log
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mircea_popescu: and in other "i can't believe it's not butt-er", https://68.media.tumblr.com/f7dcd66710edeb9ffa4565cd0cbf3077/tumblr_omp9juCdzX1vczyw6o2_1280.jpg
shinohai: Cornhole datwith this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEahtE1W0AEnWxa.jpg
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681458 << massive ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-10 23:07 jurov: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1681019 i tried and liked https://github.com/conspack/cl-conspack
asciilifeform: ( and -- damningly -- i can't think of why. )
mod6: evenin'
mod6 sprays down the whiteboard
mod6: !#s toom
a111: 11 results for "toom", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=toom
asciilifeform: mod6: toom-cook ?
asciilifeform: generalization of karatsuba, but pretty useless for fitsinhead rsatron imho
asciilifeform: ( only begins to +ev a considerable way above 8192b )
mod6: yeah, just wanted to remember/remind myself of why we didn't use that, and looked at karatsuba instead, but then saw this again: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-21#1659981 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-05-21 16:47 asciilifeform: because ALL ops take same time, so karatsuma, toom-cook, etc. cannot work because they fundamentally rely on breaking large x*y into a number of smaller a1*b1, a2*b2, ...
asciilifeform: same reason i didn't implement fft
mod6: ah, and there was a time when L was not part of the plan
asciilifeform: note that our L does not depend on the results of the arithmetic at any point
mod6: mircea_popescu: my eyyyes
mod6: asciilifeform: indeed, was just re-reading. makes sense.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2FAC60661995A00418D5429654E10DD273A94CF808ACA4449782DB8DB28ECE27 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1668...2909 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.13.39.162 (ssh-rsa key from 83.13.39.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fbn162.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2FAC60661995A00418D5429654E10DD273A94CF808ACA4449782DB8DB28ECE27 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1447...7557 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.13.39.162 (ssh-rsa key from 83.13.39.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (fbn162.internetdsl.tpnet.pl. PL)
mod6: f, my ffa is super old
mod6: nevermind found one
mod6: asciilifeform: you mind throwing me your W_Add_D, i don't seem to have one.
asciilifeform: mod6: see in https://archive.is/DGDu1
mod6: thx
mod6: are 'Lo : Word; \n Hi : Word;' initialized to zero on the first pass through Col(...) by default?
asciilifeform: mod6: they dun need initializing, they are the low and high words of word*word mul
asciilifeform: ( also posted earlier, at some point )
asciilifeform: ( they get set afresh each time it muls )
mod6: ok, my bad, i see those are the output words for W_Mul, XY_LW and XY_HI.
mod6: (im going through by hand here...)
mod6: lol, im gonna need a bigger board.
mircea_popescu: mod6 makes a by hand unrolling because why not :D
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in byw news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/8abe3546f7076a75f572488328d5f661/tumblr_oevzazQFPS1rjwj6to1_1280.jpg
mod6: lol, im probably just dim, but i think it's the only way im gonna understand things thing through and through
mircea_popescu: sounds legit actually.
mod6: holy moly
mod6: my gurl is like X_X
mircea_popescu: hm ?
mod6: workin through this on the board. so!
mod6: i did solve a few of my own questions so far on it.
mod6: and gleaned a few things I didn't notice earlier.
mod6: i haven't gone all the way through the W_Mul yet, but just unrolling it as said.
mod6: for i in L .. 2*L - 2 loop
mod6: Col(i, i - L + 1, L - 1);
mod6: this was throwing me off earlier today ^
mod6: but now, it's starting to make sense.
mod6: this is neat
mod6: now that i've got that part in my head, now can tackle the rest tomorrow.
mod6: damn, i wanna be on whatever deck she's on.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/credibility-of-us-universities-falling-as-desire-for-great-again-takes-lead-in-culture-war/ << Qntra - Credibility Of US Universities Falling As Desire For "Great Again" Takes Lead In "Culture War"
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/07/10/the-wallet-inspectors-promise-v-ico/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The Wallet Inspector’s Promise v.”ICO”
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6B3CA2F9FC994FCEF29102187AA563F096485E5B262AADFA403E301E941AC291 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1570...7077 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.86.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 210.86.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (210-86-180-160.static.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6B3CA2F9FC994FCEF29102187AA563F096485E5B262AADFA403E301E941AC291 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1407...5429 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.86.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 210.86.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (210-86-180-160.static.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
asciilifeform: http://210.86.180.160/ << lol, readable dirs
mod6: mornin'
ben_vulpes: ola
mod6: how goes?
ben_vulpes: self-administered "remedial binary arthmetic with practical applications" course is very educational; going well ☟︎
ben_vulpes: yrself?
mod6: good!
asciilifeform: in other 'news', '-gnatG' flag is very very spiffy ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: barfs raw ast out of gnat
asciilifeform: pretty great for debugging failures of, e.g., pragma Restrictions(No_Implicit_Conditionals);
mod6: cool
asciilifeform: so for instance i throw in pragma Restrictions (No_Exception_Propagation); and see "Constraint_Error may result in unhandled exception" and then wonder where,
asciilifeform: and /me considered pasting the example, but turns out it potentially fires in every single line, lol
mod6: ah.
asciilifeform: mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Ibqes/?raw=true << example with w_mul
mod6: ok neat, i just ran it against my V stuff, seems to dump out all of the symbols or whatnot
mod6: ah, that's sweet asciilifeform
asciilifeform: ikr?
asciilifeform: see the classic, https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/ , and the rms thread, re why this is not available for c/cpp gcc
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-10#971993 << thread. possibly elsewhere also. ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-01-10 05:46 mircea_popescu: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00205.html
mod6 reads the rms thread
mod6: lol
asciilifeform: !!up fromdeedbot
deedbot: fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
fromdeedbot: !!wot
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xlTE7/?raw=true
phf: bold move
trinque: omg, smash and grab
asciilifeform: http://gcc-melt.org << of potential trbological interest.
asciilifeform: mod6 et al ^
ben_vulpes: pretty excellent website
shinohai: nifty!
asciilifeform has not tried $subj
mod6 looks
mircea_popescu: and in percussion engine news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/fa600ff8d20f4ebbca0145e436639b74/tumblr_oaobhtXoVg1tarv7io1_500.gif
shinohai: Such efficiency
mircea_popescu: every stroke is precious, every stroke is good ☟︎
mircea_popescu: iof a stroke is wasted god gets quire irate
BingoBoingo: In other news: Fake news attacking idiot son (Donald Jr.) for trying to impress father because shut out of campaign as an idiot
shinohai: fake news is where the $ is at these dayz
BingoBoingo: Try telling that to CNN
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/fake-news-washington-post-changes-tune-on-russian-collusion/ << Qntra - Fake News Washington Post Changes Tune On Russian Collusion
BingoBoingo: ^ misc corrections applied.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-11#1681522 << how's teh fhf perfing coming along ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-11 16:30 ben_vulpes: self-administered "remedial binary arthmetic with practical applications" course is very educational; going well
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo espicially
mircea_popescu: "As recently as earlier today, the Fake News empire turned idiot son Donald Junior's gullibility with respect to a phishing scheme1 into their latest headline of the day which they will use to sell loyal consumers of their fiction product on the "certain end" of the 8 year Trumpreich in spite of all the actual evidence running to the contrary of their narrative supported instead by a complete lack of evidence."
mircea_popescu: this is not a sentence.
mircea_popescu: wtf, newswriting not dictionary boating accident
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the land of toy crypto, https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/655 >> '...Inmarsat satellite phones... the 64-bit encryption-key... recovered in around 0.02s on average'
asciilifeform: elsewhere, 'karpeles pleads notguilty'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: slowlybut surely, expanding the horizon of things i understand, taking the time to make sure i understand each part.
mircea_popescu: aite
asciilifeform: ...but confesses to tape-painting bot
ben_vulpes: byte arrays to integers for the m+1, m+2, coercions for byte arrays to integers, bit arrays for flipping random bits,
mircea_popescu: karpeles and carl force "trials", parallel lulz constructions.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes here's a high pay grade question for you : of the two models of "controlled de-entropy" i spawned in a week, specifically a) count of randomly placed flipped bits, as in the discussion with you re that and b) string of randomly initiated, n bit long SET bits, as discussed in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681268 which does the bitcoin foundation regard as a better candidate for standardization as "the republic' ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-10 19:50 mircea_popescu: which incidentally brings us to a very workable and very useful tmsr definition of entropy quality : take a FG string. flip a number of consecutive bits to 1. the result is your entropy quality, such as 100/1mb if you flipped 100 bits.
mircea_popescu: s measure of de-entropied bitstream" ?
mircea_popescu: and, of course, "and why ?".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd like to see an expanded algo for ^
mircea_popescu: which ?
asciilifeform: 'take a FG string... 100bits'
mircea_popescu: let M = FG[1Mb] ; let P = rnd(0, 1Mb) ; let M[P..P+100] = 1.
asciilifeform: what means 'flip a number of consecutive bits to 1' ?
asciilifeform: ( for what does this operation use the original values that came out of the rng ? )
mircea_popescu: for the other 1048476 bits
asciilifeform unable to parse an implementable algo out of the above
mircea_popescu: what's the rub ?
asciilifeform: i have nfi what 'rnd(0, 1Mb)' does
mircea_popescu: produces a random number between 1 and 1048576
asciilifeform: what's FG[1Mb] do ?
asciilifeform: fills 1048576 bits with rngolade?
mircea_popescu: produces a bit-addressable array of 1048576 bits from FG
asciilifeform: and then we take Pth to P+100th bits and.. what then
mircea_popescu: set them to 1.
asciilifeform: what's that do ?
mircea_popescu: it degrades the entropy of M' so obtained.
asciilifeform: aite, and what to do with M and M' ?
mircea_popescu: M' is now a "known low entropy bitfield". we know it to have degraded by 100/1Mb or w/e the case may be
mircea_popescu: then we feed it into entropy-dependent processes (say the rabin miller test, as discussed yest) and see what comes out.
asciilifeform: so this's a 'meta' test of a given dh-style test ?
mircea_popescu: in a sense. it has multiple utilities, it allows you to try and guess (numerically) whether for instance better entropy or more passes are useful for rabin miller
mircea_popescu: which allows you to correctly balance your tester irl.
mircea_popescu: as in, balance it according to a calculation, rather than according t oa feeling.
asciilifeform: incidentally if there's a vonneuman filter in the pipe, setting consecutive bits does 0
asciilifeform: btw, fun project for FG owners -- connect the analogue hoses to something other than the included boards, and see what you get
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is that, yes. but we're doiong this for instrumentation in teh lab not for any other purpose. it's a tracer for entropy, like the shit they make you swallow to see your stomach.
mircea_popescu: they -- also do 0 if not used as prescribed
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> wtf, newswriting not dictionary boating accident << Cleanup ongoing. Probably ought to write before baking brain in heat or sleep and proofread before publishing. /me resets "Days since linguistic boating accident" sign back to 0 days
mircea_popescu: :p
shinohai likes mircea_popescu 's barium enema analogy
shinohai: or cocktail as case may be
asciilifeform: iirc the d00d who found the koch whitening lulzgem used a proggy that worked quite like 'barium enema'
mircea_popescu: shinohai :p
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha!
asciilifeform: traced operand flow
mircea_popescu: poor ben_vulpes has been silent since the blessing of wtf 10 minutes ago.
ben_vulpes: gonna hafta think about it, for sure
mircea_popescu: open question.
mircea_popescu: (ie, i dun have an answer for it myself, nor know how to get one.)
asciilifeform: the possibly paradoxical answer, afaik, is there does not actually exist such a thing as good entropy. only bad and worse.
mircea_popescu: as alf points out, a is "better" in the sense v-n debiaser kills b, if this is a better. unclear.
mircea_popescu: a is also twice as strong, because obviously b will flip on average half the bits it sets. but is this ACTUALLY half ? ie, how do yo umeasure unrandomness ? b is much more strongly patterned than a.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no that's exactly what we're doing. controlledly-bad-level entropy.
asciilifeform: there is no mechanical test that, e.g., 'bitflipped digits of pi' does not also pass.
mircea_popescu: the whole discussion is, given a stream of perfect entropy, how to construct known-degree-of-badness out of it.
asciilifeform: even moar outrageously, adding the 100 1s does not in fact 'turn it bad', the P of these 100 1s appearing in a uniform distrib is >0
mircea_popescu: it turns it... WORSE :D
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: those curious -- straight to your ent, see.
mircea_popescu: and in the process see also that ent is not a very good measurement tool.
asciilifeform: dijkstra's 'testing reveals presence of bugs, but not absence' applies just the same to rng.
asciilifeform: ( statistical tests only reveal broken rng , but never a working one )
mircea_popescu: pass-fail tools notoriously horrendous measurement instruments.
asciilifeform: any test whatsoever, past or future.
asciilifeform: passfail or 1024bit number, dun matter.
shinohai: http://archive.is/OBRuJ <<< Another scammer (soon to turn stripper)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this isn't a matter of testing specified bitfields, but specified ~processes~
asciilifeform: e.g., aes(0, 1, 2, ...., maxint) is perfectly uniform by all known tests.
mircea_popescu: FG + de-entropizer =>
mircea_popescu: shinohai she looks camwhoreable.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i actually considered something that is arguably a variant of your test, when designing FG,
mircea_popescu: "thousands of dollars" for maximal lulz.
ben_vulpes: shinohai: "thousands of dollars!"
shinohai: Would be a lulzy Qntra BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: next the usg is going to get off its ass, discover the whole rapereum "ecosystem" was $7600.
asciilifeform: i.e. a lamp whose brightness is proportional to how close (bits emitted from vonneumann filter per sec) / ( bits entering same, per sec) is to 1
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform practically same thing, just physical.
asciilifeform: eventually i derived that this is equivalent to the equation seen in the 'watchdog' circuit in fg.v
asciilifeform: so we actually have it, in there, nao.
asciilifeform: ( recall the sheet of paper that came with your FG. )
mircea_popescu: so which did you end up implementing, a or b ?
mircea_popescu: superficially sounds like a.
asciilifeform: ( for the intrepid: see http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#L276 , http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#L378 , http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#L475 . )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: b, as i understand, isn't even physically possible without a buffer
asciilifeform: so naturally it's moar 'a'
mircea_popescu: why buffer ?
mircea_popescu: gate, switches on at some point pisses 100 1s, switches back