a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 14:01 mircea_popescu: (we'll skip over the entire "waka" incident for the sake of public morals.)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 14:07 mircea_popescu:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587182 << speaking of this, here's a question for the eager : a diophantine equation is a multivariate polynomial, something like ax+by^2 = 0. the question is : given an arbitrary finite set of known-good equations, can you use recursion to decide whether an arbitrary equation in the same variables is good (has integer solution) or no good ?
mircea_popescu: 1) you can have a list of equations that do have solutions ; 2) that if your list only contains X Y and Z unknowns, then the arbitrary item won't contain Q unknown
mircea_popescu: individually. like the list could be x^2 = 4 ; x = 1 ; x ^ 3 + 5 = 6 - in which case your arbitrary equation may be a polynomial in x but not in x y
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> if you can pound a tungsten carbide nail through something, you can also shoot it. << Why not shoot drill bit, already rifled!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's exactly that, restated to discourage googling. the point being that it is difficult to correctly set the limits of recursion's utility intuitively
mircea_popescu: ie, that it ~feels~ like the problem should have a recursive solution.
mircea_popescu: (it was proven sometime recently omdeed diophantine sets is ~ recursively ennumerable sets, making this a semidecidable problem)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the whole thing was "extension of discussion of basic logic to set theory for the eager minds"
mircea_popescu: nah, it's just to my mind the next logical step after wtf are null sets anyway.
mircea_popescu: the general point being, that the mind is not particularly adept to ~counting sets~ (including and especially in the sense of "Evaluating complexity") which is why it's very easy for it to misjudge the reach and power of recursive methods.
mircea_popescu: anyway, practice of programming, especially in a reasonably clean environment, possesses one of a notion of recursion that is then a fertile ground for mathematical scamming.
mircea_popescu: the diophantine approach above + the "transfinite induction" / von neumann set are pretty much the scylla and charybdis of this sea.
mircea_popescu: so wait, the plan is a) make integer ; b) convert to automaton tape ; c) use that tape as padding ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform would this be better if tape were circular and of size to match our blocks ?
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 913.77, vol: 16658.65410701 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 894.999, vol: 11044.32694 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 915.3, vol: 25751.76340946 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 943.5888, vol: 3223688.07100000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 918.0, vol: 4157.60534408 | Volume-weighted last average: 943.019435087
mircea_popescu: if the message is n long, does the pad-machine tape need to be n^2 ?
mircea_popescu: but the space gets pretty narrow. 3n, you shoot n^(1/2) messages you're suddenly losing
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i can only imagine their disappointment. << lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me ask you this : suppose the tape is byte-sized, and the 8 bits are as follows : 2 bits x movement ; 2 bits y movement ; 2 bits z movement ; stop and flip bits for a total of 8. the tape is now a space.
mircea_popescu: to my mind the only reason to have 1d is if you're going to try and emulate block cyphers ie make it fixed size.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what if i use the following scheme : message padded + 60 bytes of padding key + 4 bytes of iteration count. the tape is producing by doing sha recursively on the padding key and its results iteration count times.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but that's my question, the above is actually what rsa currently uses.
mircea_popescu: it seems to me you can ~actuyally implement~ extant padding schemes in this automaton.
mircea_popescu: the problem is it bloats the message to an incredible size ; which plays poorly with rsa's weakness (slow)
mircea_popescu: if your blocks are of known size, then they're of known size.
mircea_popescu: the whole discussion of blocks vs whole thing is all about this.
mircea_popescu: and the tendency is to move towards whole thingers, hence eg the keccak preference
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i have no actual math to show, but intuitively it seems to me the above "take 64 bytes of rng, iterate hash over the first 60 last 4-times and then use that as tape to pad message, then put padded message + 64 bytes in question in rsatron" is practically useful and theoretically strong.
mircea_popescu: message you want padded is T. i roll a random number, it comes out 1011101011 10
mircea_popescu: i will now proceed to create a string S += hash(1011101011) three times.
mircea_popescu: i will now use S as a tape for the automaton to be applied to T.
mircea_popescu: i will now proceed to create a string S += hash(S+1011101011) three times. << i mean.
mircea_popescu: well, because this way T.p is slightly but not much longer than T.
mircea_popescu: this is also true. problem with it is that it's so damned long.
mircea_popescu: ok, let's go at it another insane way. suppose you pad the message by using... the message as the tape.
mircea_popescu: suppose you actually use the payload itself sqrt(payloadsize) times.
mircea_popescu: no, we're clear on the part where it's pretty expensive.
mircea_popescu: the thing here however is, that incremental improvement may actually be useful. ie, a ~better~ encryption scheme, even if not ~provably the best~.
mircea_popescu: let's consider the case where i want to exchange a 1kb letter. i won't actually use 1mb to feed the tape, but i will use 4kb.
mircea_popescu: i now have to a) generate 4kb of entropy (roughly enough for 8 4096bit rsa keys) ; b) complete 16k operations to pad ; c) execute a 5kb rsa exponentiation. so i'm looking at what, about an hour ?
mircea_popescu: a 5x size penalty for full strength encryption is not inconceivable either.
mircea_popescu: if you make the waltzer start from ~the end~ of the message, even sqrt(n) steps improves rsa enough.
mircea_popescu: you prolly want circular tape the size of message tbh.
mircea_popescu: another problem is the observation that 1011011011 is neutral.
BingoBoingo: Well, they don't know radical honesty is best served nekkid
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about it, the walker scheme doesn't seem too great. the theoretical objection is that it ~does~ introduce structure, through the convention that the walker moves from where it last moved. in practice though, run a few simulations over a 16bit message which you can then print as a 256x256 bitmap. your walker makes anthills basically.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: good thing there's reddit. now that yahoo "finance" closed the public boards, where'd all the scum go.
shinohai would love to see Ver successfully do Unlimited fork, lose all BTC on phorked side
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes lol that leclerc dude is visiting your blog on a weekly basis ? 2, 9, then nobody gave a shit so he skipped 16 and i guess 23, we see him on the 30th ?
mircea_popescu: "we have always been at war with fake news such as any item that is politically inconvenient today."
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 14:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about it, the walker scheme doesn't seem too great. the theoretical objection is that it ~does~ introduce structure, through the convention that the walker moves from where it last moved. in practice though, run a few simulations over a 16bit message which you can then print as a 256x256 bitmap. your walker makes anthills basically.
mircea_popescu: yes. a point n distance from origin has more chances of being walked over than a point 2n distance from origin by a factor of about 1.4
mircea_popescu: this resolves the part where "all have been walked" though not the part where there's structure intrinsic in the method.
mircea_popescu: moreover, to be 99% sure 100% of 64kb were walked, you need millions of steps.
mircea_popescu: specifically 256kb does not even remotely promise for 64kb to be walked. you get a third untouched more than half the time.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 01:15 asciilifeform: the useful envelope of operation comes when you have at least ~16x the bottom limit.
mircea_popescu: but yes, the statement is correct. to restate : 1. padding is defined as a function F (x, y) with x, y and F ∈ N such that 2. F is defined for all (x, y) pairs and that 3. given any set of boolean functions Ki(x) along with their values no Kj(y) can be constructed so their values are known besides K0(y) = true for K0(a) = 1 if a=y and 0 if a!=y and 4. given any set of boolean functions Ki(y) along with their values no Kj(x)
mircea_popescu: can be constructed so their values are known besides K0(x) = true for K0(a) = 1 if a=x and 0 if a!=x.
mircea_popescu: importantly - there is no need for the payload and the padding to be distinguishable.
mircea_popescu: more than that : there can't be conceptual difference between number x and number y.
mircea_popescu: the padding pads the message just as the message pads the padding.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm entirely not up to speed to this, but there actually exists this field in math, of "boolean function sets"
mircea_popescu: they more or less udnerstand they're a formalisation of what the more numerate philosophers call the theory of knowledge.
mircea_popescu: (the above boolean function K is an evident extension of the dericlet function ftr)
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 00:21 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p ... has joined #trilema ... * gabriel_laddel_p has quit (Client Quit) << d00d lost his SECOND key, lemme guess..?
gabriel_laddel: That being said, I'm trying to decrypt my OTP and "gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available".
gabriel_laddel: Re-created (some of) dired in CL last night, perhaps I accidentally deleted it...
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 00:23 asciilifeform: i dun even want to picture how the d00d lives.
mircea_popescu: devwork must be pretty hectic with all this accidental deleting.
gabriel_laddel: Something like that - was hacking out the gesture :control-meta-click in CLIM and was clicking around a lot with it bound to COM-DELETE-FILE
gabriel_laddel: for some reason this required a restart of the application, which _should not be a thing_ in cl.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I have talentless thiel fellows trying to lowball me at the moment, but expect that they'll pay up soon enough.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: are there glassblowing robots for custom labware yet?
☟︎ mircea_popescu is curious if the forum will prefer gabriel_laddel parked in sv start-up over gabriel_laddel parked in park.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I was working for a startup a while ago - but they released toxic fumes into the air without a fume hood, so I quit.
gabriel_laddel: I don't know what it is with the people here, but they're all fucking idiots.
gabriel_laddel: I left out the key part of that story - they released the fumes indoors, in a building the offices they were occupying.
gabriel_laddel: Am not sure. Saw the synth running with broken fume hood, a cracked window and gtfo.
gabriel_laddel: I did sign an NDA, so I'm not going to get into the details of what exactly we were cooking. But yes, it was most certainly toxic.
gabriel_laddel: speaking of nuts, it appears I somehow managed to delete my private key, registering a new one I suppose. And backing it up this time.
gabriel_laddel: wasn't there a scheme implementation dropped into the logs a long time ago?
gabriel_laddel: I had it on a (now dead) harddrive 1.5+ years ago iirc.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 16:51 mircea_popescu: what, like a peptide synth ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 16:40 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: are there glassblowing robots for custom labware yet?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: thus far, never. but it sounds like a fun thing to automate if no one has done it already
gabriel_laddel: along with: machine learning optimized, mechanically articlulated "smartphone" autodialer
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel: to complete the autodialer picture: the latest way american corps try to do "IP protection" is to only let you access data from one phone. Writing a program to drive stylus + camera that digs through arbitrary apps and sucks all the information out of them using OCR would be a lot of fun
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: all the pharmacy techs right now are running these "apps", which operate as a database interface to all the "copyright blah blah blah protected" pharama data
mircea_popescu: most resilient use of self-blown glass was because "it's the only way to get a proper seal"
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel_p: seems I didn't delete new key, but rather forgot to change my nick to gabriel_laddel_p
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 17:58 asciilifeform: common lisp committee was hobbled by babelism, had to stuff in the redundant idiocies, and never got to, say, actually developing streams properly (why the fuck are we stuck with hacks like gray streams? and where is the commonlisp with ~working~ mop ? etc)
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 17:00 gabriel_laddel: to complete the autodialer picture: the latest way american corps try to do "IP protection" is to only let you access data from one phone. Writing a program to drive stylus + camera that digs through arbitrary apps and sucks all the information out of them using OCR would be a lot of fun
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally that nonsense is only superficially related to snowden. in practice it is an extension of the "artificial intelligence" used in "spam detection", especially as the doomed but desperate attempt at websites to fight the republican bots.
mircea_popescu: the other expansion of that is of course the whole "mechanical fakenews detection"
mircea_popescu: basically, the ~one hope of the imperial technologistic church of some sort of practical results is a peculiar form of ai. they're doubling down on it exactly in the manner usg doubled down on "alternative fuels".
mircea_popescu: they will suffer the same fate, too, but until he is killed the death convict still lives like any other.
mircea_popescu: the applications to eg banking are beyond lulzy. but they're willing to destroy the currency (currency ? what currency ? dollars don't pay nothing, it's notes from hitler if you want anything done) to try and prop it up because outside of usg.ai there's nothing
mircea_popescu: it's in the more general form "detection of edges". they want to identify cars, and go winning strategies, and people who don't like them and everything else.
mircea_popescu: and they expect to do it by pouring lots of gb in very trivial neural/expert systems.
mircea_popescu: some comments mp made here last year sent some cold shivers.
mircea_popescu: "why would girl go to all thetrouble of pretending on facebook when she could just walk up to every guy in sight and go "hey, wanna feel my tits ?"
mircea_popescu: the criterion is not "optimal efficiency", but "optimal efficiency in the paradigm space".
mircea_popescu: historical accident be what it may, it can't really be said it constitutes a proper cause.
mircea_popescu: the funny thing is that the approach is trivially defeated in practice. they're relying on a ~fixed~, unchanging enemy. which naivite in the manner of 3yos and their modelling of environment geometries was previously touched upon.
mircea_popescu: but it's why the two week war isn't done after thirteen.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the fate of the socialist empire in its eternal historical cyclicity is fascinating. so - nazis put everything on large tanks ; and failed. but then soviets put everything on a particular notion of industrialization (steel-per-capita industrialization, so to speak) and... failed. so the one socialist empire left standing is putting it all on "ai". and...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i recall this being said here years ago aha.
mircea_popescu: it was also said cca 1800s, it read like "si de-aceea tot ce misca-n tara asta, riul, ramul imi e prieten numai mie, iara tie - dusman ti-este."
mircea_popescu: it's what "totalitarian" means, after all - everyone is the enemy.
mircea_popescu: it's not even some obscure poetic license. basic vocabulary.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suspect on the face, "the difference between stupid 5k cell brains and smart 5k cell brains is in the yottabytes they looked at" is almost persuasive.
mircea_popescu: it certainly is MADE to be persuasive for the sort of minds coming out of ivy league "colleges"
mircea_popescu: which is why we could properly qualify this complex as a memetic virus. it infects, and the host can feel it's infected, but can't prevent the infection.
a111: Logged on 2016-01-26 17:20 ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
mircea_popescu: (ftr, the "100bn neurons" figure IS MISTAKEN. yes at any point you slice a brain you find something like that ; but neurons also die - yet their death is not automatically in vain now is it!)
mircea_popescu: nevertheless - the argument as to neuron count is not directly mass ; it is parts. one DOES compare transistor counts.
mircea_popescu: more like comparing "ast nodes". not the best and not the worst measure of complexity.
mircea_popescu: the notion that loc = revenue is not unlike the notion that fucking is something you wanna do. it's work, let the girl work for it!
a111: Logged on 2014-04-24 22:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Мы Америку догнали. По надоям молока, А по мясу мы отстали: Хуй сломался у быка.'
mircea_popescu: so you can be you know, downvoted on hacker fake news.
shinohai writes down hanbot 's Eulora password
hanbot: lol. juuuust my pw for the coffee cache.
hanbot: iirc second time i've done it, too. kbds everywhere, i guess i'ma install some fucktard blinkenlicten.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 18:01 asciilifeform: dusman!! i had nfi that this persian word, known to half the planet, made it as west as ro
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone saw "when i want to whistle, i whistle" ?
a111: Logged on 2014-03-21 14:23 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the real reason you want a client is that you can then install otr, which is a cryptographically secure plugin allowing you to have private conversations safe from any snoops. and that is good quality safety, not the sort of crud normally peddled.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger should be noted that i was a lot more optimistic about open source in 2014.
Framedragger: certainly noted! assumed as much :) includes increased pessimism for funding OS projects (such as openbsd) etc i guess...
mircea_popescu: anyway, the principle espoused is sound - you want a client because you want to control the software ; the application involved however who knows,.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the problem isn't "founding os projects" but quite orthogonal to that : ustards have a significant mental problem whereby they imagine they will separate funding and activity. the existence of a so called "foundation" is the usual macula of this sort of idiocy, much like chancre is the mark of syphilis.
phf:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590325 << your password is now TMSR Safe(tm) certified. we have analyzed your password using stochastic gradient reduction methods(tm) that have determined that your password is safe from hackers. we recommend changing your existing passwords that are not TMSR Safe(tm) to your new TMSR Safe(tm) password. Ask our representative about helpful tips: how to change your Pretty Good Privacy password to TMSR
☝︎☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 19:48 hanbot: pf4x99nJYL
jhvh1: Last 5 lines bashed and pending publication
hanbot: hahaha TMSR Safe & catfacts, xmas is served!
mircea_popescu: i wonder if sv investors carry 15yo cop insurance for their lead engineers by now.
mats: oculus is literally developed by pedo jews at Facebook
mats: 10/10 qntra headline
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be called speculum rift if this were true ?
phf: "Upon his arrest, Katz told the officer that he was there to rescue the girl, and should have first called police, according to charging documents."
mircea_popescu: self-reported folklore may have a heavy fictitious tinge.
Framedragger: but sometimes one may indulge and do the whole suspension of disbelief thing :) but yes, quite, hm