asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p ... has joined #trilema ... * gabriel_laddel_p has quit (Client Quit) << d00d lost his SECOND key, lemme guess..?
mircea_popescu: maybe power outage.
asciilifeform: or rat gnawed his cable.
asciilifeform: i dun even want to picture how the d00d lives.
mircea_popescu: eh, talk to young women more, you'll get acclimated.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589133 << to my grief, i went and looked this up.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 14:01 mircea_popescu: (we'll skip over the entire "waka" incident for the sake of public morals.)
asciilifeform: 'can't unsee!1111'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589135 << describe plox in slightly more detail : 1) what means 'known good' 2) what means 'same variables'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 14:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587182 << speaking of this, here's a question for the eager : a diophantine equation is a multivariate polynomial, something like ax+by^2 = 0. the question is : given an arbitrary finite set of known-good equations, can you use recursion to decide whether an arbitrary equation in the same variables is good (has integer solution) or no good ?
asciilifeform: (same ~number~ of variables ? )
mircea_popescu: 1) you can have a list of equations that do have solutions ; 2) that if your list only contains X Y and Z unknowns, then the arbitrary item won't contain Q unknown
asciilifeform: they ~individually~ have solutions, or list is a system ?
mircea_popescu: individually. like the list could be x^2 = 4 ; x = 1 ; x ^ 3 + 5 = 6 - in which case your arbitrary equation may be a polynomial in x but not in x y
asciilifeform: then i must say, if i knew the answer, all of the keys on phuctor would be marked 'phucked'
mircea_popescu: o ?
asciilifeform: having tall pile of these does not, via any known method, help.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> if you can pound a tungsten carbide nail through something, you can also shoot it. << Why not shoot drill bit, already rifled!
asciilifeform pictures BingoBoingo's carpentry shop cum rifle range
asciilifeform: in all fairness that is what 'gyrojet' did
asciilifeform: ... fired 'drill bit'.
asciilifeform: !#s gyrojet
a111: 22 results for "gyrojet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gyrojet
asciilifeform: and iirc even ordinary no-name gunshop in usa has 'rifled slug' for 12ga.
asciilifeform: same principle.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, it's why it's a problem.
asciilifeform: it is not a very promising problem as-stated imho. sorta like 'my pet mouse died, i want to resurrect it, i have this here industrial vivarium full of 10,001 live mice, how do i use them'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see also hilbert's 10th.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, FUCKGOATS www is getting regular hits from places such as honduras, panama, etc. via search-engine referrer. and i am beginning to suspect that these folx were looking for material concerning the fucking of ordinary goats.
asciilifeform: i can only imagine their disappointment.
shinohai: top kek asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's exactly that, restated to discourage googling. the point being that it is difficult to correctly set the limits of recursion's utility intuitively
mircea_popescu: ie, that it ~feels~ like the problem should have a recursive solution.
asciilifeform: hilbert's 10th met disappointing end long enough ago that nobody needs to google
asciilifeform: but yes, as a student it also 'felt like must have recursive solution'.
asciilifeform: fwiw.
mircea_popescu: (it was proven sometime recently omdeed diophantine sets is ~ recursively ennumerable sets, making this a semidecidable problem)
asciilifeform: that being said, there are good methods for certain special cases, if mircea_popescu's diophantines are of a particular ~kind~ i might be able to hit up my dead trees for an algo.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the whole thing was "extension of discussion of basic logic to set theory for the eager minds"
asciilifeform: somehow i was certain this was provoked by some alchemical problem in eulora
mircea_popescu: nah, it's just to my mind the next logical step after wtf are null sets anyway.
asciilifeform: recall that you can express turing tape as diophantine eq.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: so if you had a generic pill...
asciilifeform: ergo none.
mircea_popescu: the general point being, that the mind is not particularly adept to ~counting sets~ (including and especially in the sense of "Evaluating complexity") which is why it's very easy for it to misjudge the reach and power of recursive methods.
asciilifeform: mind is a slippery thing. what curious boy was not convinced that he was 'this-close' to elementary proof of fermat's.
asciilifeform: or similar unicorn.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: anyway, practice of programming, especially in a reasonably clean environment, possesses one of a notion of recursion that is then a fertile ground for mathematical scamming.
asciilifeform: incidentally, since (to borrow the lament of turing's school headmaster) 'the room already stinks of mathematics', i'll share a tidbit that i promised folx some half year ago and promptly forgot:
mircea_popescu: the diophantine approach above + the "transfinite induction" / von neumann set are pretty much the scylla and charybdis of this sea.
asciilifeform: picture the following 1-dimensional automaton, that eats bitstring in sets of 2bits, and : '10' -> 'tape step left' ; '01' -> 'tape step right' ; '11' -> invert bit at current square; '00' -> terminate.
asciilifeform: it is immediately obvious that this (nonturingcomplete) automaton can be used to 'write' any integer
asciilifeform: however it is also impossible to know in less time than O(N) ~which~ integer
asciilifeform: this is the ideal rsa padding scheme that folx asked for.
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: i will give one elementary algo for using this, here, but there are others.
mircea_popescu: so wait, the plan is a) make integer ; b) convert to automaton tape ; c) use that tape as padding ?
asciilifeform: take the bitstring to be 'padded' (that is, mixed with entropy in such a way that it destroys enemy's ability to know any part of the structure of a plaintext inside ciphertext.)
asciilifeform: then you produce some sequence of random moves for this machine, nondestructively (recall, all operations are invertible) waltzing over it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform would this be better if tape were circular and of size to match our blocks ?
asciilifeform: then you append a sequence of ops , e.g., '10a10b10c10d.....' for the desired a,b,c,d... that flips the mutilated bits to the desired final state.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the tape size cannot be known to decoder in advance
asciilifeform: or he gets knowledge he is not supposed to have.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
asciilifeform: (the output tape size, that is. he of course knows the input tape size.)
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 913.77, vol: 16658.65410701 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 894.999, vol: 11044.32694 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 915.3, vol: 25751.76340946 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 943.5888, vol: 3223688.07100000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 918.0, vol: 4157.60534408 | Volume-weighted last average: 943.019435087
asciilifeform: let's take a ~terrible~ padding scheme just to show to n00bz what this whole matter is about.
mircea_popescu: if the message is n long, does the pad-machine tape need to be n^2 ?
asciilifeform: say i want to encipher (dun matter with what) a string, 'To: mircea_popescu Subj: thermonuke launch codes ...'
asciilifeform: and enemy knows that i always begin letter with 'To:'
asciilifeform: so one ~horrid~ padding algo would be to get a bitstring from my rng, xor the message to it, then send a message of 2x length of original consisting of: [the bitstring from rng][the result of the xor]
asciilifeform: this is superficially structure-destroying , either one of the two halves could literally be ANY bitstring of that length
asciilifeform: BUT enemy knows that plaintext(first_half[0]) ^ plaintext(second_half[0]) == 'T'
asciilifeform: which is nogood.
asciilifeform: we did not destroy the structure, only made a (slightly) more complicated one.
asciilifeform: [end of n00bz segment]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it can in principle be as short as 3n
asciilifeform: as example,
mircea_popescu: but the space gets pretty narrow. 3n, you shoot n^(1/2) messages you're suddenly losing
asciilifeform: 100101 turns into 111010111010101100.
asciilifeform: which of course you don't want, it is quite obvious that there is no entropy in there if it only got 3x longer.
asciilifeform: (the theoretical lower limit.)
mircea_popescu: this definitely bears some thinking.
asciilifeform: the useful envelope of operation comes when you have at least ~16x the bottom limit.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i can only imagine their disappointment. << lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me ask you this : suppose the tape is byte-sized, and the 8 bits are as follows : 2 bits x movement ; 2 bits y movement ; 2 bits z movement ; stop and flip bits for a total of 8. the tape is now a space.
mircea_popescu: is this worse or better ?
asciilifeform: very similar, and actually i began with that variant.
asciilifeform: it works out to same thing.
asciilifeform: the problem is that you have to derive a bounding box when you're done and want to turn the playing field into a bitstring for use wherever
mircea_popescu: to my mind the only reason to have 1d is if you're going to try and emulate block cyphers ie make it fixed size.
asciilifeform: and it costs slightly more in 2d
mircea_popescu: otherwise why not space.
asciilifeform: in the end you're trying to end up with a bitstring
mircea_popescu: ah thereis that.
asciilifeform: now i have not proved whether 2d gives you more sensitivity to mis-guessed bit .
asciilifeform: than 1d.
asciilifeform: if it does - then the cost is worth it.
asciilifeform: (recall, you want a maximally fragile string. it is quite the opposite of error-correction codes.)
asciilifeform: that's what 'padding' (terrible misnomer) is. the opposite of errorcode.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what if i use the following scheme : message padded + 60 bytes of padding key + 4 bytes of iteration count. the tape is producing by doing sha recursively on the padding key and its results iteration count times.
asciilifeform: btw i scoured the l0gz in vain for entire hour, looking for where i promised this, and cannot find.
asciilifeform: if anyone remembers - plz post link !!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty much all of the extant schemes resolve to some variant of that. the problem is that ~all~ of them introduce structure
asciilifeform: (and i am leaving aside the fact that the use of sha may well introduce structure.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but that's my question, the above is actually what rsa currently uses.
asciilifeform: 'rsa' per se uses nothing.
mircea_popescu: gpg.
asciilifeform: gpg used the weakest known padding scheme iirc.
mircea_popescu: it seems to me you can ~actuyally implement~ extant padding schemes in this automaton.
asciilifeform: 'pkcs'
mircea_popescu: !~google pkcs #14
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: PKCS - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS>; PKCS 12 - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS_12>; PKCS 11 - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKCS_11>
asciilifeform: existing padding schemes are precisely what i would like to get away from. idea is to introduce maximal uncertainty re the identity or purpose of any particular bit of unknown plaintext, and max fragility.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gpg used PKCS #1 v1.5 (see rfc4880)
asciilifeform: all that does is to append a few random bytes to the payload.
asciilifeform: homeopathy, really.
asciilifeform: OAEP is slightly better from this pov but also gives you https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gcrypt-devel/2011-June/001797.html .
mircea_popescu: the problem is it bloats the message to an incredible size ; which plays poorly with rsa's weakness (slow)
asciilifeform: you can split the message.
asciilifeform: it is only palpably slow if you insist on doing the entire thing in a gargantuan exponentiation.
mircea_popescu: so then you're back to blocks and a round tape.
asciilifeform: not necessarily, you have tape as long as you like and simply rsa it in chunks of (keylen/2)
asciilifeform: btw tape cannot be round unless you carry its size inside the message, which is verboten because that would be STRUCTURE
asciilifeform: alternatively you can fix it permanently, in advance.
mircea_popescu: if your blocks are of known size, then they're of known size.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: this -- works
mircea_popescu: the whole discussion of blocks vs whole thing is all about this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu and others can probably think of some useful and interesting variations on this scheme.
mircea_popescu: and the tendency is to move towards whole thingers, hence eg the keccak preference
asciilifeform: btw anyone who tries to dig in the 'official' literature re: crypto padding will barf his guts out, the subjects consists ~100% of obscurantist crapola by weight.
asciilifeform: most of the 'solutions' do not even vaguely pretend to solve the problem, and in fact expertly avoid to say what the problem even might be.
asciilifeform: it is hilarious to watch, from entomologist's chair.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i have no actual math to show, but intuitively it seems to me the above "take 64 bytes of rng, iterate hash over the first 60 last 4-times and then use that as tape to pad message, then put padded message + 64 bytes in question in rsatron" is practically useful and theoretically strong.
mircea_popescu: other party just pads in reverse.
asciilifeform: what's 'last 4 times'
asciilifeform: i'm trying to write this as actual algo in my head
mircea_popescu: let me do a simple example with very small numbers.
asciilifeform: plz.
mircea_popescu: message you want padded is T. i roll a random number, it comes out 1011101011 10
mircea_popescu: i will now proceed to create a string S += hash(1011101011) three times.
mircea_popescu: i will now use S as a tape for the automaton to be applied to T.
mircea_popescu: this gives me T.p
mircea_popescu: i concatenate T.p with 101110101110 and encrypt it
mircea_popescu: i will now proceed to create a string S += hash(S+1011101011) three times. << i mean.
asciilifeform: but why do you want to constrain the possible tapes thusly
asciilifeform: why make them related to the payload.
mircea_popescu: well, because this way T.p is slightly but not much longer than T.
mircea_popescu: evidently this costs in strength.
mircea_popescu: how much - i know not how to say.
asciilifeform: costs you, under some entirely possible scenarios, all of the strength.
mircea_popescu: give me one ?
asciilifeform: say i discover that sha output is 'heavy' on 1s (in the von neumann coin sense) if the input was a sha output of a sha output of a string containing word 'nuke'. etc
asciilifeform: this cannot be ruled out, because hash -- yes, all of them -- is voodoo.
mircea_popescu: but you don't know how many passes of sha i make.
asciilifeform: but i know that the number of passes is related to the payload.
mircea_popescu: that you know.
asciilifeform: fundamental problem here, is that the operation can be written as an equation
asciilifeform: yes, it will be long, but of fixed length, and i can picture its structure
mircea_popescu: this is true.
asciilifeform: whereas an arbitrary tape is nonalgebraic.
asciilifeform: sorta was whole point of this notion.
mircea_popescu: this is also true. problem with it is that it's so damned long.
asciilifeform: is to take away the algebraic relation.
asciilifeform: that enemy luuuuvvvs so much.
mircea_popescu: ok, let's go at it another insane way. suppose you pad the message by using... the message as the tape.
asciilifeform: that won't even waltz over the whole message
asciilifeform: considering that 1 step of the crank eats 2 bits.
asciilifeform: the added entropy has to be ~genuine~ to do the job.
asciilifeform: as in, it comes from a trng.
mircea_popescu: suppose you actually use the payload itself sqrt(payloadsize) times.
asciilifeform: and yes, you get elongated message. the job imho here is to show precisely how much elongation buys you ~exactly~ what strength.
asciilifeform: as in, the cost.
mircea_popescu: no, we're clear on the part where it's pretty expensive.
mircea_popescu: the thing here however is, that incremental improvement may actually be useful. ie, a ~better~ encryption scheme, even if not ~provably the best~.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all schemes where the transform is of 'payload itself' and 0 entropy, suffer from immediate 'penguin problem', https://blog.filippo.io/content/images/2015/11/Tux_ecb.jpg .
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: as in, if i have a good idea as to what is the plaintext, i can verify my guess.
asciilifeform: you gotta have the actual entropy.
mircea_popescu: let's consider the case where i want to exchange a 1kb letter. i won't actually use 1mb to feed the tape, but i will use 4kb.
mircea_popescu: i now have to a) generate 4kb of entropy (roughly enough for 8 4096bit rsa keys) ; b) complete 16k operations to pad ; c) execute a 5kb rsa exponentiation. so i'm looking at what, about an hour ?
asciilifeform: possibly we no longer bottleneck on entropy gather ?
asciilifeform: sorta was the point of FUCKGOATS.
mircea_popescu: stock rsa makes 8 keys in like 2 hours.
asciilifeform: depends on what.
mircea_popescu: so no, i wasn't counting a) for more than a few mins.
asciilifeform: 4kB is about half a second of goat fuck. 4kb is 1/8 that.
mircea_popescu: i mean 1kB throughout.
asciilifeform: a 4096b exponentiation takes about 10msec on my (dusty, old) box here.
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu's exercise might add up to an entire ~minute~...
mircea_popescu: this is not terribru.
asciilifeform: cheap entropy makes several interesting things possible, this is only 1 of'em.
mircea_popescu: a 5x size penalty for full strength encryption is not inconceivable either.
asciilifeform: the beauty is that you can dial the strength up if you have a great deal of space and a short message .
asciilifeform: sorta like keccak.
mircea_popescu: yes. in principle you can also dial it down.
asciilifeform: aha, the closer you go to the floor (3x length of input) , the lower.
mircea_popescu: if you make the waltzer start from ~the end~ of the message, even sqrt(n) steps improves rsa enough.
asciilifeform: (the fewer possible messages)
asciilifeform: end, start, are topologically same
asciilifeform: (a tape is just as likely to go left as right , if fed from rng )
asciilifeform: btw you probably would want to mechanically ensure that every bit of the input got stepped on at least once.
asciilifeform: (because there is a nonzero probability that the whole thing is left alone, for instance. or large segments thereof, more likely.)
mircea_popescu: doesn't that introduce structure ?
asciilifeform: it introduces length only.
asciilifeform: sorta like 'hang by the neck until dead' spec.
asciilifeform: at any rate it is not a concern if using circular tape.
asciilifeform: there, you are stepping on the input regardless of where you go.
mircea_popescu: you prolly want circular tape the size of message tbh.
asciilifeform: the size of the largest permitted message, yes.
asciilifeform: or rather, 3x+Q of it
asciilifeform: Q being your added strength.
mircea_popescu: there;s a largest permitted message ?!
asciilifeform: you're stuck having such a thing if you have circular tape
asciilifeform: because, again, you cannot say 'hey first 64bits are length'
mircea_popescu: meh.
asciilifeform: nobody keeps you from sending 1,001 messages.
mircea_popescu: meh.
asciilifeform: i will point out that if your privkey is n bits, you are already talking in n/2-sized chunks.
asciilifeform: so now mircea_popescu sees why i wanted a noncircular tape -- then the enemy knows nothing about the ultimate length of the output
mircea_popescu: another problem is the observation that 1011011011 is neutral.
asciilifeform: because it is defined as simply the furthestmost '1' explored.
mircea_popescu: and other strings are also just as neutral.
asciilifeform: what means neutral here
asciilifeform: as in, 0 net effect ?
asciilifeform: it has a net effect in that it a) takes up space between non-'neutral' strings b) if enemy misguesses even 1 bit inside it, it becomes quite non-neutral, and cumulatively
asciilifeform: whole point is to minimize the information conveyed to enemy by knowing about the, e.g., 'To: mircea_popescu' inside; and to maximize the consequences of a misguessed plaintext bit in a cryptoanalysis.
asciilifeform: so, yes, e.g., '1010101001010101' does ~absolutely~ nothing to the waltz tape
asciilifeform: but it takes up space, and if even 1 of the bits gets flipped (misguessed), you get an avalanche of rubbish.
asciilifeform: btw the '00'--> stop thing is unnecessary and harmful, you stop when you run out of feed tape.
mircea_popescu: myeah
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E23ACB45163FCB09E94E5C734E0460A168FA05290C8C9FFA05F92571621F502 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1687...5687 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/92A7E26365A4E78117B70413092A6D862BD142830399C4B355FCEEC0DC1EBDF7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1400...2083 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (217-72-98-119.uni.it. IT)
mircea_popescu: this prolly needs more thinking.
asciilifeform: here is improved scheme : '10' -> 'step left', '01' --> step right, '11' -> flip current and step left; '00' -> flip current and step right.
asciilifeform: this gives you entirely symmetric probabilities of motion in either direction;
asciilifeform: and also entirely symmetric probabilities of flip/nonflip.
mircea_popescu: this is an improvement.
asciilifeform: say that the first bit of every tape pair means 'left or right', and the second 'flip or noflip.'
asciilifeform: you can generalize for n-dimensions, as mircea_popescu suggested earlier, similarly.
mircea_popescu: possibly 2d would be useful because eats full byte
asciilifeform: 1d also eats full byte, puts 4 ops in it.
asciilifeform: but i presently have nfi which one wins.
asciilifeform: seems like one could do a formal , sane proof.
asciilifeform: 'This has been a production of Rubbish From asciilifeform's Desk! No actual mathematicians were harmed...'
asciilifeform: i'ma bbl, off to play with pet.
mircea_popescu: http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/223991/%E2%80%98an-honest-conversation-is-scarier-than-sex%E2%80%99-for-millenials << in other lulz.
BingoBoingo: Well, they don't know radical honesty is best served nekkid
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0E23ACB45163FCB09E94E5C734E0460A168FA05290C8C9FFA05F92571621F502 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1554...9267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown DE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/92A7E26365A4E78117B70413092A6D862BD142830399C4B355FCEEC0DC1EBDF7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1386...2553 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (217-72-98-119.uni.it. IT)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590078 << holy FUCK the ugly beast☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 02:18 mircea_popescu: http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/223991/%E2%80%98an-honest-conversation-is-scarier-than-sex%E2%80%99-for-millenials << in other lulz.
mircea_popescu: heh
phf: ^ http://data.whicdn.com/images/4863711/large.jpg
mircea_popescu: if only.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FD162B31879C672C96D73E23BAB02B76FF039BA477742ACF9809A289FE396DFD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1653...6469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown NL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2603E5793CB991AA1E823AA9593E4B505D1B151FCA4968D98F5AB1A2C19EA342 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1619...1397 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lvps62-112-143-163.my-maxxserver.de. DE)
shinohai: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0ckjTgXEAQ03HX.jpg
shinohai: ^ heh cock
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about it, the walker scheme doesn't seem too great. the theoretical objection is that it ~does~ introduce structure, through the convention that the walker moves from where it last moved. in practice though, run a few simulations over a 16bit message which you can then print as a 256x256 bitmap. your walker makes anthills basically.
mircea_popescu: pretty wasteful use of entropy.
mircea_popescu: ajhajajaja roger ver owns bitcoins ?
mircea_popescu: good thing there's reddit. now that yahoo "finance" closed the public boards, where'd all the scum go.
shinohai would love to see Ver successfully do Unlimited fork, lose all BTC on phorked side
mircea_popescu: eh, guy last had any btc cca 2014.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes lol that leclerc dude is visiting your blog on a weekly basis ? 2, 9, then nobody gave a shit so he skipped 16 and i guess 23, we see him on the 30th ?
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : http://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2015/08/24/meet-the-millennials-crowdfunding-their-college-tuition no longer exists. do you suppose this is because a) it turned out that no idiot millenials tried this or b) because the scamsites pretending to be offering a service involved complained to the usg dept of scamsites which then passed a hitler note to the usg dept of scamnews ?
mircea_popescu: "we have always been at war with fake news such as any item that is politically inconvenient today."
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590091 << didja try it? and, importantly, was it with a physical trng?? because noshit , ~prng~ will structurize ...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 14:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about it, the walker scheme doesn't seem too great. the theoretical objection is that it ~does~ introduce structure, through the convention that the walker moves from where it last moved. in practice though, run a few simulations over a 16bit message which you can then print as a 256x256 bitmap. your walker makes anthills basically.
mircea_popescu: yes. a point n distance from origin has more chances of being walked over than a point 2n distance from origin by a factor of about 1.4
asciilifeform: you naturally gotta run long enough for p(walked all many times) to ~= 1
mircea_popescu: this resolves the part where "all have been walked" though not the part where there's structure intrinsic in the method.
mircea_popescu: moreover, to be 99% sure 100% of 64kb were walked, you need millions of steps.
asciilifeform: that, you do, i warned.
mircea_popescu: specifically 256kb does not even remotely promise for 64kb to be walked. you get a third untouched more than half the time.
asciilifeform: i estimated a 16 fold margin.
mircea_popescu: it was 3 fold yest.
asciilifeform: noooo
mircea_popescu: the correct margin is N^2
asciilifeform: 3x was ~minimal inescapable bloat with no entropy~
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589914 << there☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 01:15 asciilifeform: the useful envelope of operation comes when you have at least ~16x the bottom limit.
asciilifeform: but that was anally calculated. i have not tried with trng yet.
asciilifeform: and yes, the cost is high. but i remain unconvinced that a better method exists.
asciilifeform: i suspect that one could even prove that it cannot.
mircea_popescu: "better" is not a mathematical concept.
mircea_popescu: so no, one couldn't prove such.
asciilifeform: there is a specific job involved
asciilifeform: that is quantifiable
asciilifeform: that was actually where i stopped last time. to properly and rigorously define the problem
asciilifeform: informally stated , it is 'spread out k bits over j bits, j>k, such that the bitness of k that can be learned from knowing any 1 bit of j is minimized, and such that knowledge of a
asciilifeform: all but one bit of j,
asciilifeform: of k rather
asciilifeform: gives NO knowledge of j.'
asciilifeform: rivest wss afaik the first to ask for this. but he and afaik everybody since him, used hashes.
asciilifeform: *was
asciilifeform: i suspect that a good bit of crypto research was lobotomized by historic rng poverty.
asciilifeform: (and not merely by the obvious lobotomist)
mircea_popescu: this may well be true yes.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590098 << btw it is apparently back☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 14:39 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : http://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliesportelli/2015/08/24/meet-the-millennials-crowdfunding-their-college-tuition no longer exists. do you suppose this is because a) it turned out that no idiot millenials tried this or b) because the scamsites pretending to be offering a service involved complained to the usg dept of scamsites which then passed a hitler note to the usg dept of scamnews ?
asciilifeform: (link -- loads, has a turd by same title and stock photos of 'collegiate' crapolade, i did not read further )
mircea_popescu: but yes, the statement is correct. to restate : 1. padding is defined as a function F (x, y) with x, y and F ∈ N such that 2. F is defined for all (x, y) pairs and that 3. given any set of boolean functions Ki(x) along with their values no Kj(y) can be constructed so their values are known besides K0(y) = true for K0(a) = 1 if a=y and 0 if a!=y and 4. given any set of boolean functions Ki(y) along with their values no Kj(x)
mircea_popescu: can be constructed so their values are known besides K0(x) = true for K0(a) = 1 if a=x and 0 if a!=x.
mircea_popescu: importantly - there is no need for the payload and the padding to be distinguishable.
mircea_popescu: so the statement should be symmetrical.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's nice, it 404'd before!
asciilifeform: it is an absolute fail for payload and padding to live in separate and known-to-enemy bitfields, yes
mircea_popescu: more than that : there can't be conceptual difference between number x and number y.
mircea_popescu: the padding pads the message just as the message pads the padding.
asciilifeform: aha
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/who-pops-the-largest-pop/ << Trilema - Who pops the largest pop ?
asciilifeform: also betcha this problem could be reduced to shannon's noisy channel.
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: (it also has entirely separate component that is rivest's 'all or nothing transform')
asciilifeform: i.e. problem is really two problems.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm entirely not up to speed to this, but there actually exists this field in math, of "boolean function sets"
mircea_popescu: they more or less udnerstand they're a formalisation of what the more numerate philosophers call the theory of knowledge.
mircea_popescu: (the above boolean function K is an evident extension of the dericlet function ftr)
mircea_popescu: dirichlet*
mircea_popescu: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589829 < I was in a coffee shop and it cut me from IRC, like most wifi networks around here do.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 00:21 asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel_p ... has joined #trilema ... * gabriel_laddel_p has quit (Client Quit) << d00d lost his SECOND key, lemme guess..?
gabriel_laddel: That being said, I'm trying to decrypt my OTP and "gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available".
gabriel_laddel: Re-created (some of) dired in CL last night, perhaps I accidentally deleted it...
gabriel_laddel: sigh
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1589832 < blood is in the water, it's fun!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 00:23 asciilifeform: i dun even want to picture how the d00d lives.
mircea_popescu: devwork must be pretty hectic with all this accidental deleting.
gabriel_laddel: Something like that - was hacking out the gesture :control-meta-click in CLIM and was clicking around a lot with it bound to COM-DELETE-FILE
gabriel_laddel: for some reason this required a restart of the application, which _should not be a thing_ in cl.
asciilifeform: at least it wasn't COM-LAUNCH-ROCKETS..
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: how's the hardware biz?
mircea_popescu: http://oglaf.com/obituator/
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I have talentless thiel fellows trying to lowball me at the moment, but expect that they'll pay up soon enough.
gabriel_laddel: As I said: blood is in the water - it's fun.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FD162B31879C672C96D73E23BAB02B76FF039BA477742ACF9809A289FE396DFD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1459...6859 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown NL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2603E5793CB991AA1E823AA9593E4B505D1B151FCA4968D98F5AB1A2C19EA342 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...5107 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lvps62-112-143-163.my-maxxserver.de. DE)
shinohai: lol @ oglaf
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: are there glassblowing robots for custom labware yet?
mircea_popescu is curious if the forum will prefer gabriel_laddel parked in sv start-up over gabriel_laddel parked in park.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: I was working for a startup a while ago - but they released toxic fumes into the air without a fume hood, so I quit.
mircea_popescu: you mean literally ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: what's on your mind?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: yes.
gabriel_laddel: I don't know what it is with the people here, but they're all fucking idiots.
mircea_popescu: wow check that out, evne in cali
gabriel_laddel: I left out the key part of that story - they released the fumes indoors, in a building the offices they were occupying.
gabriel_laddel: *in a building connected to
mircea_popescu: what fumes ?
gabriel_laddel: Am not sure. Saw the synth running with broken fume hood, a cracked window and gtfo.
mircea_popescu: what, like a peptide synth ?
mircea_popescu: good lord, carcinogenics etc are quite possible.
gabriel_laddel: I did sign an NDA, so I'm not going to get into the details of what exactly we were cooking. But yes, it was most certainly toxic.
mircea_popescu: nuts.
gabriel_laddel: speaking of nuts, it appears I somehow managed to delete my private key, registering a new one I suppose. And backing it up this time.
gabriel_laddel: common lisp rsa when
gabriel_laddel: wasn't there a scheme implementation dropped into the logs a long time ago?
gabriel_laddel: should be a google groups link
gabriel_laddel: I had it on a (now dead) harddrive 1.5+ years ago iirc.
asciilifeform: adlai has one
asciilifeform not tried
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590185 << acetonitrile then☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 16:51 mircea_popescu: what, like a peptide synth ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590173 << how often do you need custom glass, gabriel_laddel ??☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 16:40 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: are there glassblowing robots for custom labware yet?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: thus far, never. but it sounds like a fun thing to automate if no one has done it already
gabriel_laddel: along with: machine learning optimized, mechanically articlulated "smartphone" autodialer
asciilifeform: i suspect that chemists of old days used a great bit more custom glass than today not only because borosilicate was not a thing (and so, easier to melt) but also because their ground joints sucked
asciilifeform: whereas modern joints are quite reasonably tight
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: so generally you can make your custom whatever, out of standard parts.
gabriel_laddel: ic
asciilifeform: (where did PeterL go... he might have something to say to this.)
gabriel_laddel: to complete the autodialer picture: the latest way american corps try to do "IP protection" is to only let you access data from one phone. Writing a program to drive stylus + camera that digs through arbitrary apps and sucks all the information out of them using OCR would be a lot of fun
gabriel_laddel: all the pharmacy techs right now are running these "apps", which operate as a database interface to all the "copyright blah blah blah protected" pharama data
mircea_popescu: the joint objection is quite solid.
mircea_popescu: most resilient use of self-blown glass was because "it's the only way to get a proper seal"
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel_p
deedbot: gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
gabriel_laddel_p: seems I didn't delete new key, but rather forgot to change my nick to gabriel_laddel_p
gabriel_laddel_p: duh
gabriel_laddel_p: anyways, can and did up self.
gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588427 < what is wrong with c2mop?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 17:58 asciilifeform: common lisp committee was hobbled by babelism, had to stuff in the redundant idiocies, and never got to, say, actually developing streams properly (why the fuck are we stuck with hacks like gray streams? and where is the commonlisp with ~working~ mop ? etc)
asciilifeform: how about that it isn't in the standard ?
asciilifeform: and that it is a mile of duct tape.
mircea_popescu: wd eh.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590209 << this sounds like a monumentally retarded idea. enemy will immediately see that you are flipping through the crapola, and 'snowden detection' is the fashionable 'must have!111' corporate idiocy. pull the NAND flash like a real man.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 17:00 gabriel_laddel: to complete the autodialer picture: the latest way american corps try to do "IP protection" is to only let you access data from one phone. Writing a program to drive stylus + camera that digs through arbitrary apps and sucks all the information out of them using OCR would be a lot of fun
asciilifeform: or at the very least properly pwn the pnoje, it isn't as if this were especially arduous.
mircea_popescu: snowden detection eh.
asciilifeform: or whatever to call the nonsense where 'oh noez, mr.slave is flipping pages TOO FAST'
asciilifeform: i dug up, last year, an inqtel-funded thing where... camera watches, it claims, for eyes of evil snowgnomes peeking at screen, etc.
asciilifeform: it is like rerun of 1990s drm idiocy
asciilifeform: every 'security software co' in usa wants in.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590218 << i cannot resist going back to this and giving it another whack of the spiked club. this variant definition of 'works', whereby things such as clim supposedly 'work', how would folks such as gabriel_laddel like if their cpu worked like this ? on and off, when weather is just right, and randomly melts on odd-numbered thursdays, and 'oh dontcha know you gotta jiggle the handle', and 'wtf did☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 17:27 gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588427 < what is wrong with c2mop?
asciilifeform: you really expect real time response, what are you , a martian' or, or, or
asciilifeform: this 'works' is a pestilence and is largely why clueful greybeards from the meat world , e.g., mircea_popescu , unzip and piss on programmers simply for sport
asciilifeform: dun like drinking piss? then stop being known for 'travail arabe' .
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally that nonsense is only superficially related to snowden. in practice it is an extension of the "artificial intelligence" used in "spam detection", especially as the doomed but desperate attempt at websites to fight the republican bots.
mircea_popescu: the other expansion of that is of course the whole "mechanical fakenews detection"
mircea_popescu: basically, the ~one hope of the imperial technologistic church of some sort of practical results is a peculiar form of ai. they're doubling down on it exactly in the manner usg doubled down on "alternative fuels".
mircea_popescu: they will suffer the same fate, too, but until he is killed the death convict still lives like any other.
asciilifeform: the mechanical politruk, which doesn't 'quis custodiet ipsos custodes?', and cannot be bribed, bought, needs 0 rest, can really 'plug into all of the telescreens at one time in the ministry of luvvvv', etc.
asciilifeform: their ancient dream, yes.
mircea_popescu: quite an ancient dream yes
asciilifeform: hence ethertardium etc.
mircea_popescu: the applications to eg banking are beyond lulzy. but they're willing to destroy the currency (currency ? what currency ? dollars don't pay nothing, it's notes from hitler if you want anything done) to try and prop it up because outside of usg.ai there's nothing
asciilifeform: the real megabux are, apparently, not even in 'data leakage prevention', as the earlier crackpottery is known, but in the yet (afaik) nameless ~detection of the turned~
asciilifeform: that is, automated probing for sudden curiosity, or evidence of ideological unreliability of whatever origin.
mircea_popescu: it's in the more general form "detection of edges". they want to identify cars, and go winning strategies, and people who don't like them and everything else.
mircea_popescu: and they expect to do it by pouring lots of gb in very trivial neural/expert systems.
asciilifeform: quite likely there is an eight-figure golden toilet contract right at this very moment to attempt to roster, e.g., ts clearance holders who show symptoms of having used bitcoin. and the like.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: some comments mp made here last year sent some cold shivers.
asciilifeform: (why not house'em in шарашкаs and be done with it, one might ask)
mircea_popescu: structural difference, alf.
mircea_popescu: "why would girl go to all thetrouble of pretending on facebook when she could just walk up to every guy in sight and go "hey, wanna feel my tits ?"
mircea_popescu: the criterion is not "optimal efficiency", but "optimal efficiency in the paradigm space".
mircea_popescu: they're... not that kind of girl.
asciilifeform: afaik the structural diff is that usa traditionally relied on 'carrots' for the seekrit folx, more than 'sticks'
asciilifeform: but the carrots begin to run out.
mircea_popescu: historical accident be what it may, it can't really be said it constitutes a proper cause.
mircea_popescu: ie, it is because of this, but not for this reason.
mircea_popescu: the funny thing is that the approach is trivially defeated in practice. they're relying on a ~fixed~, unchanging enemy. which naivite in the manner of 3yos and their modelling of environment geometries was previously touched upon.
mircea_popescu: but it's why the two week war isn't done after thirteen.
asciilifeform: usg has become such a loathesome and monstrous thing, that there is no fixed set of 'enemy', every earthworm in every step of ground it steps on, becomes enemy
mircea_popescu: anyway, the fate of the socialist empire in its eternal historical cyclicity is fascinating. so - nazis put everything on large tanks ; and failed. but then soviets put everything on a particular notion of industrialization (steel-per-capita industrialization, so to speak) and... failed. so the one socialist empire left standing is putting it all on "ai". and...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i recall this being said here years ago aha.
mircea_popescu: it was also said cca 1800s, it read like "si de-aceea tot ce misca-n tara asta, riul, ramul imi e prieten numai mie, iara tie - dusman ti-este."
mircea_popescu: it's what "totalitarian" means, after all - everyone is the enemy.
asciilifeform: dusman!! i had nfi that this persian word, known to half the planet, made it as west as ro
mircea_popescu: :)
mircea_popescu: it's not even some obscure poetic license. basic vocabulary.
asciilifeform: well yes
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suspect on the face, "the difference between stupid 5k cell brains and smart 5k cell brains is in the yottabytes they looked at" is almost persuasive.
mircea_popescu: it certainly is MADE to be persuasive for the sort of minds coming out of ivy league "colleges"
mircea_popescu: which is why we could properly qualify this complex as a memetic virus. it infects, and the host can feel it's infected, but can't prevent the infection.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-26#1386298 << oblig☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-01-26 17:20 ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
asciilifeform: which, incidentally, i suspect is why alphago has not been trotted again.
asciilifeform: *trotted out
mircea_popescu: well in this model man uses trillions of neurons to process many GBps. what's their tired flatworm brain to do with all of it ? http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ is prolly de rigueur.
asciilifeform: gotta teach the 'grind student' again, by rote, the rote responses to the counterattacks actual people almost immediately came up with.
asciilifeform: so that it can look like 'ai'.
mircea_popescu: (ftr, the "100bn neurons" figure IS MISTAKEN. yes at any point you slice a brain you find something like that ; but neurons also die - yet their death is not automatically in vain now is it!)
asciilifeform: we already saw this movie before, with 'deep blue'
mircea_popescu: (and "death" here means a rather complex thing.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had thread about musculature of pan troglodytes, where many fewer cells in the muscle than a man's, but he can tear the man in half. so even for an ordinary mechanical 'strength', counting mass is nonsense.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: nobody thinks of weighing, e.g., 386 vs pentium to learn which one bangs moar for the buck
mircea_popescu: im sure some arabs did it.
asciilifeform: or let's why not weigh james watt's steam engine vs modern diesel and say same thing.
asciilifeform: moar!
mircea_popescu: nevertheless - the argument as to neuron count is not directly mass ; it is parts. one DOES compare transistor counts.
asciilifeform: even then
mircea_popescu: sure.
asciilifeform: rather like comparing 'lines of code'
asciilifeform: (winblowz - wins!1!! forever!!1)
mircea_popescu: more like comparing "ast nodes". not the best and not the worst measure of complexity.
asciilifeform: they are, to borrow from dijkstra, 'cost, not revenue, no matter how many people insist on writing them down on the wrong side of the ledger'
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: complexity -- is a cost. that it sometimes also brings something in return, is incidental.
mircea_popescu: the notion that loc = revenue is not unlike the notion that fucking is something you wanna do. it's work, let the girl work for it!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'loc == revenue' is simply this century's version of chinese/su 'moar steel, revenue!'
asciilifeform: догоним и перегоним! (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: see also, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-24#641281 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-04-24 22:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Мы Америку догнали. По надоям молока, А по мясу мы отстали: Хуй сломался у быка.'
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit earlier thread, i found an old piece by shoup that utterly demolishes the oaep nonsense. (unfortunately pdfized, and not convertible meaningfully.)
asciilifeform: in exactly the way i expected it would fall down on serious examination
mircea_popescu: prolly worth hand-translating
mircea_popescu: so you can be you know, downvoted on hacker fake news.
asciilifeform: (proved that there necessarily exists a hash boojum , for any given scheme that includes any hash of whatever kind, that makes the algo fall down.)
asciilifeform: y'know, sappers in popular imagination (and sometimes in life) actually clear mines, but just as often simply put little flat into the earth.
asciilifeform: 'here -- mines.'
asciilifeform: so here it is. flag.
asciilifeform: *flag into
asciilifeform: this is discussed publicly even less often than the pseudoscientific nonsense of block and stream ciphers, but: hashes are necessarily voodoo. elementarily, by counting argument (input:output sets are not 1:1).
asciilifeform: and the hashes popularly in use are optimized for strictly one thing -- (perceived!) collision resistance
asciilifeform: and certainly not for other, orthogonal (or even, possibly, contradictory!) properties such as non-leakage and non-structurization
asciilifeform: this came up in the rng whitening thread, but bears mentioning now and again
asciilifeform: (for instance, it may well be the case that, e.g., sha2, or keccak, leak, say, the parity of the incoming bitstring into the hash. or some other property.)
asciilifeform: and this would not count against their collision resistance, which was the only property actually asked for by the designer.
asciilifeform: (whether 'collision resistance' of any hash is a matter of demonstrable physical reality, or of imagination, is wholly separate subject)
asciilifeform: the rifle MAY make an acceptable boar oar. but if it does, it will be purely by accident.
asciilifeform: *boat oar
asciilifeform bbl.
hanbot: pf4x99nJYL
hanbot: oh for fuck's sake.
shinohai writes down hanbot 's Eulora password
trinque: o lawdy
shinohai: >.>
hanbot: lol. juuuust my pw for the coffee cache.
hanbot: iirc second time i've done it, too. kbds everywhere, i guess i'ma install some fucktard blinkenlicten.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: p funny
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590268 << funnily enough, in .lt there is that word, and it means something like "illegal taxi driver" (yes precisely that level of specificity). like microvans in the balkans etc. i have nfi how this happened :D☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 18:01 asciilifeform: dusman!! i had nfi that this persian word, known to half the planet, made it as west as ro
ben_vulpes: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/fancy-bear-hack-of-ukrainian-artillery-fighters-shows-future-of-war << android apps distributed over forums is some great indicator of how the world works
shinohai: touche
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone saw "when i want to whistle, i whistle" ?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: pls to qntra apptillery lulz?
BingoBoingo did not saw that
mircea_popescu: very real rendition of ro prison system
BingoBoingo just has saws on the mind. Tis the season.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/24/standing-in-line-like-overdressed-cattle/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Standing in line like overdressed cattle.
Framedragger: http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ << was planning to go to sleep easily and wake up with light christmas spirit. dreams will now be filled with automata
mircea_popescu: aw!
Framedragger: while rereading old logs, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-21#572003 << hehehe :)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-03-21 14:23 mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the real reason you want a client is that you can then install otr, which is a cryptographically secure plugin allowing you to have private conversations safe from any snoops. and that is good quality safety, not the sort of crud normally peddled.
Framedragger: s/rereading/reading/
mircea_popescu: Framedragger should be noted that i was a lot more optimistic about open source in 2014.
Framedragger: certainly noted! assumed as much :) includes increased pessimism for funding OS projects (such as openbsd) etc i guess...
mircea_popescu: anyway, the principle espoused is sound - you want a client because you want to control the software ; the application involved however who knows,.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger the problem isn't "founding os projects" but quite orthogonal to that : ustards have a significant mental problem whereby they imagine they will separate funding and activity. the existence of a so called "foundation" is the usual macula of this sort of idiocy, much like chancre is the mark of syphilis.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590325 << your password is now TMSR Safe(tm) certified. we have analyzed your password using stochastic gradient reduction methods(tm) that have determined that your password is safe from hackers. we recommend changing your existing passwords that are not TMSR Safe(tm) to your new TMSR Safe(tm) password. Ask our representative about helpful tips: how to change your Pretty Good Privacy password to TMSR☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-24 19:48 hanbot: pf4x99nJYL
phf: Safe(tm) password.
ben_vulpes: nice
mircea_popescu: you should prolly unrate phf nao
Framedragger: !~bash 5
jhvh1: Last 5 lines bashed and pending publication
hanbot: hahaha TMSR Safe & catfacts, xmas is served!
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: perhaps
ben_vulpes: 'tis a fertile topic.
mircea_popescu: speaking of fertile topics, seeing how it's christmas and all, let us revisit http://trilema.com/2015/quantum-mechanics-today-a-machine-to-turn-penis-projectile-vibration-into-eyelash-flutter/
mats: http://www.geekwire.com/2016/oculus-engineering-leader-arrested-near-seattle-charged-soliciting-sex-cop-posing-15-year-old-girl lul
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: i wonder if sv investors carry 15yo cop insurance for their lead engineers by now.
mats: oculus is literally developed by pedo jews at Facebook
mats: 10/10 qntra headline
mircea_popescu: wouldn't it be called speculum rift if this were true ?
mats: indeed
phf: "Upon his arrest, Katz told the officer that he was there to rescue the girl, and should have first called police, according to charging documents."
Framedragger: (last thing i've read before going to sleep is how a kid high on ganja used a bazooka: https://www.reddit.com/r/trees/comments/25a19p/welp_i_did_something_terrible_in_cambodia_in_a/ ahem. but kinda funny)
mircea_popescu: self-reported folklore may have a heavy fictitious tinge.
Framedragger: but sometimes one may indulge and do the whole suspension of disbelief thing :) but yes, quite, hm