assbot: Logged on 10-03-2016 15:47:10; asciilifeform: surrender is not a strategy.
ben_vulpes: make life easy on the miners? why bother.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like "here's a list of my deepest unrelated fears" ?
☟︎ assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1XtSE3K )
trinque: asciilifeform: what's the proper way to apply the shiva vpatches with v?
trinque has discovered that it is not - apparently - throwing them in the patches dir, seals in seals, and pulling the trigger
trinque: I can press up to asciilifeform_tx-orphanage_amputation.vpatch
mircea_popescu: trinque iirc it was a little ambiguous because bot ha standalone and a bitcoin-derived shiva set
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ok but i don't get what you're saying here.
mircea_popescu: trinque iirc the bitcoin-derived one had two parts named 1 and 2 which you both need
☟︎ trinque: ah in place of tinyscheme genesis I would wager
trinque: nope, this seems to have to do with press order; the dynload.h in question in the second dpaste is present in the tinyscheme genesis
adlai hasn't even started yet!
adlai: rules were made to be broken, buttons elbowed, and backs broken later.
☟︎ adlai: mircea_popescu: laughing at my joke!? (nah, probably just at /me.)
adlai wonders about his own predicament; people keep telling him to blog about it, but, as the latin teacher said when asked why he gave up correcting people's mispronounciation of his name: "I hate people"
trinque: asciilifeform: you may be the most impossible man I've ever encountered.
trinque: "WHY MUST I LIFT ALL THIS MYSELF?!?!11!"
trinque: "EVERYONE STOP TRYING TO DO THINGS!"
trinque: or rather, must you bring this leak in your head into everything?
phf: trinque: it's not about "not doing things", pressing tinyscheme genesis is just not the right way to get shiva
☟︎ phf: trinque: as per that rant only things needing pressing are asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2, asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 and asciilifeform_shiva_fix_flag_bug
☟︎ gribble: Current Blocks: 402861 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 338 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 43 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
trinque: phf: you see how your sentences have... content ?
adlai: mircea_popescu: i found it and submitted a second comment, but both seem to have caught in the lo-pass
adlai: my bad, the first has percolated through... maybe it's just all the tube-clogging
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 01:28:59; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like "here's a list of my deepest unrelated fears" ?
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 01:55:56; mircea_popescu: trinque iirc the bitcoin-derived one had two parts named 1 and 2 which you both need
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 00:38:10; asciilifeform: please throw out the old crud.
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 02:18:59; adlai: rules were made to be broken, buttons elbowed, and backs broken later.
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 02:53:58; phf: trinque: it's not about "not doing things", pressing tinyscheme genesis is just not the right way to get shiva
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 02:56:58; phf: trinque: as per that rant only things needing pressing are asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2, asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 and asciilifeform_shiva_fix_flag_bug
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 23:05:37; BingoBoingo: I suspect it will have to graduate from a pogo to an "edgerouter lite" sometime in the next few months.
phf: asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?
☟︎ phf: i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted
☟︎ assbot: Amazon.com: The Tunnels of Cu Chi: A Harrowing Account of America's Tunnel Rats in the Underground Battlefields of Vietnam (9780891418696): Tom Mangold: Books ... (
http://bit.ly/1pKstuP )
phf: it has a very pro-american/anti-communist bias (and there's a very surprising, complete lack of any SU mentions), but full of fascinating stories of vc tunnel based warfare
phf: it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics
☟︎ phf: asciilifeform: were you starting with stage3 or earlier?
adlai: ;;later tell trinque deedbot- seems to have choked again
adlai fantasizes that his 'jewish wit' was sharp enough to bridge the silicon sarchasm
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 23:10:27; mircea_popescu: o i forgot the jews, did i. THREE KINDS.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00042051 = 21.5301 BTC [-]
adlai: what's the custom for voicing freenode webchat nobodies? (at least replying with "who may you be" gets them to shut up.)
adlai: sorry massiro, should I have said "fix your connection"?
adlai: massiro: (and all future !up-please-ers): introduce yourself politely via pm, or ask somebody else.
massiro: I wanted to share info about the payout problem with Jeb-Bush-Nomination.
assbot: Logged on 05-01-2016 05:55:53; massiro: The above site says the fee is 0.001 BTC so I think it is more than enough. Is this related to low/high S value problem?
massiro: I'm sad to hear the Jeb Bush payout accident...
massiro: I think it has something to do with the release of Core-0.12 (23rd February 2016).
massiro: And the spam attack revealed the problem.
massiro: First of all, Core-0.12 stops 0-fee tx relaying during spam attacks.
massiro: Secondly, Core-0.12 abolished mining 0-fee txes by default.
massiro: Thank you BingoBoingo for giving me a voice!
massiro: To adlai's asking, I'm an occasional bettor at bbet. Sorry to omit introducing about myself.
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 04:15:31; phf: asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 04:16:51; phf: i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433659 << i dunno why you think this odd. as far as my experience goes, 100% of english language literature (long before the days orwell quit and his naive, square jawed colonial subjects took over the pretense of empire) is exactly this "here are our assumptions, which clearly paint us as utterly and hopelessly stupid, let's lampshade it and carry on". i don't think by n
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 04:25:15; phf: it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics
mircea_popescu: ow english speaker even realises there's a disconnect between what the words mean and what his actions do.
mircea_popescu: which, ungenerously enough, seems just a step away from the breakdown specific to shitholes like argentina, where people altogether don't even comprehend words are in any sense meaningful, above and beyond the chirping captive populations of chickens do to reassure each other.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: massiro it's an interesting theory, apart from the fact that nobody uses core in production, or has for many years now.
mircea_popescu: yes, various derps on poorly connected boxes still play with it. this is about as relevant to the discussion as considering what machines aspiring webcomic designers use when discussing pixar or something.
mircea_popescu: might as well say "it's because pogos", which would be equally flattering just in a different direction and otherwise equally afield.
thestringpuller: lol. p. sure 90% of current pixar staff at one point were aspiring webcomic designers...
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yes, but they don't come with their own home fucking computers.
mircea_popescu: nobody goes "i'm going to hire joe, he's kinda meh but he has a kickass workstation!".
mircea_popescu: in fact, the difference between THAT approach and what actually happens is exactly the difference between infantile and adult life.
mircea_popescu: in roadtrip they go "we gotta take the weirdo - he has a car".
mircea_popescu: i mean yes, it's true that most of the firemen are kids that played with fire trucks. it is however quite pointedly not true that most of the equipment down at the fire station is toy fire trucks brought in by conscientious neighbourhood kids.
thestringpuller: perhaps the toys should change. much more useful to work on toys that signal real life than say plastic thing on wheels.
mircea_popescu: this entire "look what prb does" is so much cosmo kramer from kramerica industries fixing the fire dept. what was that episode
thestringpuller: "Meanwhile, Kramer buys a police scanner and decides to help at the New York City Fire Department. When they receive a call about the fire at Leapin' Larry's, Kramer accidentally knocks out the fire engine driver, forcing him to take the wheel, realizing his lifelong dream. However, he is unable to steer correctly and crashes the fire engine, allowing the fire to spread further."
thestringpuller: admittedly Kramer is pretty much a modern VC wet dream. some of the stuff he sells that's "successful" is just...
thestringpuller: for instance the coffee table book about coffee tables that can turn into a coffee table
mircea_popescu: kinda how decay goes : stuff is the butt of jokes and "how stupid can these stupid people be", then next decade - sop.
thestringpuller: you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)
☟︎ thestringpuller: sometimes I wonder if we went down another path where the educational toys actually make the next generation more stupid. i always thought it interesting that "children of the future will be smarter"
mircea_popescu: well... computers of the future will be better, right ?
mircea_popescu: intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (no, no, intelligence is not a THING. it is a behaviour. like dancing.)
thestringpuller: severe lack of education, these days. perhaps not enough beating. or enough starving for dropouts.
adlai: thestringpuller: main problem these days is too much bitcoin, they've printed 15 million already and show no signs of stopping
adlai: massiro: cool wall! sorry about the impoliteness.
mircea_popescu: adlai you can just up unknowns, they'll resolve it soon enough.
mircea_popescu: what you shouldn't do is up known idiots, but few resist the temptation.
adlai: meh, i spam enough myself, no need to facilitate spamming by schroedinger's idiots.
adlai: but thank you for the blanket permission :P
thestringpuller: reminds me of conversation I had with CVS cashier. dude was fresh out of high school and I began explaining how banks worked cause I was furious the ATM fees were 5 bucks in that store. anyhow after 5 minutes of confusion cause kid didn't pay attention in school states, "I ain't trynna think that hard man. I'm done with school."
adlai tried explaining bitcoin to a flatmate, seven different ways. each time explanation was met with "why can't people just use money". known idiot is now a former-flatmate.
thestringpuller: sure why not live in ignorance. get your 8.50/hr from CVS, blow it on rent, pot and booze, continue on. no incentive for agency. just a programmable cog.
thestringpuller: frighteningly similar to brave new world. (give em soma and carry on)
mircea_popescu: adlai i don't see the problem with this objection ? "they are. that's what i'm telling you. you don't use greek bronze weights, do you ?"
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller hey, life is good, whadda ya want. partay!
adlai: ah, so bitcoin is just another mettle, like gold, iron, greek bronze, and mental fortitude?
mircea_popescu: well, money's a whore, kinda old by now, consequently keeps changing her attire.
adlai: indeed the local rabble love to shout, "BITCOIN ZE BARZEL"
adlai: well if i ever meet the guy again, i'll be sure to tell him mircea_popescu thanks him for not buying his divestment.
thestringpuller: ;;later tell asciilifeform Finally experienced the stuck node thing. Interesting behavior. Wouldn't even accept the "stop" command. Had to kill -9 it.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i guess let them live in ignorance as long as said ignorance doesn't interfere with the adults?
thestringpuller: why open a nice school in the ghetto, if it'll just get defaced two weeks later?
adlai: yet a precise interferometer is about as feasible as a trustworthy kyristor
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, this'd be what i mean. capitulation what ?
mircea_popescu: and how does this relate to what was being discussed ?
mircea_popescu: again. how is this related to what was being discussed ?
adlai: mircea_popescu: you did say we may have to choose the lesser of two evils
mircea_popescu: THENNNNNNN we will have no fucking good choices to make.
adlai: other than "no fork"?
adlai: there is no spoon, nor a fork. there is a knife, and it lowers kelvin.
mircea_popescu: adlai wouldja think for a moment ? if miners fork tomorrow, pre-miner-fork trb will not be defensible. because bitfury (you know, kakobrekla's friends) have access to vc capital, and will bridge the gap between us printing press and chinese mining.
mircea_popescu: should have fucking killed those derps back when they were nobody and losing bitbet bets,
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER we didn't, because hey, maybe they do somethign good
adlai: so you're specifically suggesting a "reset PoW" fork?
mircea_popescu: in the end, what they did was they sparked through the dielectric.
mircea_popescu: adlai i'm specifically suggesting we better stop flailing emotionally and fucking think, because things are not going well.
adlai: asciilifeform: i can't find this article. do you mean the "necessary prerequisite" one?
kakobrekla: dunno about friendship - i havent been able to reach bitfury in years
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.
☟︎ adlai: fwiw, i sincerely doubt miners would "let core devs decide" if they believed "economic consensus" were against the devs; but this leaves open the problem of convincing them of this.
adlai does not control economic consensus, nor the miners
mircea_popescu: adlai they believe the rewaerd havling will kill them, which it well might ; and they see the opportunity with all the core/bitcoin-xt/blabla. will they take it ?
kakobrekla: asciilifeform apparently im accused for working for the dark side now, somehow ?
adlai: asciilifeform: partially, although the market price of forkchains makes consensus crystal clear - but only in retrospect.
mircea_popescu: there's a difference between "i know x" and "i don't know x".
adlai: mircea_popescu: hmmm. ok, this is a valid question, my answer to which is: port Luke-Jr's keccak reset from "classic" to trb, and be ready to activate it, should a fork occur.
adlai: but i don't think trb should initiate a fork.
mircea_popescu: the entire thing was, we should take stock of the situation, and make some judgements and plan some plans in a complete and responsible manner.
mircea_popescu: just like we [at least theoretically/aspirationally] write code
adlai: asciilifeform: "port" in the loose sense of the word. let's rephrase that as "some poor code monkey should write a keccak vpatch for trb, but nobody should ever have to use it"
adlai: of course, this is why we have ATC
mircea_popescu: so again : 1) ~IF~ summer/july becomes the summer of forks, what do we do ?
mircea_popescu: 2) IF miners come out with their own fork, what do we do ?
adlai: asciilifeform: you never answered my question. which is mp's keccak article?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform please note that it was strictly example and not design work ready for implementation.
adlai: ok, i also like that idea, although as you said yourself, it's not fully baked yet. i also like that it can be initially opt-in, with an ultimatum that it gets 'hardened' by some date, if it hasn't 'softened' by then.
mircea_popescu: i dunno wtf i shoulda done different so this happened a week ago rather than now.
adlai: asciilifeform: mircea's suggestion is implementable as a soft fork.
adlai: ie, only miners ~must~ enforce it; once nodes also do, it hardens, and then miners can't choose to reverse the previously-soft fork.
adlai: until it hardens, miners could reverse.
adlai: we're probably talking about different articles.
adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"
☟︎ adlai: which is possible to launch as a miner-only fork, which nodes can choose to enforce, but don't have to; and then at some later date, all nodes enforce it, and miners know they must keep enforcing it, too.
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1UyPaxv )
thestringpuller: i like how bitcoin mining manufacturers don't even shy away about it: "this is the most powerful miner available to ~the public~" what miners are available to the private?
adlai: asciilifeform: we're talking about the same article. read what i just said, it is about that idea.
adlai: thestringpuller: all the ones that matter
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller might just be boilerplate. replace "to the public" with "on god's own earth".
mircea_popescu: can't make this sorta judgements on the basis of fucking copywriting.
adlai: asciilifeform: it's an idea because it means that the "#b-a fork" isn't a hard-fork that can fail.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno, the crowning of five years of complete neglect of the relay network ?
adlai: as opposed to "let's make our new blocks incompatible"
adlai: breaking consensus is a hard fork. narrowing it - soft.
assbot: Logged on 20-10-2015 22:10:51; ascii_field: 'we'll make trucks over five tonnes switch sides first!'
adlai: well what do i go on about? ultimately the whole hard/soft thing is a terrible terminology, verging on false dichotomy.
adlai shuts up and attends to private matters
mircea_popescu: adlai you go about deductively showing your proposal from the shared basis.
adlai: aha, here's the misunderstanding. my proposal was not a pow switch.
thestringpuller: get the miners to execute themselves willingly - softfork.
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 12:01:30; *: adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"
adlai adjusts meth-lsd dosage accordingly to reduce hallucinations
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform keeping old coinbases has the advantage and the disadvantage of keeping old coinbases.
mircea_popescu: yes, schelling point to continue, yes with the same idiots/geniuses as before, and thus at a lower adoption interest.
mircea_popescu: i'm not pushing it either this way or that, just want to get all the things on table if possibru.
mircea_popescu: (and generally i dunno why this shortcircuit between facts and judgement became fashionable here, seems much too close to the habits of the "independent" demographic for comfort. trust me, if i want to say x i will say it in those exact words, as i have without exception to date. saying i don't know x means i do not know. and similarly, here, and so on. i totally can speak for myself, say what i mean etc.)
mircea_popescu: which was part of my initial wtf at your initial reaction.
mircea_popescu: so your idea is, that we of course continue to maintain trb as is, but also develop a keccak pow variant, for use in case of forks ? or vice-versa, in case of forks develop it ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol hey, life of your parents! funny how this works!
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1UyRBjA )
mircea_popescu: basically, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest), and BOTH must be < difficulty.
mircea_popescu: what i read there was, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest+nonce)
mircea_popescu: that's not the problem, the merkle tree jiggling is the problem.
mircea_popescu: ah ah. that's just assumption imported from current codebase, not intentional.
mircea_popescu: the valuable idea there is, imo, that you have to keep the same nonce to calculate both sha values. which ACTUALLY does work, or seems to me to work, to do what the article proposes
mircea_popescu: see, the beauty of this is that it is a TRUE soft fork.
mircea_popescu: in the pow1 = sha(header+nonce) and pow2 = sha(digest+nonce), the first sha can even stay what it is now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same argument could be presented in reverse, also.
mircea_popescu: after all, do you know how much usg stole so far ? do they have more than satoshi yet ? if not yet, when ?
mircea_popescu: but this does not detract from their capacity of selling.
mircea_popescu: im sorry, "detract from their capacity of stealing" is what i meant.
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 12:09:47; thestringpuller: this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform usg currently steals to sell. perhaps. this does not reduce their capacity to steal in the future. if in the future they steal to hoard, or if the stuff they "sold" was just facade, through preserving coinbases we are baking in not just the original satoshi, but also an evil satoshi.
mircea_popescu: these are all the moving parts we'll have to count and balance.
mircea_popescu: if btc people were the sort where it'd cost about 1.25 heads of usg agent per bitcoin stolen, this is one thing.
mircea_popescu: so i can't compute this like you would. it's silent and cheap, not loud, not costly.
mircea_popescu: not being an anglotard - even better start. and yet...
mircea_popescu: i would propose to you that "destroying the keys" feels exactly like "moving to argentina" does to you.
mircea_popescu: so it is usable by anyone who doesn't work, live, was educated or born in the us.
mircea_popescu: this utter fear of finality they bake into all their runts.
mircea_popescu: hahahaha. and similarly i know that they WOULDNT NEED TO pull the pin
mircea_popescu: if they were properly leet and called their secret legions to battle with da polis.
mircea_popescu: yes, plenty of folk do. that don't work, live, were educated or born in the us.
mircea_popescu: suddenly we understand the importance of national heroes like joe stack
mircea_popescu: it protects an entire fucking population from the above being an absolute.
mircea_popescu: i did build and burn a number of fortunes, but in my younger years. nevertheless : you know, peter ALSO didn't HAVE TO take the imperial guard with.
mircea_popescu: for actual emperors. not for fuckrags a la obama, but for actual emperors.
mircea_popescu: mortals ain't pulling any pins, you see. so yea, "anyonecandoit".
mircea_popescu had a friend, and a fine fellow he was, who unfortunately died young. but we were friends from childhood
mircea_popescu: my earliest memory of him is, we were in some rural setting, dun recall whose grandparents, and we had chicks (kids get young hatchlings to play with in the time and place, it's a time-honored tradition like getting your toddler one of those dingly noise things to put above the crib or w/e)
mircea_popescu: some younger kid that didn't have one wanted to play with his, this guy would have none of it, eventually some adult intervened to make him share
mircea_popescu: so he turned the chicks neck and threw the corpse at the whiner.
mircea_popescu: school hadn't yet started, so we were prolly 6 or so. but this was a rare concept even at that age.
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo ping me when you have time to look at possible qntra submission. Grazie.
mircea_popescu: (and to cap that story - yea the adults expressed outrage ["how could you do that!"] but no, he wasn't punished, because no there was no offense, and the father(s) wouldn't have it, or generally let the women run amok with their nonsense. so hurray for patriarchy or whatever, boo the psychopaths of this world!)
assbot: Logged on 15-03-2016 23:11:11; jurov: and *gasp* roman catholics
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 11:50:11; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60550 @ 0.0004201 = 25.4371 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: anyone else apply for s.bbet receivership job?
nubbins` guesses nobody except for that one turbo-unqualified nobody
davout: nubbins`: just interested in seeing who's paying attention
jurov: i wish i had rather not pay attention
nubbins`: jurov it would make things easier
trinque: adlai: your deed will send as soon as this thing reimports its key into the wallet for the 30th time
adlai: mircea_popescu: that is such a terrible story, the child should have been spanked for chiccicide
trinque: $ LC_ALL=C bitcoind listaccounts
adlai: aha looks like trinque is pulling a ben_vulpes ?
adlai: the child should have been spanked! you don't just go around letting your kids kill things, without a little flick on the butt
trinque: when I had a cat it killed things all the time, for fun.
adlai: mircea_popescu: i wanna answer with a log link, but the search is failing so i'll quote instead: "mircea_popescu: *-cide is never justifiable"
adlai: although the * in that context was just a bunch of cells!
adlai: (for the lispless in the audience, cells are a human invention, by kenny tilton)
adlai: somebody on better terms with that man oughtta invite him in here someday.
adlai: iirc somebody asked you whether you justify abortion or somesuch
adlai: !s mircea abortion
adlai lets googlebot find it
adlai: it's 4:20, i got blunts to burn and chat to spurn.
mircea_popescu: adlai can't propose weird stances for mp to have taken in the past and then crap out on the documentation.
adlai: well it was definitely after i joined the channel, if that limits the search space.
mircea_popescu: nobody's going to do your work. you wanna talk to the adults, talk like the adults.
assbot: Logged on 22-04-2015 01:52:22; mircea_popescu: the alternative is nothing. murder's not something to be explained.
adlai attains enlightenment - "chix" are not subject to "murder"!
adlai: thank you, buddha. you're next.
mircea_popescu: you see the difference between to explain and to justify yes ?
adlai wanders off in search of the buddha
mircea_popescu: discretionary acts are that, discretionary. no explanation is available for the private sphere.
mircea_popescu: but yes, that's the major problem of murder : a private act with major public effects. pretty major conundrum.
adlai blows buddha-neck-dust off hands
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00042006 / 0.00042062 / 0.00042603 (374417 shares, 157.49 BTC), 7D: 0.00042006 / 0.00048142 / 0.00053073 (12408846 shares, 5,973.87 BTC), 30D: 0.00042006 / 0.00055086 / 0.00059897 (72958913 shares, 40,190.59 BTC)
mircea_popescu: so i made the mistake of following the tardpedia link. therein,
mircea_popescu: A student asked Master Yun-Men (A.D. 949) "Not even a thought has arisen; is there still a sin or not?" Master replied, "Mount Sumeru!"
mircea_popescu: i'm not sure there exists but i'm sure i don't know anything more offensive than the precious derpage in the eastern tradition.
adlai: they were right about killing them! put them out of their fucking misery, can't you hear it in their "bushels of flax"
assbot: Logged on 27-01-2016 00:03:26; mircea_popescu: isn't lying fun.
mircea_popescu: "if you meet a derpy teenager with whispy "beard" hair, onanistic odours wafting every which way who can'tstop prattlingabout his erotic exploits...
mircea_popescu: fucking bullshit, "what's the meaning of coincidence ?" "dunno dood, HE HAD TO FUCKING COME FROM SOMEWHERE" hurr durr.
mircea_popescu: "gotta do something while waiting for buddha to decide christ's more fun and come back to save or someshit."
mircea_popescu: "meanwhile this cock ain't gonna rub itself, so here we are".
mircea_popescu: adlai you realise - google is even better at koans than at go.
mircea_popescu: trinque "but what is the meaning of the colors!" "the wild fox is dead"
mircea_popescu: in the same vein, mihai margineanu playing atm, just went "whenever you ask a question you don't expect answered ; why are you surprised when you get an answer you didn't expect".
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 14:46:24; mircea_popescu: hurr durr we're in nirvana hall.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is coincidentally the pompous name of the place where the events discussed transpired.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what, the assumption that alternatives exist died in practice yet again ?
mircea_popescu: and silly me, to think that the guys in the subway are there by choice, and they could do something else.
mircea_popescu: "no subway, no travel - i don't own a 1/100000 of the 100`000 spare car meta-pool, nor do i have anything to do that'd justify it."
mircea_popescu: so tell me, as a curio : what is the correct accounting for "city having subway" in the books of a donut shop at the corner of 85th and 10th ?
mircea_popescu: because it clearly IS part of the books, right ? trivially enumerable, as it is. just not easy to evaluate.
mircea_popescu: so... how do you put the subway on the donut shop's books!
mircea_popescu: in case this is not obvious, transparent parallel to our bitbet adventures.
mircea_popescu: hey, i dunno what posterity is like. maybe they're retarded.
mircea_popescu: i prefer to practice safe sex rather than safe assumptions.
jurov: mircea_popescu: pls to mpex
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 14:03:05; nubbins`: davout you have a 21.co?
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 14:19:29; trinque: "" : -0.00020000
trinque: I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva.
trinque: too much manual lever-pulling at the moment
davout: trinque: that -0.00020000 comes from the "accounts" mega-turd?
trinque: asciilifeform: right, I would at least need sendrawtxn (can make txn elsewhere) but it would also be nice to have createrawtxn and signrawtxn I suppose.
trinque: I can do the latter two outside too
trinque: had my own external wallet db for btcd
trinque: I was simply keeping a sqlite db of txns
trinque: hypothetically I would like to simply be able to inquire the balance of any address at any time
trinque: this seems heavy given the db structure used
davout: this "accounts" thing is such an abomination...
trinque: yep, you have finite volume and items of varying volume and value, want to pack the knapsack by optimal value
trinque worked on warehouse software in ancient days
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but i never had a whole fucking chicken << seriously ?!
mircea_popescu: my sister killed more than these by being a kid and accidentally stepping on their heads than i can recall.
mircea_popescu: trinque> I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva. << bless your heart.
mircea_popescu: davout> this "accounts" thing is such an abomination... << consensus on this since... 2011 ?
mircea_popescu: trinque i recall me losing my top over this back in 2013ish or w/e the first time bitcoin-idiocy got in the way of bitbet, being told "oh wait, this is an actual problem - we don't resolve problems, we write code here at prb!"
mircea_popescu: "Fix the motherfucking code before you have to be fired. To recap : a. If I want to make 1 Mb txs I make 1 Mb txs ; b. correct inputs are selected to feed the outputs as if a human or better was doing the selecting." << also march, as fate would have it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how exactly is the notion ludicrous in itself ?
mircea_popescu: well... by some standard a brick is a computer, so sure.
mircea_popescu: even historical order would acvtually beat trb on this.
mircea_popescu: both the "shittier than historical" and "new addr for change" bits are satoshi's dubious kludges to protect "anonimity"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: except for a very poorly defined, mostly felt notion of "anonimity"
mircea_popescu: or, in the words of the ballas master, " Yet given the infinity of the internet you still surf the same 5 websites, looking for and finding exactly what you want, like a baby playing peekaboo in a mirror over and over and over and over and over and over and..."
trinque: fixed or removed and cauterized?
trinque: I was doing just fine without a wallet using btcd
trinque: and shitting my own txns in from elsewhere
trinque: jumped onto trb intending to cause myself severe pain such that gears of progress and whatnot
mircea_popescu: "on the basis of the leaks coming from the invisible aircraft we have learned that it is a duck."
mircea_popescu: amateur hunter returns empty handed from swamp. "nothing but migs out there good god what's the world coming to!"
hanbot: phf / anyone who mac-erizes or might mess with gpgtools, tell me menu option & any steps involved in exporting pubkey if you have a moment? i'm trying to put a eulora wiki guide together and these derps have like zero documentation.
mircea_popescu: actually that's a great name for the temple for this here cult,
mircea_popescu: teh dsc sounds like a pretty kickass patron deity, thinking about it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.00042006 = 27.997 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: machine is not a thing in the sense here contemplated.
mircea_popescu: the whole deal was something like "and lee sedol will now play the whole nation of china - elect a representative, or two, or whatever. the go competence of the entire han race is being judged"
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 11:21:59; thestringpuller: you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 11:27:35; mircea_popescu: intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".
mircea_popescu: the adaptive behaviour is teh intelligence - the rest, will, if you will, or whatever.
mircea_popescu: but it is more reliably notstupid than people, for sure.
mircea_popescu: now why'd you strawman the "adaptive behaviour" ? what the fuck do you care what the outcome is.
mircea_popescu: that you don't like the outcome is not cause to alter the definitions lol.
mircea_popescu: i am sorry strawman doth not make much sense and commiserate !
mircea_popescu: the root of the problem would seem to be the self-serving but otherwise bluntly unwarranted assumption that "intelligence is useful in all circumstances".
mircea_popescu: must not be the same animal, sea cucumber i think of is an echinoderm.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, so animal that stops locomoting gives up brain cells used for handling that.
mircea_popescu: recall pigeon experiments ? brain is plastic, takes over function of lost partys
mircea_popescu: at the expense of other processes, of course. so what of it ?
mircea_popescu: so because enthalpy, you propose no commerce is possible.
mircea_popescu: did i ever recall the story of the slavegirl that had never seen railroad tracks ?
trinque: "here's an impregnation" << lolol
mircea_popescu: so we go to cross some tracks and i say "careful not to touch the shiny parts!" and she carefully steps to not touch the shiny parts.
mircea_popescu: later finding herself at a good time for such, inquires why parts were shiny ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not all people come from europe you know.
trinque: portland wants to be yurp bad enough to have put some in
trinque: couple of hipster chicks get flattened by it per year
mircea_popescu: anyway, i wonder why asciilifeform is so convinced that one may only see the truth of things that don't affect them personally.
mircea_popescu: what is this. mayhap the explanation isn't that mp lives in a heat-death immune dirigible (upgraded from atomic) but simply... does not care ?
mircea_popescu: but look at the jump : 1) unexplained item can be explained by a or b ; 2) it's a b-olympics!
mircea_popescu: these are as far as i've seen the two mindbugs of the republic : a) A -> B therefore B-> A, ie backflow ; and b) the above.
mircea_popescu: ethics (ie, the mechanism to answer "what should i do") is a very severely limited science.
mircea_popescu: why did the man get out of bed ? he could stay in bed, regress to childhood and whatever, paint posters to show mommy.
trinque: why did the shark swim when it could stop?
mircea_popescu: (ever wondered, btw, why some men favour ugly, unattractive women ? the freudian explanation is exactly above - they seek to reunite with mother, in which case sexual appeal is a hindrance not an asset.)
assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 16 hours ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )
trinque: "why does it feel good to will things into being?"
trinque: ask the dumb hill-climbing optimizer?
mircea_popescu: trinque possibly the least offensive koan of the lot is the one with "why did i rescue the scorpion ? it is my nature!"
mircea_popescu: of course - a bee can kill a man, if it's the right bee and the right man.
mircea_popescu: bad restating. they took out the dying part - very indicative of the cocksucker sort they are.
mircea_popescu: mno. the numerous lee sedols of that pointless boardgame.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>was this dear old nubs? << nope, i have more pressing concerns than anonymously trolling bitbet comments
nubbins`: also, shipping dept managed to get crate delivered for half of what i quoted you, so plz PM signed refund address at your convenience
nubbins`: i'd considered sending you a mystery prize but figured that'd be a bit too fast & loose
nubbins`: most of the contributors attempted to refuse some of their payment
nubbins`: "this is too much, i'm not joking"
nubbins`: in terms of retail value, we handed out $10k worth of books to contributing artists
nubbins`: i was a bit :0 when i did the math
trinque: mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself?
trinque will put his awk shitwaders on later
trinque: anyhow, looks like polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch needs rebasing
funkenstein_: i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment
☟︎ funkenstein_: which part of that article is worth discussing?
funkenstein_: its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought
☟︎ phf: trinque: yeah, polarbeard_better_log_messages depends on a conflicting patchset
assbot: patches for hash 02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3 ... (
http://bit.ly/1UA4udk )
phf: depends on deprecated asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum's version of main.cpp
phf: trinque: i say, press to polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file, then patch -p1 < polarbeard_better_log_messages, then vpatch the result, then do same for polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc. that's sort of easiest, fastest way to regrind
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1UEI3BP )
mircea_popescu discovers that he can't rightly say what fedora even is. is it what, a distro ? some sort of centos ?
jurov: fedora is opensource kitchen for redhat
jurov: and prelinking is writing directly to the binaries/ dynamic libs what virtual memory address are they going and which addresses can all the other depending libraries found at
mircea_popescu: my meagre understanding of computing doesn't allow me to discern the intended meaning.
mircea_popescu: "pre fuck" i can imagine what'd be. pre linking... no.
jurov: basically it's like "printf has address 0x000002254fe5450"
jurov: and every binary that calls it gets written this addy in it
mircea_popescu: so what it this supposed to achieve for the putative enemy, make proper allocation impossible or what ?
mircea_popescu: ah right because stuff like hashes no longer mean anything\
jurov: it's supposed to avoid determining where the actual printf is located every time you run some program, which can be solved byt other and better means
mircea_popescu: hey, anatomizing teratoma is exactly how noobs learn cytopathology etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform inasmuch as he steal speaks of "its money", orlov doesn't actually get the turkey dollars thing. he earnestly thinks that there is ONE kind of usdollar, and PART of that one is "wasted". whereas the situation in the field is that there's two kinds, ands the bezzle part can only be bezzled with.
mircea_popescu: i still don't get this. all this derpage from the early days of systemd "it makes servers boot faster"
mircea_popescu: if a box goes down trying to figure wtf takes 10x to 100x longer than it takes t oboot
mircea_popescu: "• It spends it on a bunch of aircraft carrier groups. These are very useful for launching attacks on defenseless countries. But it is very important to keep these aircraft carriers outside of conflict zones that may involve China or Russia, or even Iran, because each of these countries has several cost-effective ways to destroy an aircraft carrier: ballistic missiles, supersonic cruise missiles and supersonic torped
mircea_popescu: oes. The entire aircraft carrier fleet is obsolete, and is another huge waste of money." <<< aaaaactually... romania has the capacity to sink us carriers. so does israel. so does brazil
mircea_popescu: so does half the fucking world already. it's not 1990 anymoar.
nubbins`: funkenstein_ merciless mercantile morals!
mircea_popescu: lol re aegis-khibiny thing tho. funny how that's not at all discussed in english huh.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins`: actually ok to tx back to originating addr << 10-4
mircea_popescu: prolly the russians just elbowed the something or other.
mircea_popescu: and of fucking course the army of dead empire is the nest of corruption. wtf. jannissary corps v2.0
mircea_popescu: i forgot what the chinese thing was called, but anyway.
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 18:50:31; funkenstein_: i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment
assbot: Logged on 16-03-2016 19:04:24; funkenstein_: its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ? << WHAT?!?
assbot: Brothers filmed attack on police station that left officer dead, authorities say - The Washington Post ... (
http://bit.ly/1PctO2i )
BingoBoingo: Interesting mortadella there, will qntra unless you direly want to do it
BingoBoingo: Ok, I just suggest it because I know few things as refreshing for the mind as digging into an especially lulzy incident for qntra.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so wait, an hero killed no-one, police did all the murderin' ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Any idea where the video is? I can't seem to find it on "World Star Hiphop"
BingoBoingo: Just to be pedantic 'An Hero' is the technical term for anyone acting with intent to off themselves
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile Lavoy Finicum was a hero because he was fighting the powah
nubbins`: maybe he an hero'd by pretending to reach for a weapon
nubbins`: i think this is called "an hero by cop"
BingoBoingo: By running the initial blockade Finicum was clearly excercising his duty to evade in an effort to continue the fight later
BingoBoingo: Also the FBI did squeeze of a couple shots before his hands went anywhere near his waistband
gribble: Current Blocks: 402984 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 215 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
funkenstein_: BingoBoingo, you saw the footage from inside the Lavoy Finicum mobile?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If you are talking Kasich the correct lsd is the one that extracts lulz from setting the man up to fail.
BingoBoingo: The Bahamas gang's reign is ending and the electoral progress is a mess in an effort to rig the contest in Clitler's favor. Qntra however has to prepare for lulztingencies. Among these is a contested convention.
BingoBoingo: Seriously though I know nothing of Coastal life in USia
BingoBoingo: I know places where actual food happens seasonally and mass food is recycled in the fields though the Corn Cycle. I rightly can't believe the Coast or Death phenomenon as anything other than a form of Stockholm syndrome.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.37, vol: 4238.65955648 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.825, vol: 5827.13841 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 417.17, vol: 6827.4166771 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.962284, vol: 23502.07510000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 417.335, vol: 1466.60524061 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 424.402224, vol: 61.35244944 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.104775095
gribble: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
BingoBoingo: In other news Orange Clinton is threatening riots if the RNC convention denies him the nomination
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is supposed to have made that youtube video ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00042004 = 8.9679 BTC [-] {2}
mod6: <+trinque> mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself? << hey, uumm... so yeah, i think it does tell you which one barfed on press. did you use (v | verbose) in there? or have a dpaste of what it did?
mod6: also: /bin/sh: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string << i think you can resolve this locally by installing gawk
mod6: anyway, I see you patch, thanks for posting. when I get around to making another version of V, i'll throw that in there.
mod6: mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque phf, et. al., I've been mulling it over while i've been following the logs for some days now about what seems like a good fork to have in our possession: at this point, im inclined to think implementation of Mr. P.'s outlined ideas are the best choice, currently.
mod6: However, my main objective is still to finish up the v054 release before diving into any of that quite yet. It's my fault, I havent done jack-shit all month basically. I've been meaning to work with trinque and get these makefiles battle-ready, but have had a number of meatspace things get in the way.
mircea_popescu: the thing is, the more features the putative fork has, the better, i suppose.
mircea_popescu: except by features i don't mean "features". obviously.
mircea_popescu: healing the relay-miner divide, if in fact the thing on trilema does it, would be a great one.
mircea_popescu: too bad i constantly strangle the easy fruit pickers. if only they fucking picked in THAT direction ffs.
jurov: mod6: Mr P.'s outlined ideas would benefit from deeper adversarial analysis, maybe it comes out it's possible only 1000 times slower using rainbow tables or other techniques I proposed in the comments
mod6: jurov: ah, very much so.
mod6: i like what i've read, more analysis and discussion of implementation decisions are required for sure. i think we'll get there as this thread continues over the next 45 days.
mircea_popescu: ok. so currently, for every block being mined : a header is calculated ; to this a nonce is added, the combine hashed. the resultant hash has to be smaller than a number to qualify as a found block.
mircea_popescu: in the proposed model : a header is calculated, same way. to this, anonce is added, the combine hashed. this is hash 1. a digest is calculated, on the basis of past blocks. to this, the SAME nonce is added. the combine hashed. this is hash 2
mircea_popescu: BOTH hash 1 and hash 2 have to be under a number to qualify as a found block.