log
76 entries in 0.69s
asciilifeform: re whitening, it might be interesting to apply 'dragonfly fpga' to 'distinguish sha'd bitstream from nonsha'd'
asciilifeform: 'whitening' and all the other sins, flow from it
asciilifeform: phf: ... or where the author elaborately justifies 'whitening'
asciilifeform: 'whitening'
asciilifeform: which is 'whitening' if the starting material is 0000....000 , but doesn't hurt if trng.
asciilifeform: doesn't advocate whitening, or any other obvious liquishit, which is a jawdropping rarity.
asciilifeform: whitening == gluing petrol tank gauge to 'full'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform otherwise, the presence of "whitening" is conversely the statement of the impossibility of proper "ent"
asciilifeform: if i want whitening, i can dd if=/dev/urandom .
mats: https://www.tindie.com/products/WaywardGeek/infinite-noise-true-random-number-generator i have one of these and creator says whitening's built into the driver, so you could give that a shot or wait for me to do it
a111: Logged on 2015-01-15 00:45 asciilifeform: (what rng? ring oscillator jitter, with sha1 whitening.)
asciilifeform: see also http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg .
asciilifeform: this came up in the rng whitening thread, but bears mentioning now and again
asciilifeform: so i hand-cranked the sequence using mircea_popescu's method, to agglomerate, forever, a record of the path through the tree. and he is right that this will keep the toposort from detecting a loop. but this is rather like whitening an rng, it confuses only the machine, but not the reader, who will see that the ~output~ resulting from following the path is identical.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557132 << guess why "whitening" is so important for the imperials.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 17:40 asciilifeform: 'Data coming from true random number generators is never 100% random. I am aware of no exceptions. Whitening is required in all cases before the data is suitable for use in cryptography.' << from first link
scriba: Logged on 2016-09-08: [17:40:27] <asciilifeform> 'Data coming from true random number generators is never 100% random. I am aware of no exceptions. Whitening is required in all cases before the data is suitable for use in cryptography.' << from first link
asciilifeform: 'Data coming from true random number generators is never 100% random. I am aware of no exceptions. Whitening is required in all cases before the data is suitable for use in cryptography.' << from first link
a111: 51 results for "whitening", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=whitening
asciilifeform: $s whitening
asciilifeform: 'whitening.'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg/#comment-67939 << answr.
BingoBoingo: Question http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg/#comment-67915
asciilifeform: dafuq is 'fixed' whitening.
asciilifeform: whitening is in a class of similar items, childhood fears coupled to faux techno-fixes, deserves own separate discussion one day imho.
asciilifeform: the fundamental psychiatric reason why folks like whitening, is, i suspect, a demon that wakes them up at night:
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not for whitening ; for acordeoning
asciilifeform: whitening sux.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/pub/20166313-pg1_2.png and http://www.loper-os.org/pub/20166313-pg2_2.png (depdfization of dorre and klebanov's report on gpg whitening idiocy)
asciilifeform: dump is post-whitening.
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/security/comments/4y8w7s/rng_whitening_bug_weakened_all_versions_of_gpg/
mircea_popescu: whitening eh.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg/#comment-67543
BingoBoingo: https://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/4y8xo1/rng_whitening_bug_weakens_gpg/ << try to browse to
mod6: <@deedbot> http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg/ << Qntra - RNG Whitening Bug Weakened All Versions of GPG << f.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg/ << Qntra - RNG Whitening Bug Weakened All Versions of GPG
asciilifeform: during my audit of the rng routine, i barfed at the whitening and stopped reading.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, "owned by whitening" is not altogether a bad theory wrt the null-entropy keys. ie, "they replaced rng with null-outputting one, never noticed because whitening". this, of course, doesn't explain why gpg would end up with null-generated keys, but whatevs.
mircea_popescu: (incidentally those "accidental"-deliberate fucktards : fixed whitening scheme ? really ? what the FUCK! if there's anything in the entire fucking os the user must be able to customize, it's NOT the fucking glyph table / window size for the love of christmas fucks!)
mircea_popescu: (also by definition whitening doesn't trivially pass the tests, just superficially seems to.)
asciilifeform: http://people.item.ntnu.no/~danilog/Hash/Non-random-behaviour-narrow-pipe-designs-03.pdf << interesting re 'whitening' etc. (tldr: no known hash behaves like 'random oracle', demonstrably)
mircea_popescu: sbp> why not of ecc? <<< it's in the logs! but in summary : direct equivalent of the obscurantist practice of "whitening" except with math rather than rngs.
asciilifeform: it is entirely like whitening.
mircea_popescu: whitening.
jurov: "whitening is racist!!!" lmao
punkman: isn't compressing your otp akin to whitening?
mircea_popescu: the idea that "better box" rather than "larger blocks" prevents from that is not unlike the fundamental idea at the basis of whitening.
asciilifeform: (and 'rng with whitening' which IS a prng)
asciilifeform: this is quite like the 'rng whitening'.
assbot: Logged on 16-12-2015 16:49:12; mircea_popescu: check it out asciilifeform someone decided to solve the problem of ugc by adding... WHITENING!
mircea_popescu: check it out asciilifeform someone decided to solve the problem of ugc by adding... WHITENING!
ascii_field: he asked 'i get 7.9999999 bts/byte from urandom, why not from yours' and we had a chat about the idiocy of whitening
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2015 13:57:12; asciilifeform: there is the basic truth, and there is, on top of it, a massive 'field' of exercises in self-delusion (e.g., 'whitening.')
asciilifeform: there is the basic truth, and there is, on top of it, a massive 'field' of exercises in self-delusion (e.g., 'whitening.')
mircea_popescu: and tooth whitening.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 14:57:39; jurov: "Internal Whitening" ftw
asciilifeform: jurov: and yes, they are typically 'best practices' retarded - e.g., 'whitening' etc
jurov: "Internal Whitening" ftw
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ben_vulpes a fine example of the perils of "whitening".
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 20:38:05; asciilifeform: Rassah: why are you using whitening (hashing) in rng? and 'because everyone does' is not acceptable answer.
asciilifeform: 'whitening' an rng is mostly fooling yourself.
assbot: 15 results for 'whitening' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=whitening
asciilifeform: !s whitening
asciilifeform: 'conditioning' normally called 'whitening'
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (what rng? ring oscillator jitter, with sha1 whitening.) <<< better than many
asciilifeform: (what rng? ring oscillator jitter, with sha1 whitening.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the people who think whitening does something ?
asciilifeform: 'any periodic noise that makes it through simply reduces the bits/byte number of the entropy and gets smeared out by subsequent whitening' << is he serious? gotta be trolling
mircea_popescu: by the time you've got a few tbs of rainbow tables you generally also have a good enough understanding of why exactly whitening doesn't do much.
BingoBoingo: reeses: rng whitening http://www.epmonthly.com/www.epmonthly.com/features/current-features/oxygen-is-a-drug-act-accordingly/ Rassah alf
mircea_popescu: whitening is the process of turning the banal 11111 string into b0baee9d279d34fa1dfd71aadb908c3f
Rassah: I asked. Can you tell me what whitening is? I'm not that techie :(
asciilifeform: Rassah: ask him if whitening is used anywhere.
asciilifeform: Rassah: why are you using whitening (hashing) in rng? and 'because everyone does' is not acceptable answer.
asciilifeform: Rassah, mircea_popescu: then one last question, for if/when he does. value of adjacent sram cells is correlated. what, if anything, was done about this? (my guess - nothing but the usual 'whitening'.)
BTC-Mining: rg: how about shaving and going out in the sun every now and then? Get some all natural "de-whitening" treatment?