log
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shinohai: http://archive.is/bvxYe COVFEFE!!!
lobbes: "Communications Over Various Feeds Electronically for Engagement." heh
shinohai: Your tax dollars at work.
mircea_popescu: pretty fucken sad
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you'll note that the losers took the republican position, imaginary higher ground, bullshit like that
mircea_popescu: in all such disputes, whoever fires most wins.
asciilifeform: i still dun get m. begin's pov. ordered his men to surrender and join idf! and had the auctoritas that... they did
mircea_popescu: because idiot.
asciilifeform: and so the british pest was permitted to continue to live, and infest the continent
asciilifeform: to this day.
mircea_popescu: people who believe violence is not the answer don't belong alive.
mircea_popescu: and it's a sickeningly common view among underground fighters because they makle the mistake to "salvage their sanity" by "pretending this is something that's not them"
asciilifeform: and this was the d00d who ran irgun ! supposedly, tough motherfucker who killed brits with bare hands etc.
mircea_popescu: EXACTLY like loser barrista.
mircea_popescu: yes, but.
mircea_popescu: fucking credo goes "this is my rifle" etc specifically BECAUSE loser = dude who thinks "whatcha hassling me for man, it's just a gig, it;'s not my life"
mircea_popescu: it is your fucking life motherfucker. now shoot, and shoot fast and bust heads on every round.
asciilifeform: there is a pov that irgun was british-infested even earlier, though, and 'lehi' was the tru-fork. but i do not have a deep enough picture of the period events to say if.
mircea_popescu: in general british infestation worked like staph aureus. "it's everywhere and it only does anything if you're already aids"
mircea_popescu: at least that's my picture of the 1900s
asciilifeform: my current understanding is that this is only half-correct -- brits also helped folx pick up the aids.
asciilifeform: ( most famously -- opium in cn. but similar elsewhere. )
mircea_popescu: meh. consider -- china, 100% infested pre mao. did nothing. russia, tsar time, during "the great race", idem. did nothing.
mircea_popescu: did ~nothing to the boers, either.
mircea_popescu: only places it did anything were like sudan, israel, niggerlands.
mircea_popescu: the us.
asciilifeform: this thread a little too thin for asciilifeform's naked eye.
mircea_popescu: just mah impression.
asciilifeform: 'When a terrorist group such as the Irgun Zvai Leumi sees their key objective completed, what do they do? In the case of their use of terrorism, the Irgun came to an end not because the funds died out or support waned, but because the leadership recognized the need to move to a more democratic and non-violent strategy. In order to continue pushing for additional change, no longer would the Irgun act under overt auspices of violence.
asciilifeform: Their primary purpose fulfilled, they had no agenda supportable with violence anymore due to the creation of the state of Israel’s presence. Instead of disbanding after their success, the Irgun continued to remain active, shifting into a productive political role. ' -- random usg derp
asciilifeform: pretty typical 'parliamentarian' rot ^ example
asciilifeform: 'violence is hard, let's go shopping'
asciilifeform: iirc the irish folx went into this same /dev/null of history, quite recently
mircea_popescu: yeah, i dunno that i'd take the wailing and whining of ronin women discussing the men into account
mircea_popescu: the whole gambit of the mother is, "don't cry baby, see, X is gone now"
mircea_popescu: it dun matter whether x is gone or not. what matters is the saying. maybe the baby is dumb enough and falls in the words trap ?
mircea_popescu: and if not... she'll say it again and again andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andagain andv.
asciilifeform: it boggles my mind that none of these folx ( at least afaik ) ever grasped that 'nonviolence', 'rule of law', 'parliamentarianism' were tentacles of the enemy, rather than a victory
mircea_popescu: kinda why mothering sucks in the first place.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect most of them really wanted to go shopping.
mircea_popescu: it was utterly the case of eg ro revolution. none of the people there wanted "freedom". they were literally pissed off they can't drive over to austrian border and load up the car at the w/e discount shop.
mircea_popescu: 100% the problem.
asciilifeform: the infamous 'sausage emigres' of su, ditto
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: ( 'left motherland for 100 sorts of sausage' )
mircea_popescu: so you know, they don't realise because they weren't there present in the first plac.e
mircea_popescu: funny thing is, hruschev had the right idea with his "We'll sausage and oversausage!".
asciilifeform: sorta why ben gurion had the boat shelled and the survivors - machine-gunned. had 0 to do with the cargo, but with the 900+ irgun recruits on board, who didn't yet 'want to go shopping'
mircea_popescu: it's just kinda funny that a) the one eyed man in russian empire was deemed dumb by the blind ; and b) the unassuming and unexpected little chinese man ACTUALLY DID IT. never said it. did do it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform likely, yes.
mircea_popescu: which is how we know jews are congenitally stupid. if you can round up 1k of those people ande NOT ONE head lights up with the realisation that "either we walk out of here THROUGH the enemy or not at all", it's braindamage.
mircea_popescu: same dead stock that populated the lime pits.
asciilifeform: apparently not all were oven fodder
mircea_popescu: but none had a working brain.
asciilifeform: some -- formed irgun, lehi, etc
asciilifeform: and went to multiply some brits by 0
mircea_popescu: i would say the last jew with an actuallyt functioning noggin died pre 1900.
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTF5gr_nOMc << not wholly unrelated.
asciilifeform: ( in re 'go shopping' )
BingoBoingo: Questions http://qntra.net/2017/06/ethereum-blocks-way-the-fuck-too-big-smart-contract-ddosing-own-initial-coin-offering-to-blame/#comment-101819
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> in general british infestation worked like staph aureus. "it's everywhere and it only does anything if you're already aids" << Who needs AIDS in USia or Britain where blood is sweeter than agar?
mircea_popescu: |blood is thicker than water, because sweeter than honey"
BingoBoingo: And sweeter than honey because insulin resistance
mod6: evenin'
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo remember that dude from fucking siberia begging in b-a years ago ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not off hand
mircea_popescu: myeah. lots of these
BingoBoingo: Many times there were beggars, many times I was drunk. It is a miracle I remember as much as I do.
mircea_popescu: hehe
BingoBoingo: !!up Guest497
deedbot: Guest497 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of html : im currently very impressed with http://dragoneternity.com
mircea_popescu: buncha russians made a flawless browser game, it's something else.
diana_coman: that dragoneternity game actually looks good
mircea_popescu: considering the terror that working with browsers is in the first place, dudes are wizards.
diana_coman: still: "latest Flash Player version is required for the client to function properly"
mircea_popescu: myeah.
shinohai: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2748.08, vol: 32981.09395675 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2690.001, vol: 14567.0408 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2666.6, vol: 48856.8198473 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2865.6474, vol: 25657.15940000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2743.689, vol: 10699.8473025 | Volume-weighted last average: 2734.08931823
sina: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6gtrmd/freewalletorg_scam_millions_stolen/
shinohai: Nah, funds are safe there. They store funds in a multi-signature cold storage with a bank level security grade!
sina: bank level is the best security grade
shinohai: This is obviously a step above - I'm willing to bet all passwords are secured with military grade encryption too, since they are so professional.
mircea_popescu: shinohai mindboggling
shinohai: ikr? I saw that item yesterday but didn't seem Qntrable to me as the "scam" appeared to be related to the Ethereum network self-DDoS.
mircea_popescu: most wtf part is the notion those dorks actually had k's in btc
mircea_popescu can't quite bring self to believe.
shinohai: Well, if you don't have the private keys to an address to prove ownership, you really don't have anything at all, no matter how many imaginary numbers you are told you hold on a site.
shinohai thinks the numbers are oft exaggerated on reddit to make the wheel squeakier .....
mircea_popescu: must be
mircea_popescu: typical half ounce a week "Drug dealer" gets robbed, thieves make away with 17k in cash and some cheap fake jewelry. "MULLIONS MISSING!!!"
mircea_popescu: exactly how "drug busts" work, come to think of it.
mircea_popescu: in case anyone still wanted indicia as to where the fish rotten from. it was the fucking "law enforcement".
shinohai: Case in point: http://archive.is/fH2Hz - Where fentanyl you can buy all day in an DN market for $2-3 gram is suddenly worth $10k per
shinohai: feeb maths
mircea_popescu: a yeah, don't even remind me of the """major player""" silk road, that somehow was a big deal in spite of not being able to place one pound over xmas-new year's. TWO WEEKS!
mircea_popescu: you can throw a rock in a la hotel and hit a waitress that's more of an "international drug market"
mircea_popescu: if i were a judge i'd throw the book at this so-called "government" so help me. lie to me do one month in the can, no questions asked. so if it takes fifty da's it'll take fifty da's.
mircea_popescu: given the current state of the rot i'd prolly convict 2/3 "law enforcement" 1/3 private citizens.
shinohai: mircea_popescu will make America great again
mircea_popescu: no he won't.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather teach sheep torah.
shinohai: lel
shinohai found the commenter's name, SAM, to be suspect: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-13#1669434☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-13 03:01 BingoBoingo: Questions http://qntra.net/2017/06/ethereum-blocks-way-the-fuck-too-big-smart-contract-ddosing-own-initial-coin-offering-to-blame/#comment-101819
mircea_popescu: ya think ?
mod6: mornin'
mircea_popescu: heya
shinohai: Mornin mod6 ... anything cool brewing in your lab?
mod6: Mornin' shinohai
mod6: peted sent his getpeerinfo vpatch to the ML. so that's out there.
mircea_popescu: o hey.
mod6: and I started working on ticket #36 for trb, possible move of the deps folder for trb
mod6: i got it to work lastnight, but im not satisfied with it yet.
shinohai: That reminds me ....
shinohai: !~later tell pete_dushenski Tested your patch, built fine, running on the dev box as I write this.
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mod6: cool, thanks for the testing shinohai
shinohai: np, glad to help and love to see trb progressing and more peeps contributing.
mod6: indeed!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very funny that jew thing you dug out. literally, the ENTIRE argument is "hey, let us scam you, because that's what goverments do, and if the goyim see us scamming you they'll believe w r government".
mircea_popescu: how statists actually manage to live in their mental latrine is anyone's guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, is why i posted it
mircea_popescu: entertainment value well worth teh read.
asciilifeform: the altalena thing still , i'm told, smoulders, there are folx who have not forgotten the replacement of terrorist-republic-israel with usg-alt-israel
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform: ( hey adlai !! whaddayathink )
mircea_popescu: da fuck is some shithead 20something going to think.
asciilifeform: dunno, but he's marched under the colours, and asciilifeform has not, so automatically 'gotta ask'
mircea_popescu: nonsense.
mircea_popescu: might as well ask the kfc colonel his professional opinion re fort sumter.
shinohai: http://archive.is/cWlpR <<< By Gavin logic, moar ETH nodes = good while less BTC nodes = A OK
mircea_popescu: he's in feeder phase.
asciilifeform: wassat
mircea_popescu: the hanno boecks always work in the same cycle. feeder phase where they "seem reasonable" and chumpatron phase where they shed the half-hour-horizon idiots who bought it.
mircea_popescu: the ur-model of this is "modern" ourdemocracy currency. while they can falsify it, YOU can't. this means they can prop its value up for as long as it takes for idiot-you to buy into the theory that "usd is actually valuable", after which they can turn on the printing.
mircea_popescu: which is why "eth has market value". the entire market value of ethereum (all chains) is under a grand. but the lizards will keep buying it, for all the fiddy bux a week that costs, to prop up the pretense. if it catches, they got "millionz" and if not they're out five coffees for a dozen losers who were getting that coffee off social security anyway.
mircea_popescu: and this model ENTIRELY explains all of the "luminaries". werner koch worked the feeder-chumper cycle. stallman worked the feeder-chumper cycle. curtis yarvin worked the etcetera.
asciilifeform: where's the cut between 'worked cycle' and 'turned traitor' ?
asciilifeform: 'worked' seems to imply cynical fraud from t=0
mircea_popescu: cycle, definitionally, is multiple iterations.
mircea_popescu: gavin worked btc, got kicked out, is now working eth, etcetera.
asciilifeform: aah
mircea_popescu: the fiat word is "serial entrepreneur" or whatever.
asciilifeform: rms afaik is not a serial anything, had exactly 1 thing
mircea_popescu: and that was emacs ?
asciilifeform: lolno
mircea_popescu: well ?
mircea_popescu: 2 things.
asciilifeform: ( emacs pre-dates rms )
asciilifeform: hurd.
mircea_popescu: but he worked the cycle on emacs first.
mircea_popescu: then he worked it on software, and THEN he worked it on hardware.
mircea_popescu still can't forget the "i have a laptop that doesn't exist" bs.
mircea_popescu: "so where is it" "they stole it"
asciilifeform: not sure if that one can be pinned on rms per se -- he was already in his ambulatory mushroom phase at that point
mircea_popescu: get some crayons and color me shades of impressed.
shinohai: In other democracy news: http://archive.is/3wCQw
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other excavations, https://www.security.nl/posting/505769/Random+Bit+Generator+voor+zelfbouw >> 'Het ontwerp is volledig open source, het geleverde product is te verifiëren zodat je kunt zien dat er niets is toegevoegd of weggelaten, de randomization is wiskundig verifieerbaar. Er zijn drivers voor eigenlijk alle gangbare operating systems, zelfs voor OpenBSD, en dat voor een prijs van USD 40. Die onderbouwing zie ik n
asciilifeform: iet bij nosuchlabs. En nee, er is totaal geen sprake van meer spreekwoordelijk alufolie, integendeel. Geen drivers, aansluiting via een niet meer aanwezig medium (seriele poort), beperkte hoeveelheid random data en ga zo maar door.'
asciilifeform: ^ d00d pushing 'onerng' over FUCKGOATS, with argument that the former 'is open source, mathematically verifiable, ...drivers for all current os, even openbsd...' while the latter 'no drivers, connection using obsolete medium - serial port, limited entropy'
mircea_popescu: ...
mircea_popescu: isn't "onerng" the thing captain bullshit was pushing in that dumb chan ?
asciilifeform: one of'em yes
mircea_popescu: how did that quote abnout a confederacy of dounces go
asciilifeform: nfi
asciilifeform: linked mainly for the 'drivers' lul
mircea_popescu: "you can always recognize a fuckgoats by that sure sign, that all the dounces in the county are arrayed in a confederacy against it."
asciilifeform: aah yes.
mircea_popescu: and here i sat and thought naively that open source is all about "hey, i perceive the need for these so called drivers, item dun has them, I WILL MAKE MYSELF"
asciilifeform: gotta luvvv all the nitwits who think that pc has any business being able to talk TO an rng box
mircea_popescu: isn't THAT what the douche was supposed to publish on his stupid blog ?
asciilifeform: ( which is what connecting via non-unidirectional interface entails )
mircea_popescu: but no, instead every two bit twentysomething shithead importantly sits on an imagined throne and JUDGES THE WORLD!!11
mircea_popescu: rather than try and fix it, and in the process learn a thing or two about just how utterly fucktarded they are.
mircea_popescu: go, write fg drivers. what
mircea_popescu: thje everloving fuck will they do ?
asciilifeform: better still, to read the docs and think for 30sec and realize that THING USES NO DRIVER
mircea_popescu: no but all the peripheral boxes he ever saw had the bullet point there.
mircea_popescu: anywya, maybe we can talk diana_coman into borrowing us a manager class.
mircea_popescu: better than driver.
asciilifeform: wassat
mircea_popescu: which one
asciilifeform: managerclass
mircea_popescu: i have no fucking idea.
asciilifeform: aaah a burbulator
mircea_popescu: but everything has a bunch of them so
asciilifeform: ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-19#1485129 )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-06-19 05:35 asciilifeform: the next morning, commander tours the base, says to sergeant: 'everything seems ok, but what is this nonsense, they showed me the scrapyard and your men threw out a perfectly fine burbulator!!!'
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> might as well ask the kfc colonel his professional opinion re fort sumter. << "Lincoln was a war criminal" is the response I got
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc we had a thread even here where somebody whined that FG doesn't work as a 'totem' where you 'plug in and forget and it just becomes your /dev/random' and that it has to be actively ~used~
mircea_popescu: it's still not clear to me dumping it into the pool is a bad move.
mircea_popescu: seeing how the alternative is koch-hashes.
asciilifeform: it isn't that it is necessarily bad move
mircea_popescu: i suppose "driver" in context might mean a kernel patch to feed /random from fg
asciilifeform: but that the ~correct~ move is proggy that takes a /dev/foo1,/dev/foo2... as command line params and eats rng from ~there~
mircea_popescu: yes but they already got their userland, and it's a) shit and b) unrecompilable.
asciilifeform: 'need to know principle', if you will -- kernel has no business having centralized 'and these here are rngs'
asciilifeform: not to mention a proggy that eats rng oughta be periodically tested using ~known~ bits
asciilifeform: to see if the expected output results
asciilifeform: ( known-and-previously-untried )
mircea_popescu: yes. the idea being that your methiod while correct requires fixing all the shit programs. which ain't gonan happen. nor can it.
mircea_popescu: whereas just feeding it into the kernel pool might help to some degree and is actually feasible.
asciilifeform: cat /dev/yourfg > /dev/random &
mircea_popescu: basically it's the eternal culture shock. "i protest that this tmsr item is ideologically incompatible with the shitempire i inhabit" "blow it out your ass" "TERRORISM!"
asciilifeform: ( incidentally astute students of FUCKGOATSology will notice that the principle is applied INSIDE the device as well - FG has nfi what is plugged into rng jacks, actual analogue rng boards or tester jig )
asciilifeform: relatedly, at one point i considered a FG add-on that'd turn it into a ps/2 'keyboard' eternally pissing out, e.g., d0bc05f466024f14... which, e.g., xxd will happily eat & turn into binariola
shinohai: Ledger branching out to pgptronics: https://github.com/LedgerHQ/blue-app-openpgp-card
asciilifeform: keyboardization gives even greater 'nonspecificity of diddling', at the cost of 'can't have it plugged in 24/7, must use in bursts' ( as most os don't work with >1 kbd correctly )
asciilifeform: shinohai: add to the loooong list of 'tardanos'
shinohai: Quite
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the koch episode was actually illustrative of the futility of 'just fix /dev/random'. it'd have done ~zero~ against the koch rng poisoning thing.
asciilifeform: if you can't recompile ( or better still, use sane proggy ) you're fucked, there is no pill.
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: there's a reason the "security.nl" maggots say what they say.
mircea_popescu: "use these things thatr won't do anything"
mircea_popescu: "they're...easier!"
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ^ d00d pushing 'onerng' over FUCKGOATS, with argument that the former 'is open source, mathematically verifiable, ...drivers for all current os, even openbsd...' while the latter 'no drivers, connection using obsolete medium - serial port, limited entropy' << limited entropy?! herp.
mod6: these cows just don't care they they have an NSA fist in their asses. never did, never will.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7BD81DECC6EBEB3D6B64A8BB042AF3DEBE41F28F7BC5DD0CC2768C84A5297453 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1568...0739 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.156.19.254 (ssh-rsa key from 94.156.19.254 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (nagios2.telecablenet.com. BG 13)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7BD81DECC6EBEB3D6B64A8BB042AF3DEBE41F28F7BC5DD0CC2768C84A5297453 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1792...6587 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.156.19.254 (ssh-rsa key from 94.156.19.254 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (nagios2.telecablenet.com. BG 13)
mod6: "m00" "oh your butt hurts" "m00!" "maybe get that fist out of your ass..." "n000!"
asciilifeform: mod6: elementarily, 'limited entropy', 'respectable mainstream' turd can put out whatever it wants, GB/s, of prng
asciilifeform: 'whitening'
asciilifeform: ( why to bother with hardware, if resorting to prng , remains a mystery )
mod6: m0001
asciilifeform: whereas harvesting actual entropy is painful, esp. if you want an engineering margin ( e.g. 2x in FG )
asciilifeform: 2x temporal, that is. on top of 4x spatial.
asciilifeform: ( each analogue board has 2 independent subunits, see schematic )
asciilifeform: mod6: you will notice that no fg hits >8kB/s at room temp, while the theoretical max is 14.4kB
mod6: sure.
asciilifeform: there simply ain't moar to be had ( safely, that is -- you can use a faster-slewing op amp, in this collection scheme, but you will be harvesting power supply artifacts, 'voice of america', switching transients.. )
asciilifeform: all 'electric' schemes for trng have the basic problem of 'breathing own fumes'.
asciilifeform: von neumann's debias algo, and xor fold, are the two legit methods of dealing with this, but they have considerable cost ( each application of either , burns away 50% of incoming bits )
mod6: then that's what it is.
mod6: fuck 'em
asciilifeform: ( part of the appeal of 'atomic' trng is that the 'fumes' concern evaporates. )
asciilifeform: !$ssh 94.156.19.254
scriba: ssh banner of 94.156.19.254 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8ubuntu1
asciilifeform: aw
mod6: one of these times you're gonna pop it
asciilifeform: which it
mod6: what does that ssh thing do?
asciilifeform: mod6: spits out the banner that Framedragger forgot to put in the original conversions
mod6: oh
mod6: ok
mircea_popescu: so how's tricks in mod6 castle
mod6: sweet
mircea_popescu: glad to hear
mod6: gathering some things up in eulora.
mod6: having fun with that.
mircea_popescu: ah i saw lel. how long has it been for you, 2 years now ?
mod6: na, not quite that long. it ~has~ been at least since xmas or so since I popped in last tho.
mod6: this whole year has been nuts. i feel like im constantly behind. all that stuff with my mom just sucked up so much time.
mircea_popescu: ah
mircea_popescu: yeah can rtake it out of one
mod6: ya for sure
jurov: asciilifeform: sorry to be shitharbinger, just writing to /dev/random is not enough https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/141197/why-writing-to-dev-random-does-not-make-parallel-reading-from-dev-random-faste
jurov: it needs "yes i am sure" ioctl
asciilifeform: lol!
mircea_popescu: ah that's right isn't it
asciilifeform: motherfucking kochs.
mircea_popescu: heh
BingoBoingo: Best Korea get it's own huffing currency siphon http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/06/13/dennis-rodman-returns-north-korea/
mircea_popescu: it's !??!?!?!
BingoBoingo: FUCK, no way to fix in lawg
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: you gotta sit and meditate, it's getting ridoinculous
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2700.35, vol: 17108.73242076 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2663.11, vol: 6150.18051 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2694.2, vol: 24703.98366288 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2827.998971, vol: 10709.68020000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2704.2, vol: 7649.42853527 | Volume-weighted last average: 2715.66268137
asciilifeform: in other 3-years-and-continuing lulz, https://archive.is/kGc6w >> '...I've been trying to build these style tools for around 10 years, on and off, and they have never built correctly for these targets and any attempt to put in a bug report about it is a waste of time as someone comes along states it works and closes it, even though it doesn't.'
mircea_popescu: open sores.
asciilifeform: it will have to be confiscated from the monkeys, like trb was.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform has stabbed on and off at the problem, for a very long time.
mircea_popescu: by now, pretty much foregone conclusion. if we need it, they can't have it.
asciilifeform: end result is to be a vaguely msdos-like thing that understands how to configure x64 page table, put/get blocks of disk, and speak over rs232 port. and on top of this, a self-building gnat.
asciilifeform: but this is yet far.
mircea_popescu: in general, seems dos model is the winner. i dunno wtf unix is even supposed to be, honestly.
asciilifeform: single-tasking, grim wartime thing.
mircea_popescu: on preponderence of evidence seems rather 1950s equivalent of historical "craftsman secrets" bs.
asciilifeform: nothing like what asciilifeform wanted, decade ago, to spend his life making.
mircea_popescu: ie, low level labour strife, "how to make capitalist incapable of using his own capital goods without feeding us"
asciilifeform: but it will have to be made.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how did yo9u want to spend life decade ago ?
asciilifeform: lispm
mircea_popescu: ah. yea.
mircea_popescu: there's no absolute reason most of the dos thing can;t actually be lisp
asciilifeform: inadequate iron.
mircea_popescu: yes, but so far i am rather impressed with the demonstrated interop.
asciilifeform: which interop
asciilifeform: ah
mircea_popescu: say between whatever phf runs log on and the log itself ; or whatever ben_vulpes runs the bot on and so forth
mircea_popescu: they didn't turn into very sad shriveled raisins of pain for trying.
asciilifeform: problem is that a language with nonhardrealtime gc is unsuitable for cryptography.
asciilifeform: 0 way to guarantee constant-time-anything
asciilifeform: or to police branch-on-secrets
mircea_popescu: this is shapinbg up to be the achile's heel for lisp huh
asciilifeform: on c-machine -- yes.
asciilifeform: sorta why asciilifeform has written 0 lisp for 3+ yrs
asciilifeform: well, ~0
asciilifeform: at any rate at this point imho it is obvious that the confiscation of computing from the enemy cannot proceed on linux.
mircea_popescu: i am persuaded.
asciilifeform: or bsd.
mircea_popescu: unixanything.
asciilifeform: aaaha.
mircea_popescu: the reasons are plurious, there's not jhust this line
mircea_popescu: there's also the "bunch of retards who think themselves competent and will wish to '''help'''" as per older threads re flies.
mircea_popescu: and others.
asciilifeform: the reasons, at this point, are not a mega-secret to anyone here.
asciilifeform: for the 'helpers' -- the sharp end of a trench shovel.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> unixanything. << ditto
asciilifeform: re os : i've observed before , that the only peripheral that unconditionally ~must~ work, is rs232 port.
asciilifeform: everything else, even disk, is optional frill.
mircea_popescu: the model is fundamentally broken. you do not actually want a multi-user machine, ever, period.
mod6: yeah. back to dos-like sys
asciilifeform: it is possible to accomplish useful work on a box where only cpu, memory, and serial ports, work.
mircea_popescu: it's a stupid thing, like a multi-driver-wheel bus.
mod6: haha
mircea_popescu: "instead of making ten cars we made this bus with ten driver seats. talk it out among yourselves. there's bulletproof glass in some parts."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd even not be wholly ludicrous to have 1 doslike thing per cpu core, and a standardized means whereby master (of which there is to be ONE) can drive the slaves
asciilifeform: but beyond this - nothing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in an ideal world we just hijack intel management engine to do that job.
asciilifeform: no need for any such thing, conventional pc arch is quite enough.
mircea_popescu: no need maybe, but it's what you get lel
asciilifeform: ( to carry on N independent instruction streams )
asciilifeform: the other bit, is that we are picturing a box without a nic. ( it may come equipped with one, but it dun get plugged in )
mircea_popescu: no, no, nick over port!
asciilifeform: strictly serial. if you want to speak via a nic, that goes on 2nd box
mircea_popescu: the chineze had it.
asciilifeform: the 'nic can dma, haha' thing evaporates.
asciilifeform: nic sits on 2nd box, and if it gets 'magic packet', the most that enemy gains is the contents of the buffer kept there.
asciilifeform: at any rate this is a pretty obvious scheme.
asciilifeform: merely cumbersome. but if contemplating a return to 'msdos with bigger addr space', it is also fitting to discuss other cumbersomes.
asciilifeform: ( and any such return entails a 'from whence the drivers', for which the magic pill is... we haven't any. rs232, motherfuckers. )
mircea_popescu: the experience with making / using the fg turns out most useful, really.
mircea_popescu: both in terms of exposing the idiocy of the enemy in very specific terms, and in terms of providing solutions to teh problems.
mircea_popescu: whaack stop fucking around join/parting and nicking already.
asciilifeform: mauser first, questions later!111
mircea_popescu: fucking lazy to op self.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: incidentally, a dick^H^Hsk-less pc makes for another interesting feature, a known-starting-state.
asciilifeform: ( i had a pogo going like this for a while )
asciilifeform: it asks 'gimme a running state plox' via the talking port on warmup. and then runs.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. disk can be a tele-operated item in exactly same way as nic. )
asciilifeform: >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/lBzDS/?raw=true << from the archives of asciilifeform : simple c example of The Only Driver
asciilifeform: ( worx on all known pc chipsets, incl. mircea_popescu's 286. )
asciilifeform: tested on, e.g., 'pcengines apu1'
asciilifeform: a number of other opterons also.
asciilifeform: ancient intel boxes from scrapyard.
asciilifeform: and many, many boat anchors.
asciilifeform: ^ n00bs : don't try to build an' run on a unix, it won't wurk.
ben_vulpes: this promises to be fun
ben_vulpes: but proposed is not to exhume dos but run an ada os thinger?
mircea_popescu: historical dos is only a very general design model
mircea_popescu: to illustrate teh point
ben_vulpes nods
mircea_popescu is not very keen for eg on "tsr" insta-kerne-patch-from-userland bs
asciilifeform: rom kernel.
asciilifeform: ( nao if only one could actually execute anything at all from rom on modern x86 !! )
asciilifeform: but can still write ~as if for~ rom.