb

asciilifeform: where 'computer' is simply this mass, of how many of these things you screwed together and attached dc power supply to.

asciilifeform: picture 1,024 'cubes of computronium'

asciilifeform: handily solves 'diddle' also - which cube will the enemy sabotage ? how does he know which one will hold what part of your circuit before you assemble them ?

asciilifeform: even if enemy supplies ~all~ of the cubes.

asciilifeform: aha but macroscale.

asciilifeform: also 'greenarray' i will nitpick is not an fpga

asciilifeform: but just a die with a number of conventional cpu.

asciilifeform: (if small.)

asciilifeform: fpga is also nice because, in principle, it can be optically inspected

asciilifeform: (put a quartz glass window in it, like 1980s eproms)

asciilifeform: structure is very regular.

asciilifeform: thing consists largely of sram.

asciilifeform: (modern vendors succumb to the temptation to put a great many special-purpose parts in fpga, e.g., multipliers, even whole cpu cores, etc. i am specifically not talking about their rubbish.)

phf: so the idea is what drop $500k on an pure documented fpga, hope that maker crowd will help you recoup your costs, use fraction to run tmsr infrastructure? :) ☟︎

asciilifeform: it'd be quite a bit more than 500k

asciilifeform: and i have no reasonable expectation that anyone could recoup the costs.

asciilifeform: ergo it ain't happening.

phf: so what's the advantage of fpga based architecture as opposed to someone hypothetically investing quite a bit more than 500k into a high density risc, etc.?

asciilifeform: the advantage is that you keep the design space.

asciilifeform: can run x86 proggies today, and have the option of proper lispm later

asciilifeform: there is also the advantage i described earlier, re 'specificity of diddling'

asciilifeform: the thing is that neither of these concerns really interests anybody who has a spare 500k

asciilifeform: (again this number is missing several 0's, but for sake of argument.0

phf: well, more like 8086 and cadr today and proper lispm maybe in the future if somebody designs one

phf: ok, i'm going to sleep. this was an entertaining conversation, even if a recap of many past threads

asciilifeform: it is not actually hard to massively improve on cadr, much of its gnarl was that it had to be made of 74xxx and of weird amd ALUs available at the time

asciilifeform: 'nigh phf

asciilifeform: *night

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455022 << it's not JUST that, also needs another ingredient, a special flavour of "open". geek-open, when people aren't comfortable with humiliating idiots. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:37 asciilifeform: there is apparently nothing more alluring to the vermin than a not-yet-verminized ecosystem

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:46 phf: oh i understand. it's like the cl mode. they've been fighting cl mode for years, without success, because it's hellof useful. not only has cl mode now been replaced with cl-lib which prefixes ~everything~ with cl- (cl-first, cl-defstruct, cl-fuck-your-mother) but they also disabled highlight of all the cl forms. so cl-defstruct highlights, defstruct doesn't. to discourage the sins of the flesh, y'see.

mircea_popescu: who the fuck asked anybody, and why isn't this just some text config file somewhere.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455048 << i think naggum was an incredibly poorly managed project. i wouldn't think his experience informative, for anything ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:49 phf: naggum tried to maintain his own versions of everything (i.e. burn it out with hot irons) and...

asciilifeform: naggum fought alone.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except you did not do it from the position of being a pauper.

asciilifeform: srsly you need a certain amount of mircea_popescutronium to 'jurisdiction shop', appear in court, etc.

mircea_popescu: it's one thing to try and run a marathon. it;s another thing to try and run a marathon with pneumonia.

mircea_popescu: but in general - not that i expect this to be practically useful to anyone, as it isn't without the rest of the tools involved - the matter hinges on that fine thin line when liability can be personally attached. once you can start going after individuals rather than their precious "government" construct in the abstract, they pop like watermelons in august.

asciilifeform: in usa, at least, 'individual' is more often than not sunk on the very day he has to so much as ~appear~ in court.

asciilifeform: kiss job good-bye, etc.

mircea_popescu: i've so far netted more money than the average us citizen's net worth out of simply selling cases.

asciilifeform: just hiring lawyer for a week would wipe out ~99% of usaschwitz inmates

asciilifeform: and yeah i recall, in logz, 'whichever hungry london barrister buys'

mircea_popescu: in general, if you're not working with retained counsel, but have to purpose hire, you have no business going to court.

asciilifeform: but admit, this is 0 use to a naggum.

mircea_popescu: this is how this works : if it is your field of expertise, you have legal team ready to go. either you're a complete imbecile, or woe be upon whoever gets involved. if not your field of expertise, you're either prosecuting in which case generally you want to assign the matter ; or else you're in deep shit.

asciilifeform: so then. what should he have done against the tax inspectors.

asciilifeform: the one option was, i suppose, to go stack.

asciilifeform: pop 2nd round into his head

mircea_popescu: "man should not discharge rifle into boat". who the fuck told him he can run a consulting business without a tax expert ? even accountant level.

mircea_popescu: he decided to do this incredibly idiotic thing after which didn't want to pay the slap on the wrist penalty that attaches to doing incredibly idiotic thing ?

asciilifeform: tax expert would have somehow settled the 80% norwegian tax, assessed ~based on profession~, rather than actual receipts, into something sane?!

asciilifeform: and it wasn't a slap on the wrist, it was - iirc - a pretty penny

asciilifeform: i.e. what he 'could have earned'

asciilifeform: (they would not believe that he preferred to work 2-3 mo./yr in actuality)

mircea_popescu: the term "slap on the wrist" is a business call. it stands correct as it is. your "pretty penny" is a housewife call. it's not relevant how much it is.

asciilifeform: it is relevant to the man who has to pay and hasn't with what

asciilifeform: and from whom they then take whatever isn't bolted down

mircea_popescu: how do you perceive what he did (hurr durr i'm going to be a business) is different from average tardstalk forumite (hurr durr i'm going to be an exchange) ?

asciilifeform: granted, to mircea_popescu on mt olympus none of this is relevant

mircea_popescu: point stands : if you aren't a businessman, and don't have business skills, why are you starting a business ?

asciilifeform: and if he had learned..?

asciilifeform: would have learned to not even try, and then what, spend life working for racal norsk ?

asciilifeform: it is precisely the 'overcivilized' thing

asciilifeform: over here in usaschwitz folks learn to - yes, not even try

mircea_popescu: look, the dilemma here isn't "either i be eunuch or else i go fight for odin as a berserker"

asciilifeform: yes, an accountant could have - and probably did! tell naggum that he was fucked.

asciilifeform: how much good this did ?

asciilifeform: how was he to get ~unfucked~.

mircea_popescu: do you understand this ? about a third of my mail EACH DAY is various people in various jurisdictions telling me "mr popescu how do we proceed in the following situation : X. A does so and so B does so and so [C, D , E]"

asciilifeform: naturally.

asciilifeform: but this is interesting to mircea_popescu because he ~has~ the maneuvering space.

asciilifeform: the c,d,e buttons are actually connected to something, for him.

mircea_popescu: the notion that you're going to run a business, but not have counsel, not have tax and accounting support, not have etc etc is like you'll cook a meal for a wedding without stove or pots or pans.

asciilifeform: if you can't afford a pot, you will cook it on open hearth yes.

asciilifeform: in a mud pit.

asciilifeform: or eat raw.

asciilifeform: why do you suppose people fuck goats?

asciilifeform: naggum and stack were similar in that actually getting all of the support they were 'supposed to have to run business' would likely have ~wiped them out~ financially and still put them no farther away from statal rape

asciilifeform: trinque: ever hire lawyer ?

asciilifeform: retain one ?

asciilifeform: it was cheap ?

mircea_popescu: you know you can generally get a basic package kinda similar to insurance.

asciilifeform: i had this, it was a joke

asciilifeform: trinque: a motherfucking consulting gig ??

asciilifeform: where a few k/mo is your WHOLE RECEIPT ?

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you have to appreciate : in nature, there exists such a thing as a hole.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again i had this, and it was a real laugh, read the fine print sometime.

mircea_popescu: if you ever drove clutch you gotta understand this. you can not run car at ALL speeds and combos.

asciilifeform: sure.

asciilifeform: trinque: mighty fine answer. but you left out the broomstick.

mircea_popescu: there is nothing wrong with this - people do it all the time. venice was entirely built out of the fact that a boat took on average 3.5 merchants

trinque: sorry, *there is a minimum expense involved in running a business and you can't get around that fact.

asciilifeform: trinque: i did not say it was a mega-promising career choice.

asciilifeform: only that plenty of folks, incl. apparently the late naggum, lived in it.

asciilifeform: until died.

asciilifeform: like folks live in any other butugychag.

asciilifeform: anyway i'm not convinced that ~anyone actually ~chooses~ to become a naggum

asciilifeform: instead folks try to escape employmentschwitz

asciilifeform: and end up there.

asciilifeform: it is a kind of outer barbed wire they get stuck in and shot by the guards.

mircea_popescu: and re the fine print... there's a lot of suckers and retail in there. last i went to the states, i got full insurance, from lloyds of london no less. for, if memory serves, #159.

BingoBoingo was actually considering opening fiat business as a hedge next year. You just gotta look at businesses with lower minimum costs.

mircea_popescu: locals fell over when saw. even at the time, my thing beat their 7k/year thing.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what was actually covered ?

asciilifeform: neato.

asciilifeform: of course, since banned (at least for usaschwitz inmates) by obummer.

mircea_popescu: and by trims i mean a list. civil judgements for accidents, including hunting! included.

mats: i struggle to determine ethnic origins through facial features in p much all not-asian races

asciilifeform: pretty neat but there is no way in hell it covers ~suing others~

BingoBoingo: If you want to start a fiat business your first expense isn't insurance it is a lawnmower.

asciilifeform: nor can you insure against usg deciding that you owe $maxint in tax

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can actually insure against the tax thing, yes. you just have to have a large enough operation.

asciilifeform: if you're large enough you can 'insure' against anything short of asteroid.

asciilifeform: veeeeery useful to naggum suure.

mircea_popescu: insurance didn't want to pay, wtf it's not meteoric. "hey they came from the sky"

asciilifeform: wat's a peripheral pest ?

mircea_popescu: anyway. asteroid one of the more beloved risks by insurers. rather rare, pretty decent auctuarial tables...

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i meant dinosaur-wiping kind.

asciilifeform: not pissant asteroid.

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Pest control at the home's periphery. Barrier treatment's etc. Pesticide applicator's license seens to have very low barrier to entry.

asciilifeform: same reason every policy i ever took ruled out nuke war

asciilifeform: apparently considered > 0 .

asciilifeform: prolly.

BingoBoingo: Keeps Enclave from having to worry about Lloyd's paying out to the Great Khans

trinque: +asciilifeform │ you did not make anything, really, and you relied on a supply chain that is quite likely unstable, esp. if you become 'interesting' << this is the wrong strategy.

trinque: become interesting, then attract allies that can help you get the rest of the supply chain you need!

asciilifeform: trinque: good in theory, but be sure to invent parachute ~before~ thrown from window

asciilifeform: and not after.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this brings to mind tales of african throwbacks who tried to use condom ~after the fact~ and genuinely believed, i'm told, that it will save them from syphilis/aids/etc

asciilifeform: quite good, i'd love moar.

mircea_popescu: i laid down to sleep and instead had this vision of you know, dreamers fucking around on reddit while suspended in vats,

mircea_popescu: while dudes with socket wrenches roam around the abandoned physical world looking for the better fucktoys in the goop.

asciilifeform: sorta actual world already.

mircea_popescu: if anyone feels like writing into/towards it we could have like one of those sf things.

asciilifeform: and of course perennial favourite in sf.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah it's a kinda usable/powerful metaphor to work on i thought

asciilifeform: incidentally, jp film 'animatrix' is palpably less, imho, retarded, than original american 'matrix'.

asciilifeform: surprisingly.

asciilifeform: (the latter being the ~only recent 'bubble men' trope film of any real fame)

trinque: certainly an immediate - and bleak - visual for the infantile urge to return to the womb

asciilifeform: trinque: see also orwell's 'whale'

mircea_popescu: trinque yeah. and very defensible, too. in principle you could readily sit in there and design robots to protect you even today.

asciilifeform: 'For the fact is that being inside a whale is a very comfortable, cosy, homelike thought. The historical Jonah, if he can be so called, was glad enough to escape, but in imagination, in day-dream, countless people have envied him. It is, of course, quite obvious why. The whale's belly is simply a womb big enough for an adult. There you are, in the dark, cushioned space that exactly fits you, with yards of blubber between yourself and

asciilifeform: reality, able to keep up an attitude of the completest indifference, no matter what happens. A storm that would sink all the battleships in the world would hardly reach you as an echo. Even the whale's own movements would probably be imperceptible to you. He might be wallowing among the surface waves or shooting down into the blackness of the middle seas (a mile deep, according to Herman Melville), but you would never notice the dif

asciilifeform: ference. Short of being dead, it is the final, unsurpassable stage of irresponsibility.'

asciilifeform: noshit.jpg

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:49 asciilifeform: once the gangrene sets in, you either freeze your toolchain or give up work.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455101 << i have a difficult to explain and perhaps dubious proof as to why this imagined future is not a possible future. ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 01:28 phf: i.e. my cmucl runs on a clearly compromised intel cpu and can even do interesting things. imagine future(tm) where only way to run cmucl is by crosscompiling into x86 emulator inside your web browser ;]

asciilifeform: same reason not so many folks running the lispm emulator now.

asciilifeform: (you somehow gotta wind up ~wanting to~ and knowing-it-exists etc)

asciilifeform: orwell actually had a bit re this:

asciilifeform: 'The fallacy is to believe that under a dictatorial government you can be free inside. Quite a number of people console themselves with this thought, now that totalitarianism in one form or another is visibly on the up-grade in every part of the world. Out in the street the loudspeakers bellow, the flags flutter from the rooftops, the police with their tommy-guns prowl to and fro, the face of the Leader, four feet wide, glares from e

asciilifeform: very hoarding; but up in the attics the secret enemies of the regime can record their thoughts in perfect freedom -- that is the idea, more or less. And many people are under the impression that this is going on now in Germany and other dictatorial countries.

asciilifeform: Why is this idea false? I pass over the fact that modern dictatorships don't, in fact, leave the loopholes that the old-fashioned despotisms did; and also the probable weakening of the desire for intellectual liberty owing to totalitarian methods of education. The greatest mistake is to imagine that the human being is an autonomous individual. The secret freedom which you can supposedly enjoy under a despotic government is nonsense,

asciilifeform: because your thoughts are never entirely your own. Philosophers, writers, artists, even scientists, not only need encouragement and an audience, they need constant stimulation from other people. It is almost impossible to think without talking. If Defoe had really lived on a desert island, he could not have written Robinson Crusoe, nor would he have wanted to. Take away freedom of speech, and the creative faculties dry up. Had the Ge

asciilifeform: rmans really got to England my acquaintance of the Cafe Royal would soon have found his painting deteriorating, even if the Gestapo had let him alone. And when the lid is taken off Europe, I believe one of the things that will surprise us will be to find how little worthwhile writing of any kind -- even such things as diaries, for instance -- has been produced in secret under the dictators.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: ^ posted here for the record, apologies for the ~2kb.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't credit his "man needs the herd" nonsense worth halfpence.

asciilifeform: if cut this way - sure.

mircea_popescu: so blair would like an audience. fine. good. i didn't wet my bed as a child.

asciilifeform: but what thinking man needs is not 'the herd' but the other thinking folk.

asciilifeform: i for instance found out that lispm even existed by sheer stroke of luck

asciilifeform: and had to excavate diligently to turn up the necessary materials, i have 0 meatwot connection to the folks who built'em.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can mathematicize as perelman but not engineer.

asciilifeform: the range of what can be effectively hermited is quite finite.

mircea_popescu: he is discussing and i quote " Philosophers, writers, artists, even scientists"

trinque: I ended up writing CL because I got drunk at ben_vulpes' shop one night; knew of it but hadn't bothered with it yet.

asciilifeform: trinque: at least you knew ~somebody~

asciilifeform: who used it.

asciilifeform: you did not have to excavate it from beneath six metres of cement,

asciilifeform: as i had to excavate, e.g., 'Refal'.

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trinque: asciilifeform: sure, and your blog is a big part of why I ended up interested enough to hang around

asciilifeform: neato

mircea_popescu: i also do not credit the "dictatorial education -> no diaries" argument from experience. there are NO BETTER jokes than the ro/ru/etc jokes from that time.

mircea_popescu: on the contrary, the more dictatorially insane the society, the absolutely better the private life.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: none from stalin period.

asciilifeform: and what mircea_popescu thinks of as 'soviet great private life' is all post-'53.

asciilifeform bbl for realz

mircea_popescu: and there's no great american novel ; nor a french dictionary. what of it.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455176 << my damns are a complex echafaudage of roots and smoked mirrors and etc. hard to say how tall what is. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 02:02 asciilifeform: (last i recall mircea_popescu gave somewhere close to 1/10th of a damn, he is to be commended for this)

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455207 << actually the commodization of prepped si is proceeding apace over the years. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 02:14 asciilifeform: you did not make anything, really, and you relied on a supply chain that is quite likely unstable, esp. if you become 'interesting'

mircea_popescu: just like high-performance designer chemistry jumped fro mbeing a well funded uni lab only thing back in 1996 to being accessible to random spammer with a desire to sell temporarily "legal" psychoactives.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455231 << in principle this is an approachable problem, but definitely not before much lower steps such as you know, cardano, isp, etc.\ ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 02:23 phf: so the idea is what drop $500k on an pure documented fpga, hope that maker crowd will help you recoup your costs, use fraction to run tmsr infrastructure? :)

a111: Logged on 2016-04-21 16:33 mircea_popescu: in other news i see phuctor numbers marching steadily up, 440/562 by now ?

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 170141183460469231731687303715884105731 is NOT PRIME ! <<< check out this shit.

mircea_popescu: Bradley R. Smith <brad@cse.ucsc.edu>; Mike Kisser <mtronics@uni.de>; Mike Kisser <mtronics@gmx.net>; Mike Kisser <Mike.Kisser@T-Online.de>; Mike Kisser <mtronics_scs@geocities.com>; Robert Staszewski <monopole@aol.com>; Doc Tomoe <Doc.Tomoe@gmx.de>; Stefan Roehrich <sr@stefan.lake.de>; Sven Martinek <Sven.Martinek@gmx.net>; Sven Martinek <Sven.Martinek@tu-berlin.de>; Sven Martinek <svenmartinek@earthling.net>; Sven Martine

mircea_popescu: k <martinek@rcs.urz.tu-dresden.de>; Sven Martinek <martinek@physik.phy.tu-dresden.de>; Sven Martinek <Sven.Martinek@mailbox.tu-dresden.de>; Michael Reid <mreid@wow.net>; WOW.Net Admin <admin@wow.net>; Armin Herbert <jolo@infra.de>; Armin Herbert <herbert@informatik.uni-freiburg.de>; Martin Spill [High Security]; Walter Forderkunz <Forderkunz@swol.de>; Scheduler Service (MER_Schedule on \\MER_DECXL); George Kenney <gkenney@

mircea_popescu: laser.net>; Robert Fleming <rfleming@opsg.com>; Christopher S. McLeod <cmcleod@teal.csn.net>; Christopher S. McLeod <cmcleod@dunvegan.thornton.co.us>; Marcus Breitenstein <brstein@mvt.tu-cottbus.de>; Greg Louis <glouis@io.org>; Greg Louis <glouis@dynamicro.on.ca>; Greg Louis <glouis@consultronics.on.ca>; Greg Louis <Consultronics Ltd. (905)738-3741>; Urban Gantenberg <ugant@aol.com>; Martin Straeten <straeten@faho.rwth-aach

mircea_popescu: and yet inexplicably i'm sure this will son be was already found-ed and documented by research that nevertheless fails to exist etc.

mircea_popescu: " if the large number N is the product of two primes, p and q, and someone obtains two other numbers, p' and q' which while prime or not nevertheless multiply to the same N, are not they now able to do anything"

mircea_popescu: yes i reckon if they manage this, pulling themselves into orbit can't be far behind

mircea_popescu: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims will be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely

mircea_popescu: to go to Heaven yet at the same time are likelier to make a Hell of earth."

midnightmagic: finally found that draft rfc re: tls non-repudiation extensions: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hajjeh-tls-sign-03

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu now thaaaaaaaaat was fast. dulap stolen AGAIN ?!!!!

asciilifeform: phuctor, boiz and gurlz, you will notice, is down. because the box has been apparently again unplugged.

asciilifeform: FOR FUCKS SAKE

asciilifeform: PING nosuchlabs.com (46.166.165.30) 56(84) bytes of data.

asciilifeform: From GW-DuomenuCentras.retn.net (87.245.242.226): icmp_seq=1 Destination Net Unreachable

asciilifeform: INCIDENTALLY that box never ONCE went down since it was brought up, until now.

asciilifeform: i have nfi what it would take to keep this thing from getting unplugged.

asciilifeform: i will prolly wind up putting it ~in my house~ only to start suffering from mysterious daily fiber cuts.

shinohai: That seems to be the only way to keep it from being diddled with, having physical control of box.

asciilifeform: shinohai: the one problem is that i don't have physical control of whole motherfucking net.

asciilifeform: punkman: this is doable, with the new design, but would do jack shit for making the site stay up.

asciilifeform: punkman: this would deplete the s.nsa piggy pretty quickly

asciilifeform: consider, phuctor is a public service, it makes 0 coin

punkman: more important that phuctoring is uninterrupted than having 24/7 access to website

asciilifeform: punkman: i will note that phuctoring wasn't even ~happening~ yet, it was only filling the tank and running heuristics on keys

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455256 << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450737 same strategies in a scope of a single codebase. naggum came up not for his later escapades (i don't know much about that) but because of his early attempts to fight a braindead internationalization module "MULE" ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 23:01 phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome deprecates their X support at some point

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 03:45 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455044 << i don't comprehend how this can even be a thing.

phf: he forked and maintained his own mule-less emacs, wrote i believe a unicode based i18n module for it, etc.

phf: then wrote a rant how that's unsustainable for a single person on account of having essentially to work as a merge maintainer for a dozen of projects

phf: you have a changing subtrate, changing interfaces. you can hot iron parts while it's at a manageable size and localized, but at some point you start dealing with systemd type situation where the tendrils are inside either the code that you use OR inside the subtrate/interfaces part (i.e. connection to outside world)

phf: but freezing effectively implies lockstep freezing of the whole environment, to hardware. ("oh we deprecated x11, your code better support wayland. oh this new video card only supports wayland, since x11 is deprecated, etc."] ☟︎

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu phuctor back - looks like it is merely under epic ddos

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455447 << i don't believe in this futureeither, it's orwell silly. but much more realistic is something like what i described above. you buy "current hardware", you can't boot foolinux, because need bios keys, need to boot redhat. redhat supports your video card, but only in wayland, and the keyboard only works through modern-udev. both require vendor provided binary blobs. etc. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 04:33 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455101 << i have a difficult to explain and perhaps dubious proof as to why this imagined future is not a possible future.

asciilifeform: phf: we ~nearly already have this.

asciilifeform: consider all of the crud hardware that only really fully works under winblowz or crapple's os.

asciilifeform: and yes, some of it also runs under 'linux' - see the excellent example of the samsung chromebook, which i bought some years ago and tried to civilize

asciilifeform: it - nominally - runs gentoo.

asciilifeform: but GO AND TRY to put your own ACTUAL gentoo on it.

asciilifeform: without google's blobs.

asciilifeform: occasionally.

asciilifeform: and yes you have to freeze the hardware.

shinohai: Got a template you can send me or something? I've just been writing everything in vi

mircea_popescu: punkman> could have various proxies, mpex-style <<< yeah, the republic will start printing bitcoin to finance an inept war with the idiot us, because the us is caught in dreams of its war with the soviet union and its delusional relevancy therein.

shinohai: <img class="alignleft" src="http://qntra.net/bundles/bharara.jpg" alt="Evil" width="156" height="156" /> <<< top kek BingoBoingo

mircea_popescu: phf i meant something specific : how can a "mode" be "replaced". sounds to me (prolly proof of my ignorance) like "blue colors have been deprecated in irssi". dude... what ? it's my fucking config file.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. let it be, ~nobody cares about ddos. it is expensive enough to engage in and we really don't gas.

mircea_popescu: phf i don't see how that is different from, "you buy fruit juicer, you can't play dos games on it". yes ?

mircea_popescu: appreciate, i had a computer EVEN WHEN it was ~5k DM and the going rate was half-and-half for 5. and i'm sure that at some point between then and now, some poor black kid in the sticks somewhere wanted a computer only to hear "da fuck ya want dat witey shit fo boe!" from his momma and get to play casino gems on her knockoff smartphone instead.

mircea_popescu: this notion that "every squishi wizard" must have access to the light bolt spell is lulzy, to me.

mircea_popescu: but if i were somehow persuaded to care - frankly i'm inclined to believe making computers cow-accessible was a horrible fucking idea.

mircea_popescu: wikipedia is not better for pretending every imbecile is "an editor", it's way the fuck worse. the internet did not gain from the "collected intelligence and experience of the whole world", it turned into a cesspool instead.

mircea_popescu: adding more engineers to a late project makes it later ; adding more bipedal mouthbreathers to anything makes it resemble shit closer.

mircea_popescu: understand - at some point in my life, "owning a computer" as opposed to a speccy, or a video game console, was a social selection bar SO HIGH that out of my entire preppiest-school-in-town it selected for TWO PEOPLE.

phf: sure, and you can tell that to americans in the audience, but that's not the issue i'm talking about

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we actually had an 'iskra' (pseudo-8086)

asciilifeform: but it was already ~1990

phf: i'm saying that 80s general purpose computers existed because of wide open possibility space. "let's built this generic computron" "alan turing" all that

asciilifeform: (parentz had connections)

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and i was too dumb to do much with the machine. such is life.

mircea_popescu: this is just one of many possible ideological colors that may be retrospectively applied.

phf: sure, i don't myself grok the cause. i'm more saying that 80s general purpose computer is a time and place kind of phenomenon

phf: now it's starting to look that new hardware, be it for the select elite or plebs is not going to be general purpose in that same sense, because interested parties figured out what kind of constraints are desirable or tolerable

mircea_popescu: if this is true then any handwringing of any sort is an exercise in insanity.

phf: back then a working cpu at capacity was the point, we have floating point here now, gives wider possibility space, etc.

phf: now a working cpu comes preinstalled with all the gunk that various parties decided is needed, over the course of past 20 years

mircea_popescu: i tell you honestly if i were to go on a mountaintop now, IF i considered taking a computer AT ALL

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but the general-purpose thing cannot be given away.

asciilifeform: it is not ground that can be yielded.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this stand would be a lot more defensible if general purpose computing made a sense!

asciilifeform: roughly, means 'machine where you can implement new crypto', for mircea_popescu's purposes.

asciilifeform: it only makes sense when examined in light of the OPPOSITE

asciilifeform: which is usgtronic, nintendoized computing

asciilifeform: where proggy won't run unless signed by microshit.

asciilifeform: 'general-purpose' simply means NOT THAT.

asciilifeform: it is a term of art.

asciilifeform: not philosophical.

mircea_popescu: understand : just because you don't get to have "general purpose hole", it is not automatically thereby proven "enemy gets black hole"

asciilifeform: very specific, earthly.

asciilifeform: as a matter of fact it is.

asciilifeform: which is why all machines made before, e.g., 1995, are 'general purpose'

mircea_popescu: as a matter of fact it may appear, but a negative lacks the definition capacity.

phf: well, we don't have a definition, i don't think "we" have ever arrived at a point where definition can be provided. what constitutes a general purpose computer, which are necessary/unnecessary parts. i'm reading 80s vlsi papers and it's all up in the air. should there be math coprocessor or bake it right into cpu, etc. etc. and then you have a "microcomputer revolution", when bill/steve start selling this shit to masses

mircea_popescu: and the problems with "roughly, means 'machine where you can implement new crypto', for mircea_popescu's purposes" should be obvious to someone who astutely points out that there's no math proof for crypto. the same thinking that works there works here, it does not follow i need computers redditard can buy to exist in order for to have crypto.

asciilifeform: phf: fpga. is the only reasonable definition.

phf: so at this point when i or ascii talk about general purpose, it is in terms of negative, a doomed attempt to undo past 20 years to continue r&d that was killed

mircea_popescu: phf i insist on this point to impress upon the more decisive elements exactly how weak a basis for discernment we actually have.

mircea_popescu: it is them, after all, throwing abundant resources in the chase of a pipe dream.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you might not need '$1 computer redditard could buy', but if your only shot at computer was to bake own vlsi in the kitchen, you'd prolly use vernam pad and be done with it.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what if i, unlike you, that enjoys people, knows for a fact that any item the government nominally owns is mine for the taking ?

mircea_popescu: much like any young hussy theoretically owned by her father is really really desperate to give the show away ?

asciilifeform: this works great when there is something to take

asciilifeform: like my father took the iskra

mircea_popescu: not take in that sense necessarily. that is take of the sort of people who read trilema and "take" some part to put on their own blog.

asciilifeform: the usg 'mistresses' all have syphilis.

mircea_popescu: she cooks you a meal like she does every day, i happen to be in town, come by and eat it, you come home and oops, she forgot this time

mircea_popescu: and you'll have to "forgive" her, because she does your laundry. fuck you.

asciilifeform: translate into concretes plox ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu comes to ft meade and the monkeys make him a personal cray-II from spare partz ?

asciilifeform: and he takes it home.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: to crypto on it ?

asciilifeform: or will you send plaintext to the monkeys to encipher for you ?

mircea_popescu: phf it's not an equivalent of anything. the important point here is that from experience, this rubber band is very slippery. there is no such thing as "tight"

asciilifeform: or hell, you wanna play eulora

asciilifeform: what, monkeys will print out each frame and mail to you ?

asciilifeform: or what, a eulora can exist on planet with 5 computers ?

mircea_popescu: eulora is a particularly miserable example, in general games by shrewd companies benefit rather than suffer from locked down markets.

asciilifeform: until microshit says 'pay 500k usd for a signing key or go fuck yerself'

mircea_popescu: which is why people in 1800 could live well "writing for the newspaper" and ditzy sluts today can't.

asciilifeform: like crapple.

mircea_popescu: yes, will say to you. and i'm thankful for it, less crud to compete with. it'll be either buy microsoft fly sim or eulora. hurrr.

phf: mircea_popescu: it's the strategic superiority article's position is what i'm saying. you can rig up ipad to do crypto for you, as long as you shield it in a bunker, install some toy language environment on it and spend some time writing rsa algo in that

mircea_popescu: phf that's still not the level of discussion here. yes i'm not entirely blockheaded, i understand THAT angle of it. the point is the other angle however. take all the drm adventures : in spite of all the effort AND proprietary hardware, i can still get any film i want

mircea_popescu: people in the empire are dumb enough to buy, TO BUY, for MONEY, "copy protection" that i can take out with a magic marker. you grok this ?

mircea_popescu: nor do they have the optionalities you imagine for them, it's not a case of "republic, on imperial steroidal vitamins".

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: go and jailbreak, e.g., 'ipNohe 6', with magic marker.

asciilifeform: (a new break is discovered 1-2/year and is worth $sixfigs)

phf: but i'm not attributing any agency to the republic, i'm observing and commenting on a tendency

mircea_popescu: phf well he's attributing some agency to "the enemy", except imo the wrong sort.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you imagine the same would stay true once every usg item had to use ipad 6 for lack of alternative, and in ALL applications ? phones, servers, metal detectors, everything, ipad 6 ?

mircea_popescu: the ~only reason they can keep it together is that they get to define the tasks they want to solve.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox sign for me something with microshit's master key then ?

asciilifeform: that 'once usg requires that every...'

asciilifeform: pirated.

asciilifeform: but NOT 'signing key stolen'

asciilifeform: it never had serious copy protection.

asciilifeform: and copy protection is a red herring anyway

mircea_popescu: the argument is here that a) that joke passed for serious back then ; b) there can not be such a thing as "serious" in this application.

asciilifeform: the thing they ACTUALLY want is precisely to prevent folks from running unauthorized SELF-WRITTEN proggy.

phf: i think my lament is that the possibility space is closing, the kind of substrate that allows for a global optimization problem like "pirated movies" to resolve is being gradually eliminated in a counter optimization. i'm warning a potential collapse, mp's arguing that the space is always open

mircea_popescu: phf your measure of "open" is always going to be flawed, in the sense that it's a version of "general fights last war".

asciilifeform: a self-written proggy is an 'unknown unknown'

mircea_popescu: you don't know what to measure, because open means, definitionally, exactly this.

mircea_popescu: so as time goes by, any arbitrary definition of open must converge to closed.

asciilifeform: phf: except that they don't

asciilifeform: and this is poppycock

mircea_popescu: so much so the more astute artists actually use it as a characterisation device.

asciilifeform: well it is poppycock, thermodynamics has as much to do with the closing of computer as SR has to do with 'cultural relativity'

mircea_popescu: under discussion was not "the closinbg of computer" but "the measure of open"

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how are these distinct ?

asciilifeform: trinque: very basic open - can you 'turingcomplete' on it.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you are engaging in the behaviour you derride re folks making cryptosystems, and in spades!

asciilifeform: as in, can you load in own soft that runs with same privileges as the 'official' item.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how's that

phf: asciilifeform: that's insufficient even for our immediate needs. you can turingcomplete on it, but so can nsa

asciilifeform: phf: which is why i said 'own soft with same privilege'

asciilifeform: optionally in place of ~all~ of the vendor's.

asciilifeform: but to see precisely what i meant, and i worked for years to rigorously define it,

mircea_popescu: now hush about all this and go make me actual homomorphic encryption so i can compute platform-independent.

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284

asciilifeform: ^ precisely what means 'open'.

mircea_popescu: you understand that just as there's no bridge between "this is what math says" and "this is what our cryptosystem does", there's no bridge between the words you use ?

mircea_popescu: let's start with something simple : open and closed do not stand in opposition.

asciilifeform: and no there will not be a mathematical definition. any more than there is of, e.g., 'train'.

mircea_popescu: they are not even the same kind. open is a measure of an undefined property.

asciilifeform: (what's a train? how many people it has to carry? what of tanker cars? etc)

mircea_popescu: there is no way, nor could there be a way, for you to put these two in a syllogism.

mircea_popescu: there is a definition of train, quite mathematical : if the driving power is transmitted via tyre, you have a car. if transmitted via rigid assemblage - track. if transmitted via rigid assemblage working against a rail - train.

phf: well, perhaps this argument is frustrating because we arguing that certain kind of space is closing, and you seem to be responding with but everything's always open

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: maglev is also train...

mircea_popescu: phf it's not "but everything's always open", it's more "the reason this space is closing is because losing relevancy, and you'd be fools to focus on it if true"

asciilifeform: this is actually specifically where we disagree.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not only maglev : but the driving TRAIN. and for this reason.

asciilifeform: i see programmable comp as a cornerstone of thinking man, same as clean sheets of paper and pen

asciilifeform: i'm not interested in pashtun 'thought'.

asciilifeform: man as man, vs shaved monkey, begins with writing.

asciilifeform: birch bark.

asciilifeform pictures bitch bark

mircea_popescu: anyway, the economic issues are incontrovertible. the "general computer" as killer micro is an 80s thing because white people were not mentally ill and mentally retarded then.

mircea_popescu: today, they are. they will not be able to support this. no matter what you do, they aren't smart enough for it.

mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no reason to have computers in shop like bread and porn mags.

asciilifeform: this, i think, is beyond dispute.

asciilifeform: i never asked for computer we can have 10 billion of.

asciilifeform: 10 thou - yes.

asciilifeform: 1 per actual person.

mircea_popescu: "we" as in, the relevant part of the species, tried this whole "every life is precious - every life is sacred" thing. because we got scared of ww2, and bla bla.

mircea_popescu: it came to its bitter end, in wikipedia articles, reddit and twitter opinions, and so on and so forth.

asciilifeform: no argument!

asciilifeform: so asciilifeform, phf, ben_vulpes, et al still need their bulldozers.

mircea_popescu: in some manner or other, "common man" that "just wanted to" will crash against the wall of "wot or take a hike"

asciilifeform: common man took a hike long ago when he went with microshit.

asciilifeform: question is about the remainder.

mircea_popescu: and the ploy to convince them that the way into the future is "being anonymous", and especially THE FACT THAT IT WORKS is no end of high comedy

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of microshit and all that : the experience of this alikim fellow in #eulora constituted a shattering moment for me. so, let me summarize :

asciilifeform: the one in 'of the slave' article on mircea_popescu's site ?

mircea_popescu: yes, him. so guy comes in, he's well spoken and clearly competent, has a lot of experience wit hgaming. strictly in windows.

mircea_popescu: runs into trouble with data interchange, such as for instance going from csv to sql takes him hours of hand labour

mircea_popescu: and in the end ? alikim "the trouble" or rather a sad fact is that instead of maintaining one resource everyone maintains their own

mircea_popescu: basically, guy's problem is that eulora is unworkable because IT IS NOT CENTRALIZED ENOUGH.

asciilifeform: on that benighted planet, where winblowz rules, getting ANYTHING done is such a titanic effort that, yes,

asciilifeform: gotta centralize.

asciilifeform: it follows from their braindamage.

asciilifeform: see, 'alikimbecause it takes alot of time to scrap of the bits and pieces scattered across the internet into something useful'

mircea_popescu: imagine that, he found bugs in my fucking client, and i mean that plural. yet... in the end... he can't work with it because he's from windows, and the requirements that puts on him are not merely "well you gotta convert to sql for mysql"

asciilifeform: actually most of my sweat on getting phuctor into a reliable state was re sql

asciilifeform: i never actually before or since used any sql !

asciilifeform: but i did not complain.

asciilifeform: because wtf, it is a basic thing, everyone ELSE on planet, knew it!

mircea_popescu: no but i don't say to disparage. i say to explain. for him, this makes sense.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have worked with winblowz refugees

asciilifeform: it takes a great deal of time to cure such a man

asciilifeform: but when cured, they are as able as anyone

mircea_popescu: so THIS is perhaps the strongest argument i see against my earlier position.

mircea_popescu: the fact is that living among idiots damages the brain. ask ustard kids about us history, you'll hear some lulz.

asciilifeform: some appreciable number of folk are 'in the jail, but not OF it'

mircea_popescu: the only problem being, of course, that the cure to living among idiots is to stop living among idiots, it can't be resolved with some sort of peculiar computing choice or other.

asciilifeform: thing is, as amply described on trilema, even mircea_popescu 'lives among idiots'

mircea_popescu: and the whole discussion re systemd above is quite germane : even "with" this so called "general purpose in the sense of we dunno what exacrtly" computer of today,

asciilifeform: but he has a good gas mask.

asciilifeform: depends what means 'maintain', no?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: full-body condom

asciilifeform: cosmonaut..

trinque: if there are 10k computer users in the world, how many of them to allocate to gentoo maintenance?

asciilifeform: trinque: 0

mircea_popescu: trinque the idea more or less is that once you get rid of the power rangers, maintenance becomes 10k easier a task.

mircea_popescu: this is evident in, for instance, rms' early writings about "hacking" at mit or wherever.

mircea_popescu: absent the ovester feminists and other idiots who wanted to cheerlead because it was popular,

mircea_popescu: they could actually engage in coding so much so permisionless fs were better.

mircea_popescu: there's a huge difference at work between situation 1. "i'll explain what he did AND I KNOW he'll apologize" and 2. "i won't even explain because i know he won't even understand".

asciilifeform: like villages with no locks on doors, aha ☟︎

mircea_popescu: while you can rely on 1 you have one environment, and it's what the boys here miss. not "general purpose computer"

asciilifeform: i like to call people who by their very presence make various constructive activities impossible, 'neutron absorbers' ☟︎

asciilifeform: if you somehow eliminate them, you get entirely different world.

trinque: I'd love for that thing to be on entirely *specific* hardware that does only that, perfectly

asciilifeform: trinque: this is sitting on my desk, quietly.

asciilifeform: trinque: iirc i described it.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform think about this for a second. so ms makes its windows key ; and i make my short run mp key. why not ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because on that planet i would not have learned to computer and would not be speaking.

asciilifeform: not even then.

asciilifeform: because 'to computer' in this sense ~means~ to pluck machine from junkyard etc.

mircea_popescu: so you find a discarded mp-signed bios and turn it on and it prompts you to make a key and heck... wtf is this.

asciilifeform: how often kidz now find jailbroken pNohe etc

asciilifeform: realize we aren't speaking of hypotheticals

asciilifeform: that future ~already~ is here.

asciilifeform: which is why there are no folks younger than, what, 20, here. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: no, the reason there's no folks younger than 20 here is because folks younger than 20 are retarded.

asciilifeform: all of us grew outside of the jails.

asciilifeform: but ~why~ are they retarded ?

asciilifeform: aha, and in ro you had z80

asciilifeform: which was not jailed.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for the same reason roman youth was retarded. because people are born retarded and it washes off slowly.

asciilifeform: i had 8086 in su, and, funnily, 6510 here.

asciilifeform: also not jailed.

trinque: so then, perhaps *I* own a computer and he may use it via gossipd if he doesn't piss me off

trinque: would his experience of the thing be general purpose, or would it be constrained by me

mircea_popescu: in short, we're ideologically in this funny position where on one hand we want to bake bitcoin miners straight into silicone, and this is fine and good ; then enemy wants to make signable hardware and THIS IS EVIL. but it is on one hand what we do, on the other hand unavoidable due to the idiots and on the third hand perfectly ignorable. so they make theirs and we make ours and whoopdedoo.

mircea_popescu: we've already agreed this "general computer" is idiocy, what's all the agitation about. it still is.

asciilifeform: i don't care what the enemy bakes for own use

asciilifeform: the only problem is that he has 100% of the fab capacity

asciilifeform: and free world - 0%.

asciilifeform: this is why the existence of nintendos was not an evil until they approached becoming the ~only available~ machine.

mircea_popescu: as it is today, chinese plants run two shifts a day to make iphones for apple and one shift to make bootlegs for themselves.

asciilifeform: chinese plants, american toolchain.

asciilifeform: bring me one with mircea_popescu's key in mask rom then

asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu understand lithography ? you can't make 1.

asciilifeform: can make 1mil.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> this is why the existence of nintendos was not an evil until they approached becoming the ~only available~ machine. <<< "only available machine" here means something very marketing-driven

mircea_popescu: we specifically do not care of this nonsense, we are not feeding the consumers.

asciilifeform: i get this.

asciilifeform: but the $10k cpu has not yet been invented.

asciilifeform: there only exist 10 cent and 100 million ones.

mircea_popescu: da fuck i care that the mpstation is 500 and the just-as-good shitstation is 19.95

asciilifeform: 500 is closer to the ten cent.

asciilifeform: this is one of those 'dead middle' items.

asciilifeform: from thread 2 yrs ago.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand something fundamental. if the whole blockchain takes 200 yottahashes to dig up, one block still only costs you 200 yottahashes / 60 * 10, ie 0.15%

mircea_popescu: the factories will be there to make the shit, and an eight hour run in one will still be 1/1000 or less.

asciilifeform: why will they be there ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu will personally maintain them ?

asciilifeform: ok this is the part where i'm lost

asciilifeform: how do we benefit from nintendo/crapple's scale ?

asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu grasp how ic fab tooling works ?

mircea_popescu: because same board with the signed bios can be made with... different key.

asciilifeform: key - in mask rom.

asciilifeform: do you know what is a mask rom ?

asciilifeform: hardwired pattern, aha

asciilifeform: lithographically.

asciilifeform: so i would like to see mircea_popescu actually sneak something into a mil+ items production line

mircea_popescu: this argument is rapidly collapsing into a "these damned dentists moved from using fireplace tools to actual dentist's chairs, and i won't have one at home and i won't ever be able to have teeth or chew now"

mircea_popescu: "but those fucking hurt" "fuck you, evil guy" "but i need them for dentistry, for uterine retraction, for" "FUCK YOU!!!!"

asciilifeform: specious analogy.

mircea_popescu: the only specious thing here is the strange notion that somehow they'll get aliens to do the work in alien ways forever.

asciilifeform: there is nothing advantageous about the non-programmable computer being the only available.

asciilifeform: other than to hitler.

asciilifeform: fact is, in '09 there was the freedom to write, e.g., bitcoin.

asciilifeform: and in 2029 probably will not be.

mircea_popescu: there is ~no possibility of this sort of evolution, and what more can be said.

asciilifeform: unless you are mircea_popescu and can take over a whole fab.

mircea_popescu: but if you ARENT they why the fuck whine, clearly your notions aren't worth the fab time!

mircea_popescu: at the absolute very least you should be able to get a university in fucking brazil with a key ffs.

mircea_popescu: which is exactly hoiw all the shit we use now was written i nthe first fucking place.

mircea_popescu: and also back when going on the internet was, technically, fraud and theft, the internet WAS ACTUALLY WORTH FUCKING STEALING

asciilifeform: aha but then you had to steal a million.

asciilifeform: now - billion.

asciilifeform: and for some reason mircea_popescu is reluctant to confront the fact that even he can only remotely afford fab time because it is subsidized by the drool of a billion 'konsooomerz'

asciilifeform: otherwise it would cost as mars launch costs.

asciilifeform: and he would write on parchment

asciilifeform: and communicate with other mircea_popescus via pigeon.

mircea_popescu: neither c, nor unix, nor lisp for that matter were written by people who had computers at home. you understand this, right ?

asciilifeform: arguably if richie and pike hadn't been able to find a junkyard pdp, we would also be better off.

asciilifeform: rubbish computers take their toll.

mircea_popescu: better off in the sense of same exact bitcoin maaaaaybe coupla years later [or coupla decades earlier ?] and we wouldn't be in THIS position

mircea_popescu: we'd be in the position were we'd be humble followers on the much cooler tmsr bbs.

asciilifeform: tricky bit

asciilifeform: how much is it 'bitcoin' if you only have a dozen relays ?

asciilifeform: if a miner exists in 3 universities ?

asciilifeform: you get 'swift'

asciilifeform: but how is that bitcoin ?

mircea_popescu: which is why i'm fuckign thankful the obedient horde country collapses already.

asciilifeform: in other nyooz, 2nd batch of keyz loading in.

mircea_popescu: imagine - as a plot for a very cool sfish thing - that real-world 1984 SU actually had bitcoin invented by one of the guys there, and the cause of the collapse was the fight between the intellectuals and the bolsheviks

asciilifeform: (currently deduplicating)

mircea_popescu: i find it particularly concerning that at the one point in history science fiction need not to any degree and in any sense mean future

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i prolly oughta implement paged views.

asciilifeform: (~900+ braindamaged keyz alone, etc)

asciilifeform: and/or that.

asciilifeform: waiwut

asciilifeform: ah the product

asciilifeform: it is impractically large, i thought about regenning it weekly and putting up torrent perhaps

asciilifeform: it is heavy.

asciilifeform: plan is i revv up the engine some time late tomorrow.

asciilifeform: it is to be a massive batch factor thing. ☟︎

asciilifeform: (bernstein's method)

asciilifeform: all at once, as tree, rather than 1 at a time.

asciilifeform: well there will be round 2, with an sks dump that isn't circa 2014.

asciilifeform: but after that yeah

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: realize that the thing isn't actually phuctoring in the traditional sense atm

asciilifeform: it is heuristically walking the mods

asciilifeform: and yeah adding them to db, annotating the 'notes' etc

asciilifeform: which?

mircea_popescu: given X as the total count of moduli bytes, what is the formula to extract the time for ideal machine running ideal algo

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very difficult to say exact theta.

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 6703903964971298549787012499102923063739682910296196688861780721860882015036773488400937149083451713845015929093243025426876941405973284973216824503042051 is NOT PRIME !

asciilifeform: mega-primez.

asciilifeform: check if it's coprime with his modulus 1st

asciilifeform: betcha it ain't

asciilifeform: (it IS possible to operate with a key having nonprime e, but NOT if it isn't comprime with modulus!111)

asciilifeform: you don't get a unique inverse !

asciilifeform: pull out a napkin, do this, you will enjoy.

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 80792515178277518251787191721674879901110256674288710080325863568811637847169727232993003528807283659221794902304745048735298897876227302737720380966120707801577193418252490229375494375974130266990144095960168920691980546606549390404595235846190426176454114630090762607218939728852664521518880997809825963804785833474170856051712436966411423737140440088315805145194514148327565481771150785375646482160442791814859

mircea_popescu: 00929615464339399587788075411476100924403308321807806781421177705052431289275431732830867419635645164174483761499317088249659553881291597359333885900533858307401161329619651238037048388963402764899057665 is NOT PRIME !

asciilifeform: betcha these overflow on some godforsaken winblowz pseudopgptron.

asciilifeform: try downloading the key (hit button on the bottom of page)

asciilifeform: and encrypto to it !

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 281479271743489 is NOT PRIME ! Modulus has mirrored low-order 32 bits ! << a nice!

mircea_popescu: lrh@primenet.com host smtp1.mke.securence.com [204.11.209.99] SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data: 554 no valid recipients, bye

asciilifeform: l0ltr0n1c

asciilifeform: subprimez!

asciilifeform: i actually wanted phuctor.nosuchlabs.com ☟︎

asciilifeform: and i put in, believe it, a a-record update

asciilifeform: but apparently namecheap is a cesspool

asciilifeform: it is ~2days now and nothing.

asciilifeform: yeah but this is a new wtf low.

asciilifeform: the update shows up on their www panel

asciilifeform: but not elsewhere.

asciilifeform: unrelatedly, trb has been up for 100+ consecutive dayz there.

asciilifeform: as in, 0 interruption.

asciilifeform: afaik this is record.

asciilifeform: unrelatedly, the bicycle cheat thing apparently has been a crackpot hypothesis for ~years, 'mechanical doping', and it has come out ~how~ it was done

asciilifeform: at least 2 had the magnetized wheel arrangement

asciilifeform: others - thin, long motor in ~shaft~ of bike

asciilifeform: with very thin shaft leading through where the pedals mount

asciilifeform: i recognized the motor immediately from the photo

asciilifeform: it is, i think, a 'maxon'

asciilifeform: they are made in switzerland. i had just such a motor in the 'tecan' robot.

asciilifeform: very spiffy motor.

asciilifeform: someone put 3d model on 'youtube'

asciilifeform: worm gear.

mircea_popescu: the main advantage of magnetic being obviously that no need to gear the "motor"

asciilifeform: apparently nobody expected thermovisor.

asciilifeform: which, incidentally, is a great tool for 1,001 jobs

asciilifeform: e.g., for squatters, or burglars

asciilifeform: to learn which houses are empty

asciilifeform: they had concealed switch in handlebar.

asciilifeform: in at least one case

asciilifeform: in others, it was based on clinometer, i think

asciilifeform: 'cheas as much as humanly possible, then in your wolf form, cheat moar!111'

asciilifeform: *cheat

asciilifeform: i always thought it was peculiar that the bike folk get to use own machines

asciilifeform: one would imagine, naively, that they would draw lots and pick one from a set, like dueling pistols

asciilifeform: http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/news/how-does-mechanical-doping-work << photo, apparently.

asciilifeform: ' Van den Driessche and her father deny any intent to cheat and say that the situation was a mix-up: A friend’s bike outfitted with a motor was mistakenly brought to the pits. ' << l0lz

mircea_popescu: what else are they goinna say, "my daughter is ten bucks a lay, free blowjobs on sunday, call now" ?

phf: "man, i'm ~killing~ it today, say, did i accidentally grab my buddies motorized bike??? naaawww"

asciilifeform: phf: note that you cannot buy ~these~ motor bikes in a store.

asciilifeform: the japanese ones have larger, ~external~ motor

asciilifeform: moar power, easier repair, etc.

asciilifeform: the intricately crafted hidden motor exists only to cheat in race.

asciilifeform: it is of very little use to a ben_vulpes commuting to his sweatshop on bike etc.

phf: "femke, my fellow biking aficionado, i built a motorized bike but the kicker, nobody can tell you're using one. say, you want to borrow it for a few weeks? say put it in your fleet of racing bikes?"

asciilifeform: somehow i recall the thread where mircea_popescu explained 'caught thief's justifications'

asciilifeform: 'not my pants, not my arse, not my knife, wasn't me'

mircea_popescu: Pirate: How dare you molest the whole world? Because I do it with a small boat, I am called a pirate and a thief. You, with a great navy, molest the world and are called an emperor."

asciilifeform: 'he had it coooming! he had it commming! he only had himself to blaaame! if y'dhve been there! if you;'dve seen it! you know that you would have done! the same! ' (tm) (r)

asciilifeform: aha everyone i think knows this story

mircea_popescu: everyone may know it, but no one has come up with an answer worth two shits, which is how memory hole became required bug-that's-a-feature in modern man mental programming.

asciilifeform: hey, easy in 2012 !111

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455689 << Still done. Actually seems to be done now as well as it is every done. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 15:26 trinque: back when windows mattered it was trivially and ubiquitously pirated

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: winblowz was always deliberately and uniquitously pirated, it is how microshit propagates.

asciilifeform: *piratable

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455829 << One aunt and uncle locked thier house for the first time in a decade this weekend. ☝︎

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455861 << The devthedev kid who wrote a bit for early qntra is still under 18! ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 16:02 asciilifeform: which is why there are no folks younger than, what, 20, here.

shinohai: I know I'm ocd about such things, I chided mod6 about foundation site earlier this week.

BingoBoingo: <trinque> was this the one BingoBoingo said was a furry? << Twas Rassah was the furvert

asciilifeform: crayon: yer welcome

asciilifeform: $up crayon

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah but this "X was done because Y wanted to but X' won't be done because Y doesn't want to" is still as lulzy as ever.

mircea_popescu: usg.microsoft, usg.apple, usg.nsa, usg.sfpd along with usg.* are still our little bitch.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo> Stopped writing because he discovered gurlz. << one of the better reasons.

mircea_popescu: in other phuctor news (omfg this site is like perpetual xmas tree, i keep going there for presents multiple times a day), what the fuck is with all the ssh keys with exponent = 35

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 16385 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Anarchist Hackers Revolutionary Movement; << hopefully hablan ex-panhole. el hackeo es lucha por hoy & por siempre.

mircea_popescu: i would think this is definitionally lame, "o hey check out my pgp key with the cool domain and the shitty exponent".

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 3843875385 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Mike Doty <mdoty@tavros.net>; Mike Doty <mike@uberslacks.com>; Mike Doty (http://dev.gentoo.org/~kingtaco/) <kingtaco@gentoo.org>;

mircea_popescu: phf if it's rsa, it's food. alf the beedog is serious about bee's knees like that.

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 16385 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Security; Northrop Grumman PGP Root-CA; TRW-Root-CA - TRW/SEG/ITS/IS <trw-root-ca@trw.com>;

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo : you got your qntra piece right there. "Phuctor, the RSA Super-Collider discovers vulnerability in Northrop Grumman PGP Root-CA "

mircea_popescu: "May First/People Link engages in building movements by advancing the strategic use and collective control of technology for local struggles, global transformation, and emancipation without borders. Flowing from that mission, our organization redefines the concept of “Internet Service Provider” in a collective and collaborative way. Like any democratic membership organization, we gather together each year to evaluate the

mircea_popescu: past year’s experiences, plan the coming year’s work and elect a Leadership Committee to apply what we’ve decided. Like a coop, we pay dues, buy equipment and then we all use that equipment as we need to for websites, email, email lists, and just about everything else we do on the Internet. As a movement organization, we participate in (and often lead) campaigns, struggles, coalitions and network of left, progressive an

mircea_popescu: d social justice organizations in the U.S., Mexico and Internationally. Learn more about our organization by reading our official documents."

mircea_popescu: root@luisa.mayfirst.org; root@dolores.mayfirst.org; ssh://galeano.mayfirst.org; root@menchu.mayfirst.org; ssh://bernice.mayfirst.org; ssh://chun.mayfirst.org; root@leslie.mayfirst.org;

mircea_popescu: organisation 100% fucked up by the 35 exponent. possibly we found the intended victim of that ?

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 16385 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Louis C. LaCour, Jr. <lacourlc@mail.arlaw.com>;

phf: i'd look at the date of that key though, whether it's hot, or we're just looking at an old trail

mircea_popescu: let's play a little "guess the address of the scum pond" : Should an RSA public exponent be prime?

mircea_popescu: 1. Technical answer: an RSA public exponent needs to be coprime with the modulus, which is not the same as requiring that it be prime.

mircea_popescu: 2. Pragmatic answer: prime numbers are generally coprime with the modulus, and so they're an easy answer, and so RSA public exponents tend to be prime.

mircea_popescu: 3. Best-practice answer: just use 65537, in all cases. The other popular answer is 3, which is mathematically fine, but leaves less room for implementation error; there are some implementation flaws for which attacks are untenable with e=65537.

mircea_popescu: 4. Long-term answer: don't use RSA. RSA is well on its way to obsolescence. Most problems you'd ever want to solve with RSA are better solved with Curve25519 (for DH) and Ed25519 (for signing). Not coincidentally, these are the algorithms implemented by Nacl, the only crypto library you should consider using.

mircea_popescu: 5. Scolding answer: if you have to ask, please don't try to implement any of this yourself. It is very difficult to get RSA right.

mircea_popescu: phf seeing how they aren'\t paying me to secure them, whether it's hot or cold makes no diff.

mircea_popescu: also compare and contrast with the centralizing windows mind discussed earlier today.

mircea_popescu: some people just LIKE to see stuff like " just use 65537" " just use nacl" etc.

mircea_popescu: yeah why i said pretty thoroughly infested. and since few others have the 35 problem...

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 21 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): AvaCam <avacam@geocities.com>; << wasn't this one of the early camhos ?!

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 35 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): ssh://2nieqevdp67ck5gr.onion; << i dun use tor, anyonr that does care to screrenshot a page ?

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 3765668207 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Walther Mayer <walther.mayer@web.de>;

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 4202608123 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Walther Mayer <walther.mayer@web.de>; << poor guy, just can't catch a break.

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 13905337 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Kerper Markus VWPKI 55FB65E9923146B0 <markus.kerper@volkswagen.de>;

mircea_popescu: Eng Seng ONG (Sydney, NSW, Australia) <esong@mensa.org.au>; Public Exponent 2441348387 is NOT PRIME ! Public Exponent 2884952233 is NOT PRIME ! << this looks like yet another class of different weird e's, perhaps deliberate.

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 65 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): HP Security Response Team (SIGNING ONLY) <security-alert@hp.com>; <<< ahahahaha

mircea_popescu: Public Exponent 4230764437 is NOT PRIME ! User(s): Soren Hansen <sh@warma.dk>; Soren Hansen <sh@linux2go.dk>; Soren Hansen <soren@ubuntu.com>; Soren Hansen <shawarma@ubuntu.com>; Soren Hansen <soren@canonical.com>; Soren Hansen <soren.hansen@canonical.com>;

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have nfi why everyone instantly convinced that the key belongs to northropg