asciilifeform: !s foo
gribble: Error: "s" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: still nope, huh.
asciilifeform: this planetoid has no atmosphere!11111
phf: asciilifeform: soon.
deedbot-: [Trilema] The Savages - http://trilema.com/2016/the-savages/
mircea_popescu: omaigerd grep teh local log
mircea_popescu: didn't you say you wanted it to work like grep ?
asciilifeform: this is what i normally do anyway
asciilifeform: but can't ~link~ to this.
mircea_popescu: ah yea.
asciilifeform: for non-readers of old earthling #b-a , nyooz: cazalla +rated a buncha folks, said his goodbyes (he's become... a mineral prospector?)
mircea_popescu: nowai ?
phf: a very sensible decision
asciilifeform: >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2016#1442174 <<
mircea_popescu: well, maybe he finds something.
phf: what's our preferred gcc version? i'm having a brain malfunction
phf: hmmm rotor script actually uses 4.9, for some reason i though it was frozen around 4.2-4.3 but maybe i'm confusing it with eulora
mats: when he said he 'kitted out [his] detecting gear', i thought he bought a mounted MD/GPR thing for his vehicle
mats: imagine my disappointment when the thing turns out to be handheld
mircea_popescu: speaking of detecting gear, one of the best geek gotcha april fools thing would be to gift scam geiger counters to friends
mircea_popescu: diddled so after an hour of fuctioning or so they go into detecting overdrive.
punkman: even better, you gift them in christmans/newyears, have them be normal for 3 months
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The old civil defense detectors tend behave pretty erratically
BingoBoingo: mats: I similarly share your detector disappointment
phf: via b-a http://imgur.com/zbwyWip
punkman: ah good find phf
mats: mosul is not going well
mats: iraqi army flees first mosul operation
mats: history repeats itself -- iraqis are evidently clever enough to know they can't win
trinque: http://dpaste.com/0RFY3HF.txt << getting there with deedbot
mats: shit their pants and didn't even get inside city limits yet
trinque: I need to clean some things up, probably swap sqlite for postgresql, then it's ready.
mats: ;;ticker --market btcchina
gribble: BTCChina BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 412.597248, Best ask: 412.61568, Bid-ask spread: 0.01843, Last trade: 412.61568, 24 hour volume: 41688.53600000, 24 hour low: 406.1184, 24 hour high: 428.395008, 24 hour vwap: 416.896228521
shinohai: 01:32 +trinque http://dpaste.com/0RFY3HF.txt << getting there with deedbot <<< Awesum :)
thestringpuller: looks like the Uphold people /wind 2
thestringpuller: looks like the Uphold people are speculating user funds.
jurov: thestringpuller: so? every bank does, unless forbidden to
thestringpuller: seems dangerous to speculate BTC deposits
jurov: and subprime mortgages too. and...
mircea_popescu: punkman yeah lol!
mircea_popescu: mats i thought they won tikrit ?!
mircea_popescu: omfg trinque like... TESTS shit ? this is an outrage.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller "Join the world's fastest growing platform for moving, converting​, transacting ​and holding any form of money or commodity.​ Instantly, securely and for free.​" << if someone actually takes that sort of thing seriously...
mircea_popescu: neway, plox to qntra if you have juicy.
mats: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/03/29/iraq-armys-mosul-offensive-stalls-face-fierce-fighting-desertions/82372634
mircea_popescu: aww
mircea_popescu: "fierce fighting" being, you know, people who stood a post for half an hour amirite
mats: they did retake tikrit, but that's not rly a win... just less of a loss
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: deedbot-> [Trilema] The Savages - http://trilema.com/2016/the-savages/ <<< incidentally, i'm really curious what peeps think iof this move.
mircea_popescu: movie*
shinohai: Anyone here having any luck on chan logs? I can log fine, but making them search-able has been futile for me thus far.
mircea_popescu: whyssat ?
mircea_popescu: jesus the headlines on usatoday, "17 yo michigan girl gets 10-20 years for plot to kill family"; "dad who murdered his kids to be executed wed" etc.
mircea_popescu: "vanilla shortage - icecream prices to increase" ; "fast food workers share things you should avoid"
mircea_popescu: it's fucking moscow over there wtf.
mircea_popescu: "woman tried to arrange daddy-daughter tryst"
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/Anehg
mircea_popescu: ("A Michigan woman was arrested after she expressed a willingness to have sex with a pair she thought was a father and underage daughter, police said.", obviously. gotta keep teh gestapo fed. publish or perish!)
mircea_popescu: wait, that's a crime ?
mircea_popescu: "The couple was identified by authorities after they contacted undercover federal agents online about assistance traveling to Syria." ; "pleaded guilty on Tuesday to a federal terrorism charge"
mircea_popescu: lol these derps.
mircea_popescu: by now the entire usg government is approximately a webforum.
mircea_popescu: "identified more than 70,000 untested sexual assault kits in the custody of more than 1,000 law enforcement agencies in communities large and small, pointing to a national accumulation of untested kits that likely reaches well into the hundreds of thousands across the nation’s 18,000 law enforcement agencies." << and check it out, the us has more "law enforcement agencies" than there are people who give a shit whether it li
mircea_popescu: ves or dies!
deedbot-: [Trilema] How to best cultivate jealousy. - http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-best-cultivate-jealousy/
mircea_popescu: “I would never trust the legal system, frankly, to protect my family again,” Jeff Sikorski said.
danielpbarron: PeterL, http://s.b-a.link/?q=deedbot+feeds+add
danielpbarron: oh hah, now i did the wrong channel thing
shinohai: https://www.reddit.com/r/PiperWallet/comments/3vmig0/piper_paper_wallet_with_bip38_is_saying_wrong/
shinohai: tl;dr USer puts 43 BTC on a paper wallet he doesn't understand.
mircea_popescu: mno. redditard claims he owns 43 btc and other things.
shinohai: Thats an old post, wonder why it is just being posted to sfyl
mircea_popescu: well, it regexp matches, neh ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ' ... and check it out, the us has more "law enforcement agencies" than there are people who give a shit ' << 15 ~federal~ police agencies with powers of arrest alone! iirc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-best-cultivate-jealousy/#comment-116889
asciilifeform: Mar 30 10:07:22 <shinohai>tl;dr USer puts 43 BTC on a paper wallet he doesn't understand. << wtf is a 'piper wallet' ?
shinohai: asciilifeform: unnecessarily complicated BTC: http://cryptographi.com/pages/what-is-piper
danielpbarron: i actually have one of those things
shinohai: Are they any good danielpbarron ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... "pleaded guilty on Tuesday to a federal terrorism charge" << recall, a few kidz were convicted after ~publicly speaking in favour of~ isis et al.
danielpbarron: used to to make a bunch of 0.001 notes to hand out
danielpbarron: it's alright as a novelty
asciilifeform: l0l the thing with shitberry pi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oya.
PeterL: /join #freenode
PeterL: bah
mircea_popescu: onoes! allahu!
mircea_popescu: in other "uphold" news, http://www.projectwonderful.com/img/uploads/pics/99067-1457483436.jpg
asciilifeform: Mar 30 10:02:53 <mircea_popescu> “I would never trust the legal system, frankly, to protect my family again,” Jeff Sikorski said. << l0l!! it is worth comparing usaschwitz inmate to, e.g., pashtun, or even eskimo. even lowliest savage has ~some~ means with which to bite back, avenge an affront.
asciilifeform: but not in usaschwitz, where chickens and people alike have their beaks sawn off, so as not to damage the valuable meat.
mircea_popescu: the means, they have.
mircea_popescu: they're just scummy fucks is all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: elaborate?
asciilifeform: my understanding is that mircea_popescu sees the difference as a 'balls', 'blood & iron' matter of personal courage. whereas it is slightly gnarlier, pashtun has his family->clan->tribe healthy human thing going, eskimo likewise, usian - has the 'star topology' with the Great Inca at the center and ~nothing else~ but own sorry carcass.
asciilifeform: solzhenitsyn's thing with 'if every man hit the arresting kgb agent with an axe' is not wholly mistaken, but consider, individual bee sting does not kill a bear. ~hive~ stings.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wouldja watch the savages movie ? then ima ellaborate on that basis.
asciilifeform puts on list.
mircea_popescu: and ftr - watched ~20 minutes of hanna, and hated it.
asciilifeform: not mega-surprise.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: care to comment why barfed ?
mircea_popescu: it's a remake of the 5th element, except the new mila jovovich (that eskimo looking chick that played suzi q, the rape victim) is not up to the dumb blonde par ; and without bruce willis the whole thing decays into incredible ineptitude.
mircea_popescu: seriously, "saying it in italian" is how you make super-secret-agents ?
mircea_popescu: fucking parochial ustardism, what's next, galleons are built through correctly making the sign of the corss, and starships through correctly reciting the sensitivity credo ?
asciilifeform: it is sop, a cargo-cultist's film about aeronautics
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, at least the other one was vaguely funny and vaguely sexy.
asciilifeform: the unfortunate bit is that folks who actually build & fly planes, typically do not make film
mircea_popescu: much like aeron flux, this film sins because a) the chick should have been naked about 50% of the film more, ie 50% instead of 0% ;
mircea_popescu: and unlike there, they actually needed a waif someone could conceivably want to fuck, here.
mircea_popescu: a lot less humourless tedium and unselfaware, unintentional self-irony critting would have also helped.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck designs bases with open storm sewer into the desert ? what if it's a fucking rain, your base gets wet ?
mircea_popescu: what if the chicken plant 20 miles down has an accident and sends a 7 foot tall chickenshitsludge tsunami ? does your base smell of chicken shit for the next three decades ?
asciilifeform: next nyooz, at 11: ninjas did not wear black...
mircea_popescu: no, they DID.
asciilifeform: nor do drawn swords go 'schwink'
mircea_popescu: there's a very good reason the character wears black. there is no fucking convention re the open storm sewer in the desert.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they wore whatever blended in with the scenery (e.g., enemy uniform)
mircea_popescu: sweet innocent girl sitting next to me watching the apcs storm past the sewer was like "don't they know where the sewer is ?"
mircea_popescu: coursenot!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but they wore black on stage because invisible. there's good reason for this!
asciilifeform: kabuki convention
asciilifeform: the 'escape through sewers' thing is similar.
mircea_popescu: right. there's nothing wrong with artistic license ; or with artistic convention.
mircea_popescu: there is something wrong with ustardianism.
mircea_popescu: how is it similar!
asciilifeform: 'this here is an escape ...standard kabuki...'
mircea_popescu: if you'\re going to use the typically new york sewer escape scense
asciilifeform: 'this fella is not seen ...standard kabuki with black...'
mircea_popescu: PUT IT IN NEW YORK
asciilifeform: ah yeah.
mircea_popescu: well ?
mircea_popescu: incontinent break of convention is the sign of ignorance.
phf: asciilifeform: those dead bushido masters made drawn swords go "schwink" on video, but i assume that's an intentional skill
mircea_popescu: super-mega-ultra-splendiferous fucking advanced computabase consists mostly of fucking tunnels and corridors going nofucking where.
mircea_popescu: why, because that's what the imbecile making the movie saw in star wars ?
mircea_popescu: no fucking research facility, let alone super-whatever base is designed like that!
mircea_popescu: phf it can sound, depending how fast you go.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, the original trope of 'fortress with many corridors going nowhere' has a root in history: anti-undermining tunnel systems from medieval times. largely undocumented (passed by word of mouth) and in some cases survived to 19th c., spawning the meme.
mircea_popescu: it has no such root. castles were expensive, because of the stone. ~nobody built anything without a very good purpose.
phf: well, it's also doom 1 map convention "if it looks cool and complicated and lets you run through it's a base"
mircea_popescu: there were some tubes, used to throw rocks from very high parapets, later on
mircea_popescu: (castle age is separated from cannon age by centuries, ftr.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: anti-undermine tunnel grids EXISTED
asciilifeform: and were in fact 'corridors to nowhere'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure. but as far as cultural impact goes, the catacombs (ie, burial site in old city) were much more important.
mircea_popescu: heck, most of ladri de biciclete, a1950s film, takes part in the underground vaults of rome.
asciilifeform: and in fact continued as a thing well into gunpowder age (undermining worked 10x better with kegs of powder than with ordinary dig-tunnel-with-wood-supports-then-burn-them method of old)
mircea_popescu: or 100x even.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, depending on skill of sapper.
asciilifeform: incidentally odessa catacombs continue to eat idiot american tourists.
asciilifeform: legendarily, there is no map.
asciilifeform: a fragment of an old kgb map did once surface, and, lulzily, had markings '10cm', '20cm', etc. old map keeper was asked: 'what are these? cm of water?'
asciilifeform: he answered : 'air.'
asciilifeform: incidentally odessa catacombs had no purpose in the usual sense. they were simply cavity from limestone quarry for the city above.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: just about every respectably old dwelling with a cellar was believed to have some hidden entrance into catacomb.
mircea_popescu: so yes exceptions do exist. but the fact remains that the fucking reason you even take your base to the desert is to be free of this bs.
mircea_popescu: i dunno if you ever played x-com interceptor, which was a splendid game
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: it rocked
mircea_popescu: but imagine if the fucking base was full of corridors omfg!
mircea_popescu: the hangars were bad enough on the defense.
asciilifeform grasps the point
mircea_popescu: it did rock. i once won an attack by the fucking muttons with he.
mircea_popescu: you recall the white-and-red rectangle he ?
asciilifeform: aha!
phf: there was that "if i were an evil overlord thing i will and won't do" list, which ranted on that point
mircea_popescu: ONE GUY survived. but i had 1k+ of the things, and god damned i used most.
mircea_popescu: phf aha!
mircea_popescu: phf think on just one thing : i also train women to be human. oft they get a task to talk to random people. they NEVER get a fucking task to memorize and recite random strings.
mircea_popescu: there sits the chick, confronted with some vacationing kids, she has not the werewithal to ACCEPT their offer for a ride
mircea_popescu: she just has a speech about her dog trudy.
mircea_popescu: i cringe still, the fucking nonsensical horror.
asciilifeform: the film is sorta like american ice cream.
asciilifeform: i do not often eat ice cream, because it is made ~of dish detergent here.
asciilifeform: but every so often i will eat it, because there is not another.
phf: there are some good icecream places. go to franklin fountain in philadelphia for example
mircea_popescu: hey, you wanted me to belabourate!
asciilifeform: aha suuure i will drive 1000km to eat.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha
phf: asciilifeform: we structure our lives very differently, so point taken
asciilifeform: phf: on occasion i go to this cellar in old dc where a buncha turks make ~actual ice cream.
asciilifeform: but generally i am not near it.
PeterL: asciilifeform arn't you the one who is always complaining you can't move because you need "real food"? yet now you say you have none where you are?
phf: asciilifeform: you know the name of that cellar?
mircea_popescu: he eats butterfly-fed cats.
mircea_popescu: who are you to judge.
asciilifeform: PeterL: aaaactually i can't move because wurk
asciilifeform: phf: i utterly forget the name, but it is on dupont
mircea_popescu: i hope to one day live to see alf unable to leave because love.
phf: i'll keep that in mind
mircea_popescu: that'd complete teh infecta.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think you might have me mixed with TaT
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my pet is 100% portable.
asciilifeform: not even expensive.
mircea_popescu: and in fairness food was always why you wanted TO move,
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the infecta is the infecta!
asciilifeform: food is just the most immediately palpable pleasure of going outside the jail.
mircea_popescu: when i first left romania, "everyone" was pretty sure that ain't never happening. even had driver carry distraught damsel all the way to airport, 400 miles, and then carry her bawwing earthly coil back to cluj.
phf: dc food is not very good
mircea_popescu: but... all things can be fixed, and there's jewish butchers in new york and plenty of italians in boston and whatnot.
asciilifeform: the new york butchers still serve chemically-addled cow, etc.
phf: but i've said that before, there are places in u.s. where food is good verging on excellent. there are couple of places in dc (pasta mia in adams morgan, temari in rockville) that have good food, but they are far and few
mircea_popescu: depends. as late as 2004 you could still get a decent steak cut, even in ny.
mircea_popescu: i haven't really been following hence.
asciilifeform: i believe it.
phf: in philadelphia you can buy into a cow share and get a bunch of excellent steak for i suppose once in a year feast
asciilifeform: like medieval peasant...
asciilifeform: mega-pr0gr3ss!
mircea_popescu: hey, you didn't want kings, you got no kings!
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform has nothing against kingz
mircea_popescu: a feast fit for the peasant's table!
phf: of course, you can move to istanbul and have excellent kebab every day, but of course you'll have to work for usg expat style, since who else needs programmers
mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is ~ how romanian village works. if poor, everyone raises pig, cuts for xmas, makes traditional preserves.
mircea_popescu: if rich however, everyone raises pigs, cuts by arrangement, fresh meat 2-3 times a week
mircea_popescu: village is one large wot, practically, once demand exceeds the pig, off its head goes.
mircea_popescu: phf you ever been to istanbul ?
phf: yes
mircea_popescu: did you find that extraordinary kebab shop, 2 squares down from galata ?
mircea_popescu: imo best in town.
phf: there was two places within galata walking distance that we liked
mircea_popescu: i ended up hitting it 2x every time i was by, something else that place. tiny shop too, 100 feet of corner or such.
asciilifeform: lulzy how we are having this thread just as i am about to walk into shit city and eat shit
phf: but my favorite was restaurant on bosphorus. it was intended to be upscale, so they had those middle eastern style stern servers all wearing white and failing at simple tasks, but the kebab was rich and juicy
mircea_popescu: you don't mean the one where they display king carol ist of romania's approval, do you ?
mircea_popescu: i think i still have teh pictures somewhere.
asciilifeform implodes.
mircea_popescu: for your peace of mind it was there a decade ago also, had a lulz with chetty at teh same pretense.
phf: :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, turkey is covered in the sad marks of the misfortune of being too close to romania. the old port to this day carries an inscription explaining how romanian inept handling of explosives burned the whole thing down.
asciilifeform: l0l!
phf: can see plenty of romanian swag at the kopkapi
mircea_popescu: for srs. an as best anyone can discern, it really wasn't even intentional.
mircea_popescu: phf a right, stefan' sword still there neh /
mircea_popescu: roughly equivalent to "here's this shit we captured off fucking isis!"
phf: haha, yes, it's there and it's exactly how i imagined it in person. very medieval christian soldier
asciilifeform: somewhere in the 1,000,000,001 things-i-hate-about-usaschwitz is that it is a world with no past.
asciilifeform: it is palpable.
phf: asciilifeform: there's a good kebab place in vienna which is a 30 minute drive for me, but i still make the trip from time to time, it's worth it. the food is OK, but the atmosphere is very "faux upscale tehran"
phf: http://www.shamshiry.com
asciilifeform puts on list.
mircea_popescu: and to make the story whole : odessa, also marks, misfortune.
mircea_popescu: historically, romanian army conquered the city, derps as they are moved straight into the previous high command. which the soviets had mined. and the romanians didn't bother to check. so it blew up.
mircea_popescu: antonescu got pissed off, rounded population, shot a bunch. because hurr.
asciilifeform: as in kharkov.
phf: in other news, http://glyf.org/tmp/logref.png
asciilifeform: phf: how does this work
mircea_popescu: what's with teh hands ?
phf: up goes to previous entry, down goes to follow ups
phf: err, referenced entry
asciilifeform: neato!
phf: up is superfluous really on account of there being a link, but down lets you see what was referenced later
mircea_popescu pours himself a glass of popcorn, waits for phf to fully ensnare himself in the monstruous task he's contemplating.
mircea_popescu: you understand you're trying to build ai, yes ?
phf: well, would not be the first for a lisper
mircea_popescu: do you speak farsi ? do you know that line with the candleflame ?
mircea_popescu: ("which one ? there's lots!" "aha.")
phf: the hafes one about moth?
phf: ^ that one was easy guess on account of there being like many of those too
phf: there's basically a generic annotation-tron, that walks in memory log entries (on account of the whole past b-a log neatly fitting into 130mb of ram)
phf: and figures out if some worthwhile annotation can be produced
asciilifeform: useful.
asciilifeform: sorta like a 2-pass asm.
phf: two types of references that are fairly easy to produce are back links (that's the one working) and << refs that aren't quite there yet
mircea_popescu: im curious what shall come of this.
phf: and then there's an entry point that takes specific log entry ids (or ranges), so can 1,10,50-100,900 and get them in the same format as above
phf: so mix and match the basic components and you get a working foundation for xref
trinque: damned cool.
phf bbl
thestringpuller: phf: turning the logs into genius.com?
pete_dushenski: are logs live yet ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: do you have a copy of yegge's "quality without a name" stashed somewhere?
mircea_popescu: phf for my curiosity, will << be a reserved symbol ? to demonstrate to alf the value and importance of in-band control codes ?
mircea_popescu: or are you actually building binary tree out of loglines, and will identify references that way.
ben_vulpes: http://i.imgur.com/lQxpEJk.png
ben_vulpes: ^^ 256 bit
ben_vulpes: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/SelectronTube4096bit.jpg << 4096
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: waiwut
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yegge ?
ben_vulpes: mhm, steve yegge had a piece called "quality without a name", large part was how amazon used (heavily customized) emacs for customer support during the early years, and support staff hated everything that came afterwards
asciilifeform: nfi.
deedbot-: [Qntra] US Court Upholds Right To Feed Legal Profession - http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-court-upholds-right-to-feed-legal-profession/
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 405024 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 191 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 4 hours, 17 minutes, and 46 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: oddy i recall this piece.
BingoBoingo: In other reasons not to consort with random non-qntra journalists, Conde Nast writer serves process to fisherman trying to get compensated for lost time https://archive.is/kJi6R
trinque: ben_vulpes: http://archive.is/20060403140224/http://www.cabochon.com/~stevey/blog-rants/tour-de-babel.html << original link is dead
BingoBoingo: "She wanted the buoy," he recalled. "I said: 'There's been some damage done, due to the loss of days, and time,' and she said she's not authorized to relinquish any money. At that point, she said: 'Don't you know we're the US government?'"
BingoBoingo: Sherer took that as a statement that the government can essentially do what it likes—a claim he found unbelievable.
asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2016/03/us-court-upholds-right-to-feed-legal-profession/#comment-50037
ben_vulpes: aup that's the one trinque thanks
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aha
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo http://macmint.superglobalmegacorp.com
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: http://philipmaymin.com/papers/Philip%20Maymin%20and%20Zakhar%20Maymin%20-%20Any%20Regulation%20of%20Risk%20Increases%20Risk%20-%20FMPM%202012.pdf << 'Thus, we conclude that the effect of any objective rules for regulation will result both in more risk being taken by each individual bank, and by the risks taken by different banks to be more correlated with each other, resulting in a far more fragile financial system than
pete_dushenski: d be the case otherwise. The only other option is to not regulate at all, and to not insure deposits. This would leave each bank, and its customers and depositors, with the ultimate responsibility of determining the appropriate risk capital. This option deserves greater consideration in light of the results of this paper.'
pete_dushenski: ^for the policy-minded
pete_dushenski: in other news, i managed to [absent-mindedly] get a 0txfee tx broadcast, and am now waiting to see if any miners are going to snap it up. doesn't look like there are many 0txfees being incorporated into blocks atm, so i'm not holding my breath on a quickee
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: now you gotta doublespend a couplea times!111
pete_dushenski: i tried !!
asciilifeform: and at least 1 from different addr.
pete_dushenski: hm ?
ben_vulpes: it's not a true double spend unless you spend...twice.
ben_vulpes: tangentially relatedly, i've been trying to reconcile "designing a fork to heal the breach between miners and nodes" with "proceed from causes not towards purposes"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: actually we finally invented the Triple Spend !
ben_vulpes: "we", but aha
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: when you doublespend at somebody you owe to already, and then insist on paying'em again (see the mega-thread where this was posited)
ben_vulpes: quadruple if you count the second, right?
pete_dushenski: "we the republic"
ben_vulpes: what we, what republic.
asciilifeform: aha you get quadspend if you 0fee when you're tripling...
asciilifeform: N-spend!
ben_vulpes: afaict there is mircea_popescu's court, some dismally jolly sappers digging tunnels, and some people emptying bedpans in their finery
asciilifeform: 17:26 <+ben_vulpes> tangentially relatedly, i've been trying to reconcile "designing a fork to heal the breach between miners and nodes" with "proceed from causes not towards purposes" << this is not a mega-conundrum.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: finally got the '1 from different addr'... and as fucking if!
asciilifeform: https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5909 << related new lulz
asciilifeform: 'If we withhold the same-address pending bets, the loss of 17.93766065 BTCs becomes 4.31574744 BTCs. Moreover, if we withhold the same-payer simultaneous bets (the three 2.00000000 BTC bets; 1G7VC(btc-700-apr), 16LZu(jeb-bush-rnom), 1H2YT(silver-19-apr)), the loss becomes 2.12225210 BTCs: [details snipped]'
trinque: ben_vulpes: many things called themselves republic throughout history, but I don't see how there being a court precludes there being a republic.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: "it's gw bush's fault that obama sucks isis brown dong in the middle east and it's his ~brother's~ fault that bitbet is insolvent. dagnammin bushes RUINING ALL THE THINGS"
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: and if you want an example of the use of "we" that actually makes no sense, see ascii's commenter bud
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: if he had said 'you', would this scratch your itch ?
pete_dushenski: to the extent that i have an itch, and to the extent that commenter bro is outside of wot, sure
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the arithmetic in the claim is VERIFIABLE.
ben_vulpes: trinque: i'd expect at least a court and a forum
ben_vulpes: subject of, why did mircea_popescu choose to stay on fleanode?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: what's the arithmetic have to do with anything ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: if you don't care for the answer, i won't bother to try and convince you. i believe that we already had good thread about this in the old logz, with davout even (who is stuck with the actual surgery)
pete_dushenski: kid on reddit has ideas about how the world ~should~ be and uses verifiable math to demonstrate that socialism is best -ism. this is the exact same, and equally inapplicable to davout's work.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have nfi, ask him
trinque: next step ought be gossipd neh?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: were you there for the mega-thread re: which of the two cuts actually is a socialist thing ?
pete_dushenski: hm, don't recall atm
pete_dushenski: bbias
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: see if this rings a bell. there were two kinds of bettors on bbet. one that did not get double-paid. and one that 1) did 2) kept quite, kept the coin and possibly a 3) got double-paid, returned the coin. i am not aware of any (3) and kakobrekla stated that 3 was empty set.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i argued that giving equal haircut to (1) and (2) is a communist idiocy.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo> "She wanted the buoy," he recalled. "I said: 'There's been some damage done, due to the loss of days, and time,' and she said she's not authorized to relinquish any money. At that point, she said: 'Don't you know we're the US government?'" <<< bwahahaha
mircea_popescu: lovely, rly.
asciilifeform: * kept quiet
mircea_popescu: conde nast! of all people.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> afaict there is mircea_popescu's court, some dismally jolly sappers digging tunnels, and some people emptying bedpans in their finery << becauyse why, we're 5yos and the alternatives we perceive are either cartman's own "whatever, i do what i want" or otherwise "we live in a dictatorship!111" ?
mircea_popescu: for the record : republic does not in any sense mean nor at any time did mean anything about individual liberty, and especially nothing about individual liberty to be a dumbass without consequence.
BingoBoingo: And seriously. Kyle needs to stahp the speeches.
mircea_popescu: it means something about structures of meaning, and that's about all. it doesn't even insist you don't go "lalala i cant' hear".
mircea_popescu: trinque> next step ought be gossipd neh? <<< yes. but you know... no cipher yet even.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> subject of, why did mircea_popescu choose to stay on fleanode? << i chose nothing. i simply saw that teh republic chose to not make any usable susbitute yet, and so here we are. why do you ask ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm testing a very preliminary cstron.
mircea_popescu: hey, don't take this the wrong way, i understand why there isn't one, which is why ~i~ haven't said anything about it.
asciilifeform: (this re cipher)
mircea_popescu: but entertaining the humours of the youthful aspie
mircea_popescu: which possibly stands for "aspirational"
BingoBoingo: aspersational
ben_vulpes is suitably entertained
mircea_popescu: to force a comparison, the difference between a republic and all and sundry other group organizing patters is that the republic is a complete algebra (ie, elements, defined operations) whereas the rest is (necessarily, and provably so) just a dictionary (ie, list, array) of strings.
mircea_popescu: that one can't find the string he's looking for in the algebra is, at most, an indictment of the one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: everything is either a complete-algebra or a buluceala pit.
mircea_popescu: doh.
asciilifeform: hey apparently it wasn't obvious ?
asciilifeform: (for n00bz - this is the protocol vs promise thing.)
asciilifeform: (do we still have n00bz tuning in..?)
trinque out for a while
mircea_popescu: prolly loads and loads of "noobs", mostly of the purposefully deliberate quality, once website.
mircea_popescu: at any rate : there's about as much room for democracy in a republic as there is for samples in formal logic. completely immiscible things.
mircea_popescu: "For example, a different federal statute provides that title to property used to commit a crime (or otherwise “traceable” to a crime) passes to the Government at the instant the crime is planned or committed." <<< ahahaha check out the ancient escheat to the crown in cases of treason!
mircea_popescu: lovely shitpit ye got over there roflmao.
asciilifeform: this bit is well-known afaik
asciilifeform: at least since the dpr thing
asciilifeform: also ianal but there is probably more gnarl to it, otherwise usg would have to charge, e.g., dope peddler, with trespassing on usg property by occupying his house the day after the dope peddlin' , etc
BingoBoingo: http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=bike_haters
mircea_popescu: well, no, usg has no obligation to uphold the laws, somehow.
mircea_popescu: if they get a power and don't use that power they don't hang for failure to use.
mircea_popescu: so... they accumulate.
ben_vulpes: b-b-but BingoBoingo "the columns of caaarz!"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i still can't fathom why bicycle is permitted but not horse.
ben_vulpes: horse is only not in your particularly insane part of the states
ben_vulpes: there are notorious questions on the or dl test about rider signalling. yes, /horse/ rider signalling.
ben_vulpes: bikers are supposed to just get the fuck out of the way, sensibly.
asciilifeform: where are the dedicated horse lanes!?!111111
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: fuck that, the city is spending money to make bike depots, where's my hay station ?
mircea_popescu: "oh, not enough people want it" wtf sort of argument is this.
asciilifeform: ^
ben_vulpes: not the right people
ben_vulpes: only people biking in town are noisy impoverished children like myself
mircea_popescu: aha
ben_vulpes: horses are more expensive than a car what is this
ben_vulpes: wake me when the us starts making roads out of something other than oil byproducts again
mircea_popescu: how are horses fucking expensive ?!
mircea_popescu: they eat hay.
mircea_popescu: costs 0! grows by self!
asciilifeform: grows in flower pot ?
mircea_popescu: no, side of road :D
asciilifeform: in the kitchen window ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've often wondered if the final de-horsing of major cities happened at the magic moment when tetraethyl lead made the roadside flora deadly enough.
ben_vulpes mind-blow, horses are free what next houses?
mircea_popescu: schmucky socialists, you know, always with their bs. "oh cars are bad because oil - bikes better" "horses even better!" "oh that's not fair because uses beast, bike uses your own ass". o i see how it is, the only thing they ACTUALLY hate is powerful people, as long as it results in a reduction of individual power they like anything it may be.
ben_vulpes: "slaves build 'em!"
ben_vulpes: hey i never said better
mircea_popescu: i'm not arguing with you!
mircea_popescu: i'm arguing with a composite of people i don't know.
ben_vulpes: hay is for horses, not arguments
ben_vulpes actually could, but prefers not to
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... the only thing they ACTUALLY hate is powerful people, as long as it results in a reduction of individual power they like anything
asciilifeform: << ilkka has essay
asciilifeform: on this
ben_vulpes: depreciation, maintenance, spine damage, vulnerability to other humans and their wrecking-ball-vehicles
asciilifeform: was ~= this very same observation.
asciilifeform: except, essay concerned plastic
mircea_popescu: well unsurprising, the common substance of female whining is directly obvious to anyone who bitchslaps enough banshees.
mircea_popescu: not some sort of grand arcana.
mats: http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/30/11331014/microsoft-windows-linux-ubuntu-bash
mats: >Microsoft is adding the Linux command line to Windows 10: Bash coming to Windows is huge news for developers, developers, developers
ben_vulpes: welcome to...1970?
ben_vulpes still waiting for integrated apple/ms/mobile linux
mircea_popescu: so basically windows is turning into yet-another-systemd ?
mats: i look forward to moar attack surface
ben_vulpes: i thought systemd was modeled after windows
mircea_popescu: iirc it was modeled after stupid.
ben_vulpes: molded by stupid, from shit
shinohai: +mats i look forward to moar attack surface <<< keks
mircea_popescu: heh maddox doing typically maddox pieces in 2016 is so... weird.
mircea_popescu: almost like some dude going on horseback from bufallo to albany
mircea_popescu: coupla days' hard riding, but worth every minute!
deedbot-: [fr.anco.is] Protected: BitBet receivership progress report #1 - http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-progress-report-1/
davout: argh, fail
mircea_popescu: how long has it been even, like a week maybe ?
mircea_popescu: a yeah just exactly.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: sorry, musta skimmed that bit of the old logs. but who's to say that bettors take any haircut at all ?
ben_vulpes: y'all never stripped out the 2 weeks?
mircea_popescu: iirc he took out the tm part.
ben_vulpes: hahaha
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: costs 0! grows by self! << there was an amusing bit in 'what i learned losing a million dollars' about how feller bought 'investment horse' and spent boatloads on medical bills before thing... croaked.
mircea_popescu: o yea.
mircea_popescu: it's insanity to try owning horses in shitlands.
mircea_popescu: by and large, if you can't shoot it yourself, the land is shitland.
pete_dushenski: you pretty much can't crash 'investment car' hard enough that you'd lose every penny you ever sunk into it.
ben_vulpes: "this land is shit land, that land is shitland, from the trash of new york, to the smog of l.a......"
mircea_popescu: just wait till you have an investment kid.
pete_dushenski: but you can shoot car! just leave to rust in farmer's field.
ben_vulpes: just send kid to public skool
pete_dushenski: investment kid... does food count ?
ben_vulpes: less of a shooting and more of a staking out for carrion birds though
pete_dushenski: cuz i'm not sure i can even keep up with the amount this bam-bam eats.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: plugging his hole with the pastes?
pete_dushenski might need fourth, fifth job.
mircea_popescu: i thought you were a filthy kulak, what jerb.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: [blended] fruits, vegs, yogurt, crackers, formula. all steeply-priced organic, obv.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: ah but you see, i'm cheep.
pete_dushenski: so i largely avoid expenses that i can't bill to a company in one manner or another.
mircea_popescu: lol. i c.
pete_dushenski: it's the poor farmer in me.
pete_dushenski: 'a penny saved is a penny earned' (tm)
mircea_popescu: no, it's the not-poorfag in you. maybe some rubs off on these other louts!
pete_dushenski: i don't think my lavishly publicised expenditures on eizos and lexuses are going to help that effort.
mircea_popescu: i used to do the same thing, but meanwhile moved in a country where everyone pisses in the govt's face. (seriously, teh unions are actually putting up ads going "ganancia no es ingreso", ie, they don't have fucking income tax here)
pete_dushenski: might be time to change the flavour of contravex to that of the mrmoustacheguy
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the horse and hay, mark twain has a funny bit about his caballine purchase in drought-struck nevada.
pete_dushenski: reading 'titan' (mega-jdr bio) and longing for days of 3% income tax for $600-10k, 5% over $10k
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: this is before it paid for nukes aha.
pete_dushenski: can't bring myself to calculate how [much] rich[er] i'd be at such rates.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: afaik modern day champ is ru, at 15% flat.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: aha. ru also offers 9% on 5-year bonds. sign a nigga up!
mircea_popescu: lmao
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski can sign up as easily as anyone
pete_dushenski: saxo bank. 50k euro min purchase.
asciilifeform: i thought pete_dushenski was mega-l0ad3d
asciilifeform: go, buy.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: only compared to you ;)
mircea_popescu: sure sure, but alf can manufacture his own tanks.
asciilifeform: veryveryslowly.
pete_dushenski: now that Great Divestment is upon us, i am in fact considering ru bonds.
pete_dushenski: how could i not ?
mircea_popescu: russia exists out of the tolerance to poverty of its women and the rich subsoil. not much call for the latter in the much slower economy of the future. so rather than buying bonds...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ukrs got the subsoil
mircea_popescu: well the ukrs also got teh sluts, what's your point.
pete_dushenski: rich subsoil makes sluts ? vice versa ?
mircea_popescu: just fortunate fortuity.
asciilifeform: we had, long ago, a mega-thread about the 'tolerance to poverty' thing
asciilifeform: re how it is possibly ~the~ mega-nonrenewable resource
mircea_popescu: did i tell the joke with the various women in various countries ?
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: there's this sociological experiment underway, consisting of secluding a woman and a dozen men of different countries.
mircea_popescu: after which, their reports are taken as to their experience.
mircea_popescu: teh english rose : "oh, had a lovely time, went for long walks on the beach..." "but what about the men ?" "oh, i did see some gentlemen, but we weren't introduced."
mircea_popescu: teh frenchwoman : "ah, it was fabulous, the first day i was the wife of pierre and jean-luc was my secret lover and autre-pierre was my autre-secret lover and then next day stephen was my husband but he didn't know i was secretly married to lucien and also..."
mircea_popescu: finally they also ask teh russian how it went
mircea_popescu: "oh my fucking god, fucking horrible. they started drinking with the dawn, spent all day gangraping me, then all night long these tedious endless meetings to draw the attention of the collective to immodest, unsoviet behaviours and identify & castigate the guilty"
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform bbl