assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00056824 = 6.7621 BTC [+] {4}
ben_vulpes: mats: the expanse is a surprisingly high-quality-for-such-a-low-budget scifi flick
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00056425 = 2.6238 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: the nullg scenes are judiciously placed for effect most of the time
ben_vulpes: for instance the blood cloud that collapsed when the martian warship began its burn was pretty good
ben_vulpes: but the drifting thinger in the cabin of episode 7? 6? was hilariously bad.
mats: i finished Leviathan Wakes, didn't get around to the others, but i will now
mats: i know enough physics to put my pants on in the morning
ben_vulpes: "and enough statistics to place myself at the top of the bell curve"
mats: hay, small enough sample and i can be whatever i wanna be!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50176 @ 0.00056899 = 28.5496 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3924 @ 0.00057008 = 2.237 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: the throwaway joke mats is that the top of the bell curve is entirely average, just like putting on pants in the morning
mats: i got the joke, yo.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: if pressing is intended to be curated by patch selection in the patches dir, seals in the sealsdir and keys in the wotdir, why does "press" need to take a head?
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19443 @ 0.00055889 = 10.8665 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: shinohai: something like that could murder the google apps system
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38453 @ 0.0005693 = 21.8913 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44050 @ 0.0005703 = 25.1217 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29454 @ 0.00055644 = 16.3894 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33895 @ 0.00055769 = 18.9029 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00055644 = 4.9801 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40125 @ 0.00055235 = 22.163 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> "and enough statistics to place myself at the top of the bell curve" <<< haha good one.
mircea_popescu: shinohai <<< am I only person that thinks this is a horrible idea? << i can't discern what the idea is supposed to be. glorified vps ? 9.95 a month sorta deal.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's pretty flattering, in honesty. look at all the things i have time to do in a day!
mircea_popescu: a bit like how well traveled washington was. fucker slept in all beds ever found in new england.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00057042 = 14.0894 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: is this return to copying of loglines instead of referencing the log an attempt to make life easier for the future archaeologists by not polluting the global threadspace?
mircea_popescu: nah, dpeends if i load from log. webpage or from the scrollback
ben_vulpes: thought it might've indicated some difference in threads for archival/archaeology and emphemera
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00055324 = 19.64 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00055735 = 13.1535 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00055735 = 2.0622 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3970 @ 0.000552 = 2.1914 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: do you also try to find where the pictures on tumblr come from?
danielpbarron: well they don't come with 'b-a' in the name with content about blockchains
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44300 @ 0.00055057 = 24.3903 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: "In Washington, the committee is known as the ATM, because banks and hedge funds shower the chairman with contributions."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24484 @ 0.00055179 = 13.51 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22929 @ 0.00055734 = 12.7792 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: today in imgurlols: "Unknown file type application/octet-stream"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00055979 = 16.9057 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13744 @ 0.0005598 = 7.6939 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.0005598 = 9.6006 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway, matching tops and curtains' gotta be some new sort of win.
phf: asciilifeform: nobody gives a shit re unpaid leave << maybe when begged for day at a time, but try taking a week of unpaid leave ~explicitly~ for vacation, and you're going to find yourself in "conversation" with hr pretty fast. putting that in contract is even trickier. it's a control issue, first and foremost
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39376 @ 0.0005598 = 22.0427 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00055999 = 11.0878 BTC [+] {2}
adlai is qntring up the impending diff increase, adding statistics about the "fee market"; any specific requests/suggestions?
adlai: mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo, et al ^
gribble: Current Blocks: 397149 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 minutes and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
adlai: hmm, this is a bit confusing of gribble: block #397151 still uses the same difficulty. it determines the next difficulty, but the first block using the new diff is 397152
ben_vulpes: adlai: just out of curiosity, do you have historical mempool data?
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:14:45; mike_c: mm, not quite. because order book could have been better than price history at times
adlai: (the relevant bits are the "mm, not quite")
adlai: ultimately, it doesn't matter in quite a similar manner to how past orderbook data doesn't matter
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24352 @ 0.00056325 = 13.7163 BTC [+]
adlai: but it's not raw data
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22386 @ 0.00056471 = 12.6416 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38502 @ 0.00056824 = 21.8784 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20792 @ 0.00056822 = 11.8144 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00056109 = 8.22 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00057042 = 13.0626 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51773 @ 0.00056966 = 29.493 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: "Beginning on October 3 and continuing through December 18, 2015, an unknown party accessed without authorization two cloud providers used by Gyft. This unknown party was able to view or download certain Gyft user information stored with these cloud providers and make a file containing some of that user information.
mircea_popescu: The information potentially accessed from the cloud providers included names, addresses, dates of birth, phone numbers, email addresses, and gift card numbers. Gift card numbers could have been used to make unauthorized purchases."
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 00:25:13; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: if pressing is intended to be curated by patch selection in the patches dir, seals in the sealsdir and keys in the wotdir, why does "press" need to take a head?
mircea_popescu: and in random tardstalk craft, "Stop posting that I am a scam or it is simple I can have my lawyer visit your site and send you a size and assist letter not to be slandering."
ben_vulpes: i don't see how this is anything other than busy work, if i'm to curate the patchdir for presses anyways.
ben_vulpes: perhaps though i would jump out of a plane with a mispacked parachute?
ben_vulpes: ascii_rear: i recall reading in the log that your vtron's implicit pressing behavior is asciibetical up to indicated head, but i'm having trouble reconciling that with other reqs i once read: that vs press longest chain, and also that vs press all usable patches. would that accurately modify to 'longest chain up to indicated head'?
ben_vulpes: (also ascii_rear i am having trouble understanding how vdiff turns $2 [which i'd expect to be the dir] into individual files for hashing and writing into the vpatch)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2064 @ 0.00057043 = 1.1774 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: yeah i basically have nfi how vdiff is making the per-file hashes happen
ben_vulpes: ^^ asciilifeform, mod6, phf, polarbeard, mircea_popescu: if any of you are willing to explain the inscrawkutable vdiff to my maleducated self i'd be much obliged
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00057043 = 4.8772 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00056612 = 12.0017 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how is it disambiguated from $2, which is the dir input to diff?
ben_vulpes: oh because that's in the context of the awk statement and the file path is the second entry in that context?
ben_vulpes: keep in mind that awk is acting on the text output of diff, it's not recursing anywhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41556 @ 0.00056219 = 23.3624 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform ^^ i believe that i understand how vdiff works, if you'd confirm, i'd appreciate.
ben_vulpes:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395703 << so here's what my (unreleased, v2) vtron does: it grabs all patches and all sigs, merges them into an alphabetically sorted list, and then munches through that list attaching sigs whose name matches the previous patch to that patch. is this a blindingly stupid thing to do? i realize that it depends implicitly on the naming convention, but would like to hear about other unrealized
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 21:04:13; ascii_butugychag: phf: O(N^2)
gribble: Time since last block: 1 minute and 16 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7694 @ 0.00056873 = 4.3758 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00056878 = 12.9113 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00056897 = 4.95 BTC [+] {2}
mats: TIL ppc macs had a Forth shell by way of 'OpenFirmware'
mats: OLPC does too, but i've mentioned that before.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31864 @ 0.00056699 = 18.0666 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25813 @ 0.00056247 = 14.519 BTC [-]
adlai is open to suggestions of fee market statistics to display, beyond the obvious "picture is worth >9K shares"
punkman: mats: there is a SyFy thing called The Expanse nao << possibly the only SyFy show I didn't stop watching mid-episode
punkman: the space-noir was good, the space-politics kinda weak
☟︎ ben_vulpes: although the scene with the two ancient earth babes was amusing in how solidly it failed the bechdel test
☟︎ mats: holy shit, 1exahash and at 20% increase
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0005629 = 2.4768 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: I'm gonna hack on my diff implementation today, any suggestions welcome
ben_vulpes: have you shared something from which suggestions might bloom?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00056461 = 9.8807 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: the obvious stuff: file deletes without needing to dump whole file in the diff. also thinking on how to handle simple renames.
punkman: perhaps a token-replace operation, but then we are venturing in ascii's "turing-complete-diff"
ben_vulpes: adlai: do you know how to rebind a var to a specific value at the beginning of every iteration through a loop in cl?
punkman: is it different than setting a regular variable?
adlai: ben_vulpes: (loop for a = 10 do (stuff :to a)) ?
adlai: correct, but the full picture is much more subtle
adlai: for x = init then next
adlai: leaving out next rebinds to init each time
ben_vulpes: where can i get my hands on complete documentation for the loop macro?
ben_vulpes: and 'loop for black belts' has a limited set of recipes.
adlai: this no-next-defaults-to-init behavior is potentially confusing because the do macro does not have this behavior
ben_vulpes has to step out, apologies for asking at an beforehand-unknowably-importune moment
adlai: section 6 is/willbe your friend when you return
BingoBoingo: adlai: BTW you did the off by thousand error thing
adlai: BingoBoingo: it's just a single letter, they're even adjacent on dvorak
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19784 @ 0.00056357 = 11.1497 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7316 @ 0.0005629 = 4.1182 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.0005629 = 15.9864 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: > sending a supremely strong message to all
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00056915 = 9.7325 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: adlai: a) i am annoyed that someone has coopted your 3 letters of tab completion and never says anything in here b) monthly averages and standard deviations of transaction fees as percentage of total miner subsidy would be far more informative
adlai: hmm, tab completion is worth defending
ben_vulpes: i'll take cab funpletion over dick blocks any day
ben_vulpes: also thank you for the link to chapter six.
adlai: np. and yes: SaslServ (SaslServ@services.): liead!~adlie@unaffiliated/adlai has just authenticated as you (Adlai)
ben_vulpes: thank you for the 6 pairs of 'ai' that you saved me from typing over the next month
adlai: "ai must come from within"
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 18:31:57; asciilifeform: 978 motherfucking keywords in ansi std.
ben_vulpes: man is anyone from X3J13 still alive at this point?
ben_vulpes: however i don't see myself doing that any time soon, and sicp is...somewhat higher on the list.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14570 @ 0.0005629 = 8.2015 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: usually all i'm curious about is 'why is *that* implementation dependent?!'
ben_vulpes: punkman: either 1/10 troll or you have better repl foo than my incompetent self and should share this wisdom
adlai: the handwritten notes bit ("5.2 Early Politics and Posturing") is excellent, all relevant to bitcoin too
ben_vulpes: oh man adlai i didn't even know i was looking for that
punkman: ben_vulpes: I don't lisp but thought lisp was cool enough to let you inspect everything in repl
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> who is this aquentin again? << troll dude
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20788 @ 0.00056256 = 11.6945 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26836 @ 0.00056243 = 15.0934 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: ben_vulpes: C-c C-d ~
adlai: second only to C-c C-d #
adlai: infuriatingly enough, `C-c C-d h` does not work for loop keywords such as the for-=-then clause
adlai is glad to see ben_vulpes using lisp enough to need these!
ben_vulpes: mwell i don't really 'get to' code except for tmsr any more
ben_vulpes: although i do drive-by javascript debugging pretty well
ben_vulpes: and can *almost* run down objective c weirdness on my own when qa'ing others' work
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00056136 = 5.5013 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056835 = 11.7648 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00057001 = 12.0842 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: mod6, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, phf, punkman: feedback greatly appreciated
ben_vulpes: remember when mircea_popescu liked to troll people into starting blogs?
ben_vulpes: hey one post slightly more frequently than every week for two years
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00057043 = 8.5565 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: ben_vulpes: s/descendents/descendants
BingoBoingo: ioerror dude is tor developer. Bothering likely goes straight to fort meade
punkman: ooh seems both are valid words actually
BingoBoingo: And danielpbarron seems to have already bothered
ben_vulpes: punkman: that would explain why i john kerry all over them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.00057145 = 21.8008 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00056999 = 18.9237 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00056999 = 1.8525 BTC [-]
punkman: "Subgraph Mail is a new desktop email client written from scratch, with its own implementation of OpenPGP built-in." that will surely end well "
punkman: "Subgraph believes that managed runtimes and memory-safe languages should be used where possible. For this reason, Subgraph Mail, the Metaproxy, and other components of the Subgraph OS are written in higher level languages that are memory-safe or run in managed runtimes, making them less susceptible to memory corruption style implementation vulnerabilities. "
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14962 @ 0.00057154 = 8.5514 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00056999 = 22.5146 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.00057156 = 15.7465 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16454 @ 0.00056999 = 9.3786 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4759 @ 0.00056999 = 2.7126 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19637 @ 0.00056719 = 11.1379 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19148 @ 0.00056649 = 10.8472 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00056982 = 36.6964 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00056983 = 7.9776 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56200 @ 0.00056983 = 32.0244 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37121 @ 0.00057081 = 21.189 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7579 @ 0.00057168 = 4.3328 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo check it out, reads exactly like contemporary anglo literature.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 08:09:56; punkman: the space-noir was good, the space-politics kinda weak
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 08:11:39; ben_vulpes: although the scene with the two ancient earth babes was amusing in how solidly it failed the bechdel test
mircea_popescu: "The Bechdel test (/ˈbɛkdəl/ BEK-dəl) asks whether a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00056657 = 13.4277 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: this is not a bad idea, is it! imagine if all conversation between dudes was either absent (such as is traditionally in westerns and other tough-man stuff in the style) or otherwise entirely about "booze bitches blunts" as in the usual dudefare.
mircea_popescu: you'd think it's all made in hollywood, going on the tiresome superficiality.
mircea_popescu: "It is decision time guys and right now the number of nodes is what is most important, perhaps, even decisive." << o hey, it trickled down ?
mircea_popescu: "I worry that support for classic has become rather wishy-washy (like with everything else in bitcoin currently). Miners need to get serious right now, no more messing around." hurr durr.
copypaste: people who have no say in anything thinking they matter
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 09:20:24; ben_vulpes: was adlie one of yours?
mircea_popescu: did you know sciencehatesyou actually abbreviates to "shy" ? neither did i! but apparently it's what it stands for!
mircea_popescu: "In TFC, Alice enters her message into Tx.py running on her Transmitter Module (TxM), a TCB separated from network. Tx.py encrypts the message and signs the ciphertext. TxM then relays the packet to Network Handler (NH) through RS-232 interface and a data diode."
mircea_popescu: now who's Markus Ottela aka mapq and why isn't he in here.
mircea_popescu: guy sounds like a competent lawyer. (and yes, contrary to the view commonly held by people who have no idea, there exists such a thing as competent lawyers, it's an intellectual field like any other and just as capable to contain "lovely gems and brilliant coups" as the field of mel is.)
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:15:33; ben_vulpes: happy second birthday, cascadianhacker
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:16:52; BingoBoingo: Doesn't he still? People just listen less now.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00056564 = 12.84 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu braces himself for a bunch of people doing riding shots of themselves next.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 11:40:49; punkman: so we used... Java
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.00056564 = 4.7231 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00057118 = 18.4777 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11073 @ 0.000567 = 6.2784 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40389 @ 0.00056363 = 22.7645 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26032 @ 0.00056202 = 14.6305 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00056896 = 10.9809 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31650 @ 0.00056148 = 17.7708 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.0005725 = 3.2346 BTC [+] {2}
polarbeard: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, mod6: a backport for sendrawtransaction rpc command,
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056691 = 9.4107 BTC [-] {2}
phf: polarbeard: hey, do you mind linking to your pgp key
phf: never mind, found it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47500 @ 0.00057257 = 27.1971 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20683 @ 0.00057258 = 11.8427 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 06:29:24; ben_vulpes: also of note vdiff does not work under macos
phf: those open files around until eventually running out of handlers ("too many files open" message)
phf: as far as what it does i hope formatting in the paste above makes it more readable. for each line that starts with --- or +++ awk extract the filename and runs shasum on the file, then prints the new diff line with shasum included. for other files it just outputs whatever's there. so it's a filter that transforms mentions of diff'ed files into diffed files + checksum
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00057821 = 8.5575 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "Mirror of antecedents, returns patches that depend on it's argument." << its.
mircea_popescu: "Stan delivers a beautifully terse toposort implementation here. He leverages language features in both data structure and control flow, and the resulting code is terse and readable." << too much terse!
mircea_popescu: funny application of the entire symbols vs words debate, incidentally. was it deliberate ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "Stan's program makes excellent and judicious use of global state, but I am nowhere near disciplined enough to do the same to good effect" << a simple trick [expert programmers hate] to achieve this is you know you can map state on paper for a while until it's learned.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00057804 = 3.1503 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "I'll leave the bombast and politics to those typically responsible for such." << ha!
phf: ben_vulpes: man is anyone from X3J13 still alive at this point? << probably better question, who has died, because the majority of the people form the committee are still alive.
http://quimby.gnus.org/circus/cl/dpANS3/chap-0-edit-history.tex has an almost complete list of 104 ("These are attendees from minutes back through 3/88"), of those i recognize about 40, of those ~~10 i've been in touch with in the past year and another ~~10 are
phf: still doing things with public output (e.g. guy steele, richard gabriel, ...)
hdbuck: hum so any chance you’d let me know if I would still be leaking IP now?
mircea_popescu: hdbuck nope, * hdbuck (~hdbuck@unaffiliated/hdbuck) has joined #bitcoin-assets logged correctly.
phf: ben_vulpes: oh i remember dan weinreb died couple of years ago, of cancer actually.
ascii_rear: ben_vulpes: good 'v' summary - but i'm still waiting for somebody to crap out a treatise re: the philosophical 'why' of it
☟︎ ascii_rear: most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this
ascii_rear: and yes, eternal comp.lang.lisp holy war re: it constituting a heathen small language within cl
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00057183 = 34.0525 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 15:33:02; polarbeard: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, mod6: a backport for sendrawtransaction rpc command,
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear> most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this << the problem here is that the only reason why is not obvious is because of issues in the reader's head, and a general treatise to address all possible personal issues can not really be made.
mircea_popescu: we're stuck discussing it with them one at a time. like education.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 14:12:45; mircea_popescu: or at least, no obvious "gtfo flags" i immediately notice.
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear the backport works right now, for trinque's use for instance. shivatronic, tomorrow.
punkman: relevant quote in something I was just reading: "History is not the study of origins; rather it is the analysis of all the mediations by which the past was turned into our present."
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear in general, but mind the peculiar way he is using it. merely there to hide metadata from the people who don't have it anyway
punkman: ascii_rear: can easily be adapted to anything that takes serial protocol
punkman: also uses dbus to talk to pidgin
mircea_popescu: no but he has a point : if you're going to throw up might as well because "pidgin"
punkman: the otp implementation is possibly decent though
ascii_rear: and what part is new? diode is ancient
ascii_rear: phf : open your cltl2, it sure as hell is there
phf: can't, all the books are in storage, so i have to talk out of my ass
ascii_rear: what, phf is the only user without warez copy?
punkman: mircea_popescu: what's space-noir mean here << film-noir-in-space
punkman: the film-noir aspects of the series?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108312 @ 0.00057871 = 62.6812 BTC [+] {5}
punkman: well I couldn't really give you a good definition of "film-noir", but there's a cynical private-dick type guy, searching for a girl that disappeared mysteriously
punkman: dark city was fun, I think I actually saw it in a cinema
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6363 @ 0.00056826 = 3.6158 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22337 @ 0.00056691 = 12.6631 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10692 @ 0.00057239 = 6.12 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00056204 = 18.4911 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00057239 = 6.0387 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18598 @ 0.00057538 = 10.7009 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00057831 = 13.4168 BTC [+]
mats: i wonder what it cost to spin up the 20% diff increase
mircea_popescu: by no means the end of the world. won't even buy you a walk's worth of county road.
polarbeard: asciilifeform: will play with shivatronics soon, probably after exploring gcov dumping
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6468 @ 0.00056901 = 3.6804 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00056902 = 17.2698 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: punkman Pieter Hintjens is imo gunk, the epitome of the plowing fly.
mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the best keyboard design to do away wi
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: th the Caps Lock key. It was funded by donations from the campaign's supporters and eventually raised €194.91." << this is a good summary of the man's contributions. they evaluate to < 200 euro + a wikipedia paragraph.
mircea_popescu: tomes could be written on the particulars of an overcompensating inferiority complex that seeks to remedy internal tension through far reaching "reforms" of the outer world. i'm too lazy. tomes could similarly be written about tardspedia, but i've done all of that i could be bothered to. so let's forget they both ever existed and move on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18023 @ 0.00056743 = 10.2268 BTC [-]
punkman: he drove all the important folks away from 0mq too
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 18:49:44; mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the best keyboard d
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4286 @ 0.00056743 = 2.432 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00055999 = 18.3397 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45400 @ 0.00056724 = 25.7527 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36350 @ 0.00056906 = 20.6853 BTC [+] {3}
maqp: Hey. Came to say hi after someone requested
mircea_popescu: you're the guy with the open source otp / airgapped thing are you ?
mircea_popescu: you ever gave any thought to making some sort of marketable item out of that ?
maqp: thanks. I wanted to recommend you guys take a look at the TFC-NaCl that's fresh out of oven and has better design compared to OTP/CEV versions
mircea_popescu: also, it's a good idea to register your pgp key with assbot. that way you create an identity in the wot we can attach to.
maqp: I haven't had the time to update the two other versions
maqp: Well, since this is a public chat room with no secrecy/authenticity, I don't really see the need at the moment
maqp: So are you running something that signs all your IRC messages or what are we talking about?
mircea_popescu: nah, but you can order specific things be entered into the record by signing them
mircea_popescu: one case is ratings, which is how that wot is made. i go !rate x y
mircea_popescu: the other case is signed documents, there's a bot that keeps a notary service.
maqp: I see. The problem with GPG however is the lack of deniability. I'd rather keep things off the record <:
maqp: yeah, sure. I haven't had the need for it. At least yet.
phf: ascii_rear:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-02-2016#1399083 << i've remapped it to cntrl for decade+, like other sane folk << you know that's a filthy unixism and is going to overwork your already qwerty abused left hand even further? lispm puts control on both sides of spacebar, followed by alt/meta, follwed by other stuff..
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 18:49:44; mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the best keyboard d
mircea_popescu: phf why the hell woulc you switch ctrl and alt around o.O
maqp: Maybe. Provided that there are no obligations to where my project should be heading towards. I could use a cup of coffee, but it'll take some time to learn how to secure the account and endpoint
phf: mircea_popescu: emacs
maqp: i.e. I'll have to look into secure deployment when generating one.
mircea_popescu: maqp i suppose you could look into TRB. get yourself V and make your own secure node.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a 1 BTC with your name on it here. if you post an address in this session you got it. if you disconnect before you registered a sig with assbot, you won't be able to get it cuz i won't know it's you.
phf: it sort of relies on the idea that control is easier to chord with. all the control combos are basic text manipulation stuff, so when i'm emacsing i chord with the thumb opposite of key, i.e. c-a is left pinky a, right thumb control
mircea_popescu: i keep the pinky on ctrl. which is why making it further in would be inconvenient for me.
phf: actually i think original tom knight keyboard puts control and meta under pinky by spacing things out
mircea_popescu: maqp basically you go !register 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD
mircea_popescu: phf aha something like that. i suppose that's really it, move alt to shift or caps or something. tho really caps lock is kinda too high, crosses the fingers.
maqp: mircea_popescu: What's the prefix in front of pub key fingerprint?
maqp: interesting. There doesn't seem to be a setting for that when uploading key to MIT key server
ben_vulpes: echo "keyid format 0xlong" >> ~/.gnupg.conf
ben_vulpes: > now who's Markus Ottela << lol hey buddhi
maqp: !register 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD
assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key 1C2B20CD / "Markus Ottela <oottela@cs.helsinki.fi>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00056907 = 1.821 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.maqp.1:b036a6fcaa5939edc3d055c0d2d45c2e6e0e3c8d50eb416c651e482d87c90d7a
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for maqp with note: diodes
mircea_popescu: maqp now you can self-voice ; just say !up to assbot in a pm and it'll give you a string to decrypt. pass it with !v and you're voiced.
ben_vulpes: maqp: where does the handle come from?
mircea_popescu: hey, an interest in actual crypto / security ? DEFINITELY terrorism.
mircea_popescu: well no, not really april yet. there should prolly be some discussion for a new one huh.
ben_vulpes: you proposed changes, but i'm not seeing those changes cemented anywhere.
maqp: Handle is mixed play with markus, nickname maku, how q is pronounced ku and p and q in crypto
ben_vulpes: right, and given the extremely long lead time for review around here i want to kick the conversation off now
ben_vulpes: i dunno i'm not diffing your html with my face
ben_vulpes: nigga you think i keep shit in my head that computers remember for me?
maqp: As far as it goes with cast iron list, it remains to be seen who's now closer to "terrorists"
gribble: mthreat was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <mthreat> any problems, lemme know
gribble: dignork was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <dignork> PeterL: I'm lurking
gribble: artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 19 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
maqp: So anyway, as far as the TFC goes, NaCl is the first one to provide practical public key crypto
gribble: diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 42 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <diametric> not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point.
maqp: I tried it earlier, but the classic Diffie-Hellman had much less security and a lot longer public key
maqp: The current version has 72 hex char key you have to manually type to transmitter device; it's similar to manually typing Ricochet/Tox ID
maqp: Since it's ECDHE, the security is actually 3072-bit RSA equivalent
ben_vulpes: i propose excising artifexd from the lordship, and i further propose adding phf to it
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no objection ; and in light of the traverser no objection.
maqp: unfortunaltely that's the only way to prevent nation state from remotely injecting malware to transmitter device after setup
ben_vulpes: traverser and *myriad* other contributions.
maqp: That could work of course, base58 might be better as there's less similar looking chars
ben_vulpes: also does lordship survive termination of corporeal instantiation?
mircea_popescu: chetty should also come off, seeing how she's no more.
punkman: maqp, is that a carter-wegman MAC in your otp version?
maqp: punkman: It's a classical one-time MAC with excess key expenditure. Not a good idea I admit
ben_vulpes: i also don't quite know what mthreat's doing in there beyond running search and being a known usg antagonist.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well, the search is running ok. this is a thing.
mircea_popescu: my thinking, vague as i admit it may be, is that if the guy's service is running, the guy is ok.
ben_vulpes: i don't intend this as an attack on mthreat, trying only to tease out the logic.
mircea_popescu: otherwise what, wipe mike_c because he had a kid ? nonsense i say!
ben_vulpes: yes but /inclusion in the lordship/ for that?
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.maqp.1:cf9f8d6640cd6e94e71f6be044d2a4c9147ca162e812e5c5b414694eccbb44a1
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for maqp with note: I showed him the log, and he joined! I'm on a roll.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: dude he has like three
maqp: mircea_popescu: indeed. I just figured the few extra chars were't that important, and that typing upper/lower case might make it slower. I'll have to look into that
maqp: I wonder if there's a library for that
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes generally i'm thinking, to make it in people gotta put you in ; but once you're in, yoiu're in, and baring disaster you stay in.
maqp: But since users are verifying the public key over Signal call
maqp: having to say "upper case B, lower case c".. is almost as bad as the one used in Telegram
maqp: "lightish square, a bit darker square, white square"...
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: if you don't show up in the forum, marshall hoplits on demand, are you still a senator?
mircea_popescu: as long as you do what's expected of you - no case can be brought.
maqp: But since you don't have to read the public key in Base58 format, it could use two different encodings
maqp: Base36 would reduce public key length to 56 chars
maqp: (checksum included)
maqp: indeed. I'll look into that <:
mircea_popescu: as the saying goes, #b-a presence counts for 30 iq points.
maqp: NaCl also lets you pre-share 256-bit XSalsa20-Poly1305 keys. It was the only practical post-quantum solution at the moment
punkman: I think pronounceable words beat baseX
maqp: It's also a lot easier with NaCl than with OTP/CEV (there's a separate command for adding PSKs)
maqp: CEV is the cascading encryption version
maqp: basically it's like OTP but with forward secret cascading encryption
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 16:42:15; mircea_popescu: funny application of the entire symbols vs words debate, incidentally. was it deliberate ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.00056335 = 21.2946 BTC [-] {3}
maqp: Keccak512-CTR - XSalsa20 - Twofish-CTR - AES256-GCM - HMAC-SHA512 - SHA3-512-MAC
maqp: "because why trust on a single cryptographic primitive" makes a lot more sense than "why use information theoretically secure ciphers"
punkman: you can !up yourself now maqp
ben_vulpes: phf: thank you for the rewriting and clarification on why vdiff doesn't on macos.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 16:56:01; ascii_rear: ben_vulpes: good 'v' summary - but i'm still waiting for somebody to crap out a treatise re: the philosophical 'why' of it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36722 @ 0.00056906 = 20.897 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: "why use information theoretically secure ciphers" << not really plural there, there is only otp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8428 @ 0.00056968 = 4.8013 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: anyways, i now return you to your regularly scheduled programming
ben_vulpes: the superb owl impends, and the girls need a hand hefting cakes and buckets of wangs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00056968 = 5.0132 BTC [+]
punkman: "because why trust on a single cryptographic primitive" << because it's nice if the whole thing fits-in-head, and even if you cascade there is still the possibility of meet-me-in-the-middle attacks or I dunno what else
maqp: punkman: splitting hairs but yeah. Algorithms woul've come closer
punkman: maqp: what other algorithms are you thinking of that fit the title?
maqp: unconditionally secure authentication fits information theoretically secure algorithms (not ciphers)
maqp: but yeah, my bad <:
fluffypony: "It's not clear why WhatsApp settled on the oddly specific number, but it'll be good news for those users for whom 100 just wasn't big enough."
maqp: mircea_popescu: Didn't see that. CEV was built to distribute trust over multiple cryptographic primitives and designers
maqp: Snowden hinted something about using cascading at Harvard Privacy Synopsium when he was talking with Schneier. Schneier disagreed but it left me wondering whether Snowden's tongue slipped. Cascading was agreed as a good practice in the Schneier's Friday squid blog so I had a go
maqp: Additive keystreams have very low risk after all and I didn't have to trust single external crypto library
maqp: That's pretty much the story behind CEV
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00056088 = 3.7859 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: what the fuck is this "tongue slipped"
ben_vulpes: faux patriotism routine makes me fucking retch
shinohai: One cannot save what is already hopelessly crumbling.
maqp: AFAIK Snowden hasn't got a degree in math/crypto, but what he said might indicate something in the leaks the journalists chose not to publish. It's a long shot but since there was no harm in cascading...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33700 @ 0.00056952 = 19.1928 BTC [+] {5}
gribble: rdymac was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 26 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, and 24 seconds ago: <rdymac> Any Rails dev here?
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.rdymac:7d086a2d0691adca56545a6ba7495e533c0b19805f9eab706a138362b2424cd1
assbot: Successfully unrated rdymac
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00057165 = 9.8324 BTC [+]
maqp: ben_vulpes: I think you're confusing patriotism with nationalism
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.thestringpuller.1:fac5f227134ae0795380be7386c83629c975a9201a61ee30e1c88e35be8490b1
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for thestringpuller from 1 to 1 with note: wrote the hard fork missile crisis qntra article
gribble: thomas_d was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 10 weeks, 2 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <thomas_d> xanthyos ?
assbot: You rated user thomas_d on 24-Nov-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: plays on seals as thomas_dick.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.thomas_d:9efb94b8241695ed4e1ac3950d1e04460f8c53d60ca67c29fd41cb7621ecc241
assbot: Successfully unrated thomas_d
gribble: napedia was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 51 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <napedia> I don't write for SNI. My opinion is that I'd like to see SNI sort it out with economic reasoning and good articles. Pierre's arguments are most persusasive.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.napedia:236b863d49c33ccac6b3b7a47ecb08b435f106b4d2d9f1dbf751cb9579a851a5
assbot: Successfully unrated napedia
shinohai: danielpbarron is thinning out the herd O.o
danielpbarron: heh, my list was getting a little too long to fit in my head so to speak
guruvan: seems like people round here need bigger heads
danielpbarron: a year is long enough. picking out the ones with old dates mostly
gribble: dionyziz was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 17 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 17 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <dionyziz> Bye for now.
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.dionyziz:4934dc5af58b6fd8461a8a34e055cb688a1943e719d247506c3acfded7a455bc
assbot: Successfully unrated dionyziz
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14483 @ 0.00057349 = 8.3059 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14128 @ 0.00057382 = 8.1069 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: guruvan> seems like people round here need bigger heads <<< i thought "the consensus" was b-a heads already too big
gribble: naphex was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Naphex> .
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yo what happened with xotika?
ben_vulpes: heh anyways i just cracked xotika, picked a random feed and whaddaya know the last frame of the bloomberg video that autoplayed itself is superimposed on this poor girl's face
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: hurt Naphex' feelings with the camho piece?
mircea_popescu: uh i dun see it. guy was gonna do some things, then got sick, then came back, then never did the things. i dunno, lost interest or w/e.
mircea_popescu: i'm not exactly in the business of pushing people to do things.
shinohai: Programs in Java but I won't hold it against him.
maqp: mircea_popescu: I looked at the backlog someone linked me and I wanted to address one thing about TFC using it
maqp: since you and ascii_rear disapproved
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2016 17:03:55; punkman: also uses dbus to talk to pidgin
maqp: I completely agree with ioerror on that "pidgin is a flock of zero-days flying in formation"
maqp: However, the entire computer Pidgin is running on is not part of the trusted computing base.
maqp: plaintext input, output, encryption, decryption, key generation and storage happens on separate computers
mircea_popescu: that was my point : that if he was going to barf over tor, which doesn't actually matter or significantly touch the scheme, might as well pick any other random unrelated item
maqp: So Pidgin is just a way to transmit ciphertexts from dbus to XMPP server
maqp: I'll have to read the article. Tor sucks slides indicate it puts up a fight even against FVEY agencies
maqp: Sure it has it has it's problems. But the only alternative is secure-by-policy VPN
maqp: I'd prefer secure by design approach any time
maqp: But if you find Tor insecure and suspect someone is remotely breaching for example your Tails live session
maqp: Then TFC can really help since Tails and Pidgin only see TFC ciphertexts
mircea_popescu: you should prolly also look into the vaporware that still is gossipd.
maqp: So breaking the anonymity won't reveal content of chat that could compromise their identity
mircea_popescu: it's this secure communication thing dreamed up by b-a.
mircea_popescu: we've not really got around to doing much practically with it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36541 @ 0.00056961 = 20.8141 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 21-09-2015 11:51:55; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla missing 188.68.240.159
maqp: "URC can be as private and secure as military systems"
mircea_popescu: maqp no, it's a not-yet implemented, not-yet fully designed irc/pigdin/mail/etc replacement
kakobrekla: on that matter, how are you going to search for 'v'?
maqp: Is there a memo on that design?
maqp: (IMO you should be spending your efforts on Ricochet or fork it.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00056807 = 11.5602 BTC [-] {2}
hanbot: kakobrekla vspace isn't too horrid, aside from the voice stuff...which i guess makes it an unfortunate choice. at least it's not a heh.
maqp: I see nothing being discussed about forward secrecy or deniability
phf: maqp: that was the original proposal, that outlines some principles, but there's been a lot of discussion in the logs about it
maqp: So it's a secure chat with track record?
maqp: Have you discussed the threat model?
maqp: The article steers away from infosec discourse faster than CRC32 collision. I skipped to the end--
mircea_popescu: well it would, because we don't even agree on what "infosec" is.
maqp: There's nothing bad being a Moose. It can be hard to be a moose when your family is being tortured in another room when you chose not to use anonymity to hide participation in dissidence movement
maqp: I think we need both
mircea_popescu: people with families do not belong in "dissidence movements", providing such exist.
maqp: it depends on how well they can weigh the threat and what track record the tools of their OPSEC have
mircea_popescu: no, they philosophically have no business there. once you've decided to settle down and reproduce, you've by that token accepted the world as is, declared your own submission to it and all that.
maqp: It doesn't have to be a family, it might be a parent, friend, someone we look up to
mircea_popescu: what's this game of everythingsies, i wanna be tanned but also untanned and sit in the sun and the moon at the same time bla bla.
mircea_popescu: if you are the sort of person who cares, you are the sort of person who cares.
mircea_popescu: no amount of "infosec" is going to change the fact that for any discussion on these lines, you go with the sucker herd.
assbot: Logged on 23-01-2016 03:40:38; mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15097 @ 0.00056651 = 8.5526 BTC [-] {2}
maqp: Well, we must depend on those who are able to do something then given their current social and societal situation
maqp: But I fail to see the rat in the sewer, when you're giving the government a finger by bouncing traffic across the globe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16845 @ 0.00056083 = 9.4472 BTC [-] {2}
maqp: So the urban vs rural talks about anonymity being a "rat in a sewer"
mircea_popescu: anyway, the model gossipd is supposed to use is, you pass along traffic to your peers, if you're satisfied that it comes from either youself or a peer. it's a sort of messaging-over-wot. exactly like v works.
mircea_popescu: v does work yes, it's how bitcoin is installed currently.
assbot: V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system ... (
http://bit.ly/1nWQIFF )
maqp: Can you give a tldr on how ciphertexts propagate in the network?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46400 @ 0.00056019 = 25.9928 BTC [-] {5}
phf: maqp: in case of gossip there's no propagation. it's a p2p where each node, explicitly your peer, makes claims about what was said or heard elsewhere. не веришь, прими за сказку
mircea_popescu: i wish to say "Hi" to you. my peers are X, Y and Z. i encrypt "please say Hi for me to maqp" with X, Y, Z pubkeys.
mircea_popescu: X, Y and Z see this, and if they like me enough, and if they have your pubkey, pass along the Hi to you.
mircea_popescu: basically the whole system is an implementation of "have you heard what X said", but with computers.
maqp: So are you signing the plaintext before you send it to the peer?
mircea_popescu: the information you receive is only as good as the trustworthyness of your peers.
maqp: So a friend who holds a grudge on you can change a message?
mircea_popescu: the power of the system is exactly this : that an attacker doesn't know NOR CAN KNOW if he';s being sybilled to death or not.
maqp: so a secure communication system with no anonymity between peers, no secrecy, no integrity and no authenticity unless all peers are trustworthy
☟︎ mircea_popescu: complete anonimity between peers more than one node removed ; complete secrecy outside of the node group ; no integrity or authenticity outside of the wot trust.
☟︎☟︎ maqp: Why couldn't this work on OTR. I have a OTR messaging with my friend and I ask them to relay a message for me to someone peer has on their contacts?